Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued david_oliva wrote:stereotyping.About the stereotyping: It is true that after the first episode many of you thought it was happening. I suppose I could have reacted like you did if I would be on your skin. I don't know. But perhaps one of our "errors" was to launch the game in episodes. We did like that because it was the only way to publish at least something and check the situation. Did anyone thought, that perhaps the idea was going a bit further, and that the other characters in the game will quite soon understand that there was not reason to talk about blindness? Did anyone thought, that perhaps Soren and Maria have had a love relationship before the accident, and that this was the reason why Soren wanted to touch for a moment her face? And we were not planning to talk about that until the forth episode!Here's the reason why it bothered me. So, as a sighted person, you will know that it is socially unacceptable to go up to someone and touch them. The face is really an intimate thing, it's not like a hand shake or a tap on the shoulder, something that has no meaning beyond what you can take from face value. So when Soren did that in the game, it basically is a way of saying that blind people have no concept of what is socially acceptable or not. You will come across blind people who have issues in social situations, they might behave oddly in one way or another that a sighted person would immediately see, but not all blind people are like this. So this stereotype is something we encounter quite often. I've been asked by strangers if I want to feel their face, not often, but it has happened. So out comes this game that is basically telling people hey blind people touch faces, blind people don't know any better, etc.Now, that being said, was it a knee jerk reaction, yes. The thing is though, it seems like anyone who is making audiogames outside the blind community has to involve characters as blind somehow. I think they do it to simplify fitting narrative with game mechanics, i.e. an audio environment. I think a lot of us are tired of seeing blind this and blind that and so forth all the time. It is just unoriginal at this point. Rather than forcing blindness to the forefront, if the character is blind, it could be expressed as just one of many of their traits rather than the dominant one. It would be like if someone took one of the aspects of your appearance, or a character trait and threw it out there all the time, but instead of just doing it to you, they did it to a whole group. Like, if you have a big nose or something, they'd be like David, the big nosed game developer. I think the najority of people are OK with their blindness, and while of course we realize it sucks from time to time, and we do face struggles that others do not, it's not like it's an overall negative thing. But no one seems to want to see past the blindness to the other things we can do. It's always Mark, the blind woodworker, Jennifer, the blind writer. George, the blind musician. Tina, the blind developer.So every time an audio game comes out that does this, it's kind of like sigh, this again?Anyway, not trying to beat a dead horse, just putting this out here to try to justify maybe a little bit why the reaction was so strong, even if in hindsight, it got blown out of proportion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/412181/#p412181 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued 38. What it says about David's and the rest of the team's character is that they understand they have issues that need to be addressed. whether than releasing an incomplete product, they are going to go back and figure out where the mistakes were made. I see a lot of people saying that what MTS needed to do are simple fixes, but it goes way deeper than that. It's not as simple as slapping on a coat of paint and calling it done.There are a lot of moving pieces behind the scenes to make this project work. I think people tend to forget that creating a game isn't just writing some code, yapping in to a microphone, taking some sounds and then calling it a day. there are business aspects to be managed, social media to be ran, voice actors and designers to be payed. This all adds up to a lot of work which takes both time and financial support. As someone who has sat down with David and chatted with him for quite a while, I know he has the interest of the community at heart. He has apologized several times for what happened, so why drag him through the mud?One of the problems with this community is that if a game doesn't meet people's perceived standards or a developer has made a mistake, the community tends to vilify them. I'm not saying that when someone creates an audio game we bend over backwards to treat them like royalty, but we need to help them by constructively acknowledging their mistakes, and suggesting a more positive course of action. I look forward to seeing what MTS releases int he future, and I applaud them for getting out there and really trying. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/412153/#p412153 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued That makes a lot of sense, David. I didn't think there were any restrictions put on you guys.About the episodes and the story evolving, I assumed that was going to happen either way honestly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411962/#p411962 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued David @57: You're welcome. But what part of me were you going to quote? You quoted me but there is nothing in the actual quote. Better still. No problem! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411985/#p411985 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued jack wrote:Jack: thanks a lot once more for supporting us, and because of taking part of your time to bring to the discussion things that we explained before. We really appreciate. We know we have a friend on you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411957/#p411957 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Some of you wrote: stereotyping.About the stereotyping: It is true that after the first episode many of you thought it was happening. I suppose I could have reacted like you did if I would be on your skin. I don't know. But perhaps one of our "errors" was to launch the game in episodes. We did like that because it was the only way to publish at least something and check the situation. Did anyone thought, that perhaps the idea was going a bit further, and that the other characters in the game will quite soon understand that there was not reason to talk about blindness? Did anyone thought, that perhaps Soren and Maria have had a love relationship before the accident, and that this was the reason why Soren wanted to touch for a moment her face? And we were not planning to talk about that until the forth episode! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411956/#p411956 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued wlomas wrote:i have to agree with the last poster here i think it has folded because they wanted the feedback to be positive and not at all negative.The project is on an Hiatus until we find the way to do it right, efficiently (without burning to the end the few money we have), with better quality, and with more interesting game play. But it is not an easy task. We are learning, and one thing we learnt was that it is not so easy to do a good quality game in a hurry and with small resources. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411954/#p411954 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued JaceK wrote:Okay. So. My $0.02(...)David. It seems you had QA/beta testing and decided, for whatever reason, not to change the script at that point. Was that due to restrictions on the development or just a ddesire to finish up developing and put out ep 1? I'm not expecting a billion word essay on this, a simple yes/no will suffice honestly.JaceK: It was my personal desire to finish up the developing of episode 1, and stick to the launch deadline that I set to the team 4 months before. I don't think it was an error, but we have paid a high price for it. We are not dead anyhow. We are keeping working on games, but we are not in a hurry anymore. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411953/#p411953 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Juliantheaudiogamer wrote:Hi,Have to agree with Rashad and Redfox here. If devs aren't willing to accept help from the community, but rather discontinue the game, then it's not the community's fault.Also, I read through the original goldgun released Topic again and found, as Rashad said, no criticism that the game didn't deserve. Sure, some things were repeated a bit too often, but the criticism wasn't too harsh.And to address this AVEK (this blind organization who forced mytruesound into this script): I would rather go bankrupt than let any damn organization fuck with my game script or whatever aspect of my Project.The developers are willing to accept the help from the community, but it is not as easy as like saying, yeah, help us, and then suddenly we have episode 2 done. AVEK is not a blind organization. It is the Finnish fund of audiovisual arts (or something like that). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411952/#p411952 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued connor142 wrote:@38 I highly doubt David had any say in the matter of discontinuation. From what I can gather, he was mainly the pr manager for the project. This means the decision to stop development didn't lie in his hands, at least not entirely.The decision was mine, but most of the team was agree. I'm the pr, but also the boss ;) And I think I was clever enough to realize that we couldn't continue the same way. Don't worry, GoldGun is coming back, sooner or later. At this time we are negotiating with a group of voice actors from this community. But it will take time, since now we are fully concentrated on the other games, but at the same time, without being stressed about a deadline.I said it once again. We launched too early, and it was my decision because I just thought it was the better, exactly, to verify that we were going the wrong way. Now we learned that. So yeah, it could have been a Prologue or Episode 0. What it is done is done, and now it is time to fix it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411950/#p411950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued redfox wrote:(...)Maybe it's me not seeing far enough into the situation, but it looks like he got a lot of critisism and was like, ono! I can't deal with this, instead of working with the comunity, discontinued!If I'm incorrect in anyway please correct me, but that's how it seems to me.redfox: i can admit that critics hurt, but we haven't give up. To all those who think my skin is thin and soft. You really don't know about the things I have faced in my life. I have eaten a lot of shit, and still I'm alive.I think I have said pretty clear before. We take some time now to improve and come back next time with much more energy and quality. We want to do the Audio Wizards and Music Maze, because they are different types of games which we are interested in develop now. But be sure of one thing. They will be better tested. