Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] proposition de politique

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I’ve also the same opinion, in general NIRs are not needed, but I have the 
feeling that this may be beyond the scope of AfriNIC.

 

What happen if a country law mandate it? Then AfriNIC members of that country 
will be mandated by law to go via the NIR.

 

Of course, you can “strongly discourage” it by means of pieces:
AfriNIC bylaws disallowing NIRs.
There is no mention of NIR in the policy manual, I just looked at it, so if you 
can reinforce that with a policy proposal that specifically modify the existing 
definition of LIR.
 

Actual text:

 

2.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)

A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR 
and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. 
Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of 
AFRINIC.

 

Proposed text:

 

2.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)

A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR 
and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. 
Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of 
AFRINIC and are the only way to allocate resources within the AfriNIC service 
region.

 


Regards,

Jordi

 

 

De: Mark Elkins 
Organización: Posix Systems
Responder a: 
Fecha: martes, 8 de mayo de 2018, 12:16
Para: AfriNIC Resource Policy , 

Asunto: Re: [rpd] proposition de politique

 

Totally agree with you. I believe that NIRs would potentially break (harm) the 
whole bottom-up approach. They could also have different policies and it also 
potentially breaks ISP's that have cross-border activities. I like it that 
AfriNIC currently has no NIRs.

 

On 08/05/2018 13:23, Kossi Amessinou wrote:

Bonsoir à tous, 

Il apparaît urgent pour notre communauté de veiller à ce que le principe de la 
mise en place des NIR par pays soit supprimé. Il faut retenir comme principe le 
modèle LIR et End User pour notre région (RIR). Il faut empêcher les 
gouvernements et les régulateurs d'avoir une action prépondérante sur internet 
en les décourageant de mettre en place des NIR. Même si des lois sont pris dans 
des pays, la communauté doit rester plus forte pour que internet reste un bien 
public international inaliénable. 

En conclusion, dans notre région, je recommande que nous ayons un RIR avec  des 
LIR et des End User. Il faut supprimer les NIR. Merci.
 

-- 

AMESSINOU Kossi
Ingénieur TIC | ICT Engineer
Contact personnel: 00229 95 19 67 02
Boîte Postale: 01BP7304 Cotonou - Bénin
Emails: kossi.amessi...@fgi.bj
kamessi...@developpement.gouv.bj
amessinouko...@gmail.com
skype: amessinou | @amessinou | @bigf
http://www.facebook.com/amessinoukossi | 
www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou
Que Dieu vous bénisse | Dans le silence, Dieu nous parle! Ma parole est mon 
pouvoir.




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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] proposition de politique

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

When I said bylaws, I was actually thinking in membership agreement, but 
actually either way (or both) may work.


Regards,

Jordi

 

 

De: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ 
Fecha: martes, 8 de mayo de 2018, 12:26
Para: AfriNIC Resource Policy , 

Asunto: Re: [rpd] proposition de politique

 

I’ve also the same opinion, in general NIRs are not needed, but I have the 
feeling that this may be beyond the scope of AfriNIC.

 

What happen if a country law mandate it? Then AfriNIC members of that country 
will be mandated by law to go via the NIR.

 

Of course, you can “strongly discourage” it by means of pieces:

1)  AfriNIC bylaws disallowing NIRs.

2)  There is no mention of NIR in the policy manual, I just looked at it, 
so if you can reinforce that with a policy proposal that specifically modify 
the existing definition of LIR.

 

Actual text:

 

2.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)

A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR 
and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. 
Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of 
AFRINIC.

 

Proposed text:

 

2.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)

A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR 
and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. 
Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of 
AFRINIC and are the only way to allocate resources within the AfriNIC service 
region.

 


Regards,

Jordi

 

 

De: Mark Elkins 
Organización: Posix Systems
Responder a: 
Fecha: martes, 8 de mayo de 2018, 12:16
Para: AfriNIC Resource Policy , 

Asunto: Re: [rpd] proposition de politique

 

Totally agree with you. I believe that NIRs would potentially break (harm) the 
whole bottom-up approach. They could also have different policies and it also 
potentially breaks ISP's that have cross-border activities. I like it that 
AfriNIC currently has no NIRs.

 

On 08/05/2018 13:23, Kossi Amessinou wrote:

Bonsoir à tous, 

Il apparaît urgent pour notre communauté de veiller à ce que le principe de la 
mise en place des NIR par pays soit supprimé. Il faut retenir comme principe le 
modèle LIR et End User pour notre région (RIR). Il faut empêcher les 
gouvernements et les régulateurs d'avoir une action prépondérante sur internet 
en les décourageant de mettre en place des NIR. Même si des lois sont pris dans 
des pays, la communauté doit rester plus forte pour que internet reste un bien 
public international inaliénable. 

En conclusion, dans notre région, je recommande que nous ayons un RIR avec  des 
LIR et des End User. Il faut supprimer les NIR. Merci.
 

-- 

AMESSINOU Kossi
Ingénieur TIC | ICT Engineer
Contact personnel: 00229 95 19 67 02
Boîte Postale: 01BP7304 Cotonou - Bénin
Emails: kossi.amessi...@fgi.bj
kamessi...@developpement.gouv.bj
amessinouko...@gmail.com
skype: amessinou | @amessinou | @bigf
http://www.facebook.com/amessinoukossi | 
www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou
Que Dieu vous bénisse | Dans le silence, Dieu nous parle! Ma parole est mon 
pouvoir.





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m...@posix.co.za   Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I think Andrew is right.

 

I just found a short article that explains it:

 

https://www.gdprandbeyond.com/blog-post/data-privacy/gdpr-affect-non-european-companies/

 

If you don’t want to read all the article, this is the key:

 

“The short answer is: the regulation will affect firms both inside and outside 
of the EU. In fact, any company dealing with EU businesses’, residents’, or 
citizens’ data will have to comply with the GDPR.”

 

Even more than that, it affects any company that may hold data from EU 
citizens, and that includes IP addresses.

 

For example, if EU citizens are using a DNS resolver sitting in any AfriNIC 
country, then the logs with the IP addresses of the queries are subjected to 
the GDPR, if you make business out of those logs, and don’t anonymize them, you 
are subjected to fines of up to 4% of your annual turnover, up to a maximum of 
20 million euros.

 

In chats with EU lawyers, they basically told that there is a long road with 
this regulation in the courts, and ISPs need to be aware that this means that 
if their customers do “bad” things with EU citizens personal data, and they 
don’t react on those “abuse” cases, you may be at the end of the history, 
liable for that.


Regards,

Jordi

 

De: Andrew Alston 
Fecha: miércoles, 11 de abril de 2018, 12:15
Para: Owen DeLong 
CC: General , AFRINIC Board of Directors' List 

Asunto: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

 

Owen,

 

Firstly – AfriNIC does hold data on EU residents – that is without question – I 
know of a couple of cases of EU residents with their data held by AfriNIC 
without even thinking of it.

Secondly – irrespective of if they are signatories or not – if AfriNIC chooses 
to do any business with RIPE for example, they are doing business with an EU 
entity and can be prevented from doing so if they don’t comply is my 
understanding.

 

Irrespective of this – the AfriNIC board if they believe they do not need to 
comply in any way shape or form – needs to state that to this community and to 
its members and give reasons as to why not – at that point – the affected 
members can then make an informed decision as to their course of action should 
they choose one. But – AfriNIC still has an obligation to inform its community 
as to its standing in this regard and do so before the legislation becomes 
reality.

 

Please note clause 3.4.vii of the bylaws:

 

(vii) to disseminate among its members information on all matters affecting the 
Company and its members and to provide for and be a central channel of 
communication for the members of the Company and generally for the furtherance 
and promotion of their interests;

 

Andrew

 

From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com] 
Sent: 11 April 2018 09:08
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: General ; AFRINIC Board of Directors' List 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR
Importance: High

 

 




On Apr 10, 2018, at 22:42 , Andrew Alston  
wrote:

 

Hi AfriNIC Board,

 

Can this board please *urgently* inform this community as to what preparations 
they have made as regards to compliance with the General Data Protection 
Regulations passed by the European Commision and the board will be in a 
position to give this community a full and complete report as to their GDPR 
compliance status and what will be changing before the 25th of May to ensure 
that when the GDPR comes into force AfriNIC is compliant.

 

Is Mauritius signatory to some treaty making them subject to GDPR?

 


Considering that the regulation comes into force on the 25th of May 2018 – and 
AfriNIC is 100% holding data of EU Citizens, which makes them subject to the 
regulations irrespective of the fact that they are domiciled in Mauritius – 
this is an urgent and critical issue.  It has direct impact on the whois 
database, abuse contact information, handling of data submitted during 
application process and potentially even the proposed review policy, just to 
name a few things that I can think of off the top of my head – and cannot be 
ignored.  I would in fact have liked to have seen discussions by the board in 
the minutes that have been published about the GDPR long before now – 
considering the impact – but failing that – the question is now being asked.

 

It’s not about EU Citizens. It’s about EU Residents. (Common misconception 
about GDPR).

 

Further, unless your in a silly country that was dumb enough to sign a treaty 
extending EU’s legal reach into your sovereignty, such as the stupid congress 
of the united States, then you can offer the EU a nice big Italian sign 
language gesture regarding their GDPR and continue on with business as usual.

 

Owen

 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I don't think so. Meanwhile, previous Data Protection laws apply, at least 
that's what the Spanish Data Protection Agency say.

If you apply that (LOPD and LSSI laws in Spain) in conjunction to GDPR, you get 
what I told. So at least for Spanish citizens, this is clear.

Regards,
Jordi
 
 
-Mensaje original-
De: Mike Silber <silber.m...@gmail.com>
Fecha: martes, 17 de abril de 2018, 9:36
Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.pa...@consulintel.es>
CC: <ze...@auladin.com>, <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Asunto: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

EU citizens, EU residents, potentially even visitors to the EU (on anything 
more than a transitory basis).

Still waiting for DPAs to make specific rules.

In the absence of those specific rules - everything else is conjecture.

> On 16 Apr 2018, at 22:34, Jordi Palet Martinez via Community-Discuss 
<community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
> Even simpler than that. The registration of emails of EU citizens in this 
exploder or in the next AfriNIC meeting.
> 
> Emails are personal data.
> 
> 
>> El 16 abr 2018, a las 21:15, ze...@auladin.com escribió:
>> 
>> Hi Arsene,
>> 
>> The GDPR applies for data protection for all EU citizens.
>> 
>> If, for example an EU citizen is the  contact person for a range of IP
>> addresses provided by Afrinic, then Afrinic needs to ensure this data (
>> contact details of EU person) meet GDPR obligations, namely, that is has
>> taken measures to safeguard access to the data and that the data is kept
>> encrypted.
>> 
>> If it can prove those 2 processes, then it cannot be fined.
>> 
>> This is my understanding of the GDPR changes.
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Zeimm.
>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 10:39:35 +0200
>>> From: Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebag...@gmail.com>
>>> To: wafa DAHMANI <w...@ati.tn>
>>> Cc: S Moonesamy <sm+afri...@elandsys.com>, General Discussions of
>>>   AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR
>>> Message-ID:
>>>   <cabdxvwo+ocetzo0scqcp9dyqfd2fiyelr6gxkcku7ouac6m...@mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> My apologies if i am too alarmant on this or if i am misunderstanding 
this
>>> issue.
>>> 
>>> Please consider my message on this as a request from a community member 
to
>>> be assured that we are okay and have nothing to worry about.
>>>> From your message, Wafa, i hope i can be at peace with regards to 
Afrinic
>>> and the GDPR because it is that simple from your perspective.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Arsene
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
>>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
>>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*, *Mabingwa
>>> Forum
>>> <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
>>> Tel: +243 993810967
>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>>> 
>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>> 
<http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>> 
<http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>> & Mexico
>>> 
<http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - 
Blogger
>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
>>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC 
Fellow
>>> (
>>> Mauritius
>>> 
<http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)*
>>> - *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet
>>

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

In a recent presentation, 9.9.9.9, confirmed that they have taken the measures 
to fulfill with GDPR. I'm not sure about the others.

Obviously is something that each service provider, web site owner, etc., need 
to tackle in a case by case basis.

Regards,
Jordi
 
 
-Mensaje original-
De: S Moonesamy <sm+afri...@elandsys.com>
Fecha: martes, 17 de abril de 2018, 7:43
Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.pa...@consulintel.es>, 
<community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Asunto: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

Hi Jordi,
At 01:40 PM 16-04-2018, Jordi Palet Martinez via Community-Discuss wrote:
>And forgot to say that IP addresses are also personal data, so the 
>logs when visiting AfriNIC websites or the registration forms, etc., 
>have the same issue :-) DNS servers logs as well ... and so on ...

   PING 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1): 56 data bytes
   64 bytes from 1.1.1.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=61 time=1.592 ms

   PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8): 56 data bytes
   64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=0 ttl=59 time=37.581 ms

   PING 9.9.9.9 (9.9.9.9): 56 data bytes
   64 bytes from 9.9.9.9: icmp_seq=0 ttl=61 time=2.817 ms

Two of those DNS services are local.  It is not easy [1] to prove 
that there is a data protection issue.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

1. Please see the success rate for data protection cases. 





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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

[Jordi Palet Martinez via Community-Discuss]

Even simpler than that. The registration of emails of EU citizens in this 
exploder or in the next AfriNIC meeting.

Emails are personal data.


> El 16 abr 2018, a las 21:15, ze...@auladin.com escribió:
> 
> Hi Arsene,
> 
> The GDPR applies for data protection for all EU citizens.
> 
> If, for example an EU citizen is the  contact person for a range of IP
> addresses provided by Afrinic, then Afrinic needs to ensure this data (
> contact details of EU person) meet GDPR obligations, namely, that is has
> taken measures to safeguard access to the data and that the data is kept
> encrypted.
> 
> If it can prove those 2 processes, then it cannot be fined.
> 
> This is my understanding of the GDPR changes.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Zeimm.
> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 10:39:35 +0200
>> From: Ars?ne Tungali 
>> To: wafa DAHMANI 
>> Cc: S Moonesamy , General Discussions of
>>AFRINIC 
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My apologies if i am too alarmant on this or if i am misunderstanding this
>> issue.
>> 
>> Please consider my message on this as a request from a community member to
>> be assured that we are okay and have nothing to worry about.
>>> From your message, Wafa, i hope i can be at peace with regards to Afrinic
>> and the GDPR because it is that simple from your perspective.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Arsene
>> 
>> 
>> **Ars?ne Tungali* *
>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
>> *,
>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl *, *Mabingwa
>> Forum
>> *
>> Tel: +243 993810967
>> GPG: 523644A0
>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>> 
>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>> 
>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>> 
>> & Mexico
>> )
>> - AFRISIG 2016  - Blogger
>>  - ICANN's GNSO Council
>>  Member. AFRINIC Fellow
>> (
>> Mauritius
>> )*
>> - *IGFSA Member  - Internet Governance - Internet
>> Freedom.
>> 
>> Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
>> ) and (French
>> )
>> 
>> 2018-04-15 9:37 GMT+02:00 wafa DAHMANI :
>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> I think there are some misunderstandings of the issue
>>> By the way under which laws there will be fines imposed on AFRINIC after
>>> the 25th  does AFRINIC have subsidiary company in EU area ??
>>> I think things are more simplier for AFRINIC
>>> AFRINIC has just to declare that as company is fully respecting  data
>>> privacy and should appoint a senior responsible for assuring that all
>>> mecanisms implemebted treating personal
>>> data comply with data privacy issues for example AFRINIC should
>>> ISO27001
>>> certified and had a Security Officer (which is mandatory to be ISO27001
>>> certified).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> Wafa
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *De: *"Ars?ne Tungali" 
>>> *?: *"Mike Silber" 
>>> *Cc: *"S Moonesamy" ,
>>> community-discuss@afrinic.net
>>> *Envoy?: *Samedi 14 Avril 2018 11:18:22
>>> *Objet: *Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 14, 2018, at 7:45 AM, Mike Silber  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My expectation is that the org confirms that is has performed a thorough
>>> evaluation and believe any risks have been mitigated.
>>> 
>>> Exactly!
>>> 
>>> If fines are to be imposed on AFRINIC (past May 25th) simply because
>>> there
>>> was less care taken upfront in dealing with this issue, then it will be
>>> a
>>> total mess.
>>> 
>>> AFRINIC members need to look closely at this since they might be the
>>> ones
>>> paying!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 at 00:18, S Moonesamy 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Arsene,
 At 07:48 AM 13-04-2018, Arsene Tungali wrote:
> Reading this thread, I am still awaiting an official statement from
> the Board telling us that AFRINIC is safe and at this stage is in
> 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

[Jordi Palet Martinez via Community-Discuss]

And forgot to say that IP addresses are also personal data, so the logs when 
visiting AfriNIC websites or the registration forms, etc., have the same issue 
:-) DNS servers logs as well ... and so on ...


> El 16 abr 2018, a las 22:34, Jordi Palet Martinez via Community-Discuss 
> <community-discuss@afrinic.net> escribió:
> 
> Even simpler than that. The registration of emails of EU citizens in this 
> exploder or in the next AfriNIC meeting.
> 
> Emails are personal data.
> 
> 
>> El 16 abr 2018, a las 21:15, ze...@auladin.com escribió:
>> 
>> Hi Arsene,
>> 
>> The GDPR applies for data protection for all EU citizens.
>> 
>> If, for example an EU citizen is the  contact person for a range of IP
>> addresses provided by Afrinic, then Afrinic needs to ensure this data (
>> contact details of EU person) meet GDPR obligations, namely, that is has
>> taken measures to safeguard access to the data and that the data is kept
>> encrypted.
>> 
>> If it can prove those 2 processes, then it cannot be fined.
>> 
>> This is my understanding of the GDPR changes.
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Zeimm.
>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 10:39:35 +0200
>>> From: Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebag...@gmail.com>
>>> To: wafa DAHMANI <w...@ati.tn>
>>> Cc: S Moonesamy <sm+afri...@elandsys.com>, General Discussions of
>>>   AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR
>>> Message-ID:
>>>   <cabdxvwo+ocetzo0scqcp9dyqfd2fiyelr6gxkcku7ouac6m...@mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> My apologies if i am too alarmant on this or if i am misunderstanding this
>>> issue.
>>> 
>>> Please consider my message on this as a request from a community member to
>>> be assured that we are okay and have nothing to worry about.
>>>> From your message, Wafa, i hope i can be at peace with regards to Afrinic
>>> and the GDPR because it is that simple from your perspective.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Arsene
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
>>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
>>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*, *Mabingwa
>>> Forum
>>> <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
>>> Tel: +243 993810967
>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>>> 
>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>> & Mexico
>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
>>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC Fellow
>>> (
>>> Mauritius
>>> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)*
>>> - *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet
>>> Freedom.
>>> 
>>> Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
>>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
>>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>> 
>>> 2018-04-15 9:37 GMT+02:00 wafa DAHMANI <w...@ati.tn>:
>>> 
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> 
>>>> I think there are some misunderstandings of the issue
>>>> By the way under which laws there will be fines imposed on AFRINIC after
>>>> the 25th  does AFRINIC have subsidiary company in EU area ??
>>>> I think things are more simplier for AFRINIC
>>>> AFRINIC has just to declare that as company is fully respecting  data
>>>> privacy and should appoint a senior responsible for assuring that all
>>>> mecanisms implemebted treating personal
>>>> data comply 

[Community-Discuss] warning/question about hotel reservation for the next AfriNIC 29 meeting is it fake ?

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi all,

I've reserved a room at the first suggested hotel (Hotel Diar Lemdina), which 
I think is the AfriNIC venue, on October 2nd.

I've got the credit card payment confirmation charge in a matter of seconds 
(company clictopay.com.tn).

However NEVER got the room reservation confirmation from the hotel.

I've tried to contact the hotel and even the clictopay company, by email 
(several times, using even different emails), web forms, facebook, etc., etc. 
Tried to use also skype to call them, and skype said that number is blocked ...

No reply at all.

So, I'm wondering if this is a serious venue, or we need to fix something else, 
because I don't think is acceptable not getting a confirmation in a matter of 
hours and no responses at all.

Is it a fake web site and I need to contact the police for a reimbursement or 
what?

Has somebody else got a confirmation from the hotel?

Really worried about this!

Regards,
Jordi
 
 



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Re: [Community-Discuss] How the RIPE NCC Will Be Validating abuse-c

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Jean-Robert,

I guess the people interested can provide inputs to my related policy proposal:

https://www.afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development/policy-proposals/2467-abuse-contact-policy-update

Of course, use the RDP list please.

https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

Regards,
Jordi
 
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Jean-Robert Hountomey 
Fecha: miércoles, 10 de octubre de 2018, 13:54
Para: 
Asunto: [Community-Discuss] How the RIPE NCC Will Be Validating abuse-c

Hello AfriNIC and Community,

We read this article on the RIPE NCC W3 (1).

Is there any plan within the AfriNIC community?

Thank you.

Regards.

Jean-Robert.

(1).

https://labs.ripe.net/Members/angela_dallara/how-we-will-be-validating-abuse-c



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Inter-RIR Resource Transfers v3?

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Chittesh,

Yes, of course.

Need to find some time to read minutes, look at the videos, and of course, if 
you have any suggestions on that, please, do those in the policy mailing list.

I will be responding to any comments and in some days/weeks, make an 
alternative proposal.

Thanks!

Regards,
Jordi
 
 

-Mensaje original-
De: Chittesh Sham 
Fecha: miércoles, 12 de diciembre de 2018, 18:01
Para: 
CC: 
Asunto: [Community-Discuss] Inter-RIR Resource Transfers v3?

Hi Jordi,

Will you be updating your Inter-RIR Resource Transfers v2 proposal based 
on feedback from last meeting in Hammamet?

Cheers,
Chittesh Sham

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Let’s make it generic, so it is easier to understand for everyone. Note that 
I’m not a lawyer, but law is generally very logic. So:

 
In law, you can’t hide documents that are already public.
 
Moreover, an organization (membership or any other type), can’t have rules that 
go *against* the law.
 
An NDA can’t protect public documents.
 
Organization bylaws or rules can’t act against laws or reduce rights that are 
provided by law. If a rule is against law, it can be absolutelly ignored. The 
rest of the rules are still in place.
 

So, a board, can *NEVER* hide, delay or ask its members to not provide a 
document to the overall membership, if this document is already public. A board 
can’t consequently punish members of the board, because they don’t wait for the 
board decision to publish a *public* document among the membership.

 

In fact, it will be on the other way around: Board members that don’t release 
ASAP, a public document related to the membership/organization, may be in 
fault, acting against the interest of the organization and members.


Regards,

Jordi

 

 

 

El 31/5/19 13:34, "Alan Levin"  escribió:

 

Badru,

 

On Fri, 31 May 2019 at 13:21, Badru Ntege  wrote:

>From what I see here 

 A collective and binding decision was made by board to release information at 
an appropriate time.  That decision would have been bidding to all board 
members as per procedure.

 

Clearly this was a poor decision 

 

One or two members went ahead to release that information outside the board 
agreed process.  

 

A seriously flawed Board process!  

 

Whether or not that information was already publicly available.   The intent of 
the members that released the information was in response to community asking 
for the board to release the information. 

The proper way for that information to be released would have been through the 
approved board process.

The members in question that released information did it in their capacity as 
board members and would have received that information under that capacity.

Every action has consequences and as adults we make decisions having considered 
the consequences one would assume.

I urge us all to be rational.  I somehow believe you all believe you are acting 
in the best interest of our organisations AfriNIC. 

 

We are being rational Badru, we are all most disappointed at the Board 
decisions here which have seriously destabilised the already flailing RIR! This 
was a very poor decision and "the cherry on top" 

 

But blowing a procedural issue like this to this level and even trying to 
relate or connect it to a personal decision of an employee to resign is 
reaching and really not in the spirit of the entire community or our 
organisations.

Lets give the people we elected the respect they deserve, advise them when they 
need the guidance and allow them to do the job.

 

Please keep in mind that we DID NOT elect these people... some of us elected 
some of these people, but they were largely elected on block or by default... 

 

We cannot all be board members at the same time so we choose a few from the 
wide community to do that role.

 

Yes, we want a better board - just one that is functiuonal - and a better 
process... 

 

Sincerely

 

Alan 

 

 

 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Benjamin,

 

Let me explain how I see this from my perspective.

 
I’ve not spoken with anyone, apart from the public emails in the list, about my 
policy proposals. I usually don’t do. They come from my understanding of what 
is good for the community.
I even don’t ask support in private to anyone. I always do in the list only.
So I doubt my policy is in any way related to the personal interest of anyone 
(person or institution), and if this is the case, I’m not aware of that.
I would prefer you call me “citizen of the world”, is how I see my self. I was 
born in Barcelona, but I’m not nationalist or anything like that. One of my 
life goals is to help everyone, regardless of its citizenship or residence, 
contributing to the community as much as I can.
Because when I was born, we had a dictatorial regime in Spain, it was forbidden 
to teach Catalonian in the school or even to speak it in public. That’s 
probably the reason I learnt to have my own view on everything and not be 
influenced by anyone.
For that same reason, I’m happy to engage with everybody in discussing any of 
my ideas (for the sake of this conversation, policy proposals), but in an 
educated way, and far away from false accusations, ad hominems, or anything 
similar. As much as I’m harashed, as much I will keep going with my views at 
least while I’ve a drop of blood in my body, and I plan to live at least 100 
years more.
 

Now, I will suggest the chairs, and the responsibles of this meeting, that in 
order to keep the order and code of conduct, as it seems that you have done 
this several times, *unlesss you probe what you’re saying*, you aren’t allowed 
to keep participating for a few weeks or months, so we can have peace and a 
civilized meeting.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 19/6/19 1:50, "Benjamin Ledoh"  escribió:

 

Dear Community,

I have arrived in Kampala this yesterday and the intelligence I have gathered 
since then is so alarming that I have decided to send this email to call on my 
fellow Nigerians (not all) and brother Ugandans  (not all) conscience to put 
Africa first. To put the interest of this community first so that we keep our 
Internet Resources for the development of Africa and for the future generation. 

