At 12:09 AM 4/10/2005 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
And if he did so after open-mindedly considering all sides of the issue,
would you still consider him to be closed-minded on the subject for
issuing a final decision?
I would say he gave the appearance of closing his mind on the subject by
JDG wrote:
(explanation on church stuff - thanks)
In my opinion, if one _favors_ tradition over change (or vice-versa),
then one is inherently closed minded to some extent.
So, would you say that you are/were closed-minded on school vouchers and
liberating Iraq?
I'm not sure on the first, maybe,
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: War of 1812 Re: New Pope?
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:10:49 -0400
At 05:51 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, Damon Agretto wrote:
I believe that USA vs. England in 1775
At 05:51 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, Damon Agretto wrote:
I believe that USA vs. England in 1775 and again in 1812 would both qualify
as well?
Perhaps. There's more mitigating circumstances, though. In 1775, while the
US was independently pursuing war for a time, in the end the French
alliance was
In a message dated 4/11/2005 12:22:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Wow, any more interesting folks around?
His wife is the ex-wife of Richie Havens. Quite an interesting person
The point is that there is no trend towards better in evolution.
So there is no
In a message dated 4/11/2005 12:22:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Wow, any more interesting folks around?
The point is that there is no trend towards better in evolution.
Agreed, hence my regret in using better in my first post.
Natural selection is short
JDG wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I detect the insult here.
...he says, batting his eyelashes in an expression of feigned innocence.
And if he did so after open-mindedly considering all sides of the issue,
would you still consider him to be closed-minded on the subject for
issuing a
- Original Message -
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:09 AM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
JDG wrote:
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I detect the insult here.
...he says, batting his eyelashes
In a message dated 4/9/2005 10:52:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
writes:
Evolutionary dead ends are very common in the human fossil record. In
fact, there are people who would claim that we probably don't know any
direct ancestors to Homo sapiens in that record. But if the
Zim wrote:
He is my next door neighbor. Kind of a dour guy.
Wow, any more interesting folks around?
The point is that there is no trend towards better in evolution.
Agreed, hence my regret in using better in my first post.
Natural selection is short sigthed and opportunistic. Apparent trends
At 09:09 PM 4/2/2005 -0800, Dou wrote:
I hope they pick some one more open minded and progressive to succeed him.
Out of curiosity, why do you equate open-minded with agrees with [you]?
I think there is plenty of evidence that John Paul II was *very*
open-minded, he just also happened to reach
At 11:09 PM 4/3/2005 -0500, Doug wrote:
Pffft. Developing implies some sort of progress. We're backsliding.
Out of curiosity, how is that possible if you don't believe in truth? I'm
not asking a rhetorical question. I've never figured out how, on one hand,
better and worse are simply defined
At 09:51 PM 4/5/2005 -0700, Doug wrote:
Oh, and if you looked at the individual data points would evolution go
directly from good to better to best?
What is good in the context of evolution?
Isn't the answer to the above: by definition, yes?
O.k., maybe you could point to a few exceptions,
At 06:08 PM 4/7/2005 -0400, Damon wrote:
Oddly enough, no, I don't think so. Historians who
focus on the military stuff understand military
affairs better and understand that wars are not _just_
decided by who has the bigger economy. Those who
don't look at military stuff tend, in my opinion
I believe that USA vs. England in 1775 and again in 1812 would both qualify
as well?
Perhaps. There's more mitigating circumstances, though. In 1775, while the
US was independently pursuing war for a time, in the end the French
alliance was important. In 1812 the British had much (MUCH) bigger
JDG wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you equate open-minded with agrees with
[you]?
Out of curiosity is it possible for you to carry on a debate without
heaving insults?
I think there is plenty of evidence that John Paul II was *very*
open-minded, he just also happened to reach different
JDG wrote:
And of course, the startling conclusion from Doug's remarks is that the
alternative to backsliding is a one-Party hegemony of the
Democrats.
More insults. Is that how they teach debate at Case Western or is it just
a bad habit you picked up on the internet?
--
Doug
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 12:18:22 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 09:51 PM 4/5/2005 -0700, Doug wrote:
Oh, and if you looked at the individual data points would evolution go
directly from good to better to best?
What is good in the context of evolution?
Poor wording on my part. Measure of
At 07:35 PM 4/9/2005 -0700, Doug wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you equate open-minded with agrees with
[you]?
Out of curiosity is it possible for you to carry on a debate without
heaving insults?
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I detect the insult here. Are there
issues where you
At 07:37 PM 4/9/2005 -0700, Doug wrote:
And of course, the startling conclusion from Doug's remarks is that the
alternative to backsliding is a one-Party hegemony of the
Democrats.
More insults. Is that how they teach debate at Case Western or is it just
a bad habit you picked up on the
At 07:51 PM 4/9/2005 -0700, Doug wrote:
Oh, and if you looked at the individual data points would evolution go
directly from good to better to best?
What is good in the context of evolution?
Poor wording on my part. Measure of success increased linearly, maybe?
Isn't the answer to the
On Apr 6, 2005, at 2:42 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:09 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pffft. Developing implies some sort of progress. We're
backsliding.
