[addressed to Scott]
How do you define appropriate? I would suggest we come up with some
specific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, and
which can be applied in different situations.
Susan:
We are neither prophets nor the sons of prophets that we should presume to
do
I don't treat the Bible as one book. This argument is specific to
certain commandments.
No the argument was in reference to your general position that unlike the
Qur'an there is alot of stuff in the Bible which isn't inspired and isn't
true.
And in any case, it is not clear why you are
Gilberto: But you *are* presuming to talk about the teachings of at least oneprophet and call them barbaric, inappropriate, genocidal, out of date.
I don't think it is presumtuous to say "Hey killing folks who areminding their own business is generally wrong" or "stealing is a badthing to
Gilberto:
How do you define "appropriate"? I would suggest we come up with somespecific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, andwhich can be applied in different situations.
Hajir:
This is a great idea. The only criteria and condition that makes sense is God Himself.
On 10/28/05, Hajir Moghaddam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
How do you define appropriate? I would suggest we come up with some
specific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, and
which can be applied in different situations.
Hajir:
This is a great idea. The only
Gilberto:
So I would say that to *some* degree, human beings have *some* capacity to tell right from wrong, apart from a specific text.Hajir:
Makes sense. But it is more than just coincidence, to Baha'is, that all of these changes in human thought (spirit of the age)took place around the
On 10/28/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
I don't treat the Bible as one book. This argument is specific to
certain commandments.
Susan:
No the argument was in reference to your general position that
unlike the Qur'an there is alot of stuff in the Bible which isn't
On 10/28/05, Hajir Moghaddam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
So I would say that to *some* degree, human beings have *some*
capacity to tell right from wrong, apart from a specific text.
Hajir:
Makes sense. But it is more than just coincidence, to Baha'is, that all of
these changes
Gilberto:
Ok. You and I shouldn't talk about this unless there is anything
significantly new to say.
No, I'm saying as list manager we are going to drop the entire thread.
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You don't get the point, do you. Or, you just play dumb. No difference
anyhow.
One cannot prove a negative. If you want to challenge or disprove Scott's
point, all you need to do is to produce just one Jewish person from the
banu-Qurayzah tribe. That's all. If you cannot do that, then don't
Gilberto is willing to hypothesize that, perhaps, the bani-Qurayzah Jews
got absorbed into other communities (but he doesn't give you any evidence
for that, of course) but he doesn't accept the fact that the banu-Qurayzah
got indeed wiped off the face of the earth. This is good.
Iskandar
On
Well, let's see: someone does a bank robbery somewhere. He is caught and
tried and incarcerated. I'd say that's appropriate nowadys, in this day
and age. Now, is it appropriate to cut off his hand? Gilberto avoids this
question and evades to give an answer. I think he knows that we understand
that
Hi, folks,
This thread has been closed.
Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. * Prof. of Sociology * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Johnson County Community College, Overland Park, Kansas
913-469-8500 x3376 * Fax 913-469-2589 * VOIP 347-983-0161
Mobile 913-768-4244 * http://MarkFoster.net * Office GEB 151D
The
Again, all you need to do to prove Scott wrong is to produce one (only
one) Jewish person from banu-Qurayzah. You haven't done that. You can't do
that. So, just keep quiet.
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
Another memorable post for the hall of fame of rubbish and non-sensical
comments.
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How did they change? (I don't mean, what was the change?, I mean
What was the process by which they
Dear Susan,
Gilberto is hell bent on misrepresenting you, Khazeh, Scott, and others.
He is not going to stop doing that. It's just totally pointless to try to
reason with him because he has left his mind and reasoning power somewhere
in the 7th century on some desert.
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct
Look, we are dropping the thread folks.
Gilberto gets to have the last word. So he gets one more post and then we
shut the thread down. No one else should be posting on it at this point.
Let's get back to the list purpose which is Baha'i Studies not Baha'i-Muslim
apologetics.
The
Don't worry, Susan. He will always have the last word; just like his
Prophet is the last Prophet.
Warm regards,
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Susan Maneck wrote:
Look, we are dropping the thread folks.