>From the intelligence I have gathered, two groups are working tirelessly to 
>hijack AFRINIC resources. The obvious consequences are the close down of 
>AFRINIC and the appropriation of the Internet Resources of our region. If 
>these happen, it implies that whenever an organization in Africa needs IPv4, 
>IPv6 or ASN, it has to get it in the black markets where those resources would 
>be very expensive perhaps not affordable too or to go to RIPE or ARIN. The two 
>groups are, on one side, white South African led by Mr. Andrew Alston of 
>Liquid Telecom with their allies Mark Elkins and Owen Delong, and on the other 
>side, Lu with his Foundation from China.

WHAT ARE ISSUES AT HAND?

The British/South Africa Mark Elkins, the candidate of election, wants to 
become the co-chair of PDWG. His mission as co-chair is to push for the policy 
“IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers (Comprehensive Scope)” proposed by Spanish 
or Latino Jordi Palet Martinez. The issue with this policy is clear. There is 
no more IPv4 in the other registry, only AFRINIC has IPv4 in its pool. The 
policy of Jordy has the hidden agenda is to enable the South African (not all 
of them) mafia to ransack the AFRINIC. It is not a secret that Mark Elkins was 
one of those who oppose the creation of AFRINIC. No wonder why his acolyte Owen 
Delong always defends him even if his is blatantly wrong. What is interesting 
yesterday was Owen with the help of some Ugandans he recruited some boys and 
girls to come and vote for Mark Elkins and to support of oppose policies. They 
were brought by Owen himself who was instructing the AFRINIC registration desk 
in Sheraton Hotel to register them. When they were asked about what they are 
coming to do, they said they are coming to vote for IPv4. I personally 
witnessed this. 

For my own brothers Nigerians, three of them were sponsored by Lu Heng and his 
foundation for the post of the co-chair of PDWG. Moreover, the Chinese Lu Heng 
and his foundation have brought 30 participants or so through the coordination 
of Daniel Yakmut. Larus Cloud Service, the mother organization of Larus 
Foundation, has been allocated IPv4 address from AFRINIC. The fact is, Lurus 
Cloud is not using those IPv4 addresses located to him for the purpose of which 
the got them. Moreover, the reasons provided when he applied for those 
resources were lies. The instruction given to those sponsored are to 
1 - to support the “IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers (Comprehensive Scope)” by 
Jordi Palet Martinez because they want to legalize their wrongdoing with the 
resources taken from AFRINIC.
2 - to oppose the “Internet Number Resources review by AFRINIC” by Arnaud 
Amelina and CO because this policy will expose 

Re: [Community-Discuss] FW: Everyone... meet Benjamin

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Agree with Warwick.

Any member of an organization or community is free to speak.

What is not acceptable is that one person making accusations to other community 
members, which said is in the meeting (so he can go to the mic), is not able to 
provide his real identity and then is discovered that it is another person, and 
is not expelled according to the code of conduct.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 19/6/19 16:32, "Warwick Duncan"  escribió:

Hi Badru

On 2019/06/19 15:15, Badru Ntege wrote:
> Alan Levin wrote  “I really hope AfriNIC is shut down at this point”
[..]
> However I would like to ask the Board to invoke its right to expel
> members who are working against the interest of the organization and the
> message above by Alan Levin is very clear. 

As much as I disagree with Alan's statement, I also disagree with yours.
 The organisation is not sacrosanct, and it should not be expelling
member who agree with the official line.  What is sacrosanct, as I
understand the Afrinic mandate, is the benefit of the region.  To
emphasise the point: the region, not the organisation.

> I have heard the word “Cabal” in the corridors and only now has penny
> dropped.  I can now put into context the emails I have been reading from
> you sir and all related parties.

Vague mentions of conspiracies are not helpful.  If you have evidence of
such a cabal, please provide it.  If not, it's just hearsay and rumour.

Regards
Warwickc

> *From: *Alan Levin 
> *Date: *Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 3:50 PM
> *To: *Andrew Alston 
> *Cc: *General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] FW: Everyone... meet Benjamin
> 
>  
> 
> I really hope AfriNIC is shut down at this point
> 
> 
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 

-- 
Warwick Duncan
Managing Director
Neuos (Pty) Ltd

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[Community-Discuss] Let's love words ...

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Some time ago I posted in social networks this:

"Let's love words, words do, words take care, words kill, let's be careful with 
words! The words in emails and social networks are more dangerous, but do not 
be afraid of them!"

So allow me some final words for this week meeting.

1) We have a code of conduct that is not being respected by "Benjamin Ledoh" 
(in quotes because it looks it is an alias). There are clear doubts that this 
person is actually another community member, which is co-author of a policy 
proposal to change the PDP. If this is the case, how the community can trust a 
proposal and support it, if he is acting in such *criminal* way against the PDP 
process and the overall community?

I still give him a 50% of doubts that may be he is not the same guy and 
somebody is incriminating him. But if this is the case, he should go to google, 
policy, or whatever, to ask for clarifications, even if neccesary with a court 
order and prove it to the community.

Why the complete AFRINIC community should be shamed and fighting about this 
guy? How come we can support a coward hiding behind an alias and do nothing?

I *urge the board* to investigate the real person behind that email, even with 
a legal claim in the Mauritious courts and then to apply strictly the code of 
conduct. At the moment that email has been indefinitely suspended in the RPD, 
but this is not enough. What about the Community-Discuss list? What about the 
real person behind this? Should the real person behind that email still be able 
to participate in meetings and other mailing list with the real name? Should be 
also be able to participate in the community, or shold be suspended for a few 
years because this? I'm sure bylaws support those actions.

Otherwise, we are telling everyone that wants to attack the other members and 
the system: Please create aliases and feel free to keep creating internal wars.

I *urge the staff* to confirm if the community has a real "Benjamin Ledoh" in 
the meetings or as a contact for members, or whatever. This is not confidential 
information in the sense that he is using public mailing list and may be is a 
contact in the whois.

The PDP and the community are not safe *UNTIL* this issue is cleaned up and 
resolved.

Despite all what I've said, I think, we all must forgive, *if and only if* the 
real person behind "Benjamin Ledoh" recognizes his mistake and then continues 
participating normally.

2) I always though that *everybody*, including staff, board and chairs, because 
all them are community members, should be able to participate in the policy 
discussions and thus, in the policy meetings and openly express their opinions. 
They should just clearly state "hat off" to allow the community do 
differentiate their own personal view from the position they have.

However, in the policy day this week, I felt shamed when the legal councel 
stated (if I understood correctly, sorry videos and scripts are not available), 
that I should not use references to other RIRs in the policy proposals. I think 
this is contrary to logic and contrary to procedure and the staff or AFRINIC 
contractors, must know the procedures and make sure they don't contradict them, 
because they are harming the community.

Are we afraid of reusing previous experience? Really?

The policy template ask for references, and when you submit a policy proposal, 
if you leave the references empty, one of the first questions from the staff 
will be "what is the status of this in other RIR, can you explain that and have 
URLs?". And of course, in the slides for a policy proposal presentation, you 
will summarize it as well (or we should hide part of the policy proposal in the 
slides?).

This is understandable because Internet is global, and what is being done in 
other regions, or similar groups (example IETF), is relevant to all of us. 
Previous experience is always good to know.

Nobody is telling that every RIR should follow what others are doing (I clearly 
explained it in my presentations). NOT AT ALL, but we must know it, is just a 
reference. It is not neccesarily the only aspect to consider. Or we don't look 
always, in our personal and profesional life for other previous experiences 
from other organizations or people?

This comment in the microphone only adds to my perception of many of the 
problems that I see within the community, one more negative point about how we 
are legally managing this organization.

I know I will be hate by this, but I'm sorry, I'm not a coward, I'm not an 
hypocrit: I *urge the board* to consider an alternative legal counsel. My 
general feeling after similar situations in different meetings, is that the 
actual legal counsel is not doing a good job. I see in other similar 
organizations (including RIRs), that the meetings are well prepared for all 
kind of contingenies and situation, and there is always plan A, plan B, plan C 
and even 2-3 more plans. This is not happening here, and this is 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Souad,

 

I basically agree with your inputs, except the one about the “booklet”.

 

Printing is expensive and not good for the planet. Most of the time it goes to 
the waste can.

 

I can suggest an alternative thing. A specific web page, remarked in each even 
web page top menu that contains a PDF with the relevant information for all the 
policy proposals for that meeting, links to them, etc. This way, the people 
that prefer printed, can find their own way to do so.

 

This document can have a small introductory section about how to subcribe to 
the mailing list, review the archives, remark the “preparatory” meetings 
agenda, etc.

 

I think it should be just 1-2 pages. We don’t need to duplicate the content of 
the policy proposals, just ask each author a 1-paragraph to shortly summarize 
each proposal it their own words. Link to the full proposal text and done!

 

I’m happy as well to contribute to that work if the staff needs it.

 

The weminars we already proposed are important as well. Right now I’m already 
missing the chats among the authors to define the July, August and September 
weminars. Are we moving on that, or are we finally wasting half of the time 
that we have until the next meeting?

 

We need *much more* proactivity, please!

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 11:51, "SOUAD ABIDI"  escribió:

 

Hello,

 

After attending two AfriNIC meetings, I noticed that afriNIC boot doesn't have 
any flayers, booklets or any kind of printed material to share with the 
newcomers about how AfriNIC works or the main policies to discuss in the 
meeting period.

 

Below some suggestions : 

 

a)  To have a booklet about the hottest topics written by Policy authors in 
each afriNIC meeting , where they explain briefly the policy in a simple way, 
which in my opinion will increase the rate of participation in the room, since 
most of the newcomers are not subscribed in the mailing list yet so not aware 
about what's going on. 

 

 

b) I agree with Jordi to make a session with newcomers after the newcomers' 
session on the first day, to discuss the policies before the PDP day. 

 

c) I suggest for AfriNIC fellowship program,  to make a mandatory course to 
complete by the fellows before attending the meeting so they can have an idea 
about the AFRINIC meeting and getting a maximum contribution during the 
meeting.  

 

I know that AFRINIC website has many resources, but a dedicated course to the 
newcomers with a scope from each main area, I believe would be useful(As ICANN 
does with the fellows).

[I volunteer to contribute in this if it's approved]

 

By doing so, we won't let the floor to multiple resources that might lead to 
confusion.

 

Best regards.

Souad

 

Le mer. 3 juil. 2019 à 09:48, Sami Salih  a écrit :

Salam,

 

If I remember well, the colonists also came to "help".

 

To help someone/nation you need to be humble enough to give them the abstract 
things (Materials in this case), especially when dealing with young/fresh 
fellows. I believe from my long teaching experience that its much better to 
pass the abstract level of the knowledge so that student can use his own 
brain/logic to drawn the conclusion based on his logic. Giving youth ready made 
conclusions to just parroting others logic is much harming. Increasing the 
population at AFRINIC meeting is not a goal.

To show the good well of the fellowship providers, its much better to involve 
AFRINIC in the process from selection throw education and then effectively 
contribute to the meeting. This is the only way to assure sustainable, 
valuable, and trusted contributions and  to build a real "bottom-up", "Open", 
and "Transparent" process in a real democratic way. 

 

Those who are in my age may remember this "no separation for one nation down 
down colonization"

 

 

 

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 

From: Ousmane M. TESSA 
Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 11:17 AM
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC List
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship 

 

A+  Jordi!

As an academic, most useful educational materials to leraners community have to 
be FAIR (findable accessible interoperable and reusable)!

So selective use of filtered and uncorrect "quoted" opinions have a flavour of 
... project!

Those who say that they come as samaritain to "help" must bear in mind that 
AfriNIC community is more agile and smart than they think!

RESPECT! RESPECT! "Shouting is not a act of vitality"!

Dr Ousmane TESSA


JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss  a 
écrit :

Actually, I think this is something to be done by Afrinic, with the help of PDP 
chairs and policy proposal authors. The goal is not to convince them about 
*any* pol

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

This is really very ugly. Are we really crazy to believe that the community is 
not able to decide on their own?

 

I’ve seen a similar situation in other regions and this is outside of the code 
of conduct (written or not), or the elections proccesses. There are several 
points here:

 
Have the emails of the recipients of this message been legally “acquired”, I 
mean with a previous and explicit consent, or have they been “collected” from 
people participating in mail exploders? In many countries, collecting emails 
from people is against law.
Have the recipients of those emails, authorized explicitly to get “publicity 
about candidates” ? If not, this is just one more way of spam, again, may be 
against law in many countries.
Has the elections process authorized to do advertising of candidates outside of 
the formal processes?
Has the elections process authorized other committee members to use their 
“position” as a way to convince the community about whom to vote?
 

I think there must be an explicit prohibition for doing all this and if anyone 
does it, it needs to be possible to punish him/her (and possible the involved 
candidates) with several years impossibility to be part of board, committees, 
or participate as candidate in any kind of elections.

 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 13:18, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Hi Wafa,

 

 

Thanks for your email.

 

I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from 
you many times.

 

I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for 
those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in 
his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context 
of our strategy " what is your strategy and who are you ?

 

 

If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email 
as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of 
Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ?

 

I sent this mail many time but I don’t know why I can’t find this mail on 
community 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ahmed Fadl 

 

 

From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM
To: wafa Dahmani 
Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

 

 

Dear,

 My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African 
community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / 
AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC.
I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates:

Board of Directors:
North Africa (seat 1)

· Habin Youssef

West Africa (seat 2)

· Ly Ousmane


South Africa (seat 5)

· Mpisane Vika William


East Africa (seat 6)

· Nkusi Robert Ford


Non-regional (seat 7)

· Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye




Election Number Resource Organization Number Council

· Mustapha Ben Jemaa


Election Policy Development Working Group

· Komi Elitcha

· Sami Hassan


Election Governance Committee

· Daniel Nanghaka

Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy  and in order to preserve 
AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates 
for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and 
vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board

the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for 
all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to 
mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates
We strongly solicit your support

Thank you

Wafa Dahmani

member AFRINIC Appeal Committee
Global IGF MAG member
ASO / AC excom member

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Sami,

 

My point here is that the campaigns need to be done *only* in a neutral way, 
not by board or committee members, not by staff, and only to people that you 
*already* know. So, they should be done only in the official ways determined in 
the elections process.

 

I’m not, *at all*, discussion about if the candidates are good, bad, or if I 
support them or not, just the way it has been done and I urge the board to take 
measures.

 

If you collect my email from any kind of database, without my previous and 
explicit consent, this is against law (and even immoral and unethical, in my 
personal opinion).

 

Moreover, if you do that with an EU citizen or resident, it is against GDPR, 
which means that you can get fines up to 20 million euros. And in case you 
don’t know, Mauritius is one of the countries that signed agreements with the 
EU about GDPR, so the legislation is applicable with the Afrinic databases as 
well.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 13:49, "Sami Salih"  escribió:

 

Salam,

 

I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators 
(I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of 
AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature 
represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the 
recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. 
This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push 
them to support/oppose something.

My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email 
represent SUST!

 

BR

 

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 

From: Andrew Alston 
Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM
To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections 

 

This email raises so many questions.

 

While as I have clearly stated – I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying 
on behalf of candidates and their beliefs – however – I have serious issues 
when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this.

 

As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email.

 

a.   Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ‘s view

b.  Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal 
committee – and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist 
in such a committee.

c.   Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF?

 

I really hope not – but – I have to ask – since that is what the email was 
signed as.

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

From: Ahmed Fadl  
Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15
To: wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Hi Wafa,

 

 

Thanks for your email.

 

I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from 
you many times.

 

I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for 
those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in 
his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context 
of our strategy " what is your strategy and who are you ?

 

 

If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email 
as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of 
Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ?

 

I sent this mail many time but I don’t know why I can’t find this mail on 
community 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ahmed Fadl 

 

 

From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM
To: wafa Dahmani 
Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

 

 

Dear,

 My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African 
community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / 
AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC.
I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates:

Board of Directors:
North Africa (seat 1)

· Habin Youssef

West Africa (seat 2)

· Ly Ousmane


South Africa (seat 5)

· Mpisane Vika William


East Africa (seat 6)

· Nkusi Robert Ford


Non-regional (seat 7)

· Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye




Election Number Resource Organization Number Council

· Mustapha Ben Jemaa


Election Policy Development Working Group

· Komi Elitcha

· Sami Hassan


Election Governance Committee

· Daniel Nanghaka

Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy  and in order to preserve 
AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates 
for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and 
vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board

the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Anne-Vivien,

 

I don’t have any doubt about the good intent, but looking at your attachment, 
it is more negative than good for the community, at least, in my opinion.

 
It is discussing about older versions of the policy proposals (even withdraw 
ones), so it confuses people.
It is citing only some of the inputs in the list and making your own summary of 
the problem and how it is addressed, so it is biased.
It is extracting “pros” and “cons”, so again, it is biasing people.
 

I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see 
our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above 
and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* 
proposals/versions are considered.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 17:34, "Anne-vivien Paris"  escribió:

 

Dear all, 

 

Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary to 
clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the community. 

 

As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization. It is 
a registered NGO recognized by local government and everything we do is obliged 
by the law. Openness, equity and freedom are our principles. To prevent further 
confusion, I hereby attach the original copy of the Education Package we 
provide to our fellow. Nothing has been amended as we would like to show you 
the original work (an apology goes to the fact that staff mistakenly messed 
Noah's comment with another party, thanks for pointing that out Noah). 

 

In fact, you can also find the T in the link below: 

https://www.larusfoundation.org/fellowship-term-conditions/

 

We would be more than happy to provide our T and education package to the 
community for review should there be such a request in the future.

 

Best regards, 

Vivien 

Vivien PARIS
Larus FOUNDATION
p:+44 7746 416450

w: www.larusfoundation.org
a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

One more point to add.

 

I recall it has been said that fellows don’t sign an NDA and you also indicated 
that everything is public.

 

However, when I read your T, it says:

 

II. FELLOW’S OBLIGATIONS

J. LARUS’s intellectual property rights (including but not limited to 
agreements, documents, software, databases, website) may only be used, 
reproduced and made available to third parties upon prior written authorization 
from LARUS.

 

So, I think this is contradictory.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 17:45, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

 

Hi Anne-Vivien,

 

I don’t have any doubt about the good intent, but looking at your attachment, 
it is more negative than good for the community, at least, in my opinion.

 

1)  It is discussing about older versions of the policy proposals (even 
withdraw ones), so it confuses people.

2)  It is citing only some of the inputs in the list and making your own 
summary of the problem and how it is addressed, so it is biased.

3)  It is extracting “pros” and “cons”, so again, it is biasing people.

 

I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see 
our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above 
and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* 
proposals/versions are considered.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 17:34, "Anne-vivien Paris"  escribió:

 

Dear all, 

 

Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary to 
clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the community. 

 

As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization. It is 
a registered NGO recognized by local government and everything we do is obliged 
by the law. Openness, equity and freedom are our principles. To prevent further 
confusion, I hereby attach the original copy of the Education Package we 
provide to our fellow. Nothing has been amended as we would like to show you 
the original work (an apology goes to the fact that staff mistakenly messed 
Noah's comment with another party, thanks for pointing that out Noah). 

 

In fact, you can also find the T in the link below: 

https://www.larusfoundation.org/fellowship-term-conditions/

 

We would be more than happy to provide our T and education package to the 
community for review should there be such a request in the future.

 

Best regards, 

Vivien 

Vivien PARIS
Larus FOUNDATION
p:+44 7746 416450

w: www.larusfoundation.org
a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Wafa,

As I’ve expressed in many occasions, I’m all for freedom of speech. However, 
when you have a position elected by the community, you need to take care and 
avoid miss interpretations.

That’s means that in your messages you must clearly state “hat-off” and not 
remark your positions as ASO-AC, or whatever, just to make 1% clear that it 
is your position.

Note that even this email from you (which according to what you said now, I 
understand it is personal) is signed as “Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee - 
Global IGF MAG member - ASO / AC excom member”.

Just for example, when IETF co-chairs state their opinion for any document (in 
the email list or in the meeting) they clearly say it is hat-off and is only 
their personal view. Same when sometimes, chairs of PDP state their position.

The question to be clarified anyway, is how you choose your email recipients. 
It is people that you personally know and have agree to receive your “campaign” 
emails, or you used emails from a list or database.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 3/7/19 17:51, "wafa DAHMANI"  escribió:

Hello All,

I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my 
personal behalf. 

I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my 
personal capacity. 

Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal 
opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates.

In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels.


Wafa Dahmani

Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee
Global IGF MAG member
ASO / AC excom member


De: "Paschal Ochang" 
À: "community-discuss" , "rpd" 
Envoyé: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18
Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani

Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus 
Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this 
two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation 
towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable 
community be clarified on this allegations please. 

Dear,

 My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African 
community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / 
AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC.
I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates:

Board of Directors:
North Africa (seat 1)

Habin Youssef
West Africa (seat 2)

Ly Ousmane

South Africa (seat 5)

Mpisane Vika William

East Africa (seat 6)

Nkusi Robert Ford

Non-regional (seat 7)

Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye



Election Number Resource Organization Number Council

Mustapha Ben Jemaa

Election Policy Development Working Group

Komi Elitcha
Sami Hassan

Election Governance Committee

Daniel Nanghaka
Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy  and in order to preserve 
AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates 
for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and 
vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board

the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for 
all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to 
mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates
We strongly solicit your support

Thank you

Wafa Dahmani

member AFRINIC Appeal Committee
Global IGF MAG member
ASO / AC excom member



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Sander,

I agree with your if we mean summary of the discussion, but actually I was 
meaning summary of the proposal, which in fact is already requested in the 
proposal forms and is already done by authors. Sometimes that's more a single 
paragraph, so in those cases I think it should be up to the authors to prepare 
it.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 3/7/19 18:20, "Sander Steffann"  escribió:

Hi Jordi,

> I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff 
(see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 
above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* 
proposals/versions are considered.

I accept, except s/authors and staff/wg chairs/. Afrinic staff is in a 
difficult position as their jobs and tasks can be influenced by policy 
proposals, so asking them to write a non-biased summary isn't fair. The working 
group chairs have explicitly chosen to represent the working group as a whole 
and to be neutral regarding proposals, so they are the most appropriate people 
to make summaries. It's what they do when determining consensus anyway, so it 
is already part of their tasks. Sharing that before a face-to-face meeting 
would be very helpful and will help focus the discussions there.

Cheers!
Sander





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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Badru,

 

Well with the response from Ahmed, it is clear that:
He didn’t provided his email.
He didn’t authorized this kind of communication.
 

Only the sender can tell from were the emails have been obtained, but in any 
case, it is an illegal action in many countries (personal data 
collection/proccesing without the owner authorization,  and sending spam 
without previous and explicit consent).

 

I’ve got also a handful of emails, in private, from other folks that have been 
in the same situation as Ahmed. I asked them to go to the list, because I need 
to respect their privacy if they don’t want to say.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 5/7/19 6:13, "Badru Ntege"  escribió:

 

Jordi  

 

Curious to know the end in mind with your question??   Please elucidate

 

BN

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
Reply-To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ 
Date: Thursday, July 4, 2019 at 12:11 PM
To: Ahmed Fadl , "Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Hi Ahmen,

 

I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you 
personally provided your email to Wafa?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Hi Jordi 

Already my mail provided for all community members

Thank you 

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.pa...@consulintel.es] 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Hi Ahmed,

 

Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that’s the case, 
if it was for discussing about candidates?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Thank you Sami for your introduction

Let me also introduce myself 

My name is Ahmed Fadl, I’m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called 
children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of 
charge, my role is healthcare applications director.

Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this 
specializations.

Also I’m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic 
community.

My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person 
before we vote for them.

I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don’t know 

The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because 
we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions 
knowledge and skills.

This is what I mean by my mail.

Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all 
African countries.

Also all respect for community members.

Thank you 

 

 

From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.sa...@outlook.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM
To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl 
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Salam

 

I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows 
who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear !

Looking for your positive continuous engagement.

 

BR 

 

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 

From: Noah 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections 

 

Dear Ahmed

 

First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am 
seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage 
in various discussions as a member of the community now.

 

So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to 
the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in 
general.

 

Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of 
AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC 
ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP 
association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the 
AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations 
because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is 
from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise.

 

I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this 
community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use 
my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of 
the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have 
been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, 
sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views 
on various

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Alan,

If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has 
to comply with GDPR.

I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs 
may tell.

I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the 
community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, just 
to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid 
repeating them.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett"  escribió:



> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:
> 
> I’m angrier about this as much as I think on it again.
>  
> Can the board and the staff investigate this?
>  
> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided 
voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if 
those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this 
personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic 
internal databases.

There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the 
recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani.  There is 
also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were 
collected from the public WHOIS database.  There is no non-public AFRINIC 
database that could have been used.

Regards,
Alan Barrett


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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Ommo,

 

Responding very shortly:

 

If the emails come from an internal Afrinic database (for example, membership), 
then the data protection regulations are not efficient.

 

The nicer/faster solution is that Wafa tell us how the emails were collected, 
because if there is some unexpected “open” database, we need to correct it.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 5/7/19 23:57, "Omo Oaiya"  escribió:

 

Jordi,

 



On 5 Jul 2019, at 22:13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:

 

Hi Alan,

If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has 
to comply with GDPR.

I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs 
may tell.

 

 

…may have a problem

 

…..I don’t know if those ..

 

Seems to me that you are fishing and stretching this a bit.   What 
responsibilities would AFRINIC not have complied with in this case?

 


I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the 
community will be happy to forgive her. 

 

 

If anything, this business is between Wafa and the folks with whom she 
communicated.  I don’t see how “forgiveness” by the community comes in. 

 

My intent is not to punish anyone, 

 

Even if it were, how would you punish anyone??



just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and 
avoid repeating them.

 

It is starting to look like you have more in mind than that.

 

Best wishes

Omo

 


Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett"  escribió:





On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:

I’m angrier about this as much as I think on it again.

Can the board and the staff investigate this?

Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided 
voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if 
those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this 
personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic 
internal databases.


   There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the 
recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani.  There is 
also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were 
collected from the public WHOIS database.  There is no non-public AFRINIC 
database that could have been used.

   Regards,
   Alan Barrett


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Omo OAIYA
Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Stratégie | WACREN
m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693


 





 



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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Noah,

 

I just responded to a previous email on this.

 

The law is not about “if you don’t like an email send it to the junk box”. The 
law is about protecting people privacy and emails are (in most of the countries 
in the world), personal data.

