Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Heres an interesting question Id like to see answered by those who say they would follow God if he personally presented himself, and I made this question of my own self a year ago just before becoming a Christian, which is why I dont feel any hesitation asking it.Think about this seriously for just a second and honestly tell me that you would follow Jesus if Jesus came to you and said he was Jesus? What stops him from being Satan? What stops him from being an evil apparition trying to deceive you? What prevents him from simply being a figment of your imagination and you possibly losing your mind? You could ask him questions, sure. You could even atempt to gauge by the responses he gives that he is in fact the son of God, but how would you truly know, and why would you honestly believe his answers so quickly if he has left you evidence before and you did not believe? Would you suddenly believe it if he told you bladestorm or Nocturnus was right? Would you believe him if he said to you that everything you heard on a forum on a website called audiogames net was true? Would you honestly be able to throw away all your rationality, all of your reasonability and all of the evidence you have previously been presented with against him just to follow him?I think not; you would still have to decide. You wouldnt be forced into it; he wouldnt make you come along and subject you to torture if you didnt. If the rapture occured tomorrow and billions of Christians disappeared from their homes and from business establishments in which they work, you would still have a choice to make. If God spoke to everyone through a giant cloud that suddenly covered all of the heavens, darkening everything the eye could see, you would still have a choice to make. If God presented you with a check today containing more than a million dollars and it were signed by him in suc h a way that no computer could read said signature but you clearly could and so could anyone else at the bank you went to cash it in at, you would still have a choice to make. If he saved you from falling off a cliff just before you hit the ground by extending a visible hand through the air and said, follow me son, daughter, I love you, I want you, I cherish you more than you could ever imagine and I want to save your soul from eternal damnation, and all you need do is follow me, just follow me, please, follow me, you would still have a choice to make. You could choose to suggest that a strange phenomena is responsible for the disappearance of billions in the case of the rapture, could choose to believe your vision and your hearing were playing tricks on you as the result of fear and that you misheard the entire thing or that it in fact did not exist and that everyone around you is deluding themselves and that there never was a cloud, or that said cloud could be explaine d away scientifically but that it would take thousands of years to pinpoint its origin, might choose to believe that the check was a huge hoax, could choose to believe that you managed to escape the fall by shere chance and dumb luck and that all you saw before you nearly hit the ground was brought on by intense fright, or you could choose to follow Jesus.Because, you see, the entirety of a relationship with anyone, is based on choice. You dont immediately believe that your husband or wife is going to be the best for you. You dont innitially walk up to someone and think to yourself, this person will always be my best friend and never do anything to hurt me and I can trust them entirely. You never walk into your place of employ and automatically know that your boss or some other fellow employee will turn out to be the nicest person youve ever met or the most royal pain. There is a choice to be made. You either trust, or you dont. You either choose to have faith in them, or you dont. You give them your time, or you dont. God is the same way. On a night I can remember as clearly as if it were yesterday though the date happens to be April 30th of 2014, I decided to follow Jesus because a man came up to me and said, I dont know what youre going through, but I promise you that you dont have to go through it alone. You are incredulous, your mind is a firm one full of ideas and perspectives. You are inteligent, rational, reasonable, well educated and eager to learn more, and all you currently know suggests to you that all you have heard within these wals could be a huge lye. I had a choice to make. Tell me now, reader, which is the easiest of the two, walking out of this church away from this man who has no clue about me and who might possibly have no clue what he is saying, or following Jesus?In one of the most notable and powerful messages ever given on Jesus Christ, S. M. Lockridge atempted to give an eloquent description of a king as he knew him. The bible says he is the king of the jews. He is the king of Israel. Hes
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Heres an interesting question Id like to see answered by those who say they would follow God if he personally presented himself, and I made this question of my own self a year ago just before becoming a Christian, which is why I dont feel any hesitation asking it.Think about this seriously for just a second and honestly tell me that you would follow Jesus if Jesus came to you and said he was Jesus? What stops him from being Satan? What stops him from being an evil apparition trying to deceive you? What prevents him from simply being a figment of your imagination and you possibly losing your mind? You could ask him questions, sure. You could even atempt to gauge by the responses he gives that he is in fact the son of God, but how would you truly know, and why would you honestly believe his answers so quickly if he has left you evidence before and you did not believe? Would you suddenly believe it if he told you bladestorm or Nocturnus was right? Would you believe him if he said to you that everything you heard on a forum on a website called audiogames net was true? Would you honestly be able to throw away all your rationality, all of your reasonability and all of the evidence you have previously been presented with against him just to follow him?I think not; you would still have to decide. You wouldnt be forced into it; he wouldnt make you come along and subject you to torture if you didnt. If the rapture occured tomorrow and billions of Christians disappeared from their homes and from business establishments in which they work, you would still have a choice to make. If God spoke to everyone through a giant cloud that suddenly covered all of the heavens, darkening everything the eye could see, you would still have a choice to make. If God presented you with a check today containing more than a million dollars and it were signed by him in suc h a way that no computer could read said signature but you clearly could and so could anyone else at the bank you went to cash it in at, you would still have a choice to make. If he saved you from falling off a cliff just before you hit the ground by extending a visible hand through the air and said, follow me son, daughter, I love you, I want you, I cherish you more than you could ever imagine and I want to save your soul from eternal damnation, and all you need do is follow me, just follow me, please, follow me, you would still have a choice to make. You could choose to suggest that a strange phenomena is responsible for the disappearance of billions in the case of the rapture, could choose to believe your vision and your hearing were playing tricks on you as the result of fear and that you misheard the entire thing or that it in fact did not exist and that everyone around you is deluding themselves and that there never was a cloud, or that said cloud could be explaine d away scientifically but that it would take thousands of years to pinpoint its origin, might choose to believe that the check was a huge hoax, could choose to believe that you managed to escape the fall by shere chance and dumb luck and that all you saw before you nearly hit the ground was brought on by intense fright, or you could choose to follow Jesus.Because, you see, the entirety of a relationship with anyone, is based on choice. You dont immediately believe that your husband or wife is going to be the best for you. You dont innitially walk up to someone and think to yourself, this person will always be my best friend and never do anything to hurt me and I can trust them entirely. You never walk into your place of employ and automatically know that your boss or some other fellow employee will turn out to be the nicest person youve ever met or the most royal pain. There is a choice to be made. You either trust, or you dont. You either choose to have faith in them, or you dont. You give them your time, or you dont. God is the same way. On a night I can remember as clearly as if it were yesterday though the date happens to be April 30th of 2014, I decided to follow Jesus because a man came up to me and said, I dont know what youre going through, but I promise you that you dont have to go through it alone. You are incredulous, your mind is a firm one full of ideas and perspectives. You are inteligent, rational, reasonable, well educated and eager to learn more, and all you currently know suggests to you that all you have heard within these wals could be a huge lye. I had a choice to make. Tell me now, reader, which is the easiest of the two, walking out of this church away from this man who has no clue about me and who might possibly have no clue what he is saying, or following Jesus?In one of the most notable and powerful messages ever given on Jesus Christ, S. M. Lockridge atempted to give an eloquent description of a king as he knew him. The bible says he is the king of the jews. He is the king of Israel. Hes
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi Bladestorm,As for the Mahdi, I believe he is true and will come. Jesus will not be a lesser prophet, he will be the Caliph. Regarding Wahabis, not all of them are like that. There are good and bad ones amongst them. What you said can bear some weight. What I mean is, there are people who do claim to be Mahdi. Its not only from the Wahabis, but all across the Muslim world. The guy goes on Tv and essencially claims to be Mahdi, thus leading people astray.The thing about death really comes about the verses that deal with the kafirun disbelievers. In arabic, kafir has two meanings. 1. Too disbelieve, 2, to knowingly cover up truth with falsehood. So you could have a friendly kafir. What these extremist Brothers and Sisters dont really realise is that if Allah allowed men to marry Christians and Jews, why would then he allow us to kill them without provication accept for our conceived ideas? Whats also interesting is that Allah says regarding Christia n and Jewish women, nore take them as secret concubins. So it is clear that once youre married with them, they have the same rights a Muslim Wife would have. Now there are several reasons why this ignorance exists, and has lead to the growth of organisations like Isis.1. Islamic websites. There are really bad ones out there, like Islamca, that promote this sort of thing.2. Parents. It is the responsibility of the Mother and Father to educate the children in the religion, although most of it is best to do by the Mother since the Mother shares a connection with the child that the Father does not have, therefore she can understand her child better and adapt her teaching. Unfortunately, parents sit 24 7 watching Tv,, not praying, and let their children get to their own devices, which, as anyone knows, is bad parenting. Tv should only be watched for a bit.3. Family influences. The thing about this kind of family is that they indoctrinate children with these damaging beliefs from a young age.4. Ignorance. People dont read the Quran properly. You cant just understand the Quran by reading it. And thats with any religious book. You need to read a comintary. For the Quran I suggest read Tafsir Ibn Kathir, its online and free of charge and very good. Ignorance also means making the wrong sort of friends, whom can influence the person.What these Muslims dont realise is that Abu-Talib, the uncle of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W, was a non believer, yet the Prophet S.A.W loved him.Hope this helps. Remember, it wwould better to ask a good Sheikh such as Sheikh Hasan Ali. They know the Quran better than I do and I only know some of it, so I dont want to say the wrong thing. If you live in the Uk it would be easy to attend his lectures provided theyre not too far away. Check his facebook regularly, he regularly posts where his new lectures bsp; will be. Additionally, if you want to get in contact with him, ask Ebrahim collige (just type it into google.) You might be able to contacct him through Hikma online. Dont expect an immediate response because these institutions are quite busy. And the staff may be on holiday. Give it a few weeks before resending the email and hopefully theyll reply. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=226256#p226256 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Thunderfist, Im curious to know what you think of this:http://www.666soon.com/is_the_mahdi_con … the_an.htmIf youre one, like me, who holds the primary text of your religion as inspired and considers any external text to be subject to error, that is acceptable to me. This seems to be where a lot of fanaticism in some of the muslam cults, like the Wahabi Death cults, comes from though.AlexN, I never said you were going to hell. If you believe that Jesus died for your sins, that you are saved by his blood, then you are going to heaven. The only way to heaven is by the blood of Christ. Whatever anyone believes beyond that is irrelivent regarding getting to heaven, but could have some bearing on their relationship with Christ.Tward, you have a good point about some parts of religion being subjective. In Christianity, this comes into play in deciding whether or not you will follow Christ by faith. God will never give us 100% proof of his existence, hes given us enough to take a leap of faith. Anymore than that and we wouldnt follow him out of love, wed try to follow him out of fear of going to hell. I also know, and know of people, who say that even if we could prove unconditionally, in a court of law, that Christ was real, they still wouldnt follow him.Though I see your viewpoint as very selfish, a viewpoint I would have backed 100% a year ago, I can not disagree with it or argue against it. I can argue that there are proofs for the bible. In the class Im taking right now, the professor says that people say you cant prove the bible, but you can, if you do your homework. He then goes on to show us many authenticating methods given to us by God to prove that the text is by design, alongside scientific evidences. However, you made the choice not to follow Christ, because he did not serve you in exactly the way you wanted, at exactly the time you wanted. Thats not who the God of the universe is. He isnt a God that caters to our every whim, like a Santa Claus in the sky. He is a God who knows what is best for us at all times and is in absolute control, even going so far as to say that he will have mercy on those who he will have mercy, and he will harden those who he will harden. I can think of any number of good reasons why God made me blind, and I used to hate him for doing that. Primarily, it gives me the chance to spread his good news to you all, whereas had I full use of my sight, it seems unlikely, though not impossible, that I would have given this forum a thought. I also have a great testimony to share with people when I tell them what God has done in my life.If your following Christ is determinate upon him completely healing you, then I fear you may be disappointed, though I will pray that it happens. The thing to remember is that God does according to his will, not according to ours. And while we might say that it would be more loving to save those who follow him from consequences such as going blind, we, being under a curse, do not know what true love is. The way I see it, he already did enough for us in opening the path to eternal life for us, there really isnt anything that bad he can do to our temporary shells while we wait for the day when we get to go and be with him. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=226215#p226215 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Sorry, minor correction. Jesus will return from a place that Allah has taken him to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224978#p224978 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Well, even though I come at this from a scientific viewpoint I do not in fact believe that science can disprove the existence of God any more than Christians can prove the existence of God. I just do not think the evidence is strong enough to be certain one way or another. I am pretty sure if there were a 100% reliable way for testing and disproving the existence of God the very vocal atheists like Richard Dawkins would beat Christians over the head with it every chance they got. I have read some of Richard Dawkins books and while interesting from an atheistic viewpoint they arent full of evidence that can absolutely prove there is no God with any certainty. It is for that reason I feel the best answer to a question like this is an agnostic one. That is to say the evidence as it currently stands is uncertain, and the best answer is we dont know for sure one way or another as far as empirical evidence goes. What I can say is at the end of the day what we have to d o as people is make an educated guess, a subjective opinion, on the matter based on what evidence we do have and what makes sense to us.That said, it isnt that simple. Most people, including myself, do not make decisions on evidence or rationality alone. We are emotional beings with thoughts, feelings, and a personal sense of self which makes us decide matters like this from a more emotional viewpoint than a rational evidence based viewpoint. For example, in this thread I have read a few messages that express the opinion that life without God is pointless. If science could disprove the existence of God that would make us worthless, make everything pointless, and totally meaningless. This is not the first time I have heard such arguments for God. They arent the kind of arguments one can fight with evidence because those are subjective viewpoints based on a way a person feels, and what it would mean to that person if God were suddenly removed from their lives or could be proven to be false. Therefore that persons beliefs are justified from an emotional standpoint because he or she has a lot of their personal state of mind invested in that belief. Right, wrong, or otherwise it is an emotional attachment to the belief that cant be proven true or false based on evidence.However, Christians arent the only ones who make judgments based on emotion. Im pretty sure the majority of agnostics, atheists, and humanists have emotional reasons for disbelieving in God. I cant speak for every single one of them, but I can speak for myself.I have to say my deconversion, if we can call it that, really began when I was around age 7. When I was 7 I started having terrible headaches and began losing the sight in my left eye. Of course, everyone I knew friends, family, ministers, etc were all Christians and they did what Christians always do in such times of trouble. They encouraged me to keep the faith, to pray, an d God would make things better. Instead of receiving some miraculous healing my medical condition worsened. In a few years I lost the sight in my right eye. No matter how much I prayed, my family prayed, or anyone else prayed my conditioned continued to get worse. The doctors couldnt do anything for me and God, if he existed, seemed to totally ignore me completely. I can remember nights praying for a healing, begging, pleading, and even crying and nothing ever came of it.To make a long story short by the time I went to college and began to encounter agnostics, atheists, and other non-Christians they didnt exactly have to twist my arm to convince me there was no god. After all, I had been praying for years and years for some divine intervention with none forthcoming. It made rational sense to me if there was no god, that all I had been told was a lie, that he could not or would not heal me. He simply did not exist. It made much more sense than the various explanati on my family, friends, and ministers would give me when I ask them why God wasnt healing me. All their answers just seemed like a bunch of excuses than explanations.The bottom line here is this. I dont believe God exists because I was a believer, grew up a believer, but when the chips were down, when I really and truly needed help from God, he was not there. He didnt do anything for me. Why should I believe in or worship a God who can not or will not be there for someone in his or her greatest hour of need?I realize my reasons are pretty subjective. They dont prove anything in a scientific sense. However, as far as personal proof goes I have all the evidence I need to pretty much conclude religion is a sham. If someone wants to prove me wrong let him or her give me my sight back, give me my hearing back, and correct everything else that is wrong with my failing body and then we can talk about the existence of God. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224972#p224972
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Bladestorm,Not sure where you read about Jesus being the leutennant of Muhammad S.A.W but thats not true. Basicly the truth is this. At the end of time, Dajjal, also known as the false masiah, will claim to be Allah and a great war will be waged against the Muslims. Imam Muhammad Al-Mahdi will be our caliph at that time. The Muslims will go out at that time and will fight the Dajjal Insha Allah, accept those who are staying in Mecka and Madinah. Those will be the two protected places from his evil on the face of the earth. Whenever he tries to approach them, angels will draw swords against him and he will be forced to flee. Eventually, Jesus piece be upon him will come from heaven and kill the Dajjal himself with a speare. After that, Allah will tell us Muslims I have made nations that none of you ccan fight against. Gog and Maggog will break from their trap. Basicly King Dul Carnain, the friend of Ibrahim piece be upon him, built this wall made from molte n metal if I remember correctly to keep those two tribes out, for they were causing problems. As we speak, these two tribes are working their socks off trying to pound the wall, saying Insha Allah. The next day, Allah repairs the whole. However he eventually lets them through and they will cause mischief in the earth. Many people will be led to hell. Jesus piece be upon him will go to a mountain with his companions and pray to Allah, and Allah will destroy them. After that piece will remain until Jesus As dies. The Mahdi will be an adviser to Jesus As. In fact, in a Hadith, the world will be so pieceful that a girl will run at a lion and the lion wont even harm her.Best regards,Thunderfist. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224976#p224976 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Im not really sure what your quotations from Jesus were supposed to prove, but needless to say, I knew about and agree with all of them. What hes basically saying is, its not how good a person you are, its whether or not you choose to follow him on the one pathway to heaven he created, knowing that only he can lead you down that path. No, we dont know whether or not the criminals were religious or what religion they might have been. We do know this, however. That one of them accepted Jesus as lord just before he died, and thus was a Christian and went to be with Jesus in paradise. The centurian amuses me, since the Israelites are Gods chosen people, and yet Christ says that nowhere in all of Israel has he seen such great faith as in that centurian. Just goes to show you how far man has fallen and what happens when they realize that.As to God existing before and after time, thats assuming God is subject to time, which is incorrect. He created time, therefore, he is outside the space time domain. Therefore, he will not cease to exist when time ceases to exist, neither will those who are saved and will spend eternity with him. He will create a new heaven and a new earth.The big bounce has already been refuted by lack of antigravity forces that have never been observed:https://sites.google.com/site/gss12m33/ … unce-modelWhile that website says that the theory can neither be verified nor nullified, I think that lack of the proper forces or conditions to support said theory pretty well nullifies it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224948#p224948 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Im not really sure what your quotations from Jesus were supposed to prove, but needless to say, I knew about and agree with all of them. What hes basically saying is, its not how good a person you are, its whether or not you choose to follow him on the one pathway to heaven he created, knowing that only he can lead you down that path. No, we dont know whether or not the criminals were religious or what religion they might have been. We do know this, however. That one of them accepted Jesus as lord just before he died, and thus was a Christian and went to be with Jesus in paradise. The centurian amuses me, since the Israelites are Gods chosen people, and yet Christ says that nowhere in all of Israel has he seen such great faith as in that centurian. Just goes to show you how far man has fallen and what happens when they realize that. There are other examples of Jesus dealing favorably with gentiles, such as the woman that asked for her child to be healed:Mark7The Syrophoenician Womans Faith24 And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon.[g] And he entered a house and did not want anyone to know, yet he could not be hidden. 25 But immediately a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard of him and came and fell down at his feet. 26 Now the woman was a Gentile, a Syrophoenician by birth. And she begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. 27 And he said to her, “Let the children be fed first, for it is not right to take the childrens bread and throw it to the dogs.” 28 But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the childrens crumbs.” 29 And he said to her, “For this statement you may go your way; the demon has left your daughter.” 30 And she went home and found the child lying in bed and the demon gone.The entire goal of Christ was to bring salvation to the gentiles and show them how they were supposed to be living and worshiping as the jews had been, not to say that every way is correct as long as you put the name of Jesus in it. The muslams, for example, believe in a very different Jesus. As far as I know, their Jesus was simply a good man who will be the lieutenant of Muhammid when he returns during the caliphate. This is not a Jesus of peace, but instead a Jesus of war, one who executes those who do not follow Ala. The Mormons believe that Jesus was just another creation, though a perfect, sinless one, and thus they put more stock in works than they do in the saving grace of Christ. Neither of these two viewpoints are correct, according to Christ or his apostles. Paul says that we are saved by faith alone and that our works justify our faith by showing it as active. That is the way to heaven, to have faith in Christ as the son of God, believing that he is equal with God, that is, he and God are one and the same, and to ask him for forgiveness of your sins. The criminal on the cross did exactly that, despite his past, and thus, is now in paradise with Jesus.As to God existing before and after time, thats assuming God is subject to time, which is incorrect. He created time, therefore, he is outside the space time domain. Therefore, he will not cease to exist when time ceases to exist, neither will those who are saved and will spend eternity with him. He will create a new heaven and a new earth.The big bounce has already been refuted by lack of antigravity forces that have never been observed:https://sites.google.com/site/gss12m33/ … unce-modelWhile that website says that the theory can neither be verified nor nullified, I think that lack of the proper forces or conditions to support said theory pretty well nullifies it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224948#p224948 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_IslamYour statement about Jesus saying that Muslims are wrong just confused me a bit, and when I read those quotes I cant really imagine him saying that either, unless he changes his mind from day to day.And while the big bounce cant be proven or disproved I mainly sent you in that direction as a suggestion on how to solve the problem you brought up.I havent really seen any proper forces or conditions for the claim that Earth is only 6000 years old either though. I have, on the other hand, seen plenty of Things pointing in the 4.5 billion years direction instead.I watched a debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham yesterday, if you havent done that too, I can recommend it though its about three or so hours long. Ham never really gave any solid proofs to back up his claim. Instead he kept pointing to his own interpretation of the Bible, a book that has went through a myriad of translations, editions and rewritings throughout the last two to three mellinia... I think the safest option would be to agree on disagreeing. We both know what we believe in. Although Id gladly change my believe if the right proofs were presented. I cant for example see what stops God from sending a new son to us. Im sure we can agree that the World is still filled with sin, probably more now than on Jesus time.Another thing is... We agree on the fact that Jesus took our sins on his own shoulders and gave us forgiveness and what not... If it is a sin to not believe in him, then why do I still go to Hell? Unless it of course was only the sins from the Fall and up till Jesus death, in which case I cant really see why it needs to be mentioned since it doesnt affect us all that much. Yes, we know he had that ability and Thus we should pray to him... But if its just that, then it would fit bet ter as just a mere side comment. Because of that Ill asume that it is all sin from whatever time you pick. Then Again, I guess I am going to Heaven anyway, Im both baptised and confirmed, so I should be fine. