to the possibility
of more outages like this.
Up to you!
- omd
Apparently not. I was worried because I did some upgrades recently and there
haven’t been any messages in several days.
> On Dec 10, 2022, at 10:24 PM, omd wrote:
>
> Did I break the lists again?
From the ‘why don’t you just leave it alone’ department:
On 12/14, I upgraded some stuff on the server that hosts the lists, which I
noted at the time caused a list outage for a few hours.
On 12/31 (yesterday) I was alerted on Discord that the web interface for the
lists was broken, which
Test, sorry for the spam. The list was down for about 7 hours today because I
messed something up while upgrading the server to be fully 64-bit. Sorry.
(i386 in 2020? Absurd!)
Update: In the last week-and-change there haven’t been any crashes, so
switching node to 64-bit might have done the trick.
From 10/17 to 10/19, the list VM's SMTP server experienced repeated, periodic
segfaults. This is despite the fact that the server software in question,
Haraka, is written for Node.js (a memory safe environment) with no native
extensions. The segfaults would sometimes cause Mailman’s outgoing
And again.
> On Oct 18, 2020, at 5:38 PM, omd wrote:
>
> I intend, without objection, to determine whether the list is working again.
I intend, without objection, to determine whether the list is working again.
at 2:53 PM, AgoraBot via agora-discussion
wrote:
> [Discord transcript]
What is this bot? If it could be convinced to post transcripts on a
regular basis, that would be quite a neat archival mechanism.
- Totally Not Out of the Loop
at 11:52 AM, nix via agora-business wrote:
> Without objection, by apathy, I intend to win.
This makes it sound like you previously intended, without objection, to
intend to win, and now are following through with it…
at 11:49 AM, Nathan S via agora-business
wrote:
> Below, contained within the "{}", or curly braces, is the contract
> entitled The Supertask Experiment Redux.
You haven’t exactly stated that you agree to this contract, though I
suppose claiming it exists and has you as a party could be
The lists were down for about four hours total. The VPS hosting the lists
was forcibly shut off due to non-payment (I missed the email with the
invoice). I happened to be actively checking my emails at the time, so I
noticed and paid within half an hour, but then the VPS failed to start back
at 10:42 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business
wrote:
{
Enact a Rule with the following text:
England is eliminated as a contestant. Austria, Italy, and Russia
hereby win the game.
}
When I first saw this I thought England itself had proposed it as a sort of
Updated https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/. Sorry for the
delay.
maps,
and have done so for this turn:
https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/
at 9:40 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion
wrote:
Yes, it couldn't retreat to a province occupied by a dislodging unit or
a unit that it couldn't have moved to.
And here I was planning to submit orders to do so, and argue tomorrow that
they should be legal according
at 10:50 AM, Edward Murphy via agora-business
wrote:
I intend, without objection, to flip the interest of Coopor to (its
current value + 'Justice').
I intend, without objection, to flip the interest of Coopor to (its
current value + 'Efficiency').
I intend, without objection, to flip the
Updated https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/.
Updated https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/.
at 11:36 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
wrote:
Hey all,
I just fixed ruleset-viewer.gaelan.me, which appears to have gotten
broken by some reorganization of the ruleset repo. It looks like it might
be intermittently running into some GitHub API bug (possibly because
you're not
at 5:14 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
wrote:
Alright, people seem to have started to get annoyed, so I believe
continuing this experiment would violate my sacred and eternal duty to
Treat Agora Right Good.
I found it quite entertaining, fwiw!
Updated https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/.
Updated https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/.
at 5:13 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-official
wrote:
It is now after 00:00 UTC on July 19, 2020, so the fifth negotiating
phase has ended and the fifth orders phase has begun. You may now submit
orders. Please submit orders if you haven't already.
A Bur - Pic
A Hol - Bel
A
at 5:58 PM, N. S. via agora-business wrote:
I make the following diplonomic proposal named eat the rich
Make the following rule 'after each build phase, the power with the most
units has one of their units randomly destroyed’
What if there’s a tie?
Updated:
https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/
Updated https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/.
in
the AgoraNomic organization.