Out of curiosity, how
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dan wrote:
there is no empirical evidence for human rights.
I'll bet a nickle you could prove that human rights provide a more
successful strategy than the lack therof.
Well, all we have is history to
* Doug Pensinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Dan wrote:
there is no empirical evidence for human rights.
I'll bet a nickle you could prove that human rights provide a more
Or perhaps you meant:
#43 Doug Nickle Los Angeles Dodgers
Age: 30
Height: 6-4
Weight: 210 lbs.
Bats: Right
Throws:
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dan wrote
Erik Reuter wrote:
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dan wrote:
there is no empirical evidence for human rights.
I'll bet a nickle you could prove that human rights provide a more
successful strategy than the lack therof.
Well, all we have is history
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
inevitable. Are you arguing that they are wrong? Are you arguing
that he misquoted them?
I'm not arguing anything. I stated (again, this has come up from you
before and I responded before) that you were wrong about history being
the only way to settle
* Julia Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
And where are you whenever someone gets the its/it's thing wrong?
Nowhere to be found! Sheesh!
Its not easy to joke about that when ones own mistakes caused a dog to
lose it's tail in a horrible punctuation accident.
--
Erik Reuter
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Let me focus things down to one question. According
to Gautam, one of our
resident Civil War buffs, the consensus among
historians is that the
victory by the North in the Civil War was very
fortuitous. It was not
inevitable. Are you arguing that
- Original Message -
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Let me focus things down to one question. According
to Gautam, one
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
inevitable. Are you arguing that they are wrong? Are you arguing
that he
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
there is no empirical evidence for human rights. Holding truths
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
inevitable. Are you
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
A civilization with tremendous personal freedom and minimal physical
wants is certainly a worthwhile goal. Being willing to work for it,
even though you won't see it yourself
I'm not so certain. Maybe a way to achieve near-immortality will be
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED
On Apr 7, 2005, at 9:01 AM, Erik Reuter wrote:
* Julia Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
And where are you whenever someone gets the its/it's thing wrong?
Nowhere to be found! Sheesh!
Its not easy to joke about that when ones own mistakes caused a dog to
lose it's tail in a horrible punctuation
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
A civilization with tremendous personal freedom and minimal physical
wants
Dan Minette wrote
OK, I'll agree that I don't need any faith to state that I don't
like to be hurt.
... but I'm stating that there is no factual basis for human
rights.
This does not make sense. If you don't like to be hurt -- if you
don't like the fact of someone else's `fist
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Sure, maybe the horse will learn to sing. :
Much more likely than that.
A lot longer. But, that has nothing to do with the question at hand. You
Wrong again, Dan.
--
Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/
* Dave Land ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Apr 7, 2005, at 9:01 AM, Erik Reuter wrote:
* Julia Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
And where are you whenever someone gets the its/it's thing wrong?
Nowhere to be found! Sheesh!
Its not easy to joke about that when ones own mistakes caused
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Erik wrote:
Why didn't you respond to the questions I posted last night?
Because I did. :-)
Wrong again, Dan. In your head doesn't count.
--
Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/
___
On Apr 7, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Erik Reuter wrote:
* Dave Land ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Apr 7, 2005, at 9:01 AM, Erik Reuter wrote:
* Julia Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
And where are you whenever someone gets the its/it's thing wrong?
Nowhere to be found! Sheesh!
Its not easy to joke
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Erik wrote:
Why didn't you respond to the questions I posted last night
- Original Message -
From: Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
Dan Minette wrote
OK, I'll agree that I don't need any faith to state that I don't
like to be hurt.
... but I'm
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dan, just to be fair, not fortuitous, but not
inevitable either. I think most (but not all)
historians think that Northern victory was likely,
given its resource advantage.
I included the fact that someone as talented as
Lincoln being elected
Dan Minette wrote:
...
Out of curiosity, why would Weinburg have the same handicap? He stated
that the lack of a logical calculus basis for morality was his greatest
regret. That's one way to express the point I've been making with these
arguments.
Yes, it is a great pity that there is no
Oddly enough, no, I don't think so. Historians who
focus on the military stuff understand military
affairs better and understand that wars are not _just_
decided by who has the bigger economy. Those who
don't look at military stuff tend, in my opinion
(Damon, for example, may disagree) to
Dan Minette wrote
OK, I'll agree that I don't need any faith to state that I
don't like to be hurt.
... but I'm stating that there is no factual basis for human
rights.
I wrote
This does not make sense. If you don't like to be hurt -- if
you don't
Erik Reuter wrote:
* Dave Land ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Apr 7, 2005, at 9:01 AM, Erik Reuter wrote:
* Julia Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
And where are you whenever someone gets the its/it's thing wrong?
Nowhere to be found! Sheesh!
Its not easy to joke about that when ones own
Gautam wrote:
Dan, just to be fair, not fortuitous, but not
inevitable either. I think most (but not all)
historians think that Northern victory was likely,
given its resource advantage. I don't, actually, I
think it was actually very unlikely, and I think that
opinion is more common the more
Erik wrote:
* Doug Pensinger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Dan wrote:
there is no empirical evidence for human rights.
