If I didnt know any better I would have said that Abdul-Baha was
cheating in order to make 3.5 days into 1260 years. Perhaps Im missing
something...
Dear David,
Joachim de Flora, the medieval founder of Dispensationalism concluded that
1260 (A.D.) would be the year as well. I think it is
Dear Tim,
Here's Rob's responses to your questions regarding Baha'i Review.
warmest, Susan
These are excellent questions. I'll respond below.
-- Robert Stockman
-Original Message-
From: Susan Maneck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 7:54 PM
To: Baha'i
Why? It seems to me that the difficulties of interpretation are too
great, and the chances of destroying aesthetic value and wrongly
denying freedom of expression, too high.
Dear William,
Except artistic work is subject to review if it is intended for mass
distribution. At one time they tried
Mr. Grossman's interpretation tells volumes about how
hard Mr. Grossman finds administrative service in the Faith, and how much
he
puts into it.
Dear Vaughn,
I think that's what Mark was trying to say when we suggested Mr. Grossman
had been an administrator too long. I don't think he was
Khazeh jan,
Do you have your translation of the Tablet of a
Thousand Verses on the net anywhere?
warmest, Susan
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I recall that Ruhiyyih Khanum once reported that the Guardian said to her
that her mother was a hero but her father was a saint. I'm not sure he was
trying to say that her mother was better than her father, much less that
Horace Holley was greater than both of them.
warmest, Susan
I am a member of my local spiritual assembly, but I dont claim to be a
Bahai administrator. I know one, though. He gets up at 5:00 every morning
to pray for two hours for his community before he goes to work. He and his
family support the activities of the friends, their firesides and feasts
Dear Tim,
I'm ccing this message to Rob Stockman since he runs the Review Office and
is in a better postion to answer your questions. But I'll tell you what I
know (or at least think I know.)
You wrote:
1. If a character in a story believes things and does things
that would be easily
If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall
die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the
evil from Israel. (Deuteronomy 22:22)
I'm assuming here that this law covers either fornication or adultery by
the
man.
No, it doesn't. In fact
- Original Message -
From: Daniel Grolin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:50 AM
Subject: Moses and the Pentateuch
Dear Richard,
It is interesting to note that no one of note has ever questioned that
Ezra
wrote the Bible around
Thank you. However, I am not subscribed to the Baha'i Biblical Studies
list.
And Daniel, unfortunately, isn't subscribed to Baha'i Studies.
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The Executive Committee of the
Association for Baháí Studies extends a warm invitation to you to attend and
participate in the 28th Annual Conference of the
Association for Baháí Studies North America
"Spirit and Intellect: Advancing Civilization"
28th Annual Conference of the
Perhaps the effect of the ablution lasts for twenty-four hours, or until
the repetitions have been completed; which ever is completed first.
I don't think so, Richard. I think if you interrupt your prayers or a dhikr
after you have performed your abolutions, you need to do them again. The
idea
The
problem of this passage is that it would indicate that non-Baha'is are
bad
associates or lepers, whom we should not associate with. Jesus'
brothers
and Tahirih's sons were not bad people (I don't think), but 'Abdu'l-Baha
is
clearly implying that Jesus and Tahirih's avoidance of them due
Dear Larry,
The same method was applied to Qur'an by a rather eccentric Imam from Tucson
who came to the conclusion that everything came to the Number 19. But in my
opinion this is all nonsense. Here is a URL: http://skepdic.com/bibcode.html
warmest, Susan
- Original Message -
From:
Have you seen a breakdown of the Qur'an with regard to the number 19? I
have one in my possession.
Yes, the problem is you can play this game with almost any number.
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Oh, i see the problem. There are apparently two archives. You can access
the public ones here:
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public)
Steve,. do you have a URL for that archive? I'm not sure how the passwords
on this oen work. I think everyone may have their own.
--
Thanks, everyone. He is off the front page.
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A note in Miracles and Metaphors points out that Ibn-Khaldun, who has been
called the founder of sociology, argued that religion can only succeed if it
receives the backing of the prophet's people on the basis of kinship
solidarity. Was he truly the founder of sociology? Why was he called the
By the way it's available in English, though I don't recall the
translator(s).