Gilberto gets to have the last word. So he gets one more post and then we
shut the
On 10/28/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't worry, Susan. He will always have the last word; just like his
Prophet is the last Prophet.
I think it is fine to drop the thread. I've basically said my peace
for a while.
Peace
Gilberto
The information contained in this
"Please end the thread" is a polite way of saying "END THE THREAD!" The last word was reserved to Gilberto, why not let him have it?
Regards,
ScottMax Jasper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Or simply we can change the header!|I think it is fine to drop the thread. I've basically said my|peace for
Or simply we can change the header!
Max,
What I am saying is we need to get back to the topic of Baha'i Studies, not
Islam, not piggy banks. Please cooperate.
Susan
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Yes, I'd say cooperate also.
I'm not "academic", but I feel good in this forum, but please do not revolve persistently in the same topic.
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On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In Biblical and in modern terms, killing all the men, taking the women as
concubines and wives and raising the children as members of the conquering
tribe, certainly matches the definition for
Gilberto:No, I'm not taking it personally. I know I didn't do it. But style ofyour (collectively, not individually) seems like it is yet anotherexample of how on the one hand Bahais claim to affirm Islam, while atthe same time try to delegitimize it.
Hajir:
Gilberto, you're not getting the
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They agreed on their own judge (who was not the
prophet) and the judge declared that the men should be killed. The
women and children were spared. It was certainly harsh. But it wasn't
genocide.
Dear Gilberto,
By 'spared' you mean the
Dear Gilberto,
Salaamun 'Alaikum...
I was reading the Qur'an today and I came across the story of Khidr and Musa(as) in Suratul Kahf. How would you explain theslaying of the young child? I would love to hear your thoughts.
MonderGilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Susan
On 10/27/05, Monder M Zbaeda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
Salaamun 'Alaikum...
I was reading the Qur'an today and I came across the story of Khidr and
Musa(as) in Suratul Kahf. How would you explain the slaying of the young
child? I would love to hear your thoughts.
Monder
I
If Banu Qurayzah was under Muhammad's (saaws) watch and you believe
Muhamad was a Manifestation of God, then even if the religion of Islam
never existed, Bahais should have to come to terms with explaining the
ethics and morality of such an action. But that's not the route Bahais
take. Instead
In this particular context, the way you are trying to redefine things
is inappropriate to the larger issue. The issue of genocide came up in
the contex of talking about how moral decisions can be made based on
constant ethical values and principles. And in that context, I said
that the Biblical
Dear Gilberto,
Thank you for your insights and for the reminder of what the Qur'an says. I very much agree ith all that you said. Our insignificant minds can never unravel nor comprehend His Wisdom.
Your BrotherGilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Monder M Zbaeda <[EMAIL
On 10/27/05, Hajir Moghaddam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
No, I'm not taking it personally. I know I didn't do it. But style of
your (collectively, not individually) seems like it is yet another
example of how on the one hand Bahais claim to affirm Islam, while at the
same time try
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In this particular context, the way you are trying to redefine things
is inappropriate to the larger issue. The issue of genocide came up in
the contex of talking about how moral decisions can be made based on
constant ethical values and
Dear Gilberto,
I really like the fact that you've provided Karen Armstrong's explanation of the account of Banu Qurayzah; I have a suggestion, though. We've long passed the line of scholarly debate and are into the realm of what seems to me purely apologetics, and under these circumstances,
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: In Biblical and in modern terms, killing all the men, taking the women as concubines and wives and raising the children as members of the conquering
I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is wrong.
What do you think my thesis is?
Dear Gilberto,
That ethical principles and values have been constant over time.
If you aren't even sure if the
Israelites received those commands (which are clearly contained in
Deuteronomy) why argue
Dear Scott,
I find your posts
really hard to follow. Is it possible for you to put your immediate responses at
the top rather than the bottom of your posts?
warmest, Susan
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On 10/27/05, Benjamin La Framboise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
Aside from the fact that I think we're having a virtually
fruitless conversation here,
Yes.
Benjamin:
I just want to add that if we are going to
include explanations of history so that we can better understand the
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Gilberto: No, I'm not taking it personally. I know I didn't do it. But style of your (collectively, not individually) seems like it is yet another example of how on the one hand Bahais claim to affirm
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is wrong.