Here it is:
https://agoranomic.org/omd-diplonomic-2020-maps/
Please let me know if there are any errors.
at 6:11 PM, N. S. via agora-discussion
wrote:
Can you make, like, a screenshot or something that i can actually see (i
play on a phone and a chromebook)
The SVG links should work in any browser even if the copies attached to the
email don’t. Do they not work for you?
at 12:41 AM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
wrote:
This seems unnecessary? Rule 15 says "Orders CAN be submitted during
the negotiations
period and can be changed at any time when orders could be submitted.”
Sigh, I seem to be having a lot of “learn to read” moments lately...
at 11:43 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business
wrote:
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:00 PM omd via agora-business
wrote:
CoE: The distribution message is inconsistent about who authored this
proposal. If it was validly distributed, AGAINST.
Denied. The message said: "Where the inform
at 11:30 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
wrote:
Damn it. I broke that one way, and then my fix broke it another way.
You are referring, I presume, to the fact that one doesn't need to
consent to create a promise?
Yeah.
At least I can't think of a situation where that's exploitable
at 11:26 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion
wrote:
On 2020-07-07 23:59, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote:
I have no idea if this works, but it might be useful for certain
applications. Experimentation!!!
I create the following contract called "Contracoli":
Cuddlebeam is the
at 11:06 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
wrote:
I think that having single-party contracts feels / is safer. You can
arbitrarily amend it without needing to rely on anyone else and nobody else
can join it which adds another layer of speculative protection.
I don’t think single-party
at 4:51 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion
wrote:
In short, you’re saying that a rule does not “operate in a way that is
clearly contrary to legislative intent or common sense” if it only does so
in conjunction with other rules.
To do otherwise is an extreme judicial intrusion into the
at 12:40 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-business
wrote:
So it does NOT meet the test in Rule 2626(1) on legislative intent (nor do
any of the other tests apply). It would be presumptuous, in this case, for
any judge or referee to overrule the legislature and find otherwise, when
every element of
at 8:33 PM, James Cook via agora-business
wrote:
An Ordinary Proposal has approval if the number of shares
owned by members voting FOR it is greater than the number of
Unsupportive players.
So is this a scam or just a mistake? :)
(Signed, a mere onlooker.)
at 5:21 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
wrote:
I'm not sure whether this is enough to have R1586 automatically transfer
switch karma to asset karma.
Fair point. I’ll change it to be more explicit before pending this (if I
ever get enough cards to pend anything, anyway :).
at 5:19 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
wrote:
An asset generally CAN be transferred (syn. given) by announcement
by its owner to another entity, subject to modification by its
backing document. A fixed asset is one defined as such by its
backing document, and CANNOT
Arguments:
at 12:43 AM, Becca Lee via agora-discussion
wrote:
I clearly meant that i transfer the cards nch had, "those cards" into
products in 4 sets of 4. obviously i did not mean that 18 is 4x4.
Your rephrased version is still self-contradictory to my ears. You didn’t
say that you
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:45 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
> agora-discussion wrote:
>
> On 6/26/20 11:50 PM, omd via agora-discussion wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 5:39 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
>> agora-business wrote:
>>> Her
> On Jun 30, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 2:09 PM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm working on a proposal to deal with hidden actions (such a G.'s burried
>> vote). It'll also handle cases where the identity
> On Jun 30, 2020, at 9:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business
> wrote:
>
> I CFJ "Aris MAY Call Destruction Down Upon the contract Amusing Test Case.”
Arguments: The amusement switch is not a real switch, anyway, because it is not
"a property that the rules define as a switch”. It’s
> On Jun 28, 2020, at 7:28 PM, nch via agora-business
> wrote:
> - If it refers to the announcement, what does it mean for an announcement to
> be valid or invalid? Does an invalid announcement fail to have effect?
I’d argue that being valid or invalid is not an inherent property of the
> The Gamemaster CAN, by announcement, amend
> the gamestate by substituting one Contestant into all instances of
> another Contestant.
Extra space, and it’s pretty unclear what this means.
