payments.
The major problem with the current added coverage is
that _by law_ the gov't can't negotiate with the
pharmas for drug pricing...which will not lower health
care costs at all overall, just shift it back to the
taxpayers ultimately.
snip
Since I have said I support universal health
Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
At 10:21 AM Wednesday 5/23/2007, Dan Minette wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jon louis mann
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:04 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: U.S. health care
Why do we behave
Dan Minette wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Arnett
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:57 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
You don't think there's a place for simple stories in the political
At 08:44 PM Friday 5/25/2007, Robert Seeberger wrote:
I've worked in a few hospitals here in Houston and everyone of them is
undergoing large expansions. One is left to wonder who is paying for
all this construction if not the end customers. In every hospital I
have worked in, doctors are daily
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
On 5/30/07, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
--
Mauro Diotallevi
Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the
god
of jello now. -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
On 5/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
BTW, are you also a fan of GWAR?
Heh. I saw GWAR -- which I believe stands for God What A Racket -- in a
bar in KC when they were touring to support _America Must Be
Destroyed/Phallus in Wonderland_. That must have been... 1992? 1993?
On 5/30/07, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
--
Mauro Diotallevi
Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the
god
of jello now. -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
___
OK, that
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
--
Mauro Diotallevi
Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the god
of jello now. -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
___
OK, that ranks up there with, Nothing says 'Aliens, land here!' like a
I'm jumping ahead to this thread, but have much to say
in the conservation one still (and I've only time for
one more post today)-
Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It will have to be addressed by some sort of health
care rationing. The
only question is when and how. We may
FWIW, from CNN AM QuickNews this morning:
An open letter to the candidates
Business legend Andy Grove shares a few modest proposals to fix
health care, from Fortune Magazine.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/29/news/economy/grove_column.fortune/index.htm
-- Ronn
On 5/24/07, Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 03:36 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
--
Mauro Diotallevi
Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the
god
of jello now. -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
There is already a god of
To:Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: Mauro's latest .sig, was Re: U.S. health care
On 5/24/07, Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 03:36 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
--
Mauro Diotallevi
Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you
michael moore was on bill maher tonight talking about how the richest
country in the world is 37th in health care, because the system is
being looted by the health care providers and pharmaceutical companies.
they toss enough crumbs to the doctors to keep them happy, but their
bottom line
On 25 May 2007 at 16:10, Dan Minette wrote:
If I need to see a doctor, I inform my workplace and go. I make up
the hours. That's pretty standard for non-shift workers here. As
opposed to being told to take holiday..
That's pretty standard here too...at least as far as I've seen.
For
jon louis mann wrote:
michael moore was on bill maher tonight talking about how the richest
country in the world is 37th in health care, because the system is
being looted by the health care providers and pharmaceutical companies.
they toss enough crumbs to the doctors to keep them happy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Seeberger
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 11:32 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
Ackkk!!!
That isn't the way one fairly compares such things Dan. My company
charges
! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: RE: U.S. health care
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 21:54:06 -0500
At 10:37 AM Wednesday 5/23/2007, PAT MATHEWS wrote:
One way would be to have a string of simple health
On 25/05/2007, at 7:09 AM, Dan Minette wrote:
That's true, but if one is really broke, beans and cornbread are
very cheap.
You can get the makings for a family of four for about a dollar.
And that's a sustainment diet.
It's hard to get fruit and fresh veggies cheap.
It's not hard to
Original Message:
-
From: Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 22:27:58 +1000
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
On 25/05/2007, at 7:09 AM, Dan Minette wrote:
That's true, but if one is really broke, beans and cornbread are
very cheap
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Crystall
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:32 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: RE: U.S. health care
On 23 May 2007 at 21:38, Dan Minette wrote:
SImply put, the weakest area
On 25 May 2007 at 12:52, Dan Minette wrote:
But that doesn't prove anything. The barriers to seeing a doctor in
America in the first place are still there (there is no chance to the
philosophy of access, or of methods of treatment),
I'm not sure what you are getting at. With basic
At 07:38 AM Friday 5/25/2007, PAT MATHEWS wrote:
I got the link perfectly. The video hung up the entire screen on Loading
... and I had to get out completely. What is it with msnbc videos? That's
the second one that's done this to me.
Since the ms in msnbc stands for Micro$oft you ***have*** to
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Crystall
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:13 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: RE: U.S. health care
If I need to see a doctor, I inform my workplace and go. I make up
the hours. That's
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ronn! Blankenship
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 7:45 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: RE: U.S. health care
Let us presume as was the case in the cases I have
heard of on other lists
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: U.S. health care
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ronn! Blankenship
Original Message:
-
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 20:44:13 -0500
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Friday
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
Well, I see the other side. I had a neighbor who was a blood
specialist..and couldn't find work in his specialty. He supplemented
his
income
On 5/20/07, jon louis mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why do we behave the way we behave? What has become of us? Where is
our soul?