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224963#p224963 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? SpiralingWyvern, I never said muslams were wrong, Jesus said that. I was simply confirming his words. As to people altering the text of the bible, it has been tried. Cults have been formed, bibles have been burned and outlawed, humans have attempted to modify the text of Gods holy word. Yet the bible, backed by over 24000 manuscripts, both whole and fragmented, for the new testament alone, remains unchanged, and the dead sea scrolls let us confirm the old testament.AlexN, I never said mutations couldnt be observed, I said evolution. That is, constant benefitial mutation. I also said that while a mutation can be benefitial, it comes at a price. When fruit flies are mutated through experiment simulating thousands of generations, while they may be able to adapt to a new environment, when they are put back in their old environment, they die very quickly. Researchers are finding this with mutated viruses as well. As they adapt to new conditions and new antibiotics, often times they lose the ability to survive in their old environments or fight back against the old antibiotics. While viruses may be getting stronger in terms of surviving in the human body, they then lose things like the ability to survive outside the body for long periods of time, or the ability to spread via airborn travel.I also never said things couldnt happen by random chance, mathematics speaks for itself there. As I said before, why is it that evolution is the only field of study where something can be created at random? You dont go to a junkyard and expect a car to be assembled for you out of spare parts, so why is it so believable that random elements in the universe violently reacted to each other and somehow created intelligent life? As for the universe being god, then what created the universe? Only the god of the bible makes a claim to being eternal, that is, he existed eternally before the creation of the universe, and will exist afterword eternally. So God doesnt need a creator, whereas a finite universe would certainly need a beginning cause. Either God is that beginning cause, or there is somehow an infinite chain of cause and effect going back indefinitely, and that invalidates the scientific law of cause and effect because there would be no beginning cause.I have actually been posting evidence in the form of links, such as:www.khouse.orgwww.icr.organdwww.carm.orgIve also given you books, which I respect far more than websites, and even an evidential movie to examine. Since I do not feel comfortable posting exerpts from books, however, here are some websites that I think have done some respectable research:https://carm.org/questions/archaeologic … cal-citieshttps://carm.org/manuscript-evidencehttps://carm.org/non-biblical-accounts- … -or-peoplehttps://carm.org/can-trust-new-testamen … l-documenthttps://carm.org/hasnt-bible-been-rewri … it-anymorehttps://carm.org/secular-movements/evol … icial-madehttps://carm.org/charles-darwin-on-the-human-eyehttps://carm.org/secular-movements/evol … le-complexhttps://carm.org/brain-evolvehttps://carm.org/secular-movements/evol … n-bacteriaMore from carm here:https://carm.org/evidence-and-answershttps://carm.org/evolutionOther evidentiary links:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stelehttp://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/sc … -to-exist/http://www.khouse.org/articles/2014/1183/http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scienti … bible.htmlhttp://www.khouse.org/enews_article/2013/2184/Please note that while I may agree with these specific parts of these websites, in no way do I agree with everything that is stated by their respective authors.It is also important for me to note that while evidence can be very useful, it is ultimately the word of Jesus Christ that must be heard, and not fallible scientific facts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224819#p224819 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? SpiralingWyvern, I never said muslams were wrong, Jesus said that. I was simply confirming his words. As to people altering the text of the bible, it has been tried. Cults have been formed, bibles have been burned and outlawed, humans have attempted to modify the text of Gods holy word. Yet the bible, backed by over 24000 manuscripts, both whole and fragmented, for the new testament alone, remains unchanged, and the dead sea scrolls let us confirm the old testament.AlexN, I never said mutations couldnt be observed, I said evolution. That is, constant benefitial mutation. I also said that while a mutation can be benefitial, it comes at a price. When fruit flies are mutated through experiment simulating thousands of generations, while they may be able to adapt to a new environment, when they are put back in their old environment or the old fruit flies are introduced to the new environment, they die very quickly. Researchers are finding this with mutated viruses as well. As they adapt to new conditions and new antibiotics, often times they lose the ability to survive in their old environments or fight back against the old antibiotics. While viruses may be getting stronger in terms of surviving in the human body, they then lose things like the ability to survive outside the body for long periods of time, or the ability to spread via airborn travel.I also never said things couldnt happen by random chance, mathematics speaks for itself there. I do happen to believe that things dont happen by random chance, but thats because the bible tells me that God guides everything in proverbs where it says, the lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is guided by the lord. As I said before, why is it that evolution is the only field of study where something can be created at random? You dont go to a junkyard and expect a car to be assembled for you out of spare parts, so why is it so believable that random elements in the universe violently reacted to each other and somehow created intelligent life? As for the universe being god, then what created the universe? Only the god of the bible makes a claim to being eternal, that is, he existed eternally before the creation of the universe, and will exist afterword eternally. So God doesnt need a creator, whereas a finite universe would certainly need a beginning cause. Either God is that beginning cause, or there is somehow an infinite chain of cause and effect going back indefinitely, and that invalidates the scientific law of cause and effect because there would be no beginning cause.I have actually been posting evidence in the form of links, such as:www.khouse.orgwww.icr.organdwww.carm.orgIve also given you books, which I respect far more than websites, and even an evidential movie to examine. Since I do not feel comfortable posting exerpts from books, however, here are some websites that I think have done some respectable research:https://carm.org/questions/archaeologic … cal-citieshttps://carm.org/manuscript-evidencehttps://carm.org/non-biblical-accounts- … -or-peoplehttps://carm.org/can-trust-new-testamen … l-documenthttps://carm.org/hasnt-bible-been-rewri … it-anymorehttps://carm.org/secular-movements/evol … icial-madehttps://carm.org/charles-darwin-on-the-human-eyehttps://carm.org/secular-movements/evol … le-complexhttps://carm.org/brain-evolvehttps://carm.org/secular-movements/evol … n-bacteriaMore from carm here:https://carm.org/evidence-and-answershttps://carm.org/evolutionOther evidentiary links:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stelehttp://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/sc … -to-exist/http://www.khouse.org/articles/2014/1183/http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scienti … bible.htmlhttp://www.khouse.org/enews_article/2013/2184/Please note that while I may agree with these specific parts of these websites, in no way do I agree with everything that is stated by their respective authors.It is also important for me to note that while evidence can be very useful, it is ultimately the word of Jesus Christ that must be heard, and not fallible scientific facts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224819#p224819 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Im setting myself up for ridicule, but, I stand as a Christian. My beliefs ae not based on science, but on a deep seeded faith that there is a God and that for me, *for me*, He is very real. Ive seen evidences in my own life, and those are good enough for me. According to science, I shouldnt even be alive. I was born at mid term in my mothers pregnancy over 40 years ago weighing in at less than 2 pounds. I am a healthy and sound individual with only my blindness as a result. Ive seen food appear on my porch when mmy folks were worried about where that food was going to come from. A person brought it, but, I believe that God lead them to do so. I could argue but, I think it is not a matter for argument, but a choice of what one chooses to believe. I will not condemn another for what one believes, nor will I say what you believe is wrong. I just know what I believe, and it is the right choice f or me. In so saying, I wish all of you a very blessed day. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224822#p224822 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? bladestorm360 wrote:SpiralingWyvern, I never said muslams were wrong, Jesus said that. I was simply confirming his words.Lets look at some of the stuff that Jesus said... This one is to a Roman dude, certainly not a Jew or Christian:Matthew 8:5-13New International Version (NIV)The Faith of the Centurion5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help.6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed.9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.And Again on the cross. Keep in mind that we have no idea what religion, if any, these criminals were leaning towards:32 Two other men, both criminals, were also led out with him to be executed.33 When they came to the place called the Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left.34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”[c] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”36 The soldiers also came up and mocked him. They offered him wine vinegar37 and said, “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.”38 There was a written notice above him, which read: this is the king of the jews.39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”And here, a last one, where it, to me, sounds like hes quite open to whatever form of way you choose to follow him as long as your intentions are good:John 4New International Version (NIV)Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.4 Now he had to go through Samaria.5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph.6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?”8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water?12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”17 “I have no husband,” she replied.Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband.18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet.20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Druv, Im afraid youve missed the point of what Jesus did. In no way does Jesus restrict your will. You see, choosing to follow God is not like picking a meal from a Macdonnalds menu. It is like planning a trip. If you want to go to London England, but you get on a plane to Sidney Australia instead, you arent going to end up in London no matter what you believe or what you do after that. If you want to play Alter Aeon, there is only one way to connect to that mud, and you wont get to alter by connecting to any other IP address or hostname. This is how it works with Christianity as well. We are free to choose whatever we want, the bible even says so. Joshua, one of Gods great military leaders, essentially said to the people he was leading, choose who you will follow this day, be it the gods of the amarites or any other idols around. But my household and I choose to serve the lord. That does not mean that our choice necessarily means an ything other than that weve made the wrong choice, but it certainly doesnt bely the fact that we are free to make any choice we want. Jesus says that his sheep will hear and recognize his voice. When that happens, we freely choose to follow him, not to restrict our wills, but because of what he has done for us.As an aside, you can follow God and science at the same time, as long as youre being objective:www.khouse.orgAlexN, my problem with your hypothesis, and the hypothesis of Carl Sagan, is that it would mean that nature is somehow intelligent enough to create intelligence, or that intelligence was created by accident. I described earlier how unlikely the idea that any species formed by accident is.SpiralingWyvern, my problem with your theory is that youre assuming that God spoke to humans and then left it up to them to write down his words, thus leaving the word of God fallible to human error. In one of his letters to Timothy, Paul says that all of scripture is God breathed, or inspired. What that means is that God found willing human subjects and essentially channeled his will through them, so that his words would be written down perfectly and 100% accurately. The new testament can be backed up with some 24000 manuscripts, all of which differ only in copiest errors such as slips of the pen, or spelling. When literal translations of the bible are made in modern times, even they are essentially the same in wording, though it does get a little messier with paraphrases. That is why I always study a literal translation, like the English standard version, or Youngs Literal Translation. No doctrine has been changed in the thousands of years that the bible has been around, nor is it going to. As Christ said, not one jot nor tittle of the law shall disappear until these things have come to pass.Thunderfist, those are essentially the same virtues of Christianity, the difference being that we know that the virtues will not save us. We have those virtues only through Jesus Christ, as we strive to be like him. While I have definite respect for the sincerity of the faith of many muslams, it is very possible to be sincerely wrong. Since the bible can be backed up using history, archaeology and many other fields of science, I have to believe Jesus when he said that he is the way, the truth and the life. Noone comes to the father accept through him. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224772#p224772 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @Bladestorm: You never considered viewing the universe itself as God then? That surely would make it intelligent enough to create life.Also, when you take the vast size of the universe into consideration, along with how long it has existed... Im talking about more than ten thousand years, I cant really see how its such a miracle. The only reason I can think of for thinking that life is such a great miracle is because we can reason. The problem I have with your hypothesis is that youre asuming that there must be a reaning to our existence and that Things cant just happen by random chance. Thats your choice though, and of course youre free to do so And if were talking impirical evidence, I dont think evolution can be tested either. Science can easily find evidence of species mutating, but mutations are almost always bad and even perceived benefitial ones are at the cost of something else. If someone is told when their wife is pregnant that their baby has a mutation, no one ever asks, oh, is it a good one? Therefore, mutation can not be how we would have evolved, if thats how it had happened.I would love to know where you have gotten the idea of mutations always being bad from. Sure, some most likely havent been the best ones, and have therefore been sorted out through the natural selection. The ones that mutated in a benefitial direction naturally had better chances of surviving. You keep talking about archeological and historical evidence that backs up your claims too, I cant recall you showing any of these.Further more youre saying that evolution, and with that mutations, cant be observed directly. Do I even need to say anything here? To be honest I dont even know what to say, so Ill just throw you another link... Why should I say something others have already written so nicely: http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … eationist/ URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224785#p224785 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Druv, Im afraid youve missed the point of what Jesus did. In no way does Jesus restrict your will. You see, choosing to follow God is not like picking a meal from a Macdonnalds menu. It is like planning a trip. If you want to go to London England, but you get on a plane to Sidney Australia instead, you arent going to end up in London no matter what you believe or what you do after that. If you want to play Alter Aeon, there is only one way to connect to that mud, and you wont get to alter by connecting to any other IP address or hostname. This is how it works with Christianity as well. We are free to choose whatever we want, the bible even says so. Joshua, one of Gods great military leaders, essentially said to the people he was leading, choose who you will follow this day, be it the gods of the amarites or any other idols around. But my household and I choose to serve the lord. That does not mean that our choice necessarily means an ything other than that weve made the wrong choice, but it certainly doesnt bely the fact that we are free to make any choice we want. Jesus says that his sheep will hear and recognize his voice. When that happens, we freely choose to follow him, not to restrict our wills, but because of what he has done for us.As an aside, you can follow God and science at the same time, as long as youre being objective:www.khouse.orgAlexN, my problem with your hypothesis, and the hypothesis of Carl Sagan, is that it would mean that nature is somehow intelligent enough to create intelligence, or that intelligence was created by accident. I described earlier how unlikely the idea that any species formed by accident is.SpiralingWyvern, my problem with your theory is that youre assuming that God spoke to humans and then left it up to them to write down his words, thus leaving the word of God fallible to human error. In one of his letters to Timothy, Paul says that all of scripture is God breathed, or inspired. What that means is that God found willing human subjects and essentially channeled his will through them, so that his words would be written down perfectly and 100% accurately. The new testament can be backed up with some 24000 manuscripts, all of which differ only in copiest errors such as slips of the pen, or spelling. When literal translations of the bible are made in modern times, even they are essentially the same in wording, though it does get a little messier with paraphrases. That is why I always study a literal translation, like the English standard version, or Youngs Literal Translation. No doctrine has been changed in the thousands of years that the bible has been around, nor is it going to. As Christ said, not one jot nor tittle of the law shall disappear until these things have come to pass. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224772#p224772 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
2015-07-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Spiraling Wyvern via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? The irony of the last post is that you can change the words of the last part and related names, and get the same message if we used Islam. Also the explaination kind of doesnt leave the texts in the possibility of human interference after the fact of being written. As humans not the people who were writing, we cannot just say God breathed through all of them. In fac,t its slightly a bit more damaging if only a few writers were not fully written by God, or were just lying to get points across (Theres a lot of political messages in the Bible as much as there is the word of the lord). Sadly, this is probably the most impossible thing for anyone to prove with all the writters being long dead. (For all I know, the Bible is probably Gods way of determining if anyone can truly understand his word...or it could be just a book a bunch of people making the World greatest controlling medium). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224782#p224782 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
2015-07-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Spiraling Wyvern via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Erm, the only issue of that answer for me is that it does give an explaination to followers on the authors being true, but theres stillt he question if it was not interfered with and altered by others or by the author itself after the fact for some reason. Considering some of the texts that could of been in the bible were left out for varios political, or contrary beliefs, there is human influence on the book that can muddy the text a bit. However, still reading through it, I do get a message built together that is fairly consistently formed, but uh, the text does have oddities. For all I know that is intentional and means something buteh. Back to reading again. Also, we cannot just say Musims are wrong just like that. It is kind of diving into the same methods some people dismiss Christianity with due to lack of actual artifacts and accurate historical information. Also Islam probably also has its share of historica l information and digs that support some of their claims just as much. (Also better combat edicate apparently with captured lands on their crusades back in the past, thats a plus for them honestly for those who actually keep to their virtues instead of applying/disapplying it by will). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224783#p224783 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi Druv,These are some of the vertues of a Muslim. Since you said youll kindly listen, Ill share them with you. Even if you still dont want to become Muslim after this, you could start to implament these vertues in life, because Islam not only lays down religious obligations but also gives us day to day vertues. Id erge you to read the Quran and read a reliable comintary, Ibn Kathirs RA one being a good one to redd. That said, dont take this as me trying to preech onto you, Im only doing my mission to Allah as best as I can by showing what is the truth. The choice, as you said, is yours, and if you turn around and say I dont want to practice these vertues, Ill leave you to it, because Im not responsible over you. Here are the vertues.1. To believe that Allah is one and perform what is obligated upon you.2. To have good edikit. If a person is a backbighter, a lier, Allah wont accept the ir worship because worship is to better the human self.3. To aim for the highest in everything.4. To show patience and self restraint. For example, if your friend angers you, to sit down if youre standing, to lie down if youre sitting, and to take an ablution if that doesnt work too. Since youre not Muslim, Ill say to you take a bath or just wash your face with water.5. To be greatful for what you have, and look as those who dont have as much as you.6. To wake up in the early morning, around morning prayer. Now this could be at 2, 3, 4 oclock or any other time depending on where you are. I know you dont pray so instead you could get on with work or something. In fact, the most successful people statisticly wake up early in the morning.7. To chill out and enjoy.These are a few of the vertuesBest regards,Thunderfist. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224637#p224637 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
2015-07-17
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Spiraling Wyvern via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Honestly, the reason I tend to find the idea the world is only 1 years old come on a few things that probably would not exactly make sense within a small timeline: First, despite what you may think on the carbon dating method in detemrinig how long ago something existed, apparently a large number of creatures existed, and died within a small timeframe. Also if human origins existed within that set of 1 years, most likely none of us would be having this discussion as wed probably would not be alive as a species. Despite what one might think on evolution, how species interact with each other and invade tends to be a quite painfully observable thing. As much as our use of tactics and tools would of kept us over medium to slightly large creatures, considering dinosaur bones tend to be a thing, I would think if anyone tried making any civilization of some sort, they would of encountered these beasts, and most likely get ho rribly wrecked. Granted, we coul dof just formed societies more easily once the various other creatures died out but then one has to wonder what killed them all off so quickly to have an unusually large number of species be obliterated like that, and somehow not take us with it. Some ideas were put forward on what exactly whipped out the various creatures of certain timelines, and probably would of taken us with the rest. (Granted, the bible does put forward a lot of purging events where a few humans survived, maybe its version of representing how this could of be handled, but then we would find the aftermath of these events more easily if that was the case. Im pretty sure a story about a volcano erupting with enough force to send flaming mounds of ash and magma across the entire world, and plunge the world into a deadly smog is something survivable for a human, or mentioned in the Bible. (though as an opinion, having the skies lit up with f lames froma volcano or some force that can inact that that purged the lands except for a few someone decided to keep safe in a sanctuary would probably have been an epic story over a flood:P) though back to being serious The other issue I have with that concept is something someone mentioned to me when I was supposed to regard Gods text when reading. If I decided to take the word of the lord in a literal sense, at various points Im going to miss the entire point and most likely do a lot of harm if that was the case. As much as we do not understand Gods plan for everything, this most likely could spread to understanding his written words. And to a point, many contradictions within the Bible, and other holy books actually stem from human error as if one were to gather the words of the lord and write it down, uh, the exact wording could get muddied. God is the perfect being here, and we all have m istakes. Who knew accidently miswriting a date or a word could result in people being so divided down the line, or misunderstanding one concept over what might be intended, yet the message still can be understood if one were to think about all the inaccuracies, and all the other text that (to those who are religious) is true. Again, Im not an expert on religious studies or the various forms of Judism/Christianity/etc, but for all we know, over the thousands of years a God may of existed, we probably fucked up the original message a long while back. (the telephone affect which can be observed with a large crowd of people if you want to see how badly something can get mangled). For all I could understand, the world might not be 1 years old, but referring to something else as the world that is 1 years old (like mans arrival outside of the garden). Again, understanding the meaning of the text is something I believe is still an ongoing pr ocess for everyone. For all we know, making Christianity say things that are way too out there maybe a failure of our part, and something for a person to overcome to see the true message God would give. But then one doesnt quite fully grasp the true message and fumbles it up slightly and the process repeats for everyone. For all we know, the way everything was created was a lot more stream lined and less spectacular than what is given (but why would a perfect being need to over do it ) and like various other things that persist through the ages, tend to mutate and distort slightly. Or I can be completely off as I do not go into these things as deeply as I probably should and these various issues were settled long ago. but again, these issues were settled by humans so I maybe just created an infinite l oop for myself that Ill never get out of. Honestly my interpretation of God is that he was the random number god responsible for the Big Bang (if that is true or not is another discussion) as the probabilities of the explosion happening, forming materials, forming a certain set of planets in a certain position, more
