Files higher than 24/96 will automatically be downsampled [to the
highest natively supported res] by the server, so they also play just
fine on the TP. Just mentioning in case you can get the even-higher-res
files for approx the same price - one sometimes can.
bhaagensen wrote:
In case you're interested: Do you have Cash's, The Man Comes Around?
Mind giving the title track a spin and compare it to one on WiMP. Won't
give you my take, but its interesting ;)
No takers? Anyone else tried the comparison with anything else? Should
be interesting
Diskspace and bandwidth (in the relevant quantities) is kind of flatrate
for me (I need need x^n times more drivespace for other reasons). Anyhow
at the same price, I would take the highest res available out of pure
curiousity. Others have different premisses.
I'm pretty sure some of the WiMP flacs are different from my/the
CD-version. As to how this could be, I think you gave a fairly good
summary. Would be nice to have the opinions of others who could for
example have another pressing of The Man in Black, if such exists. So
I think you kind of gave
Yes I know about that one - it actually makes the super-high-res files
even more interesting :)
Btw 24/88 plays fine here.
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I don't use replay-gain (although my files are tagged). Not sure how it
works with streaming and replay-gain client-side. Of course it could be
that (as you indicate Mnyb) replay-gain is applied server side. The test
you suggest should give some hints - will look into it...
But good ideas.
Mnyb wrote:
But I do think that wimp hifi should mandate some form of pedigree
,some kind of documentation from the content providers .
What kind of master is this ? is it from a previusly aviable release (
if so which one ) or is it specially mastered for streaming services
?
Yes that
Its unfortunate and I dont know any specifics, but suppose its due to
IPR on the material. The law has pehaps not followed the development in
technology. iTunes/Netflix/Rhapsody/Spotify/HBO/Pandora/Quobus/etc/etc
all have the same issues albeit dealt with in different ways.
Except from trying for the sake of trying I've actually never seriously
used smart gain (I assume thats what you mean) settings. Maybe I
should.
In case you're interested: Do you have Cash's, The Man Comes Around?
Mind giving the title track a spin and compare it to one on WiMP. Won't
give you
Those of you using WiMP hifi. Thoughts on the sound quality on WiMP
hifi? Compared to my flac-rips I think their absolutely on par. In fact.
I'm wondering if sometimes the mastering is a bit quieter? Anyone know
anything about the origins of the files that WiMP ate using? Or maybe
you have
callesoroe wrote:
The only thing I miss in the Squeezebox app is an radio function based
on artist,playlist genre or so.
Or that Michael can get smartmix to work...
... and not to forget, support for his very own and superbly excellent
music and artist information plugin :) I second
Ralph, Im again not getting you - how do you reach your conclusions
regarding USB replacing spdif? To me it reads like argument-by-magic, to
stay with the terminology of recent threads.
As far as I know its simply a matter of a sum of factors deciding which
interface shall prevale. Its a
Ralph (and other critics:))
I think by now your stand as audiophiles is quite clear. I would like to
ask though, if you could please describe some of the listening sessions
you've had that has made you come to these strong conclusions.
Equipment, setups, etc.
Mnyb. I undesrstand you used to
ralphpnj wrote:
NO ONE regardless of playback system can ever hear the interface induced
jitter in S/PDIF. But hey, there are plenty of high priced digital audio
cables, by they optical, coax or USB, that promise to clean up jitter.
At some point you have to acknowledge that not everyone
thanks garym. My next question is then wether you've further considered
the strengths/weaknesses of the methodology. Any thoughts - theoretical,
statistical, probabilistic, domain specifics, or just intuitive thoughts
on the matter?
Thanks for the link - I didnt yet read it though.
But you are misunderstanding my point. Which is that usb is a better
interface by purely technical metrics and probably as cheap as spdif,
and more widespread in computing, so that alone is reason to make the
change. Spdif is for all but
You can find bs, lies, and nonsense in anything from your average
hghfi-mag to published peer-reviewed sciemtific papers. You cant
disregard an entire field just on account of some black sheeps. My
experience i (digital) high-fi is the same. Some talk just to avoid
falling in sleep, some just
Ralph you're amazingly persistent;)
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ralphpnj wrote:
The is no such thing as soundstage. The only thing soundstage is a
construct of the over active imaginations of audio reviewers. Therefore
it can not be wider, taller or deeper.