DUMPED ON SKID ROW – Hospitals drop homeless patients on the city's
Skid Row, sometimes dressed in only a flimsy gown and without a wheel
chair, even if they're
On 5/23/07, PAT MATHEWS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As it is, I know a fair number of people who go to herbalists and other
alternative practitioners for a lot of their health care, partly because
of
all the hassle and expense involved in using the health care system
My best friend's wife goes
On 5/23/07, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This problem is a good one for discussion here. However, it will not be
solved by polemics that provide simple stories with heroes and villains
like
that provided by Moore. There is a hard way out for this, just no easy
way
out.
You
On 5/23/07, PAT MATHEWS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Heavens - even to me, reared in the system, they are often
repugnant.
You reminded me of the fact that now that I'm 50, I have to have a
colonoscopy. Reared in the system, indeed.
Nick
--
Nick Arnett
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Messages:
the responsibility and
doing the work it takes to stay healthy. Our doctors and nurses -- and
our
health care dollars -- are taken up treating people who could have
avoided
their health problems by making healthier decisions. Reducing the number
of
people in the health care system would go a long way
Nick Arnett wrote:
By letting those who are to blame for their own illnesses just die?
;-) Seriously, though, I'd have a hard time differentiating personal
from systemic causes for unhealthly lifestyles when there's so much effort
invested in advocating them in advertising, marketing and
On 23 May 2007 at 21:38, Dan Minette wrote:
SImply put, the weakest area of the American health system is
preventative care. Poorer people with chronic conditions can end up
with repeated emergency hospital treatment for conditions which are
manageable with drugs which, while not
they
happen to acquire along the way, instead of taking the responsibility
and
doing the work it takes to stay healthy. Our doctors and nurses -- and
our
health care dollars -- are taken up treating people who could have
avoided
their health problems by making healthier decisions. Reducing
On 5/24/07, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nick Arnett wrote:
By letting those who are to blame for their own illnesses just die?
;-) Seriously, though, I'd have a hard time differentiating personal
from systemic causes for unhealthly lifestyles when there's so much
effort
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
And there's a very Evil aspect of this: food with trans fat costs
_much_ less than a similar food without trans fat. If I were
paranoid, I would suggest that the reason is that Food Companies
and Medical Companies are owned by the same evil and greedy people.
You
On 25/05/2007, at 6:36 AM, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
You raise an interesting and important point. It is less expensive --
sometimes *much* less expensive -- to each unhealthy foods than it
is to eat
healthy.
Not really. It's just a lot more effort to go to the market, or plan
out your
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Arnett
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:57 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
On 5/23/07, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This problem is a good one
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charlie Bell
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:54 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
On 25/05/2007, at 6:36 AM, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
You raise an interesting
rich people.
I'm only half-way kidding.
Me too - as always.
Alberto Monteiro
you may both be right. i suspect that young poor people are important
to the market because they are still consumers, but it is almost
impossible for them to accumulate the capital necessary to invest in
proper health
Nick Arnett wrote:
By letting those who are to blame for their own illnesses just die?
People are social creatures; it's naive to imagine that some sort of
Just say no mentality would make all those problems go away. I'm
not saying you're making that argument, but I've certainly heard it.
Depends on the story. I would place Moore's story telling with the
young buck buying steak with food stamps story. There was a
documentary at the South by Southwest film festival (I think I got the
name right) in Austin, by self-proclaimed leftists, on Moore. One
tidbit about his technique is
At 03:36 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
You raise an interesting and important point. It is less expensive --
sometimes *much* less expensive -- to each unhealthy foods than it is to eat
healthy. Maybe instead of subsidizing the military-industrial complex, the
government could
At 03:36 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
--
Mauro Diotallevi
Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the god
of jello now. -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
There is already a god of Jell-O.
Just go to Utah and visit any activity where food
is
On 5/24/07, Mauro Diotallevi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm just advocating people taking more responsibility for
themselves. I've
seen too many people who eat nothing but junk food and never exercise
complaining about the low quality of health care that they receive, when
they are being
and calibration (n=9689) subsamples.
The association between health risk status and health care costs among the
membership of an Australian health plan.
_Health Promot Int._
(javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Health%20Promot%20Int.');) 2003
Mar;18(1):57-65.
_Musich S_
(http
At 03:21 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Alberto Monteiro wrote:
Nick Arnett wrote:
By letting those who are to blame for their own illnesses just die?
;-) Seriously, though, I'd have a hard time differentiating personal
from systemic causes for unhealthly lifestyles when there's so much effort
At 10:21 AM Wednesday 5/23/2007, Dan Minette wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jon louis mann
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:04 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: U.S. health care
Why do we behave the way we behave
At 10:37 AM Wednesday 5/23/2007, PAT MATHEWS wrote:
One way would be to have a string of simple health clinics that could do
checkups and make ordinary repairs - stitches, shots, setting broken bones,
monitoring diabetics, etc - and refer people to other facilities if there
were problems. They
At 05:08 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, jon louis mann wrote:
there is a part of me that believes [...] there are already too many people
on this planet.
Let me ask you some of the questions I ask everyone who says that:
(1) What do you think is the maximum number of people who could?
should? be on
there is a part of me that believes [...] there are already too many
people on this planet.