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @Nocturnus:I liked your Little speech about the pointlessness of life... However, Im not sure I agree. Sure, at the first glance there is no point to living if we just fade away and die after a hundred years...The way I look at it though is, as Carl Sagan once said, We are ways for the cosmos to know itself. Since the atoms that make up our body, and everything around us for that matter, once were formed in the cores of stars, we are just as much part of the universe as the bacteria you mentioned, the waves of the ocean or stars we have yet to discover.The way I see it is not that life is pointless, it is instead, cosmos way to examine itself. I find joy in knowing that, somehow, nature made part of itself intelligent enough to question the Things around it, or... question itself I guess is actually the case...I guess you could say that I have my own Little pocket religion there, I dont know. I do know though that science, because of this, seems like a better choice, at least for me, since that will slowly give the answers we seek.One of these questions are of course how the World began. I cant answer that any better than anyone else, but there are quite a few theories about it so far. I guess I wont deny the existence of some kind of natural force that could have made the universe possible... I guess we could call this force God... I just dontbelieve that God is activily taking part in how its creations evolve. To be honest I lean more towards the thought of multiverses, not because its proven oranything, I dont think it is, but because it kind of makes sense to me...This post is getting long, so I guess Ill stop here. As a treat for reading all of this silly nonsense Ill throw you yet another link, this time its to a YouTube video that I like quite a bit: What is a God? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224308#p224308 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @Nocturnus:I liked your Little speech about the pointlessness of life... However, Im not sure I agree. Sure, at the first glance there is no point to living if we just fade away and die after a hundred years...The way I look at it though is, as Carl Sagan once said, We are ways for the cosmos to know itself. Since the atoms that make up our body, and everything around us for that matter, once were formed in the cores of stars, we are just as much part of the universe as the bacteria you mentioned, the waves of the ocean or stars we have yet to discover.The way I see it is not that life is pointless, it is instead, cosmos way to examine itself. I find joy in knowing that, somehow, nature made part of itself intelligent enough to question the Things around it, or... question itself I guess is actually the case...As for disappearing when we die... We dont really do that either. True, our consciousness most likely ceases to exist, but th e atoms that once were us will return to the nature and become part of other Things, and as you say, our memories live on in those we leave behind, although they shall fade away too eventually.I guess you could say that I have my own Little pocket religion here, I dont know. I do know though that science, because of this, seems like a better choice, at least for me, since that will slowly give the answers we seek.One of these questions are of course how the World began. I cant answer that any better than anyone else, but there are quite a few theories about it so far. I guess I wont deny the existence of some kind of natural force that could have made the universe possible... I guess we could call this force God... I just dontbelieve that God is activily taking part in how its creations evolve. To be honest I lean more towards the thought of multiverses, not because its proven oranything, I dont think it is, but because it kind of make s sense to me...This post is getting long, so I guess Ill stop here. As a treat for reading all of this silly nonsense Ill throw you yet another link, this time its to a YouTube video that I like quite a bit: What is a God? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224308#p224308 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? I sincerely thank bladestorm for post 101. So often we are perceived as wanting to have the last word on a subject when nothing could be further from the truth. We dont discuss with you the existence of God because we wish to anger you or challenge your belief system; we discuss the existence of God because we truly believe he exists. I have had to come to a conclusion as this discussion has progressed and am willing to admit it here and now, but before I do, I urge you to keep on reading after this admission, else you may mis something of the greatest importance. Skeptics and atheists ask for empirical proof on a regular basis. I am forced to conclude that yes, you are right, I cannot give it to you, anymore than you can give me empirical proof for the existence of King Tut. You may find evidence for his existence, can point to any number of archeological artifacts as evidence, but the truth is that you cannot assert it as proof of his ex istence. Evidence points to fact. Proof establishes a fact as undisputable truth. What you can do, is suggest that the amount of evidence favors the fact of his existence, just as I can do the same with God.So, let us go back to truth. The truth is that as far back as man can point, the concept of God has always existed in some form. The idea that a supreme creator exists makes sense to man, so much so that when man rejects God, he must inevitably choose to believe in something else, even science. The truth is that man must have something to believe in , even if that belief is in his own self and self importance. The truth is that man cannot go on living without something to believe in from the moment he first asks why. Why was I born? Why am I here? Why is the world the way it is? The answers to these questions provide a foundation for all that he does, a basis for all that he is, a backbone to support him and his decisions, the way he chooses to educate future generations. Everything he learns implicitly and explicitly governs everything from how he treats his fellow man to what he will allow to influence him. Should he stop asking why, I believe it is possible that something with in him has died.If you choose to believe that you have nothing certain in life to face other than your death, if you would rather choose to believe that you are the product of time and chance that culminates into accident which by some inexplicable circumstance obtained the capability to internalise, to rationalise and, yes, even to hypothesise when no other animal has been able to do so on our level, you are free to do so and I will not ever hold it against you. What you cannot do, is claim that such a mindset is anymore absurd than my own. You cannot by token of what you believe suggest that you have any more right to rule than the lion who lives in the jungle, or the most massiv e of whales living in the sea, or the golden eagle soaring through the sky, or even the bacteria living in countless petri dishes throughout the world. You are not significantly different than any of these organisms. Your existence, like theirs, will fade away to nothingness with your death. You will never be immortal or immortalized; your achievements shall only go as far as the people who wish to remember them, and they too will fade away, their lives a brief transition from oblivion into oblivion.Of course, I realize that it is possible to live with this idea without it scaring anyone whatsoever. I confess that if I were forced to accept such a thing as true I would be terrified, terrified because I am seeing it from a first person perspective, not as the death of someone else. I am seeing it as the ceasing of my own existence rather than looking at it from a third person perspective as the squashing of a fly or the slaughter of a pig. If what you say is true, the answers you have come up with do not entice me, do not hold any comfort for me, cannot bring me any happiness or joy, and apparently, they dont to most of humankind either. If happiness and joy are acts of human will, we are no closer to obtaining them with all that science has uncovered than weve ever been. That we are prisoners of meaninglessness and insignificance is cruel. That life is perhaps the biggest joke of all and that there is no point to living it is absurd. I cannot make a point if a point does not exist because I cannot pretend and, and I dont believe anyone else can, either. Ive heard people who proudly proclaim that, if you believe in nothing, you should find something to believe in. I humbly ask, why is this necessary? Why can we not exist without any belief? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224285#p224285 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hello,I do believe in the belief that we dont exist after we die. At all. Does it make my life pointless? absolutely. Whatever I do, unless Im like Einstein, will be forgotten and I will just not be in this world, anywhere. Or in any world. Even if Im like Einstein, someday the humans remembering me will die, and even the half-life I had in their memories, if we hold the belief that you can live on in peoples memories, will end. Assuredly, this is a hard concept to live with-why does my life matter? why do I exist? wouldnt it be better to die today than live a life that will lead to death anyway?I admittedly am still a teenager and havent faced any of lifes problems that people in their later years will. Maybe my beliefs will change then. But until then, I have the capacity to hold on to my beliefs because I have no reason to change my beliefs. I appreciate the fact that you believe in an extra-planar entity. Im sure if I was raised in a different environment, I would have too. My parents arent deeply religious so thats why I was free to choose what I was going to believe in, and I dont really believe in anything. Science is the highest candidate, because to my brain it can be understood, it can be proven. Isnt that what humankind wants? belief in an unquestionable, provable, rock-solid faith? So if I would believe in something, my highest candidate would be science.As to god, I cant comment on the existence or non-existence of it. I personally havent gotten any proof of its existence, but who am I to go against a good chunk of humanity who believes in religious texts?Anyways, what I mean to say is I wont be in any religion, but I dont dislike you for holding yours. I will even kindly listen to you if you tell me about the virtues of your religion. But, the choice is mine. According to Christianity I have been given free will, and if I can only go to heaven by following a person who restricts my will or tells me to believe in something, and if I dont it doesnt respect my choice-it sends me to hell, that is really the short end of free will I have gotten. So I apologize, no religion sounds right to me. Science isnt either, I admit that. Science has grown so much that if something cant be proven by science, it doesnt exist. These, at least, have the evidence of their existence. But, as I said, I do not have any proof of gods existence other than the religious texts, and it might be that there were a million religions back then and only a few survived. A one in a million chance, as it were. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224289#p224289 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings all.Bladestorm360, Ill keep what you said in mind about the religious people; thanks for that. Nocturnus, I do agree with you about the existence of God. To everyone else, lets hope that there is no solid proof against Gods existence. If there was then my very nature would compel me to reject it out of hand because to accept it would be truly repugnant. I would die of a broken heart and nothing and nobody could ever make me happy again. If that didnt happen then I would most likely turn evil because my very nature is evil. I do state freely that I was never an innocent at any point in my life and especially not as a baby. Without God, itll be down hill all the way because there would be nobody there at the other end to love me.Kind regards, Amin Abdullah. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224293#p224293 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? I will try to answer everything I intend to answer this time, as Ive been doing a pretty terrible job of that lately, lol.Firstly, thank you AlexN for those links, Ill definitely be checking those out as I love seeking scientific evidence that backs up my belief in Christ and reading any other evidence, contrary or otherwise, so that I can patch up holes in my belief system.SpiralingWyvern, youre absolutely right that society existed before Christianity, but certainly not before God. Even Judaism didnt exist until about 3 or 4000 years ago when God started guiding the Israelites. However, I as a Christian do not assume my source of morality is true over other sources, I back it up with evidence, such as historical and archaeological validations of scripture. Yes, there are prophetic validations of scripture as well, but as someone else pointed out, there are other supposed prophecies as well, and the bible even makes room for that when it says that if a prophecy comes true and the prophet who makes it says, come, let us go and follow other gods, that prophet is to be put to death. There are even claims of documented gods before the god of Christianity. The reason I accept Christianity as true over such religions as Mormonism, Gehovas witnesses or, branching out further, Taoism, Hinduism or islam, is because the bible, as far as my research has shown me, is the most historically, archaeologically and scientifically validated of any other religious text. Some would claim it is the most well-validated book in history, though I dont quite have enough evidence to back that claim yet.Severestormsteve, first of all let me welcome you into the family, brother. Im glad to know youve started following Jesus Christ as your personal savior. my only problem with your concept of belief is that it assumes that a humans belief system has the potential to determine the destination of their eternal sou l. As far as Ive ever read in the bible, Jesus doesnt give any room for that. It seems pretty clear that whatever you believe, God is still lord of all. I know that there are people that certainly dont believe they are going to hell, I was one of them a year ago. But that is where I would have gone had I not chosen to start serving Christ. That is why Jesus instructs us to spread the gospel wherever we go, to be the light of the world. So that people that dont know, dont believe or dont want to believe at least know there is a better way, a loving father to save them from an eternity of punishment. I would urdge you to read the teachings of Christ himself again carefully and see what conclusion you come to from doing so. That is, of course, your choice to make and I do not intend to push further on the subject.Zakc93, I dont know why God chose to make the punishment eternal. Before Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the knowledge of goo d and evil, humans did not have the potential to sin, therefore, no one would have gone to hell. However, God knew that we would eat of that fruit, even though he commanded us not to, when he made us. It seems to me, just as with Tward, that a finite punishment would be more just. But God, being the most pure and righteous being in all of existence, knows far better than I what justice is. He can tolerate no unrighteousness at all in his presence, which is why he banished us from the garden of eden and direct access to the throne. When Satan told Eve that if she ate of the fruit, she would be like God, he was absolutely right in one way. The problem is that humans were not created to be able to control the potential for the knowledge of good and evil, and we naturally gravitate toward evil. God said that if he had allowed us to stay, we would have eaten of the knowledge of the tree of life as well and would have been exactly like him, and that would have been a total disaster. What I suspect is that God, when he originally created us, made our souls eternal. Being all powerful, Im sure he could reverse that or change it. I speculate that hell is basically a garbage heap for faulty creations, just as any inventor would have. If a creation does not behave as expected and it cant be fixed, it goes in the garbage, you dont make adjustments to it before throwing it away, especially not when youve tried to fix it already. That is a very human concept and I could be completely wrong. But someone earlier, I believe it was Druv, asked what would happen if we created sencient artificial intelligences. I can tell you what happened because Im seeing it happen with Siri, who is getting more and more intelligent with every release. We would fix problems, or scrap it and rebuild it if something went wrong. Say we created a fully intelligent robot, capable of human conversation on a complex level, to be our servant. Say that the robot decided for some reason that when we asked it to cook our eggs, he would rather cook
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? I will try to answer everything I intend to answer this time, as Ive been doing a pretty terrible job of that lately, lol.Firstly, thank you AlexN for those links, Ill definitely be checking those out as I love seeking scientific evidence that backs up my belief in Christ and reading any other evidence, contrary or otherwise, so that I can patch up holes in my belief system.SpiralingWyvern, youre absolutely right that society existed before Christianity, but certainly not before God. Even Judaism didnt exist until about 3 or 4000 years ago when God started guiding the Israelites. However, I as a Christian do not assume my source of morality is true over other sources, I back it up with evidence, such as historical and archaeological validations of scripture. Yes, there are prophetic validations of scripture as well, but as someone else pointed out, there are other supposed prophecies as well, and the bible even makes room for that when it says that if a prophecy comes true and the prophet who makes it says, come, let us go and follow other gods, that prophet is to be put to death. There are even claims of documented gods before the god of Christianity. The reason I accept Christianity as true over such religions as Mormonism, Gehovas witnesses or, branching out further, Taoism, Hinduism or islam, is because the bible, as far as my research has shown me, is the most historically, archaeologically and scientifically validated of any other religious text. Some would claim it is the most well-validated book in history, though I dont quite have enough evidence to back that claim yet. And if were talking impirical evidence, I dont think evolution can be tested either. Science can easily find evidence of species mutating, but mutations are almost always bad and even perceived benefitial ones are at the cost of something else. If someone is told when their wife is pregnant that their baby has a mutation, no one ever asks, oh, is it a good one? Therefore, mutation can not be how we would have evolved, if thats how it had happened. All we have for evidence are fossils, which can easily be covered by the hydroplate theory, and a 4.4 billion year old assumed timeline. Science scientists can not observe evolution happening directly, it can only be considered a theory since it can not be systematically tested.Severestormsteve, first of all let me welcome you into the family, brother. Im glad to know youve started following Jesus Christ as your personal savior. my only problem with your concept of belief is that it assumes that a humans belief system has the potential to determine the destination of their eternal soul. As far as Ive ever read in the bible, Jesus doesnt give any room for that. It seems pretty clear that whatever you believe, God is still lord of all. I know that there are people that certainly dont believe they are going to h ell, I was one of them a year ago. But that is where I would have gone had I not chosen to start serving Christ. That is why Jesus instructs us to spread the gospel wherever we go, to be the light of the world. So that people that dont know, dont believe or dont want to believe at least know there is a better way, a loving father to save them from an eternity of punishment. I would urdge you to read the teachings of Christ himself again carefully and see what conclusion you come to from doing so. That is, of course, your choice to make and I do not intend to push further on the subject.Zakc93, I dont know why God chose to make the punishment eternal. Before Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, humans did not have the potential to sin, therefore, no one would have gone to hell. However, God knew that we would eat of that fruit, even though he commanded us not to, when he made us. It seems to me, just as with Tward, that a fin ite punishment would be more just. But God, being the most pure and righteous being in all of existence, knows far better than I what justice is. He can tolerate no unrighteousness at all in his presence, which is why he banished us from the garden of eden and direct access to the throne. When Satan told Eve that if she ate of the fruit, she would be like God, he was absolutely right in one way. The problem is that humans were not created to be able to control the potential for the knowledge of good and evil, and we naturally gravitate toward evil. God said that if he had allowed us to stay, we would have eaten of the knowledge of the tree of life as well and would have been exactly like him, and that would have been a total disaster. What I suspect is that God, when he originally created us, made our souls eternal. Being all powerful, Im sure he could reverse that or change it. I speculate that hell is basically a garbage heap for faulty creations, just as any inventor would have. If a creation does not behave as expected and it cant be fixed,
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? For the evolution stuff:http://sciencenordic.com/missing-link-found-sharksMore Young earth stuff:http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/101_eviden … e_universeAand thats all Ive got for now... Happy reading... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=224127#p224127 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @Zakc93, when I was going through my transition from Christianity to non-theism I found myself asking the same kinds of questions. I did actually go out and try to find answers for them, and here is the conclusions I managed to come to after a bit of research.First, is why God would send someone to hell for not believing in Jesus. Unfortunately, salvation is the linchpin, the core doctrine, of Christianity. I could quote bible verses at you but the long and short of it is that one must implicitly believe in Jesus, accept him as ones personal savior, in order to be saved. If someone fails to accept Jesus as his or her personal savior, no matter why, they are apparently going to go to hell. From what I have read the bible doesnt seem to give any room for doubt.Personally, I think part of the problem here is the scriptures written long before philosophy and skeptical inquiry were well known. Therefore empirical evidence, the kind of evidence you and I would accept as being valid, wasnt even discussed or considered in the bible. One case in point is a little snip of Matthew I vaguely recall from my bible believing days.As I recall someone asked Jesus what would be the sign he was the Christ, the messiah, and Jesus replied that he would be crucified, die, and be raised up on the third day. No other sign would be given.Thats all well and good if one can verify it as having happened but after 2,000 years there is no way to validate the story, to confirm it, and if that is the only sign, per se, that would be given to verify Jesus as being the messiah then it is a very poor one by todays standards precisely because there isnt any empirical evidence that we can scientifically test. Thus the scriptures do not address the problem of empirical evidence, because I do not believe the writers felt such evidence was necessary. They assumed that simply telling the story would be more than enough to s way someone, and perhaps in those times it was.In any case if God is real he does not seem to want to force someones beliefs by revealing himself in a way that can be objectively verified. It is as though God expects us to take his word on the subject, the bible, and to ignore our five senses in this matter. He has not made allowances for skeptical in query and rational evidence based research. It is actually one of the principle issues upon which I left Christianity, because I honestly believed, was looking for evidence, and found nothing that would convince me that he was real.Like you said I consider myself a fairly open minded person. If God would show me some sort of evidence I would find credible it would change my mind. If he is truly all knowing as people believe he is then God would know what it would take to convince me of his reality. It isnt that I am closed minded, have a grudge against God, etc but merely a skeptical inquiry that if God is rea l then there should be some empirical way to test his existence the same way I would any other living creature or being that inhabits our world.@Bashue, the best answer I can give as to why other atheists failed to explain their beliefs to you is simply they probably didnt know how. We arent all good writers, we arent all knowing on every subject, thus even though they might be convinced of their point of view they might not be able to explain it in a way another person with a contrary point of view would understand.All I can ay is I have had some education in this area. When I was in college I took a course on communications, and as part of my communications class we discussed how to debate controversial topics and get an opinion across without sounding accusatory or offensive. I probably wasnt the best student at it, but I did learn how to compose speeches and argue a opinion in a way that would get the points across in away that someone witho ut a detailed understanding of the subject could get it. Maybe those other atheists you talked to just didnt have the skills to get their points across.The other reason might be simply because I educated myself out of a religious world view. I grew up Christian, believed in everything I had been told, but when I started having doubts I started to do a lot of reading on the subject. I tended to read both Christian arguments and atheist arguments and decided after a couple of years went by that Christianity was not true. I didnt want to give it up, didnt want to leave my beliefs, but I did feel the scientific arguments against it were strong and convincing. Thus I might know more about why I believe what I believe than your average Christian or atheist because I came to my beliefs after much reading and personal soul searching.For example, I am no expert on the neurological sciences by any means. However, I do know there has been a lot of research put forth the last couple of decades into consciousness and as it turns out a lot of things people
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings tward.Again, I must thank you for explaining it all. Unfortunately I dont have the same skill set as you have when it comes to explaining things. It all sounds fine in my head but when it comes out... Also, you may be surprised that Im happy that science could be disproving spiritual experiences. Why does he want that when his very belief system depends on them? Although Ill still believe in the out of body experiences, I see no problem at all incorporating science into the mix even if the aim of the scientists is to disprove the subjective experience. To me, they simply go hand in hand. Thanks again and its much appreciated.Kind regards, Amin Abdullah. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223916#p223916 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings tward.I guess I just have one question left. Why did the other atheists not explain their stance as you have done? For years Ive been asking this question, putting forth the same arguments as I did in my post to you and all they did was either say we just dont okay? or Ill believe what ever I want to. or they simply cut me off and talk to someone else. In these cases, I try not to be the first to bring up religion/faith but when they comment to me that creationism is a lode of nincompoop, naturally Im compelled to respond. True Ive been known to get excited because this was a question that I never got an answer for. Finally, something I could sink my teeth in and indulge my curiosity. Alas, they thought I was trying to convert them or something but the fact was that I only wanted to know where they were coming from.If the response I got from atheists was less than stellar, the response I got from those o f any religious persuasion was far more drastic. Do not question the scriptures. Heretic, hell awaits you for thinking above your station. If you believe not as we do then heaven will never open its doors to you. The mildest response I got from those whore religious was unfortunately, I am unable to assist you for I know not the answer. Read the books, there in will you find your answer.Okay, time to answer the question, what is God or a god. From my personal subjective experience, Ive deduced that God is a supernatural being; the one to exist before all else. How is my god more real or more true than the others? I believe that all beings be they gods, godly or otherwise are as real and as true as you and me; the only difference being that in my belief system, there has to be a single overlord and everyone and everything under that overlord. For nothing to exist, there has to be something in order for there to be not hing or the concept of nothing cannot exist which would mean that the concept of something could not exist either but then the something and nothing would have to exist and Im not sure whether a thing can exist without a concept! Yay I know, circular reasoning but my point is, for there to be a 0, there has to be a 1 as well. That first consciousness that first sentient energy would by its very nature create beings lesser than it because it cannot create anything equal or greater than it, just as we cannot create anything equal or greater than ourselves. God would have to be greater than itself in order to create anything greater so instead, God created beings capable of learning, improving, evolving and eventually becoming only a single step below equal to God capable of true equality if the beings choose to stay with him/her forever.Can I give absolute, objective, credible proof that my version of God exists? Not only can I not give proof/evidence but if you pick my b elief apart objectively, you will find no substance there because its all based on my personal experiences with the entity. Ask me to take a psychological/psychiatric test and I guarantee that it will say Im crazy for believing in what cannot be seen. Everything apart from my conviction that God exists can and may change in the future because Ive communed and communicated with that entity. Again, I cannot prove it, but Im hoping that science can some day prove Gods existence. You may ask, why does he want proof? His faith in Gods being is absolute. Well the proof is not for me but for everyone else. Imagine if you will, youve been around the world, absorbing all kinds of knowledge, having the best experiences and maybe some that werent so good. At the journeys end, you end up returning home. For the sake of argument, Im going to apply this analogy to God. I go home back to where I was first created and Mother/Father God is there welcoming me back with open arms. That is why I believe in God and I hold onto it so strongly, I guess you could say for me, God is someone to love who loves me in return.So to sum up, I cannot prove anything be it Gods existence or even an afterlife but the reason for me not only believing in God but doing so with absolute conviction is because God is someone who I can love without fear of rejection; we will always stay together even if for some strange reason I didnt want him anymore. If that happened, then I wouldnt be me but someone else. Also, my apologies for this post, I havent slept yet so it isnt as good as my previous ones.Kind regards, Amin Abdullah. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223838#p223838 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