Images and imaging are another audio reviewer construct. Doesn't really
exist, never has
cliveb wrote:
Folks, let's have a reality check. The difference between a $150 DAC and
a $15000 DAC is orders of magnitude less than the variance in the
listener's perception capabilities from day to day.
One day I'm in a happy place and the SB2 playing through crappy kitchen
speakers
An exemple of fatigue. Listening at concert levels, say 90 dB, is in
many ways ideal cf. eg. Fletcher-Munson curves. However its too loud
for extended time. If you do it non-stop for several hours it will
create a physical sense of miscomfort. Here one could sensibly talk
about fatigue induced by
ralph and jh: this discussion is kind of interesting, but seriously - do
you actually have evidence to support your claims about the intellect of
folks who spend a lot of money on hi-fi? If you do, I'd love to see the
statistics?
As to wether there are differences or not. We are some that, from
Obviously its not going to provide conclusive evidence - but its hell
of a lot better basing your arguments on the lack of intellect of people
you dont even have an idea who are!
If you have better suggestions on how to bring this discussion further,
by all means. But right now, its worthless.
If anyone's interested: I could try setting up a bare SB3/Duet to
audition against my main-source - its been a while since I did. I'm also
going to be testing my main-source in this - its a guy I know - in the
high-end world non-conventional system, in the near future. Its in
danish, but I can
Mind elaborating? Because there is no difference, littlebut too little
difference, difference for the worse, less features, too expensive
somehow, or???
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Bit if you're only aften better, rather than best/optimal, sound quality
(which most in reality are no matter what they claim), and you assign a
certain room design/layout a monetary value (which many do) it can make
sense to improve by spending on the gear side of things ;)
Lots of people have gear in the 10k-class - especially if bought
pre-loved.
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The problem I intended to adress was that of mixing cost (value for
money) with the question of wether front ends can sound relatively
better/worse/different. Also there is some confusion as to wether a
front end includes a dac-stage or not - said Linn and Naim have no
digital only transports
Anyway as far as choosing Naim as an example of what Im not sure,
but it seems ill-chosen. In fact I think they have gone to lenghts in
keeping up with times. Their Uniqute integrated amplifier features
streaming, FM, DAB, USB input, iDevice digital connecticity, analouge
and digital inputs,
ralphpnj wrote:
All in all, I'd say that the Squeezebox based streaming digital music
playback system is on par with any other streaming digital music
playback system currently available, regardless of price.
Arguably The best up to the point of derivering the digital stream.
One way is to press the navigation wheel to get into the context menu
and from there select more info. There you should be able to see the
format. Note that if its being transcoded, it'll just say convertet
into 705 kbps. - and not what its actually playing.
Good times and we're all in agreement :)
But.
The one-liner scientific argument (Nyquist) doesn't carry through to the
end (the analog outputs of Your DAC). While Nyquist is a very nice
result, its theoretical and for practical purposes, non-constructive. So
an implementation is forced to take
Mnyb wrote:
So given modern studios the CD's or downloads is a mathematical exercise
so imo it is close to the theory
Maybe, but you can't argue that by referring to (only) Nyquist - the
main point of my first post.
Mnyb wrote:
And have a listen , in practice I do this now and then I
:) enjoy your coffee mnyb! I am listening to some recently released
stuff i havent bought yet on Spotify in shrug Mp3...
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Mnyb wrote:
quantum
But I guess this is the point. There is some wiggly room in the
interface where science meets the real world. And I know, in the
sciences its usually controlled and abstracted using some kind of
error-model, but such error models can't be denied of being extremely
Neh :) Of course, a claim - wether positive or negative - presented
without argument is not worth a penny. But this just resolves into what
constitutes an argument. Here traditions vary depending on the science,
and I'm sure some audiophile story-tellers are in fact able to present
sequences
Lupin, you don't understand Nyquist!
There are other objections, but yours is just plain wrong.
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stop-spinning wrote:
Over here in the UK, Linn has completely abandoned making CD players,
because they deem CD players inferior to their network music players in
terms of SQ.
There is no doubt the CD is dying as a mainstream distribution media -
its already in the grave among the younger
Not sure Im following Mnyb. As far as the high-end manufacturers go, I
think they've been trying to the opposite - to make it easy and
userfriendly. Most either support upnp or use their own protocol like
SB. The driver stuff is for the DIYers who do *not* want to spend their
bucks on the
darrenyeats wrote:
http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_big_squeeze/
Yes, thanks. One thing I think it shows, is that in the end its a matter
of the artistic content and how it interacts with its surroundings. The
discussion reminds me of digital photography. Hipstamatic and instagram
sort of being
Mnyb wrote:
The most annoying thing is that they are doing it for nothing as radio
stations compress and levels out things at their end...*cut*...