Let me ask you some of the questions I ask everyone who says that:
(1) What do you think is the maximum number of people who could?
should? be on this planet? (A range is acceptable, but some sort of
At 03:47 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Alberto Monteiro wrote:
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
I'm only half-way kidding.
Me too - as always.
Alberto Monteiro
Me three, as always.
-- Ronn! :)
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jon louis mann
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:04 PM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: U.S. health care
Why do we behave the way we behave? What has become of us? Where is
our soul?
DUMPED
be staffed by
medics, paramedics, medtechs, nurse-practitioners, etc - with a doctor on
call who also made the rounds of the clinics on a regular schedule.
As it is, I know a fair number of people who go to herbalists and other
alternative practitioners for a lot of their health care, partly because
Why do we behave the way we behave? What has become of us? Where is
our soul?
DUMPED ON SKID ROW - Hospitals drop homeless patients on the city's
Skid Row.
-- jlm
--The first thing that comes to mind is that this is an expect-able,
albeit immoral, response to the mess that hospitals find
its job, or at least not fight it. It's analogous
to explaining the treatment in the language (to quote the old Episcopalian
prayer book) Understanded of the people. Because to many traditional
people, the ways of our health care system are not only alien, but in some
cases, repugnant. Heavens
its job, or at least not fight
it. It's analogous to explaining the treatment in the language (to
quote the old Episcopalian prayer book) Understanded of the people.
Because to many traditional people, the ways of our health care system
are not only alien, but in some
cases, repugnant. Heavens
On 23 May 2007 at 10:21, Dan Minette wrote:
And, fixing this is not as easy as Moore might suggest. As it stands, over
16% of GDP is spent on health care.and this is with a significant
fraction of Americans obtaining sub-standard care If everyone was given the
BMW service, this would
@mccmedia.com
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: U.S. health care
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:16:19 -0700 (PDT)
You said: even though i am a skeptic about chanting, gris gris and
juju cures, i never negate the power of suggestion.
Those aren't supposed to work on the body, or at least
Ah. We here in the Southwest tend to feel we're the only ones who know
anything about Native Americans (blush).
Apologies.
http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/
none necessary, i also live in the southwest. my brother-in-law was a
canadian native american. i am one of those rarities, a mexican
Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: U.S. health care
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
Ah. We here in the Southwest tend to feel we're the only ones who know
anything about Native Americans (blush).
Apologies.
http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/
none necessary, i also live in the southwest
, and they are usually pipe
dreams. The subset that is not tends to be characterized by tangible
quantitative arguments...not general ones.
Having said that, I'll agree that there will be some benefit, so maybe it's
just 25% of GDP in 10 years if we do nothing but add universal health care.
Since I have
On 5/21/07, Robert G. Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070519/en_nm/cannes_sicko_dc_1;_ylt=AksZn5YYuAQpYyfeUmrQJEsE1vAI
http://tinyurl.com/39hxo7
Director Michael Moore says the U.S. health care system is driven by
greed in his new documentary SiCKO, and asks
Robert G. Seeberger wrote:
Director Michael Moore says the U.S. health care system is driven by
greed in his new documentary SiCKO, and asks of Americans in
general, Where is our soul?
Of course it's not appropriate to lay out statistics based on _one_
point, but I know a case
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070519/en_nm/cannes_sicko_dc_1;_ylt=AksZn5YYuAQpYyfeUmrQJEsE1vAI
http://tinyurl.com/39hxo7
Director Michael Moore says the U.S. health care system is driven by
greed in his new documentary SiCKO, and asks of Americans in
general, Where is our soul?
He also said he
Why do we behave the way we behave? What has become of us? Where is
our soul?
DUMPED ON SKID ROW Hospitals drop homeless patients on the citys
Skid Row, sometimes dressed in only a flimsy gown and without a wheel
chair, even if they're not healthy enough to fend for themselves.
Anderson
wise but
pound foolish' outlook in a lot of so-called health
care plans. ('Maintenance,' after all, doesn't imply
_improving_ one's health... ;P ) Same goes for
programs that educate patients about their chronic
illness(es); it takes time to teach someone how
diabetes affects them, how they can
Health Care System (what we
would call a single payor plan), paid for by taxes?
Traditionally this would be an option, however several states
are currently looking at state plans (Maine I recall is one state).
The other reason I would hesitate to use National Health Care
System per se
was in prison, though, the law said he was entitled to the best possible
health care at public expense . . .
In Larry Niven's Universe He'd Have Been A Donor Rather Than A Recipient Maru
--Ronn! :)
I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon.
I never dreamed that I would see the last
Debbie asked-
OTOH, where *does* one¹ hold the line on health costs?
This is a doozie to work through, maybe we can start this one bit at a time
and try an international flair. So far to date (after some schooling and
thinking) I like the Australian System best. Philisophically I figure
Health Care System (what we
would call a single payor plan), paid for by taxes?
I am not a huge fan of heroic life prolonging
measures,
Me neither, in the case of terminal conditions or
massive multisystem failure: while an 80 year-old with
a mild-moderate heart attack - but no other
significant
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