[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Maybe an option could be to get "a" developer and promise to train in ColdfusionOn 13/05/06, Ryan Sabir < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So does that answer your question, Ryan?   Haha, well yes in a roundabout way :)   In response to some of the feedback I've been getting, I've removed the p

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

HA!ok, who has their passport? its time to move!On 5/16/06, M@ Bourke <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: http://www.forta.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/5/16/Looking-For-30-ColdFusion-Developers-In-Charlotte-and-Atlanta A company is putting on 30 CF developersexpect the job to developer ratio to widen even m

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

http://www.forta.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/5/16/Looking-For-30-ColdFusion-Developers-In-Charlotte-and-Atlanta A company is putting on 30 CF developersexpect the job to developer ratio to widen even more lolM@ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

To be honest it wasn't a CF job but all I did was apply for a Java job in the CBD from Seek. When I went in they told who the job was with.   They were the only people to get back to me and I was in hurry being unemployed and all. There was not a lot of CF work going at the time either that I would

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Wow, ok - that is very interesting...as a developer I would have never have thought to actualy go to an agency to look for CF work. Do these agencys actualy go and head hunt for you or do they just pull from their lists of contacts? L.On 5/13/06, Shane Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The company

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

The company I work for now has no choice but to go through agencies. If they put their name on the ad they get too many responses and takes too long to find a person for the position. I must say it was the first good experience I have had through an agency though. They must have a good relationship

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

I think this comes from the lack of people available now, I would consider paying 85-90 for a senior programmer, but through an agency? Tough call. They would have to be very special. In my opinion I think agencies should be given a wide berth from the candidate and the company perspectives. They

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

> So does that answer your question, Ryan?   Haha, well yes in a roundabout way :)   In response to some of the feedback I've been getting, I've removed the pay scale from the ad. Also, have reworded some of the requirements. We did this a few days ago but still haven't had any responses.

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

So does that answer your question, Ryan? CheersMike KearWindsor, NSW, AustraliaCertified Advanced ColdFusion DeveloperAFP Webworkshttp://afpwebworks.comColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

On 5/9/06, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: all this cfscript talk...can I just have a step debugger...and breakpointsand watches pretty please?   I'm with you there 100%!  --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to th

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

I should have been more specific..ECMA compliant "syntactically".So - I think we are on the same page.I actually don't really go in for the compliance at that "object" level (as not all environments would be able to support all the same objects).  If they did - we would only need one language!

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Hey Gary I have no experience writing language parsers so I could be way off the mark here, but with all due respect I think ECMA compliance is not just a matter of making something that exists "standard" or standards compliant. "A conforming implementation of ECMAScript must provide and support

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

>That way you could pick>languages like you pick underwear (hopefully one for each day of the>week).Now now Mark, don't you know ya can wear underwear 4 times before washing, frontwards, backwards, inside-out frontwards, inside-out backwards. M@Who can't quite remember what song/thing that comes fr

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Agreed. One of the problems with CFSCRIPT is that it is not ECMAScript compliant. When switching between JavaScript and CFSCRIPT, it can often get confusing - especially when you are dealing with conditions. I imagine this will be the same case with developers who shift between AS3 and CFSCRIPT.

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

That is an unreasonable comment, Mark.We aren't asking for something "new" to be added - we are just asking for something that already (almost) exists to be made "standard".MM introduced CFSCRIPT in the first place (maybe it was because someone asked for it - I dont know) - but they should now SUPP

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

You can do (almost) anything.NET, so in the same vein, if they do make java bytecode compilers for other languanges, I think they could wire those in just fine. Support wise, the API documentation for different languages could be auto generated... I'm sure javadoc would make short work out of

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

> It might be better get Adobe to update the cfscript tag to include > lang="ecmascript" that way it opens to door to lang="java" or whatever > your favourite language that has a java compiler for it. Thus by > default lang="cfscript" and then you're open to mix and match > scripting languages to

