Jon wrote
I think a more relevant question is whether or not Saddam Hussein will
use chemical weapons against coalition forces when he realizes he's
about to lose the war. He, unlike the Israelis, has shown that he has
no compunction in using them against his enemies. (He used them against
Ilana wrote
And, again, I ask you to check the world map.
Jeroen answered
I *am* familiar with the world map, *and* with Israel's location on
it. No need to check it again.
Not location. Size. Especially in relation to our peace-loving
neighbours. All 22 or 23 of them. I think that cartoon came
Jeroen wrote
In The Netherlands, each prisoner has his/her own cell, they don't
share cells. From your description, it looks like what you saw was a
holding cell at a police station; it was definitely not a prison cell.
And I, probably, should ask if this makes in right. SHRUG
Ilana
At 10:20 26-03-03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
I see. You do not punish criminals in your country.
No, Ilana, we *do* punish criminals -- we're just not in the habit of
violating their human rights by keeping them in solitary confinement
for 15 years. Unlike Israel (apparently), we actually
At 10:01 27-03-03 -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote:
The US has declared for years that the only WMDs we have in our possession
are nukes. We don't own or use chemical or biological weapons.
At least, none that you know about. The US government has been lying to the
public before, so I wouldn't just
At 07:28 27-03-03 +0200, Ilana Halupovich wrote:
Jeroen
If it was later proven to be mass hysteria, I'm sure it would have been
mentioned in the documentary.
It should have been. If the documentary was trying to be objective, that is.
I have no reason to believe that the BBC would be trying to
At 07:47 27-03-03 +0200, Ilana Halupovich wrote:
Jeroen asked
If a country's arsenal of WMD's is nobody else's business, why did the
US consider Iraq's *alleged* arsenal of WMD's a reason to go to war?
Because it's crazy enough to use it?
And, again, I ask you to check the world map.
I *am*
J. van Baardwijk wrote:
At 10:20 26-03-03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
I see. You do not punish criminals in your country.
No, Ilana, we *do* punish criminals -- we're just not in the habit of
violating their human rights by keeping them in solitary confinement
for 15 years.
- Original Message -
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Israel's Secret Weapon
J. van Baardwijk wrote:
At 10:20 26-03-03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
I see. You do not punish
From: Halupovich Ilana [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:14:07 +0200
Jon wrote
I think a more relevant question is whether or not Saddam Hussein will
use chemical weapons against
From: Damon
I think what would be even more illuminating about this attack is the
nature of the gas. Its quite possible that it may have been a *new*
non-lethal suppressive gas that had unforseen serious side-effects. Has
this gas been used since? Has any report been done on the use of this
Damon wrote:
think what would be even more illuminating about this attack is the
nature of the gas. Its quite possible that it may have been a *new*
non-lethal suppressive gas that had unforseen serious side-effects. Has
this gas been used since? Has any report been done on the use of this
gas?
Andrew Crystall wrote:
The conduct of the Chechyen war by Russia in general has been
frankly disgusting, has cost many Russian lives and has managed by it's
incomplete effectiveness to become a continuing problem.
Alberto Monteiro
What should they do? Blast Chechynea back to the Stone Age?
Jon wrote
I think a more relevant question is whether or not Saddam Hussein will
use chemical weapons against coalition forces when he realizes he's
about to lose the war. He, unlike the Israelis, has shown that he has
no compunction in using them against his enemies. (He used them against
At 01:41 PM 3/27/03 -0600, Horn, John wrote:
From: Jon Gabriel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You still are not getting it, don't you? :-( The question
is, is he is
going to use them against his own people and blame it on coalition
forces. :-(
I get it, but don't think that will be a
Andrew Crystall wrote:
The conduct of the Chechyen war by Russia in general
has been frankly disgusting, has cost many Russian
lives and has managed by it's incomplete effectiveness
to become a continuing problem.
What should they do? Blast Chechynea back to the Stone
Age?