> the victor is (1) the last contestant remaining.
Extra space, and what’s the (1) doing there?
>
> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:11 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-business
> wrote:
>
> Don't know how everyone else is feeling about it but there is "Sponsored
> Proposals" to fix this which IMO is more elegant of a solution.
I'm okay with that too, although I’m not a big fan of having to wait, and
> On Jun 28, 2020, at 5:12 PM, nch via agora-discussion
> wrote:
>
> On 6/28/20 7:07 PM, omd via agora-business wrote:
>> Any player CAN join the contract by announcement; any party CAN leave the
>> contract by announcement. Any party CAN remove another par
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:32 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion
wrote:
> Can someone point me to the CFJ that says "authorized to" conditions are
> triggered by a CAN, but not a SHALL? (specifically that look at the term
> "authorize", I'm just curious how much that highly-used but undefined in
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 6:12 PM James Cook via agora-discussion
wrote:
> I've thought it would be interesting to play a Nomic that starts with
> just one simple rule with text like "This is a Nomic; figure the rest
> out.". Or just on rules written down explicitly.
Back in 2008, there was a
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:52 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
wrote:
> Explanation for those curious:
>
> The attachment was the EICAR antivirus test file, which everything is
> supposed to treat as malware, but is really just a 68-byte text file.
> Gmail wouldn't even send it from my own
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 5:39 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
agora-business wrote:
> Here is the list of proposals that I believe were pended in this way —
I think my proposal "Reset deadlines when resetting the economy" was
also pended.
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 12:12 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business
wrote:
> Free Tournaments require only 2 Agoran consent to initiate, while
> Emergency Regulations require 3, so the easiest option is a Free
> Tournament that automatically grants a certain person the win.
3 Agoran Consent is hard
> On Jun 24, 2020, at 6:55 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-business
> wrote:
>
>
> I object to any and all intents to declare apathy.
But does this adequately identify the intents being objected to?
(I think there might have been a CFJ along those lines in the past.)
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:33 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
wrote:
> But you're not PM...
For now.
On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 8:45 PM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
wrote:
> My understanding is that this is an intentional noncomformance on the part
> of mailman. As far as I can recall, it's not a bug. They just decided to
> ignore the standard. There are scripts that will transform it to
On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 7:23 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
wrote:
> I believe this fails because promises cannot possess promises
Why not?
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 3:24 PM Reuben Staley via agora-discussion
wrote:
> So here comes the poll part: what does everyone think about a chat client?
> IRC or Discord? Something open like Matrix? There are lots of options here.
> What's the call?
In addition to Matrix, open source options
The list was silently dropping messages for 3 hours or so. It should
be working now.
This started when I "fixed" the SMTP server's RCPT TO whitelist, which
had previously been nonfunctional, to only allow mail to specific
valid x...@agoranomic.org addresses. This was meant to block invalid
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:51 PM Edward Murphy via agora-discussion
wrote:
> > "Without objection" and "without objections" both sound okay to me. I
> > prefer the first, but I don't know why. Maybe I'm just used to it.
>
> The second makes it sound like there need to be objection/s/, plural, to
>
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:28 AM Alexis Hunt via agora-discussion
wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 at 12:18, sukil via agora-discussion
> wrote:
> > Yup, makes sense. Thanks! I believe this could be documented somewhere
> > just in case (maybe I missed it?).
>
> The mailing lists have historically
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
wrote:
> H. Distributor, or anyone else really, do you know what to make of
> this? The original message went to the list and shows in the archive.
Huh.
TL;DR: You can safely ignore the bounce; sorry for the spam; it
shouldn't
I've mostly finished switching the list's SMTP server from notqmail (a
qmail fork) to Haraka. Kind of a funny juxtaposition. Qmail is a C
program whose design was already traditionalist when it was written in
1995, and it hasn't changed much since then. These days it's used
mostly by hipsters.
On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 10:00 AM Edward Murphy via agora-discussion
wrote:
> I'm also generally catching up on ADoP recordkeeping. Little over half
> done, so a report should be coming up within the next hour or two.