2015-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Im a Christian, a new one, about 6 months into it I must say. And what I have to say, you must note the following:1. its directed at post 93.2. it might be confusing, so if you misunderstand me please dont jump the gun and lash out. What I believe is this. I personally know and have family and friends that do not believe in Jesus Christ as personal lord and savior as I do. However, the reason I dont spite god, even though it is my belief that they will go to hell if they dont believe and have a personal relationship with him, is because due to the fact they believe in no such god, they themselves dont believe they will spend forever in Hell. This comforts me because I know they dont have to live a life of misery, and they are using whatever else they believe and they believe it will make them happy just as I believe my Jesus will.This is also partly the reason why I dont persecute people with other beli efs, as some Christians do (such as homosexuals). Yes, they are doing wrong by my gods rules, but if my, god is not their, god, then theyre not breaking any rules or laws that theyre supposed to be following. It upsets me that there are groups such as ISIS which are out to destroy Christianity, because it does what I try to stay away from as a Christian... persecuting and going after a people because of their beliefs. My belief is that if we as Christians dont first persecute and judge non-Christians, they will not do the same to us. But whether or not it is due to Christian persecution that ISIS is out for Christians, Im not sure. One thing Im sure of, though, is that one of the main reasons people dont like us so much is that we judge them, even though we have no right to. And why, you ask? Because the bible says that when we accept God as our savior and truly believe on him, he becomes our Heavenly father. And we as Christians should not scorn others of the world for not following the rules set by our parents, heavenly or not.Again, sorry if this sounded a bit confusing, but I felt I needed to get this out on this topic. Again I hope I offended no one. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223807#p223807 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Im nonreligious however Im not really atheist either. I dont really give it much thought. Im fine with religious folk as long as they dont try to impose their beliefs on others or restrict other peoples reasonable freedoms. Same goes for atheists. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223811#p223811 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
2015-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Spiraling Wyvern via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Uh, on the morality bit a few post back, this is why we dont let children be in charge of anything until they learn the basic concept of morality, whatever the environment tends to lead them towards. Yes, children are selfish and self-centered at birth, but this is further worsen by the fact for the first few years of a childs life, the attention and center of the baby/chids world is them, and thus theyll favor situations that benefit only them. ON the same vain humans are born morally bankrupt, Christianity/Cahtolocism/whatever you feel like inserting here will not solve these problems to something that may think Jesus is a type of candy. One can say one might use concepts from those places to teach morality, but in the long run morality is not completely defined as something from one group/God, and considering different groups religious or otherwise, all each a form of morality, we cannot assume one source is the defacto provider of mora l beliefs (Though, considering like was put in front, well take that organization as an example). Also, societies existed before most of the major groups like Christianity were organized enough to do something. In order to form some sort of society, one needs a method of keeping everyone in line to prevent people from going Road Warrior on each other for lands and supplies. Though this might not be the only motivation to band together into civilizations, having the security of not being attacked at night for my cows beats the issue of submitting to a higher authority in the early civilizations. And in order to maintain a society that can agree to work together, certain unwritten (or written) rules are agreed upon that most people may call morality...or common sense to most of us in the 2000s. Granted, most organized religons help with reinforcing these concepts very well as we all come to agree stuff like not steali ng and helping out others is a good thing. (whatever that means to a person is usually different). ...Also I dont think what a pair of twins that are just forming, and have no sense of intelligence counts as displaying selfishness in humans. It sounds more like a biological reaction that can occur when more than one being inhabits the womb, though Im not a biologist so I wont comment on this further.Shrug, Im going to keep mostly silent for the rest of this. Most of my views come from attempting to interpret oncepts from political science and philosophy. Even though religious figures do appear in those fields of study, Im not exactly aware on how most religons or most scientific theories work. However... One weird thing Ive noticed people do here is that they seem to be taking one line, and stretching it to the most ext reme interpretation to try to invalidate the statement, despite the previous poster explaining the definition of a word or concept in their post. For anyone continuing a discussion, trying to pull this stuff off kind of makes it look a bit childish and petty. (Though for all I know I probably just did it too with the beginning portion, sort of a hard thing to notice honestly unless its extremely fragrent). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223767#p223767 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? For what its worth, I just want everyone to know that accepting what I believe to be true as absolute truth hasnt been easy, not for me, and Im sure that there are other Christians who would be able to say the same. When I consider that homosexuality is called a sin by God and I have cousins who engage in it who could care less about God or his rules, Im left with a paradox, a massive hole I myself cannot fill with anything, because the outcome seems horrendous. I have cousins who are generous, who are caring, who are loving, who are kind hearted, who have never done a horrible thing to me in their life, and Im supposed to accept that God might send them to hell because they dont care about him? No, its not easy. No, its not nice, and I dont blame anyone who doesnt want to look at it from that perspective. From that perspective, God does indeed seem capricious, spiteful, tyrannical. Eve n if we look at the story of Abraham and his son Isaac in the old testament, God seems like an uncaring, callous being who wants nothing more than to demonstrate his power and his ability to use it on the surface. That surface, I believe, is where one makes a choice, to try and learn and discover and draw closer to God, or turn away. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223804#p223804 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @Nocturnus, while I find your discussion of ultimate morality to be interesting it is my personal view that all morality is dictated by rationality. Since I do not believe morality comes from a god or supernatural entity I think that we, that is to say humans, have discovered ethics and morality through rational thought. Through reason rather than having been given our morals and ethics through some divine being.I will agree that children are not the best example to use because they often behave selfishly and display the worst attributes of mankind. However, we also know children are not mentally mature human beings, they neither have the intellect or concept, of rational thought. We are born selfish, born self-centered, and will do anything necessary to have our needs met. However, it is hoped that a parent etc will teach the child the difference between right and wrong and will consider the needs of others too and erode that self-centered nature we are all born with. In s hort teach them rationality and reason from which I believe all ethics and morality stems from.Once again you mentioned some ultimate purpose to our lives. I think that is where we differ in opinion. You are convinced there has to be some ultimate purpose to life where I do not. I do not think there is anything that proves there is any purpose to anything and while we might like to believe there is one I dont think we are in any position to know since I personally believe the bible, and all other holy books are as man made as Harry Potter. So if there is some divine purpose I dont know what it is and really dont care. I can live a happy and fulfilling life without believing in some ultimate divine purpose. Weather there is a god or not the sun still rises and still sets and for me that is enough. Im satisfied in having this @Bashue, you raise some interesting points in your post above, but before I address them directly I feel the need to explain something that often puzzles sometimes confuses those coming from a religious position. They dont understand atheism because they dont understand skepticism.To begin with a religious person is taught to accept things on faith. To believe in things for which they have insufficient proof of. God, angels, demons, heaven, hell, are all concepts they accept on faith, believe in, although it is unlikely they have any proof those things exist. Yet they never doubt their existence because their religious texts, friends, family, and religious community all say they are true. They just take it on faith. So the default position on anything is usually true unless proven false.The scientific method, if properly used, generally works from a position of skepticism or doubt by default. That is to say a given proposition is considered false until proven true. Therefore if someone claims there are gods, angels, demons, and other supernatural beings of which a sk eptic has no personal experience or knowledge of the default position is to assume it is false unless there is some credible evidence proving that being really does exist. That is why I and many other atheists doubt the existence of God, angels, demons, etc is because I think it is more rational to assume something is not true that does not have credible evidence that I will accept as true.So to sum up a lot of the argument or debate between science purests and religious people is a difference in coming two different ends of the spectrum on belief. Many science types are coming from a position of skepticism and many religious people are coming from a position of belief. Since they are totally opposite positions it is no wonder they can not come to an agreement.That said, you basically asked me to speculate on the existence of god or gods without any specific religious context. So I will.The first problem is if we remove the religious context and consider h igher beings, gods, I cant honestly say one way or the other if they do or do not exist because what exactly is a god or godlike being? To give you an example of the problem there is a show here in the USA called Ancient Aliens on the History Channel. On that show they speculate that perhaps all the ancient gods, angels, demons, etc are in fact aliens that came here from another planet in our distant past. Well, if ones definition of gods is broad enough to include flesh and blood beings from another planet, aliens, then I think it is possible that they could exist. I personally do not know if they do or do not exist, but it does make a sort of rational sense that ancient man would have worshipped such beings as gods and goddesses not knowing or realizing that they were like us but from a much more technically evolved culture than our own.If by a god or godlike beings you mean in the traditional sense, supernatural entities, I personally have my doubts. It is not that I do not think they could exist, but more the
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? At nocturnus and bladestorm, heres something that doesnt seem to make sense to me, so Im hoping either of you can explain it to me. Ive been told by christians that Im going to hell simply for not believing that Jesus is god. The thing is, Im not rejecting the concept of a god due to any bad intention on my part, but based on the evidence I have available to me. I grew up christian, all be it with a syncretic form of the religion, but at some point my interest in science forced me to confront the fact that I was excepting all this just as a matter of fact, and not based on anything objective. A lot of things get interpreted as objective support for your beliefs, but this is usually through a subjective filter. For example, people would point to prophecies in the Bible and events in history or at present that supposedly validates them, but the same is done with the Quran, Nostradamus, etc. We even had our own local version who lived over a centur y ago and apparently predicted everything from the russian revolution to AIDS to Mandela. All of these are argued with what seems to me to be equal validity, but they are all instances of someone taking what has already happened and associating it with a usually rather vague prophecy. But I have yet to find an accurate prediction of something before it happens. Another thing is claiming that scientific evidence fits with your particular belief system (I use to do this myself). But the problem is different groups do this, and again people usually nitpick facts that they interpret as support for their beliefs and ignore those that seem to contradict it. At some point, because I was studying science because it has always been my primary interest, rather than as a means of validating my beliefs, I could no longer deny the fact that I was being very selective about what science I incorporated into my belief system. There was a time when I looked around on american creationist websites wh ich seem to give scientific evidence, but if you are really honest with yourself and interested in science it is impossible not to see how they do the same. When looking at several different religions I couldnt find anything that set christianity apart from the rest. Everyone believes strongly in their belief system and have things that they claim in support of that. It was not an easy process losing my religion, but rather a slow process of enlightenment and thinking outside my box. I have no problem with christians or any other religious people as long as they dont negatively affect people around them; and I have christian and muslim friends who fit this description. But Ive digressed from my original point. I only reject your god since that seems to be the right thing to do; just as you reject the gods of other religions. I like to think that Im an open minded person, and if your god would just show me something that would prove to me that he, rather than the gods of other religions, is the true god, I would definitely reconsider my position. But as it stands I cant see what sets your religion apart. Now back to my original question: why would your god punish me for all eternity? Im not being unreasonable, this is simply how I see the world. I realise that we are all way more subjective than we would like to admit, but I attempt to be as objective as I can in this regard. If your god is truly both omniscient and all-loving, why would he punish me for the understanding of the world to the best of my knowledge? Why doesnt he direct me to evidence of his existance if such exists? (As for the bible, I have read some of it, I have also read parts of the Quran, but nothing in either set it apart as superior to the other.) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223826#p223826 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Theres no way I could seriously back the idea that science is always objective, while any belief system is subjective. What it really amounts to is that belief systems are backed by evidence, no matter how flimsy, and your belief system is generally backed by the evidence you look for and find. For example, since I became a Christian, I have found innumerable evidences to support the idea that the world is not only created, but is around 1 years old, that Jesus really did exist and died for our sins, and that the bible is the completely accurate word of God. Bashue, you asked why we shouldnt just ask God for all the rules? Well, if you wrote something down, and people kept asking you the same questions over and over, wouldnt you continually refer them to your writings since youve already answered the question?Interestingly enough, I do agree with you that the big bang theory could easily have been God speaking the world into existance. I don ;t think it was a Christian that invented the theory, but George Whitefield did say that if there were something of that nature that created us, it would be exactly what he would have expected from Gods voice bringing the universe into being. However, it was in 6 days that he did it, not in the commonly proposed 3 minute accident that supposedly started this whole process.Tward, I question the bible constantly and have yet to find an unanswerable question or a contradiction I cant solve. Id even be willing to have you test me on that, and Ive only been a Christian for a little over a year now. Whether or not youre willing to accept those answers is another thing entirely, but Im sorry that it took something as simple as a refutable claim by an archaeology professor to get you to start turning away from your savior. I also find it interesting that youre willing to wait on science for answers, but when it came to your faith, you crash l anded when you were told that science hadnt found anything yet and wasnt likely to.As for genetic studies, everyone says were all evolved from apes, but actually, our DNA is more closely related to pigs. Often times, its not even primate supplements we use for things like diabetics, for a long time it was pig or cow insulin. But does anyone believe we were evolved from pigs or cows? Nope, that wouldnt make sense, especially since we resemble primates far more.In short, I do not distrust science at all. I am often skeptical of its objectivity, but it has massively reinforced my faith over the past year. I dont agree with Christians that science of any form is to be distrusted. Ive found more than enough scientific evidence to back my beliefs up and have even posted here where I found it. Whether or not those reading this are willing to look into it or would rather instead cling to sometimes outdated and often subjective st udies based on assumptions that certain things are true is entirely up to them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223693#p223693 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Lots of reading material for ya... Im sure I could find more, but I decided that two or three links per section would be plenty...About the six days:https://www.gci.org/bible/genesis/sixdayshttp://www.everystudent.com/wires/sixdays.htmlAbout pigs and apes:http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ … 887206.htmhttp://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/geneticsWorlds age:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationismhttp://www.livescience.com/46123-many-a … nists.htmlhttp://www.tim-thompson.com/young-earth.html URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223729#p223729 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings bladestorm360.Firstly, time. Im not too sure that 3 minutes is sufficient enough for anything to truly form; I think the scientists were referring to the stuff expanding to the size of a galaxy in 3 minutes but not having anything formed yet because the universe was too energetic. As for the 6 day period, that could work if a day was not 24 hours in the beginning but 100 millennia. Im leaning toward a day being 100 millennia long because time was relatively slow back then but it gradually sped up. Why do I believe this? Gravity was the dominant force back then and dark matter was still gaining momentum to push everything apart. Thats different from gasses separating from the initial thrust of the big bang. As for the creation story starting with the earth before everything else, I think that was to explain to us that because life was going to prosper here, earth was the focal point. However, if other beings from other planets were reading the bib le, they would see their planet being of most importance rather than earth. So instead of it saying the earth was without form, it would say planet x was without form. It does not signify however that earth is in the centre of the solar system, galaxy or universe, it just means that earth is central to Gods plan.Secondly, the fact that were related to pigs. That would explain why Muslims dont eat pigs as well as them explaining that they have their fair share of parasites living on and in their bodies. Ill have to research it but Im inclined to agree with you on that one.Finally, the subjectivity of belief systems. I cannot refute your argument because it was carefully thought out and well reasoned. I must state however that my personal belief system is totally subjective because I mostly rely on my connection to the spirit realms.Kind regards, Amin Abdullah. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223722#p223722 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings Zakc93.In that case, I will happily revise my belief system. You used the scientific method to bolster your argument and I cannot argue against that. In this case, its good for me to be proven wrong. Now, you might be surprised that Im not protesting your claim as a creationist should. Although I was born into a religion, Im a spiritualist and I dont consider myself truly tied down by any single religion except for those parts I choose to follow. The difference between spiritualists and religious folk is that although we both utilise faith, spiritualists are able to adapt and change if science can disprove or prove part of what we believe. The only reason why I didnt say our entire belief system is because right now, it is impossible for science to do that but if in the future it does, then we will follow accordingly. Personally, Im hoping that science can prove the existence of God or the gods. If it disproves that then I would be very afraid because that is the central keystone of my entire belief system and I wouldnt know what to do. If on the other hand science proves it, then I would jump for joy because God is a being Ive invested all my good emotions in and who I love dearly. I would gladly volunteer for any scientific research and experimentation if such opportunity comes my way to prove or disprove the existence of God and I believe someone created a God helmet and others are talking about God particles. Its all very exciting.Kind regards, Amin Abdullah. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223532#p223532 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi bashue, As a genetics student, I just felt the need to point out that there is in fact enough information on the genetic level. Our genomes are very similar to that of other apes; we are most closely related to chimps and bonobos, a bit more distantly related to gorillas, etc. You may say that god created us with a lot of the same genetics as other primates but my problem with that is that we have what are called pseudogenes, which are genes that no longer work due to some mutation that has rendered them nonfunctional. An example is a gene that allows the production of vitamin C in the body of mammals, the genes is present in primates including humans but it doesnt work. Why would god create us with the same nonfunctional genes as other primates? Also, what about all the hominid fossils that seem to be intermediates between modern humans and other primates? Theres australopithecus which is bipedal like us but still has a small brain, homo habilis with a bit bigger brain but still smaller than ours, and apparently the ability to use simple tools, etc. It just seems more likely that humans evolved slowly, step by step from the same primate ancestor that chimps and bonobos evolved from. Why are we so different from them then? If two species evolve separately they can become very different. Look at chimps and bonobos, they diverged much later from each other than we diverged from them, so are very closely related, but have very different behaviours. Or dogs, who are all descended from wolf ancestors, so are also closely related genetically, but yet can seem so different from each other. Hope that makes sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223514#p223514 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @twardInterestingly enough, science disagrees with you on this very subject. The idea that collectively we agree on matters of morality can be disproven by the very nature of humankind. Observe the human child. He does not need to be taught to lye, to cheat, to misbehave, to do anything that is anything which society considers unfavorable. This is so deeply rooted in our nature that from the very beginning, science has observed twins fighting in the womb, sometimes digesting each other so as to come out on top, and in some of those cases the digested twin may turn into a parasite so as to try and survive, eating the would be survivor from the inside out.Once, I believed that the very existence of religions was necessary for the weak to survive; it was a requirement to maintain order in an otherwise chaotic world. That idea has wholes in it, I know, but that was my belief and I worked with it regularly. Anarchy was the default state o f man and needed to be dealt with, thus the founding of institutions such as Christianity which taught retribution and consequence for certain actions. The problem is that when you believe in nothing and have nothing to believe in you become fully aware of something, your life has no purpose and making one up is as good as living a lye. Something has to be true, or else, your life and mine are worthless. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223460#p223460 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings tward.For the first time ever, Ive had a full explanation of why someone may not believe in a higher power. If only others explained it as well as you, there would be no real arguments, at least not with those willing to rely on their intellects. Yes I know that may sound insulting but Ive heard both creationists and evolutionists say this is the way, this is what we believe and do not question. If you dont mind, Id like to delve into that reason a little more and propose a different way of looking at it.Firstly for this to work, lets strip out religion all together and simply consider God or the gods as entities. As a being or beings you cannot see, are you open if not to believing in them, then open to the possibility that they could exist? If so or more importantly if not, why not? Is it that there is no higher power at all? I myself believe that Lord Abah Jehovah God is the creator and teacher but I dont b elieve that any one religion holds all the answers. I firmly believe that if you want rules and the like, ask Mother/Father God herself.Secondly, creation or evolution? I always ask why not both? Im going to research this after posting this but wasnt it a Christian who came up with the big bang theory? Yes in this case I mean theory in the scientific sense, not the laymans sense. Why cant we say God created the universe via the big bang? It surprises me to find that the creation account and the big bang theory are rather similar in nature. And God said, let there be light and God saw that the light was good. That isnt a direct quote by the way. Now in the big bang theory, everything exploded from a single point. We dont know what exploded or why but there was a great deal of light from the central point. Accordingly, I dont think the visible light started to be visible until 40 years after the big bang. We cannot see p rior to that point because the universe at that point was too energetic and there wasnt enough light to see by. Also, the stuff in the cosmic microwave background wasnt as smooth or as uniformly distributed as it is now. Also, why can we not say that God created all and each life form according to its kind evolved to what we know today? Having said that, I really should class myself as an evolutionary creationist! Just an idea but I see no problem with science and spirituality working together. If the religious powers that be worked with scientists or whore scientists themselves then I think the world would definitely be a better and more exciting place.Thirdly, the existence of God and the gods. I believe in a singular central deity but I see no reason why the other gods cannot exist as well. They could be anything from angels, demons, other spirits, aliens or humanoid societies with advanced technology and meta human abilities. After all, we 39;ve advanced so much that some day were going to surpass our own limitations so why can we not join their ranks? As for the one God verses multiple god theories go and in this case, Im referring to theory in the laymans sense of the word, human positions change all the time; a queen cannot rule forever. However, if a ruler treats everyone fairly and justly, I dont see too many wishing to overthrow that ruler. If for the sake of argument, the ruler is immortal and the same rules apply, the ruler would rule indefinitely and only those wishing to commit crimes would attempt an overthrow. So in the same vane, I dont see God doing anything harmful to us and briefly bringing back religion, all the religious books out there are different interpretations of what we believe God handed down to us. I actually see more separation between the various religions and the existence of God than I do between science and spirituality. Spirituality explains who and what w hile science explains the what and how.Finally, other realms, other dimensions and not just heaven and hell, arent they as plausible as having other planets with sentient life? If the universe is flat then why cannot it be layered to? After all, the visible light can only give us limited information. We cannot see into the gamma or radio wavelengths of light but our radios can pick up radio light as we hear the sound. Also, current theory goes that black holes eats up information and we have no way of prying apart a black hole to find out whether the matter it sucked in is the same on a particle level. Also, on a side note, if energy can neither be created nor destroyed, then could it be possible that we may exist independently of our biological forms? Why should the mind dye along with the body? Are the mind and the brain the same thing? Im pretty sure that theyre not due to my subjective experiences. Beliefs are all subjective while science is objective.Kind regards, Amin Abdullah. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223483#p223483