What do you think my thesis is?
Dear Gilberto,
That ethical principles and values have been constant over time.
ok.
If you aren't even sure if the
Israelites received those commands
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Convenience of the definition isn't really the issue. Whether you callit "genocide" or whether you call it "picking flowers" it is stillclear that a certain policy of killing certain nations is found in theJewish Torah, but that the same behavior is
I'm sorry Susan. I was taught that top-posting was rude, so I try to
comment during the previous narrative, I'll try to ammend my style, If you
could quote the particular post, I'll edit it.
Dear Scott,
We discourage trailing but that is mostly because we are trying to
discourage people from
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Convenience of the definition isn't really the issue. Whether you call
it genocide or whether you call it picking flowers it is still
clear that a certain policy of killing certain nations is found
I didn't argue that point 'tooth and nail.'
Not just you but other people in here as well.
Gilberto, you are a assuming there is a single position being argued here in
opposition to your own. That's not the case. We all have different
perspectives. I tend to take each point by itself, whether
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If Banu Qurayzah was under Muhammad's (saaws) watch and you believe
Muhamad was a Manifestation of God, then even if the religion of Islam
never existed, Bahais should have to come to terms with explaining the
ethics and morality of such an
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I didn't argue that point 'tooth and nail.'
Not just you but other people in here as well.
Gilberto, you are a assuming there is a single position being argued here in
opposition to your own.
No I realize that there are differences but
Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
"I'm sorry Susan. I was taught that "top-posting" was rude, so I try tocomment during the previous narrative, I'll try to ammend my style, If youcould quote the particular post, I'll edit it."Dear Scott,We discourage trailing but that is mostly because
Qurayzah, duly noted, sorry for the error.
The treaty and its breaking provided grounds for the Muslims to make war with them, indeed.
The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable of bearing arms), then enslaving the women and children DID wipe them out ethnically
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Qurayzah, duly noted, sorry for the error.
The treaty and its breaking provided grounds for the Muslims to make war
with them, indeed.
Ok.
The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable
of bearing arms), then
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Scott:
We get that you are trying to draw
distinctions, but you are trying to draw
modern distinctions and THEN paling before
applying those same modern
standards to the Banu Quraysh. By modern
standards BOTH are genocidal.
I'm not
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tribal warfare tends to be BRUTAL warfare. Whether it be Hebrews, Arab, Hutu, or whatever.How are you measuring brutality? There are larger casualties in modernwars. Humans have certainly gotten more efficient at killing. Warstoday still include
Dear Gilberto,
No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by the standards of the hadith, and much shariyah is hadith-based, hadith provides much of the precedent for Islamic jurisprudence.
In 1980 an Iranian court hung a seventeen year old girl, she was arrested when
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable
of bearing arms), then enslaving the women and children DID wipe them out
ethnically just as completely as if the
Contradictory Information regarding the Events with Banu Qurayzah...
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=discussiondid=356
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On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Scott:
Tribal warfare tends to be BRUTAL warfare.
Whether it be Hebrews, Arab,
Hutu, or whatever.
Gilberto
How are you measuring brutality? There are larger casualties in modern
wars. Humans
On 10/27/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
I'm not going to pretend like I'm some scholarly expert. I've read
alot about religion but I don't want to set myself up as an authority.
And this might sound bad... but if you just now
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by the
standards of the hadith,
Scott, I think you need to slow down. I think you are misunderstanding
the issue and misspeaking.
In 1980 an Iranian court
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
On 10/27/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
Just produce someone from banu-Qurayzah and end the discussion. If you
can't, then just say nothing.
Scott is the one who claimed to know
I know one here in our campus.!
|wasn't wiped out. Wasn't wiped out, my foot. Just show me one
|person. One. Only one, and one person only.
|
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intended
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Dear Gilberto, No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by the standards of the hadith,Scott, I think you need to slow down. I think you are misunderstandingthe issue
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by
the standards of the hadith,
Gilberto:
Scott, I think you need to slow
There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by mischance - whatever.
How do we know that about six million died? Because when the war was over they did
In Afghanistan the courts of shar'iah routinely sentenced people to be stoned to death.