Welcome back :)
On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 1:11 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
wrote:
> FYI, for anyone in need of a more up-to-date ruleset, my online ruleset
> viewer (https://agora-ruleset.gaelan.me) is based on the Rulekeepor’s GitHub
> repository, so it may be (and is, at the moment) more up to date
On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 5:27 AM Tanner Swett via agora-discussion
wrote:
>
> On Sat, Feb 1, 2020, 19:41 omd via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > A rule may state or imply that 'X is treated as if it
> > were Y', but
On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 6:01 PM comex wrote:
> Now testing if Haraka can deliver to everyone.
...except that didn't actually use Haraka because I sent from the
wrong address. This time for real.
On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 8:17 AM James Cook via agora-discussion
wrote:
> This is a counter-proto to Alexis's "Ratification by Legal Fiction", in
> the sense that I think it also fixes the problem of ratification
> failing due to minimal gamestate changes being ambiguous. It is a more
> radical
On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 3:10 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business
wrote:
> I agree with the caller that the "minimal change" caused by ratification
> does not insert events to cancel out the changes it just made. Instead,
> the ratification simply fails to adjust the gamestate except at the
>
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:25 PM Tanner Swett via agora-discussion
wrote:
> Would this ordinance have any "fighting chance" against the United
> States Constitution? One may say that yes, it would. After all, the
> Constitution is part of United States law, and the ordinance is also
> part of
On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 11:32 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion
wrote:
> Drat kinda boring:
> https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3805
The word wrapping broke the script.
On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:18 AM Alexis Hunt via agora-discussion
wrote:
> A fact is either a natural fact or a legal fact. A natural fact is a
> fact which is extrinsic to Agoran law, such as whether a message
> expresses a particular intent, or whether or not an entity is an
> organism. A legal
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 5:52 PM Alexis Hunt via agora-business
wrote:
> [Note that the existing "more than one option" text is basically
> tautologically true and practically useless anyway. PRESENT is an option,
> so only a decision with no other options would only have one. And even if
> we
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 1:45 PM Alexis Hunt via agora-business
wrote:
> Enact a new power-1 rule entitled "Default Mechanisms" reading as follows:
I feel like this makes more sense in a high-power rule so it doesn't
break with secured actions.
The broad wording also makes me very nervous about
On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 9:07 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
wrote:
> Personally, I’m vaguely of the opinion that we should switch to they/them
> instead of Spivak in general. Our use of Spivak now feels like using Betamax
> in 1990—sure, it was probably better, but the other one won and
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 11:36 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion
wrote:
> I found a random old mbox in a personal archive a while back, that had
> Agoran emails from Jun - Aug 2001 (probably from a temporary filter
> setup, everything around that is lost). It was mostly ephemera but
> just
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 7:47 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business
wrote:
> I earn 5 coins for assessing a proposal.
You can't, because P8295 made it so the ADoP has to do this. (And is
also broken, so nobody can do it.)
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 4:07 PM Alexis Hunt via agora-discussion
wrote:
> The list is what sends out the final messages, not your provider.
The list is currently configured to append the list address to
Reply-To rather than overwriting it; I could change this. Looking at
the archives, it seems
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:47 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
wrote:
> Couldn't someone just zip the files and put them in a public GitHub
> repo? If we really cared, the zip files could be encrypted and the
> password could be put in the README, since I think most of the major
> operating
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 7:29 AM Matthew Berlin via agora-discussion
wrote:
> A custom Agora blockchain for the ruleset and BUS actions? I'd
> certainly be up for running a node...and could help with dev,
I mean, Git is a blockchain. :)
On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:12 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
wrote:
> Speaking of which, last I checked, the link (at the top of the mailman
> archive) to download the full archive is broken.
Fixed. Seems like a Mailman bug introduced in this commit [1], which
nobody has noticed in over
On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 2:48 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion
wrote:
> So this judgement actually extends the concept of physical reality quite a
> bit, by saying "even though no rule outright forbids this, we're still
> saying it's R106-prohibited due to our (unwritten) precedents about
On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 8:46 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business
wrote:
> Create a Power=2 Rule, "Sacrifice", with the following text:
>
> The Shogun CAN sacrifice eir honour by publishing a valid Notice
> of Honour that decreases eir own honour by one, while in the
> same message
On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 10:36 PM Alexis Hunt via agora-discussion
wrote:
> > another ribbon". Can you suggest any other interpretation that the
> > author of the rule could plausibly have intended?