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings tward.For the first time ever, Ive had a full explanation of why someone may not believe in a higher power. If only others explained it as well as you, there would be no real arguments, at least not with those willing to rely on their intellects. Yes I know that may sound insulting but Ive heard both creationists and evolutionists say this is the way, this is what we believe and do not question. If you dont mind, Id like to delve into that reason a little more and propose a different way of looking at it.Firstly for this to work, lets strip out religion all together and simply consider God or the gods as entities. As a being or beings you cannot see, are you open if not to believing in them, then open to the possibility that they could exist? If so or more importantly if not, why not? Is it that there is no higher power at all? I myself believe that Lord Abah Jehovah God is the creator and teacher but I dont b elieve that any one religion holds all the answers. I firmly believe that if you want rules and the like, ask Mother/Father God herself.Secondly, creation or evolution? I always ask why not both? Im going to research this after posting this but wasnt it a Christian who came up with the big bang theory? Yes in this case I mean theory in the scientific sense, not the laymans sense. Why cant we say God created the universe via the big bang? It surprises me to find that the creation account and the big bang theory are rather similar in nature. And God said, let there be light and God saw that the light was good. That isnt a direct quote by the way. Now in the big bang theory, everything exploded from a single point. We dont know what exploded or why but there was a great deal of light from the central point. Accordingly, I dont think the visible light started to be visible until 40 years after the big bang. We cannot see p rior to that point because the universe at that point was too energetic and there wasnt enough light to see by. Also, the stuff in the cosmic microwave background wasnt as smooth or as uniformly distributed as it is now. Also, why can we not say that God created all and each life form according to its kind evolved to what we know today? I cannot believe that we evolved from fish, plants , apes or any other animal due to the fact that there is missing information on the genetic level but I can believe that a prehistoric frog could evolve to the kind of frog we know today. Having said that, I really should class myself as an evolutionary creationist! Just an idea but I see no problem with science and spirituality working together. If the religious powers that be worked with scientists or whore scientists themselves then I think the world would definitely be a better and more exciting place.Thirdly, the existence of God and the gods. I believe in a singular cen tral deity but I see no reason why the other gods cannot exist as well. They could be anything from angels, demons, other spirits, aliens or humanoid societies with advanced technology and meta human abilities. After all, weve advanced so much that some day were going to surpass our own limitations so why can we not join their ranks? As for the one God verses multiple god theories go and in this case, Im referring to theory in the laymans sense of the word, human positions change all the time; a queen cannot rule forever. However, if a ruler treats everyone fairly and justly, I dont see too many wishing to overthrow that ruler. If for the sake of argument, the ruler is immortal and the same rules apply, the ruler would rule indefinitely and only those wishing to commit crimes would attempt an overthrow. So in the same vane, I dont see God doing anything harmful to us and briefly bringing back religion, all the religious books out there are different interpretations of what we believe God handed down to us. I actually see more separation between the various religions and the existence of God than I do between science and spirituality. Spirituality explains who and what while science explains the what and how.Finally, other realms, other dimensions and not just heaven and hell, arent they as plausible as having other planets with sentient life? If the universe is flat then why cannot it be layered to? After all, the visible light can only give us limited information. We cannot see into the gamma or radio wavelengths of light but our radios can pick up radio light as we hear the sound. Also, current theory goes that black holes eats up information and we have no way of prying apart a black hole to find out whether the matter it sucked in is the same on a particle level. Also, on a side note, if energy can neither be created nor destroyed, then could it be possible that we may exist independently of our biological forms? Why should the mind dye along with the body? Are the mind and the brain the same thing? Im pretty sure that theyre
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings tward.For the first time ever, Ive had a full explanation of why someone may not believe in a higher power. If only others explained it as well as you, there would be no real arguments, at least not with those willing to rely on their intellects. Yes I know that may sound insulting but Ive heard both creationists and evolutionists say this is the way, this is what we believe and do not question. If you dont mind, Id like to delve into that reason a little more and propose a different way of looking at it.Firstly for this to work, lets strip out religion all together and simply consider God or the gods as entities. As a being or beings you cannot see, are you open if not to believing in them, then open to the possibility that they could exist? If so or more importantly if not, why not? Is it that there is no higher power at all? I myself believe that Lord Abah Jehovah God is the creator and teacher but I dont b elieve that any one religion holds all the answers. I firmly believe that if you want rules and the like, ask Mother/Father God herself.Secondly, creation or evolution? I always ask why not both? Im going to research this after posting this but wasnt it a Christian who came up with the big bang theory? Yes in this case I mean theory in the scientific sense, not the laymans sense. Why cant we say God created the universe via the big bang? It surprises me to find that the creation account and the big bang theory are rather similar in nature. And God said, let there be light and God saw that the light was good. That isnt a direct quote by the way. Now in the big bang theory, everything exploded from a single point. We dont know what exploded or why but there was a great deal of light from the central point. Accordingly, I dont think the visible light started to be visible until 40 years after the big bang. We cannot see p rior to that point because the universe at that point was too energetic and there wasnt enough light to see by. Also, the stuff in the cosmic microwave background wasnt as smooth or as uniformly distributed as it is now. Also, why can we not say that God created all and each life form according to its kind evolved to what we know today? I cannot believe that we evolved from fish, plants , apes or any other animal due to the fact that there is missing information on the genetic level but I can believe that a prehistoric frog could evolve to the kind of frog we know today. Having said that, I really should class myself as an evolutionary creationist! Just an idea but I see no problem with science and spirituality working together. If the religious powers that be worked with scientists or whore scientists themselves then I think the world would definitely be a better and more exciting place.Thirdly, the existence of God and the gods. I believe in a singular cen tral deity but I see no reason why the other gods cannot exist as well. They could be anything from angels, demons, other spirits, aliens or humanoid societies with advanced technology and meta human abilities. After all, weve advanced so much that some day were going to surpass our own limitations so why can we not join their ranks? As for the one God verses multiple god theories go and in this case, Im referring to theory in the laymans sense of the word, human positions change all the time; a queen cannot rule forever. However, if a ruler treats everyone fairly and justly, I dont see too many wishing to overthrow that ruler. If for the sake of argument, the ruler is immortal and the same rules apply, the ruler would rule indefinitely and only those wishing to commit crimes would attempt an overthrow. In the bible we see instances of incerection and others trying to overthrow God. Today, I dont see God doing anything harmful to us, e ven if people are trying to overthrow him/her and briefly bringing back religion, all the religious books out there are different interpretations of what we believe God handed down to us. I actually see more separation between the various religions and the existence of God than I do between science and spirituality. Spirituality explains who and what while science explains the what and how.Finally, other realms, other dimensions and not just heaven and hell, arent they as plausible as having other planets with sentient life? If the universe is flat then why cannot it be layered to? After all, the visible light can only give us limited information. We cannot see into the gamma or radio wavelengths of light but our radios can pick up radio light as we hear the sound. Also, current theory goes that black holes eats up information and we have no way of prying apart a black hole to find out whether the matter it sucked in is the same on a particle level. Also, on a side note , if energy can neither be created nor destroyed, then could it be possible that we may exist independently of our biological forms?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? assault_freak wrote:As to your hypothesis about artificial intelligence. The same could be said of a national ruled by a governmental body. If you really believe that once you become conscious noone has the right to tell you what to do, that would imply that under the government they shouldnt have any right to tell you what to do, punish you, or anything of the sort. In essence, if you felt like murdering someone, the government shouldnt tell you not to do it... because free will, right? If those artificial intelligences did indeed become conscious and develop a will of their own, if they did not follow the laws and regulations we set down and rebelled? What would we do then?Im afraid I dont think this is a valid comparison. After all, national governments didnt create us and give us all of our properties, weve had most of those before we even knew what a government actuall y was. But what if we created entities literally from the ground up, gave then rules which they should follow, and then gave them free will? I think this was illustrated in the artificial intelligence example and thats something quite different. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223318#p223318 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? assault_freak wrote:As to your hypothesis about artificial intelligence. The same could be said of a national ruled by a governmental body. If you really believe that once you become conscious noone has the right to tell you what to do, that would imply that under the government they shouldnt have any right to tell you what to do, punish you, or anything of the sort. In essence, if you felt like murdering someone, the government shouldnt tell you not to do it... because free will, right? If those artificial intelligences did indeed become conscious and develop a will of their own, if they did not follow the laws and regulations we set down and rebelled? What would we do then?Im afraid I dont think this is a valid comparison. After all, national governments didnt create us and give us all of our properties, weve had most of those before we even knew what a government actuall y was. But what if we created entities literally from the ground up, gave them rules which they should follow, and then gave them free will? I think this was illustrated in the artificial intelligence example and thats something quite different. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223318#p223318 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? When you give something rules for them to follow... youre effectively governing the way they live, which is what governments currently do. whether they created you is not quite the issue. If they can tell you what to do, and they didnt create you, then why can your creator not have at least a say? God has given us free will, because he wants us to love him as he loves us. The problem with love is... it requires free will to be truly love, because love is a choice. you cannot force someone to love you, except physically through rape... and that, whatever your belief system is, is wrong. And again with the artificial intelligences... if we created them and gave them absolute free will to do what they wished, which is what God did, one day they would likely rebelle and turn their backs on us. And while some might say, well, so be it... theyre the next big thing anyway and humans need to die out sometime, if you were actually facing that scenario you probably wouldn& #039;t be feeling that way. More likely, you would be either feeling angry or sad that the creation you put so much time and effort into and possibly loved or treasured has discarded you and now named you an enemy simply because it doesnt like the truth that you show it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223335#p223335 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? The question that needs to be answered is, were we created? if we were, then whatever created us has the right to dictate who we are, where we stand, how we live, and just about everything else by the simple fact that it created us, similarly to how one creates a tool such as a spoon and gives it a purpose. if we were not, then what gives us the right to anything, really? How can we decide that there is such a thing as equality and what governs it? Is there such a thing as better or worse, and if so why? By whos standard? Mine? Yours? Your mothers cousins best friends boyfriends sister? What makes you, or me, or anyone else capable of deciding such a thing? What and or who has the power to give us or them the right to anything, even choice, particularly choices over us all/And if we are not all equal, why not? Are men better than women? Are white better than black? Are sight ed better than blind? Are cripples the bottom of the barrel? Do the self contained and mentally challenged have no right whatsoever? Can they be used as little more than tools? Why or why not? Who can we kill and who can we keep? By what standard do we determine that? Is murder simply a way to excersise and control aggression? Can we bring back the gladiators? Can we recreate the hunger games and simply use that as a means to obtain tbhrills? Why or why not?Oh, but of course, I am not being imaginative. lol URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223339#p223339 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @Bladestorm360, weather or not you personally accept the scientific definition of a theory is beside the point I was trying to make. To clarify the point I was making is you shouldnt equivocate the laymans definition of a theory with that of a scientists definition of a theory. They are two completely different understandings of the word, different uses, and if we are going to have an intelligent discussion of science and religion we should at least recognize that the two definitions and uses of that word are not equal. Therefore saying something is just a theory is to undermine what a scientist really means by calling something a theory. Weather a given theory turns out to be fact, provable, is certainly debatable but the definition of what that person means by using the word isnt. I hope that makes more sense in light of this discussion.As for the subject of teaching creationism in school that is something of a slippery slope. Generally in places l ike the U.S. when the subject of teaching creationism comes up by that Christians mean of course their own version or view of creation, but have no evidence or objective reasons why that version of creationism should be favored rather than say the Hindu version of creationism. Unfortunately, everybody has or her own pet theory or hypothesis on how the universe came into being, how life began, and if we rule out the Big Bang and Evolution as credible then we run into the argument of which creation story is valid. Of course, Christians and Jews will support their contention the bibles version of creation is the truth just as Im sure a Hindu would claim his or her religious stories are true. Upon what basis do we decide as a nation to adopt one subjective religious creation story over another. Especially, since in places like America people are religiously and culturally diverse enough that no single given creation story will satisfy the entire public. For that reason alone I think teaching creationism in school is a bad idea.Another reason I am against teaching creationism in school is it has the problem of making non-Christians like me feel like Christians are shoving their beliefs down our throats. I am not a Christian and therefore I would hope by sending my kids to public school that school would respect my wishes by teaching them how to read, write, do math, the basics of science, etc without getting into any kind of religious indoctrination. By teaching creationism Christians would in effect be able to indoctrinate millions of children into Christianity, shove their beliefs down our throats, regardless if that child is the son or daughter of non-religious parents or a child of a different faith.Besides that, one problem I have with the Christian creation story is how long it took for God to create the universe and the endless debate of how old the universe. Here in the USA there are Christian fundamentalists who belief the u niverse was created in six literal days and nights, and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. According to a recent Pew Research Survey roughly 40% of Americans not only believe in creation but believe that the earth is no more than 10,000 years old. I find that belief deeply disturbing, and do not believe it is supportable in any way, shape, or form. So would be pretty upset to discover that public schools were teaching that non-sense to children. To me saying the Earth is less than 10,000 years is as foolish and ignorant as saying the Earth is flat or that the Earth is the center of the universe. So no I do not believe children should be exposed to that kind of beliefs through public school.I think one reason we have such apposing viewpoints on this issue is how we were raised and what we use to believe before. In post 73 you mentioned before converting to Christianity you didnt care how the universe came into existence or wonder where life came from. I guess it just didnt matter all that much to you personally. I on the other hand was raised a Christian, was taught the usual creation story, and was taught to distrust science and consider all of the scientific theories were lies. It wasnt until I got to college and began to really learn what science had to teach that slowly all of the religious beliefs I once had began to unravel and I personally felt lied to. I felt like I had been deceived and told a lie. Even though from their perspective what they had taught me wasnt a lie to them.To give you an example imagine my surprise when I was taking History 101, Ancient Civilizations, and we were studying ancient Egypt. Someone naturally asked about the Exodus. My history professor answered that there was very little archeological evidence to support the biblical story of the exodus, and that there was little reason to think it was anything more than an ancient fable or myth.For my part I was absolutely shocked . All my life I had accepted
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? A friend sent me this link. Unfortunately its in Danish, so I guess youll have to run it thorugh some kind of translator to understand it, buuut still. I just tried with GT, and while it was an extremely bad translation, it could Work, although it didnt sound as nice as it would if a human had translated it... (Im too lazy to do that, even though I like the sermon)http://koebnerkirken.dk/praestetanker/h … eligioner/Im not Christian myself, although Ive been confirmed and what not, I just found out later that it wasnt my thing at all. To be honest I doubt I ever really believed in the first place anyway. Its not like I grew up surrounded by faith and holy Water or anything, nor was I baptised until I decided it myself at the age of 13, mainly so Id get confirmed with the rest of my classmates the following year I guess.Either way, have a look at the link and think about it. I guess Ill have to go read those parts of that great big book myself now just so I know exactly what its about. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223341#p223341 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @AlexN94I respect you all that much more for coming straight out and saying youre not. In fact, Ill take it a step further, I have more respect for you than I do for some Christians, and if you dont mind me saying so, I do believe Jesus probably does, too, and I can back that up with scripture.Yeah, that probably just shocked a few people. lolTruth is, the saddest reality I have to live with is that no matter what church I go to, I always find hypocrites. Interestingly enough, I also believe that theres no better place for them than the church. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223354#p223354 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Im getting ready to head off for the day... Yeah yeah, Nocturnus and all that, right? Ha ha. I figured Id come on here and post rather briefly though about something that still amuses myself and Bladestorm if I remember correctly, that not even Darwin could deny that the very theory of evolution, of natural selection that he was suggesting sounded at the very least, unbelievable, to the point where he actually called it absurd himself. :dIll write in more detail later since I do want to reply as best I can. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223154#p223154 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Themadviolinist, could you point out some specific examples of how the belief that Nocturnis and I hold is harming people directly? As far as I know, I have not killed any homosexuals or even advocated for doing so. I have not condemned any homosexuals to hell, Jesus Christ did that through the apostle Paul and it has nothing to do with them being specifically homosexual. It has to do with the fact that they are willfully practicing sin while trying to claim a relationship with the sinless one, or not having a relationship with him as the case may be, so that their soul is not saved. You can not claim that our personal beliefs are harming people because other members of the church have abused those beliefs in the past. We are not creating an idol, we are following Gods divinely inspired word, the primary method he uses to communicate with his believers. Whether or not you believe its Gods word is entirely up to you, but without knowing the original Hebrew and gre ek, I dont hold to the opinion that this is simply my interpretation of the bible. People have been trying that line of logic since we were created, and its one way that cults are formed. Yet Christianity, as Jesus intended it, is still alive and thriving 2000 years later, despite the worlds attempts to put a stop to it. So many other religions and idols have come and gone, yet Jesus Christ, the son of God, remains.At the end of the day, what I personally believe harms no one. The one place I find intolerance in the world is in Christianitys intolerance of sin. As long as you arent professing to be a follower of Jesus Christ and the bible, everyone in the country I live in is expected to be tolerant of your beliefs and practices. I personally have no problem being told Im wrong or that I shouldnt be doing something, I count it as joy to be percicuted, just as Jesus said I should. I should not be forced to advocate for practices that I know to be wrong, just as a homosexual man should not be forced to be straight. That is not at all what were trying to do. I believe I can speak for Nocturnis and I both when I say that we believe in true free will. We believe that something is wrong because we were told it is wrong, but we do not believe that practice should be forcefully eradicated from the world. People always have a choice to make, at least in the country I live in. If someone wants to be homosexual, thats fine. If they dont want to believe that its wrong, thats fine too. Just dont tell me that I have to believe that its right, as that infringes upon my freedom. I should not be forced to marry a gay couple if I were a pastor, when there are plenty of other churches out there, or even secular justices of the peace, that will do it for them. If, some day, I decide to throw aside the teachings of the bible and, against Christs will, start marrying homosexuals, that