Franz Rosenthal translated it, but the translation isn't very good.
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Baha'i
Well, Susan jan, you may have to roll up the sleeves on this one and come
up with a more befitting translation. It certainly will have the market
as
it's a foundational text and would make a great project.
Uh, I'm afraid it's a little beyong me, Ahang jan. Let's pawn it off on
Will. ;-}
You ask if there are any texts which state that the institution of the
Guardianship can exist without a living Guardian.
Dear Peter,
This thread hasn't appeared on Baha'i Studies.
warmest, Susan
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Dear Ahang,
I was struck by this:
Dr Khan identified four areas in particular that he felt the Baha¹i
community, complementary to its focus on the core lines of action, could
contribute to the spiritual and social rehabilitation of western society
Those four were as follows:
1. Building
Would have grounds or would not have grounds?
Dear Richard,
I was told that Mason Remey's plan for the Haifa Temple *would* be used.
warmest, Susan
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You might think of it as reciting in the sense of 're-cite.'
In the sense of dhikr or zakkar (adhkar)?
No, I don't think so. Dhikr recites the same word again and again and again.
warmest, Susan
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Dear Friends As about the literal meaning of the root of this word,
ALMONJED,
Dear Faruq,
How do we get almonjed from Telavat? There doesn't appear to be a letter
they have in common!
warmest, Susan
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What about Western believers who do not know how to chant? Do our words
have the same effect or should we learn to chant?
I fear if I tried chanting the angels would *really* scatter!
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Does that mean that if a person had memorized all of Baha'u'llah's
Writings
they would still have to literally read His Writings everyday, as opposed
to
just selecting a passage from memory and going over it in their mind or
reciting it aloud?
Dear David,
If you know someone who has
Dear friends,
That last post was made by a declared Covenant breaker. Please do not
respond.
warmest, Susan
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Thank you. It wasn't understandable anyway.
Dear Richard,
What that was all about is that some people on another list had taken
Michael's word for it when he asserted that the Guardian was gay and never
slept with his wife. They insisted the only reason I wouldn't believe him
because he was a
Dear friends,
Sometime ago the Universal House of Justice wrote the following:
The beloved Guardian has explained that the general and national interests
of the Cause take precedence over local ones; thus contributions to local
funds are secondary to those to national funds. However, the
Re: Two Adams??She seems to think that she saw it in an article in the
Baha'i Studies Journal and that the statement was attributed to Abd'ul-
Baha. That wouldn't happen to ring any bells for you, would it?
Dear Jeanne,
The only reference i know to *two* Adams is from the New Testament where
The 10,000 to 100,000 year mentioned by the Master seems to indicate the
beginning of human race around that time in my opinion.
Aside from being a confirmation of current scientific thinking, does it
matter, from a scientific point of view, when the Master said that the human
race started?
If you accept the evidence for the Eve or the out of Africa theory, science
has already confirmed the origin of our present species 100,000 years ago.
Dear Marlene,
I think even without the 'Eve' theory Homo Sapiens are supposed to emerge
about 100,000 years ago aren't they?
The Agricultral
Dear Susan You're right. I have seen what you say about the age of this
world, but I couldn't find an answer to this Word of `Abdu'l-Baha about `ten
thousand years'. Could you look at it in Makatib or second volume of
Ma'idih (vol. 2, chapter 35)? (you can find it in both books)
Dear Faruq,
A friend has mentioned that she seems to remember reading something from
either Shoghi Effendi or Abdu'l-Baha where he stated that the Adam of the
Garden of Eden was not the same Adam who was the Manifestation of God.
Dear Jeanne,
I thought I'd answer this post earlier, but for some reason
Hi folks,
I'm hopelessly behind in my email, so I apologize for taking so long to
forward the following:
- Original Message -
From: Daniel Grolin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:24 PM
Subject: An answer re: Love Thine Enemy
Hi
However, not all words
of all minutes of all Assembly meetings need be protected under
confidentiality.