 

Nobody can use emails for a different purpose as the one they have been 
provided. Spam is not about “repetitive” emails. Spam is “any” single email 
that is not authorized, because you didn’t provided the email for that.

 

Saying “send it to the junk box” is like saying a victim of rape (or whatever 
other crime), is your fault, you were on the wrong streeet on the wrong time, 
don’t go there.

 

I understand that in some countries this is not the law, but we should respect, 
when working in the Afrinic enviroment, the laws from Mauritious, which is one 
of the countries that has already agreed on those data protection regulations 
(GDPR).

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 5/7/19 10:51, "Noah"  escribió:

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:42 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:

Hi Noah,

 

I’m sure we all have contacts from lots of people from the community, but we 
use those contacts for the reason they have been provided, is not lawful to use 
those for anything else.

 

I have sent some of my contacts an emails that were not related to the original 
reasons the email was provided for. I have received emails from my contacts and 
people who are not my contact. I even receive calls from people I don't know 
and who are not my in my mobile phone contact. If I found the email reasonable, 
I act on it otherwise I delete it, simple as that.  If you don't like the 
email, send it to the SPAM/JUNK email, simple as that. If you don't like the 
phone call, drop it.

 

People share other peoples contacts email/phones and people ask other people 
about other peoples contacts. In my country, I even receive presidential 
campaign text messages and sometime from even member of parliament requesting 
for my vote in the national elections. Candidates and their supports always go 
so far in outreach activities in order to consolidate support from different 
constituencies for their preferred candidate and its the nature of political 
campaigns world over. 

 

If the same email or call is made frequently, then that is a different story.

 

Noah



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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Mirriam,

 

I don’t agree. The only way for organizations and communities to go forward is 
to find solutions to problems.

 

If we don’t do that now, we will forget about this for 1 year, and then the 
mistake will be repeated by someone else. Is that what we want or we prefer to 
find our way into our self-regulation to avoid repeating over and over mistakes?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 5/7/19 14:46, "Mirriam via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

 

Hi guys

 

So I have been following these discussions and what i have noted is, some 
community members accusing others for something they also do.

 

Wafa clarified earlier that she was lobbying in her personal capacity for her 
preferred candidates from Northern Africa and others. And Mr.Dewole was also 
lobbying for his preferred board candidates Seun and Adewale within Nigeria. 
And Andrew Alston was lobbying for his preferred board candidates Sunday, 
Haitham and Silber in the past elections. 

 

Seems to me that different members from the community are also engaged in 
lobbying from what I have read with each individual stating their own reasons 
and plans why they prefer those candidates.  

 

Elections are over. We should concentrate on other important issues and maybe 
every lobbyist out there can revisit their lobbying activities when election 
season opens again. 

 

I don't see anything constructive from this discussion other than the fact that 
it has diverted attention from the email Wafa sent in an attempt to help new 
members of the community to get knowledge about the PDP .

 

As for Larus Foundation Fellowship issue which Wafa raised earlier before this 
confusion of lobbying,  I think Afrinic needs to intervene since they run 
fellowship programs  and show leadership so that the PDP is not abused further 
by other third parties. Third parties can directly work with Afrinic to remove 
doubt from the community.

 

Mirriam.

 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 1:22 PM, Andrew Alston

 wrote:

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[Community-Discuss] IPv6 faster than IPv4 (also with 464XLAT)

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

We already knew that from previous measurements, however the nice thing from 
this article is that it is analyzing many different providers worldwide:

https://teamarin.net/2019/06/25/why-is-ipv6-faster/


Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 



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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

to the rights of all people within the boundaries of the EU. Practically 
speaking, the GDPR protects the rights of anyone within its territorial reach 
while at the same time applying to any entity[2] using or accessing this 
personal data, no matter where the data exists. Trying to decipher what this 
means can be confusing without a more thorough analysis of the regulation and 
its accompanying commentary.

 

——

 



If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR.

If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent 
that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face 
sanctions/penalties from EU courts.

 

If the answer is YES, then there are more questions that need to be asked…

 

1. Is the person actually in the EU at the time the personal data is provided?

2. Is the person otherwise classified as an “EU Person”?

 

If the answer to either is YES, then there are more questions that need to be 
asked… If both are NO, then you’re done, no GDPR for you.

 

1. Is the activity in question subject to EU legal jurisdiction?

 

If you can answer NO to this (and I can’t think of an activity where AfriNIC 
would be collecting PII and answer yes), then again, you’re done, GDPR doesn’t 
apply.



Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection 
legislation on the continent and any data breach can actually be litigated 
locally (without the need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example 
it is determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic 
digital resources without consent from the data subjects).

 

I’ll leave the discussion of Mauritian law to those people who may be subject 
to it. I’m sure AfriNIC staff and applicable legal counsel can adequately 
address this.

 

Owen



 

walu.

 

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:



> On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Alan,
> 
> If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic 
> has to comply with GDPR.

Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with EU 
persons.

AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR.

Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but I 
don’t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was outside 
EU jurisdiction.


> I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs 
> may tell.

Why is this relevant?

> I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the 
> community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, 
> just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes 
> and avoid repeating them.

I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more 
important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which 
authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time.

Owen

> 
> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
> 
> 
> 
> El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett"  escribió:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m angrier about this as much as I think on it again.
>> 
>> Can the board and the staff investigate this?
>> 
>> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided 
>> voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or 
>> if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand 
>> if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from 
>> Afrinic internal databases.
> 
>There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the 
> recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani.  There is 
> also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were 
> collected from the public WHOIS database.  There is no non-public AFRINIC 
> database that could have been used.
> 
>Regards,
>Alan Barrett
> 
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I’m angrier about this as much as I think on it again.

 

Can the board and the staff investigate this?

 

Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided 
voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if 
those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this 
personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic 
internal databases.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 13:43, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

 

This is really very ugly. Are we really crazy to believe that the community is 
not able to decide on their own?

 

I’ve seen a similar situation in other regions and this is outside of the code 
of conduct (written or not), or the elections proccesses. There are several 
points here:

 

1)  Have the emails of the recipients of this message been legally 
“acquired”, I mean with a previous and explicit consent, or have they been 
“collected” from people participating in mail exploders? In many countries, 
collecting emails from people is against law.

2)  Have the recipients of those emails, authorized explicitly to get 
“publicity about candidates” ? If not, this is just one more way of spam, 
again, may be against law in many countries.

3)  Has the elections process authorized to do advertising of candidates 
outside of the formal processes?

4)  Has the elections process authorized other committee members to use 
their “position” as a way to convince the community about whom to vote?

 

I think there must be an explicit prohibition for doing all this and if anyone 
does it, it needs to be possible to punish him/her (and possible the involved 
candidates) with several years impossibility to be part of board, committees, 
or participate as candidate in any kind of elections.

 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/7/19 13:18, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Hi Wafa,

 

 

Thanks for your email.

 

I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from 
you many times.

 

I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for 
those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in 
his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context 
of our strategy " what is your strategy and who are you ?

 

 

If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email 
as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of 
Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ?

 

I sent this mail many time but I don’t know why I can’t find this mail on 
community 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ahmed Fadl 

 

 

From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM
To: wafa Dahmani 
Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

 

 

Dear,

 My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African 
community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / 
AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC.
I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates:

Board of Directors:
North Africa (seat 1)

· Habin Youssef

West Africa (seat 2)

· Ly Ousmane


South Africa (seat 5)

· Mpisane Vika William


East Africa (seat 6)

· Nkusi Robert Ford


Non-regional (seat 7)

· Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye




Election Number Resource Organization Number Council

· Mustapha Ben Jemaa


Election Policy Development Working Group

· Komi Elitcha

· Sami Hassan


Election Governance Committee

· Daniel Nanghaka

Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy  and in order to preserve 
AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates 
for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and 
vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board

the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for 
all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to 
mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates
We strongly solicit your support

Thank you

Wafa Dahmani

member AFRINIC Appeal Committee
Global IGF MAG member
ASO / AC excom member

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Arnaud,

 

I’m very happy that you send this email, because it addresses what I’m saying. 
Note that I was not aware of that before, but looks good to me (I look to the 
email on 6th of June), the other one is just congratulating about the results.

 

It is a public email, not private, even anyone can subscribe to that mailing 
list and look at the archives.
It is in the scope being a NOG, where all the participants may have a voice 
about how they want to drive Afrinic.
It is imploring for voting and is informing that there are two candidates from 
Nigeria and suggesting they are good candidates.
Dewole doesn’t mention anything about his position as co-chair, so it is an 
open and transparent (no confusion possible) message.
 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 9:08, "Arnaud AMELINA"  escribió:

 

Hi, community and PWG members

 

I noticed that lobbying for votes for afrinic BoD is being used to divert 
attention  from serious issue raised by WAFA.  Enough has been said, but  I 
wonder if I should condemn  Dewole, Afrinic pdp  cochair,  campaign  for board 
candidates, using national NOG  list and turning AFRINIC board election  to 
nationalism. (*l) 

let be serious, show maturity and address real issues.

 

 

(*) http://abuja.forum.org.ng/pipermail/ngnog-discuss/2019-June/005259.html

 

Arnaud

 

On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, 07:30 Andrew Alston  
wrote:

Badru,

Yet again – you have not read my emails.

I fully the support the right to lobby in public forms

I fully support the right of any individual to have their say

I fully support the right of any member to change the rules using due process 
as defined

I have said this, over and over again.  I have also been very blunt about the 
fact that yes, I have lobbied, and I make no apology for that because I believe 
that the right to lobby in the pursuit of ones goals, and I believe that 
essentially, elections are political processes and democratic in nature, and 
democracy doesn’t work without that aspect of it.

However, what I fundamentally disagree with – is misrepresentation of who we 
represent – something I have never done – and I fundamentally disagree with 
people who are in a directly conflicted position taking a stand which deepens 
that conflict, especially when the neutrality directly relates to things that 
affect this community.

I will quote from one of the emails I sent – which was to an email list 
containing many members:

I will quote from two separate emails that I have sent over the years to lobby 
in previous elections – these were sent to email lists that were not AfriNIC – 
they were not sent to individuals unsolicited – and there are many on this list 
who can attest to the accuracy of these emails.

Email 1:

I am not going to tell any of you how to vote – What I tell you above is my 
perspective, and yes, its biased towards what I have seen and how well I know 
the candidates.  What I will say however, is that it is absolutely critical 
that the South African members get online and vote – or show up at the meeting 
and vote – or send proxies – whichever – but have your voice heard.  As we move 
into a time when v4 is running out (AfriNIC is into its final /8), and when we 
move into an environment where so much is changing with that runout – and 
particularly when we have managed to turn an organization around – we need to 
ensure that we have strong candidates that represent the community and can keep 
the organization alive.  Because without AfriNIC – without a registry – we end 
up in trouble – and no one really wants the alternative scenarios.

So what I will ask is, look at the candidates, consider them not from a 
geo-political perspective, not from a linguistic perspective, but consider them 
on the merits and what they have achieved – and then vote as you feel.  Their 
CV’s are all online.

Email 2:

As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to issue 
proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting.  Those of you 
who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes out to 
study each and every candidate – but I am confident that what I have said above 
will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out there and use 
your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise one of the others 
when the slate comes out – but please, make sure you vote, either via proxy or 
via online or in person.  I cannot stress how many critical issues are going to 
come up in the next year or two, and without a strong and independent board we 
could face serious issues.

Both emails quote above are a matter of record for the world to see – and here 
is the major difference – a.) No where do I misrepresent who I am speaking for 
b.) I explicitly state – these are MY views, accept them or reject them, but – 
please vote – because its important to have your voice heard.  Had Wafa sent an 
email saying “Hi, I’m Wafa, and these are my specific views 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Andrew,

I’m not sure to agree with your view. I fully agree on freedom of expression, 
but there is a fairness and transparency point here. It is about respect to the 
PDP (and consequently the community).

When anyone present a summary of a policy proposal (which has been done already 
by the authors) you’re directly or indirectly doing your own analysis and 
arguing for or against based on your own perspective. This is influencing 
participants, it can be never 100% unbiassed.

Everybody is *free* to influence (or as you say lobby), but the fair way to do 
so is by discussing in the RPD mailing list, which is meant for that. Otherwise 
why we have the list?

If that document was shared in the list, upfront the meeting, instead of being 
presented only for the fellows, that will had made a difference.

Also, looking at the document we may be having part of the information that was 
provided during that presentation.

I think is wonderful that organizations like Larus Foundation may bring people 
to participate in the meetings, but why this needs to be done by their own 
instead of they just providing the money to Afrinic, agree in the selections 
process and not having direct contact with the fellows?

I’ve mention about this already long time ago:

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008849.html

 

And by the way, the PDP is not about democracy, but consensus.

As a proposals author, I’ve *never* tried to convince anyone outside the PDP 
list. I think this is the only way to be fair. I got many questions and 
opinions about the policy proposals in private emails, and my response is 
always the same: what you tell me here is not so “useful”, please go to the 
list.

Moreover, I sometimes send tweets about my policy proposals, but in a very 
neutral way, just informative and clearly stating that the discussion must 
happen in the list. Example:

https://twitter.com/jordipalet/status/1139835324782088192

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 2/7/19 14:39, "Andrew Alston"  escribió:

 

Wafa,

So – let me say this.  I see a document here – which lays out the policies – 
and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons.  Yes, 
Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but – one of 
the things that I have long accepted in my life is – if you believe in 
something – you have to lobby for it – and to be frank – the summary that I see 
in this document – is something that by and large – should have been done long 
before they got around to it.

If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free to go 
and advocate for my position.  I am also entirely free to sponsor people to 
come to a public meeting – and I am entirely free to choose those people as I 
so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that’s life – but it 
certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of internet policy 
development.  Do you think that similar does not happen elsewhere?  People 
lobby for the positions that they care about.  It happens in politics, it 
happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when someone else does the same 
thing.

Let me also say – it’s not like this hasn’t been happening before – and I want 
to quote from the OIF website: IOF organises political activities and actions 
of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking populations.

Yet – this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the room 
with people – and that statement does not say – is of benefit to Africa – it 
does not say is of benefit to the African continent – it does not say is to the 
benefit of the continent – it singles out a single demographic on the continent 
and says – we do what we do for their benefit.   Now, let me be very clear, if 
they wish to do that – I’m actually ok with it – though I admit I have waivered 
on this stance – however, we cannot say – because it’s a government political 
organization – it’s ok – but when a member chooses to have a foundation – and 
sponsor people to the meetings – and then lobby for the positions that member 
is passionate about – suddenly its wrong.  That is called hypocrisy.

In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone – with slips of paper 
and read a comment on a policy – and then go and sit down – and the same 
happened in Botswana.  Except, what I found was, when queried on the position 
that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they had off the 
paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn’t understand the 
position they were taking themselves.  So who was behind that?  And all of that 
– is on video for the world to see – but – it was ok then – suddenly it changes 
now because we don’t like the individual doing it?

Sorry – this isn’t the way it works – and let me be clear – Lu Heng is not a 
friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things to say 
to him to his face, in front of 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Noah,

 

I’m sure we all have contacts from lots of people from the community, but we 
use those contacts for the reason they have been provided, is not lawful to use 
those for anything else.

 

The point here is that even if I’ve your email because we have contected about 
operational issues of our networks (for example), I can use your email for 
selling you “fruits” or “a car” or “convince you about what candidates to the 
board you should vote”.

 

In fact, according to the GDPR (and in many countries even before the GDPR), if 
I’ve your email because you’re my customer for shoes, and tomorrow I setup a 
shop for fish, I can’t use your email for that. If instead of shoes it is 
clothes, it may depend on the original data that was provided about my business 
when you registered for the shoes. However, definitively I can’t use your email 
for sending you a support request for my prefered board candidates.

 

Anyway, there is a simple answer to all that. Can Ahmed, who send the original 
email, confirm if he provided it to the sender, for elections information or 
something else ?

 

Can other folks who got that email, confirm if they have provided it?

 

With just a few responses, we will be able to understand if that was part of an 
allowed communication or there is data protection issue.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 0:07, "Noah"  escribió:

 

Hi Jordi,

 

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:51 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:

I’m angrier about this as much as I think on it again.

 

I hope you have come down.

 

 

Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided 
voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if 
those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this 
personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic 
internal databases.

 

I can confirm I did receive such similar emails from various candidates and 
some of their supporters seeking my vote. I can also confirm that my address 
book is full of contact email addresses of technical members of various 
communities. I for instance know most email addresses of technical people in my 
country and a few other countries in East and Southern Africa and I have 
exchanged emails with folks in the past and I still reach out to them often 
regarding various Internet related activities. 

 

Cheers,

Noah

 

 



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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Actually, I think this is something to be done by Afrinic, with the help of PDP 
chairs and policy proposal authors. The goal is not to convince them about 
*any* policy proposal, just to have more open time for openly discussing them, 
and mainly oriented to newcomers, but not only.

 

I’ve actually suggested (several times) for the last couple of years, some of 
those activities, that I’ve suggested as well in other RIRs and have been 
implemented already, with a great success. Up to now, it has never been done, 
despite how much I’ve insisted (staff and co-chairs can confirm that I’ve once 
and again provided lots of those ideas).

 

Here is a copy & paste of an email about that with the staff:

 

… concrete actions some of the in every meeting:

    

1) Setting up open sessions for discussion with policy proposal authors. 
The idea is that all the authors (willing to contribute) have a short 
explanation of each policy proposal (no slides, a common slide with titles of 
all policy proposals just for reference), and they can discuss openly with the 
participants. There is not any decision process here.

 

    In order to plan agenda, I suggest doing this after the session for 
newcomers and/or sponsored fellows, same meeting room, so the people don't need 
to move, make it as easier as possible for them. In LACNIC we did that on 
Sunday evening because most of the folks travel on the morning. Distances and 
flights aren't the same in this region, so we should consider that.

    

2) Setting up specific tables for lunch for the same. Similar to above, so 
people with interest or questions about policy proposal, can sit down with 
authors to have a more open discussion.

    

3) Group Dynamics. Take newcomers and other people interested in the PDP. 
One morning before the policy-day. Create 3-4 small groups depending on how 
many folks participate (may be more if there are more people, but you need one 
staff or co-chair for each group), and each group should work in 
"understanding" a different policy proposal, looking for pros-cons, and trying 
to "develop" consensus on it and then presenting shortly their results to all 
the groups. The idea is that they get used to the process and can bring their 
views to the policy day. As the previous ones, this is not a formal part of the 
PDP. But in LACNIC has been useful because new people get engaged in the list 
and in the mics of the meeting.

 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 2/7/19 20:55, "Noah"  escribió:

 

 

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 17:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss, 
 wrote:

 

When anyone present a summary of a policy proposal (which has been done already 
by the authors) you’re directly or indirectly doing your own analysis and 
arguing for or against based on your own perspective. This is influencing 
participants, it can be never 100% unbiassed.

+1 Jordi 

 

I believe Wafa has provided far much better educational materials (unbiassed) 
on the policy development process to all the newbie's who can parse through and 
understand through those various links the origins of AfriNIC and how the 
entire pdp process works.

 

If anything, new folks would find the rpd list and its archives even more 
educational than a well documented and somewhat misleading document which is 
suspect.

 

I have been party to various working groups that lobby for or against some 
policies which is completely fine but the Larus Foundation approach is on some 
next level and seriously undermines the entire pdp process.

 

Noah



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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or 
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individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, 
copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if 
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considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware 
that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Ahmed,

 

Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that’s the case, 
if it was for discussing about candidates?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Thank you Sami for your introduction

Let me also introduce myself 

My name is Ahmed Fadl, I’m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called 
children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of 
charge, my role is healthcare applications director.

Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this 
specializations.

Also I’m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic 
community.

My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person 
before we vote for them.

I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don’t know 

The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because 
we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions 
knowledge and skills.

This is what I mean by my mail.

Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all 
African countries.

Also all respect for community members.

Thank you 

 

 

From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.sa...@outlook.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM
To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl 
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Salam

 

I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows 
who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear !

Looking for your positive continuous engagement.

 

BR 

 

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 

From: Noah 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections 

 

Dear Ahmed

 

First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am 
seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage 
in various discussions as a member of the community now.

 

So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to 
the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in 
general.

 

Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of 
AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC 
ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP 
association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the 
AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations 
because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is 
from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise.

 

I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this 
community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use 
my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of 
the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have 
been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, 
sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views 
on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying 
to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on 
her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and 
the community. 

 

Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it .. and my view of that email 
from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and 
candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as 
some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib 
ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board 
elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of 
campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's 
choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board 
election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does.

 

In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign 
that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some 
members of the various constituencies within the community and this also 
perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private 
lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking 
and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all 
candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking 
still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable 
and normal and as they say, 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Thanks a lot for your response Ahmed!

 

I think is key to identify the source of the emails and to make sure that they 
haven’t been provided explicitly by the owners.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 10:25, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

No 

 

 

Ahmed Fadl  |​  Healthcare Applications DirectorP: +201229889806   |  EXT: 6236 
  |   E: ahmed.f...@57357.org 
​ 
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and 
confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) 
named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified 
that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this 
communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original 
message

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.pa...@consulintel.es] 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:09 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Hi Ahmen,

 

I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you 
personally provided your email to Wafa?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Hi Jordi 

Already my mail provided for all community members

Thank you 

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.pa...@consulintel.es] 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Hi Ahmed,

 

Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that’s the case, 
if it was for discussing about candidates?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Thank you Sami for your introduction

Let me also introduce myself 

My name is Ahmed Fadl, I’m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called 
children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of 
charge, my role is healthcare applications director.

Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this 
specializations.

Also I’m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic 
community.

My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person 
before we vote for them.

I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don’t know 

The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because 
we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions 
knowledge and skills.

This is what I mean by my mail.

Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all 
African countries.

Also all respect for community members.

Thank you 

 

 

From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.sa...@outlook.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM
To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl 
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Salam

 

I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows 
who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear !

Looking for your positive continuous engagement.

 

BR 

 

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 

From: Noah 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections 

 

Dear Ahmed

 

First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am 
seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage 
in various discussions as a member of the community now.

 

So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to 
the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in 
general.

 

Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of 
AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC 
ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP 
association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the 
AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations 
because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is 
from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise.

 

I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this 
community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use 
my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of 
the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have 
been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, 
sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views 
on various matters pertaining the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Ahmen,

 

I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you 
personally provided your email to Wafa?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Hi Jordi 

Already my mail provided for all community members

Thank you 

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.pa...@consulintel.es] 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Hi Ahmed,

 

Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that’s the case, 
if it was for discussing about candidates?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl"  escribió:

 

Thank you Sami for your introduction

Let me also introduce myself 

My name is Ahmed Fadl, I’m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called 
children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of 
charge, my role is healthcare applications director.

Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this 
specializations.

Also I’m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic 
community.

My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person 
before we vote for them.

I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don’t know 

The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because 
we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions 
knowledge and skills.

This is what I mean by my mail.

Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all 
African countries.

Also all respect for community members.

Thank you 

 

 

From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.sa...@outlook.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM
To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl 
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

 

Salam

 

I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows 
who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear !

Looking for your positive continuous engagement.

 

BR 

 

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 

From: Noah 
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM
To: Ahmed Fadl
Cc: Community-Discuss@afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections 

 

Dear Ahmed

 

First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am 
seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage 
in various discussions as a member of the community now.

 

So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to 
the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in 
general.

 

Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of 
AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC 
ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP 
association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the 
AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations 
because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is 
from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise.

 

I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this 
community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use 
my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of 
the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have 
been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, 
sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views 
on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying 
to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on 
her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and 
the community. 

 

Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it .. and my view of that email 
from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and 
candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as 
some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib 
ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board 
elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of 
campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's 
choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board 
election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does.

 

In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign 
that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific 

Re: [Community-Discuss] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (off-topic)

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi SM,

Responding from my own perspective, hopefully is useful.

I think "independent" is not easy to find, and is not related to a specific 
region.

But here are some "numbers" based on my own experience (from my customers 
networks, so independent on the sense of "not just one case").

This also follows numbers that other operators (not just my customers) have 
confirmed, for example in v6ops and other foras.

If you deploy CGN (so you want to stay with IPv4 artificially) instead of IPv6, 
you need CGN boxes to cover 100% of your traffic. Add to this the necessary 
IPv4 pools for each CGN box. The IPv4 pools will cost money when AFRINIC can't 
source those anymore.

If you deploy an IPv6-only with IPv4-as-a-Service (464XLAT, MAP-T/E, lw4o6, 
DS-Lite), because the IPv4-only traffic accounts only for the 24%, you only 
need 1/4 of the "equivalent" box to the CGNs (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.), and 
probably less than 1/4 of the IPv4 addresses.

So, I will bet that you can save in terms of IPv4 addresses and operator 
infrastructure, with a good knowledge and planning of what are you doing, up to 
75%. If your network is mainly residential, because the IPv6 availability in 
CDNs and caches is in those cases up to 85%, savings can be even bigger.

In addition to that, there are some advantages such as the opex savings. It is 
less expensive to manage IPv6-only with IPv4aaS across your network than pure 
dual-stack. May be not 50% savings, but still impacting a lot.

Some transition mechanisms make a more efficient use of the number of ports 
(and do not limit how many per customer), so consequently you even need less 
IPv4 addresses, this is for example the case, in my experience, of 464XLAT.

We have some considerations about this at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lmhp-v6ops-transition-comparison/
(new version coming in a matter of hours ... working on it already!)

And by the way, if you need to buy CPEs, please, make sure to ask for RFC8585 
support if you want to be safe and save more money!

All this may be a bit different depending on the transition mechanism that you 
choose, and also depending on a broadband-only network, % of residential 
customers vs business ones (if they require pure dual-stack), cellular or a mix 
of all those. And of course, what quality of service (number of ports per 
customer in the CGN or alike) you want to "provide".