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411949/#p411949 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Hi!49, that's why I'm truly glad that they're taking their time to reach the quality they really want. As I said, my criticism was not to be negative, but to give them a point because they're stepping back to find new and better solutions for their games. What I meant was: ok, this concept demo or whatever is really bad, in my opinion, but I like you developers because, instead of continuing on this way, you've the courage to stop to look for better roads. Maybe they'll resume this project when they'll have more experience with audiogames, maybe they'll never finish it but they'll give us something new that's really cool. I certainly prefer this to companies that keep producing new games with the same problems of their old ones. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411914/#p411914 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued @Siria: I believe all that you're saying was probably already on the consideration list for the next episodes, as those were going to get a lot more involved. This should've been called the prologue if anything, but episode 0 should be a major disclaimer that it's probably going to be short, and it's probably going to be merely a concept episode. IT was the same with Cygnus, except it was properly called a prologue and then episode 1 was much longer and more involved. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411907/#p411907 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued HiJaceK: I didn't mean to complain about the gestures used or the mecanics involved. but, there's a main difference between following people for a purpose or following people while they're talking about trivial matters, tilting a phone for a good reason or tilting it to enter a code, two things that are not related in any way. If I have to enter a code, I expect to discover it using my mind, not to tilt a phone to find a position that, to me at list, seemed always the same. Or, if I have to tilt a phone, maybe I have a melody to reproduce, and notes that change depending on how I tilt. There's a difference between simple mecanics and simplistic gameplay. You talked about picking dialogue choices. That's a simple thing to do, but, if the choices impact the story, it will lead to a great gameplay. Oh, another thing. What about the voice keeping telling you to just double tap to do this? I understand it's a tutorial, but why not just saying double tap to interact with objects at the start of the game instead of instructing you everytime. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411890/#p411890 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued siria wrote:Hi!I'm sorry to say this, but, in my opinion, taking a step back is the best thing the developers can do. I played the game and, onestly, it didn't seem a game at all, because there was no challenge. I know it was meant to be just a taste of the future, but a taste has to make you hungry, and, for me at list, this didn't happen. Think about the sighted comunity: how do you think they would react if they've been promised a revolutionary game but they get something where they just have to follow someone that's walking or tilt the phone following, for example, a light?However, I don't say this to discourage you developers further. On the contrary, I say this because we need passionate developers as you seem to be, and I think that a pitstop to rethink how you want to proceed and how to enance the quality of your products is the most clever and, most of all, the most respectful thing toward our comunity.So, keep up your work and your hopes. For me, I'll certainly buy or download your next games, because I'm curious to see where will you go.@46:You just described most AAA games, with an escort mission, and most games with motion controls, or in some cases mobile games. Difference is..sighted gamers *could* (I was gonna say *will* buttimes they are a changing), bite on marketing. Also. To carry on your sighted gamer comparison.Look up Telltale. Observe their games. Simplistic as hell. Yet. They were able to land massive, massive licenses with virtually no gameplay. Batman. Walking Dead. Game of Thrones, Minecraft Story Mode. All those games were, and I own the GoT games.basically..pick a dialogue choice, and do a QTE. Thatis the whole game. Oh, maybe walk around a tiny area.So. Goldgun Ep 1 had more gameplay than a Telltale game (not hard to do really). If Telltale had made their games audio only, people would swiftly find they have as much gameplay as your average quickly made audiogame. No. I'm not joking. Telltale were a studio that had one hit game and milked the above formula of barely any gameplay..and paid for it by running out of moneyAlso, again. A game where you follow people? Let me get the sales numbers for, literally, every modern FPS, ever. In those games you follow your team mates around. Find a door that's lockd? Oh. Gotta have your AI buddies open it. Find a vehicle? Oh, got to wait on your AI buddies to climb in before you can. Thenthere's Gearbox's entire library of games that are..Start game. Follow around. Shoot things. Collect loot. That is, at a simple level.EVERY Gearbox game. Ever. And most 'Triple A' shooters. Hell, even indie games have done this. Justlook up playthroughs of Borderlands 1 and 2, Aliens Colonial Marines, or any modern FPS. You'll be staring at the back of your teams heads for 90% of the game length.EDIT: Also, tilting a phone to follow a light? That's been done in mobile gaming and done to death. It was even done with the PS3's Sixaxis controller, for games like the (criminally underrated) Lair. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411864/#p411864 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued siria wrote:Hi!I'm sorry to say this, but, in my opinion, taking a step back is the best thing the developers can do. I played the game and, onestly, it didn't seem a game at all, because there was no challenge. I know it was meant to be just a taste of the future, but a taste has to make you hungry, and, for me at list, this didn't happen. Think about the sighted comunity: how do you think they would react if they've been promised a revolutionary game but they get something where they just have to follow someone that's walking or tilt the phone following, for example, a light?However, I don't say this to discourage you developers further. On the contrary, I say this because we need passionate developers as you seem to be, and I think that a pitstop to rethink how you want to proceed and how to enance the quality of your products is the most clever and, most of all, the most respectful thing toward our comunity.So, keep up your work and your hopes. For me, I'll certainly buy or download your next games, because I'm curious to see where will you go.@46:You just described most AAA games, with an escort mission, and most games with motion controls, or in some cases mobile games. Difference is..sighted gamers *could* (I was gonna say *will* buttimes they are a changing), bite on marketing. Also. To carry on your sighted gamer comparison.Look up Telltale. Observe their games. Simplistic as hell. Yet. They were able to land massive, massive licenses with virtually no gameplay. Batman. Walking Dead. Game of Thrones, Minecraft Story Mode. All those games were, and I own the GoT games.basically..pick a dialogue choice, and do a QTE. Thatis the whole game. Oh, maybe walk around a tiny area.So. Goldgun Ep 1 had more gameplay than a Telltale game (not hard to do really). If Telltale had made their games audio only, people would swiftly find they have as much gameplay as your average quickly made audiogame. No. I'm not joking. Telltale were a studio that had one hit game and milked the above formula of barely any gameplay..and paid for it by running out of moneyAlso, again. A game where you follow people? Let me get the sales numbers for, literally, every modern FPS, ever. In those games you follow your team mates around. Find a door that's lockd? Oh. Gotta have your AI buddies open it. Find a vehicle? Oh, got to wait on your AI buddies to climb in before you can. Thenthere's Gearbox's entire library of games that are..Start game. Follow around. Shoot things. Collect loot. That is, at a simple level.EVERY Gearbox game. Ever. And most 'Triple A' shooters. Hell, even indie games have done this. Justlook up playthroughs of Borderlands 1 and 2, Aliens Colonial Marines, or any modern FPS. You'll be staring at the back of your teams heads for 90% of the game length. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411864/#p411864 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Hi!I'm sorry to say this, but, in my opinion, taking a step back is the best thing the developers can do. I played the game and, onestly, it didn't seem a game at all, because there was no challenge. I know it was meant to be just a taste of the future, but a taste has to make you hungry, and, for me at list, this didn't happen. Think about the sighted comunity: how do you think they would react if they've been promised a revolutionary game but they get something where they just have to follow someone that's walking or tilt the phone following, for example, a light?However, I don't say this to discourage you developers further. On the contrary, I say this because we need passionate developers as you seem to be, and I think that a pitstop to rethink how you want to proceed and how to enance the quality of your products is the most clever and, most of all, the most respectful thing toward our comunity.So, keep up your work and your hopes. For me, I'll certainly buy or download your next games, because I'm curious to see where will you go. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411844/#p411844 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Ok. Who knows what they had to do or not do. The contract could've said that they had to stick to the initial script. Do some people not know how to read? The developer specifically stated that they were well aware of what they needed to improve. I would completely understand Rashad's point about there being power in numbers. Believe me, totally valid point. But when it is clear that the feedback has been received and will be fixed in the next episode, then continuing to hammer it is not helpful. It's tantamount to hundreds of people reporting a spam topic exactly when it comes up when the moderators are on a constant patrol for spambots and may only need one or two reports if it's been more than 24 hours. IT, just, isn't, necessary. This isn't even a matter of the holier than thou mindset, it's just a fact. This is why we need to adapt a bug-tracking system like what Github offers that developers can use to have users submit commits and the reports are organized, so that if a bug has been resolved, people will see that it has been resolved.Yes, you have a right to voice your concerns. No question. But it is not courteous to beat a dead horse when you know damn well the developer has already visibly acknowledged it.As for who's decision it was, again we don't know, although I do believe David was the pr for this project.@Juliantheaudiogamer, AS for would rather go bankrupt then cave to an organization, all I can say is try saying that as a developer who just got funded. If there's no money, there are no games. Plain and simple. Unless you go stealing sounds which you shouldn't. Even then, you couldn't get a free game out with that kind of voice acting and involved development. So come back when you're a developer and see if you'd say the same thing *spoiler alert: I doubt it.*And don't just say crowdfunding is the end-all-be-all. NS Studios tried that with his sound library and look where that got us *spoiler alert: nowhere, as I was the only contributor as all of you apparently wanted it to fall into your loving arms for free.* URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411788/#p411788 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued @Rashad: but the holier than thou goes every which way though is what I was saying. Is it holier than thou to defend devs to the nth degree? Yes. Could it be holier than thou to have X viewpoint...depending on your perspective? Absolutely.@Connor: Okay, but that's just saying the script had to have blindness, not X Y Z aspects of blindness. I still ££ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411739/#p411739 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued @JaceK1, they themselves talk about asking a blindness related organisation for money under the condition that the script mentions blindness in some way, as I understand it. They were not told they had to include a thing about face touching.2, at no point did I say that other people don't have the right to voice their opinions, I just wanted to point out the insanity of this holier than thou attitude about developers that some people have got going in this topic and many others. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411736/#p411736 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued @38 I highly doubt David had any say in the matter of discontinuation. From what I can gather, he was mainly the pr manager for the project. This means the decision to stop development didn't lie in his hands, at least not entirely. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411735/#p411735 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
2019-02-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — New releases room : Juliantheaudiogamer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Hi,Have to agree with Rashad and Redfox here. If devs aren't willing to accept help from the community, but rather discontinue the game, then it's not the community's fault.Also, I read through the original goldgun released Topic again and found, as Rashad said, no criticism that the game didn't deserve. Sure, some things were repeated a bit too often, but the criticism wasn't too harsh.And to address this AVEK (this blind organization who forced mytruesound into this script): I would rather go bankrupt than let any damn organization fuck with my game script or whatever aspect of my Project. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411720/#p411720 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Okay. So. My $0.02Do we know for sure that X orgianization put restrictions on the script, or is that just wild assumptions and speculation? I also want to raise a point I've been mulling over.Dark said in the other topic that the character is a blind whatever first. I don't feel that's solely the writers fault. I feel like the community as a whole shares the blame, and by 'community', I mean the entire blind community. I'd argue that the entire blind community needs to stop advertising the fact they are blind first. I mean, even on here, people are guilty of it, the Blind as an example. Games like A Blind Legend or Blindfold games don't, I feel, help the perception any of oh, they're blind, then they game, instead of, they're gamers who happen to be blind, cool. I'd even argue audiogaming is guilty of this to a certain degree.@Rashad: I agree with your point on the attitude, it was said to me ages ago that audiogamers treat developers like gods and, to paraphrase, hero worship them then get all hissy when devs don't keep churning out games.Also, yes and no on your black people example. Since it's in my mind at the moment, I'll say stereotypes can be used for satire or making a social commentary (but whether that's hitting home is a whole other debate though). Personally, I wasn't offended and I downloaded the game. I get how people could be offended, but at the same time I'd argue that no, the developers shouldn't remove that piece of dialog. Hear me out, before everyone starts bitching at methey should have, however expanded on it from all sides, perhaps had more dialog to explain from varying perspectives why it's okay in some cultures and not in others.I'd argue though your black people stereotype is flawed, mostly since you're assuming other people would be irritated/offened and complain, and a developer would take action. Not every developer does. There's this myth developers have to do what the community says, that's a fallacy.Also, yes, you got your right to voice your opinion, but so does everyone else. I worked in the AAA industry, as I've said multiple times, and though no, not a small indie outfitI do know how games are made. My question for the developers is this.David. It seems you had QA/beta testing and decided, for whatever reason, not to change the script at that point. Was that due to restrictions on the development or just a ddesire to finish up developing and put out ep 1? I'm not expecting a billion word essay on this, a simple yes/no will suffice honestly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411692/#p411692 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I really would love to help with either bvoice acting or sound design.Although I don't have a yeti, I can always mess with it to make it sound ok. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411691/#p411691 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued It really is a shame that this game is discontinued so fast, and it does kind of speak about David's character if he encountered some issues that a lot of us were more then willing to help, liam even said he'd help, for! free! Liam!Maybe it's me not seeing far enough into the situation, but it looks like he got a lot of critisism and was like, ono! I can't deal with this, instead of working with the comunity, discontinued!If I'm incorrect in anyway please correct me, but that's how it seems to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411686/#p411686 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Again, no one has called them names, or told them they were useless, or that their game is moronic, or other such noncess. we'd be having a different conversation if that was the case. People raised criticisms, that is all. If only one or two people bring up an issue, it can be assumed that only they are facing that issue. if 50 people bring up an issue, you know that it's actually a big deal, so this asking people to hold back their feedback because people have said something similar is frankly ridiculous.I also hate the attitude that occasionally goes on display here, where people come across as seemingly willing to defend it if a dev walked into their house and took a dump on their keyboard as long as they still continued to spew out games of any quality.As the consumer, I have the right to express my criticisms of a product. I don't have the right to yell at them to change it right this second, but I do have the right to say, look, your game isn't working for me, and I honestly couldn't recommend it to most people, because x reasons. this is what happened here. Free or not, I, the player, have this right to voice my feedback. They don't have to take it, but I can still point it out.Also, my understanding is that the blindness organization wasn't going to pay them anything if they didn't hit 10,000 downloads anyhow, which is a moot point considering the restrictions they placed on the script actively decreases the number of downloads.Keep in mind I wasn't offended or anything, just very irritated. I consider myself very open to blindness related satire, but as a stareotype that I encounter rather regularly with sighted people in my normal life it still irritates me to no end to have to deal with it in a game. I play a game for escapism. It's like playing a game about a black character as a black person and having the character only ever eat fried chicken, not necessarily offensive, but still, probably irritating and tasteless to leave in once the problem was pointed out to you, even if it happened purely by accident. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411674/#p411674 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I'm going to take something that was said in a topic about Breakerbox. Most games are one-man bands. This project is not, but it's still a small company. There is no soulless bottom-line-driven corporation behind this project, so no need for a pr nightmare. A developer may remain professional and stay cool when reacting to the negative comments, since after all it can and will happen inevitably. However, this went beyond negative comments to downright annoying shitstorm. No, the developer was not looking for positive feedback and positive feedback alone. The developer was looking for honest feedback, and honest feedback is not repeating the same thing over and over again when the developer has already clearly acknowledged it. Only reason I'm harping on my case is so that this shit doesn't happen again. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411567/#p411567 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I'm going to take something that was said in a topic about Breakerbox. Most games are one-man bands. This project is not, but it's still a small company. There is no soulless bottom-line-driven corporation behind this project, so no need for a pr nightmare. A developer may remain professional and stay cool when reacting to the negative comments, since after all it can and will happen inevitably. However, this went beyond negative comments to downright annoying shitstorm. No, the developer was not looking for positive feedback and positive feedback alone. The developer was looking for honest feedback, and honest feedback is not repeating the same thing over and over again when the developer has already clearly acknowledged it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411567/#p411567 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Come on, 33 and 34. Two things.1. Financial reasons also contributed to this project being put on hiatus.2. This is precisely the problem. You say people are harping on it more than they should've, yet you are still! harping about it. Do I have to remind you that the game was required to stick to the script for contractual reasons. I am quite sure that removing 30 seconds of dialogue, or replacing it, is exactly what the developers would've wanted to do. They have said time and again they don't like the script turnout and would change it, and yet you folks are telling them something they already know. Seriously, haters gonna hate I suppose.It's true that being a developer requires a thick skin. It's true that you kind of have to keep on trucking regardless of what people say if they get butthurt. But a developer cannot mute their initial thread out, because then they could be missing some crucial feedback that could've got posted. So, while it's true a developer should try and keep going regardless of what people say, this does not give anyone the right to be dickish towards the developer. Remember that this is the primary reason people like Ian Hamilton have suggested mainstream developers steer clear of this forum, precisely because! of some folks in this community just not hearing when enough is enough. Yes, i completely get that a developer should take constructive criticism, that's completely valid. Yes, I understand that destructive criticism will happen at some point (there's always one.) But if people see that the same thing has been posted over and over, then it's going to get annoying because amid some genuine feedback posts, you are reading the same damn thing again and again. I have to give it to those who have taken the time to reflect on what their actions may have caused a developer to do, but this is not a thread to continue this imaginary unresolved grievance some people may have with this game.Also:Rashad wrote:I would rather have one good game than 500 terrible ones.I know this is figurative, but hold it right there. In the mainstream world, we can afford to wait around for the next big game amidst dozens of others. We should know damn well that that isn't the same with audio games; every audio game released has an impact.Also, can I point out that some blind people act so spoiled when it comes to misconceptions? Don't get me wrong I'm not discounting the fact that there is legitimate discrimination going on against blind people and that is to be condemned, but when people are fighting against actual racial/other slurs that are much more harmful and damnable words being used, blindness misconceptions are merely harmless. Do we need to educate? Certainly, but that's just it, educate and not shove blindness into everyone's face. This is precisely why parts of the nfb get a bad rap, precisely because of the general whiny attitude. If we could take the time and realize that some people just don't get it because of the media's portrayal of blind people and their general limited interaction with blind people, and aren't trying to knowingly cause any harm, then we would take the time to educate them more rather than slam them.You complain about being judged yet you judge others like no one's business. Ok, fine, then give me a list of blind people *insert person here* has interacted with. Come on, you've been keeping tabs on them, you must be, or else...can't do it huh? I thought so. Remember, the script-writer has said time and again he had only had interaction with one blind person, the sound engineer. Could he have done more research? Absolutely. Could this community have been a source or research, even after the fact? Hell yeah! But were most of it? Hell no! And that's what people need to think about. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411566/#p411566 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Come on, 33 and 34. Two things.1. Financial reasons also contributed to this project being put on hiatus.2. This is precisely the problem. You say people are harping on it more than they should've, yet you are still! harping about it. Do I have to remind you that the game was required to stick to the script for contractual reasons. I am quite sure that removing 30 seconds of dialogue, or replacing it, is exactly what the developers would've wanted to do. They have said time and again they don't like the script turnout and would change it, and yet you folks are telling them something they already know. Seriously, haters gonna hate I suppose.It's true that being a developer requires a thick sin. It's true that you kind of have to keep on trucking regardless of what people say if they get butthurt. But a developer cannot mute their initial thread out, because then they could be missing some crucial feedback that could've got posted. So, while it's true a developer should try and keep going regardless of what people say, this does not give anyone the right to be dickish towards the developer. Remember that this is the primary reason people like Ian Hamilton have suggested mainstream developers steer clear of this forum, precisely because! of some folks in this community just not hearing when enough is enough. Yes, i completely get that a developer should take constructive criticism, that's completely valid. Yes, I understand that destructive criticism will happen at some point (there's always one.) But if people see that the same thing has been posted over and over, then it's going to get annoying because amid some genuine feedback posts, you are reading the same damn thing again and again. I have to give it to those who have taken the time to reflect on what their actions may have caused a developer to do, but this is not a thread to continue this imaginary unresolved grievance some people may have with this game.Also:Rashad wrote:I would rather have one good game than 500 terrible ones.I know this is figurative, but hold it right there. In the mainstream world, we can afford to wait around for the next big game amidst dozens of others. We should know damn well that that isn't the same with audio games; every audio game released has an impact.Also, can I point out that some blind people act so spoiled when it comes to misconceptions? Don't get me wrong I'm not discounting the fact that there is legitimate discrimination going on against blind people and that is to be condemned, but when people are fighting against actual racial/other slurs that are much more harmful and damnable words being used, blindness misconceptions are merely harmless. Do we need to educate? Certainly, but that's just it, educate and not shove blindness into everyone's face. This is precisely why parts of the nfb get a bad rap, precisely because of the general whiny attitude. If we could take the time and realize that some people just don't get it because of the media's portrayal of blind people and their general limited interaction with blind people, and aren't trying to knowingly cause any harm, then we would take the time to educate them more rather than slam them.You complain about being judged yet you judge others like no one's business. Ok, fine, then give me a list of blind people *insert person here* has interacted with. Come on, you've been keeping tabs on them, you must be, or else...can't do it huh? I thought so. Remember, the script-writer has said time and again he had only had interaction with one blind person, the sound engineer. Could he have done more research? Absolutely. Could this community have been a source or research, even after the fact? Hell yeah! But were most of it? Hell no! And that's what people need to think about. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411566/#p411566 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued i have to agree with the last poster here i think it has folded because they wanted the feedback to be positive and not at all negative. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411548/#p411548 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Personally, I didn't see any extremely negative criticism written anywhere about the game. Yes, people harped on about the subpar sound quality and things a lot more then they likely should have, but no one was particularly mean about it. And, as for the face touching thing, I had to stop playing the game because I just couldn't get past my frustration, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one, making it a game breaking issue for many people, one, mind you, that could have been fixed by deleting 30 seconds of dialogue without impacting the story of the rest of the game whatsoever.I really don't know what to say here, other than if you hype up a game as much as this one was hyped, and it doesn't live up to expectations, people will be disappointed. this is the honest truth. if you can't deal with it, maybe you're not cut out to make projects for public consumption. the real world isn't full of rainbows. If this drives people away from making games, then so be it. I would rather have one good game than 500 terrible ones.This game had potential, given a little work, even just as an audio drama blind legend esk game. personally, just deleting those 30 seconds of dialogue would have gotten it an okay from me, till I saw the future episodes. I'd not be surprised if many people agree with me on this point. As to people going on about it being like turning down a free meal. If I'm given a free meal, and it gives me food poisoning, I'm probably going to tell my friends not to accept meals from the same person/place. TLDR: a thick skin is required to make anything for any community, and really nothing rood/insulting etc was thrown at these devs. they folded because of people's honest feedback. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411515/#p411515 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Juliantheaudiogamer wrote:And to SLJ: Dude, after that logic, if someone cooked something that tasted awful, but I myself couldn't cook, I couldn't tell the Person who cooked the meal because I would have to make it better.Exactly, that's my point. Unless you are paying for something you have guaranteed is in good quality. Many people are just sitting there complaining the hell out of everything, without trying to make a difference themself. That also goes for food. Many people are criticising so many things, without being able to make it better themself. They are even doing that with products they get for free. You get what you pay for... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411433/#p411433 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I think that's a great goal to strive for, but I think that may be a bit much given the size of our community. However, 1400 downloads in 10 days is definitely something to be proud of. There were a lot of critics, but then a lot of people actually curious and wanting to try the game. So in short, 1 downloads is a great longterm goal, but for what it's worth, congrats on 1400. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411396/#p411396 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I think that's a great goal to strive for, but I think that may be a bit much given the size of our community. However, 1400 downloads in 10 days is definitely something to be proud of. There were a lot of critics, but then a lot of people actually curious and wanting to try the game. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411396/#p411396 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued jack wrote:Well, in fairness, the game actually had to fold also due to the financial burden )they said what they were hoping to create was getting expensive, and the high number of downloads seemed like the organization they got funding from was expecting way too much.) I think this was 1 downloads to prove there's a market. 1 downloads in the first few days of the project, I don't think that's very realistic personally. Even with several different online communities, you encounter many of the same people. You'd have to have some sort of mainstream coverage before you got close to 1000 downloads. It got over a thousand, which isn't bad for an initial debut, and I would say be proud of that despite what some bottom-line interested funding organization may think (AVEC is probably not that, but they seem pretty unreasonable when it comes to audiogames.)AVEK was only demanding that we would do the demo, which we decided to publish, and that the script will be similar to the original. They did not demand numbers of downloads. This was my personal goal to proof investors about the size and possibilities of the market. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411358/#p411358 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Juliantheaudiogamer wrote:Hi,(...) If the second Episode is written already, why don't you release it? (The fortune favors the bold or however that saying goes.)(...).there is a long way between the Script until the final game. A veeery long one, and that is what we try to solve now, so the production is efficient and well done. Public has demanded better final product, and we heard it give us some time. We will be back. The best is yet to come URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411357/#p411357 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Julian, I'd steer clear of *intolerable* as the script-writer has indicated that no harm was intended, as was said by the audio engineer. He was the only blind person the scriptwriter had contacted, i.e he didn't research into it enough, so it is just a simple mistake. Don't worry about it, it won't happen again. No need to bring up the "unresolved grievance." And I think episode two is not released because of it doesn't have voice acting or sounds, though they can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411351/#p411351 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
2019-02-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — New releases room : Juliantheaudiogamer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Hi,I think you all Forget that there is a Major difference betweén mentioning blindness in a game (which would be no Problem for me) and outright stereotyping (which is not tolerable).What the People who gave harsh critics were probabbly offended by was not the mentioning of blindness, but the extreme stereotyping.I am not saying that the way some critics were made was the right way.And to the mytruesound Team: If the second Episode is written already, why don't you release it? (The fortune favors the bold or however that saying goes.)And to SLJ: Dude, after that logic, if someone cooked something that tasted awful, but I myself couldn't cook, I couldn't tell the Person who cooked the meal because I would have to make it better.What I hope is that we all can learn from this and that we won't scare off devs in the future. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411338/#p411338 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued FYI, I do think they said something about the fact they are going to carry on anyway, so let's say their funding was wildly successful anyway , I would think the project would've gone on no problem. I think they kept wanting to find local voice actor because they were hesitant to deal with people with different audio setups. But that, ironically, is exactly one of the things you should be looking for in an audition process. For example, don't even try if you have just an iPhone or your computer as a microphone, maybe list a recommend one (I personally use the Yeti with enough effort to get it on the right gain level for my voice given the situation.) But it is nevertheless possible to hire non-local voice actors for the project from all parts of the community, and just weed out the ones with less than stellar setups. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411316/#p411316 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Well, in fairness, the game actually had to fold also due to the financial burden )they said what they were hoping to create was getting expensive, and the high number of downloads seemed like the organization they got funding from was expecting way too much.) I think this was 1 downloads to prove there's a market. 1 downloads in the first few days of the project, I don't think that's very realistic personally. Even with several different online communities, you encounter many of the same people. You'd have to have some sort of mainstream coverage before you got close to 1000 downloads. It got over a thousand, which isn't bad for an initial debut, and I would say be proud of that despite what some bottom-line interested funding organization may think (AVEC is probably not that, but they seem pretty unreasonable when it comes to audiogames.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411315/#p411315 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued One of the reasons I never took the time to find out what this game was about is because I had a gut feeling the project would be scrapped eventually. It seems like a lot of developers are throwing in the towel nowadays because people don't like what they put out. Back when the market was still young, you forged ahead no matter what people said, but I fear that over time developers have become more and more sensitive and are more customer-driven. For example, I've seen countless topics on this forum asking if people will like a certain game before the developer ventures out to create it. So, instead of the developers leading the market, they are asking for the broad customer base to lead the market.This type of attitude shows the unwillingness to take risks like what we used to do years ago. All of us, from me to Liam Erven to David Greenwood, were criticized heavily for our work. One of the first people to bring the blind community together online, Joker Dog, creator of Accessible Chat, was heavily criticized for the "simple nature" of his games. Yet he forged ahead. Despite all this, our games still existed ( many of which still exist to this day.) But this type of "I'm leaving because you guys hurt my feelings and criticized me" attitude is making me more and more hesitant to try new games, because eventually the developers will get all hurt and things and abandon the project.Especially for a game like this where each chapter is paid, now I'm really, really glad I didn't get into it because I'd be left hanging along with everyone who played it and actually got involved in the story line.There was a really good game by a kid named Danny a while ago, and he left for the same reason: couldn't handle the criticism. You'd be surprised if I tell you what some people said about TDV when it was under development. I think folks are finally finding out that producing games is so much more than just hammering away at a keyboard: it requires thick skin and true, dedicated effort, which no one has today. So yay to another short-lived spark and may the trend continue for any new developer that comes along and gets butt-hurt by what people said. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411305/#p411305 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued One of the reasons I never took the time to find out what this game was about is because I had a gut feeling the project would be scrapped eventually. It seems like a lot of developers are throwing in the towel nowadays because people don't like what they put out. Back when the market was still young, you forged ahead no matter what people said, but I fear that over time developers have become more and more sensitive and are more customer-driven. For example, I've seen countless topics on this forum asking if people will like a certain game before the developer ventures out to create it. So, instead of the developers leading the market, they are asking for the broad customer base to lead the market.This type of attitude shows the unwillingness to take risks like what we used to do years ago. All of us, from me to Liam Erven to David Greenwood, were criticized heavily for our work. Yet our games still existed ( many of which still exist to this day.) But this type of "I'm leaving because you guys hurt my feelings and criticized me" attitude is making me more and more hesitant to try new games, because eventually the developers will get all hurt and things and abandon the project.Especially for a game like this where each chapter is paid, now I'm really, really glad I didn't get into it because I'd be left hanging along with everyone who played it and actually got involved in the story line.There was a really good game by a kid named Danny a while ago, and he left for the same reason: couldn't handle the criticism. I think folks are finally finding out that producing games is so much more than just hammering away at a keyboard: it requires thick skin and true, dedicated effort, which no one has today. So yay to another short-lived spark and may the trend continue for any new developer that comes along and gets butt-hurt by what people said. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411305/#p411305 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued So sad to hear this. I heard Liam played it on YouTube, and it was pretty good. Sadly this won't work on my Android device. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411286/#p411286 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Greetings to all,I have no idea what the game is about for I haven't played it but one thing I can say. I agree with SLJ in saying that there's no point on harping on ssomething being bad if you don't have the guts to put forth your ideas even help. I perhsonally am a sound designer at heart. I use programs like audacity and gold wave, and I am also a music composer as well. Going to try to get into reaper quite soon but for the most part my main audio editors are audacity and gold wave. As for voice acting, all I need is the lines and how to say them and I'm on board. I don't charge for it either for I feel that this is something I can give without the need for money in return. But point being to conclude with, don't let things discourage you from creating. Too much I have done that and can say that it only wears folks down. So keep with it, and if there is any help I can give as far as acting or sound design, please let me know. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411268/#p411268 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued So, to all of you who have said the sound design and voice acting in the game is bad: Now it's time to show how you can do it better. When you think it's that bad, you must help them with better sound design and voice acting. You must know how to do it since you said it's bad... So please contact those guys from Finland with your offers of sound design and voice acting, so you can help them make the best games possible in the future. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411249/#p411249 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued David_Oliva wrote:Our main programmer Joshua was working on an update to fix some of the main bugs, specially for the Android. But I don't know about his motivation to publish it now once this decision was taken. He went now for well-deserved vacations back home, and I will not ask him about that until he gets back.That's fair, after all *and I think the community is coming to its senses and realizing this* he worked hard on the project like everyone did. No rush. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411181/#p411181 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued @nolly That's exactly it, and I think that people were completely ignoring the fact that the developer clearly stated this was a pilot run and they were well aware of the problems that existed in the game.As for voice acting, you might want to get in contact with someone like Munawar or Out of Site who did this same thing, i.e hiring a production team/voice acting crew *matter of fact, most of the voice actors in the flight simulator game Three-D Velocity were from this community, so if you offer this openly I'm sure you could get good results.* That game had some superior voice acting you wouldn't see in many other games. Long and short of it is that you don't always have to try and hammer out a deal with the pro-folks, as several members of the community are happy to offer up their experience. You did mention the issue of people with different audio setups and it being difficult to manage that, well firstly having multiple audio production folks can speed up that process some, and second, you can generally be pretty selective if you're auditioning voice actors. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411176/#p411176 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I'm often asked why I don't become involved in the blind community where I live. What happened here is one of the major reasons, soft skin and what I like to refer to as blind entitlement. The number of people I meet who carry a sighted people need to give it to me now, when I want it, where I want it and the way I want it without any flaws attitude is staggering. I've even had interactions with people who are openly bitter because others can see and they can not, and because of this fact they demand those who have sight to help them in every day life as well as do everything in their power to make anything and everything accessible, regardless if it is even realistically possible.I do understand that there are those who were offended with some of the perceptions made about blind people in this game. The issue I take with the knee jerk reactions is that it was not meant to be offensive, nor was it meant to be mocking those without sight. Some also complained that they should have done more research, yet that is what they wer attempting to do by asking for advice on this forum.In conclusion too many blind people complain that sighted people don't care about the blind community and how they are uneducated about people without sight, yet when someone willingly asks to be educated, all they can do is complain about how uneducated they are, expecting sighted people to magically know everything there is about the lifestyle of a blind person. If they can't seek information directly from the source, how are they to become knowledgeable about what is fact and what is fiction. As far as game quality goes, they clearly stated that it was a work in progress, yet people decided to complain about things that would likely be fixed given the proper time and suggestions. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411128/#p411128 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I'm often asked why I don't become involved in the blind community where I live. What happened here is one of the major reasons, soft skin and what I like to refer to as blind entitlement. The number of people I meet who carry a sighted people need to give it to me now, when I want it, where I want it and the way I want it without any flaws attitude is staggering. I've even had interactions with people who are openly bitter because others can see and they can not, and because of this fact they demand those who have sight to help them in every day life as well as do everything in their power to make anything and everything accessible, regardless if it is even realistically possible.I do understand that there are those who were offended with some of the perceptions made about blind people in this game. The issue I take with the knee jerk reactions is that it was not meant to be offensive, nor was it meant to be mocking those without sight. Some also complained that they should have done more research, yet that is what they wer attempting to do by asking for advice on this forum.In conclusion too many blind people complain that sighted people don't care about the blind community and how they are uneducated about people without sight, yet when someone willingly asks to be educated, all they can do is complain about how uneducated they are, expecting sighted people to magically know everything there is about the lifestyle of a blind person. If they can't seek information directly from the source, how are they to become knowledgeable about what is fact and what is fiction. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411128/#p411128 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Dear friends. Thanks a lot for the self-criticism, and for the kind words you have shared now supporting us. We appreciate them, and they show to us that definitely we are welcome on this forum and around you. Don't worry. We are not quitting, and we will bring some cool games bit by bit. We just realized that we need to do the things better next time, so this wont happen. No way we give up, not yet at least, so let's forget as soon as possible about all this that has happened, and let's look for a future together, where developers and gamers share the same ideas and interests. We are going to work hard, but we will need some months before we can start with the beta testing of Audio Wizards and Music Maze (we have two independent teams working on it, so let's see who gets it faster).Regarding GoldGun; I really think, as most of you, that the game had potential. But I need to find a solution for the voice actors. So if you know some group of fellows that would like to come on board, please, let me know. The idea would be to take out the bad of episode 1, and add the good to the episode 2 on a new brand game, where dialogues, minigames and audio quality are perfect. So a new start, kind of GoldGun Reloaded Best regards, david URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411123/#p411123 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued that's a real shame, as stated, I saw some big production errors, but I feel like the game could've been amazing if you just put your mind to it.Sound quality, although it helps, isn't everything URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/48/#p48 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued jack wrote:I think it's fair to ask you this though. AS long as it holds no extra financial burden to do so, can you at least keep the original on the app stores so people can play for as long as the thing is still supported on their hardware? Some, like me, actually enjoyed the game and would hate to lose it. With Android, you can backup apps (even unrooted if you are willing to read a cataloged directory listing.) On IOS, that process is very difficult and often impossible.Sure is fair to ask Jack. Our main programmer Joshua was working on an update to fix some of the main bugs, specially for the Android. But I don't know about his motivation to publish it now once this decision was taken. He went now for well-deserved vacations back home, and I will not ask him about that until he gets back. I get you back on that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/41/#p41 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Even more especially when the developer specifically states they are well aware of the script issues early on. No need for it to have been done to death like it was. If David is alright with it, if the app really is going on hiatus, I would like to at least upload a copy of the Android app to the Audiogames archive. I know the menus don't speak on this one, at least not on my phone, but for people who are willing to go through that to be able to play the rest of the game, this game deserves some dignity after what's happened. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411101/#p411101 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Even more especially when the developer specifically states they are well aware of the script issues early on. No need for it to have been done to death like it was. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411101/#p411101 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued There was promise in this game, and I really liked it for what it was. I agree with what others said here about people's comments. Sadly, I kinda figured that this would happen just because of the amount of criticism. I understand about the stereotypes, and I don't like it either, but people keeping harping on and on about it is going to do much more harm than good.If we keep this up, we won't have any games to play, and all developers will turn away from the community. The moral of the story is: be nicer to people, and look at the positives of the games first. And above all, read all of the posts before you post anything. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411094/#p411094 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued There was promise in this game, and I really liked it for what it was. I agree with what others said here about people's comments. Sadly, I kinda figured that this would happen just because of the amount of critic,$m. I understand about the stereotypes, and I don't like it either, but people keeping harping on and on about it is going to do much more harm than good.If willkeep this up, we won't have any games to play, and all developers will turn away from the community. The moral of the story is: be nicer to people, and look at the positives of the games first. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411094/#p411094 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued You were flying like you are blind.god damn it! I knew I should've given him an eye test before he took off.God I remember that line, I wish that was still in the simulators. That concept build was hilarious.Anyway, Munawar is absolutely right, this community does get too up tight. You know, compared to other remarks, the blind stuff is not harming in any way, shape or form. Is it a misconception/misguided? Sure. But think of this, I'd say one in ten people are actually likely to end up meeting and talking to a blind person regularly, simply because there's fewer of us, naturally. Some of the concepts people have are from the mainstream media which does a poor job at best, and they couldn't imagine what it's like living without sight.Anyway, I'm back to go destroy Contact 1 Bogie...oh wait. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411070/#p411070 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I never downloaded or followed this game, but I do remember a time when TDV was under development and people got butt-hurt that we were using the word "blind" in it. I don't know what people got offended by here or what stereotypes they found too offensive for their pretty little ears, but I feel you and know exactly what you're talking about, coming from the perspective of a developer who got screamed at for jokingly calling the main character blind if they lost.So yeah, this community in particular seems to get offended very easily. I think this community is too uptight, but I hope it never discourages you from developing games. We need more serious developers who will actually pay for quality content as you've done, instead of just using synthesizers and then charging for the game anyway.The best way to handle it is say "the hell with it" and develop what you want to. In my experience, people will buy it if they think it's good because the screamers usually get shut down by the adults. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411055/#p411055 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued First of all I feel really sorry about that. I hate it that it had to come this far. You most definitely deserve better.I nevertheless want to come back to the criticism part. I think there are two lessons to be learned here.First lesson:Criticism in the gaming community is almost never constructive and helpful. Partly because many gamers are really young in age, partly because it is such an anonymous medium.Game developers need to build up a way to deal with that and evaluate feedback they get wether its immature shit storm or sincere feedback.However I really think that some of us with the latter - me included - crossed the line to shit storm in their tone. So we as a community can learn something from this as well.Second lesson:You are developing your games for a specific target group. If you want them to buy your product they need to like it enough.Thats the bittersweet part of capitalism. No matter what your intentions are or what your artistic ethos demands. If it doesn't fit the needs of your customers you can't earn money with it.So a big part in planning a project should be how it can appeal to enough people to get some returns for invested time and money.The target group here mostly was the visually impaired community. They tend to be quite audiophile and sometimes a bit thin-skinned about the blindness topic.In retrospect its easy to come to this kind of conclusions, I know. But hopefully it helps to reflect what has gone wrong here for future projects.I really hope that you guys are not to discouraged to continue your development as a whole. To end on a positive note here:I think this whole GoldGun shit storm had one big upside. It raised awareness to your company. It wasn't the best advertisement for GoldGun itself but I firmly believe that you are one of the better known companies for audio games out there now.I personally believe it might be a good idea to discontinue GoldGun, at least for now. You have my sincere respect for this difficult decision. But you can build up on your prominency and the learning experience you had with this project.I for my part will remain supporting you as good as possible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411032/#p411032 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Hi.This is sad news indeed, but I'm glad you will work on the other games. I'm also glad that you don't take all the critics extremely offensive, because that's not really what people mean to do. I mean, people won't offend you personally, which is a very important thing to remember.You can be proud of having made your first release. What is the reason for taking it off the stores when it's free and you will continue the development of other games in the future? Does it cost you extra to have Goldgun in the app store?Keep up the awesome job guys. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411021/#p411021 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued This is a dark moment for this community. One of the worst things we could have done. We go after each other all the time but when you look at things in the grand space of time, it really doesn't matter. What we did this time was probably the worst persecution I can remember. Did these guys make a mistake, yes. Did they need to become aware of it, yes. Did they deserve what we did to them, an emphatic no.I think there are lessons to go around. On our end though, imagine if all the energy that was built by frustration was put into education and awareness, maybe this stereotype wouldn't exist anymore. Maybe the tired old narrative and cliches we have pushed upon us wouldn't exist.I'll never be someone to sugar coat things. I'll never be someone to cover up the truth or tell white little lies to spare feelings, but this went beyond all that. I'm not proud of my part in this to say the least, even though it definitely wasn't my intention to cause this, or even be party to the cause of this. I simply posted without reading the rest of the topic, a mistake on my part. I think everyone who had harsh words for this game should think on how they could have dealt with the situation a bit better. Again, I do not dispute that the developers should be aware that they're perpetuating stereotypes against us, but more important is how we say something, than what we say.I don't think the criticisms were the entire reason the project has been suspended, but they could play a fairly substantial role. It is highly discouraging to read so much negativity on something you've spent a lot of time working on. That should be another take away from all this, for every project, there are people who work to bring it forth. So while constructive criticism is fine, blatant overbearing destructive criticism is not. There were points raised that were constructive, I'm not trying to undermine that fact, but I urge everyone who responded in not such a courteous way to think about the impact their choices will have, and I will do the same. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411017/#p411017 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