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

all this cfscript talk... can I just have a step debugger...and breakpointsand watches pretty please? On 5/9/06, Gary Menzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Damn good suggestion. > > I had previously suggested the idea of having another CFSETTING attribute > (something like "lang") to set it a

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Damn good suggestion.I had previously suggested the idea of having another CFSETTING attribute (something like "lang") to set it as a default for CFSCRIPT.There are dozens of ways they COULD implement it and not BREAK previous versions. GaryOn 5/9/06, Chris Velevitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 5

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

On 5/9/06, Mark Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - ECMA compliance will break existing cfscript & MM/Adobe won't break > backward compatibility in CF. It might be better get Adobe to update the cfscript tag to include lang="ecmascript" that way it opens to door to lang="java" or whatever your

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

On 5/9/06, Mark Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > People often forget that CF is geared towards entry level web > development - "make pdf's and reports in 5 minutes" is the sweet spot > for CF - not proper OO, or more elegant/advanced language features. Not really, ASP is the same overall whe

[cfaussie] ECMA and script (was Re: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?)

An easy solution to that would be to have or maybe even ? > - ECMA compliance will break existing cfscript & MM/Adobe won't break > backward compatibility in CF. > -- Haikal Saadh, Applications Programmer Teaching and Learning Support Services K405, Queensland University of Technology, Kelv

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

They can retain the GT/LT for backwards compatibility.And, adding new or alternative operators to a parser IS easy - if you have written the parser correctly (I've built enough of them in the past to know this). Yes, fully ECMA compliant, and fully backwards compatible would be a BIG ask.But - if w

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Hey Gary - ECMA compliance will break existing cfscript & MM/Adobe won't break backward compatibility in CF. - I doubt very much whether writing/implementing a language/syntax and all the stuff that goes with it could ever be called an easy thing to do. Maybe your definition of easy is a little

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

version 8. Hopefully it> will do> this for me or similar. >> Regards> Dale Fraser>>>>> -Original Message-> From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: cfaussie@googlegroups.com]> On Behalf> Of Haikal Saadh> Sent: Tuesday, 9 May 2006 09:47 AM>

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Dale Fraser > > > > > -Original Message- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf > Of Haikal Saadh > Sent: Tuesday, 9 May 2006 09:47 AM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? >

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

> I also think that break points are an extremely long shot. awww... Mark, that's mean! I can dream, can't I? at least your beanie isn't worried forbeing your next meal... BTW, they *have* been looking into debugging hooks, it's just not easy to implement at the moment. one of those decisio

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Tuesday, 9 May 2006 10:24 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?   The last time there was the whole cfscript debate we found the majority more often

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Most customers wouldn't know what's good for them if they got run over a B-double full of it :D /Philosophy seems to work for 37 Signals... Joel Cass wrote: *snip* > "We should all be using .net because our customers want it"). *snip* --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

The last time there was the whole cfscript debate we found the majority more often used the tags then scripting corfields breeze thingo had a poll that showed this.hence the M in the CFMSome people want CFM to be so much like other languages that they could simply use those other languages, Person

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

from doing that is version 8. Hopefully it will do > this for me or similar. > > Regards > Dale Fraser > > > > > -Original Message- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Haikal Saadh > Sent: Tuesday, 9 May 2006 09:4

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

s.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Haikal Saadh Sent: Tuesday, 9 May 2006 9:47 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? I've actually fantasied taking that 10%, wrapping in functions, and injecting in on startup to web-inf.componen

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? I've actually fantasied taking that 10%, wrapping in functions, and injecting in on startup to web-inf.component. Or extend web-inf.component, and include those methods, and have all my code extend the new and imp

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

I've actually fantasied taking that 10%, wrapping in functions, and injecting in on startup to web-inf.component. Or extend web-inf.component, and include those methods, and have all my code extend the new and improved component. Has anyone done this yet? If not, why? Dale Fraser wrote: > I'd

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

On 5/8/06, M@ Bourke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: now if pricing is simply the only reason for changeing why not php or 1 of the many other free languages over .net? you already said they are using windoze, so no use me saying cf on linux may be cheaper then .net on windoze :S   When you consider

