Doug wrote:
Furthermore, because of concerns about climate change and unrest in
the middle east, a prediction that batteries and cheap electric cars
are going to be in great demand over the next several decades is a
good bet.
I have no arguement against the concept that cheap batteries and
On Jan 23, 2009, at 12:00 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote:
Since then, I've been seeing promises of competative electric cars.
When
gas prices were at $4.50/gallon, the premium for hybrids was within
$1000
of being a wash. But, now that prices are back close to $1.50
(around
- Original Message -
From: dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Since then, I've been seeing promises of competative electric cars. When
gas prices were at $4.50/gallon
Original Message:
-
From: xponentrob xponent...@comcast.net
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:56:08 -0600
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
- Original Message -
From: dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Friday
- Original Message -
From: dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Original Message:
-
From: xponentrob xponent...@comcast.net
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:56:08
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Bostwick
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On Jan 23, 2009
- Original Message -
From: xponentrob xponent...@comcast.net
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years
On Jan 23, 2009, at 5:07 PM, xponentrob wrote:
From: xponentrob xponent...@comcast.net
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years
Dan wrote:
I googled for that and found nothing that hinted at that. Given China's
only two priorities:
1) The government keeps total control
2) The economy keeps expanding
Excellent points Dan, but what you fail to see is how requiring electric
vehicles would accomplish both more
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of xponentrob
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 7:47 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
- Original Message
Dan M wrote:
Sure, it's been argued for a long time that Americans can do with a lot
less. Let's say we do. The problem is that this argument doesn't hold for
the Chinese, who are now the leading emitter of greenhouse gasses. My view
was that the West had the money to buy a home run,
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Doug Pensinger
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 10:33 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Dan M wrote
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of xponentrob
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 7:47 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Did you see 60 Minutes
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of xponentrob
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 6:16 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
- Original Message
Dan M wrote:
But, it also means that wind can't be counted on. In another forum I was
debating this, and was led to a website maintained by the company that has
the largest fraction of wind in its mix. They stated that they can only
count on about 5% of nameplate capacity, and that this was
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Nick Arnett narn...@mccmedia.com wrote:
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro
albm...@centroin.com.br wrote:
Why there are no natural gas cars in the USA?
There are. I see them all the time around here. Some public
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro
albm...@centroin.com.br wrote:
Why there are no natural gas cars in the USA?
There are. I see them all the time around here. Some public utilities run
all their vehicles on compressed natural gas. Here in California, CNG
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Doug Pensinger
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:50 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Dan wrote
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of xponentrob
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:11 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
- Original Message
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
First, I got a not there when looking for the paper. Second
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/business/11electric.html?ref=autoshow
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/automobiles/autoshow/11SHOW.html?em
Ford
http://www.freep.com/article/20090111/BUSINESS03/90111045/1016/BUSINESS01/Ford+outlines+electric++hybrid+plans
Dan M wrote:
Personally, I'd bet a beer that bioengineered fuels, that have 10x the
efficiency of ethanol production will have a significant market share in 10
years (say 10% of jet fuel), but electric cars will not be a significant
player (5% of cars sold worldwide in 2019) in that time.
Dan wrote:
But, let's just take 30. At $1.50/gal, that's 5 cents/mile. Lets say
these
cars are kept for 150k, which is on the high side...that's 7.5k for gas.
The break even point, assuming CDs pay zero, with the MSRP discount, is
close to $6.00/gal. And, that's comparing with a smaller
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
The Tesla is not the best example one could use. I think
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of xponentrob
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:50 AM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Sheesh Dan! You
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:24 PM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of xponentrob
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
If one wants to make
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun
The Tesla is not the best example one could use. I think the Heuliez Will
is a better example of an electric vehicle that is just about there. The
price should be around 27-34K (when it hits market) and the car can do 0
- 60 in around 10 seconds with a top speed of 87MPH and has a range
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Bostwick
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:42 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On Jan 5, 2009
Dan M wrote:
Look at
http://www.allaboutbatteries.com/Battery-Energy.html
And if you RTFA, you'll see a not implausible argument made by Sherry
Boschertthat Cabasys is squelching the market for large-format NiMH
batteries:
In her book, Plug-in Hybrids: The Cars that Will Recharge
Dan M wrote:
and you'll see what I mean. We know that the energy density of gasoline is
about 46 MJ/Kg. Compare this to the best, most expensive battery (Li ion),
and we get a factor of 100. Electric cars are more efficient (90% vs 20%),
so this gets down to a factor of 22 or so in
- Original Message -
From: Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.br
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Does it really matters? As long
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of xponentrob
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:09 AM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
If there's biofuel
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun
On 8 Jan 2009, at 01:21, xponentrob wrote:
If one wants to make direct comparisons of a type of batteries
capabilities,
one has to go no farther than a hardware store or Lowes or Home Depot.