I know I'm not talking about USD here, because that depends a lot on many 
factors, case by case:
1) How much you pay for the CGN or alike (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.) boxes.
2) Do you need to replace the CPEs or you have got them already with IPv6 
support.
3) May be existing boxes in your network already do some of the CGN or alike 
(NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.) functions.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 1/7/19 18:24, "S. Moonesamy"  escribió:

Dear Lee,
At 08:59 AM 28-06-2019, Lee Howard wrote:
>A company can save money on IPv4 addresses and CGN by deploying 
>IPv6. But it's too late to deploy IPv6 before Afrinic runs out of 
>addresses. Addresses will run out, and the market will not be able 
>to satisfy the need for addresses. ISPs and mobile carriers 
>everywhere in Africa will have to deploy CGN, and at higher density 
>than elsewhere in the world. The cost for businesses to connect will 
>be much higher, since they need inbound access and therefore unique 
>IPv4 addresses. African Internet deployment will stall, all because 
>IPv6 has not been deployed and there is no way to get more IPv4 addresses.

Is there any independent study to show that a company in this service 
region can save money by deploying IPv6?

Regards,
S. Moonesamy 


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Re: [Community-Discuss] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (off-topic)

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

By the way another reference, this one specific to 464XLAT:

NAT64/464XLAT Deployment Guidelines in Operator and Enterprise Networks
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-nat64-deployment/

This document just ended the last-call, so if nothing is identified as really 
broken (apart from possible editorial nits), the IESG should pass it really 
soon to the RFC Editor for publication. I expect this becoming an RFC may be in 
1-2 months or so.

Note that I don't recommend anyone to deploy "only NAT64", the document clearly 
depicts the whys.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 1/7/19 20:11, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

Hi SM,

Responding from my own perspective, hopefully is useful.

I think "independent" is not easy to find, and is not related to a specific 
region.

But here are some "numbers" based on my own experience (from my customers 
networks, so independent on the sense of "not just one case").

This also follows numbers that other operators (not just my customers) have 
confirmed, for example in v6ops and other foras.

If you deploy CGN (so you want to stay with IPv4 artificially) instead of 
IPv6, you need CGN boxes to cover 100% of your traffic. Add to this the 
necessary IPv4 pools for each CGN box. The IPv4 pools will cost money when 
AFRINIC can't source those anymore.

If you deploy an IPv6-only with IPv4-as-a-Service (464XLAT, MAP-T/E, lw4o6, 
DS-Lite), because the IPv4-only traffic accounts only for the 24%, you only 
need 1/4 of the "equivalent" box to the CGNs (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.), and 
probably less than 1/4 of the IPv4 addresses.

So, I will bet that you can save in terms of IPv4 addresses and operator 
infrastructure, with a good knowledge and planning of what are you doing, up to 
75%. If your network is mainly residential, because the IPv6 availability in 
CDNs and caches is in those cases up to 85%, savings can be even bigger.

In addition to that, there are some advantages such as the opex savings. It 
is less expensive to manage IPv6-only with IPv4aaS across your network than 
pure dual-stack. May be not 50% savings, but still impacting a lot.

Some transition mechanisms make a more efficient use of the number of ports 
(and do not limit how many per customer), so consequently you even need less 
IPv4 addresses, this is for example the case, in my experience, of 464XLAT.

We have some considerations about this at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lmhp-v6ops-transition-comparison/
(new version coming in a matter of hours ... working on it already!)

And by the way, if you need to buy CPEs, please, make sure to ask for 
RFC8585 support if you want to be safe and save more money!

All this may be a bit different depending on the transition mechanism that 
you choose, and also depending on a broadband-only network, % of residential 
customers vs business ones (if they require pure dual-stack), cellular or a mix 
of all those. And of course, what quality of service (number of ports per 
customer in the CGN or alike) you want to "provide".

I know I'm not talking about USD here, because that depends a lot on many 
factors, case by case:
1) How much you pay for the CGN or alike (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.) boxes.
2) Do you need to replace the CPEs or you have got them already with IPv6 
support.
3) May be existing boxes in your network already do some of the CGN or 
alike (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.) functions.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 1/7/19 18:24, "S. Moonesamy"  escribió:

Dear Lee,
At 08:59 AM 28-06-2019, Lee Howard wrote:
>A company can save money on IPv4 addresses and CGN by deploying 
>IPv6. But it's too late to deploy IPv6 before Afrinic runs out of 
>addresses. Addresses will run out, and the market will not be able 
>to satisfy the need for addresses. ISPs and mobile carriers 
>everywhere in Africa will have to deploy CGN, and at higher density 
>than elsewhere in the world. The cost for businesses to connect will 
>be much higher, since they need inbound access and therefore unique 
>IPv4 addresses. African Internet deployment will stall, all because 
>IPv6 has not been deployed and there is no way to get more IPv4 
addresses.

Is there any independent study to show that a company in this service 
region can save money by deploying IPv6?

Regards,
S. Moonesamy 


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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi John,

 

Right, those are the points that most of the people is missing:
Citizens and Residents of the EU are protected, never mind the infringement is 
committed outside that territory. You may decide not to pay the fine, but then 
that person/organization will not be able to continue doing business with the 
EU persons/organizations, and even more, if you at some point come to the EU, 
you can get detained until you pay the fine.
Mauritius signed an agreement with the EU about GDPR, so all the Mauritius 
organizations are also bound (Afrinic in our case). The same happened with 
Uruguay (so it happens the same with LACNIC).
 

Further, there is no need for a citizen to file a complaint in the courts (of 
course it can be done and it can claim even damages).

 

The process is much simpler. Any citizen/resident can file a free complaint, 
even via a web site if you have a digital certificate or equivalent (or by 
postal mail if you don’t have it), to the Data Protection Agency (of any EU 
country or equivalent entity in countries that signed the agreement with the 
EU). I’ve done that myself (even before GDPR), already about 2.000 times in the 
last 5 years, and I can tell that it works (and the companies pay fines), so 
I’m not talking about “smoke”.

 

The point is that in many cases, the Data Protection Agencies will open the 
case automatically by themselves. Before GDPR the maximum fine (for almost 
equivalent data protection breaches and spam) was 600.000 euros. Now is 20 
million euros or up to 4% of the worldwide annual revenue of the prior 
financial year, whichever is higher.

 

So, just make sure that if you are managing phone numbers or emails from EU 
citizens, you comply with the GDPR, and don’t provide those data to “others” 
even to friends or colleagues, unless you have a previous and explicit consent 
from the owner.

 

One recent example (this week) about a big fine:

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20685830/british-airways-data-breach-fine-information-commissioners-office-gdpr

 

I just hope that Afrinic has already took sufficient measures to comply with 
GDPR. Those fines aren’t peanuts!

 

Right now, I just checked the privacy statement in the web site 
(https://afrinic.net/privacy). Sadly, I don’t think this is consistent with the 
latest GDPR (even for the Mauritius regulation).

 

The board meeting on 6th May 2018 talks about that and confirms that it will be 
resolved before 24th May 2018 (25th was the strict deadline). If that really 
happened, the web site doesn’t state that. Minutes from the April 2019 still 
keep talking about that, but nothing clear from my reading.

 

This needs to be corrected immediately, or Afrinic can be subjected to 
very high fines.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 10/7/19 9:51, "John Walu"  escribió:

 

@ Owen 

 

GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen specific 
rather than geo-specific.

 

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/

 

In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen data is 
automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach - irrespective 
of their geo-locality.

 

 Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually file 
a complaint in the EU Courts or not.  The second issue is whether the EU courts 
will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized entity will to 
pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of power. (nb:Facebook 
and Google have so far been paying up ;-)

 

Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR?

 

The simple answer is -  it depends. 

Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or process 
data that contains EU citizens?

 

If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR.

If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent 
that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face 
sanctions/penalties from EU courts.

 

Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection 
legislation on the continent and any data breach can actually be litigated 
locally (without the need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example 
it is determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic 
digital resources without consent from the data subjects).

 

walu.

 

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:



> On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Alan,
> 
> If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic 
> has to comply with GDPR.

Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with EU 
persons.

AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR.

Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but I 
don’t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was outside 
EU jurisdiction.


> I don't know if those emails

Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: AFRINIC-31 Meeting

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Well … the so-called “Benjamin” broke *several times* the code of conduct:

 

https://afrinic.net/code

 

So should be ban from the meeting (and the lists) and not only Benjamin, but 
also the real person behind him.

 

I’ve asked the staff/board to verify the information about who is behind 
Benjamin. This is possible and easy, you just need a policy claim to 
investigate the case asking Google to confirm if Benjamin is “x” and IP 
addresses (which in turn can be verified with the ISP). We had sufficient 
information to conduct such claim.

 

My understanding is that they objected to do so. This, in my opinion, is 
setting a very bad precedent: “You can ignore the code of conduct, because we 
aren’t going to ask for an investigation”.

 

The board is still in time to proceed with such claim. As much time passes, 
less chances to get the correlation of the IP addresses.

 

Otherwise, they will have NO RIGHT in the future, to enforce the code of 
conduct with other, because then the board can clearly be accused of 
discrimination: either you follow the code of conduct with all the same way, or 
you don’t use it at all and just trash it.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 17/11/19 21:42, "Andrew Alston"  escribió:

 

I would have a major problem with control over who attends the meetings.

 

To be frank – meetings are about the community, and if we start deciding who 
can and who can’t attend the meetings – beyond the scope of a code of conduct – 
it’s a dangerous and slippery slope from there.   I mean – I believe we are 
feel to name, shame and shun those who behave in bad behavior at meetings if we 
as individuals do not like their behavior – but I do not believe we should 
prevent attendance.  

 

In the same way – I would not advocate for banning someone like Marcus from the 
meeting who used fake accounts to spew racist garbage on the lists.  I would 
advocate from banning them from the lists, and  I would fully support a public 
shaming and humiliation on the floor of the meeting so they get the idea this 
is a *BAD* idea in future, but – let them come to the meeting and face the 
consequences of their actions

 

Andrew

 

 

From: Mark Tinka 
Date: Sunday, 17 November 2019 at 13:44
To: Andrew Alston , 
"community-discuss@afrinic.net" 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: AFRINIC-31 Meeting

 

Thanks, Andrew.

Makes sense to me, but only if both the brokers and the interested RIR members 
abide by these rules.

What I see more likely happening is either side finds this opt-in/out 
ineffective. If we somehow block the spamming and can control who attends the 
meetings, they'll just sidebar all their meetings in and around the conference 
venue, which we definitely cannot control.

So for me, making sure the community fully understands this at an intellectual, 
commercial (and if possible, legal) level is our best defence at making sure 
nobody is duped into doing something they don't understand or don't really want 
to do.

Mark.

On 17/Nov/19 10:41, Andrew Alston wrote:

Personally I have another take on this -

 

I do not agree with spam - or harvesting emails - period - so will start there.

 

I do however think that it may be worth considering an opt in/opt out list for 
attendees of AfriNIC meetings where people who wish to promote services or give 
general information about what they are doing etc may be worth having.

 

This creates a situation where it avoids to the spam, it’s opt in so people who 
do want to see services on offer by attendees have the option of subscribing, 
and it lets the community market their services to each other.  I would have no 
issue with the existence of such a list.

 

Just a thought

 

Andrew 

 

 

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Mark Tinka 
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2019 4:32:27 PM
To: community-discuss@afrinic.net 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: AFRINIC-31 Meeting 

 

I'm not sure stopping them from attending is possible, as that can be easily 
forged.

I'm also not sure preventing them from reaching out to the community for their 
business is also feasible.

The only real defence that I see is equipping the community with sufficient 
knowledge about this so folk are not easily swayed by the glorious promises of 
engaging with them.

Mark.

On 16/Nov/19 17:20, Sami Salih wrote:

 

if we all agreed that the reasons they want to attend AFRINIC is not welcoming, 
can we be more proactive and stop them from attending or at least stop them 
from conveying the message to the community ?  

 

 

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 

From: Owen DeLong 
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:02 AM
To: Badru Ntege 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; 
members-disc...@afrinic.net 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: AFRINIC-31 Meeting 

 

The best solution is simply to make sure to avoid doing business with them. 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: AFRINIC-31 Meeting

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I don’t think this will be acceptable.

 

We like it or not we should not ban anyone to come to the meetings, unless they 
violate code of conduct or anything similar that we have for the meetings. Of 
course, unless in our code of conduct we state explicitly that anyone using the 
whois or collecting emails from the lists will be ban to participate in the 
meetings.

 

Of course, what it can be done, but this is up to individual decision of each 
AFRINIC meeting participant is to tell them “sorry, you’re a spammer and 
violate people privacy collecting their emails, I’m not doing to talk to you, 
go away from me”. Be sure that I will do that, if they approach me!

 

That said, I’m completely against SPAM, and collecting emails. There is no 
*any* valid reason you can use emails even if they are in whois, or whatever, 
for marketing. That’s spam.

 

In the case of EU citizens or residents, if I get any of those marketing 
emails, you can make sure that will open a case in the Data Protection Agency, 
and it typically means a fine of up to 20.000.000 Euros. This apply also to 
some countries that signed the GDPR, such as Mauritius. In the last few years 
(even before GDPR, as we had a similar framework, with fines of up to 600.000 
Euros), I’ve initiated about 2.000 claims, so I know very well how easy (and 
online with a digital certificate) is to do that. As a consequence they will 
get their compliance with the GDPR checked and a fine according to the level of 
lack of compliance and the actions against GDPR that they have done (such as 
collecting emails without an explicit authorization of the owner, or sending 
spam without an explicit consent).

 

I don’t know if other countries from AFRINIC service region also signed it, but 
even if not, there may be specific regulations protecting your privacy or 
against spam, in each country.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 16/11/19 23:26, "Sami Salih"  escribió:

 

 

if we all agreed that the reasons they want to attend AFRINIC is not welcoming, 
can we be more proactive and stop them from attending or at least stop them 
from conveying the message to the community ?  

 

 

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 

From: Owen DeLong 
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:02 AM
To: Badru Ntege 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; 
members-disc...@afrinic.net 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: AFRINIC-31 Meeting 

 

The best solution is simply to make sure to avoid doing business with them. 
Eventually they get the hint, especially if you tell them flat out that you 
don’t do business with spammers. 

 

Owen

 



On Nov 15, 2019, at 09:49 , Badru Ntege  wrote:

 

I agree with you on the bad taste.  

 

Have many words to add but time to breathe in and out and constrain oneself 

 

Sent from my iPhone


On 15 Nov 2019, at 12:26, Mark Tinka  wrote:

Not sure if anyone else has received these... 

I am probably old school, but these kinds of things leave a bad taste in my 
mouth.

Mark.


 Forwarded Message  

Subject: AFRINIC-31 Meeting
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 09:18:52 +
From: Lena AFRINIC 
To: mark.ti...@seacom.mu




Greetings,

 

Hope this email finds you well!

I'm representing IPv4 Services, a registered broker in RIPE, ARIN and APNIC. We 
are attending at AFRINIC 31 in Luanda, Angola, and would be a pleasure to meet 
people that are open to a potential collaboration regarding IPv4 resources.

We are planning to establish new connections and find AFRINIC based business 
partners for selling/leasing/purchase of IPv4 addresses.

NOTE - if you are interested please feel free to contact me with any questions.

 

See you at the event.

 

--

Kind regards,

Elena Dontu

 

lena.ipv4 (Skype)

LenaIPv4 (WeChat)

+37360820413 (WhatsApp)

web: ipv4services.com 

 

You received this email because you subscribed at Ripe Training Courses

Отписаться

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC legacy space ownership manipulation

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

+1

 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 5/11/19 8:16, "Adewole Ajao"  escribió:

 

Makes sense. Especially on operational and PR issues such as this. Letting the 
CEO communicate will also reduce the sense of non-responsiveness that members 
sometimes feel (although it's unavoidable because the board has to convene and 
agree before any response can be given - even on simple issues whereas the CEO 
will be able to respond authoritatively to a large extent on behalf of AFRINIC 
the company).

 

Dewole.

 

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 8:00 AM Mark Tinka  wrote:

Don't know if it's just me, but curious why this update (and the investigations 
associated with it) are not coming from our CEO.

I've consistently said that I feel the AFRINIC Board are too involved in 
AFRINIC's day-to-day affairs, which, IMHO, need to be managed by the AFRINIC 
CEO and his team, both in front of and behind the scenes.

I am somewhat disturbed that this culture does not appear to have changed even 
on the back of the appointment of the new CEO.

Personally, I'd rather be hearing from the CEO and/or any of his staff, than 
the Board.

Mark.

On 4/Nov/19 22:45, Bope Domilongo Christian wrote:

Dear Community at large,

As the community may also, be aware, AFRINIC has attracted some media coverage 
relating to suspicious activity in its WHOIS database primarily a limited 
section of legacy resources. 

 


On behalf of the Board, I would like to assure both the AFRINIC membership and 
the Internet community at large that the Board has conducted some preliminary 
assessment of the matter, and would like to let you know that investigations 
are progressing well and will be concluded soon, most likely before or by the 
end of the year. We cannot reveal much or go into further details at this stage 
as we do not want to jeopardise the investigations. However, you can rest 
assured that we will get to the bottom of the matter. At the same time, we want 
to ensure that the rights of any affected parties are respected and protected 
as per the law. All said we are keen to ensure the interests of AFRINIC members 
are safeguarded as we seek to maintain stable, reliable and effective 
management of Internet resources. Besides, the AFRINIC WHOIS database remains 
fully operational with high standards of integrity. 

 

Nevertheless, there is always room for improvement and AFRINIC operations team 
is currently reviewing some of the long-established processes relating to the 
management of Internet resources under AFRINIC's ambit. The team is already 
implementing some improvement measures at both the IT Infrastructure and 
process level. As usual, the AFRINIC membership will be appropriately apprised 
of the developments.

Best regards, 
Dr Christian D. Bope
Chairman, AFRINIC Board of Directors

 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC-31 Meeting

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I don’t think so, you need to arrange it in advance, unless your country has 
some explicit waiver with Angola.

 

I suggest the on-line system.

 

I tried the local consulate in Madrid, and was almost impossible, but the 
online system worked very well and very fast.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 19/11/19 1:32, "Ndanga brice"  escribió:

 

Could someone tell me if l could get the visa for Afrinic 31 once arrive at the 
airport of Angola?  Otherwise what should l do?

 

Le dim. 17 nov. 2019 à 17:58, Mark Tinka  a écrit :

I'm not sure having a meeting-specific mailing list helps here, because it 
assumes that attendees will always register.

Brokers (and in particular, brokers who spam) can't be guaranteed to register, 
or more specifically, follow the rules. They could just show up as regular 
hotel guests, not register for the conference, and reach out to AFRINIC members 
like they did me and many others, to organize sidebar meetings, cocktails, 
dinners, e.t.c. This, I believe, is far more likely than anything else 
above-board.

So the best defence is to equip the membership to not get caught up in this 
whirlwind, should they be called to the side by the brokers.

Mark.

On 17/Nov/19 17:05, Augustine CHII Ngek wrote:

+1 Nishal 

We can simply go back to that tradition and see how it helps us in this present 
circumstances.

Augustine CHII NGEK

 

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019, 13:50 Nishal Goburdhan,  wrote:

On 17 Nov 2019, at 13:09, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
wrote:

> I don’t think AFRINIC publishes an attendee list, an even less with 
> contact emails, so not sure how that will work.
> At least, I just looked at the website (and recent events websites) 
> and couldn’t find it.

many years ago, there were meeting-specific mailing lists, so that 
meeting attendees could share taxi rides, find dinner partners, or 
jogging trails, .. etc.  without spamming regular mailing lists.  if you 
weren’t registered for the specific meeting (and presumably onsite) 
you were saved from the span of “where is a nice place to .. “ type 
messages, which were only really contextually useful for meeting 
attendees.  the lists were killed shortly after the meeting.

that process was unfortunately discontinued.

-n.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Sunday, all,

 

I’ve been in “internal conflict” myself, since I read the article. Let me tell 
why.

 

I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first 
AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after, during 
an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to the AFRINIC 
community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his trips to do the 
Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.

 

Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I was 
deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid Nigerian 
consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could resolve that on 
the next day and flight again to do the training.

 

My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that, and 
since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I’ve been doing those 
trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take advantage 
of that.

 

The relevance of that is clear. I’d a close relation with Ernest (as well as 
with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together, you get 
to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of course, you 
may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As humans, we all 
have positive and negative things. But I’m really shocked, I still resist to 
believe it.

 

I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position of a 
smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your own 
name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,  may be a 
friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in any documents? I 
feel this is really silly and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, 
which doesn’t mean he is still guilty “in vigilando” because he trusted anyone 
else, or something similar.

 

Do we believe in “presumption of innocence”? I do, despite documents. If you 
don’t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.

 

So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and may 
be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement an 
all this.

 

Note that I’m not here defending anyone. I’ve no any personal interest. My only 
interest is to know the *real true* and I’m sure everybody agrees on that.

 

Note also that I’ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no doubt 
about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very thankful for that.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan"  escribió:

 

It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest that 
the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy space.

The community has been informed that there is already some internal 
investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done. I 
equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established, the law 
should take its course and people should stand accountable for their deeds.

I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund organizations' 
IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 years, and it took 
this level of cross-border investigations to discover the manipulations. If the 
resources are indeed not needed or in active use, why would or should they not 
have been returned to the Registry for the common good?

For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal 
department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.

While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of the 
entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with the 
assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather apply its 
mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for developing the 
continent. That will be a better use of our time and intellect.

Sunday. 

 

On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have 
been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space. 

 

I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not 
deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

 

It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that 
should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to 
the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open 
to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the 
desired outcome. 

 

Mike



On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka  wrote:

 

Completely agree with Sunday.

Mark.

On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on 
spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing 
legacy spaces 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] AIS 2020 - POSTPONEMENT

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Nancy, all,

 

If I understand correctly, it means also the AFRINIC meeting part will not take 
place.

 

Some of us book the flights quite early, from our own pockets, and to make them 
cheap they are non-refundable.

 

Due to the circumstances of the Covid19, the airlines are offering free changes 
but only if the destination country is blocking the participants or not 
allowing meetings, which at the moment don’t seems to be the case, and in some 
cases ONLY changes, not refunding.

 

Furthermore, if they allow ONLY changes, we need to indicate the dates for the 
change and must be in the next 12 months, typically.

 

So, it is EXTREMELY URGENT to either, cancel the meeting, or announce 
immediately the new dates (and the city if is not the same).

 

Otherwise we will be in a situation of not only wasting our time but also our 
money.

 

I will suggest, as other RIRs and the IETF has done, to definitively cancel the 
meeting, due to the uncertainty of the situation and doing it online.

 

Changing the dates not only means possible conflicts with other events, but 
also that people that must participate in certain sessions (example Policy 
meeting), not being able to be there even remotely.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 18/3/20 16:58, "afnog en nombre de nancy dotse"  escribió:

 

Dear All,

Good afternoon.

On 16 March 2020, AfNOG, AFRINIC and the Local Host (ISPA-DRC) had another 
meeting to re-assess the Corona Virus pandemic as well as logistic issues.

Unfortunately we concluded that a change of plans was mandatory to safeguard 
the health of our members, community and staff. 

Thus, we agreed that it is best to postpone the AIS 2020  Workshop & Conference 
to a later date. We will continue to monitor the situation and adopt 
precautionary measures to ensure everyone’s well-being.

Further, we will communicate  decisions taken in consultation with all 
stakeholders, and will advise on new AIS 2020 dates and

the way forward in due course.

Please stay safe.

Kind regards

Nancy

AfNOG

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] AIS 2020 - POSTPONEMENT

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Owen,

 

I can tell you that notices like this for LACNIC or IETF aren’t working the 
same with all the airlines …

 

Iberia refunded me some tickets. BA not yet (it seems now I may get a refund 
now because Iberia cancelled one of the legs).

 

However, Iberia can’t refund neither waive the cancellation/change fees for my 
LACNIC flight because it is for May and the coverage is only until a previous 
date.

 

For Kinshasa, Royal Air Maroc when I looked for this once I saw the email, was 
not allowing anything for flights in June.

 

Of course, the situation for all the airlines is changing quickly, but also 
knowing if it is a canceled meeting or postponed meeting helps to take a 
decision about changing (and sometimes it can be done at a later date) or 
refunding (which means that if you buy it later in a closer date to the 
meeting, it will become more expensive, most probably).

 

If the meeting is canceled, a voucher for 1 year doesn’t work for all, the 
destination may be covered by a different airline, or the 1 year may be from 
the voucher date, etc. Iberia for example only provides vouchers valid to be 
used until end of 2020 and excludes “vacations” periods.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 18/3/20 19:21, "Owen DeLong"  escribió:

 

This notice would be enough for most airlines (at least in the US).

 

In most cases, you can work with the airline and receive at least the following:

 

    1.    Change fees waived.

    2.    Ticket value is placed on file as a credit to be 
used to purchase a future flight.

    3.    Purchase must be made within one year or credit 
expires.

 

Owen

 



On Mar 18, 2020, at 11:14 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:

 

Hi Nancy, all,

 

If I understand correctly, it means also the AFRINIC meeting part will not take 
place.

 

Some of us book the flights quite early, from our own pockets, and to make them 
cheap they are non-refundable.

 

Due to the circumstances of the Covid19, the airlines are offering free changes 
but only if the destination country is blocking the participants or not 
allowing meetings, which at the moment don’t seems to be the case, and in some 
cases ONLY changes, not refunding.

 

Furthermore, if they allow ONLY changes, we need to indicate the dates for the 
change and must be in the next 12 months, typically.

 

So, it is EXTREMELY URGENT to either, cancel the meeting, or announce 
immediately the new dates (and the city if is not the same).

 

Otherwise we will be in a situation of not only wasting our time but also our 
money.

 

I will suggest, as other RIRs and the IETF has done, to definitively cancel the 
meeting, due to the uncertainty of the situation and doing it online.

 

Changing the dates not only means possible conflicts with other events, but 
also that people that must participate in certain sessions (example Policy 
meeting), not being able to be there even remotely.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 18/3/20 16:58, "afnog en nombre de nancy dotse"  escribió:

 

Dear All,

Good afternoon.

On 16 March 2020, AfNOG, AFRINIC and the Local Host (ISPA-DRC) had another 
meeting to re-assess the Corona Virus pandemic as well as logistic issues.

Unfortunately we concluded that a change of plans was mandatory to safeguard 
the health of our members, community and staff. 

Thus, we agreed that it is best to postpone the AIS 2020  Workshop & Conference 
to a later date. We will continue to monitor the situation and adopt 
precautionary measures to ensure everyone’s well-being.