I'll bet a nickle you could prove that human rights provide a more
Or perhaps you meant:
#43 Doug Nickle Los Angeles Dodgers
Age: 30
Height: 6-4
Weight: 210 lbs.
Bats: Right
At 11:51 PM Tuesday 4/5/2005, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Dan wrote:
I realize that a president neither you nor I voted for is in office.
But, I believe in standards that are superior to Dan likes or Doug likes.
Besides Bush's actions are not your druthers, what basis can you use to
say we've gone
- Original Message -
From: Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:09 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pffft. Developing implies
Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have mixed feelings about John Paul II's tenure.
He certainly was a
major factor in the liberation of Eastern Europe, I
agree with the
church's stance on the death penalty and I applauded
him for opposing the
current debacle in Iraq. On the
Ronn! wrote:
Is it reflected in a statistically significant decline in immigration
rates?
I've read recently that it was, in fact, but I don't have a cite. It was
an article about how fewere professionals and students were electing to
come here.
--
Doug
Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:09 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pffft
- Original Message -
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs
* Dan Minette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
there is no empirical evidence for human rights. Holding truths to be
self-evident indicates that the founding fathers believed this too.
It makes sense, because that understanding was very much a part of the
enlightenment.
I think many people would
Dan wrote:
there is no empirical evidence for human rights.
I'll bet a nickle you could prove that human rights provide a more
successful strategy than the lack therof. Any study that showed that well
treated, contented people were more productive than ill treated
malcontents would do it.
--
- Original Message -
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
Dan wrote:
there is no empirical evidence for human rights.
I'll bet a nickle you could prove that human rights
- Original Message -
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
Dan wrote:
Pffft. Developing implies some sort of progress. We're backsliding.
Out of curiosity, how
Dan wrote:
I realize that a president neither you nor I voted for is in office.
But, I believe in standards that are superior to Dan likes or Doug
likes.
Besides Bush's actions are not your druthers, what basis can you use to
say we've gone backwards over the last four years.
I'm way to tired
On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:09 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pffft. Developing implies some sort of progress. We're backsliding.
Out of curiosity, how is that possible if you don't believe in truth?
Um, what?
I assume here you mean some kind of godly entity, rather than
Dan Minette wrote:
The leading candiates are a Nigerian and a Brazilian. I would rate the
odds of an American as 1000 to 1. So, Alberto may be able to use his ties
to the new Pope to influence JDG in the future. :-)
I think it depends on whether they want to gain or to prevent losses
Original message
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 21:42:39 -0600
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: New Pope?
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
The leading candiates are a Nigerian and a Brazilian. I
would rate the
odds of an American as 1000 to 1. So, Alberto may
On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:29:59 -0700, Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Apr 2, 2005, at 10:09 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote:
I don't imagine I'd give a damn about what the Catholic Church and
their pope did except for the inordinate influence they have over so
much of the developing world.
- Original Message -
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
Pffft. Developing implies some sort of progress. We're backsliding.
Out of curiosity, how is that possible if you
- Original Message -
From: JOHN GIORGIS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
I don't know what source Dan is using to call a Nigerian and
a Brazilian the leading candidates - but I would point out
Dan wrote:
Pffft. Developing implies some sort of progress. We're backsliding.
Out of curiosity, how is that possible if you don't believe in truth?
huh?
I'm not asking a rhetorical question. I've never figured out how, on
one hand, better and worse are simply defined in terms of a given
At 11:24 PM Sunday 4/3/2005, Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: JOHN GIORGIS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: New Pope?
I don't know what source Dan is using to call a Nigerian and
a Brazilian
The leading candiates are a Nigerian and a Brazilian. I would rate the
odds of an American as 1000 to 1. So, Alberto may be able to use his ties
to the new Pope to influence JDG in the future. :-)
Dan M.
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo
On Apr 2, 2005, at 8:42 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
The leading candiates are a Nigerian and a Brazilian. I would rate the
odds of an American as 1000 to 1. So, Alberto may be able to use his
ties
to the new Pope to influence JDG in the future. :-)
I'm holding out for a woman this time.
--
Warren
In a message dated 4/2/2005 9:05:17 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm holding out for a woman this time.
Stop holding it out and put it back.
Vilyehm
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
I have mixed feelings about John Paul II's tenure. He certainly was a
major factor in the liberation of Eastern Europe, I agree with the
church's stance on the death penalty and I applauded him for opposing the
current debacle in Iraq. On the other hand I found his medieval (just an
On Apr 2, 2005, at 10:09 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote:
I don't imagine I'd give a damn about what the Catholic Church and
their pope did except for the inordinate influence they have over so
much of the developing world.
Meaning, of course, the USA.
--
Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares
On Sat, 2 Apr 2005, Dan Minette wrote:
The leading candiates are a Nigerian and a Brazilian. I would rate the
odds of an American as 1000 to 1. So, Alberto may be able to use his
ties to the new Pope to influence JDG in the future. :-)
Unless the new pope is Nigerian, which is how I'd
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