I've been using cordless drills for a couple of decades. They were
once
using Ni-Cad batteries,
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun
Doug Pensinger wrote:
On an SF list you forget Aerospace?
Aerospace is no longer future history, it's alternate history.
Alberto Monteiro
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2009, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
At 12:09 AM Tuesday 1/6/2009, xponentrob wrote:
xponent
Watt?The Current News Is Shocking Mr Volta! Maru
rob
Ohm, that's revolting.
Sigh. You just can't resist jumping into these pun threads, can you?
Julia
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote:
How does an economy grow on momentum?
The mortgage industry managed to do it for a while.
Nick
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At 08:11 AM Tuesday 1/6/2009, Julia Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
At 12:09 AM Tuesday 1/6/2009, xponentrob wrote:
xponent
Watt?The Current News Is Shocking Mr Volta! Maru
rob
Ohm, that's revolting.
Sigh. You just can't resist jumping into these
On Jan 6, 2009, at 12:05 AM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
Point being, as has been mentioned previously,
there are some parts of the US at least where a
vehicle such as described will not serve the
need, or where one with those limitations might
be enough for some trips but for which at least
On Jan 6, 2009, at 12:09 AM, xponentrob wrote:
Most of the electrics are using Lithium Ion batteries and getting
ranges
similar to what you posit here. Indeed, several exceed 140 MPC,
though they
generally are high end and expensive.
Altairnano Technology has batteries that will work
- Original Message -
From: Charlie Bell char...@culturelist.org
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On 05/01/2009, at 6:22 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote:
Surely Canada
On 05/01/2009, at 7:59 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote:
Pedantic humour aside Dan's statement that the US is far less densely
populated than any other developed country is plainly incorrect.
Oh yeah, blatantly. I was just being funny about the two you
mentioned, 'cause they're very densely populated in
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Wayne Eddy
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 1:23 AM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
Surely Canada Australia
Probably true, but don't let the Canadians hear you say that .. :D ..
Hey, you, down in the States, take off, eh?! Hoser!
(Bit of a sensitive subject up there, I hear.)
On Jan 5, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Dan M wrote:
I know Canada is almost a suburb of the US, with most of the
population living
On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:13 PM, Dan M wrote:
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-
boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Bostwick
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:49 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse
On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:13 PM, Dan M wrote:
And yet, you sing we're on the eve of destruction?
Dan M.
I guess part of my cynicism is frustration at having had to live in
the wake of the Boomers most of my life, and survive on the scraps
they missed, when it seems the only response to my
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Bostwick
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:30 AM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On Jan 4, 2009, at 9
- Original Message -
From: Dan M dsummersmi...@comcast.net
To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion' brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:49 AM
Subject: RE: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
They are. In my haste in writing I was less precise than I
On 06/01/2009, at 3:49 AM, Dan M wrote:
Finally, I have a question for those from Oz. My understanding is
that most
of the population of Oz lives on the southern coast because the vast
center
of Australia is not a great place to put a lot of people. Is that
accurate?
Yep. In fact,
On 06/01/2009, at 7:58 AM, Dan M wrote:
With a few minor exceptions, the USA is running largely on momentum,
which is finite.
How does an economy grow on momentum?
It doesn't, indefinitely. And GDP is a poor measure, it really is. It
doesn't tackle the important stuff, like how many
Original Message:
-
From: Charlie Bell char...@culturelist.org
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:48:53 +1100
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On 06/01/2009, at 7:58 AM, Dan M wrote:
With a few minor exceptions, the USA is running
On 06/01/2009, at 9:41 AM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote:
It doesn't, indefinitely. And GDP is a poor measure, it really is.
Even GDP per capita? Even after figuring in purchasing power
parity? Is
your arguement that per person income is not a good financial
measure of
the wealth
et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On Jan 2, 2009, at 8:35 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote:
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts
At 08:36 AM Monday 1/5/2009, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:13 PM, Dan M wrote:
And yet, you sing we're on the eve of destruction?
Dan M.
I guess part of my cynicism is frustration at having had to live in
the wake of the Boomers most of my life, and survive on the scraps
they
On 1/5/2009 12:26:56 PM, Bruce Bostwick (lihan161...@sbcglobal.net) wrote:
Probably true, but
don't let the Canadians hear you say that .. :D ..