Further, we will communicate  decisions taken in consultation with all 
stakeholders, and will advise on new AIS 2020 dates and

the way forward in due course.

Please stay safe.

Kind regards

Nancy

AfNOG

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Proposition d’inscrire un point sur le multilinguisme dans les Statuts d'AFRINIC

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I’ve never counted the % of messages in Spanish, Portuguese and English in 
LACNIC lists, but my guess is that it is about 60% Spanish, 30% Portuguese and 
10% English.

 

However, I have noticed, that this merge of languages is usually negative, 
because most of the misunderstandings, for example in policy proposals, comes 
from the translations.

 

So even if I acknowledge that all the languages should be supported and 
allowed, it is at the same time dangerous and counterproductive. We need to be 
aware of that.

 

Even if English is not my native language and I know that I do many mistakes, I 
still prefer to use it and I think it makes sense, for everyone, that in a list 
of technical people should have a sufficient level of English, to use the same 
language.

 

Again, I’m not trying to discourage using any language.

 

Let’s suppose that I do my policy proposals and discussions about them in 
Spanish or even better Catalonian. Just trying to show my point!

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 10/3/20 23:16, "Owen DeLong"  escribió:

 

While LACNIC does communicate in multiple languages for 
LACNIC->Member/Community purposes, I will point out that virtually all 
discussion

on the LACNIC policy list is conducted in Spanish.

 

Owen

 



On Mar 7, 2020, at 23:38 , Arnaud AMELINA  wrote:

 

Hello Sunday,

 

We could, based on tools, allow everyone to post and write official documents 
including policy proposals in their preferred  language. Could easily become 
chaotic 

 

Afrinic has been communicating in Arabic, English and French  and it is worth 
supporting these efforts  toward a full and complete communication and 
documentation in these languages.

 

Lacnic  does  communicate  in multiple languages 

 https://politicas.lacnic.net/politicas/list

 

Let us concretize  this  minimum of the expression of our diversity which 
promotes more inclusion.

 

--

Arnaud 

 

Le ven. 6 mars 2020 à 06:11, Sunday Folayan  a écrit :

Babban 'yan Afirka,

Idan da gaske muna buƙatar isa ga mafi yawan usingan Afirka ta amfani da 
Harsuna, to muna buƙatar komawa zuwa manyan manyan yarukan da ake magana da 
Afirka, kuma sakamakon zai zama mai ban sha'awa. Harsuna kamar Swahili da Hausa 
za su fito, ba masu yin yanzu ba.

Sa'ar al'amarin shine, akwai kayan aikin fassara masu amfani yanzu, kuma na 
tabbata kunyi amfani da daya don karanta wannan sakon. Ya kamata mu mai da 
hankali ga haɓaka kayan aiki masu amfani da hankali, maimakon ƙananan yakarmu 
waɗanda ba sa ƙaruwa da ilimi.

Mai da hankali kan ayyukan AfriNIC da Yaren ma'aikata, kuma African Afirka na 
gaba za su yaba da ƙoƙarin da kuke yi. Wannan ita ce hanya.

Barka da safe 

 

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 8:14 PM Etienne TSHISHIMBI  wrote:

Bonsoir Kossi et à tous,

 

Voici ce que je disais " Nous désirons parvenir à faire la promotion d'un 
multilinguisme effectif dans toutes les procédures, dans tous les processus et 
dans tous les documents d’AFRINIC."

 

Toi tu dis :

 

Je pense que nous devons simplement demander à Afrinic de veiller à la 
traduction de tous les documents à soumettre à la communauté dans les langues 
officielles de l'Union Africaine avant de les rendre public; cela évitera la 
suprématie d'une langue sur les autres. 

 

Et moi j'ai dit :

 

AFRINIC doit favoriser une multipolarité linguistique construite autour de 
quelques grandes langues de communication continentale 

 

Je ne vois pas de contradiction. Toi tu l'appelles langues officielles de 
l'Union Africaine et moi "quelques grandes langues de communication 
continentale."

 

Dans le soucis que notre écosystème numérique reflète notre diversité 
culturelle et linguistique, nous faisons cet appel à AFRINIC.

 

Le jeu. 5 mars 2020 à 14:34, Kossi Amessinou  a écrit 
:

Bonsoir Etienne et à tous,

Nous avons besoin de faire des choix et d'avancer dans l'écosystème de 
l'internet. Le défi de la traduction des contenus est présent dans tous les 
débats au niveau global. Je pense que nous devons simplement demander à Afrinic 
de veiller à la traduction de tous les documents à soumettre à la communauté 
dans les langues officielles de l'Union Africaine avant de les rendre public; 
cela évitera la suprématie d'une langue sur les autres. Dans les activités en 
ligne, les rencontres doivent continuer à se faire par groupe linguistique au 
bénéfice de tous. Nous n'aurons jamais une langue mondiale pour des raisons 
géostratégiques et politiques. Nous sommes riches de notre diversité dans 
l'écosystème global du numérique en Afrique. Quand on finira par obtenir la 
présence des langues officielles des pays sur la toile avec des contenus 
hébergés en Afrique, nous pourrons ensuite penser à la présence des langues 
locales africaines en ligne, du moins en version audiovisuel. Cordialement.

 

Le jeu. 5 mars 2020 à 13:31, Etienne TSHISHIMBI  a écrit :

Bonsoir à tous,

 

La façon de faire d’AFRINIC nous inciter à réfléchir, à agir et à réagir. Je 
voudrai dire qu'on 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Andrew,

 

I was not speaking referring to *any* of those specific block holders, because 
even if I read the article some months ago with all the history, I don’t recall 
if there was sufficient information for each one, if they were all legacy or 
not, etc. I’m talking in general.

 

Just saying that we should have that information publicly available from 
AFRINIC, not articles, as a matter of transparency, and that those questions 
are the ones to be responded.

 

You’re right that legacy holders aren’t bound to our policies, unless they have 
obtained other resources and signed the RSA, but again, I was talking in 
general without stating or even knowing if those resources are/aren’t legacy.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 20/8/20 10:58, "Andrew Alston"  escribió:

 

Hi Jordi,

 

So, again you’re making suppositions.

 

Firstly – you are assuming that the people who had their space transferred out 
from under them would have received any notification whatsoever if this was a 
database modification – there is no guarantee of that.

Secondly – you are neglecting the fact that legacy resources are not bound by 
the same policies and rules and never have been.  The logic in this is pretty 
simple really.  Legacy resources were transferred into AfriNIC from other 
RIR’s.  This was done without the willing consent of the holders of said space, 
and therefore, at least my understanding of this is, you cannot impose the 
rules of a new organization on someone who had their space transferred to 
AfriNIC without their willing agreement.  To do so would almost certainly be 
open to challenge, since you are binding someone to a contract that they never 
agreed to be bound to.

 

Hence – if the space is legacy – and they chose not to update the database – no 
they are NOT in violation – because the rules are different when it comes to 
this space.  

 

Andrew

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 
Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2020 11:50
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

 

Hi Andrew,

 

May be an English nit, but in Spanish when I say “involved” in this context, it 
means “those that participated in the illegal/against the CPM action”.

 

 

The CPM and RSA allows the board for those “involved” to cancel the account. No 
need for waiting for any courts decision. I understand this is what has been 
done, I was just wondering if we were in case 1, 2, or 3. I think it will be 
good to know and this is not information that need to be hidden until the court 
decision, the community has the right to know that *now*, as it can help to 
clarify if we need better policies, or whatever, to avoid that in the future.

 

I understand that some resources may have been transferred without the 
knowledge of the legitimate holders. However, if you’re a holder and you didn’t 
realized that, it means that you’re not updating your records? It means that 
you’re not using those resources? Is not all that also against the CPM/RSA?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 20/8/20 10:35, "Andrew Alston"  escribió:

 

Jordi,

 

“All the involved resource-holders should lose their rights”

 

This assumes that the resource-holders who have legitimate rights to the IP 
space had any awareness of the transfers – which in this case is not reality – 
the transfers were illegitimate the IP space was stolen from the resource 
holders.  So – what you are proposing is to penalize those who had resources 
stolen from them without their consent or knowledge.

 

I point out that it has already been public acknowledgement over the fact that 
there are criminal proceedings on going against a former member of staff who 
was allegedly involved in the theft of these resources – please – lets not fan 
the flames by making inflammatory suggestions that don’t take into account all 
of the facts as currently known.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 
Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2020 09:44
To: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

 

I've some points here:

1) Were those transfers done following the Intra-RIR policy? Or it happened 
before that policy existed?
2) Were those transfers inter-RIR?
3) In any case, were those transfers authorized by the staff (according to the 
CPM)?

If any of those questions indicate that the CPM has not been followed, all 
those resources should be claimed back and the involved resource-holders should 
lose their rights and the membership account closed, right?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 19/8/20 23:04, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

For those few of you who may not already be aware of this...

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/363694-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-sues-afrinic.html

As many of you might imagine, I will have more to say about this

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Andrew,

 

May be an English nit, but in Spanish when I say “involved” in this context, it 
means “those that participated in the illegal/against the CPM action”.

 

 

The CPM and RSA allows the board for those “involved” to cancel the account. No 
need for waiting for any courts decision. I understand this is what has been 
done, I was just wondering if we were in case 1, 2, or 3. I think it will be 
good to know and this is not information that need to be hidden until the court 
decision, the community has the right to know that *now*, as it can help to 
clarify if we need better policies, or whatever, to avoid that in the future.

 

I understand that some resources may have been transferred without the 
knowledge of the legitimate holders. However, if you’re a holder and you didn’t 
realized that, it means that you’re not updating your records? It means that 
you’re not using those resources? Is not all that also against the CPM/RSA?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 20/8/20 10:35, "Andrew Alston"  escribió:

 

Jordi,

 

“All the involved resource-holders should lose their rights”

 

This assumes that the resource-holders who have legitimate rights to the IP 
space had any awareness of the transfers – which in this case is not reality – 
the transfers were illegitimate the IP space was stolen from the resource 
holders.  So – what you are proposing is to penalize those who had resources 
stolen from them without their consent or knowledge.

 

I point out that it has already been public acknowledgement over the fact that 
there are criminal proceedings on going against a former member of staff who 
was allegedly involved in the theft of these resources – please – lets not fan 
the flames by making inflammatory suggestions that don’t take into account all 
of the facts as currently known.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 
Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2020 09:44
To: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

 

I've some points here:

1) Were those transfers done following the Intra-RIR policy? Or it happened 
before that policy existed?
2) Were those transfers inter-RIR?
3) In any case, were those transfers authorized by the staff (according to the 
CPM)?

If any of those questions indicate that the CPM has not been followed, all 
those resources should be claimed back and the involved resource-holders should 
lose their rights and the membership account closed, right?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 19/8/20 23:04, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

For those few of you who may not already be aware of this...

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/363694-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-sues-afrinic.html

As many of you might imagine, I will have more to say about this in due
course.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Tks!

However, unless I got it wrong, and again, talking in general, when legacy 
resource-holders sign the RSA they are bound to it as well (never mind if 
you're are the source or the destination of the transfer).

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 20/8/20 12:10, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message , 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  wrote:

>1) Were those transfers done following the Intra-RIR policy?

No. These are all ancient "legacy" allocations.  The allocations were
awarded even before ARIN existed, let alone AFRINIC, which came along
many years after ARIN.

Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I don’t know if that has been done, but my guess is that after the data lost, 
AFRINIC should have taken actions to ask the resources-holders to re-submit 
copies of the documents if they want to keep the resources or services or even 
keep participating in member processes (even mailings lists).

 

(of course, if they only had legacy resources is not the case, but maybe they 
want to keep some services anyway …)

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 20/8/20 12:38, "Andrew Alston"  escribió:

 

And this gets even more complicated.

 

Please remember that all attachments to all tickets  pre a certain date at 
AfriNIC were lost in a data corruption incident, hence – if most of these 
organizations ever signed an RSA – AfriNIC almost certainly doesn’t have it.  
Also – when these transfers were initially done – no one asked the people who 
had the space transferred in to sign the RSA at that point that I know of, so 
if they DID sign it at the time of the inbound transfer, it’s probably gone, 
but chances are – they never did

 

It’s actually an interesting situation – since a vast amount of application 
data is also missing – and so the clauses in the RSA that state that you must 
use the space as applied for – well – who’s to know what the space was applied 
for – or the justifications given – the data for a ton of these applications is 
missing – gone forever.

 

Andrew

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 
Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2020 13:14
To: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

 

Tks!

However, unless I got it wrong, and again, talking in general, when legacy 
resource-holders sign the RSA they are bound to it as well (never mind if 
you're are the source or the destination of the transfer).

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 20/8/20 12:10, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message , 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  wrote:

>1) Were those transfers done following the Intra-RIR policy?

No. These are all ancient "legacy" allocations. The allocations were
awarded even before ARIN existed, let alone AFRINIC, which came along
many years after ARIN.

Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I've some points here:

1) Were those transfers done following the Intra-RIR policy? Or it happened 
before that policy existed?
2) Were those transfers inter-RIR?
3) In any case, were those transfers authorized by the staff (according to the 
CPM)?

If any of those questions indicate that the CPM has not been followed, all 
those resources should be claimed back and the involved resource-holders should 
lose their rights and the membership account closed, right?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 19/8/20 23:04, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

For those few of you who may not already be aware of this...


https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/363694-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-sues-afrinic.html

As many of you might imagine, I will have more to say about this in due
course.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Table of changes: AFRINIC Bylaw review

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Abdalla, all,

I've a few inputs:

1) I think the definition of end-site should be amended.

An entity, corporation or individual can have multiple end-sites. Just think in 
a bank. They will have a main office, maybe a backup “main-office” or DC for 
disaster recovery and many branch offices. Each office or “location” is an 
“end-site location” which may be able to get resources. In some situations, 
those resources will be aggregated in a single prefix, but this is not always 
the case. So, the definition should be able to accommodate it.

I will propose this change.

Actual:
Any entity, corporate or individual that receive services (Number Resources 
assignments) directly from AFRINIC for exclusive use on its own service 
infrastructure.

New:
Any location from an entity, corporate or individual that receive services 
(Number Resources assignments) directly from AFRINIC for exclusive use on its 
own service infrastructure.

Coincidently, a few months ago, I proposed a policy change in RIPE, which 
reached consensus and has been already implemented, and we have adjusted the 
text in the same direction.

2) The definition of Internet Community is also wrong in my opinion. It is 
globally used "Internet Community" to refer to the "worldwide Internet 
Community". Otherwise it contradicts many other documents and may restrict 
participation, for example in the PDP and will be against ICANN ICP-2.

So, it should be:

Any person or organization interested in the Internet Number resource 
Management.

I understand that term needs to be restricted for some of the legal provisions, 
and in the bylaws, this is already done. For example, 3.4.(ii) already cites 
"Internet community of the African region". In 9, it indicates "from the 
African Internet Community" and in 9.3(i)a) "from the African Internet 
Community". 

3) 11.2 should be amended, to avoid contradiction with the PDP, that talks 
about bi-annual meetings. I think it could be written to keep it open for 
whatever number of meetings.

Actual:
11.2 The Board shall call a Public Policy Meeting at least once a year as per 
requirements defined in the Policy development Process. Public Policy Meeting 
may be attended by:

New:
11.2 The Board shall call for Public Policy Meeting as per requirements defined 
in the Policy development Process. Public Policy Meeting may be attended by:


4) Finally, 11.3 should be amended ...

Actual:
11.3 For the purpose of subsection 11.2 a Public Policy Meeting means a meeting 
open to the community wherein proposals for policies for a proper and 
responsible usage and Management of Internet number resources are discussed and 
agreed within the framework of the Policy Development Process (PDP) defined by 
the Regional Internet community and ratified by the Board.

New:
11.3 For the purpose of subsection 11.2 a Public Policy Meeting means a meeting 
open to the community wherein proposals for policies for a proper and 
responsible usage and Management of Internet number resources are discussed and 
agreed within the framework of the Policy Development Process (PDP) defined by 
the Internet community and ratified by the Board.

Otherwise it contradicts 11.2, ICANN ICP-2 and the PDP.



Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 12/8/20 16:09, "AFRINIC Communication"  escribió:

[French, Arabic and Portuguese versions below]

Dear Members and Community,

The GovCom was mandated to, inter alia, review the existing provisions of the 
AFRINIC Bylaws and to propose such amendments, where necessary.

In this context, the GovCom had previously called for comments as well as 
proposals for amendments from various stakeholders, including the Community. 

Consequently, after analysing all input received from its stakeholders, the 
GovCom hereby presents to the Community a draft table 
(https://afrinic.net/ast/afrinic-bylaw-table-changes-20200812-en1.pdf) 
containing its proposed amendments to the existing Bylaws with the rationale 
added thereto.

The GovCom therefore invites the Community to take cognisance of the aforesaid 
proposed amendments as well as to submit to the Secretariat 
(gov...@afrinic.net) any further comment(s) before the final document is 
produced. However, please note that the present publication is not an 
invitation for new proposed amendments. This is an opportunity for the 
Community to comment on the amendments being proposed. 

The GovCom wishes to thank the Community once again for its valuable 
contribution in its review of the Bylaws and looks forward to continuous 
beneficial engagement.

Regards,
Abdalla Omari
Chair, Governance Committee



Chers membres et communauté,

Le GovCom a été chargé, entre autres, de revoir les dispositions existantes des 
statuts de l'AFRINIC et de proposer des modifications, le cas échéant.

Dans ce contexte, le comité avait précédemment demandé à diverses parties 
prenantes, dont la Communauté, de formuler des commentaires et 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for Comments on the AFRINIC Mailing Lists Terms of Use

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Ashil, all,

 

I’ve several issues here:

 
The AUP (Acceptable Usage Policy) of the RPD mailing list can only be developed 
as a policy, following the PDP. This is a community task and not any committee 
or board or anything like that.
I’m not convinced, in legal terms, if you can enforce “AFRINIC” privacy policy 
to subscribers outside of Mauritius. I don’t see either, the benefit of that, 
as I just re-read the privacy policy and only affects the AFRINIC obligations, 
not the “users”.
While I will love the idea of everybody using their real name and email when 
contributing to mailing list, I think that breaks many aspects related to the 
way we work in the RIR communities and asking for that will be against 
bottom-up and openness concepts. We have discussed this many times. The 
community is composed by individuals, not organizations. However, the 
participants often work for organizations related to the Internet sectors. That 
means that if we make mandatory every poster to use their real name:
Maybe his/her “everybody life name” is not available for registration in free 
mail servers, so you discriminate them.
Maybe his/her personal opinions are contradictory with the ones from the 
organization is employing him. So, either he/she is exposed to being fired if 
express his personal view in the list, or we are not anymore open and acting 
against freedom of expression, as we are not allowing him to express freely in 
the lists.
A is easily solvable with a different wording in point 3 of the Mailings lists 
terms of use (for example, the signature must include the same name being used 
in everyday life), but B is not.

An alternative, which also requires a clearer wording for point 3, is that 
AFRINIC will verify every subscriber, without publicly disclosing that date, 
and for that, the subscription process will request the real name (never 
disclosed), and some kind of ID. Those subscribers that for employee reasons 
need to be registered twice (with different emails), will need to identify 
themselves and their employer, and if the mailing list is used for elections 
(as it happened last time), they will only be able to vote once. Further to 
that, when they change work, they will need to notify it, to avoid anyone 
taking his email without proper identification (a new employee, etc., which 
will be point 5 on your terms of use). Can you see how complex is all this?
The above point also requires modification of point 3 in the terms of use.
You’re missing explicit mention of publication of conference information, Call 
for Papers, etc. In all the RIRs, in general it is outside of the scope of the 
RIR mailing lists, at least most of them.
Similarly, you’re missing electoral information. It is ok to publish 
information for/against any election’s candidates? Or only in some mailing 
lists and which ones?
 

Clearly this requires a more extensive work and being more specific about which 
mailing lists, because as said, not all them are the same.

 

Regarding my input number 3 above. If we are talking about the policy mailing 
list, I know by facts, that some of the opinions and objections to my own 
policy proposals, have been made by puppets (which will be against point 9 of 
the mailing list terms of use) and others have been made by trolls, so in other 
words, looking for manipulation of the PDP and business interest, instead of 
individuals, which is against the PDP as is solely community based.

 

Despite that, I still think that enforcing the participants to use “publicly” 
their own name will be against the full concept of the PDP and Internet open 
community.

 

And once more, if AFRINIC can find a way that allow to identify people, but 
then they can use either their real name or an alias (so to avoid problems with 
the employer, I’m fine, but I don’t see how that can be done.

 

 

 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 2/2/21 12:34, "AFRINIC Communication"  escribió:

 

Dear colleagues,

AFRINIC acts as the secretariat and facilitator to support community 
discussions and the policy development process. To deliver on this mandate, 
AFRINIC provides a number of inclusive, transparent and open platforms that 
include public meetings and mailing lists.

Following complaints received from several community members on the virulence 
of exchanges on AFRINIC mailing lists and the growing number of one-off posts 
from incognito aliases that the community dubbed as “Internet trolls”, we 
published a blog in September 2020 on the Code of Conduct. 
https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct

Unfortunately, that did not act as a deterrent and consequently, the 
subscription of one subscriber to our Community mailing list was revoked 
following previous warning issued to the latter.

(https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003736.html)

We are also awaiting the feedback from the Governance Committee pertaining to 
two requests made by the AFRINIC CEO in 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [members-discuss] Unsolicited Requests

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

If you read the thread and all the attached whatsapps, you will see that once 
you ask the first caller for some explanations, the phone call is close and 
then the candidate is calling you.

 

Is not that sufficient evidence that the candidate knows about this campaign?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 30/5/21 10:40, "Paschal Ochang"  escribió:

 

Well said Ronald. Jordis point of disqualification sounds like the judge, jury 
and executioner and is hasty in all ramifications. Even if there were some 
facts to prove the points, it may be possible that the candidate is not even 
aware of such and is dragged down the drain and smeared in the mud. Who knows 
it may be a strategy to bring down the candidate.

On Sunday, May 30, 2021, Ronald F. Guilmette  wrote:

In message , 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  wrote:

>I think it is very clear that one of the candidates is getting support from
> an organization for a campaign to promote him in a very unethical,
>immoral, and in many jurisdictions against the law, because the usage
>of personal data. Further to that, it is clear to me that the usage of
>the AFRINIC mailings list and whois is against the purpose.

Boy oh boy!  I take a few days off to go and work on some other stuff
closer to home, and it seems like I missed out on everything!

I see a lot of accusations flying around.  What I don't seem to see is
any clear evidence to support them.

So, what did I miss?

I see some folks claiming that somebody tried to buy votes. Where are those
actual messages and who sent them?  All I have seen so far is some alleged
email messages from Nishal Goburdhan encouraging people to vote and not
even mentioning any specific candidate(s).

If there's something wrong with that then someone will have to explain
that to me, because my small brain doesn't understand.

If there are messages that were sent BY ANYBODY and that are clearly offering 
money in exchange for votes, then if those are in plain text form, or if
they can be converted to plain text, then I ask anyone making claims about
such things to please post those here WITH FULL EMAIL HEADERS (because as
we all know, emails can be rather trivially forged).  On the other hand,
if any such "bribery" messages exist and can be rendered as screenshots,
from a phone or whatever, then I hope that whoever may be making such clains
will make screenshots, post those to imgur.com or Google Drive, or to any
other such service and that they will then be so kind as to share, publicly,
the relevant URLs.

Separately, my friend Jordi also seems to be a bit up in arms about what
may or may not constitute misuse of public but personal data, e.g. in ways
that might violate either the European GDPR or its counterparts elsewhere,
e.g. in Mauritius.

I personally have trouble getting too awfully upset, anxious, or angry
about this secondary issue, in no small part because like most of the
rest of you, I have been a daily recipient of email spam for about the
past 20+ years.  If I ran the world, then we would catch all spammers
and immediately shoot or castrate all of them. but the global Internet
community apparently feels that my preferred approach to the problem is
a bit too harsh, and that lesser punishments should apply.  Given that
context, and that fact that massive violations of GDPR are taking place,
even within the EU, AND on a daily basis, AND going entirely unpunished,
I have some trouble getting too hot and bothered about the possibilitty
that someone may have spammed to encourage voting generally, or spammed
for their favorite candidate in the upcoming election, particularly given
that this alleged spamming was quite evidently confined to a small scale,
and to a very limited audience.  (If we are going to start killing
spammers, could we please start with the ones that are sending out
billions of spams per week?)

Any claim of buying votes in any RIR election is, in contrast, incredibly
serious however, and I hope that any clear evidence of this will be made
public immediately.

Jordi also wrote:

>I think it is absolutely mandatory at this point that the candidate in
>question is disqualified...

That seems a bit hasty to me.

Let's see the facts and the evidence before we go castrating anyone for
something that they may or may not have even participated in.



Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders in AfriNIC

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

In my opinion, the right way to have this is:

 
Bylaws, almost as they are now. They refer already to the resources, PDP and 
the RSA.
RSA. Handles well the relation of any member with AFRINIC. However, this is 
only covering “full members” in the sense that they are getting any resources 
from AFRINIC *and* then they get the full set of services. For example, it 
handles in a very generic way the recovery of resources from members that 
violate PDP, stop paying fees, etc.
PDP (CPM). It tells AFRINIC what are the policies that they should apply to 
provide resources and services and under what conditions the services and 
resources are provided. The PDP is the most important document, the other two 
are just “frameworks”.
 

Note that I’m not saying that any of those documents is 100% correct, they all 
have mistakes, typos, things to improve, etc.

 

What we are missing:
A kind of RSA for legacy holders. If they decide to pay for the full set of 
services, they will sign the RSA. Note that this is not changing what we have 
already today. A legacy holder that got originally only IPv4 resources, and now 
as for an ASN or IPv6, they will need to sign the RSA already. However, a 
legacy holder that only has the original set of IPv4 resources allocated 
pre-RIR, still need some of the registration services, so we need a “slightly 
reduced fee” and a specific service agreement. May be “LSA” Legacy Services 
Agreement.
Maybe, to be able to do a)  in “better” conditions, the CPM should have a new 
section stating what are the policies that apply to the Legacy holders and what 
services they get. I think it is a simple section stating what sections of the 
existing CPM apply and what other not. I’m not saying it is easy to agree on 
this … this is PDP work. Note that a) could be written in such way that even if 
this new CPM section is still not available, once available, it will be 
enforceable. I know is difficult, but because they don’t get the full set of 
services, if we play well, this, together with the need for IPv6, ASN, etc., 
could push the legacy to join the regular membership, accept all the policies 
and sign the RSA instead of the LSA.
 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 11/2/21 18:46, "Paul Wollner"  escribió:

 

Hi Noah

 

Thanks for your prompt reply. I will say the same goes for the bylaw, they are 
both lawyer-made documents which should not govern the usage of community 
resource. Or else lawyers can do whatever they want to, then what is the point 
of having a community and CPM?