Dear Marleen,
Those involving personal problems are likely to be the most confidential of
all, and these are the ones most important for a study such as the one Jim
is suggesting.
warmest,
Dear Jim,
Since you are new to this list, how about an introduction? Can we get a bio
from you? In fact, perhaps we could all do with a round of bios since I
think we have had a number of new subscribers recently.
I'm Susan Maneck and I manage this list on behalf of Mark Foster, the list
owner
That the Bahai Faith could not or should not be organized.
Dear Steve,
Ruth White would quote a pilgrim's note which reported Abdu'l-Baha as saying
the Baha'i Faith could never be organized. She used it to oppose Shoghi
Effendi's efforts to create the administrative order. My recollection is
Does anyone know where I can find counterarguments to each of the reasons
given by the House of Justice, for continuing the review process, in its
messages of 8 September 1991, 10 December 1992, and 5 October 1993?
Dear Jim,
I believe those are the latest letters on that issue. But why are
Contrary
to what I said the NSA could and should commission some kinds of
research. I suppose there is no reason it cannot commission research
and construct some distance between it and the research. I need to
think again. Although I still think we should allow and construct a
sphere of
Something tells me you don't approve of Fred's Web site.
And it has nothing to do with the fact he has nine pages on it denouncing
me. ;-}
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I am not sure that if I were on the NSA I would commission a
scientific study on social problems within the Baha'i Faith. For a
start research takes up resources.
Dear William,
I agree they wouldn't do it under that rubric. But they might very well be
interested in a study which focused on
Has there been any scholarship on social problems within the Baha'i
Faith, such as abusive behavior, corruption of institutions, and
mind-control cults?
There have been opinion pieces but, to my knowledge, no objective
treatments of this subject.
I'm not sure that there could be. I'm not sure
Yes. Just today I stumbled upon the following:
http://www.chick.com/catalog/tractlist.asp
This is so gross and crude you might scream.
Dear Alex,
Believe it or not you can find these tracts everywhere in the US.
warmest, Susan
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- Original Message -
From: Daniel Grolin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: UHJ and majority vote.
Dear Susan,
You might pass this on as a point for the current discussion on B.St.
The problem is only theoretical
Title: UHJ Infallibility
FYI
- Original Message -
From: Guy Sinclair
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: UHJ Infallibility
Dear Susan
In relation to the discussion on this subject on
Baha'I Studies, the friends might note that Article V,
Also, Book 6 tends to be overly rigid in its conception of how
to teach at firesides. It emphasizes controlling the amount of
information
given to the seeker rather than answering the questions in their heart
which is
what the Guardian stressed.
Only if it is improperly tutored.
Dear Loni,
-the 'fireside' method is being somewhat ignored in the recent
emphasis
on Ruhi, IMO. It is still a valid way of teaching (how can something
recommended so highly by the Guardian become invalid?) and I suspect
if
we had all opened our homes as regularly as was suggested (each 19
days)
Dear Jim,
You've got some great ideas here. I'd like to see how you fill them out.
warmest, Susan
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Earlier we had a thread regarding the influence of Islam on the Renaissance.
Some of you might find the topic of the following conference interesting;
Retelling the Renaissance, East and West
Retelling the Renaissance, East and West
Institute for Arab and Islamic Studies, Exeter University, 30
Dear David,
I think you need to keep in mind that deciding the minutae of Baha'i law is
not the function of scholarship in this Day, though it was in past
Dispensations. As Shoghi Effendi stated:
But praise be to God that the Pen of Glory has done away with the
unyielding an dictatorial views of
My advice: if the
minutiae of bathing are that important to you (why?), ask for an
elucidation
from the Universal House of Justice.
And don't tell them I sent you...
Don't tell them I sent you either. But Shoghi Effendi and 'Abdu'l-Baha both
said this is not our business, and I'm quite happy
You mean that AOL users have to send in both formats?