> >
>
> The intent of the rules is excluded entirely from the list of
> considerations in Rule 217.
On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 8:36 PM Alexis Hunt via agora-discussion
wrote:
> I would like to ask for arguments for an issue completely unaddressed in
> arguments: How does Rule 2602's use of a continuously-evaluated condition,
> as in Rule 2350 and part of Rule 103, affect the operation of the
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 9:37 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
wrote:
> Thanks for the very informative message! Out of curiosity, is there any
> reason From munging needs to be off for non-Gmail hosts, specifically
> Fastmail (who probably shows up in your log as messagingengine.com)? I
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 4:19 PM omd via agora-discussion
wrote:
> This should probably say “sent via” instead of “sent to”, to match the
> language in R478’s definition of “public message”. After all, the
> affected messages were all successfully “sent to” the list in a
> literal
On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 3:49 PM Edward Murphy via agora-business
wrote:
> Each of the following messages was effectively sent to the Public Forum
> on or about the Date: stamp shown in the archives.
This should probably say “sent via” instead of “sent to”, to match the
language in R478’s
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 2:05 PM James Cook wrote:
> Some data about trying to pinpoint the end of the mailing list outage.
> It looks like it's slightly different per list; I suppose this may
> reflect the dates omd updated the configurations. Dates below are
> according to
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 5:17 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
wrote:
> So, starting with a trivial case, I think it’s pretty clear that a player
> registering does not constitute a “change in the ruleset,” even though it
> affects the functioning of rules with regard to that person. My
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 8:40 PM Ørjan Johansen wrote:
> As I mentioned in my previous message, there's no reverse DNS on
> vps.qoid.us, which I could imagine some servers caring about.
Fixed. Sorry for not responding to your previous messages!
On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 7:37 PM James Cook wrote:
> I got this one.
Yeah... I was trying to send from an unsubscribed address, but I
didn't realize that when sending from an alias, Gmail would keep my
normal address in the envelope. Whoops.
Testing my new address filter.
On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 3:25 PM omd wrote:
>
> Will Gmail deliver a list message if it's sent from a different IP?
Will Gmail deliver a list message if it's sent from a different IP?
(...did this create a proposal? It was sent to business but doesn't
say "proposal".)
On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 9:46 PM Aris Merchant
wrote:
> Oh, also, well you’re at it, could you change “correctly identified” to
> “correctly and publicly identified” so that no one, like, hides the fact
> that they’ve identified it and then still claims they’ve invalidated the
> decision?
I just
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 5:48 PM James Cook wrote:
> Our H. Distributor tried in June to enable from-address-rewriting for
> messages with this problem, but I'm not sure it worked. See for
> example my 2019-07-01 message to the discussion list [0].
>
> omd, do you have any insight o
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:48 AM Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > The answer may depend on whether "response to a CoE" is an official duty
> > (R2143):
> >An official duty for an office is any duty that the Rules
> >specifically assign to that office's holder in particular
> >
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 3:43 PM Jason Cobb wrote:
>
> Actually, everyone should destroy their spaceship. Then clause 3 has
> equal standing for both.
>
> I destroy the spaceship in my possession.
Me too.
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 10:41 PM Rebecca wrote:
> you absolutely can! we are not the typo police.
Not that it matters, but it probably wasn't a typo.
CFJ 1885 (called 26 Jan 2008): "AGAINT" is a variant spelling of
"AGAINST", not a customary synonym for "FOR", despite its former
private
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:18 PM Jason Cobb wrote:
> I'll leave the CFJ up in hopes that it gets judged in a way that avoids
> this whole mess (although I'm not sure that there's enough space to
> bring in Rule 217 factors and get "best interests of the game").
Gratuitous:
I get from my
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