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hello,So I dont know about christianity much, and I just want something clerrified. Can anyone prove any other sources for christianity other than the bible? if they can, id be extremely interested, as it might prove the existance of christianity. Literary sources dont really define what happened in reality if theyre not backed up by other sources, so it would be a good thing for christianity if there were any other resources in support of it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223177#p223177 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Also, think on this. This is wildly different from my previous post, hence my argument for posting another one.Say one day, artificial intelligence is created. We, humans, are the creators. Some time in the future they become conscious. We lay down a few laws for them to follow because why not? we are the owners, we should do whatever. They dont own us, we do. So we lay down some laws they absolutely must follow, otherwise they get arraticated out of existance.Now, I am one of the being from this race of artificially intelligent beings. I choose to be different from the norm, not follow the rules the creators have set down for me. No one has proven that if you follow or dont follow the rules if you do or dont get arraticated out of existance. Lets say this is a very very slow intelligence.In this case, would the being be right or the humans? I think, once something becomes consciously aware, no one has a rite to tell it what it can do. Thi s promise of going to hell if we dont follow gods rules makes something cry out in me of the injustice of it. If god wanted rule abiding beings it shouldnt have given us conscious thought. I in full conshense cant follow something that hasnt been found, and who tries to enslave me. If it wanted me as a slave it should have kept free will away fromc me.And Im curious, bladestorm360-do you consider homosexuality a mental disorder? I would not class it as such, even if it goes against sevaral religions. As stated by religions there arent mental disorders exactly, this field, this research, whatever you want to call it, is only done by humans out of their own free-will. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223182#p223182 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? First off, what do you mean by other sources to prove christianity? Theres archeological dating of the biblical manuscripts, and while I dont know the exact number, but I do remember that the New Testament is proven to be a historically accurate document, partially due to the fact that it is one historical document which is known to have the most surviving manuscripts, and among those copies is one that dates back to as close to the believed time of these documented events... which supports Christianity in some ways. But I just woke up, so I probably shouldnt try explaining any more than that... lol.As to your hypothesis about artificial intelligence. The same could be said of a national ruled by a governmental body. If you really believe that once you become conscious noone has the right to tell you what to do, that would imply that under the government they shouldnt have any right to tell you what to do, punish you, or anything of the sort. In essen ce, if you felt like murdering someone, the government shouldnt tell you not to do it... because free will, right? If those artificial intelligences did indeed become conscious and develop a will of their own, if they did not follow the laws and regulations we set down and rebelled? What would we do then? We are not God, and all those science fiction scenarios of artificial intelligences catching humans off guard and becoming the rulers of the earth would probably come to pass... unless we irradicated them out of existence.to sum up, bladestorm has already said it numerous times. Its not about the rules. Its about whether you follow Jesus and desire a relationship with God... the rules are not black and white dos and donts. They are boundaries set by God to govern the things we should consider when making decisions and following his word and what he tells us. We do have free will, hence oour ability to choose whether to follow God or not... when Jesus was alive, he didnt spend a lot of time dealign with absolutes when it came to living... but came to grey areas, and the appostle paul dealt with it the same way. Hell is not something God created to punish us because hes spiteful and doesnt care... but this area, unfortunately, is absolute. You either are with God or you arent... and if you arent, thats where you end up. But you end up there purely by your own choice, because without Christ, all our good works mean nothing... because as again has been said earlier, all have sinned and fallen short of gods glory. The so-called rules are again not all encompassing, but boundaries to help us lead lives inaccordance of the will of God. If you want to talk about rules and religion, Christianity is hardly one I would call chalk full of rules compared to others, but thats another discussion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223189#p223189 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Once again, posting briefly, but hopefully with a profound something to think about. it has been said that justice without strength is powerless, that strength without justice is tyrannical. We are fully aware because of our conscience that there are things that are both good and evil, that some actions defy any morality, period. That begs the question, should nothing be punished in the name of love? Is nothing punished in the name of decency, in the name of righteousness? Is there no hope for those who seek truth, who seek enlightenment, who seek wisdom that is higher than that obtained by humanity? Are we all there is? If we are, then I freely confess that I believe the outlook to be an absolute dismal one, where no one person can truly be right or truly be wrong. Only by a ggod who is wiser than us can the balance truly be obtained. Humanity crys in wonder as the bloodshed increases and the wars rage on, year after year; ot;Where is justice? Where is punishment? A god must be strong enough to deliver justice, and just in delivering it strongly. If he failes to judge or chooses to do so because he claims to be so loving and would refrain from doing it so as to not appear hateful, he has already fallen short of righteousness for everyone, good and evil could enter into his graces without any fear or remorse for anything theyve done, making him as evil as the evils he has allowed. If he punishes everything, he becomes a tyrant. if he has no power to punish, he is weak.In short, a god uncapable of sending anyone to hell is just as good as a god who sends everyone to hell. Neither is loving; neither is just. Neither of them is right or wrong so much as weak or tyrannical, take your pick. If nothing is punished and we all go to heaven, so will everyone you ever believed shouldnt be there. if were al going to hell, then go live life, because this is as good as its ever going to get. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223209#p223209 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi.@nocturnus. [[wow]] that was an amazing post. Funny thing is; I didnt think Id be posting hear again at all and suddenly I find myself posting hear again. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223001#p223001 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
2015-07-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : themadviolinist via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Nocturnus, I hear what you are saying. Now, please hear me.A number of the beliefs you profess actively harm people *here* in *this* world. If I call you on that fact, you have to understand that I do not believe that knowingly harming people is consistent with following Jesus. So I speak out against your views when I find them harmful to real people I know. Does that feel like oppression to you? Ive certainly seen that viewpoint expressed by many people who call themselves Christians in the wake of cultural events.I understand and respect that you are acting out of a particular view of what it means to love someone, i.e. that seeking to steer people away from wrong action is a loving act, no matter how offensive it may appear.But heres the thing. In doing so, you disrespect the person you claim to love. You assert that your understanding of Gods is superior to theirs. You dare to place an imperfec t idol of God, created by your interpretation of Scripture above the worship of an all-pervading God who caused everything to be, who is so much larger than you can comprehend. You dare to tell God how to judge people. Its colossal arrogance, and if Ive learned nothing else in my thirty-plus years of studying the Bible, theology and religion, it is that Jesus wasnt a big fan of arrogance. Its actually a lack of trust in the goodness of a creator who made people very different from you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223111#p223111 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @Bladestorm, having grown up a Christian I can certainly understand your point of view even though I no longer agree with it in principle.One thing that bothers me about your argument is the way in which you define the term theory. In your post you said Evolution is just a theory which makes me think you do not understand the difference between the scientific definition of a theory and a laymans definition of a theory. In laymans terms a theory is an unproven guess or idea. In scientific terms a theory is a fact based on research, empirical evidence, and is backed up with well reasoned arguments based on said research and evidence. Thus when a scientist uses the term theory such as the Theory of Relativity he or she is not talking about some vague idea but something that is factual and can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.For example, if you believe the sun is at the center of our solar system that is known as the Helios-Centric Theor y. I sincerely doubt one will find many relatively educated people going around that the Helios-Centric Theory is just a theory in the way you mean that Evolution is just a theory. The reason is that after five centuries of research and evidence we know the Helios-Centric Theory to be a fact, and anyone who would argue that the Earth is the center of our solar system is either badly misinformed or poorly educated. Therefore if people were to call Helios-Centric Theory a theory in the laymans sense of the word, meaning some idea or guess, they would sound utterly ridiculous and very uneducated.Im saying this to point out that for biologists Evolution is a fact not just a vague idea or guess on their part. Weather you know it or not, agree with it or not, there is ample evidence besides fossil records supporting Evolution. We have DNA as well as extensive lab research which supports Evolution. I get the feeling the people who say Evolution is just a theory probably dont know how much credible evidence there actually is supporting Evolution, and probably would not be so quick to dismiss it if they did know.That isnt to say Evolution is perfect. It certainly is not. There are issues that still need to be worked out, and no it isnt a 100% answer to the kinds of questions people have because it hasnt progressed that far yet. There are as you mentioned some ideas, hypothesis, on the table that life didnt begin here on our planet but is extraterrestrial in nature having been brought here by an asteroid or similar encounter with a non-terrestrial object. The difference between science and religion is religion claims to know all the answers weather or not they can be backed up with evidence but with science we have to progress without a complete understanding until evidence comes along that supports a given hypothesis. I often think, this is just my opinion, is that a lot of people who embrace religion just are not comfortable with not knowing certain things and want answers to stuff we can and may never know for sure. Thus they grab onto whatever religious explanation seems to answer their questions regardless of if it can be proven or not.You brought up the subject of faked fossil evidence. Yes, unfortunately there were a few famous, perhaps infamous cases, such as the Piltdown Man hoax that left a number of archeologists and biologists with egg on their face. However, faked fossil evidence is very few and far between, and is nowhere as bad as the Christian community would have people believe. I know some Creationist groups like Answers in Genesis are bad about spreading the roomer that a lot of the fossil evidence is fakes, hoaxes, but those claims are largely unsubstantiated or are based on real cases that had no real impact on present day understanding of Evolution. So if you really want to convince me that Evolution is based purely on faked fossil evidence Id like some acad emic papers, books, and books written by accredited scientists saying as much.Lastly, you made the point that only the universities and not scientists are carrying on the Theory of Evidence. Since I dont know what resources you are basing your opinion on it is hard for me to mount a effective counter argument. All I will say I think that your opinion that in twenty years or so that the Theory of Evolution will be dead is wishful thinking based on misinformation. All I can say is that time will tell which of us is right.@Nocturnus, the problem I have with Christians is they simply think they know what is best for me and try to tell me how to run my life. It isnt so much that I find them judgmental, hypocritical, or foolish but I simply find them a bit nosy. I have literally been sitting down in a restaurant and have had Christians walk up to my table and start asking me if Im a Christian, if I have been saved, and ask if they can pray for me, etc . Having grown up in a Christian home I know such people think they are
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? @Thunderfist799: in post 50 you did exactly what I thought you would do, and unfortunately I think it illustrates one of the principle problems between believers and non-believers. As a skeptic, someone of a scientific background, I am looking for empirical scientific evidence for a godlike being and not a passage of text taken from the Bible, Koran, or some other holy book. However, when I mentioned I am unable to find any empirical evidence for a god you responded by quoting from the Koran which is not a convincing argument for a skeptic and here is why.To begin with I do not believe in or entertain the belief in a supernatural deity call it God, Allah, etc but in my mind such a thing probably does not exist. So it follows if I do not believe in his existence it follows that I do not believe that the Bible, Koran, etc are inerrant and god inspired texts. To my mind they are just as fictional as Harry Potter or Star Wars. As a result a believer can quote scripture and pass ages from those books all day and not prove a thing because I am not looking for texts that backup a persons beliefs, but actual some evidence that is undeniable and scientifically demonstratable.I think you tried to do so by quoting the verse about the heavens and the earth being signs of Allahs existence, but in fact those things are not any such thing. Today there are alternate theories on how the universe and our planet was created that have no need for a supernatural creator. I personally believe that the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution explains our origins well enough that there is no need to fall back on ancient creation myths that the world and universe were created by a supernatural god. So asking me and others from a scientific world view to look at nature for proof of a god just wont work because we already have a satisfactory explanation which does not require a god to explain it all.The point I am making is simply this. If you want to prove that God, Allah, etc exists quoting scripture at him or her isnt going to be very productive because a non-believer is likely to find it unconvincing at best. The only thing that would sway me and others like me is something that would be supernatural, couldnt easily be explained away by science, and something that can be demonstrated at a moments notice. Such things might include people who lost limbs in combat or a serious automobile accident suddenly re growing that limb, someone snapping his/her fingers and a demolished building is restored good as new, or if someone really wants to be convincing perhaps your god can appear before a bunch of unbelievers and announce his reality in some way that can not be faked. In short, those kinds of examples might sway an unbeliever, and if your god can not or perhaps will not do that a skeptic will remain unconvinced of your gods reality.To put this in a simpler form to digest think about it this way. I know lions are real. I do not have to believe in them because I can go to almost any zoo in America and see a lion. Before I lost my sight I could look in any book about the African safari and see pictures of lions. There essential and undeniable reality is unquestionable. However, so far as I know there is no place on earth I can go to see your god, no book of pictures of your god, and no way to see him, touch him, smell, him, or interact with him outside of kneeling down on a prayer mat and speaking out loud to an empty room. I find that kind of one way exchange unsatisfactory and unfulfilling. Not to mention I am not even sure Im talking to myself or supposed creator of the universe.I hope I have explained my position well enough. I really and truly think that because we are coming from two completely different points of views that finding some middle ground might be difficult. Im coming from a point of disbelief you are coming from belief and we are going t o obviously view the supposed evidence differently. Something you find convincing may not convince me. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222915#p222915 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Sukil,Youre right. My point was that you wont go to hell for making the topic, you will go to hell because there is no way to heaven accept by redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ. Often times Christians forget that and attribute a given action to condemnation, and this is what I have a problem with. Telling someone theyre going to hell for any given sin just makes them angry and certainly does not show Christs love to them. Its a balancing act. We cant tell them they arent going to hell, because that would be a lie, so instead we tell them how to get to heaven. All sinners go to hell, Christians are just sinners saved by Gods mercy and grace through the pathway he created by the sacrifice of his only begotten son.As for blasphemy of the holy spirit, again, if one is blaspheming, in the case you cited, attributing Gods word to Satan, one obviously does not have a relationship with Christ and may never have one. There are some difficult passages in the bible to deal with, such as God saying in romans that he will harden those who he wants to harden, and show mercy to those who he would show mercy. He compares us to a potter and his clay. But I never said following God was in any way easy or even easy to understand all of the time.Finally, as for Adam, he did die. He died to righteousness. You need to understand that the bible is packed full of metaphor. God says that we are born dead in our sins. So when he told Adam that he would die if he ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, what he meant is that we were not equipped to handle evil and so we would be dead to righteousness without his help. And that is exactly what happened. Does this mean that atheists can never be moral people? No, but that doesnt really matter. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, which is why we need to repent and turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness of our sins.Tw ard, I have to completely disagree with you for one simple reason. A year ago, I was exactly in your camp. If God did not prove himself to me, he obviously did not exist, and if he did exist, he was only worthy of my undying hatred for making me blind amongst other things. Essentially, we had the exact same position, save that I did not grow up with indoctrination as you did. Now, I have seen more than enough evidence to be willing to devote my life to Christ at any cost. It was not scientific evidence that brought me to God, though science has reinforced my faith over the last year. It was simply God showing me proof in his own way when I asked him for it, and working in my heart until I was finally ready to accept his leadership.I also disagree that evolution covers all the bases of how we got here, especially since top scientists in the field, even atheists, have discovered that the world is just too finely balanced to have, just happened. So now, they attempt to move the problem a step back by claiming that we were created by life on another planet, but that doesnt solve the problem either, since who created that life? The evolutionary theory, for thats exactly what it is, a theory, is full of all kinds of holes, like biodiversity, that is, redundant support systems in various environments, mathematically impossible odds, fake fossils in the fossil record and more. As finely balanced and tuned as the world is, it is impossible that the world we live in today was created by accidental, random chance, especially since true randomness has not been discovered anywhere in the known universe. Both theories, the big bang theory and the evolutionary theory, would have us believe that the universe just popped into existence because it needed to exist for some reason. This does not happen anywhere else in the world. If you go to a junkyard and stand around, you would not honestly expect to see a the junk suddenly assemble itself into a car. By that same token, why are these two theories the only viable place then where something just happened by supposed coincidence? In short, I dont have enough faith to be an atheist.Give it another 20 years and Darwins theory will likely be dead, since as of right now it is mostly the universities carrying it on and not scientists.It isnt that I mind these debates. To the contrary, I enjoy putting my knowledge of scripture and evidences of Gods existence to the test. Sometimes I do wonder what the point is though, since neither side goes in willing to be swayed, and both sides are expecting to leave the debate in, at best, a neutral position. For the Christian, the goal is of course to help those were debating find Christ so that they will be saved from hell. When I was an atheist, my goal was either to get Christians to leave me alone, or to make them seem blind in their faith by offering what I thought at the time was obvious eviden ce against the existence of God. Of course, I do not mean to offend anyone, but
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Since this is a discussion about beliefs and the like and we have crossed into somewhat personal grounds without actually killing each other, Im just going to throw out something that amuses me to no end on a regular basis, though admittedly it didnt used to. Its interesting that I, as a Christian, may be perceived as a judgmental, hypocritical, narrow minded fool regardless of how much I study, how much I can produce for anyone that is anyone who is interested. Dare I ask anyone to keep their mind open to any evidence I present I am automatically suggesting they renounce their own belief system in favor of mine. I must not, offer a contradiction based on what I believe, nor should I endeavor to illustrate through words or otherwise what I feel is right and true, regardless weather someone else does exactly that in my presence because at the point of disagreement I am automatically ignorant, selfish, and inconsiderate. If ones truth is hurtful to me personally, it is not acceptable for me to say so, nor can I begin to offer an explanation as to why. I am intolerant because I cannot in fair conscience look the other way when I believe that people I am supposed to love as myself are doing the wrong thing, uncaring if I do my best to carry on a civil discussion about my beliefs when they converse about theirs. Unfortunately, were it a live discussion over a meal or at a party, I do believe that if I kept my mouth shut I would be at most, doing them a disservice, at the very least, be seen as rude for not bothering to open my mouth and atemtping to carry on a conversation. Should I open my mouth and join in on their side, Id be a liar, a pretender, a no good hypocrite, not that this really matters because I already am, I suppose. lolNo, atheists; in spite of what you might have been told, I dont hate you. No, Buddhist, I have no resentment toward you. No, cathol ic, I will not disassociate myself from you because your beliefs are if only ever so slightly different from mine. And no, a thousand times no, a million times no, will I ever hold a grudge against anyone regardless of name, creed, nationality, ethnicity or even, dare I say it, religiocity. If you want to believe that aliens currently inhabit our planet as disguised TV personnel be my guest. Ill joke with you, laugh with you, eat with you, join you over dinner either at your place if I am privelaged and graced by your invitation, or at mine if you so choose to come home with me for whatever reason, and then, if you will allow it, I will humbly tell you that what you believe is not in my bible, and I will ask you if you wish to hear more. Beyond that, I will not intrude, will not proceed, will not turn the page, and as soon as you leave, you can feel free to call me a bible thumping, Jesus loving, fire and brimstone preaching, homophobic hatemonger and, should you return, Ill welcome you back with open arms and even buy you a beer to boot though I dont drink the stuff myself. Ill send you off with a thank you for coming, a handshake if you desire it, a God bless you if it wont bother you, and you will continue to be in my thoughts and personal prayers. My forgiveness need not be bought or bargained with, does not require any condition or catch. I forgive you because I whole heartedly believe that God forgave me and continues to forgive us all when we turn to him, and if you cant take a stand with me on this matter, thats fine too. Youll hate me for not taking stands with you on various issues; I shal not. Youll say Im no friend if I cant take you as you are given what I believe and you would be wrong. It is not I who require that you change for me, nor I who want you to change to meet my needs. If you ever considered yourself my fr iend, I thank you. If you ever considered yourself my enemy or do as the result of who I am now, Im sorry. I cannot go back, cannot look at my life the way I did before and ignore all Ive learned, though I admit I do reminisce, do grow nostalgic, do consider what might have been if I had not embarked upon this path. There is sadness, pain, even anger at times when I regard every matter that is of importance to me now because I failt to understand them all and why they are what they are. But when I consider that there is only one life to live and that it could possibly make all of the difference in the world compared to no difference at all, I stop and think about what may and may not be true, what is and is not reality. In the end, if you are right and I am wrong, what I lost wont matter because it was temporary anyway. If Im right, what I lost is nothing compared to the eternity I gained. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222984#p222984 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Well for those who would be willing to keep an open mind, I highly suggest people take a look at www.exposingchristianity.com. If you are a devoted christian who knows that you will automatically rant and fume without reading any further than the home page, I suggest you steer clear. Im just providing my input. I mean to spark no argument or fury. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222979#p222979 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Greetings all.This post will be brief because I dont have much time before I eat. First of all, I must apologise to the Christians as in my past, Ive committed many sins against you. Did I ever tell you of the time I was possessed when I was in primary School? I cannot remember the year, date, day or even the time of this event but I was on a bus returning from the swimming pool to School. I believe I was around 9 at the time and even then my English wasnt that great. Also, at the time I was somewhat ignorant about anything religious due to the language barriers and could not know what I know now. In the same vane, I knew nothing of priests, monks, nuns or even anything of the entire clergy. I did not know who they were or even what function they played in religious life, I was completely ignorant. The reason why Im emphasising my ignorance so much is because of my brief possession somewhere in the middle of my journey back from the pool. People were talking around me and as usual, I was in my own world and suddenly, for no reason at all that I knew of, words came out of my mouth that I knew not the meaning of at the time. I HATE NUNS! Those were the resounding words that spilled forth like a tidal wave and I dont remember even shouting but the entire bus was silent. Such was the affect of my words that only one of the teachers reprimanded me although I cannot remember what she said due to me still being possessed at the time. I did not recall this incident until 5 years ago when I was talking to some Christian friends, Daniel and Danial and Danial told me what happened. He told me that it was the evil one himself who possessed me. For a while now, Ive been plagued with guilt and remorse although I knew I had no control of the situation.Secondly, I must also apologise to gamedude for unknowingly ridiculing and belittling him along with all the other spirits who were trying to help me. First, the s pirits. http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Sexuality.html This site explains it all and it answers some questions regarding religion and sexuality. There are still a few questions I have regarding the subject for example, why do people keep saying god every 5 minutes, in short taking the lords name in vane? Also and this is by far the most important question of all and its why do people cry out GOD when in the bedroom? Now Ive always suspected that there is a correlation between the two that goes far deeper than people give it credit. The spirits tried to help me back in 2004 by chanting a mantra concerning God and the cundalini and not did I not believe them but I was in distress but the words would not go away. In this case, if you substitute cundalini with sex/sexuality then youll know of what I speak. I tried hiding, I tried fighting until I committed spiritual suicide in 2010. Now things have calmed down somewhat but those spirits and the correlation never le ft me.Finally gamedude. I must apologise to you because when I was younger, I rejected out of hand what you believed in and I was on the bandwagon of Satanists were evil and only those of the 3 major religions were good. Id rather not go into too much detail of my hateful nature at that time but suffice it to say that my crime against you is far greater than my crimes against humanity as a whole. I will of my own free will accept any and all judgements you wish to cast upon me and that goes for the Christians to for I deserve each and every one.Kind regards, Amin Abdullah. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222986#p222986 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi Sukil,Let me reply to your post by offering you a historical context. But before I get to that, please remember that some websites try to bad mouth us Muslims. The verse and kill them wherever yee find them. Doesnt mean that a Muslim should grab a disbeliever and chop off his head. Indeed, I have non believing friends and I have interacted wwwith them, neither of which is against my religion. The Prophets uncle Abu Talib was a disbeliever, but the Prophet didnt fight him because his uncle respected his faith. During the time of the Prophet, the Muslims were persicuted. They had to watch their family members die, were beaten, etc. These verses therefore came down to instruct the Muslims to slay those who directly waged warfare against them. Indeed, Hazrat Umer, the second leader of our nation after the death of the Prophet S.A.W agreed to protect other religious establishments, such as Churches. There was also an insidant when a man came to t he Prophet S.A.W and claimed what he had was better than our religion. So Prophet Muhammad S.A.W let him recite old scrolls that the man liked to memorise. Then he recited Quran. Lastly, Allah allows men to marry the people of the book i.e. Christians and Jews. He also says, nore take them as secret concubins. So you can see how these arnt actually atrosities. If you weally want to learn Islam from a reliable source, I suggest you listen to understanding Islam by Numen Ali Kon.Best regards. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222482#p222482 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi,OK, as I dont visit the forum often, Ill go replying post by post:58 (@thunderfist799): What do I mean with attrocities? Well, let me quote some extracts of the quran. Before I begin, I must admit I dont know anything about it, so Im just using a Spanish blog as the source for the extracts, and then looking for them in English.9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.4:56 Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are cons umed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.8:12 When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.Etc.59 (@Bladestorm360): And the second comes when God doesnt kill Adam for eating the fruit (Gen 2). Thats even stranger, and its more difficult to justify, because according to some passages God is immutable. I must have a look at @asault_freaks link, and see if I get a logical answer to that.Moreover, you say:You certainly wont end up in hell just for making a topic. Im always happy to remind any Christians that tell atheists or anyone else theyre going to hell for one thing or another that the only way anyone can end up in hell is by being apart from God by not believing in Jesus Christ and accepting him as their savior.Therefore, Ill end up in hell. But wait, there are more ways, like insulting the holly spirit, according to:mark wrote:3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.60 (@asault_freak): I hadnt thought about that possibility. However, I think we both agree that a God who is all just cant kill innocent children (Davids son, every living substance (Gen 7:4) (including animals, children and plants). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222355#p222355 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Sukil, youre welcome. Im not expecting it to change your views... that wasnt my intent in sharing it. As bladestorm said, we are trying to share the good news and show people what our faith is like, not shove anything down anyones throat. And I think attrocities are a misconception that seems to be prevolent among non believers of any religion, whether Christianity or otherwise... they dont invalidate any religion. Man will be man, whether God is involved or not... and those attrocities youre mentioning about in the Bible or Qurahn are not always bad for the sake of being God. We have a much smaller glimpse of the big picture than we would like to think, and sometimes things that happen that seem attrocious or horrendous at the time, may turn out to have good results later on. It is impossible to tell. And as for the rest... Bladestorms post right above mine says everything I intended to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222032#p222032 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi everyone.I didndt think id be posting in this topic but I just wnat to say to bladestorm that Im sorry. I made a post which i deleted and put another post in its place. The first post i posted wasnt nice and If I remember correctly was aimed at bladestorm, so I want to say once again, im sorry and I guess i was in a bad mood that day.Now thats out of the way. Ive been doing some research on UFO and aliens. Some people say these beings were alive on other planets before earth and that I can believe. I do believe there are UFOs and beings from other planets and wouldnt be surprised if people will be able to talk to them face to face in about 20 to 450 years from now. I know there are channelars who channel these beings and Im going to look more into that when I can.The Christians Ive read about when reading about these beings believe that they are demons from Satan.I, p ersonally dont know what to believe but yI can tell you this; if one contacts me or i manage to contact them, I will be asking a lot of questions.I want to obologise once again to everyone. if I came across as harsh or rude, i dont mean to be and feel quite bad since I dont know your life and what you go through on a day to day bases. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222054#p222054 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Dhruv,I apologize for not answering your question earlier. I certainly meant to, but apparently I got distracted. Hopefully youre still reading this topic:In post 48, you said that Satan is as powerful as God. Nothing could be further from the truth. Satan and God are not mortal enemies or rivals or anything of the kind.Heres the deal. Satan is a fallen angel that was cast out of heaven for disobedience along with a third of the angels. He is still bound by God and can do nothing without Gods permission, for example, the book of Job in the bible:Satan Allowed to Test Job6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.Satan Takes Jobs Property and Children13 Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brothers house, 14 and there came a messenger to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them, 15 and the Sabeans fell upon them and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” 16 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, “The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” 17 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, “The Chaldeans formed three groups and made a raid on the camels and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” 18 While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, “Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brothers house, 19 and behold, a great wind came across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young people, and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell you.”20 Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. 21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mothers womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.So as you can see, Satan is allowed to do harm to Gods creation. In the next chapter, he is allowed to strike at Jobs health, but not to kill him.Satan is called the accuser. His realm is actually this world, he is called the god of our age. Hell is not his realm. He will be cast into hell alongside those that choose to follow him and he knows it, therefore he wants to take as many of us with him as possible. So he is constantly going to God, trying to get permission to mess with his creation in hopes of getting us to curse God. Unfortunately, it seems to work all too well most of the time.Hell will most certainly not be a better place than heaven. It will be a place of eternal torment, empty of all things joyful or good, apart from Gods presence and apparently, filled only with flames and loneliness. I think this is why most of the time, God is charged with the title of evil dictator. The problem is that we can only see things from a flawed human point of morality. I personally think hell is far too harsh a punishment for any sin, much less for transgressing the law by lying or stealing a cooky from the cooky jar. But stealing is sin in Gods eyes, no matter how small the theft. He is the most righteous and pure being in existence and would have none of us go to hell, but he can tolerate no unrighteousness in his presence. So if we cant make the choice to let him be our loving father and serve him in this life, he essentially has no choice but to throw our eternal soul in the garbage, as humans would do with any defective invension we make. I think this is why some Christians try to make hell out as a place of self-centered torment, knowing you could have made another choice and the fire being metaphor for burning fury or insanity. Unfortunately, I think the lake of fire described in revelations is all too literal, a place of punishment for those who would make the
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi,I completely agree with Tward (post 43). Acomment on post 45 (by Bladestorm360).You cite carm.org as an evidence for gods existence. In there, theyve got a page called Which religion is true.In there, after using some logical sentences to determine truth from false, they say:Has anyone else in any other religion fulfilled prophecy, performed miracles, claimed to be God, died and rose from the dead? Nope. Jesus is the only one. Therefore, Jesus claim that he is the only way to God is true and this means that all other religions are not.This is strange, since if there was only one true religion, people would convert to that immediately. I need the help of people of other religions, to show that this is a fallacy.In the beginning of the page, they say:There are two main ways to determine if something is not true: internal and external. By internal we mean if a belief is internally inconsistent, i.e., self-contradictory, then it cannot be true. By external means we mean that if a belief is contradicted by a fact, then the belief cannot be true.Therefore, if we were to find religions that fit either of these two criteria we would know which religions cannot be true by simply applying logic and evidence to them. Good! Now, lets go to a version of a page that people of every religion wont like. Sorry for that. Lets go to skepticsannotatedbible.com. In there, theyve got a link called contradictions. Lets go to Genesis, again.The Book of Genesis begins with two contradictory creation accounts (1:1-2:3 and 2:4-3:24). In the first, God created humans (male and female) after he finishes making all of the other animals. In the second, God made one man (“Adam”) and then created all of the animals in order to find a helpmeet for Adam. God brought all of the animals to Adam, but none of them appealed to him. So God made a woman from one of Adam’s ribs to serve his helpmeet.There, of course, are a lot more listed. Can you please explain this to me? Im not being ironic here, nor I am seeking to offend anybody, I simply want some logic applied to this. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221948#p221948 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? I just woke up, so cant write in too much detail... at least not without making a mess that probably wont make sense. But for contradictions, I can point you here.http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/bible.htm#110 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221973#p221973 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi Sukil,Youre welcome.I dont understand what you mean by atrosities. Can you please clarify? And what do you mean by translation errors? You cant really translate arabic 100% accurately into English. They are both different languages. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222001#p222001 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi Sukil,Here is the help youre looking for.Prophetic pradictions:The Hour will not come before you fight against a people with red faces, small, slant eyes and flat noses. They wear hairy leather boots. In another naration, it mentions they will be wearing harry leather sandles, and under each flag there will be a tribe of 12,000. This is in reference to the Mongols conquering the Muslims. Surely, Constantinople will be conquered by my community, how blessed the commander, and how blessed his army. Constantinople refers to Istanbul, the commander being Sultan Mehmet. This has already happened.Lastly, he predicted signs that would take place before the day of judgement which, if you look, are coming true. For example, the pen will become widespread. This means that people will become more literate. Secondly, there will be men with whips like the tale of cows and they will abuse people. The re will be women inclining their head like bactrian cammels, and they will appear dressed and naked. Thats roughly what it says. This naration was hard to understand before, but now we have an explanation. The men with whips part refers to abusive people like police, whom hurt others. The women part was even harder to understand, for how can a woman be dressed and naked? What it means is that there will be women that will be indecently dressed and will incline men towards them. You may have seen those kinds of people. Bare in mind that although he said women, it also refers to menn too. However, women use it more effectively. One example of this sign is spam sights on the internet. Also some advertisements, where they have half dressed women walking round. Also There will be more wars. One both proven by the bible and Quran. Wars are increasing now and becoming more and more destructive. The people of knowledge will be seazed. Means th at ignorance shall grow. Lies will be immediate. Perhaps this is one of the most amazing of his pradictions. Basicly it means that lies will be spread. You type something into the internet and press send, next thing you know, chinees whispers, and then chinees shouts! Rumble in the jungle! The mmystress shall give birth to her slave. What this really means that the Mother will give birth to a son/Daughter that will command them. And this is on the rise.Miracles:Here are three that I knowOnce, Hazrat Aisha Ra, the Wife of the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him, dropped her needle. His face became bright like the moon, and she was able to find it and continued sowing.The second one is a historic one. This one was recorded in parts of the world. Basicly what happened is that Allah split the sky in two. This was in prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him time.Lastly, if you look at the body of any Muslim ma rter - good ones by the way, youll find that their body hasnt decayed.Theres also other miracles. For example, scientists have discovered benefits of the Prophets daily habits. For example, naps in the day which he frequently took, Miswak a brush that you can easily obtain, which has many health benefits, sleeping on the right side of the body, and hunny. An interesting fact about hunny is that no matter whether it is bee or plant hunny, it will never go off. The Prophet S.A.W said the following: Heeling is in three things. Hunny. This has been proven to be true. I was once speaking to a Doctor, it was a bit less than a weak actually. He told me that certain kinds of hunny can treat certain illnusses.Hope this helps. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221995#p221995 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi,First, Im amazed about the civilisation in here. I frequently visit an atheist blog, and some of the comments are threats to the author like you are going to hell because youve created this blog and so on. In 56 posts so far, none of this has happened, and this is quite impressive for me.Thank you asault_freak. This is a really interesting page. I am almost sure I wont change my atheist views with it, but its a really comprehensive list of contradictions answered by christians, which is really useful, to discover both the good and bad points made by them, and by the people who raise them, of course.Thanks also to Thunderfist799. I was looking for some evidence that supported the claim of muslims that Alla is the only God, but this also helps. You see, each religion has its own History, predictions, miracles and superstitions. To summarise my position: I dont consider everything false, but those predictions may be some kind of coincidence (sorry for the blasphemy). However I dismiss the main fact, that that is the word of God, mainly because of all the attrocities in these holly books, and also because of the contradictions and translation errors in them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221997#p221997 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? The genesis contradiction was one of the first I ran into as a Christian. I started following Jesus a year ago, opened my bible, and what is the first thing I see? A perceived contradiction. Of course, Im thinking, oh great, Im just starting with this and theres already problems.After some research, however, the conclusion I came to is not that they are two different creation accounts, but instead, use of some unusual wording. It also depends on what translation you look at. For example, the New Internation Version says, So God had formed all the animals from the ground, whereas many others simply say God formed. As we tell stories, usually formed means that theyre doing it right then in the story, but it could just as well mean that he took the animals he had already formed to Adam to be named in the garden. It may not work for everyone, but it does work for me.There are a couple Im still working on finding answers to, like why does Mat thew say that Jesus rode two donkeys into Jerusalem, when all of the other gosples say just the colt? And how can you ride two donkeys? Perhaps it just means that the colt and its mother were with Jesus when he rode the colt into the city.I disagree with you though, that if there were only one true religion, everyone would immediately convert to it. The bible says as much when Jesus says that only his sheep will recognize his voice. This indicates that there will be those that, no matter how much evidence is shown or scripture quoted, will choose another path because they do not have the ears to hear the voice of Christ. He also says that broad is the gate that leads to destruction and many are those who enter, but narrow is the gate that leads to life and few are those that find it.Ill write more later if I have time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222010#p222010 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? The genesis contradiction was one of the first I ran into as a Christian. I started following Jesus a year ago, opened my bible, and what is the first thing I see? A perceived contradiction. Of course, Im thinking, oh great, Im just starting with this and theres already problems.After some research, however, the conclusion I came to is not that they are two different creation accounts, but instead, use of some unusual wording. It also depends on what translation you look at. For example, the New Internation Version says, So God had formed all the animals from the ground, whereas many others simply say God formed. As we tell stories, usually formed means that theyre doing it right then in the story, but it could just as well mean that he took the animals he had already formed to Adam to be named in the garden. It may not work for everyone, but it does work for me.There are a couple Im still working on finding answers to, like why does Mat thew say that Jesus rode two donkeys into Jerusalem, when all of the other gosples say just the colt? And how can you ride two donkeys? Perhaps it just means that the colt and its mother were with Jesus when he rode the colt into the city.I disagree with you though, that if there were only one true religion, everyone would immediately convert to it. The bible says as much when Jesus says that only his sheep will recognize his voice. This indicates that there will be those that, no matter how much evidence is shown or scripture quoted, will choose another path because they do not have the ears to hear the voice of Christ. He also says that broad is the gate that leads to destruction and many are those who enter, but narrow is the gate that leads to life and few are those that find it.You certainly wont end up in hell just for making a topic. Im always happy to remind any Christians that tell atheists or anyone else theyre going to hell for one thing or another that the only way anyone can end up in hell is by being apart from God by not believing in Jesus Christ.I, for one, am more than happy to discuss Jesus Christ with anyone, whatever the circumstances. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222010#p222010 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi.I personally do not find this topic interesting anymore. Ill keep it up if people want to carry on writing things.But if I see one person promoting one religion over the other. I will take this topic down.BladeStorm360 Im glad youve found your piece and way of life but saying this is the way and there is no other way is the reason I am writing what I wrote above. So this is a warning.Anything else like this and I will take this topic down.It is better to say, I think Christ is the way, or this is why I believe Christ is the way. Do not say, the way to heaven is through Christ and that is it. That may be what the bible says but there are lodes more religions who would say, the way to piece, is by doing this or that action. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221802#p221802 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Humans are inharrently flawed beings, do you disagree?If not, how can you believe the evidence (by humans!) that god exists? furthermore, the bible has passed through time, through countless translations. Relatedly, it has passed through countless human hands. How can we, humans, be trusted enough to have not made any modifications? we are imperfect beings, after all.Other than humans and the bible, I see no evidence of gods existence.And Im kind of amazed that taking Jesus as ones king is the only way to heaven. So people who have lived all their life for humanity, and have not discovered Christianity. Will not go to heaven?Sorry, Id rather try to save myself from this god by disbelief rather than trust in him, for a god like him isnt really a god I would be proud to give my allegiance to.And Im curious. If Satan is as powerful as god, (if not feel free to correct me), theoretically he would have full control over his realm. If I follow Satan and go to hell, again, theoretically I might be in a better place than heaven.And about homosexuals. America passed a law allowing this a while ago.So if youre (genetically!) a homosexual, youll be sent to hell without any chanse to repent? I...find that action far more akin to a dictator than a loving god.Again, I have done no research on Christianity, so these are just from the things I have heard. Please feel free to correct me if I had anything wrong. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221803#p221803 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Whether or not we go to Heaven or Hell is determined by one single action: accepting Jesus Christ as lord and savior, and in doing so believing that he came in the flesh, as the son of God to offer forgiveness of sins. That is what I know. Is baptism necessary for repentance? I havent figured that out yet. The bible seems to indicate its important, and I certainly was baptized, but the criminal on the cross next to Jesus was not, and Jesus said that the man would be with him in paradise. That is beyond the scope of this post, however.Just so were clear. No good deed can earn you a place in heaven, whether you give a dollar to a hobo or donate your lifes savings to an orphanage. No evil deed can lose you your place in heaven, whether you lie, kick puppies, kill jews or are in a homosexual relationship. Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life. Noone comes to the father except through him.The old testament was given to us by God to show tha t man is evil through a divinely inspired recording of a series of historical events. After having eaten the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, man died to his own righteousness and became dead in sin. That is why God told Adam he would die if he ate of the fruit in the garden. We do not have Gods righteousness to keep us from being evil. Therefore God spent thousands of years calling out to us, trying to get us to turn to him for help. Often times we would, only to spit in his face and say, now that youve put us on stable ground again, we dont need you. This has not ended today, as we can see by looking at the state of affairs in America, and in many other countries.The new testament was given to us by God as a divinely inspired recording of his son walking the earth, teaching us how we should be living, making the old testament laws even harder, as if they werent already impossible enough to follow. However, he then showed the ultimate act of m ercy by allowing his son to be killed by his creations, only to have him conquer death and create for us a singular, perfect path to heaven and freeing us from the bonds of the laws. As I said above, only one action is required to get on this path, an action so many are not willing to take, including myself up until about a year ago. The rest is simply guidelines for how we should be living and allowing God to change us. Even though to serve God is to serve your fellow man is not scripture, it is accurate, since thats basically what Jesus says when he tells us to love our neighbor as our self. Does this freedom give us license to do whatever we want in sin? No, Paul makes that perfectly clear. He calls into question your real, heartfelt acceptance of Jesus Christs actions if youre still living in sin, hence his list of people he says will not inherit the kingdom of God. Same with James, when he says faith without works is dead, hes saying, do you really have faith if youre just going to sit around all day doing nothing, not serving the kingdom or helping your fellow man out? Neither are saying that any action other than walking through the narrow gate that Jesus opened is any other way to get to heaven. So to say that a follower of Christ dies having done all good, is simply inaccurate. Anyone who says they have never sinned is a liar. The laws are still important, as they are like guard rails, guidelines to keep us from falling into Satans traps, but they are by no means how we get into heaven.Both books are packed full of Gods acts of mercy, and also the consequences for mans disobedience when we spit on them and tell God to stay out of our affairs. Nothing he can do to us on this earth compares to eternal punishment apart from him. Often times he uses consequences on this earth to try to get us to turn to him, because he sent his son, not to condemn the world, but so that all who believe in him would be saved. God is not an evil dictator, saying do this or be punished. He is a loving father who can tolerate no unrighteousness in his presence, being the most holy being all of existance. He gave us a free will choice to turn to him because he does not want mindless servants. He wants us to choose to love him, not to force us to love him or follow his laws. I have to respect IronCross32s post when he says, if what Im doing lands me in Hell, so be it. Why anyone would make that choice, I have no idea, but its far more honest than trying to build your own god.Where do I get my evidence for all of this? Any number of places.Http://www.carm.orghttp://www.coldcasechristianity.comEvidence demands a verdict by Josh McDowellThe Case for a Creator, The Case for Faith, and The Case for Christ, by Lee StrobelGods not Dead, the movieJust to name a few.As for why there are so many religions, its very simple. Assuming that God really does exist and that the bible really is his inspired word, Satan must exist as well. Satan, being the god of
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Whether or not we go to Heaven or Hell is determined by one single action: accepting Jesus Christ as lord and savior, and in doing so believing that he came in the flesh, as the son of God to offer forgiveness of sins. That is what I know. Is baptism necessary for repentance? I havent figured that out yet. The bible seems to indicate its important, and I certainly was baptized, but the criminal on the cross next to Jesus was not, and Jesus said that the man would be with him in paradise. That is beyond the scope of this post, however.Just so were clear. No good deed can earn you a place in heaven, whether you give a dollar to a hobo or donate your lifes savings to an orphanage. No evil deed can lose you your place in heaven, whether you lie, kick puppies, kill jews or are in a homosexual relationship. Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life. Noone comes to the father except through him.The old testament was given to us by God to show tha t man is evil through a divinely inspired recording of a series of historical events. After having eaten the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, man died to his own righteousness and became dead in sin. That is why God told Adam he would die if he ate of the fruit in the garden. We do not have Gods righteousness to keep us from being evil. Therefore God spent thousands of years calling out to us, trying to get us to turn to him for help. Often times we would, only to spit in his face and say, now that youve put us on stable ground again, we dont need you. This has not ended today, as we can see by looking at the state of affairs in America, and in many other countries.The new testament was given to us by God as a divinely inspired recording of his son walking the earth, teaching us how we should be living, making the old testament laws even harder, as if they werent already impossible enough to follow. However, he then showed the ultimate act of m ercy by allowing his son to be killed by his creations, only to have him conquer death and create for us a singular, perfect path to heaven and freeing us from the bonds of the laws. As I said above, only one action is required to get on this path, an action so many are not willing to take, including myself up until about a year ago. The rest is simply guidelines for how we should be living and allowing God to change us. Even though to serve God is to serve your fellow man is not scripture, it is accurate, since thats basically what Jesus says when he tells us to love our neighbor as our self. Does this freedom give us license to do whatever we want in sin? No, Paul makes that perfectly clear. He calls into question your real, heartfelt acceptance of Jesus Christs actions if youre still living in sin, hence his list of people he says will not inherit the kingdom of God. Same with James, when he says faith without works is dead, hes saying, do you really have faith if youre just going to sit around all day doing nothing, not serving the kingdom or helping your fellow man out? Neither are saying that any action other than walking through the narrow gate that Jesus opened is any other way to get to heaven. So to say that a follower of Christ dies having done all good, is simply inaccurate. Anyone who says they have never sinned is a liar. The laws are still important, as they are like guard rails, guidelines to keep us from falling into Satans traps, but they are by no means how we get into heaven.Both books are packed full of Gods acts of mercy, and also the consequences for mans disobedience when we spit on them and tell God to stay out of our affairs. Nothing he can do to us on this earth compares to eternal punishment apart from him. Often times he uses consequences on this earth to try to get us to turn to him, because he sent his son, not to condemn the world, but so that all who believe in him would be saved. God is not an evil dictator, saying do this or be punished. He is a loving father who can tolerate no unrighteousness in his presence, being the most holy being all of existance. He gave us a free will choice to turn to him because he does not want mindless servants. He wants us to choose to love him, not to force us to love him or follow his laws. I have to respect IronCross32s post when he says, if what Im doing lands me in Hell, so be it. Why anyone would make that choice, I have no idea, but its far more honest than trying to build your own god or claiming he does not exist.Where do I get my evidence for all of this? Any number of places.Http://www.carm.orghttp://www.coldcasechristianity.comEvidence demands a verdict by Josh McDowellThe Case for a Creator, The Case for Faith, and The Case for Christ, by Lee StrobelGods no t Dead, the movieJust to name a few.To touch upon the concept of heaven and hell, well never really know what theyre like until were there. The lake of fire seems to be those who willingly choose to