Take a quick peak out of the window. Not difficult to spot folks with
white thingies hanging of heads. You can´t argue that some compression
cliveb wrote:
The correct place to apply this level of compression is *in the playback
device*, and have it switchable/adjustable.
Indeed, mastering should be done at runtime on as unprocessed files as
possible, and using player-dependent parameters. But thats not reality,
nor is it for the
ralphpnj wrote:
Apple IS the dominant force in the marketplace and therefore has the
ability to influence the market much more than any other manufacturer.
In other words, as goes Apple so goes (almost) everyone else.
Assuming you are right and they actually have this ability, audiophile
Also close-mic vocals surely isn't a new feature of the pop and rock
genre. I agree that processed sound is common, but I think its a
feature/trend and I don't see unaturalness being a huge problem in terms
of audiophile enjoyment (unless its in direct conflict with an intended
goal of
Well I dont mind the processing and close-mic stuff per se. Like Johnny
Cashs much praised work with Rick Rubin on American Recordings. Sounds
fab to me, but it doesnt sound particularily supernatural and the voice
tracks are recorded close-mic and compressed. Its a bit theatrical
sounding, but
The point is that presumably the modern records sounds the way they do
because they are meant to sound that way. If one does not like that dont
just blame the recording qualities and priorities, but perhaps accept
that one simply does not like that specific *music*. I get the
impression that
Then define realism. To me its as infinite as the world itself. Add
that audiophile sound to an extent is a subjektive quality in so far as
no system can 100% and verifiably reproduce reality, and it becomes hard
to judge recordings bad, on the basis of simplistic parameters.
Anyway I'm
Yes dynamics is part of most music, though there are mainstream genres
where its less pronounced such as some noise, shoegaze, or ambient.
But its this apparent obsession, c.f. loudness-debate, among audiophiles
that puzzles me. On one hand its portraied as having ruined all recorded
music
Mnyb wrote:
many new rock songs you may hear on radio have a generic sound like
any music void of identity
This void of identity, on the other hand, could well be due to the (lack
of) actual musical content :)
TP supports 88, so problem must be elsewhere.
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wuffles wrote:
Forgive me if this has been discussed - I didn't find a similar thread.
This never topic never expires because there is no definite resolution.
wuffles wrote:
Some tracks have absolutely amazed me - these are typically vocal with a
couple of instruments.
This kind
Keep bugging them Rob! As a (currently happy) TP owner I wish I could
help more than encouraging you here :)
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If this is really true, Logitech deserves a huge slap! The Transporter
is an expensive product so they should positively have some way of
servicing or repairing - possibly at owners cost - but definetly a few
years into the future. Refusing to do this even while at the same time
*still* selling
Why the RC requirement?
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roughly for low/medium/high volumes, so if they are
totally out of reach, I can see the point.
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their homework as the saying goes.
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as
such... But it'll stay supported - won't get any new features though,
but possibly bug-fixes if new ones are discoved.
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Dans paper long ago and AFAIR he doesnt dicsuss this much
either - but I'll have another look).
PS I've made this complaint on these forums eariler - no avail :)
PSS If you want to argue by scientific standards, this is a part not to
be left out.
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Perhaps look at this this way. The circumference of a circle is pi*d -
easy. Very few people know how to compute this *exactly* on a computer
- not so easy :)
(However its easy to approximate within an error of...)
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the mark?
So there is still room for the audiophile crowd to go ballistic on
sampling rates - as I see it.
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In conclusion i agree with you mnyb and others. Its just that wrt the
end result the rigidness of mathematical sampling theory does (alone)
not carry through all the way.
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part of the theorem directly requires an infinite sum.
This is easy in mathematics, but how the engineers implement it is
still something even folks like Monty does not explain in any detail -
in fact, its often completely ignored... But why???
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Also, I assume the effect of speaker/wall interaction is not linear in
the distance, so you may move in larger increments as you her further
from the boundaries - thats my experience.
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Being a hard-fact guy I suppose the flat-respons metric would be your
goal. Personally I use the sounds-good metric - but it probably
requires more testing/work/moving??