Alberto
From: Halupovich Ilana [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:15:30 +0200
Jon wrote
Does Israel _have_ either biological or chemical weapons? We've shown
somewhat unambiguously onlist
At 09:42 PM 3/26/03 +, Robert J. Chassell wrote:
Mutual Assured Destruction only works as a peace-creation mechanism if
neither side has people who might be willing to commit suicide in an
attack on the other. If one side fears the other has people who are
willing to die in an attack, its
At 07:58 AM 3/27/03 +0200, Halupovich Ilana wrote:
Ron wrote
This might have been before your time, or it may never have aired on
Dutch TV, but by any chance do you recall a TV series from the 1970s
called Baretta, and in particular its opening theme?
Tony Baretta, the detective with the parrot!
On 27 Mar 2003 at 10:01, Jon Gabriel wrote:
I get it, but don't think that will be a particularly effective ploy.
The US has declared for years that the only WMDs we have in our
possession are nukes. We don't own or use chemical or biological
weapons. Coalition force leaders have been
On 27 Mar 2003 at 9:01, Alberto Monteiro wrote:
Andrew Crystall wrote:
The conduct of the Chechyen war by Russia in general
has been frankly disgusting, has cost many Russian
lives and has managed by it's incomplete effectiveness
to become a continuing problem.
What should
From: Jon Gabriel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You still are not getting it, don't you? :-( The question
is, is he is
going to use them against his own people and blame it on coalition
forces. :-(
I get it, but don't think that will be a particularly
effective ploy.
I disagree.
I disagree. There are folks out there who think the CIA or the Israelis
engineered the 9/11 attacks for whatever reason. Someone who would believe
that would have no trouble believing that the US would gas their own troops
(let alone innocent Iraqis) just to make it look like Saddam had these
At 03:41 PM 3/27/03 -0500, Damon wrote:
I disagree. There are folks out there who think the CIA or the Israelis
engineered the 9/11 attacks for whatever reason. Someone who would believe
that would have no trouble believing that the US would gas their own troops
(let alone innocent Iraqis) just
Halupovich Ilana wrote:
Sonja wrote
I believe the report mentioned something about chemical agents being
used on Palestinians civilians. However it wasn't made clear if it was
an accident or done on purpose.
I wrote
Check you resources. It was proven to be mass hysteria.
Jeroen asked
Halupovich Ilana wrote:
Julia asked
Quick question: What's the maximum punishment for treason in your
country?
I don't know. Vaanunu is *supposed* to be released next year, however,
based on the Weitzman Institute spy, I suspect that it is as long as he
presents danger. Not much for the
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Israel's Secret Weapon
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:39:07 -0600
Halupovich Ilana wrote:
Sonja wrote
I believe the report mentioned something about
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Horn, John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: dinsdag 25 maart 2003 23:41
Aan: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
Onderwerp: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
Building up such an arsenal when you know you'll never be able to use
it is basically just a huge waste
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Damon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 1:16
Aan: Killer Bs Discussion
Onderwerp: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
Give me *one* good reason why a country should have *undeclared*
nuclear, biological and chemical weapons
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Halupovich Ilana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 7:47
Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Onderwerp: Re: Israel's Secret Weapon
When you start working for government in *any* way, you sign
no-disclosure (sp) forms. You know
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Halupovich Ilana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 8:07
Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Onderwerp: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
He is in solitary confinement (sp). Not different from what any other
spy got.
Jeroen wrote
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
I think it's written
Si vis pacem para bellum
This is obvious. But then Quidquid latine dictum sit,
altum viditur
Alberto Monteiro
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
At 12:52 PM 3/26/03 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Halupovich Ilana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 8:07
Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Onderwerp: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
He is in solitary confinement (sp). Not different from what
IYou didn't answer the question. Why did Israel build up such a huge arsenal
of nuclear weapons, if using them would be suicide?
Deterrance.
If a country's arsenal of WMD's is nobody else's business, why did the US
consider Iraq's *alleged* arsenal of WMD's a reason to go to war?