Dear Don,
What I mean is that AOL email has html embedded even in their plain email
and there is no tool to eliminate those.
warmest, Susan
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OK, so if lengthy msgs are a problem for a few, how about an education
campaign for the others on how to eliminate the html version from
their msgs?
Dear Don,
As I indicated, this can't be done for AOL users. In Outlook if you see
those lines you go up and click on Format and then click on
One day, someone will write a doctoral dissertation on the style of
translation of Shoghi Effendi. A lot can be learned from his
translations.
Dear Brent and David,
Dianne Malouf already did, but I think it will take more than one
dissertation.
I don't think it would be readily apparent to
But that's not what the 1932 letter stated. It said nothing about monthly
debt to income ratio or anything that you'd recognize from the
introductory
Finance 101 course.
Dear Ahang,
Well, I think the principle that is being expressed is that we don't use
contributions to the fund as an
Kia Ora Susan. David is correct, this man was not a Covenant breaker at
that time. He may well have become a Covenant breaker later on but at that
time when he was residing in New Zealand and Australia, he was not. To be
honest I have forgotten his name. I think it was around 1951 that the
I just wanted to note something I only recently noticed about the wording
of
this sentence. What I refer to is the words a Revelation direct from
God.
Dear David,
The phrase 'direct from God' is not in the original. The original literally
says whoso layeth claim to a *Cause.* 'Abdu'l-Baha
I can't offhand think of any references in which 'Abdu'l-Baha indicates He
is Revealing something.
I don't think Abdu'l-Baha ever made such a claim but my recollection is that
Baha'u'llah affirmed that one of His sons could reveal verses.
warmest, Susan
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If we were to take this as an accurate statement of a limitation on the
nature and powers of the National and Universal House of Justice, how
would we reconcile this with the Guardian's statement to the US NSA about
the relations that should be maintained between the central
administrative
I guess, then, that if
female pronouns had been used, such would prove that the next
Manifestation
would be female?
Dear David,
It would certainly be a strong indication. But I've never know the
scriptures to make it that easy. ;-}
warmest, Susan
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I'm fairly sure I have heard that there is no actual term for separate
gender in Persian? Is this true? If so this could have a bearing on the
discussion?
Dear Michael,.
That's correct. But we have been citing texts that were written in Arabic
which insists on gender.
warmest, Susan
Title: Message
"I
think what needs to be identified in questions like this, is what is the
underlying cause of both recognising and not recognising the Manaifestation of
God. This is an eternal question. East - west and any prophetic aspectsare
related to the era that has now gone by. But
And these days, TV doesn't pass the smell test. What passes for garments
for teenagers these days don't, either. Evidence? It's all around.
Dear Brent,
My observation is that neither TV or clothing is all that worse than when
you and I were young. The cartoons were certainly more violent
I thought there was a passage in Gleanings which states that all of the
Prophets have come from the Holy Land. Of course, this may not preclude
Messengers.
Dear Matt,
What's the Holy Land?
warmest, Susan
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And in New
Mexico, the violent crime rate is actually still *10 times* what it
was in 1960, tho down about 10% from its peak in the late 90's.
Brent perception of what's going on in his area is correct.
Dear Don,
But Brent it talking about an increase in the last two or three years. You
are
Dear Brent,
Oridinarily I would agree with you about the weakness of utilizing a
pilgrim's note. But in this case the pilgrim's note in question merely
elucidates what the Will and Testament itself said regarding the the fact
that the legislative powers of the House of Justice were different
Blind obedience is when there is no attempt to understand the processes
behind a ruling or a law.
Dear Owen,
The reason I asked is that you indicated that it wasn't blind obedience
because it comes from the love of God. That's not the same as attempting to
understand the processes behind a
Yes, but, in a decentralised 3 level federal system its not hard
to imagine that
one can have a world level legislative institution whose legal
will is principally
executed/administered by the national units. Likewise the National
legislative
institution
That is, each word of
the Constitution describing a power of the House rests squarely on a verse
in the Writings.
Dear Brent,
Where does it say that?
I am really not sure what the intent of your post was.