2019-02-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — New releases room : Blind Sparrow Interactive via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I'm genuinely sorry to hear this. I'd really love for you to succeed. Please learn from what happened here so that your other games can succeed. That doesn't just mean reviewing the coding and development process, but I'm sure you have learned plenty from a financial point of view, a marketing point of view and many others.In defence of this forum, criticism of any kind can feel harsh. But a lot of what was said was fair, even if the way it was said wasn't perfect at times. If you step into a space - any space you aren't familiar with - and want to represent that culture, you have to be sensitive to it; you have to spend as much time trying to understand it as you do developing your game. Either that or you ensure that the people who are from that culture are as much a part of the development process as you are. Preferably both.I say all of this at the risk of our own first project nearing completion. And I would hope that I can hold any of Blind Sparrow's projects up to the same scrutiny.You clearly have the passion. You have potential. Your world may feel like it took a massive blow, but I'd say everyone here is still wanting you to succeed. Don't give up; be imbued with the wisdom of what happened and renewed hope.And, please, feel free to DM me via Twitter for that Skype call we never had. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/411013/#p411013 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Sad news, but I'm glad to hear you guys are going to continue with other games! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/410993/#p410993 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I think it's fair to ask you this though. AS long as it holds no extra financial burden to do so, can you at least keep the original on the app stores so people can play for as long as the thing is still supported on their hardware? Some, like me, actually enjoyed the game and would hate to lose it. With Android, you can backup apps (even unrooted if you are willing to read a cataloged directory listing.) On IOS, that process is very difficult and often impossible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/410985/#p410985 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued As for the game, I know this is probably not the primary reason for tabling the project, but you folks who got offended need to realize how much an effect your words have on a developer, whether they have a thick skin or not. If they get negative press, that's demotivational. The degree of demotivation is determined by how much they can take, but 1 they shouldn't have to take destructive criticism, and 2 it doesn't matter when you're not just the talk of the town, rather the talk of the internet. Let that sink in. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/410948/#p410948 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Yeah, I would say it's quite unfortunate it had to go on hiatus for now. And I'm not going to suggest a free/no-cost solution someone suggested the r/record this for freesubreddit, and a lot of folks use fiver as it is, admittedly, a budget-friendly solution, but it's a forced budget-friendly solution. I feel, if used right, it can actually yield some pretty good results (the new Brutus actor who also voiced the credits role came from Fiver, and that guy being from the US, he played the part very well (often more sarcastic than manically insane, but still a good result.) Those are the kind of people who will hopefully move on to bigger and better lines of work, as Fiver is generally an insult to the true creators. It's a good starting point, but the fact that you are practically forced to charge $5 and don't even get $5 for your troubles since Fiver takes a cut, leaves a lot to be desired. What I'd like to see is this kind of thing just embedding itself into something like voices.com, where the signup to that site isn't as intimidating as it's made out to be, and there's a low-cost starting point that hobbiests can hop onto. Then, once they've gotten more wide recognition, they don't have to switch platforms and aren't limited to the creator-unfriendly nature of Fiver. On the other end of the spectrum, I've seen Fiver abused before; someone released a station playlist controller/automation machine program that they used on their radio station, and charge a little under 200bucks for it. But it was programmed by, get ready, a person on a freelance community called Fiver, and they only get a one-time payment of 4 bucks from that customer who is now probably happily making off with his own brand new software selling multiple copies for $200 a piece, or something. Is it legal? Yes, but not ethical in the least.I'll get back on topic in the next post, but my point really is it's hard to find budget-friendly voice acting, but it also can be said that a lot more work could be done to bridge the gap between the budget-friendly community and the pros. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/410946/#p410946 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Re: Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued I am sorry to hear that. Stay proud of yourselves. After all, you made a difference by releasing a game. You made something all your own and so it may not have been anything original? You still made it. As for offensive stereotypes, I didn’t see it as a reason not to try out the game. It didn’t really offend me, but it did seem rather cliché. Everything else though, yeah, I agree with completely. However, I am definitely looking forward to your other games. They seem very arcade like and I love that kind of simplicity every now and again. Keep it up, guys. You will get there eventually. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/410929/#p410929 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued
Future of GoldGun: Production discontinued Hello dear friends.We have some news to share, but unfortunately this time they are bad for us, and specially very sad for me. I don't know if it is normal to open it like that, but I know some of you liked the project, so I wanted to open this thing a little bit.We have decided to stop the production of GoldGun for an undefined period of time. The reasons are several, and when all of them get combined, it is difficult to keep the boat floating. I summarize some of the reasons: 1- production of each episode is too expensive for us at this time, if we need to reach the quality that many players demand. 2- difficulty to get the return of investment. Difficulty to estimate the number of downloads for next payable episode.3- too many negative critics around what we did, and sorry to be honest, too many what we HAVE to do (not what we could try to do). We never tried to be offensive, neither go into stereotypes. But we did, and some might not give us a second chance. To some of the team members, it has been hard to read all, specially when we did it with quite much love. To me it was okay, I'm hard as a stone.4- difficulties to get competent voice actors from our neighborhood with such low budget 5- need to work harder on the audio quality before anything else can be released6- other projects we want also to do, e.g. music maze and audio wizards, before we can decide what is the type of games we want to do.7- stress and tiredness on some of usSo yeah, if you played the game, you are one of the lucky ones (who played that sh#t). We will not make any more publicity of it, but it will stay available for at least one more month on app stores. I would like to take it out from there, but it is part of my learning, and I need to follow for some weeks its evolution.However, we are also kind of proud of what we did. We know many indie game companies that delay and delay the launch because they never think they are ready and are too scared of the critics. I think the critics in here were very hard, but we also learned a lot. We did a huge open betatesting, and 1400 persons have downloaded the game in 10 days. We got our game on the app stores, and that nobody will takes it away. We also know that cancelling projects on game companies is quite of common, and before we loose all the money and go bankrupt, we prefer to change the topic.I don't want to end this message with saying special thanks to all the people that liked the project, and send to us kind words to continue. Sure not everything was negative criticism. There was constructive criticism too, which was very valuable and which will help us to make a better second episode if we ever do it. We know many people liked the concept and the story behind GoldGun. That is perhaps the most bitter thing, because the next episode was already written, it had four quite complete minigames, and so on. It would have also included a revision of Episode 1, so new players would not have to play that one, and could jump straight to the second.All in all: Stopping in here was not an easy decision, but actually quite logic based on all the facts. Before I end up: many players offered themselves as voice actors. We really considered that option, but we were afraid of how would affect to the sound quality if different actors record on different spaces with different acoustic characteristics. I think it could have worked out, but on my team they were not really sure with that. Nevertheless, if somebody in there would like to co-ordinate the voice acting, like recruitment, directing, recording and editing, we would be quite ok with outsourcing this part. That actually could simplify some things and help us to take the project back to work. We would also love that all voice actors are from the blind community, not only on GoldGun, but all future games. If you have any ideas, write us to gold...@mytruesound.comAnd last words: We are not dead. We will come back with Audio Wizards and Music Maze. We love this forum, so we will post news from time to time. If you want to keep up to date, remember for visit from time to time our website. Best regards, david URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/410926/#p410926 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