Is this an appropriate sentence to this day and age?
Less than fifty years ago a Saudi court ordered the beheading of a princess of the Royal house for adultery. Was this an appropriate sentence in this day
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated
in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead
of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by mischance - whatever.
There actually are. There
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by
How did they change? (I don't mean, what was the change?, I mean
What was the process by which they changed?)
Dear Gilberto,
I consider the Will of God to be the basis of all morality. That Will is
expressed through revelation. And it was revealed through Baha'u'llah that
would be no more
Im not
saying today's standards I'm talking about basic moral
considerations.
That's the point of dispute isn't it? Whether or not there is any such thing
as morality apart from the situation, place and time.
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
In Afghanistan the courts of shar'iah routinely sentenced people to be
stoned to death.
Dear Scott,
I would be careful with that example. There is nothing in the Qur'an that
calls for stoning, in fact the penalty for adultery mentioned there is much
less. It is hard to know what to make the
That's true enough, Susan. But in many instances stoning was carried out regardless.
I think that's an example of shariah being too inflexible for modern times, its been stretched as far as it will go and the holes are beginning to gain prominence.
Regards,
ScottSusan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In Afghanistan the courts of shar'iah routinely sentenced people to be
stoned to death.
Is this an appropriate sentence to this day and age?
How do you define appropriate? I would suggest we come up with some
specific moral principles, a set
How do you define appropriate? I would suggest we come up with some
specific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, and
which can be applied in different situations.
We are neither prophets nor the sons of prophets that we should presume to
do this.
The information
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How did they change? (I don't mean, what was the change?, I mean
What was the process by which they changed?)
Dear Gilberto,
I consider the Will of God to be the basis of all morality. That Will is
expressed through revelation. And it was
Try to understand what I'm seeing in here. One person likened the
actions of Muhammad to Milosevic and you are accusing Muhammad of
genocide and comparing what was done to Banu Qurayzah (unfavorably)
with the Holocaust.
We are going around in circles Gilberto. The cycle runs something like this.
On 10/28/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How do you define appropriate? I would suggest we come up with some
specific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, and
which can be applied in different situations.
We are neither prophets nor the sons of prophets that we
But you *are* presuming to talk about the teachings of at least one
prophet and call them barbaric, inappropriate, genocidal, out of date.
The only thing which is true of the above statement is that I did suggest it
was out of date. And I suggest that on the basis of God's new revelation.
And
On 10/28/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Try to understand what I'm seeing in here. One person likened the
actions of Muhammad to Milosevic and you are accusing Muhammad of
genocide and comparing what was done to Banu Qurayzah (unfavorably)
with the Holocaust.
Susan:
We are going
"There is no justification for genocide, for the wholesale killing ofmen, women and children of an entire ethnic group in the Quran."Ordinary" warfare where you make sure not to kill non-combatants,where you allow the enemy to surrender, where you cease hostilitieswhen your opponent does,
On 10/26/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is no justification for genocide, for the wholesale killing of
men, women and children of an entire ethnic group in the Quran.
Ordinary warfare where you make sure not to kill non-combatants,
where you allow the enemy to
In Biblical and in modern terms, killing all the men, taking the women as
concubines and wives and raising the children as members of the conquering
tribe, certainly matches the definition for genocide.
I'm finding myself having less and less positive feelings about the
conversation and where
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In Biblical and in modern terms, killing all the men, taking the women as concubines and wives and raising the children as members of the conquering tribe, certainly matches the definition for genocide.I'm finding myself having less and less
They agreed on their own judge (who was not the
prophet) and the judge declared that the men should be killed. The
women and children were spared. It was certainly harsh. But it wasn't
genocide.
Dear Gilberto,
By 'spared' you mean the women and children were sold into slavery. In
Bosnia it was
I do put a certain amount of thought into my responses although
at times I might lose patience,Khazeh: In other words however
lowly i am i wish to identify with the position of the martyred uncle of
the Bab and i would beg and beseech once again brother Gilberto to
consider the real
Hi, Gilberto,
At 01:43 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
What do you mean by spiritual validity. Is it about becoming a certain kind
of person? Reaching enlightenment? Salvation? Something else?
