Steve/Stephen: I am planning to archive all conversations .This is pretty
simple with text, but when things move into real-time moving images from which
to understand the world, this takes a little more storage.
No one's yet actually trying to develop movie AI/AGI - an intelligence that
2008/5/28 Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
No one's yet actually trying to develop movie AI/AGI - an intelligence
that can live in and/or respond to a continuous movie[s] of the world, are
they? Ben's system, from the v. little I saw, gestures at this, but falls
short.
I'm doing stuff with
Bob: I'm doing stuff with robotics which is mostly about processing
sequences of images (I call the offline playbacks used for parameter
optimisation dream sequences), although probably what I'm doing
doesn't qualify as AGI in a strict sense - it's more reminiscent of
the Grand/Urban Challenge
2008/5/28 Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Sounds interesting. Can you give us a little more detail (or link). What
kind of robot, where? Doing what? Watching what movie? And how does it dream
- optimise/correct actions?
Link:
http://code.google.com/p/sentience/
A picture of the robot:
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Mark Waser wrote:
Geez. What the heck is wrong with you people and your seriously bogus
stats?
Try a real recognized neutral tracking service like Netcraft
(http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html)
Does anyone believe that they are biased
PROTECTED]@@#$*%*
Microsoft
From: Mark Waser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:20 AM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
However, I'll quote just one simple stat:
About 90% of the Internet relies on Unix operating systems running
Apache
Mark Waser:
Does anybody have any interest in and/or willingness to program in a
different environment?
I haven't decided to what extent I'll participate in OpenCog myself yet. For
me, it depends more on whether the capabilities of the system seem worth
exploring, which in turn depends as
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Mark Waser wrote:
Geez. What the heck is wrong with you people and your seriously bogus
stats?
Try a real recognized neutral tracking service like Netcraft
(http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html)
Does
On May 27, 2008, at 7:00 AM, BillK wrote:
As I understand it, Netcraft's results are based on web sites, or more
precisely, hostnames, rather than actual web servers. This introduces
a bias because some servers run a large number of low-volume (or zero
volume) web sites.
Of course, many
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Mark Waser wrote:
No. You are not correct. Read their methodology
(http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/faq.html?mondir=/200804domdir=domain=)
which I have copied and pasted below
We visit what we consider well-known sites. In our case, we define a
is being run will validate his concerns.
I wonder if we should start a pool on the documentation arrival date . . .
. :-)
- Original Message -
From: Derek Zahn
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:35 AM
Subject: **SPAM** RE: [agi] More Info Please
Crest Ave.
Austin, Texas, USA 78704
512.791.7860
- Original Message
From: Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:23:37 PM
Subject: Merging threads was Re: Code generation was Re: [agi] More Info Please
Steve,
On 5/26/08, Stephen Reed
Derek, you make an excellent point about the OpenCog project appearing too
open-ended and unfocused. Ben is writing documentation for a specific
cognitive architecture, OpenCog Prime, that is intended to address these
concerns. The first iteration of OpenCog Prime is targeted for July and will
be
I guess that your opinion wins.
If you're interested, I certainly am.
- Original Message -
From: David Hart
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:27 PM
Subject: **SPAM** Re: [agi] More Info Please
Derek, you make an excellent point about the OpenCog
With all this lovely chit-chat about .NET, I have been wondering if anyone
was entertaining the possibility of doing a port of NARS from Java to C#.
Not that I have seriously considered working myself on it, just that before
someone would undertake such an effort it would be beneficial to share
Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:23:37 PM
Subject: Merging threads was Re: Code generation was Re: [agi] More Info
Please
Steve,
On 5/26/08, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But I have a perhaps more troublesome issue in that abusive
On May 26, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Mark Waser wrote:
That you have less than a two-to-one market share and it's dwindling?
I have ~100% market share. Not sure how it is two-to-one or
dwindling, though I suppose it has nowhere to go but down.
That technically .Net has blown past you and the
I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by sane languages . . . .
- Original Message -
From: Lukasz Stafiniak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Mark Waser
mark,
What I'd rather do instead is see if we can get a .NET parallel track
started over the next few months, see if we can get everything ported, and
see the relative productivity between the two paths. That would provide a
provably true answer to the debate.
Well, it's an open-source
://texai.org
3008 Oak Crest Ave.
Austin, Texas, USA 78704
512.791.7860
- Original Message
From: Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 7:48:29 AM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED
2008/5/26 J. Andrew Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Europe specifically excludes .NET as a development target for similar
pragmatic reasons. And developing .NET is going to suck on a non-Windows
workstation, eliminating one of the major advantages you tout. To be honest,
I do not know of anyone that
ported a large project from one environment/language to
another (or even one major software rev to another)?
- Original Message -
From: Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
That list wasn't about
Where do you live, if you do not mind me asking? The preference for
server environments is very much a local phenomenon. Using California as
an example, in Los Angeles there is a strong preference for Windows
systems, but in Silicon Valley you will find that Unix is pervasive.