Hey, you, down in the States, take off, eh?! Hoser!
(Bit of a sensitive subject up there, I hear.)
On Jan 5, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Dan M wrote:
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Bostwick
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:37 AM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On Jan 4, 2009, at 9
On an SF list you forget Aerospace?
I thought of it and meant to include it; does that count for partial credit?
:-) Good catch.
Dan M.
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On 06/01/2009, at 1:52 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote:
On an SF list you forget Aerospace?
Yes! The world's first supersonic jetliner was American! The world's
largest passenger jet is American! The world's largest military
transport is... American!!!
No, wait.
;-)
Admittedly, the most
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Charlie Bell
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:15 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
My attitude
On 06/01/2009, at 2:37 PM, Dan M wrote:
You know you've now changed the subject from the original topic.
Conversational drift. Blame the viral load. Chewy phlegm. Yum.
I was
arguing, rather convincingly IMHO, that the US was not horrid and
not about
to fall.
Well, to drag it back - by
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009, Charlie Bell wrote:
On 06/01/2009, at 2:37 PM, Dan M wrote:
You have now forced me into the following response by this action sir:
I agree with you.
Woohoo.
Woo hoo?
Julia
___
On 06/01/2009, at 2:55 PM, Julia Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009, Charlie Bell wrote:
On 06/01/2009, at 2:37 PM, Dan M wrote:
You have now forced me into the following response by this action
sir:
I agree with you.
Woohoo.
Woo hoo?
Expression of delight. Usually accompanied
On Jan 5, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
The few
productive industries we have in the USA now (the auto industry
springing immediately to mind) are in such sad shape -- in the auto
industry's case, from putting more energy into fighting a phase c
hange into a PHEV/BEV
On Jan 5, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Dan M wrote:
The few
productive industries we have in the USA now (the auto industry
springing immediately to mind) are in such sad shape -- in the auto
industry's case, from putting more energy into fighting a phase c
hange into a PHEV/BEV based market than they
At 11:42 PM Monday 1/5/2009, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
The demand is there, make no mistake about it. As soon as a 100-mile-
range battery powered car is available, there are plenty of people
Although there are still plenty of people who
live in places like the Western US where there is
nothing
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Bostwick lihan161...@sbcglobal.net
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On Jan 5, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Dan M wrote:
The few
At 12:09 AM Tuesday 1/6/2009, xponentrob wrote:
xponent
Watt?The Current News Is Shocking Mr Volta! Maru
rob
Ohm, that's revolting.
. . . ronn! :)
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On 06/01/2009, at 4:42 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
If there's biofuel technology that doesn't significantly impact the
food stream as a source of motor vehicle fuel, then I'm all for it.
I'm not anywhere near PC myself, and if there's a GMO solution that
actually does provide a decent rate of
On Jan 2, 2009, at 8:35 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote:
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of
U.S.
In Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America
-Original Message-
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Bostwick
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:49 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
On Jan 2, 2009, at 8
Surely Canada Australia are both far less densely populated than the
United States?
Regards,
Wayne Eddy
The US is far less densely populated than any other developed country, its
air and water suppliers are far less polluted than 40 years ago, and
racism
has fallen to the point where
On 05/01/2009, at 6:22 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote:
Surely Canada Australia are both far less densely populated than the
United States?
He said developed country. The former of those you mentioned is a
developed southern border, and the latter, a developed coastline...
Charlie.
(Pedantic for
Dan M. wrote:
As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.
In Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America
'Disintegrates' in 2010
I read this a few weeks ago and got a good chuckle out of it. It shows
than Americans aren't the only ones who can be
Right. As everyone knows, Mexico is a great power that is poised to
take over the entire Southern tier of the United States. And those
damned Canadians have been quietly biding their time since the
American revolution, lying in wait for just the right moment to
arrive. And the European Union is so
David Land wrote:
Right. As everyone knows, Mexico is a great power that is poised to
take over the entire Southern tier of the United States. And those
damned Canadians have been quietly biding their time since the
American revolution, lying in wait for just the right moment to
arrive. And
Alberto
Clearly, the only solution is for the US to mount a massive attack on
all the countries listed in the article at once.
It's surprising that not a single piece of the future-former-USA went
to Israel. Those conspiracy theorists are getting unimaginative.
Sheesh, don't you
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.In
Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America 'Disintegrates'
in 2010
Excerpt:
He based the forecast on classified data
Original Message:
-
From: Nick Arnett narn...@mccmedia.com
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:17:07 -0800
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Scouted: U.S. to collapse in next two years?
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
As if Things
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