Well, as you know I am very persnickety when it comes to things people say
are in the
What I would like to know
is whether, when the world is Baha'i, such titles will still be used for
kings.
Dear David,
I know of nothing in the Writings that explicitly indicates that there won't
be.
Surely a title such as Your Eminence, in capitals no less, would
denote superiority of
Dear David,
If you make your posts a little more succinct, I think you will find they
are more likely to be read. Usually you give us more detail than we need.
However, in this portion you didn't explain yourself:
After this I found the material fine for some time. Section 4, question 5
was
I swear by God and I say this most solemnly.
you are losing focus by discussing so much on sex and matters related to
sex.
I have to agree with Khazeh here. We do seem to losing our focus.
warmest, Susan
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"By "the exquisite place" could the Bab possibly have been
referring to a specific part of the female anatomy, in which the "seed" might
bear fruit?"
Uh, that's not
the place I had in mind.
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What exactly do they seem to be looking for in making the appointments?
And
why is it just the Canadian NSA who makes the appointments? Because they
have less work than the US NSA? Has anyone on this list been on the
Executive Committee before?
Dear David,
Canada started the ABS and when
I have only attended a couple of the annual meetings of the ABS in Canada,
but in both cases only members of the Association could vote or be voted
for in the election of the executive.
Dear David,
My understanding is that the members of the Executive Committee are
appointed by the Canadian
Self-praise is seen as a bad thing in the Baha'i Faith. We are to praise
others, but not ourselves.
Dear David,
I think before we can have much of a discussion of this issue we need to
look at the Writings involved. What is your assertion above based on?
warmest, Susan
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You are
From comments you make later evidently you find some of this stuff quite
reliable historically.
Dear David,
It may or may not be. My point is simply that 'Abdu'l-Baha doesn't pick this
kind of thing out of the air.
I'm quite well informed regarding documents within
two centuries of Jesus'
No, I mean 'properly' published in a book, visible to the bahai community
if
nothing else,as opposed to unpublished conference presentations,
photocopied
notes mailed all over the world or internet musings and such like. That is
precisely why I quoted the word 'official' to avoid your very
Thanks. Does that mean it has the same status as a pilgrim note?
Yes. Baha'i Scriptures included Pilgrim's Notes which is why Shoghi Effendi
did not wholly approve of the volume.
warmest, Susan
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As I said, I cannot remember the wording specific enough as to whether
it was adoption or raising children. The reason this so stuck in my
mind was that it seemed to permit two people of the same sex to raise
children together.
Dear Marlene,
Mothers and grandmothers do this together
I suppose it would be poetic justice if males were to be exempted/excluded
from service on the Baha'i world's future Executive Body. And there is
support in the reported sayings of 'Abdu'l-Baha for the superiority of women
in governing. Just a thought.
Dear Vaughn,
I think it was once
I'm just wondering if there is anything in the Faith, like perhaps a
letter,
bearing on the issue of what name to take when one marries.
Not to my knowledge, nor do I think there should be. This is a purely
cultural issue. Most women in most cultures keep their surnames after they
marry.
I'm just wondering if historians have got any further in penetrating the
obscurity since Shoghi Effendi wrote.
Dear David,
Ismael Velasco wrote a very nice post on the current stage of scholarship on
this topic entitled Reconstructing Ridvan a few years ago. Unfortunately it
is on my other
Susan, I hadn't seen those guidelines.
Owen
It doesn't hurt to post them. Usually they are sent out when someone
subscribes:
*List Guidelines*
1. Consultation, tolerance, and courtesy are encouraged.
All list members have a right to be treated respectfully,
regardless of their level of
What you seem to be implying is that if fundamentalists would 'grow up',
they would become liberals. I think there is a fair amount of research
that bears on this issue. As people grow up, mature in their experience
and thinking, they tend to become more conservative and relativistic.
Dear
Susan,
aren't Baha'i studies essentially about the dialogue between
contemporary society and the Baha'i teachings?.
Dear Owen,
That is not the purpose of this list.
As our guidelines state: The purpose of this list is to promote
scholarship, in particular academic scholarship, on the Baha'i
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