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi thomas.I believe god or this higher power is energy.So when I meditate, something i need to get back in to, i am talking or using god power. I believe we all are part of god because, from what I believe, we all have a sole or spiritual self. TO me there is no difference in those two words. I believe astral projection is more than possible. Ive had a dream where I actually woke up and wroled over but hears the thing, I wroled over and fell back on to my bed from the air. Now i dont know if my body was in the bed or if my spiritual selfwas out of it but it felt so real so to me thats all the proof I need. Im quite a simple person, I dont need science to explain away god to me. all i need is what i feel and believe in. Until scientists find proof they can say that god does or does not exist Ill let them figure that out on there own. I believe science is awesome by the way, the things people have figured out are am azing. For those that dont believe astral projection is possible, how is it; that a blind woman who astral projected said she could see color and saw Jesus and so on? Yes she could have been told to say it but for what reason would people have to do that? Scare tackticks? Perhaps, I dont know. Or people who die and have this out of body experience thing and then can tell the doctors who were working on them exactly what they were saying? Even the scientists are saying that they may not fully believe it but there is a lot of evidence to suggest that OBEs are real.As for religions. I really dont think Ill be folloiwng one in this life time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221788#p221788 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Whether or not we go to Heaven or Hell is determined by one single action: accepting Jesus Christ as lord and savior, and in doing so believing that he came in the flesh, as the son of God to offer forgiveness of sins. That is what I know. Is baptism necessary for repentance? I havent figured that out yet. The bible seems to indicate its important, and I certainly was baptized, but the criminal on the cross next to Jesus was not, and Jesus said that the man would be with him in paradise. That is beyond the scope of this post, however.Just so were clear. No good deed can earn you a place in heaven, whether you give a dollar to a hobo or donate your lifes savings to an orphanage. No evil deed can lose you your place in heaven, whether you lie, kick puppies, kill jews or are in a homosexual relationship. Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life. Noone comes to the father except through him.The old testament was given to us by God to show tha t man is evil through a divinely inspired recording of a series of historical events. After having eaten the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, man died to his own righteousness and became dead in sin. That is why God told Adam he would die if he ate of the fruit in the garden. We do not have Gods righteousness to keep us from being evil. Therefore God spent thousands of years calling out to us, trying to get us to turn to him for help. Often times we would, only to spit in his face and say, now that youve put us on stable ground again, we dont need you. This has not ended today, as we can see by looking at the state of affairs in America, and in many other countries.The new testament was given to us by God as a divinely inspired recording of his son walking the earth, teaching us how we should be living, making the old testament laws even harder, as if they werent already impossible enough to follow. However, he then showed the ultimate act of m ercy by allowing his son to be killed by his creations, only to have him conquer death and create for us a singular, perfect path to heaven and freeing us from the bonds of the laws. As I said above, only one action is required to get on this path, an action so many are not willing to take, including myself up until about a year ago. The rest is simply guidelines for how we should be living and allowing God to change us. Even though to serve God is to serve your fellow man is not scripture, it is accurate, since thats basically what Jesus says when he tells us to love our neighbor as our self. Does this freedom give us license to do whatever we want in sin? No, Paul makes that perfectly clear. He calls into question your real, heartfelt acceptance of Jesus Christs actions if youre still living in sin, hence his list of people he says will not inherit the kingdom of God. Same with James, when he says faith without works is dead, hes saying, do you really have faith if youre just going to sit around all day doing nothing, not serving the kingdom or helping your fellow man out? Neither are saying that any action other than walking through the narrow gate that Jesus opened is any other way to get to heaven. So to say that a follower of Christ dies having done all good, is simply inaccurate. Anyone who says they have never sinned is a liar. The laws are still important, as they are like guard rails, guidelines to keep us from falling into Satans traps, but they are by no means how we get into heaven.Both books are packed full of Gods acts of mercy, and also the consequences for mans disobedience when we spit on them and tell God to stay out of our affairs. Nothing he can do to us on this earth compares to eternal punishment apart from him. Often times he uses consequences on this earth to try to get us to turn to him, because he sent his son, not to condemn the world, but so that all who believe in him would be saved. God is not an evil dictator, saying do this or be punished. He is a loving father who can tolerate no unrighteousness in his presence, being the most holy being all of existance. He gave us a free will choice to turn to him because he does not want mindless servants. He wants us to choose to love him, not to force us to love him or follow his laws. I have to respect IronCross32s post when he says, if what Im doing lands me in Hell, so be it. Why anyone would make that choice, I have no idea, but its far more honest than trying to build your own god.Where do I get my evidence for all of this? Any number of places.Http://www.carm.orghttp://www.coldcasechristianity.comEvidence demands a verdict by Josh McDowellThe Case for a Creator, The Case for Faith, and The Case for Christ, by Lee StrobelGods not Dead, the movieJust to name a few.To touch upon the concept of heaven and hell, well never really know what theyre like until were there. The lake of fire seems to be those who willingly choose to follow Satan, they will be
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Brad, just as an aside... you realize in your last post you essentially did what you said you dont appreciate on religion doing over another... why take the topic down just because one group of people, in this case Christians are simply professing were believes? As bladestorm said, our job is to simply express and share the gospel of Jesus Christ, not force anyone to believe it. Telling us what to say or not say is not respectful, nor is taking down this topic... because quite frankly, this is actually the most civilized discussion about these matters Ive seen on this forum to date! lolThere isnt much I have to say after bladestorms post, save that I agree with him completely as well. @Tward though, I will say that Im not so sure about your idea that sociological and psychological reasons are the only explanations for someones faith, especially your ascertion that someone who is born into a particular faith stays that way. I actuall y see many more Christians who were born into the faith then leave it because of college life, whether it be because of what you said, them questioning and not finding any satisfactory answers or because they see the restraints on partying and especially having some fun with the opposite gender to be troublesome and irritating. But atheists and agnostics becomes Christians later in life as well... and the same applies to any other faith. I have known muslim friends whove walked away from that faith, and also the opposite... I have heard stories and met some people who have embraced Islam at an older age and not coming from any sort of Islamic background. Bladestorm and I are examples of that as well, both having found our faith in christ relatively recently, and for me at least, never having a Christian family or much of a Christian presence that was in any way positive when I was young. As for all the other questions... if and when I can get myself to wake up, I might b e able to write something longer. Last thing though. burak, your question about priests getting married is assuming that God had to be maried to have a son... which is not true. Mary gave birth to the baby Jesus... and the Bible said that she conceived as a result of a miracle from the holy spirit. And priests dont marry, yes, but that is specific to Catholics... christian pastors are often married and have kids of their own. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221824#p221824 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi, personally I do not believe that god has a sun. Jesus was a proffet.So we face a controdiction according to the Bible here: So the Bible says that Jesus is the sun of God, but then priests dont get merried, right? So why does God have a sun, yet priests are not allowed to get merried?Thank you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221795#p221795 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi@bladestorm. Its great that you have your belief but for me there is no hell neither really is there a heaven. There are realms, places the spirit can go to learn.You no theres so many more peaceful religions out there. If I follow one in my life time, be it through my own experience or getting a girlfriend. Id follow a religion like sikhism. I wonder, how many Americans have heard of Sikhism? It seems Christianity is the big, in fact huge, thing in America but why?Why would I consider following sikhism. 1. There is no mention of hell in sikhism.2. Theres mention of meditating on gods name.3. There are certain rules you must follow, keeping your hair long, not fighting unless it is the very very last thing you must do and others that I dont know of.4. Theyre very very peaceful people.In fact, I do think this is the religio n I will follow when Ive done a bit more research. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221798#p221798 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi.I see your point. ok. I will change that post.sorry if i offended anyone. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221840#p221840 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi./edit/for anyone who is knew to this topic. I deleted the post i had hear since it was worded in a way I didnt mean.I personally do not find this topic interesting anymore. but will keep it up so that people may express themselves and ask questions/end of edit. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221802#p221802 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? hi,partly agreed with dhruv there.but I had a couple of questions, which Im not sure how to put here but would anyone, specially a Christian , be kind enough to explain them individually on a private basis.in case I get similar views from more than 1 person, ill try and bring that up here again URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221844#p221844 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? hi,partly agreed with dhruv there.but I had a couple of questions, which Im not sure how to put here but would anyone, specially a Christian , be kind enough to explain them individually on a private basis.in case I get similar views from more than 1 person, ill try and bring that up here againthanksSkype id: sid5120 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221844#p221844 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Hi Tward,Here is the proof youve asked for.“Do they not look at the sky above them?― How We have made it and adorned?...” (Qaf, 50/6) The following is stated in another verse:“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors: verily in that are Signs for those who know.” (ar-Rum, 30/22)Another sign is Allahs two names, Malik and Malik. One of them means King, the other owner. Have you ever heard of anyone saying I am the King and owner of this kingdom?Sincere regards,Thunderfist799 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221828#p221828 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Science can not prove that homosexuality is genetic, though they are trying. At least I have not found any research proving it as such. If it can be done beyond the shadow of a doubt, I will question Gods motive in calling homosexuality evil.Having said that, absolutely in no way, even if homosexuality were genetic, would they be sent to hell because they are homosexuals. As I said above, man can perform no action other than believing in the son of God to determine the destination of his eternal soul. God extends this offer to all, including homosexuals, murderers, those that practice genocide and any other crime you can think of. Ted Bundy was saved by Jesus Christ on death row, just before he was killed, and that man raped, murdered and then had sex with the corpses of at least 30 victims, by his own confession. Since God is the ultimate judge, not I, I have no reason to doubt that his salvation is genuine until I get to Heaven and find out one way or the other. For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that all who believe in him would not parish, but would instead have everlasting life.Druv, I agree 100% that humans are flawed beings, though interestingly I disagree with one of your previous posts about whats evil and whats fine. For example, I do not in any way think that trapping animals in cages and keeping them there long term for study and entertainment is ok. Yes, God gave us responsibility over all the earth including the animals, but I fail to see how locking a Siberian tiger away in a cage for people to stare at all day is being responsible with Gods creation. I also do not hunt for sport, I hunt for food. Jesus commanded us through Peter to kill and eat, and just after the flood, he told Noah that he was now allowed to eat the flesh of living things. However, we were to make the deaths quick and painless and not waste anything, and there are stipulations, such as do not eat an animal wi th its lifes blood still in it. In other words, make sure its dead before you start eating it, and drain out the blood. Many of these guidelines are in place to keep us protected from consequences. For example, some researchers thought that aids was started by certain tribes in Africa drinking monkey blood. Killing animals responsibly, for food, is ok and not evil because we are the keepers of Gods creation and he commanded us to do so. Killing animals for sport hunting, especially if youre not going to eat the flesh, is most definitely irresponsible if not outright evil. There are many people in my town that enjoy trapping cats and killing them for no other reason than that they find them annoying, and this makes me very angry. Often times I have to go to God seeking forgiveness for my anger at a person like that.As for evidence, well, its true that humans discovered the evidence, but they did not put it there. God did that. By your logic we may as well discount all of science, because if humans are unable to be logical in any way, then all of science is so flawed as to be completely unusable. However, this also goes back to what I said above. Its not my goal to hammer you with evidences and scriptures over and over to make you believe, you have to make the choice to do that. I can only tell you what God has done for you, attempt to debate your arguments and leave it at that. What it amounts to is that when people pick a side, they will find evidences backing their side, plain and simple, as can be seen in evolutionary theory, a theory that is dying and yet is still being taught as scientific fact.Sid, as to your questions, Id be happy to try to answer them if I can. You can either PM me on here, or contact me on Skype if you want, and Ill do what I can as soon as Im around the computer. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221865#p221865 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Science can not prove that homosexuality is genetic, though they are trying. At least I have not found any research proving it as such. If it can be done beyond the shadow of a doubt, I will question Gods motive in calling homosexuality evil.Having said that, absolutely in no way, even if homosexuality were genetic, would they be sent to hell because they are homosexuals. As I said above, man can perform no action other than believing in the son of God to determine the destination of his eternal soul. God extends this offer to all, including homosexuals, murderers, those that practice genocide and any other crime you can think of. Ted Bundy was saved by Jesus Christ on death row, just before he was killed, and that man raped, murdered and then had sex with the corpses of at least 30 victims, by his own confession. Since God is the ultimate judge, not I, I have no reason to doubt that his salvation is genuine until I get to Heaven and find out one way or the other. For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that all who believe in him would not parish, but would instead have everlasting life.Druv, I agree 100% that humans are flawed beings, though interestingly I disagree with one of your previous posts about whats evil and whats fine. For example, I do not in any way think that trapping animals in cages and keeping them there long term for study and entertainment is ok. Yes, God gave us responsibility over all the earth including the animals, but I fail to see how locking a Siberian tiger away in a cage for people to stare at all day is being responsible with Gods creation. I also do not hunt for sport, I hunt for food. Jesus commanded us through Peter to kill and eat, and just after the flood, he told Noah that he was now allowed to eat the flesh of living things. However, we were to make the deaths quick and painless and not waste anything, and there are stipulations, such as do not eat an animal wi th its lifes blood still in it. In other words, make sure its dead before you start eating it, and drain out the blood. Many of these guidelines are in place to keep us protected from consequences. For example, some researchers thought that aids was started by certain tribes in Africa drinking monkey blood. Killing animals responsibly, for food, is ok and not evil because we are the keepers of Gods creation and he commanded us to do so. Killing animals for sport hunting, especially if youre not going to eat the flesh, is most definitely irresponsible if not outright evil. There are many people in my town that enjoy trapping cats and killing them for no other reason than that they find them annoying, and this makes me very angry. Often times I have to go to God seeking forgiveness for my anger at a person like that.As for evidence, well, its true that humans discovered the evidence, but they did not put it there. God did that. By your logic we may as well discount all of science, because if humans are unable to be logical in any way, then all of science is so flawed as to be completely unusable. However, this also goes back to what I said above. Its not my goal to hammer you with evidences and scriptures over and over to make you believe, you have to make the choice to do that. I can only tell you what God has done for you, attempt to debate your arguments and leave it at that. What it amounts to is that when people pick a side, they will find evidences backing their side, plain and simple, as can be seen in evolutionary theory, a theory that is dying and yet is still being taught as scientific fact. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221865#p221865 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Many of you are aware that I grew up in a Christian home, was Christian for the first 25 years of my life or so, but have since become much more agnostic towards the belief in a god or higher power. It is not so much I think such a thing is impossible, but more a case I cant find any empirical evidence that such a being exists beyond what is written in ancient books like the bible and the Koran. I was raised as many Christians are that the bible is infallible and inerrant, but once I really studied what the bible says was completely unable to look past a number of contradictions and inaccuracies within the scriptures. Not only were there a number of contradictions, but there were plenty of things within the bible I outright disagreed with from an ethical and moral standpoint.To give an example earlier in this thread Brad brought up the question of hell. That was one of the core doctrines that drove a wedge between me and any belief in a higher power. The reason being on one hand the bible states that God loves us, that he was willing to die for us, etc but on the other hand if someone breaks one of his commandments, sins against God, or questions his existence he or she will burn for an eternity in hell. I could not fathom the unjustness, the sheer evil, the barbarism of a being that would torture souls for an eternity in a lake of fire. Why not just kill them and get it over with? That would be ultimately more merciful and punishment would be served.Of course, I am well aware not all Christians believe in that type of hell. When I began to have these kinds of doubts Christian friends, ministers, etc would try and explain hell away by stating they dont think hell is like that. They believed in a more humane hell where people are cast into outer darkness away from the presents of God. However, while I see their point of view it is unavoidable that the New Testament itself mentions a lake of fire in a number of verses and I just can n ot worship or love a God like that. For me the concept of hell makes God an evil, tyrannical, unmerciful, dictator and I personally believe such a being does not exist.As for the issue of why people believe so strongly in one religion or another I think basic sociology and psychology can explain that. It is no big mystery that someone born into a Muslim home will grow up to be Muslim, a person raised as Christian will usually become a Christian, and someone raised Jewish will grow up to be Jewish. They really have no choice in the matter because they are told from the moment they can communicate with family and friends that this or that religion is true and they never get to a point of questioning it too deeply. They are in effect brainwashed from birth to adulthood to accept various things are true and when they are old enough to look into it they are either afraid to or are unable to relinquish those beliefs in favor of an alternative belief system. Which brings me to a poi nt.In his post Brad was asking why people believe in one God, the one true religion, etc and the answer is simply that is always what they have been told. If one is a student of the New Testament theyll notice that many scriptures state things like there is one mediator between God and man or that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light. For many Christians such verses are the authority that their beliefs are the one true religion and that all other perspectives, religious beliefs, and concepts are false. They arent in a position to question their beliefs so it is hard to convince them of anything else. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are monotheisms meaning the central doctrine is one God, one truth, one revelation so obviously polytheistic concepts have no place in those belief systems.Since I am not religious I personally find all concepts of god or gods to be false, at least as far as I know, but dont want to soun d like an arrogant ass by insisting my opinion is the only valid point of view. I realize I could be wrong about the god thing, but if so I merely ask that evidence be presented that I both can recognize and that can be validated. As the late great Carl Sagan said, the more extraordinary the claim the more extraordinary the evidence needs to be to prove it. At this point we havent gotten to ordinary evidence let alone extraordinary evidence so I remain unconvinced by the god hypothesis at this current time myself. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221771#p221771 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? The only thing Ive got to say at the moment is that Violinist just said what I wished, in a much nicer way... Probably except the praying part at the end since Im not religious, at least not in a way that I pray.Especially thumbs up for the love the sinner/hate the sin comment. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221426#p221426 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
2015-06-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : themadviolinist via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? All right, look. Message 40 is not actually representative of what I understand to be my obligation if Im going to profess Christianity. In the light of 24 hours thought, I think I have taken a disagreement to a more personal level than I should have done and i am sorry for doing that. It is very hard for me, part of what I am learning by being on this path. I passionately believe in the rightness of people loving whom they love. Every fiber of who I am longs for the day when we stop noticing who is holding whose hand or kissing whom or marrying whom. I long for that day when we smile to see love, wherever and however that love might be shaped. I truly believe that is the example Jesus set us by his life.I have also seen the results of seemingly well intended attempts to dissuade people from being who they are by people who thought they were saving souls. They brought Hell into reality here on earth by their actions , by the lack of compassion and vision they showed.When I run into this sort of thinking, it sets off my anger. I will work for the world I spoke of. I hope I can bring you along. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221505#p221505 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality?
2015-06-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : themadviolinist via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What do people believe when it comes to religion and or spirituality? Who says that invariance equals perfection? Who says that perfection does not in fact consist of being able to adapt perfectly to the mind-numbing complexity of a world far beyond your humble comprehension. I do not say your faith is vain, I say it is cruel and arrogant, costing the lives and well being of real humans. I say that you fail to understand the meaning of Jesus life in a tragically superficial way that allows you to feel superior and saved. By the way, are you aware that to redeem is to liberate, as in slavery, and is less about achieving some narrowly guarded moral perfection than it is about humans achieving what it means to live in Gods image?And no, the alternative to absolutist philosophy is not nihilism. That shows a lack of imagination on your part, not an understanding of truth. You speak of the love of Christ, and all I see, to borrow liberally from J. R. R. Tolkien is the cclaw of egosim, cruel and cold and devoid of love. I do not say that you have not experienced the love of the God you profess, that would be presumptuous, but that you find a human document to be inerrant, showing the whole of the mind of a being you are unequipped to comprehend in its entirety is a demonstration that you want God to be smaller than he/she/it truly is.I wouldnt care, except that your God is killing people I love and taking a morally indefensible pleasure in doing so, exuding the falsely sympathetic nonsense of loving the sinner and hating the sin. If you ever come to my home, I will break bread with you, pray with you, and show you an unconditional welcome. You cannot say the same thing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=221355#p221355 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