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It won't play your 24/192 files at that resolution - 24/96 is max -
anything above gets down sampled server side.
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seems promising. Zwicker is no
longer alive and I couldn't find a biographical webpage with material?
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I dont have any good idea so I'm guessing ~800£?? I'd consider letting
go of mine for a few 100£ more... but I think they may also go for a
few 100£ less...
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curves are actually applied to achive e.g. wide, and
exactly why they achieve the desired effect.
- I'm curious:)
TIA.
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.
Moreover, if you can find a single convincing argument as to why
Logitech would keep on investing in expensive hifi-gear - I'm all ears.
Otherwise the whole high-end Squeezebox-thing ends when the current TP
(SE) goes out of production.
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michael123;633390 Wrote:
Expensive or not... it is surgically reduced plain Transporter circa
2006
Its not only the TP itself thats reduced - AFAIK its only available
(from Logitech) in the US. So its hardly still going strong...
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Its not possible.
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If you want accurate, I don't think you can get much more of it than
the Transporter, SE or 2.hand standard, balanced out and directly into
a suitable power-amp, gets you.
There are a number of good reasons for this.
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Hi,
I'm on firmware 86 and just noticed that the Transnav wheel wraps
around at the beginning/end of lists, with a bit of resistance in
between. I always thought it stopped - so is this a new feature?
Anyway, its great!
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then
the Squeezebox simply plays what it receives and your DAC does the job
it did before when it was directly connected to a CD transport.
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-code :S
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?
(Btw. How come there are all kinds of icons for the title, but no
question mark?)
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Fellows, did you check this thread?
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76763highlight=rolloff+akm
Also, I believe a couple of ninja-tricks are called for when running
7.6 on MSWindoz? For me, its been close to rock solid for months on
Linux.
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enable/disable the analouge outputs when off. In
particular it always maintains a fully live network-connection.
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Look in 'settings - player (choose the TP) - sound'. Its among the
first ones on that page.
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The only way to turn it really off, is to unplug from mains.
To simply avoid the searching for server message, you could switch the
TP over to mysqueezebox.com before turning of the Mini.
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want to set scrolling to some obscurely high
(fast) values.
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?
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___
audiophiles mailing list
Hmmm, apart from overwriting the existing fw85 with the attached file -
what is the procedure for actually invoking the update on the TP?
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Note (to self) - updating requires reading the firemware which requires
permission to do so :)
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procedures and the likes forever - this gives me a
impression that some at Logitech still care for the nutcase audiophile
TP-crowd).
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external DAC via BNC.
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is still very nice. Why not just redesign the UI to
account for the inavailability of the knob and displays - and perhaps
upgrade it to handle 96 sample-rates?
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statement that failure outside warranty = brick.
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:)
In any case. The TP-SE looks like a strange machine. I assume one can
still use the other hw-buttons? But if the transnav-wheel/button is
completely disabled, one is left with no means to actually do anything
with the back/search/browse-buttons?
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Hello,
very nice system - perhaps some pics in the system pics subforum...:)
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Same issue via the analog outputs?
Dont have raising sand, but a number of other albums from hdtracks.
Never had any issues at all with the TP connected wirelessly.
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the analouge outputs... See also:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76763highlight=slow+roll
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Oh, and by the way - its a user setting with the same default as the
current production firmware uses - i.e. the sharp filter.
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Don't know about your problem - you're experienced so I assume you've
checked logs and usual suspects including the xilinx-reset. Can't
recall it has happen for me without an apparent reason.
iPhone;568353 Wrote:
I have Firmware 50 on my Transporter.
Mind me asking why?
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As far as empirical evidence goes i see the overloading issues a couple
of times a year I guess. Never had issues with 96kHz files over
wireless, but I only have about 20 albums that probably gets very
little play time.
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michael123;567602 Wrote:
Please vote!
Done - but it feels like voting for some very small, idealistic party
at the national Danish elections.
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players also expose the stream
URL in a 'Properties' window.
Are you thinking of any stream in particular? Whats the address?
PS This is probably more appropriate for the 'General' subforum - this
is the 'Audiophile' subforum.
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further apart.
As for distance to walls I've heard setups with a listening distance of
4 meters and more from speaker to closest back/side-wall. I don't think
I would call it near-field though.
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I don't understand the question - could you explain a bit more?
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with it - its all worth it by definition :)
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