Perhaps
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 16:53
Aan: Killer Bs Discussion
Onderwerp: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
This might have been before your time, or it may never have aired on
Dutch TV, but by any chance do you
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Halupovich Ilana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 7:47
Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Onderwerp: Re: Israel's Secret Weapon
When you start working for government in *any* way, you sign
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Damon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 17:05
Aan: Killer Bs Discussion
Onderwerp: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
You didn't answer the question. Why did Israel build up such a huge
arsenal of nuclear weapons, if using them would
At 05:04 PM 3/26/03 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 16:53
Aan: Killer Bs Discussion
Onderwerp: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
This might have been before your time, or it may never
Before Vanunu went to the press, nobody even knew Israel *had* nuclear
weapons. If your enemies don't *know* you have nuclear weapons, they can't
work as a detterent.
No, they didn't know beforehand, but they know now. Besides, in a war,
Israel could easily declare or threaten that they DO have
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is one overwhelming difference here. MAD worked
because *both* sides had huge numbers of nuclear
weapons aimed at each other; AFAIK, the Arab nations
do not even *have* nuclear weapons, let alone have
them pointed at Israel.
Even though Mutually Assured
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 17:15:59 +0100
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Damon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 17:05
Aan: Killer Bs
From: Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:30:04 -0500
snip
Does Israel _have_ either biological or chemical weapons? We've shown
somewhat ambiguously onlist
I think a more relevant question is whether or not Saddam Hussein will use
chemical weapons against coalition forces when he realizes he's about to
lose the war. He, unlike the Israelis, has shown that he has no
compunction in using them against his enemies. (He used them against
Iranian
I think what would be even more illuminating about this attack is the
nature of the gas. Its quite possible that it may have been a *new*
non-lethal suppressive gas that had unforseen serious side-effects. Has
this gas been used since? Has any report been done on the use of this gas?
What kind
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
Before Vanunu went to the press, nobody even knew Israel *had*
nuclear weapons.
This is not true. Mordechai Vanunu told people in 1986. In my
personal memory, the story about Israeli nuclear weapons came out
1973, which is thirteen years
From: Damon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think what would be even more illuminating about this attack is the
nature of the gas. Its quite possible that it may have been a *new*
non-lethal suppressive gas that had unforseen serious
side-effects. Has
this gas been used since? Has any
Damon wrote:
I think what would be even more illuminating about this attack is the
nature of the gas. Its quite possible that it may have been a *new*
non-lethal suppressive gas that had unforseen serious
side-effects. Has
this gas been used since? Has any report been done on the use
of
On Wednesday, March 26, 2003, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: woensdag 26 maart 2003 16:53
Aan: Killer Bs Discussion
Onderwerp: RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
This might have been before your time
On 26 Mar 2003 at 19:05, Reggie Bautista wrote:
Damon wrote:
I think what would be even more illuminating about this attack
is the nature of the gas. Its quite possible that it may have been
a *new* non-lethal suppressive gas that had unforseen serious
side-effects. Has this gas
Sonja wrote
I believe the report mentioned something about chemical agents being
used on Palestinians civilians. However it wasn't made clear if it was
an accident or done on purpose.
I wrote
Check you resources. It was proven to be mass hysteria.
Jeroen asked
Can you provide a link to that
Jeroen asked
If a country's arsenal of WMD's is nobody else's business, why did the
US consider Iraq's *alleged* arsenal of WMD's a reason to go to war?
Because it's crazy enough to use it?
And, again, I ask you to check the world map.
Ilana
___
Ron wrote
This might have been before your time, or it may never have aired on
Dutch TV, but by any chance do you recall a TV series from the 1970s
called Baretta, and in particular its opening theme?
Tony Baretta, the detective with the parrot! VBG I loved those series.
I saw them on METV -
Jeroen asked about Baretta
So, what does a 1970's TV series, and particularly its opening theme, have to do
with Israel's nuclear/biological/chemical arsenal?
Don't (something) crime, don't do it? I am not sure.
Ron, Do you know, per chance, where I can find it?
Ilana, who saw the series in
Julia asked
Quick question: What's the maximum punishment for treason in your
country?
I don't know. Vaanunu is *supposed* to be released next year, however,
based on the Weitzman Institute spy, I suspect that it is as long as he
presents danger. Not much for the human right in my country, isn't
Jon wrote
I think a more relevant question is whether or not Saddam Hussein will
use chemical weapons against coalition forces when he realizes he's
about to lose the war. He, unlike the Israelis, has shown that he has
no compunction in using them against his enemies. (He used them against
Julia asked about Israel using/not using unconventional weapons on
Palestinians
A link would be nice, yes.