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

On the subject of acronyms: CLAP - Coldfusion, Linux, Apache, PostgreSQL - A combination that works well for me. Be careful communicating this acronym to management if english is not your first language :) Vorn. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message b

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

6:17 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? We need a language that is not only quick and easy to develop in, but also easy to debug and maintain long term. agreed! http://www.techfeed.net/blog/index.cfm/2006/3/28/PHP-Debug

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

ssage- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Monday, 8 May 2006 16:17 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? > We need a language that is not only quick and easy to develop in, but

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

ges. > > > Regards > Dale Fraser > > > > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of M@ Bourke > Sent: Monday, 8 May 2006 14:53 PM > > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: [cfaussie] Re

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

> *nix TOC oops. I meant (unix-based) TCO (total Cost of ownership) ...I'm lysDexic On 5/8/06, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > cf on linux may be cheaper then .net on windoze > > especially when you consider total cost of ownership what with > Microsoft Licencing. Check it out- it

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

> cf on linux may be cheaper then .net on windoze especially when you consider total cost of ownership what with Microsoft Licencing. Check it out- it ain't cheap. they lock you in with (virtually) free dev tools (anyone still got their freebie VS2005? mine's unloved...) and then sting you with t

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

: Non CF people looking at code like Regards Dale Fraser From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Monday, 8 May 2006 14:53 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?   >I hat

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

>I hate to say it but my little team hear, may have to jump to .NET soon>but I don't want to make that decesion. But if the clients want it we>do it.Hi Jeremyvery funny cfdump joke now if pricing is simply the only reason for changeing why not php or 1 of the many other free languages over .net? yo

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Wow, what a full on thread. Is it my turn yet. I've been programming for 6 years now. And I wouldn't count myself as senior. Although I'm starting to get the grey hair and my seeing is getting worse. [EMAIL PROTECTED] man that was a full on read and I was sucked in like a bad hooker. Bottom lin

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19054696%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.htmlbit better news for employers M@ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

You can track them out here, apparently. http://www.frappr.com/cfdevelopers Who's up for CF dev tagging expedition? > > > On 5/4/06, *Ryan Sabir* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote: > > > Where are all the good CF developers these days? > > -- Haikal Saadh, Appl

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

On 5/4/06, Ryan Sabir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:   Where are all the good CF developers these days?   I wouldn't say I am a great CF developer but I did have experience leading a small team in a small web/hosting shop. I got a good opportunity with a big company (well all know) doing J2EE work.

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

om: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Barry Beattie > Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 16:48 PM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? > > > what's WISC? > > wot: > "Windows&

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

ussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? what's WISC? wot: "Windows"... oh forget it...that ol' hack... any good anacronyms that starts with A (y'know, as in A for apple)? On 5/5/06, Dale Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

t; > > > -Original Message- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Dale Fraser > Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 16:31 PM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? > > > Ok, I'

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

I much prefer WISC Regards Dale Fraser -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dale Fraser Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 16:31 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? Ok, I'll

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

5 May 2006 16:16 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? > After the laughter subsides I get a pretty standard response that > CF is on its way out, everyones learning .NET and/or LAMP based > development these days. You would

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

ooglegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? > After the laughter subsides I get a pretty standard response that > CF is on its way out, everyones learning .NET and/or LAMP based > development these days. You would have got the same response 5 years

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

> After the laughter subsides I get a pretty standard response that > CF is on its way out, everyones learning .NET and/or LAMP based > development these days. You would have got the same response 5 years ago, and yet... > Its interesting what you hear when you leave Adobe's Reality > Dis

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

; > > -Original Message- > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Mandel > > Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 1:44 PM > > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? > &

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

--From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On BehalfOf Ryan SabirSent: Friday, 5 May 2006 14:40 PMTo: 'cfaussie@googlegroups.com'Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? Just on this...Has anyone tried telling a group of non-ColdFusion types t

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

s.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sabir Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 14:40 PM To: 'cfaussie@googlegroups.com' Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? Just on this... Has anyone tried telling a group of non-ColdFusion types that you are looking for a ColdF