 

Using bylaw to justify the action of using RSA to manage IP resource is not 
only invalid (as RSA is a document written by lawyers)but also very ridiculous. 
These documents shouldn’t contain anything about resource management in the 
very first place because this can be used as an evidence of AFRINIC not 
following up its own “bottom up process” - which consequently violates its 
legitimacy of existence.

 

The only valid way of resource management is through PDP, by making changes to 
the CPM - both PDP and CPM are above any jurisdiction and any legal documents 
such as bylaw and RSA.

 

As for the bylaw and RSA, they should simply refer all resource management 
clauses to the CPM and delete all resource management clauses. The versions 
current are very poorly written and need to be redone.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

 On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:09:15 +0200 Noah  wrote 

 

Hi Paul,

 

Before we dwell into the RSA, please read the AFRINIC Bylaws and specifically 
article 3.4 sections (i) and (iii).

 

The constitution is clear on what the objectives of AFRINIC are among others. 
The RSA and ratified policies regulate the said management of Internet number 
resources.

 

Noah

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 19:54 Paul Wollner,  wrote:

Hello Everyone,

 

It is vital to note that the RSA is not the document to regulate the resource 
usage. If this is the case then, the entire bottom up policy will be obsolete! 
The RSA can easily be amended by AFRINIC which allows and permit an arbitrary 
form of changes being made neglecting the proper PDP flow. This form of 
suggestion and idea is dangerous as it allows AFRINIC absolute control.

 

We need to be mindful with what we say especially if we tend to argue for the 
sake of bashing certain individuals as this have the tendency to endanger the 
very basis that AFRINIC exists on, which is the bottom up policy.

 

The fact remains that the RSA is a mere contractual document which establishes 
the relationship between the Parties which are party to the document. In 
essence, any issues on ground of technicality is amendable and can be made 
right with proper resolution of the Parties and it is not the end of the world.

 

The above also encompass the mere technicalities including the change of 
nature. So long as the change of nature does not violate any written laws and 
are not used for crime, it should be permitted and AFRINIC should not be 
allowed to 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Community expectations

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi SM,

Exactly, you will not find such RFC because it is not needed, as we haven't 
been in that situation.

In any open and transparent organization, country, etc., etc., the principles 
of freedom of expression and NON-censorship are presumed.

I don't know of any mailing list from IETF, RIRs, or many other open and 
transparent organizations of the Internet ecosystem that has removed any emails 
from the archives. I'm not saying it never happened, but I'm now aware of it, 
so unless my memory fails, it didn't happen in the organizations where I 
participate.

So, I insist that the archives of mail exploders are "factual notetakers", so 
if AFRINIC (or any RIR, IETF, or "open and transparent" organization) believes 
that an email should be deleted from archives because it constitutes a "crime", 
it should be decided by a court, not any organization. Otherwise, you are 
censoring, because you may delete something which is not actually a crime, even 
if you believe it.


Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 29/3/21 10:26, "S. Moonesamy"  escribió:

Dear stakeholders,

Mr Palet stated that "the only way for removing anything (even porn, 
terrorism, etc., which by the way are extreme cases, that never 
happened in any RIR or IETF mailing list,  unless I missed it), is by 
means of a court order."  I could not find any RFC or other document 
which states that the IETF requires a court order to remove an email 
from its mailing list archives.  Is there a reference to fact-check 
that statement?

An email cannot be easily removed once it is sent as the sender does 
not have any control over the receiver's mailbox.  It is technically 
possible to remove an email from a mailing list archive.  What are 
the community expectations on the removal of an email from the 
AFRINIC web site?

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

Board Chair, AFRINIC 




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Re: [Community-Discuss] March 2021 Updates

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Eddy,

 

Unless I’m missing it, I believe that the summary of the community consultation 
webinar is missing a key point that I made.

 

I stated that the only way for removing anything (even porn, terrorism, etc., 
which by the way are extreme cases, that never happened in any RIR or IETF 
mailing list, unless I missed it), is by means of a court order.

 

Expanding that, this is also the way to ensure that AFRINIC has no 
responsibility if something like that happens. AFRINIC can demonstrate in that 
case that:
It was not AFRINIC posting.
AFRINIC noticed that this may be illegal and asked the authorities to confirm 
if it should be removed.
AFRINIC clearly is not liable for that, it is just a “record keeper”.
 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 17/3/21 9:51, "Eddy Kayihura"  escribió:

 

[French, Arabic, and Portuguese versions below]

 

Dear Colleagues,

 

I hope you are keeping well. Please find below updates detailing AFRINIC 
activities in March 2021.

 

Community Consultative webinar

I would like to thank our community members who attended the “Public 
Persecution vs. Constructive Criticism on AFRINIC Mailing lists” Community 
Consultative Webinar. We had a total of 68 participants in the webinar. The 
AFRINIC mailing list is an essential avenue for policy building and continuous 
dialogue - our community’s heartbeat, where we engage in open, respectful 
discussions, on matters of importance to the African Internet community. From 
this webinar, we understood your perspective and we now pave the way for other 
such-like webinars where we listen to the views of our community. 

 

This webinar showed the sense of goodwill from our community, the desire for 
teamwork in our community, and the trust you have for AFRINIC. I wish to assure 
our community that we will make sure to address the concerns raised in the 
shortest time possible to see us get to a point where it is safe to contribute 
to discussions on the mailing list.  We want to ensure that we create an 
environment that is conducive enough and helpful for everyone to participate 
freely and where people are safe to contribute. An executive summary for the 
webinar has been published.

 

AIS’21 Online

The  African Internet Summit (AIS’21) Online / AFRINIC 33 will take place on 
31st May- 4th June 2021.

Registration for this meeting is now open, and delegates are requested to 
register before 21st May 2021. The virtual session will follow the tentative 
program below:

  31   May 2021   -AfNOG Technical Session 

   1June 2021   -Af* Meeting

   2-3 June 2021  -AFRINIC-33 Public Policy Meeting

   4 June 2021  -   Annual General Members Meeting (AGMM).

 

Updates on the Mailing list clean up Exercise

To safeguard the community from being subject to inappropriate behaviours, we 
have developed mechanisms to verify and authenticate the mailing lists’ users. 
The terms of use are now approved and we are working on its implementation 
starting with the community-discuss mailing list.

 

AFRINIC Office Closure

There has been another wave of COVID-19 infections in Mauritius. The Mauritian 
authorities have announced a countrywide lockdown in the next two weeks. For 
our staff’s safety and to comply with the government directives, the AFRINIC 
office will remain closed for any walk-in services during this time. We have 
put in place measures to ensure that all our services are available, albeit 
online and the AFRINIC Team is in a position to provide services.

 

 Appreciation to all Volunteers in the African Internet Community

Our community is backed up by men and women who have given their time and even 
expertise towards various projects and in different groups and I would not end 
this update without appreciating our community members who double up as 
volunteers engaging in discussions on the mailing lists. Moreover, they take 
time out of their busy schedules to participate in consultative sessions 
whenever they are called upon. I think it is only fair that I acknowledge these 
groups: The Board Members, the members of all working groups and our volunteer 
translators. Thank you for your service.

 

I wish you well as we pursue our common goals and aspirations.

 

Thank You.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Eddy Kayihura,

Chief Executive Officer,

African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC).

www.afrinic.net 

 

…






Chers collègues,

J'espère que vous vous portez bien. Veuillez trouver ci-dessous les mises à 
jour détaillant les activités d'AFRINIC en mars 2021.

 

Webinaire consultatif de la communauté

Je voudrais remercier les membres de notre communauté qui ont participé au 
webinaire consultatif de la communauté ''Public Persecution vs. Constructive 
Criticism on AFRINIC Mailing lists”. Nous avons eu un total de 68 participants 
à ce webinaire. La liste de diffusion d'AFRINIC est une plateforme essentielle 
pour l'élaboration de politiques et le dialogue continu - le 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald Guilmette

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Sunday, all,

While I understand your point, we also need to understand that the Internet 
communities are multicultural and we should not ban someone because is language 
is not up to anyone local culture.

I fully agree that sometimes, the way some of us (and I'm including myself 
here) speak in mails may look offensive, but is not necessarily the intend 
(with the exceptions of very clear "ad hominem"). I may look sometimes very 
"abrupt" in my emails, and is not an attack to anyone, is our different way to 
speak and express, what should matter is the real intent: not just complaining 
about the problems or issues that affect this community but also trying to make 
our best to resolve them, and if that means thinking loud, without a clear 
personal attack to anyone, it must be just fine.

Note that I'm not defending Ron here, I know him just because email exchange 
and we had once a skype chat, if I recall correctly, so I know him even less 
than many folks that we met often in AFRINIC or other RIR meetings.

I'm speaking "in general", and for that, I'm using also my previous experience 
as almost 12 years as sergeant-at-arms in IETF (RFC3005), when I needed to take 
difficult decisions with several people across those years, and always trying 
to understand their own cultural backgrounds.

Now, speaking about this specific action. There is something called freedom of 
expression. If someone believes that a Court, never mind is a Court, is making 
things wrong, it is perfectly licit to say it with total freedom. If the Court 
believes that that person is acting against the Court, is up to the Court to 
take actions against that person, not this community. As Sunday said, if you 
don't like that way of expressing himself, you can just ignore his emails.

Because it is clear everywhere that the comment about the Court is from Ron, 
and not anyone else, and even less from AFRINIC, the Court can't take any 
actions against AFRINIC and if that happens, even if we only suspect that is 
happening, then AFRINIC will be better established in another country that 
respects our open and transparent culture, because we can't "live" in a country 
with Courts that may be taking arbitrary decisions or based in personal 
comments from others. Even more, if that's the case, then the mailing list can 
be just hosted somewhere else and maintained by a more neutral organization, in 
a more neutral country. There are many options here.

With all the respect, in my opinion this consideration from the Communications 
and PR Team is beyond their scope and totally exaggerated. To be clear, I'm 
talking about the specific paragraph about the Mauritius Court.

Just as an example, if we discuss in the list and criticize the Mauritius 
Government if the cut Internet for political reasons, should be that disallowed 
and censored in the list? What if it happens with any other Government in 
Africa or in any other side of the world, affecting this community? Can you see 
how ridiculous is doing that in our open and transparent context?  

Moreover, removing any posting from the mailing list archives is a clear attack 
to this community. This is called censorship. If AFRINIC, as an organization, 
is providing the service, it must be an open and transparent service, and that 
includes not making any kind of censorship.

Moderating someone for a specific time, because he is committing "ad hominem", 
is fine and necessary in my opinion, but not censorship. Otherwise, we are not 
any longer respecting the open and transparent community that we are supporting 
and voicing over all the time "we allow you to say whatever you want, but if 
that's not good in our perspective, we will delete it". Is that making sense?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 24/2/21 9:55, "Sunday Folayan"  escribió:

Painful, but necessary.

In my culture, when you rent an apartment, you do not wake up each 
morning to insult your landlord.

The last time I tried to correct him on the use of a "tar brush" on 
anyone and anything when he writes, he condescended to attacking my 
faith. I thereafter chose to ignore him, as the faith I profess (indeed 
anyone's faith) is not important to the issues being discussed.

We should not be too dull, not to know how to keep intellectual bullies 
at bay.

Thank you for taking some action, and I urge the community to accept 
plenty of help, but with some level of dignity.

Sunday.

On 2/23/21 7:51 PM, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
> Dear AFRINIC community members,
>
> Mr. Ronald Guilmette has repeatedly violated the code of conduct of the 
AFRINIC community mailing list despite being notified of this on several 
occasions including the following:
>
> On the 31st of August 2020, AFRINIC’s CEO filed a complaint against Mr. 
Guilmette due to the violation of Code of Conduct on the Community mailing list 
to the Governance Committee (Gov Com)
> 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald Guilmette

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Mike,

I'm fully aware of that, but is not AFRINIC who is making those comments, 
neither the staff, or the Board.

It is an individual, not legally bound to AFRINIC (organization).

If there is any remote chance that the Mauritius Courts take that to influence 
their decision or make AFRINIC liable, then *definitively* Mauritius is the 
wrong place to establish a RIR. I'm not saying this is that case, but if the 
staff believes so, then we have a big problem.

Note that Ron (or anyone) can make the same or worst criticism to the Mauritius 
Courts, and do it outside of AFRINIC mailing list, but still visible for the 
courts, and still citing AFRINIC, etc., etc. That's not making *any* difference 
versus doing it in the community-discuss mailing list.

There are two aspects here: moderation, which seems to be decided based on 
continuous untampered language, and I may agree with that, up to a certain 
point AND censorship of the message. This is ABSOLUTELY UNNAPROPRIATE for any 
RIR to do so. The community need to think about that, and we must decide if we 
want to keep trusting AFRINIC for holding our discussion mailing lists. What 
may be the next censored message?

Do we want our discussions to be censored at all?

Note also that censoring is bad in case somebody is committing any illegal 
action and it is visible in the list, because then you may not be able use the 
list as a demonstration for that.

All our discussions, if we keep the neutral, open and transparent "tagging", 
MUST BE ARCHIVED AND NEVER CENSORED.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 24/2/21 11:27, "Mike Silber"  escribió:

Hi Jordi

Trying to be objective here.


> On 24 Feb 2021, at 11:49, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:


> 
> Because it is clear everywhere that the comment about the Court is from 
Ron, and not anyone else, and even less from AFRINIC, the Court can't take any 
actions against AFRINIC and if that happens, even if we only suspect that is 
happening, then AFRINIC will be better established in another country that 
respects our open and transparent culture, because we can't "live" in a country 
with Courts that may be taking arbitrary decisions or based in personal 
comments from others. Even more, if that's the case, then the mailing list can 
be just hosted somewhere else and maintained by a more neutral organization, in 
a more neutral country. There are many options here.
> 
> With all the respect, in my opinion this consideration from the 
Communications and PR Team is beyond their scope and totally exaggerated. To be 
clear, I'm talking about the specific paragraph about the Mauritius Court.
> 
AfriNIC is domiciled in Mauritius and a party to a case before the 
Mauritian High Court.

The comments made and published on an AfriNIC mailing list expose AfriNIC 
to significant risk and potential liability.

A response was required and justified. I am just not sure that the specific 
response was correct.

Hopefully moderation will not dampen Ron’s enthusiasm, just temper his 
language.

Mike




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[Community-Discuss] clarification requested from AFRINIC

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi all,

Today, during the APNIC51 meeting, in the Global Reports session 
(https://2021.apricot.net/program/schedule-conference/#/day/10/apnic-global-reports),
 as usual, there was a presentation from every RIR, including AFRINIC.

In this presentation from AFRINIC, there have been two "imprecisions". I prefer 
to use this wording instead of something stronger, because to me those are very 
severe issues. I've asked in the Q to get this publicly clarified and it was 
not done.

AFRINIC MUST publicly acknowledge the mistakes.

1) It was explained that the AFRINIC PDWG co-chairs resigned. You can see it at 
the end of the presentation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODvgxbMErs#t=35m50s


2) It has been said that one of the policy proposals that reached consensus 
hasn't been sent to the Board for ratification, which is not true, as discussed 
in the RPD mailing list. The co-chairs did send the policy to the Board, but 
the Board decided to ignore it, because it looks like they want the chairs to 
follow a format that has never been enforced before and it has not been 
approved by the community, neither the PDP.
See slide 6 at 
https://2021.apricot.net/assets/files/APSr481/afrinic-update-apnic51.pdf


Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 



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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] clarification requested from AFRINIC

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Madhvi,

 

The correction of my point 1 was done in the Q screen, but not in “voice”. As 
a consequence, all the participants that usually have the Q windows closed 
(in Zoom), were not able to see it, and they may be still under the impression 
that it was a resignation, not a recall. I understand that was out of the hands 
of AFRINIC, so I’ve copied back the relevant APNIC mailing list, so this 
correction is now clear.

 

Regarding point 2, the co-chairs indicated that they have sent an email. The 
PDP doesn’t state any explicit format or template. The list dicussion shows 
that the staff asked them to follow a format used by previous chairs, but the 
PDP doesn’t ask for it, so it can’t be enforced. The Board deny having got that 
report, but they never denied having received the email. Again: the PDP doesn’t 
enforce any specific format, so we need to see the email to understand if the 
Board is missing something and actually *informed* the co-chairs about WHAT 
they missed.

 

Can the Board *confirm* or *deny* if they GOT SUCH EMAIL? That will clarify the 
issue and if the (ex)co-chairs can forward that email to the list, that will be 
awesome, but meanwhile, even if the co-chairs have been recalled, I don’t have 
any reasons to believe that they lied in sense that they didn’t sent the email.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 3/3/21 12:09, "Madhvi Gokool"  escribió:

 

Hello Jordi /PDWG

 

On 03/03/2021 1:52 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
Hi all,
 
Today, during the APNIC51 meeting, in the Global Reports session 
(https://2021.apricot.net/program/schedule-conference/#/day/10/apnic-global-reports),
 as usual, there was a presentation from every RIR, including AFRINIC.
 
In this presentation from AFRINIC, there have been two "imprecisions". I prefer 
to use this wording instead of something stronger, because to me those are very 
severe issues. I've asked in the Q to get this publicly clarified and it was 
not done.
 
AFRINIC MUST publicly acknowledge the mistakes.
 
1) It was explained that the AFRINIC PDWG co-chairs resigned. You can see it at 
the end of the presentation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODvgxbMErs#t=35m50s
The AFRINIC staff corrected the initial statement made in his  presentation and 
mentioned that the Co-chairs were recalled in the Q feature.  
 
 
2) It has been said that one of the policy proposals that reached consensus 
hasn't been sent to the Board for ratification, which is not true, as discussed 
in the RPD mailing list. The co-chairs did send the policy to the Board, but 
the Board decided to ignore it, because it looks like they want the chairs to 
follow a format that has never been enforced before and it has not been 
approved by the community, neither the PDP.
See slide 6 at 
https://2021.apricot.net/assets/files/APSr481/afrinic-update-apnic51.pdf
i) The PDWG is under the impression from a previous correspondence of the now 
ex-co chair AbdulKarim that the co-chairs  had already sent the ratification 
reports to the Board.

ii) There were requests on the rpd mailing list to the outgoing co-chairs to 
share the mails that they have sent to the Board with the PDWG  and there were 
no responses.  

iii) The Board Chair informed the community on 14 Feb 2021  that the report for 
ratification was not received. 

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012363.html

iv) It is incorrect to mention that the Board wanted the chairs to follow a 
specific format. This is a misinterpretation of the information provided by the 
Policy Liaison to the mailing list  in regard to the report template.  
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012374.html

 

Regards

Madhvi

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald Guilmette

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Ronald,

The point is not that you agree with the removal of the message. The point is 
that it is censorship, and this community should not allow it, because then it 
means in the future anything else could be removed.

This list is not to "satisfy" crazy laws in any country, whatever is the 
country.

None of the RIRs communities are subjected to the laws of any country which 
imply restricting freedom of expression, and if we have the risk of being in 
that situation in any RIR, then that RIR should be away from that country.

If I need to criticize the rules of Mauritius because they are outdated and 
illogic and restrict freedom of expression, then AFRINIC will need to censor 
me, then I will litigate with AFRINIC, no doubt on that and I will keep 
continue criticizing whatever I believe is wrong from blogs, articles, 
newspapers, or whatever is in my hand.

As a consequence, it is totally ridiculous that AFRINIC tries to censor anyone, 
and we must not accept it.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 25/2/21 8:56, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message <1526ab54-5720-4d1e-87e2-534844e23...@consulintel.es>, 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  wrote:

>Moreover, removing any posting from the mailing list archives is a clear
>attack to this community. This is called censorship. If AFRINIC, as an
>organization, is providing the service, it must be an open and transparent
>service, and that includes not making any kind of censorship.

I thank both Jordi and Mike Silber for their kind and constructive
comments.

I wish to say also that I personally am OK with having my prior
posting here scrubbed from the mailing list archives.  I understand
that there is some concern, well placed or not, within AFRINIC that
some of my comments may reflect badly on the organization itself and
might possibly have some effect on either the already ongoing litigation
or on potential future litigation... and I most certainly would not 
desire anything that I have said, as a private citizen, to have any
negative effect upon AFRINIC's legal position.

After being duly informed that further contributions from me would be
moderated for a period of 30 days, I did some reading on this topic
of this legal offense known as "Scandalizing the Court".  I had to
educate myself about that, because we quite certainly have nothing
even remotely like that here in the U.S.

What I learned, among other things, is that such an offense continued
to exist, in England, Whales, and Scotland, until really quite recently,
i.e. the 2012-2013 time frame, but that since that time it has been 
abolished in those judicial systems.  I also learned that this offense
continues to exist within many Commonwealth countries, apparently
including Mauritius.

It is not for me to opine on the question of whether my prior comments
do or do not satisfy all of the various legal elements of the crime of
"Scandalizing the Court", specifically as that crime is defined within
the legal system of Mauritius.  That question is most certainly not
within my area of expertise.  I would only offer the suggestion that
my prior comments may possibly not rise to the level of satisfying the
legal definition of that crime, and that even if they did, I would most
certainly plead for some mitigation and leniency at my sentencing,
based upon my ignorance of local law in this instance.  (And in any
event, as should be obvious, I cannot say that I am particularly worried
that Mauritian authorities would seek to have me extradited from the
U.S. to Mauritius, to face Mauritian justice for this particular crime,
and even if that remote possibility suddenly became probable, I might
simply choose to relocate myself to some national jurisdiction that
appears to be immune, at present, to such inter-national extradition
proceedings, e.g. someplace that appears on maps just to the left of
Kenya.)

With regards to my prior comments about individuals, I do apologize to
the community if any of these might have any effect on AFRINIC's legal
position.  It is my hope and belief that they should not and will not.
I speak only for myself.  Furthermore, I am quite certainly subject to
potential legal proceedings (e.g. for defamation) here in the United
States of America... by far the most litigious country on earth...  and
I am thus cautious in what I say and how I say it.  I have said no more
about individuals than I believe could be justified in open court, based
upon persuasive and abundant available hard evidence, much of which I have
already shared here.

Nontheless, I ask forgiveness from the community for my often intemperate
manner of speech, forgiveness which I hope will be forthcoming, given the
totality of the context.

I have sought, for well more than a year and a half 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders in AfriNIC

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

[Jordi] Nothing to object here, but still if you have documented (justified) in 
the original allocation request to AFRINIC a specific usage, for supporting, 
let’s say 1 million customers, and now you only have 100.000 customers, the 
justification becomes invalid. That’s why transfers come in place. Of course, 
you still can instead of using the transfer, return the space to AFRINIC, but 
you can’t just “stockpile” the addresses, or use them out of the region. 
Remember also that the bylaws allow the membership (section 6.1) to those based 
in the region and providing services in the region. So if you stop providing 
services or go away from the region, the membership can only be sustained if it 
is approved by the board or the membership. Finally, the RSA section 4, state 
that the conditions of the service are “solely for the purpose for which it was 
requested” so depending on *what* you requested, you may be acting against the 
original purpose if you change your business. I agree that in some sense this 
should be only part of the CPM, but the current situation is that the RSA also 
have that normative text.


 
Moreover, this is the exact reason why RSA is so badly written and shouldn't 
contain any resource management clause. The lawyers do not understand the very 
concept of Allocation and Assignment, let alone distinguishing between them. 
Therefore, allowing lawyers texts to manage community resources is not only 
illegitimate, but also lacks of needed technical understanding of addressing to 
properly write it, that is why we now have an RSA which is full of invalid IP 
management clauses and contradiction to the policy itself, which needs to be 
fixed at some point of time. Not to mention that allowing lawyers to manage the 
resources defies the very foundation of the bottom up process.

 

[Jordi] Yes, I just said it … probably the RSA needs a lot of tidy-up … and not 
just by lawyers!

 

Le jeu. 11 févr. 2021 à 20:34, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 a écrit :

Hi Widjane,

 

I agree with you in some of the points, but not in all them.

 

1.   Policies among the RIRs aren’t exactly the same. They tend to converge 
with the time, but not always are 100% the same.

2.   In fact, in some RIRs, right now, if you asked for resources and 
provided documents about what will be the usage and you change usage, you’re 
under lack of compliance. Note that we aren’t talking about business grow. For 
example, a very simple on, let’s suppose you got resources for an organization 
(assigned resources) and now you want to provide Internet services to others, 
that will be against policies, in all the RIRs. Another example, if you got 
resources in some RIRs you can’t use them to provide services outside of that 
region (at all, example AFRINIC, or depending on the % example LACNIC, it 
depends on the RIR).

3.   I can agree with your that this is not right in many situations and 
policy should allow it. However, there are technical issues about allowing that 
freely, not just policy issues (and sometimes the policy issues, in fact, 
happen because technical issues).

4.   AFRINIC is the only RIR, at the time being, that has not adopted 
(ratified and even less implemented) a policy proposal for Inter-RIR transfers. 
However, even in most of the RIRs, the allowed transfers are only for IPv4.

5.   I will love that we could make policy changes in a more dynamic way, 
but specially in AFRINIC, it is being too slow.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 11/2/21 20:01, "Wijdane Goubi"  escribió:

 

Dear community,

Technically speaking, if a change of the nature is not allowed (as claimed by 
some) this doesn’t make any technical sense at all as there are consensus among 
several RIRs to allow inter RIR transfer and also allows intra RIR transfers. 

The logic adopted that the change of nature is not permitted doesn’t sit well 
with the established sections of the policies adopted and used. In fact, the 
logic will bar and limit the ability for an organization to grow and expend its 
services. 