I live in
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And what is the value proposition of Java over any other language? It has
no unique features. It's development is lagging. It's developers are
defecting (again, look at the statistics). It's fragmenting just like Unix
so
: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And what is the value proposition of Java over any other language? It
has
no unique features. It's development is lagging. It's developers are
defecting
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 8:33 PM, J. Andrew Rogers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Replying to myself,
I'll let Mark have the last word since, after all, it is *his* project and
not mine. :-)
I assume that last sentence was sarcastic ;-)
Of course, while Mark is a valued participant in OpenCog, it's
.
- Original Message -
From: Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And what is the value proposition of Java over any other language
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What I'd rather do instead is see if we can get a .NET parallel track
started over the next few months, see if we can get everything ported, and
see the relative productivity between the two paths. That would provide a
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Regarding the best language for AGI development, most here know that I'm
using Java in Texai. For skill acquisition, my strategy is to have Texai
acquire a skill by composing a Java program to perform the learned skill. I
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
Mark,
For OpenCog we had to make a definite choice and we made one. Sorry
you don't agree w/ it.
I agree that you had to make a choice and made the one that seemed right
to
various reason. The above
J. Andrew Rogers said:
For open source projects, ideal environments play
second fiddle to broad language support. Painless portability is the
reason C is often selected over C++ for open source projects --
universality is that important.
J. Andrew Rogers
What is your approach on ensuring AGI safety/Friendliness on this project?
---
agi
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Hi Peter, Ben, and Panu
What is your approach on ensuring AGI safety/Friendliness on this project?
I would immediately gather reason to assert that if there's money in AGI,
and money is made from such a project, it is bound to be one of a friendly
nature. That assertion of course makes for a
My own view is that our state of knowledge about AGI is far too weak
for us to make detailed
plans about how to **ensure** AGI safety, at this point
What we can do is conduct experiments designed to gather data about
AGI goal systems and
AGI dynamics, which can lead us to more robust AGI
2008/5/25 Nathan Cravens [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
yet AGI has
potentially dramatic concrete consequences in one direction or another.
Money will only be made from this in the short run, and if not, for those
with a capacity to muster life, misery will prevail, unless you are the last
one or ones
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My own view is that our state of knowledge about AGI is far too weak
for us to make detailed
plans about how to **ensure** AGI safety, at this point
I disagree strenuously. If our arguments will apply to *all*
I disagree strenuously. If our arguments will apply to *all* intelligences
(/intelligent architectures) -- like Omohundro attempts to do -- instead of
just certain AGI subsets, then I believe that our lack of knowledge about
particular subsets is irrelevant.
yes, but I don't think these
Please, if you're going to argue something --
please take the time to argue it and don't pretend that you can't magically
solve it all with your guesses (I mean, intuition).
time for mailing list posts is scarce for me these days, so sometimes I post
a conclusion w/out the supporting arguments
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Certainly there are plenty of folks with equal software engineering experience
to you, advocating the Linux/C++ route (taken in the current OpenCog version)
rather than the .Net/C# route that I believe you advocate...
No,
-
From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
One of the things that I've been tempted to argue for a while is an entirely
alternate underlying software architecture for OpenCog -- people can then
develop
.
So, please, back up your claim. Find some experts who are up-to-date to
explain why Linux/C++ is better.
- Original Message - From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
One of the things
-
From: Nathan Cravens
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: **SPAM** Re: [agi] More Info Please
Intuition is not science. Intuition is just hardened opinion.
Mark, without intuition the development of science would grind to a halt.
Logic
why Linux/C++ is better.
- Original Message -
From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
One of the things that I've been tempted to argue for a while is an
entirely
alternate underlying software
Continuing on from a mistaken send . . .
I'm aware .Net has evolved a lot in recent years, but so has the C++
world, especially the Boost libraries which are extremely powerful.
Boost is not particularly powerful. Using Boost involves a *lot* of work
because the interfaces are not
Mark,
For OpenCog we had to make a definite choice and we made one. Sorry
you don't agree w/ it.
I agree that you had to make a choice and made the one that seemed right to
various reason. The above comment is rude and snarky however --
particularly since it seems to come *because* you
Mark. Intuition is a form of vague perception, a kind of logic in the
making. Like a grain of sand with pearl potential.
AGI has a lot of power to cure the society of scarcity situation.
So it's up to us to roll out the beneficial apps before others roll
out the nasty ones.
This is not a
Some not-quite-random observations that hopefully injects some
moderation:
- There are a number of good arguments for using C over C++, not the
least of which is that it is dead simple to implement very efficient C
bindings into much friendlier languages that hide the fact that it is
Peter has some technical info on his overall (adaptive neural net)
based approach to AI, on his company website, which is based on a
paper he wrote in the AGI volume Cassio and I edited for Springer
(written 2002, published 2006).
However, he has kept his specific commercial product direction
, 2008 2:56 PM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [agi] More Info Please
Peter has some technical info on his overall (adaptive neural net) based
approach to AI, on his company website, which is based on a paper he wrote
in the AGI volume Cassio and I edited for Springer (written 2002, published
Peter Voss wrote:
Thanks, Ben.
The technical details of our design and business plan details are indeed
confidential. All I can really say publicly is that we are confident that we
have pretty direct path to high-level AGI from where we are, and that we
have an extremely viable business plan to
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