In this case, I meant whatever God might consider to be a valid construction of
reality. Although we
On 10/24/05, Khazeh Fananapazir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[quoting from]
(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 447)
Gilberto:
Ok. Ive read that.
Right now, it is just a claim. There is no evidence for it. There is no
compelling reason to believe it.
So I basically have to just leave it
On 10/24/05, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 01:43 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
What do you mean by spiritual validity. Is it about becoming a certain
kind of person? Reaching enlightenment? Salvation? Something else?
In this case, I meant whatever God might consider
On 10/24/05, Michael Alcorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear all,
I believe the following is pertinent to this thread:
If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together,
any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: Wherefore
hast thou disbelieved in
Gilberto,
At 05:49 AM 10/24/2005, you wrote:
Do you have an example in mind for how two contradictory narratives would
both be correct? I would be tempted to say that if they are both correct,
then the contradiction isn't real. And vice versa.
Yes.
1. There is a God (Semitic religions) ...
Do you think it is possible to understand a religious text without
believing in it?
Dear Gilberto,
Yes, it's possible. I became a Baha'i by reading and reading Baha'i books,
specially those revealed by the Central Figures of the Faith. I could
understand them well and that's why I decided to
Such orders are present in many Holy Books of God, including Qur'an, and
the
*context* in which such instructions were given usually warrant God's
reason
for order them.
|
|I agree. I wasn't refering to the cases of fire and brimstone
|raining down on folks from heaven or heavenly plagues. I was
This is precisely why Baha'u'llah has come - to remove those elements which
cause confusion.
- Original Message -
From: Max Jasper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: RE: Fwd: Interesting thread
Such orders
Sure. So we agree?!?
-Gilberto
On 10/24/05, Max Jasper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Excellent! You say that Qur'an's instruction to kill was killing of
non-believers who waged war against Muhammad or Muslims. That's the
context
I was referring to.
|Ordinary warfare where you make sure not
On 10/22/05, Hajir Moghaddam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
I think that in general matters of human life, the sanctitiy of human
life, are related to the essential fundamental principles.
So are you saying that it is an essential fundamental principle to kill
apostates?
No. In the
Good morning,
I haven't seen any evidence. I've seen Bahai attempts at explaining the Quran in a non-mainstream way, but that's all. The Bahai interpretations aren't particularly compelling to me.
Its interesting, because I have not been convinced that your way of looking at it is all that
On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good morning,
Good morning : )
Gilberto:
I haven't seen any evidence. I've seen Bahai attempts at explaining
the Quran in a non-mainstream way, but that's all. The Bahai
interpretations aren't particularly compelling to me.
Hajir:
Gilberto: I have spent a chunk of time in this forum and soc.religion.bahaitrying to better understand the Bahai faith.
Haj:
Tell me something I don't know. : )
Gilberto:I might just take you up on that. I"m curious though. Do you think itis possible to understand a religious text
Do you think it
is possible to understand a religious text without believing in it?
Dear Gilberto,
Sure. Especially if one is prepared to listen for the Word of God whether
one is certain it can be found there or not.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any
On 10/23/05, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(question directed at Hajir)
Do you think it
is possible to understand a religious text without believing in it?
Dear Gilberto,
Sure. Especially if one is prepared to listen for the Word of God whether
one is certain it can be found there
On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
Do you think it
is possible to understand a religious text without believing in it?
Haj:
Not sure if you have to believe in it, but you sure do have to see it
through its own paradigm. Let me know how I can help.
Would it
Haj: Your arguments against the Baha'i notion of P.R. don't make sense at all. You argue against something that's alien to me, as if you are arguing against someone else's belief, not mine. That's probably why we disagree.
Gilberto:Part of me mentioning the amount of time I've been in
Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran you
need to see it through the Muslim paradigm?
You'd have to persuade me that there is a a single Muslim paradigm and
that this is the same paradigm as the Qur'an itself first.
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On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran you
need to see it through the Muslim paradigm? If not, what would be
wrong with viewing the Bahai writings through the Muslim paradigm?
Haj:
I think I would
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