This imposition will also burden the member to go through unnecessary 
bureaucratic demands and expectations whereas the matter could easily be 
resolved. The policy and understanding of business nature needs to be as 
dynamic as the internet is!

The internet grows and evolves from one form to another, so should the policy. 
In fact, RIR never bothers or care with how the space is being used for.

A post from years ago (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html 
), from both ARIN and RIPE explained that once the space is issued, their only 
concern is to ensure accurate registration.

The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking can be 
found on the following link: 
https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5 

At or around 08:27:50, Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC explains that their reviews 
are called “ARC”, and it 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders in AfriNIC

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Widjane,

 

I agree with you in some of the points, but not in all them.

 
Policies among the RIRs aren’t exactly the same. They tend to converge with the 
time, but not always are 100% the same.
In fact, in some RIRs, right now, if you asked for resources and provided 
documents about what will be the usage and you change usage, you’re under lack 
of compliance. Note that we aren’t talking about business grow. For example, a 
very simple on, let’s suppose you got resources for an organization (assigned 
resources) and now you want to provide Internet services to others, that will 
be against policies, in all the RIRs. Another example, if you got resources in 
some RIRs you can’t use them to provide services outside of that region (at 
all, example AFRINIC, or depending on the % example LACNIC, it depends on the 
RIR).
I can agree with your that this is not right in many situations and policy 
should allow it. However, there are technical issues about allowing that 
freely, not just policy issues (and sometimes the policy issues, in fact, 
happen because technical issues).
AFRINIC is the only RIR, at the time being, that has not adopted (ratified and 
even less implemented) a policy proposal for Inter-RIR transfers. However, even 
in most of the RIRs, the allowed transfers are only for IPv4.
I will love that we could make policy changes in a more dynamic way, but 
specially in AFRINIC, it is being too slow.
 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 11/2/21 20:01, "Wijdane Goubi"  escribió:

 

Dear community,

Technically speaking, if a change of the nature is not allowed (as claimed by 
some) this doesn’t make any technical sense at all as there are consensus among 
several RIRs to allow inter RIR transfer and also allows intra RIR transfers. 

The logic adopted that the change of nature is not permitted doesn’t sit well 
with the established sections of the policies adopted and used. In fact, the 
logic will bar and limit the ability for an organization to grow and expend its 
services. 

This imposition will also burden the member to go through unnecessary 
bureaucratic demands and expectations whereas the matter could easily be 
resolved. The policy and understanding of business nature needs to be as 
dynamic as the internet is!

The internet grows and evolves from one form to another, so should the policy. 
In fact, RIR never bothers or care with how the space is being used for.

A post from years ago (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html 
), from both ARIN and RIPE explained that once the space is issued, their only 
concern is to ensure accurate registration.

The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking can be 
found on the following link: 
https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5 

At or around 08:27:50, Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC explains that their reviews 
are called “ARC”, and it is to keep in touch and keep the data up to data, 
registry data, that is the contact details and so on. Investigation, that is 
the part of the “fraud”.

Whereas, at or around 08:29:50, Leslie from ARIN explains the scope of their 
policy, they only audit in fraud cases and only deregister in case of fraud.

Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and 
questions on how the LIRs are currently using their resources.

There is a global consensus on how spaces are being used currently—as long as 
the allocation process was justified and registration is actual, RIR does not 
care about its current usage.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Even more 

They accept their president to ask for the Capitol invasion and nothing happens 
... interesting at least!

But the question here is, in the EU, spam by SMS, phone, or *any means* (not 
just email) is against GDPR and many other regulations.

I'm unsure if the "transposition" of the GDPR in Mauritius is also following 
the same rationale. Can someone confirm?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 29/7/21 9:05, "Ish Sookun via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

Hi Ronald,

On Thursday, 29 July 2021 02:37:50 +04 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> (And indeed, we here in the U.S.
> are routinely inundated with such calls on a daily basis, starting
> generally about two months before each local or national election.)

Americans accept to be inundated with election lobbyists on phone on daily 
basis? And they do nothing to stop it?

Regards,

-- 
Ish Sookun



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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

You don't think that any national law, in this case in Mauritius (which have an 
equivalent to the GDPR), is on top of organization rules?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 29/7/21 11:58, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message <1e7823b3-005a-4813-9e46-76f61d457...@consulintel.es>, 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  wrote:

>The whois is a database to know registered resources and be able
>to contact the responsible people for matters related to that.

Show me where it says that.

>Even if the whois "rules" don't explicitly mention that, the
>GDPR is on top of the whois rules 

No, it isn't.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Ronald,

Yes, no doubt the other fish is more important now ... but all this is also 
relevant for the case, and legal counsel may need to consider all that in front 
of the Courts ...

The typical interpretation of the DPA is (from previous judgements): If your 
email about the vacation spot is a "friend" recommendation, they it may be that 
you only get a warning if I didn't offered to you my email as "friend", but you 
captured it from a mailing list. However, if you're sending the email because 
you have some "business", "commissions" or anything with that "promotion" of 
the spot, then it is a spam, unless I've provided a previous and explicit 
consent.

"selling" a Board candidate it is spam, no doubts. It is unethical, unmoral and 
against the usage rules of the whois and mail exploders.

The whois is a database to know registered resources and be able to contact the 
responsible people for matters related to that.

Even if the whois "rules" don't explicitly mention that, the GDPR is on top of 
the whois rules which already said previous and explicit consent for a specific 
matter.

According GDPR, if you have my email because you sell me fruits, and you decide 
to start selling fish, you need my previous and explicit consent for spamming 
me about the fish.

 
Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 29/7/21 11:03, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message , 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  wrote:

>I disagree. At a minimum they were against the equivalent to the GDPR
>in Mauritius, as they used information collected from whois, mail
>exploders, etc., for a different purpose that the one agreed.

It may have escaped your attention Jordi, but I think that AFRINIC has
some rather bigger fish to fry at the moment.

More to the point, if I email you offline and tell you that I happen to
know of a great vacation spot in Barcelona that you may want to try out
some day, are you going to report me to the Spanish GDPR police?

At what point does the over-agressive interpretation and/or enforcement
of GDPR, either in Europe or in Mauritius, become nothing by a bad joke,
deserving of nothing but scorn and ridicule?

GDPR was written to respond to over-the-top absurdities like the revelations
about Facebook and their unholy relationship with Cambridge Analytica.  It
was *not* written so that you could rat me out to the GDRP police when I
tell you and three other friends about my favorite restaurant.

>Also, it is against the usage terms of the whois and CoC.

Apparently, lots of things are against the CoC.  I have been pointlessly
harassed merely because it is -alleged- that speaking ill of the Mauritian
judiciary is a violation of the CoC.

If we're all going to become bickering lawyers when it comes to such
small things, then I'd like to now assert *my* rights under both the
the United States First Amendment and also the entirely clear provisions
of the United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 19,
to say whatever I damn well please about the Mauritian judiciary, and
without any further interference or improper chastisments on the part
of AFRINIC staff members who aren't lawyers but who nontheless like to
pretend that they are.

https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/udhr.pdf

As regards to the WHOIS Terms & Conditions, show me the part that you
think was violated, and I'll show you how it doesn't mean what you
apparently think it means.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I understand what you mean, but is not so simple ... I don't know Mauritius, 
but if the justice system works there and you fail to pay to a DPA fine, and 
there is not a reciprocal specific with US, do you believe you will be able to 
come to Mauritius without risking detention or do business with local entities?

May be Mauritius is too small and you don't care, but what about the EU?

Do you know that many fines imposed, for example fines about traffic, have 
reciprocity agreements among many countries so they can be sized from your 
accounts or even prosecuted via freezing of your properties? 

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 30/7/21 1:50, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message <63009ed1-95ab-4863-8dd8-213bffead...@consulintel.es>, 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  wrote:

>You don't think that any national law, in this case in Mauritius
>(which have an equivalent to the GDPR), is on top of organization rules?

No, I don't.

You're confused Jordi.  Do you really think that just by sitting here
in California and using the AFRINIC WHOIS server, I have subjected
myself to the jurisdiction of Mauritius??

If so, I challenge you to prove it by citing some actual cases that
have been adjudicated to that effect.

Do you have any actual precedents to back up your claims?  Any at all?


Regards,
rfg


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Ronald is very right.

How that can be possible?

Of course, the original justification is *extremely relevant*. Was it done 
properly and in good faith?

Was it properly checked by the staff? Was the relevant staff doing correctly 
his/her job?

Is that justification still valid, or if the original intended usage has been 
changed, has that been reviewed with the staff to ensure compliance with 
policies and rules?

I could understand that you could change the usage of a small % and it is just 
fine, but if it is the majority of the allocation, the original documented 
purpose may not be longer valid.

If I said "I'm going to setup a network connecting 8 million users in a, b and 
c African countries, please allocate 9 million addresses to me". If then I 
change my business plan or actually *never* setup this network, the original 
documentation provided to justify the allocation, is not valid. Otherwise, 
every AFRINIC member could do the same, just to circumvent the rules!

Note that my comments are *in general* not just for CI or whatever is the 
AFRINIC member name or the number of allocated/assigned addresses.

We need to be crystal clear and transparent: If we want that the documented 
purposes for any member can change without a re-check, then it is open to all 
kind of cheating and I don't think the community adopted such rules. To allow 
that, we will need to agree, via the PDP on that.
 

El 28/7/21 23:31, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message , 
Owen DeLong  wrote:

>We have already agreed that the original justification is no longer 
relevant

What is this "we" Owen?  Is that the royal "we"?  Because *I* certainly
have no recollection that *I* ever agreed that the original justification
that was used as the basis for Cloud Innovation being granted two /11
blocks and two /12 blocks is "no longer relevant".

And given what we now know... largely due to my work... about all of the
funny business that occurred at AFRINIC between, say, 2010 and February,
2015... the same time period when much or all of "The Great AFRINIC Heist"
happened... AND given the absolute and complete lack of public information
about how Cloud Innovation's allocations came to be in the first place,
I, for one, remain deeply curious about everything related to how those
allocations came to be made, back in 2013 and 2014.

The only scrap of information that has, so far, been made pubic about that
decision process is that the decision(s) to grant Cloud Innovation two
/11 blocks and two /12 blocks were NOT made by the Board at the time,
but rather by "staff".  (Well, anyway, there were some public mailing
list messages to that effect at the time.)


Regards,
rfg

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[Community-Discuss] should the allocation/assigment of resources be made public?

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Sylvain,

 

(subject changed and moved to RPD and we should follow the discussion there and 
not copy community, as it belongs to there)

 

I don’t think is so easy.

 

It is very normal, even in open organizations, to keep confidentiality in many 
documents. It could be even ruled as illegal if you don’t accept that in the 
CPM, if we ground the CPM under Mauritius law, which is an open question. 
However, the CPM implementation is done by the AFRINIC as a Mauritius legally 
constituted organization …

 

Remember that a justification for a resource request, can provide insights of a 
business plan and then you’re opening your business to your competitors.

 

So the point is if we can draft something in the line of:

 

***

(new section 3.3.4 “Publication of Information”)

IPv4 resources are scarce and close to exhaustion. So, following the principles 
of openness, transparency and fairness as set above, after “n” years of every 
allocation/assignment of IPv4 resources, the justification of the request must 
be published. Towards that, the resource member will be warned 3 months before 
the publication with a draft of the summary to be published,. It will have up 
to 1 month, to provide a demonstration of reasons why some of the details can’t 
be made public (such as patents or similar), that show the uniqueness nature of 
the services offered which, if disclosed, could damage the resource member 
business. The staff will have 1 month to decide if that’s the case, and in 
doubt, they will escalate to the Board that must resolve in a maximum of 1 
month.

This policy shall be implemented in such way that all the resources 
allocated/assigned for over “n” years, will be chronologically warned in such 
way that allows the staff to process the possible responses of “non-disclosure” 
without requiring extra human resources.

***

 

Now, we need to decide if this is good enough, and how many years for the “n”. 
2 years maybe?

 

I will love also to hear from legal counsel/Board and lawyers participating in 
the community, how they see it …

 

I’m not even sure myself, this could work, but we could try.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

Dear AfriNIC's Community,

 

Please see my comments below, inline...

Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss 
 a écrit :



> On Jul 27, 2021, at 12:30 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
>  wrote:
> 
> This will be very simple to resolve (not taking a position in one side or the 
> other because I don't have all the real facts and documents).
> 
> The original justificacion of the request of the resources I don't think it 
> had so many "secret" and "confidential" details. After several years if any 
> "secrets" were there, probably aren't longer something that can't published 
> now.

 

How come that INRs management becomes a 

matter of such secrets?

 

Please Jordi or any other volunteer, let me know if 

you are willing to contribute to draft a DPP to 

remove the possibility of keeping such, apparently, 

unjustified secrets.

 

 

We have already agreed that the original justification is no longer relevant 
and that, like any ISP in business for more than 8 years, things have changed 
and we have adapted.

 

Dear Owen,

 

...strange! is/was it an adaptation for the good of 

the AfriNIC's service region?

 

Please, could you enlightenned us on those 

interesting details?

 

...moving 90% of INRs out of the AfriNIC's service 

region, without any Inter RIR transfer policy, seems 

to be your best way to support the grow of this RIR 

region.

 

 

> So why not CI, voluntarely publish that information? I don't have any stance 
> on this game, but if I was CI, this will be the best way to probe my points.

Because it is no longer relevant.

> Otherwise, I will suggest that AFRINIC asks the court to incorporate that in 
> the proceedings if is not there already, this way, whatever is the result of 
> the case, everybody will know it. At least in the countries I know, the 
> results of the cases are public, as well as the documents that were 
> incorporated during all the process: transparency.

 

Jordi, maybe it's simply time to stop allowing such 

secrets.

 

 

In reality, even if a curative submission is required (if the last filed 
justification to which I do not have access, TBH), I would suggest they simply 
modify their justification to the following:

We will use the addresses to number internet connected hosts on our own 
infrastructure and on our customers’ networks.

This is a justification which meets the letter of the law of the policy and 
which does not preclude leasing.

 

 

Owen,

...are you considering the notions of *conservation*

 and *reservations*?

 

Knowing the understanding of the current 

implementers of the CPM, it's clear that one shall 

need to submit a convincing addressing plan 

before r

Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Owen,

 

I need to disagree with some of your points here.

 

The transfer proposal was wrongly managed by the chairs, I’m convinced that 
they did in good faith. A proposal, can’t return once and again with 
non-editorial changes to the discussion and sustain the consensus decision.

 

There is no discussion about that. An independent re-call committee decided 
that, despite the numerous warnings, the chairs continued interpreting the PDP 
in their own way.

 

Further to that, not sure to understand way, the actual chairs haven’t resent 
the proposal report to the Board because, we like it or not, reached consensus 
(according to the previous chairs decision) to the board for ratification.

 

I believe the chairs are interpreting, wrongly in my opinion, that they shall 
“hold” a proposal under appeal, until the AC takes a decision. I’m convinced, 
as other members of the community, that it is in the hands of the Board to hold 
the ratification until the appeal is resolved, not the chairs.

 

Could the chairs explain how they can interpret that they shall not send a 
proposal for ratification because it is under appeal or if they are still 
working on the report? (I understood they will finish it by end of June)

 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 1/8/21 21:49, "Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

 

 



On Aug 1, 2021, at 12:21 , Noah  wrote:

 

 

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

 



On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah  wrote:

 

 

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, 
 wrote:

 

Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this 
situation do so

- let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem 
solved.

 

https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy 

 

Noah

PS: confusion of the highest order.

 

Who is confused, Noah? 

 

Andrew who penned down that failed Inbound Transfer Policy Proposal in 2016 and 
today was suggesting an Outbound transfer policy to move IPv4 space out of 
AFRINIC service region.  There is some confusion there.

 

I don’t think he’s confused, I think you fail to recognize a: the context in 
which he penned that 2016 proposal and b: the ways in which circumstances have 
changed today.

Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the board 
to merely ratify

the existing consensus RTP,

 

Says Owen who recently on Thu Jul 29 01:22:17 UTC 2021 cautioned the same 
AFRINIC board from ratifying a proposal under some appeal.

 

Yes… Difference is that there’s arguably no valid appeal standing against RTP.

 

Co-chairs declared consensus.

Appeal submitted

Co-chairs returned proposal to list for further community input.

Consensus was confirmed by the community and again confirmed by co-chairs. Thus 
this consensus declaration was not the subject of the previous appeal.

Proposal submitted to board fro ratification after second consensus call.

 



 

I refer you to the archives  
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html

 

Jordi > I’ve submitted several appeals, so I know very well that only patience 
is needed.

Owen: I would think you, of all people, would understand the need for the board 
to at least acknowledge the appeal and provide some assurance that it will not 
ratify a policy that should be under appeal.


Jordi > The Board will not be able to ratify a policy under appeal until the 
appeal is resolved. That’s it.

Owen: Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the face of recent events, 
I am unwilling to place so much faith in
this current board.

 

Is it safe to say that you Owen is equally confused.

 

Nope… But apparently I was right about you being confused. You seem to fail to 
grasp the difference in circumstance for the two policies you mention above.

 

but Andrew’s suggestion could also mitigate risks for members.

 

It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the 
membership base. 

 

How did you measure this 75%’s opinions? Please do tell.

 

Further, what do members have to do with policy? Policy is under the control of 
the community. Members get control of the board and the bylaws.

 

Owen

 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Noah,

 

Your interpretation on this is wrong.

 

Read my detailed email a few days ago.

 

11.4 Allows the Board to define any policy regarding Internet Resources that 
they believe is urgently needed.

 

This can be implemented ASAP the Board decides. The Board MUST also send the 
policy (11.5), as a policy proposal (because is the only way the PDWG works to 
reach consensus), to the PDWG for endorsement in the next meeting. If the PPM 
doesn’t endorse it, then the Policy will decay, but whatever happened 
meanwhile, will be “legal” in terms of the PDP.

 

Now the question here is:

 
>From past experience in the other RIRs, implementing such Inter-RIR policy, 
>takes a minimum of 6 months, probably even more (it took 12 months in other 
>RIRs), because there is a need to coordinate all the RIR systems. AFRINIC 
>can’t “force” other RIRs to change their own agendas and workflows to address 
>all the changes “faster”. AFRINIC could be lucky and because all the other 4 
>RIRs already passed by this several times, may be the process is so much 
>“adjusted” and fine tunned that it may be faster.
I already suggested many times the Board to do that, when I saw that the 
consensus was not achievable. They ignored that. So I don’t think they want to 
pass this now, more when there are several proposals in discussion and could be 
discussed in a PPM in a couple of months from now, the AC reconstituted, and 
the appeals resolved, etc.
The Board can meanwhile, take measures so the implementation of a possible 
“system” for an Inter-RIR proposal is advanced, in hope that one way or the 
other a proposal reach consensus.
All that said, I expect that if the Board decides to draft that 
proposal/policy, they make sure that there is a clear statement that ensures 
that before any transfer, there is a confirmation of the resources being 
transferred are following the existing conditions in the RSA, CPM, etc., 
otherwise.
 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston,  
wrote:

This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - 

 

Nop

 

 

1.  Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 
shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy 
meeting.

 

They adopt and submit to the PDWG.

 

1.  In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, 
the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its 
non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such 
non-endorsement shall remain valid.

 

AFRINIC Staff will only enforce or implement the adopted policy if and only if  
"we the people" aka the powerful PDWG, endorse the said policy.

 

So dude, the wordings are carefully written.

 

1. Board adopts,  PDWG endorse and finally Staff enforce/implements.

 

Or

 

2. Board adopts, PDWG does not endorse, AFRINIC staff CAN NOT enforce/implement.

 

Makes sense Andrew?

 

 

 

The board can pass a policy - valid till the next policy meeting - and if the 
community doesn’t like it they can reverse it - in the mean time those who feel 
the threat is to great can move in the intervening period.

 

 

Lol there is no **mean time dude** 

 

AFRINIC staff won't enforce or implement if "we the people" don't endorse.

 

 

 

 

The board can - and does - have the power to implement policy valid till the 
next of wg

 

 

The board does not have the power unless "we the people" endorse.

 

Cheers

Noah

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

And for clarity, no RIR (including RIPE NCC) used voting for matters that 
belong to PDP decisions.

I think there is some confusion here, may be something taken out of context, 
not sure what is the issue, but a PDP matter that is decided by consensus 
hasn’t been decided by members voting.

 

 

 

Hi Andrew,

 

On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 11:30 PM Andrew Alston  
wrote:



 

> It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the 
> membership base. 

 

Can I suggest as a compromise position we then test this theory by putting the 
question of transfers  to a member vote passed or failed by simple majority?

 

Seeing that policy development is a matter of the PDWG community as CPM and 
Bylaws section 11.3),  the majority membership dont have powers to do so and I 
was teasing Owen with that 75% and since the Bylaws amendment of 2020 in 
section 11.5) i and ii, not even the board has powers anymore to enforce any 
policy without the endorsement and consensus of the PDWG community. 

 

 

This worked for ripe with rpki when they took it to a members vote outside of 
the pdp… why not here?

 

What worked in RIPE does not necessarily have to work here and we have shared 
the same sentiments with Jordi within the PDWG discussions.

 

Cheers

Noah

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Even if a transfer policy is adopted, *before* any transfer AFRINIC has the 
right to verify the resources are being used according to the policies, RSA, 
documentation/justification provided when it was allocated/assigned, etc., etc. 

 

If the resources don’t follow the rules, the RIR (not just in the case of 
AFRINIC) has the right to enforce (before the transfer) the rules or reclaim 
the resources.

 

Each RIR has sligtly different rules clearly, but in no case, a transfer policy 
shall be allowed to be used as a way to circumvent the existing rules of the 
origin RIR!

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 1/8/21 15:01, "Taiwo Oye"  escribió:

 

Thank you @andrew.

 

It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and 
pass a transfer policy

- point 2

 

 

On Aug 1, 2021, at 13:38, Andrew Alston  wrote:

 

It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and 
pass a transfer policy.

 

Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this 
situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer 
out - problem solved.

 

It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which the 
community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if AfriNIC 
has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely zero risk 
in this approach.

 

Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of other legal 
action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from the current 
legal situation



I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its 
members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been echoed 
by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should therefore stand 
that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said risk if it is within 
their powers to do so

 

Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on the 
merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system should 
run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this situation.  
In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be nothing short 
of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members mitigate their 
risks as they see fit





Andrew  

 

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Taiwo Oye 
Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM
To: Paul Wollner 
Cc: arin-discuss ; secretariat ; 
Community Discuss ; apnic-talk 
; ripe-list ; Members Discuss 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration 
to other RIRs 

 

Good day all, 

 

I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has been 
watered down now).

 

If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards a 
financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only right 
to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry afloat. 

Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to save 
the region. 

I will like the community to see this as “option 1”. 

 

Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so 
likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to carry 
out its duties?

 

If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. 

 

If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of the 
financial breakdown. 

 

That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward and 
have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. 




On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner  wrote:

 

 

Hello community

 

I think I  misused the word “take over” to spike some unfortunate sentiments.

 

Let me try this again:

In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by 
staff or infrastructure), to perform it’s core registration service function 
for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid 
disruption to our African end users and businesses.

 

Regards

Paul

 

 

 

 On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 Paul Wollner 
 wrote 

 

Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. 

 

The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and 
especially by AFRINIC's  own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, which is 
available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC’s inability to keep 
providing its core registry functions due to its inability to meet its 
financial requirements.

 

I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's 
hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC’s core registry 
service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as well as 
commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC’s registration service 
for the time being, until litigation is settled some time 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Legal battles and police investigations take time. You need to be patient.

I've battled several times against different parties, including Spanish 
Government, Spanish DPA, etc., and even lost some of the cases in the 1st level 
courts, but having appealed up to the Constitutional Court, even if taking up 
to 5-6 years, it has been resolved (in my favor).

In life, there are no unimportant things, it all depends on the perspective, 
the environment, and what relation "those less important things" have with more 
important ones.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 30/7/21 10:55, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message , 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  wrote:

>I understand what you mean, but is not so simple ... I don't know
>Mauritius, but if the justice system works there ...

Who claimed that the justice system works there?

A police report was filed more than a year and a half ago about Ernest's
huge and fully proven embezzlement scheme, which amounted to tens of
millions of dollars worth of stuff.  Has he been arested?  Has he even
been charged with a single crime in Mauritius?

And yet you think that the Mauritian police and courts have nothing better
to do than to enforce the Mauritian version of GDPR against people who
-allegedly- "mis-used" a handful of phone numbers obtained from the
*public* WHOIS?!?!

Jordi, you're a nice guy, and I like you, but you could benefit from a
bit more perspective about what's important and what isn't.  Nobody
give a bleep about the possible mis-use of a handful of phone numbers...
nobnody in Mauritius and nobody anyplace else.  In the grand scheme of
things it's like worrying about a hangnail as you are bleeding to death.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

That's why I said "I don't know Mauritius ...". I'm sure that many countries in 
the world don't have so good coverage of that "reciprocity", but it is a matter 
of time, because that's important for every country in the world.

Saludos,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 30/7/21 22:05, "Owen DeLong"  escribió:



> On Jul 29, 2021, at 23:53 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:
> 
> I understand what you mean, but is not so simple ... I don't know 
Mauritius, but if the justice system works there and you fail to pay to a DPA 
fine, and there is not a reciprocal specific with US, do you believe you will 
be able to come to Mauritius without risking detention or do business with 
local entities?
> 
> May be Mauritius is too small and you don't care, but what about the EU?
> 
> Do you know that many fines imposed, for example fines about traffic, 
have reciprocity agreements among many countries so they can be sized from your 
accounts or even prosecuted via freezing of your properties? 

As I understand it, this is relatively uncommon in Africa.

Food for thought.

Owen




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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

The bylaws are plenty of evident mistakes …

 

Such as the understanding of the “community”, or use of “internet” instead of 
“Internet”, etc.

 

However the intent of 11.4 was “to resolve an urgent problem in Internet 
resources” (not issues in the PDP itself): The Board is allowed to change the 
rules (policies) with immediate effect -> this is not a Draft Policy Proposal, 
but a *pre-ratified Policy* (or if you want to say it in a different way Board 
writes a policy and immediately ratify it in the next second after they – the 
Board not the community - agree on the text).

 

The immediate effect meand immediate implementation.