But a few questions: When was the proof released? What was the release
date on the documentary?
Sorry, I *do* wish that I had the link, but for *me* Internet didn't
even exist then -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2841377.stm
Halupovich Ilana wrote:
Jeroen wrote
I found the documentary very disturbing. Just to mentions a few
things:
* For years Israel lied about having a nuclear program (the plant in
Dimona where Israel was making plutonium for
At 09:18 25-03-03 +0200, Ilana Halupovich wrote:
I found the documentary very disturbing. Just to mentions a few things:
* For years Israel lied about having a nuclear program (the plant in
Dimona where Israel was making plutonium for bombs was said to be a
textiles factory).
1. There are
From: J. van Baardwijk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Building up such an arsenal when you know you'll never be
able to use it is
basically just a huge waste of time, money and other resources.
It kept the Soviets out of Western Europe for a long time during the Cold
War. And eventually
Give me *one* good reason why a country should have *undeclared* nuclear,
biological and chemical weapons, and *no* outside inspections.
devil's advocate Because Israel's neighbours, both past and present, have
declared Israel's destruction? /devil's advocate
Damon.
At 07:15 PM 3/25/03 -0500, Damon wrote:
Give me *one* good reason why a country should have *undeclared* nuclear,
biological and chemical weapons, and *no* outside inspections.
devil's advocate Because Israel's neighbours, both past and present,
have declared Israel's destruction? /devil's
Halupovich Ilana wrote:
I wrote
When you start working for government in *any* way, you sign
no-disclosure (sp) forms. You know the punishment.
He is in solitary confinement. Not different from what any other spy
got.
Sonja asked
And that makes it OK?
I see. You do not punish criminals in your
Jeroen wrote
* The treatment Vanunu was given was nothing less than a blatant
violation of human rights. As Mary Eoloff (the female half of the
American couple who adopted him) said: He was buried alive. He was shut
up in a six by nine-foot cell with no windows so he couldn't see
outside. Even
At 10:17 17-03-03 +0200, Ilana Halupovich wrote:
Israeli nuclear 'power' exposed
By Olenka Frankiel
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2841377.stm
Vaanunu was kidnapped in Rome, not in London. Now if this reporter could
not give *one* fact right, why should I think that other
Jeroen wrote
I found the documentary very disturbing. Just to mentions a few
things:
* For years Israel lied about having a nuclear program (the plant in
Dimona where Israel was making plutonium for bombs was said to be a
textiles factory).
1. There are *several* textile factories in Dimona.
2.
From: Halupovich Ilana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2841377.stm
Vaanunu was kidnapped in Rome, not in London. Now if this
reporter could
not give *one* fact right, why should I think that other facts are
right?
The article did say it
Jeroen gave a link
Israeli nuclear 'power' exposed
By Olenka Frankiel
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2841377.stm
Vaanunu was kidnapped in Rome, not in London. Now if this reporter could
not give *one* fact right, why should I think that other facts are
right?
Ilana
On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 10:58:54PM +0100, J. van Baardwijk wrote:
For those interested, _Israel's Secret Weapon_ will be aired tomorrow
(Monday) on BBC Two at the ungodly hour of 23:20 GMT (which, in my
timezone, is the even more ungodly time of 00:20 hours).
That's what videos are for.
--
At 17:21 16-03-03 +0100, I wrote:
Tonight on _Correspondent_ (BBC Two, 19:15 GMT): Israel's Secret Weapon.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2837671.stm
The United States and Britain are preparing to wage war on Iraq, for its
undisclosed weapons of mass destruction.
Israel's
At 17:21 16-03-03 +0100, I wrote:
Tonight on _Correspondent_ (BBC Two, 19:15 GMT): Israel's Secret Weapon.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2837671.stm
The United States and Britain are preparing to wage war on Iraq, for its
undisclosed weapons of mass destruction.
Israel's
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