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

What are the positions you are trying to fill Robbin? -Original Message-From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Robin HilliardSent: Friday, May 05, 2006 1:20 PMTo: cfaussie@googlegroups.comSubject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

ECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Mandel > Sent: Friday, 5 May 2006 1:44 PM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? > > > Robin, > > I had no idea you had positions in melbourne? > > There doesn't seem to be a hu

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

I meant Robin :) -Original Message-From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Robin HilliardSent: Friday, May 05, 2006 1:20 PMTo: cfaussie@googlegroups.comSubject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?On 04/05/2006, at 5:00 PM

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

> > We're just seeing demand exceed supply at the moment - if you believe in > market forces and regression to the mean this should sort itself out soon. > how? like this?: "lets not do this next project in ColdFusion - we can't get (and keep) enough CF developers" and the number of CF projects

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Robin, I had no idea you had positions in melbourne? There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of opportunity in Melbourne as opposed to other cities (Sydney, Brisbane) for CF positions. When I was looking for a new job ~ 2-4 months ago, I was scrounging to find CF development positions. It was ac

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

On 04/05/2006, at 5:00 PM, Ryan Sabir wrote:Where are all the good CF developers these days?  From what I can tell, they're happily employed as CF developers...We have several Sydney positions (including yours) and two in Melbourne I can't fill at present.  What we're experiencing is a lack of expe

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Dale Wrote>The jobs went to India>The dot com companies closed>So there should be more people than jobs.No no no, what I meant was the dot com companies closed less people stuck around and less people enrolled in IT jobs were supposedly all going to India so less people enrolled in ITthen companies

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

CTED] On Behalf Of Joel CassSent: Friday, 5 May 2006 9:23 AMTo: cfaussie@googlegroups.comSubject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? As someone with about 8 years experience and no degree, I find these ads uninteresting and probably representative of a high

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

killed.>>>> You teach them> They teach themselves>>>> They don't exactly walk out of uni with any knowledge of CF, but this goes > for lots of languages. RMIT teach C, C++, Java, PHP>>>> Regards>> Dale Fraser>>>>>  _

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

ps.comSubject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? Wow,   So   The jobs went to India The dot com companies closed   So there should be more people than jobs.   I actually think   The CF people have re skilled in something else lik

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

> > > They don't exactly walk out of uni with any knowledge of CF, but this goes > for lots of languages. RMIT teach C, C++, Java, PHP > > > > Regards > > Dale Fraser > > > > > ____________________ > > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

  From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Thursday, 4 May 2006 8:38 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?   >Where are all the good CF developers these days? Well it

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Hi RyanJust read your job ad and have some *friendly* advice, if you want more applications I'd strongly think over the following in the ad"Senior"Someone might be brilliant but not consider them self experienced enough to be senior "minimum of 4 to 5 years experience in professional new media agen

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

>Where are all the good CF developers these days?Well it all started back  in Nineteen-dickety-two. We had to say "dickety" because the Kaiser had stolen the wold "twenty". I chased that rascal to get it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles. what happened was everyone seemed to think computers

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

 im here -Original Message-From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Dale FraserSent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:18 PMTo: cfaussie@googlegroups.comSubject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? It’s a problem a big

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

e FraserSent: Thursday, 4 May 2006 5:18 PMTo: cfaussie@googlegroups.comSubject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? It’s a problem a big problem   Ben Forta calls this Coldfusion Thriving.   http://www.forta.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/5/2/ColdFusion-Thriving-In-Sa

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

: Thursday, 4 May 2006 17:03 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?   Management... all the good ones have retired to management to die of a natural but cost effective death heh.   On 5/4/06, Ryan Sabir <[EMAIL PROTEC

[cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone?

Management... all the good ones have retired to management to die of a natural but cost effective death heh.   On 5/4/06, Ryan Sabir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Maybe this should be posted in CFJOBS, but that place is so deserted you can hear the tumbleweeds going past.   Where are all the good CF