 

Then, they are mandated to get the community endorsment. However the *only* way 
to get the community endorsement it is a DPP via the regular cicle. If that DPP 
fails to reach consensus, the the Board ratified and implemented policy falls, 
but whatever effect it has caused in the previous weeks/months, remain in 
effect.

 

 

Dear AfriNIC's Community, 

 

Please see my comments below, inline...

Le jeudi 5 août 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 a écrit :

Hi Sylvain,

 

 

Hi Jordi, 

Thanks for replying, brother.

 

 

11.4 literally says policy not DPP.

 

 

...exact, brother! but, btw, what is the lifecycle of 

a DPP? That's my point :-/

 

It simply appears that they used inappropriate 

terms, as you can see.

 

 

Also ready 11.5, otherwise you are taking it out of context.

 

 

Ok! thanks <https://afrinic.net/bylaws#b20-11>

 

~°~

[...]

 

11.4) Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 11.3 above, the Board may adopt 
such policies regarding the management of internet number resources where it 
considers that the same is necessary and urgent, having regard to the proper 
and responsible usage of these resources. [Amended at the 2020 AGMM]

11.5) Endorsement of the policy adopted by the Board:

i.Any policy adopted by the Board 
under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for 
endorsement at the next public policy meeting.

   ii.In the event that such a policy 
submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced 
or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in 
terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid.

 iii. 

[...]

~°~

 

...again, i understand it as a mean to varying the 

process...and i'm ok with it. If it's appropriately 

used, it could be a useful legal tool, same as CPM 

section 3.6.

 

Now, in this context of variation of an existant 

PPD, which clearly define the lifecycle of a DPP, 

the BoD consider that they can adopt something. 

...the thing can simply not be a policy; but a DPP. 

Are you getting me? again, a policy is a state of 

a DPP which has been submitted to the PDWG, 

get discussed during at least two weeks, get 

presented and discussed during PPM, get the 

decision of the PDWG's Chairs whether it reach 

the rough consensus or back to the list. If rough 

consensus is declared, it's sent to the list for a 

last call, during at least two weeks. If the consensus remains after that, it 
appears that 

the PDWG has *adopted* that DPP. Then a  

ratification report is sent to BoD, by the PDWG's Chairs, for consideration. 
Usually, the BoD ratify, 

but, exceptions occur. A ratified DPP becomes a 

Policy, then has to be implemented no more than six months after...when 
implemented it joins the 

other Policies into the CPM.

 

...i may be wrong, but those are the lines i have 

followed to reach to that conclusion.

 

Hope this clarifies something.

 

Shalom, 

--sb.

 

 

 

 [...]

 

 



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC’s registry service migration to other RIRs

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Sylvain,

11.4 literally says policy not DPP.

Also ready 11.5, otherwise you are taking it out of context.

 

 

 

Dear AfriNIC's Community, 

 

Please see my comments below, inline...

Le dimanche 1 août 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 a écrit :

Hi Noah,

 

Hi Jordi,

Thanks for your email, brother.

 

 

Your interpretation on this is wrong.

 

 

...imho! it's not so clear who is wrong, though :-/

 

 

Read my detailed email a few days ago.

 

11.4 Allows the Board to define any policy regarding Internet Resources that 
they believe is urgently needed.

 

 

...no! it allows the BoD to *submit* a DPP 

(not to *ratify*), under critical circonstances. 

 

It makes a huge difference, for me :-/

 

...yes! now, the BoD has also the right to act, 

promptly in case of crisis. The BoD becomes 

more accountable, with such additional freedom.

The BoD is allowed to varying the process in 

time of crisis. They had two alternatives...they 

did it, imho.

 

It's also worth noting that PDP prevail for Policy 

Development. 

 

 

This can be implemented ASAP the Board decides. The Board MUST also send the 
policy (11.5), as a policy proposal (because is the only way the PDWG works to 
reach consensus),

 

 

...brother, it can not be a policy, but a DPP. Right?

 

 

 

 to the PDWG for endorsement in the next meeting. If the PPM doesn’t endorse 
it, then the Policy will decay, but whatever happened meanwhile, will be 
“legal” in terms of the PDP.

 

 

...it remains a DPP submitted by the BoD.

If adopted by the PDWG, it has to be ratified 

by the BoD, then implemented by the Staff 

as a new policy and finally added to the CPM.

 

 

Now the question here is:

 

 

Right now, i don't see the need for an Inter RIR 

transfer policy...too risky! as an IPv4 cost $30; 

according to nra.help :'-( adding that it's now a 

*"valuable asset" owned by resource holders*.

 

...things have changed since RFG shared the 

results of his valuable researchs.

 

Since then, it appears that AfriNIC has recovered 

a number of IPv4 blocks...part of the IPv4 which  have been, sadly, 
misappropriated are still on the 

pipe...and also, it's possible to add a maximum 

of two /11 and two /12 to the available IPv4 

regional pool soon...

 

...right now, the problem to solve seems to be: 

 

~°~

How to protect the INRs assigned to AfriNIC 

to support the growth of its service region?

 ~°~

 

Shalom,

--sb.

 

1.   From past experience in the other RIRs, implementing such Inter-RIR 
policy, takes a minimum of 6 months, probably even more (it took 12 months in 
other RIRs), because there is a need to coordinate all the RIR systems. AFRINIC 
can’t “force” other RIRs to change their own agendas and workflows to address 
all the changes “faster”. AFRINIC could be lucky and because all the other 4 
RIRs already passed by this several times, may be the process is so much 
“adjusted” and fine tunned that it may be faster.

2.   I already suggested many times the Board to do that, when I saw that 
the consensus was not achievable. They ignored that. So I don’t think they want 
to pass this now, more when there are several proposals in discussion and could 
be discussed in a PPM in a couple of months from now, the AC reconstituted, and 
the appeals resolved, etc.

3.   The Board can meanwhile, take measures so the implementation of a 
possible “system” for an Inter-RIR proposal is advanced, in hope that one way 
or the other a proposal reach consensus.

4.   All that said, I expect that if the Board decides to draft that 
proposal/policy, they make sure that there is a clear statement that ensures 
that before any transfer, there is a confirmation of the resources being 
transferred are following the existing conditions in the RSA, CPM, etc., 
otherwise.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

[...]



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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Ronald,

I disagree. At a minimum they were against the equivalent to the GDPR in 
Mauritius, as they used information collected from whois, mail exploders, etc., 
for a different purpose that the one agreed.

I can publish my email and phone in any public mailing list (or whois), but you 
need my explicit and previous consent for using it for different purposes. Many 
similar cases have been fined by the DPAs.

Also, it is against the usage terms of the whois and CoC.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 29/7/21 0:43, "Ronald F. Guilmette"  escribió:

In message 
, 
Noah  wrote:

>In the last board elections where Elkins defeated Paul Wolner, there were
>multiple resource members who received phone calls from HongKong asking
>them to vote for Wolner.

In my view, these allegations were never proven, and even if they
were, so what?  Unless such "electioneering" is performed in a mostly
automated fashion... in which case they might well be considered to
be spammish... there's nothing illegal, immoral, or even unethical
about making calls and asking people to vote for one's preferred
candidates for some elected office.  (And indeed, we here in the U.S.
are routinely inundated with such calls on a daily basis, starting
generally about two months before each local or national election.)


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Code of Conduct - New Version

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I did a quick read. I need to review my notes/emails from previous rounds, but 
it will be nice if the staff can explain if something that we discussed in the 
list hasn't been considered, why.

At a first sight, still missing several key things, specially under the 
Mauritius law, such as personal data protection (by collecting emails, phones, 
etc. from mailing lists and whois) and using them for purposes such as spam (by 
email, phone or any other means), electoral campaigning, etc.

I really hope we can get further info about all that soon.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 13/10/21 9:09, "AFRINIC Communication"  escribió:


[French, Portuguese, Arabic versions below]

Dear colleagues,

It is with great pleasure that we announce  the publication of a new 
version of the AFRINIC Code of Conduct, with effect from 6 October 2021 at : 
https://www.afrinic.net/code

The revised Code of Conduct is the result of a review exercise conducted by 
the Governance Committee in consultation with  the AFRINIC community.

We encourage our community members to take cognisance of the content of 
this revised Code of Conduct which includes, inter-alia,  a new section on 
“Understanding the Warning Process on the AFRINIC mailing lists”. 


AFRINIC Communications

..

Chers collègues,

C'est avec grand plaisir que nous vous annonçons la publication d'une 
nouvelle version du Code de conduite d'AFRINIC, avec effet au 6 octobre 2021.

Le Code de conduite révisé est le résultat d'un exercice de revue mené par 
le Comité de gouvernance en consultation avec la communauté d'AFRINIC.

Nous encourageons les membres de notre communauté à prendre connaissance du 
contenu de ce Code de conduite révisé qui comprend, entre autres, une nouvelle 
section intitulée "Understanding the Warning Process on the AFRINIC mailing 
lists".


Communications AFRINIC

……….


زملائي الاعزاء،

إنه لمن دواعي سروري أن نعلن عن نشر نسخة جديدة من مدونة قواعد السلوك AFRINIC 
، اعتبارًا من 6 أكتوبر 2021 على: https://www.afrinic.net/code

مدونة قواعد السلوك المعدلة هي نتيجة لعملية مراجعة أجرتها لجنة الحوكمة 
بالتشاور مع مجتمع AFRINIC.

نحن نشجع أعضاء مجتمعنا على الإلمام بمحتوى مدونة قواعد السلوك المنقحة هذه 
والتي تتضمن ، من بين أمور أخرى ، قسمًا جديدًا حول "فهم عملية التحذير في القوائم 
البريدية لـ AFRINIC".


AFRINIC للاتصالات

 ..

Caros colegas,

É com grande prazer que anunciamos a publicação de uma nova versão do 
Código de Conduta AFRINIC, com efeito a partir de 6 de outubro de 2021.

A revisão do Código de Conduta é o resultado de um exercício de revisão 
conduzido pelo Comitê de Governança, em consulta com a comunidade AFRINIC.

Nós encorajamos nossos membros da comunidade a tomar conhecimento do 
conteúdo deste Código de Conduta revisado que inclui, entre outras coisas, uma 
nova seção sobre "Compreendendo o processo de advertência nas listas de correio 
da AFRINIC".


Comunicações AFRINIC
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on legal case - Freeze of Bank accounts

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Very good news!

 

I don’t know how these things work in Mauritius courts, but it will be good to 
ask that all the legal expenses are borne by the other party.

 

In addition to that, I believe AFRINIC must ask for image damages and 
compensation for the troubles created by the accounts freezing, because clearly 
this has been a reckless claim.

 

This is the only way to also show to others that the rules have to be followed 
and litigation is not the way to escape from rules.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 15/10/21 13:04, "Eddy Kayihura"  escribió:

 

Dear Colleagues,

 

Please see the message below that was shared with our members.

--

 

Kind Regards

 

Eddy Kayihura M.

Chief Executive Officer

African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) Ltd.



t: +230 403 51 00  |  tt: @afrinic  |  https://www.afrinic.net  |  
youtube.com/afrinicmedia

___

 

Vision: “A secure and accessible Internet for sustainable digital growth in 
Africa”

Mission: “To serve the African Internet community by delivering efficient 
services in a global multi-stakeholder environment”

Values: EPIC (■ Excellence ■ Passion ■ Integrity ■ Community Driven)

 

 

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may also be privileged or otherwise protected by law. They are intended solely 
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received this email by error please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and 
delete this e-mail from your system. You are also notified that disclosing, 
copying, distributing, or taking any action in relation to its contents is 
strictly prohibited and unlawful. By reading the message and opening any 
attachment, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and 
remedial action about viruses and other defects.

***

 



Begin forwarded message:

 

From: Eddy Kayihura 

Subject: [members-discuss] Update on legal case - Freeze of Bank accounts

Date: 15 October 2021 at 14:53:03 GMT+4

To: AfriNIC Discuss 

 

Dear Colleagues,

 

We are happy to inform our stakeholders that there was a court hearing today 
with regard to our application for removal of the freezing order against 
AFRINIC.

 

The Court, after considering our application and the case initiated by Cloud 
Innovation Ltd, has declared the order null and void. In short, AFRINIC has won 
this case against Cloud Innovation Ltd.

 

There is another Appeal to be heard on 11th November 2021. We will keep you 
informed of the outcome and we are quietly optimistic that justice will prevail.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Eddy Kayihura

Chief Executive Officer

African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC)

c...@afrinic.net

 

…...

 

Chers Collègues,

 

Nous sommes heureux de vous informer qu'une audience a eu lieu aujourd'hui au 
tribunal concernant notre demande de levée de l'ordonnance de gel des comptes 
d'AFRINIC.

 

Le tribunal, après avoir examiné notre demande et l'affaire initiée par Cloud 
Innovation Ltd, a déclaré l'ordonnance nulle et non avenue. En bref, AFRINIC a 
gagné ce procès contre Cloud Innovation Ltd.

 

Un autre appel doit être entendu le 11 novembre 2021. Nous vous tiendrons 
informés du dénouement et nous sommes optimistes quant à la justice.

 

Cordialement,

 

Eddy Kayihura

Directeur général

Le Centre d'information du réseau africain

c...@afrinic.net

……...

 

زملائي الاعزاء،

 

يسعدنا إبلاغ أصحاب المصلحة لدينا أنه كانت هناك جلسة استماع اليوم فيما يتعلق 
بطلبنا لإزالة أمر التجميد ضد AFRINIC.

 

أعلنت المحكمة ، بعد النظر في طلبنا والقضية التي رفعتها شركة Cloud Innovation 
Ltd ، أن الأمر باطل ولاغٍ. باختصار ، فازت AFRINIC بقضيتها ضد Cloud Innovation 
Ltd.

 

هناك نداء آخر سيتم الاستماع إليه في 11 نوفمبر. سنبقيك على اطلاع بالنتيجة ونحن 
متفائلون بهدوء بأن العدالة ستسود.

 

AFRINIC للاتصالات

 

.

 

Caros colegas,

 

Temos o prazer de informar as nossas partes interessadas de que houve hoje uma 
audiência judicial relativamente ao nosso pedido de retirada da ordem de 
congelamento contra a AFRINIC.

 

O Tribunal, após considerar o nosso pedido e o processo iniciado pela Cloud 
Innovation Ltd, declarou a ordem nula e sem efeito. Em suma, a AFRINIC ganhou o 
seu processo contra a Cloud Innovation Ltd.

 

Há outro recurso a ser ouvido a 11 de Novembro de 2021. Manter-vos-emos 
informados sobre o resultado e estamos tranquilamente optimistas de que a 
justiça prevalecerá.

 

Cumprimentos,

 

Eddy Kayihura

Chefe do Executivo

O Centro de Informação da Rede Africana

c...@afrinic.net

 

 

Vision: “A secure and accessible Internet for sustainable digital growth in 
Africa”

Mission: “To serve the African 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Owen,

 

I’ve been silent till now on till now on all this.

 

However, I must say that you’re right that they didn’t violate the CoC, they 
did something presumable worst which may constitute criminal offenses (slander, 
defamation, etc., I’m not sure what is the best way to translate it from my 
Spanish knowledge about legal language, maybe even several presumable illegal 
acts and not just one).

 

It is clear that the intent from those documents is to be misread, as they are 
partial and as such contain untrue information.

 

I just hope that AFRINIC is able to use all that in the actual case or even a 
new one if required.

 

Note that I don’t agree with all what the Board is doing, and I really believe 
they took very wrong decisions (I’m even still waiting from Board answers on 
policy proposals and PDP related discussions for months, with shows a very poor 
willingness from the Board to resolve issues and cooperate in a productive and 
efficient manner with the community), but also don’t agree that using partial 
documents is the way to go.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 28/9/21 18:25, "Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

 

But the ones that produced and propagated the content didn’t violate your CoC 
either as they didn’t post it to your list.

 

Owen

 



On Sep 27, 2021, at 23:31 , AFRINIC Communication  wrote:

 

Dear Nigel,

 

We thank you for bringing this to our attention.

 

The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that produce 
and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and community.

 

We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support.

 

Regards,

 

AFRINIC Communication



On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard  wrote:

 

 

On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
Dear community members,
 
AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that 
contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
(https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html)
 and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet 
Registry for the African region.
I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that 
others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of 
context?

How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing damage 
and prejudice to AFRINIC?

Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out?

 
AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the 
said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving 
AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in 
respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources.
Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited 
communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each other 
on a COMMUNITY mailing list and discussing it.

 
 AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of 
Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of 
causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised.
Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited 
communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm 
causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?

 

-N

 
We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of 
conduct in their exchanges.
 
We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to 
date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven 
policies at the heart of AFRINIC.
 
The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that 
individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks.
 
Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of 
Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct
 
 
AFRINIC Communication
 
On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann  wrote:
 
Hi Omo,
 
Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the 
"clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?   
At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" 
(people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't 
write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) 
which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way 
there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up 
way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much 
less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more 
equally.
 
The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, 
community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Final Call for Comments on Code of Conduct

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi,

I've sent already a couple of emails to comms about my concerns on the CoC. I 
can only find right now the last one, but I've the feeling that my previous 
inputs haven't been considered.

I think it will be nice, when some inputs are not considered, to explain why, 
so to avoid misunderstandings, etc. Also, not getting inputs, doesn't help 
those that contribute to keep contributing (if you don't get feedback, if your 
inputs aren't considered, why you want to keep contributing?).

So, some of my repeated inputs:

1) The use of emails captured from mailing lists, whois, etc., to send spam, 
such as voting suggestions, should be explicitly cited as forbidden by the CoC.
2) Distribution of malware in any of the mailing lists.
3) Posting private emails without the express consent of the sender.
4) Posting commercial/advertising content (unless done in the scope of a 
sponsorship, for example in-person events).
5) Plagiarism.

Many of those things are typically illegal in most of the countries, but I 
think it should be made explicit in the CoC in order to avoid depending on any 
specific country.

Finally, I don't think this:
"Following a third breach, the subscriber will be removed from the mailing list 
for a period of three months." makes any sense, as the archives could be used 
to read the postings, resend by someone else, or use an alternative email 
address, etc.

I think instead it should be:
"Following a *third* breach, the subscriber may be removed from the list with 
no possibility of return."

And I've in any case my doubts that the CoC can be enforced in the policy 
mailing list, because that will be part of the PDP and the PDP has not any 
explicit authorization to enact such thing. We shall remember at all time the 
difference between community and membership.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 16/7/21 15:53, "AFRINIC Communication"  escribió:

Dear Colleagues,

Consistent with the Governance Committee’s Terms of Reference 
(https://afrinic.net/govcom#tor), the Committee had been requested by AFRINIC’s 
Chief Executive Officer to review the current Code of Conduct. 

On 31 March 2021, a Call for Comments was launched for one month.

The Governance Committee has considered the input received from the 
Community and thus proposes the following draft new Code of Conduct for the 
Community’s final review which shall be open for 3 weeks. 

Please comment on: https://afrinic.net/20210714-call-for-comment

The deadline for this final review shall end on 5 August 2021.

The Governance Committee looks forward to continuous beneficial engagement 
with its stakeholders.

Chairperson
Governance Committee
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Final Call for Comments on Code of Conduct

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Yes, clearly quoting is not plagiarism.

As said, using text from others, without citing it, it is an IP violation in 
many countries, but this is the same with many aspects of the CoC, in many 
countries, those are criminal/illegal actions. The CoC is just remembering that 
and reinforcing it just in case it happens in this scope, so there is no doubt 
or anyone that say "in my country this is not illegal".

Agree with your final comments. I don't know all the details of the Cloud 
Innovation case and I *personally* disagree that using the resources outside 
the region and/or leasing is acceptable, at least not with the current rules 
(we can change that via the PDP if the community agree). However, on top of 
that, it is clear to me that *following* existing rules (PDP, CPM, bylaws, RSA, 
etc.) is not only in the best interest of the community (and this includes 
Board and staff) and that includes proposing changes when something seems to be 
wrong, that's why we have the PDP and community consultancy on topics such as 
the CoC, AC composition, etc.

Nobody can be "prosecuted" for trying to improve things, or defend his/her 
bussiness or customers, even if they look "negative" to some. It is part of the 
rights of the community and, in general, freedom of speech and freedom of 
bussiness. And this can't be pre-judged as if it is on the "best interest" or 
not, because the community is diverse.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 17/7/21 4:19, "Owen DeLong"  escribió:



> On Jul 16, 2021, at 08:19 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've sent already a couple of emails to comms about my concerns on the 
CoC. I can only find right now the last one, but I've the feeling that my 
previous inputs haven't been considered.
> 
> I think it will be nice, when some inputs are not considered, to explain 
why, so to avoid misunderstandings, etc. Also, not getting inputs, doesn't help 
those that contribute to keep contributing (if you don't get feedback, if your 
inputs aren't considered, why you want to keep contributing?).
> 
> So, some of my repeated inputs:
> 
> 1) The use of emails captured from mailing lists, whois, etc., to send 
spam, such as voting suggestions, should be explicitly cited as forbidden by 
the CoC.

I agree with this.

> 2) Distribution of malware in any of the mailing lists.

While I am not a fan of item 13 (which I will outline later), so long as it 
persists, I think it is safe to say that everyone will generally agree that 
sending malware to the mailing lists is not acting in the best interests of the 
community.

> 3) Posting private emails without the express consent of the sender.

I agree with this.

> 4) Posting commercial/advertising content (unless done in the scope of a 
sponsorship, for example in-person events).

And this.

> 5) Plagiarism.

This would need to be addressed more specifically. Quotation of content vs. 
plagiarism is a very fine line and very subjective. Indeed, in copyright law in 
the US, courts still struggle with it since 1934. Absent clear guidance on 
where this line is drawn in this context, I think such a rule could be quite 
open to abuse.

I don’t see any problem with the PDWG co-chairs enforcing the CoC WRT the 
RPD list as they are charged with managing the PDP and given broad latitude in 
that mandate.

My problem with item 13 is not the spirit or intent as it is written, but 
in the ambiguity that exists about what is “in the best interests of the 
AFRINIC community” and how this statement could be abused in an effort to 
subjugate unpopular ideas or silence the voice of a minority opinion in the 
community.

Indeed, it seems quite clear to me in AFRINIC’s recent filings with the 
Supreme court that they intended to claim that my participation in the case on 
behalf of Cloud Innovation was contrary to the best interests of the community. 
While I will agree that my participation was not necessarily in the best 
interests of AFRINIC staff, I will absolutely insist that the best interests of 
the community were foremost in my mind as I took on this issue. The need to 
hold AFRINIC board and staff accountable to the rules as written is absolutely 
in the best interests of the community, no matter how inconvenient that fact 
may be for those seeking to act otherwise, even if they are executives or board 
members of the organization.

As such, while I support the idea behind clause 13 and have at all times 
complied with the spirit thereof (it is also present in the existing CoC). I 
think it is important that this rule come with safeguards to prevent it from 
becoming a tool of oppression.

Owen





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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

The NRO, manages a fund, if I recall correctly, contributed by the 5 RIRs, in 
order to secure sustainability/stability of any RIR in case of contingencies.

 

I guess this is a contingency that can apply to that fund, so a “loan” can be 
provided to pay any operational expenses while the AFRINIC accounts are frozen.

 

So, no magic to obtain fund to continue operations, and in such way that no new 
court orders could froze them again, because is not “AFRINIC” money, and don’t 
need to pass by the AFRINIC accounts.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

Greetings to all

While we respect that AFRINIC just held a meeting on the issue, can we expect 
sooner or later a report from the registry about how the meeting went? And most 
especially, I think the community deserves clarity about the identified 
"alternative means" as we would all like to know more about these projected 
financial actions. I hope that we can observe more efforts from AFRINIC to 
ensure transparency on its decisions and on whatever action it may choose to 
commit.




Respectfully,
Christian

 

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 1:34 PM Paul Wollner  
wrote:

Dear Chair,

 

Would you care to share with the community where this alternative source of 
funding is coming from? Are these funds coming from other AFRINIC reserves?

 

How will this impact the day to day operations in AFRINIC?

 

Regards

Paul Wollner

 

 

 

 

 

 On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 18:25:40 +0200  wrote 

 

Dear AFRINIC Members, 

AFRINIC has been notified by one of its bank that its accounts have 
been temporary frozen due to legal action by Cloud Innovation 
Ltd. AFRINIC has not yet received the relevant information on this 
matter showing the basis of Cloud Innovation Ltd's claims, and 
AFRINIC has not yet been given the opportunity to respond to this 
action. It will, at the first opportunity, exercise all legal rights 
available to it before the Court. 

The Board of Directors held an urgent meeting last night. It 
identified alternate means of funding so that the company can cover 
the financial expenses incurred to run its services. 

Regards, 

Subramanian Moonesamy 
Chairman, 
AFRINIC Board of Directors 


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Yep ... I just saw your email.

I don't know why (asked staff several times), I always get the emails from 
AFRINIC lists 10-15 minutes late (even my own emails). I'm sure is not my 
server, as it doesn't happen to me with several hundreds of other lists from 
IETF, ISOC, and all the other RIRs, to mention just a few!

El 27/7/21 21:43, "Frank Habicht"  escribió:

Hi Jordi,

On 27/07/2021 22:30, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
> This will be very simple to resolve (not taking a position in one side or 
the other because I don't have all the real facts and documents).
> 
> The original justificacion of the request of the resources I don't think 
it had so many "secret" and "confidential" details. After several years if any 
"secrets" were there, probably aren't longer something that can't published now.
> 
> So why not CI, voluntarely publish that information? I don't have any 
stance on this game, but if I was CI, this will be the best way to probe my 
points.

it seems 4 minutes earlier I suggested same to Owen.

> Otherwise, I will suggest that AFRINIC asks the court to incorporate that 
in the proceedings if is not there already, this way, whatever is the result of 
the case, everybody will know it. At least in the countries I know, the results 
of the cases are public, as well as the documents that were incorporated during 
all the process: transparency.

I don't know whether or not (under the Mauritius legal system) the
information/documents will become public.
I certainly would like to have AfriNIC ask the courts to consider them.
I was hoping that was clear from my previous emails.


Frank



> 
> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
>  
>  
> 
> El 27/7/21 21:12, "Frank Habicht"  escribió:
> 
> Hi Owen,
> 
> On 27/07/2021 19:09, Owen DeLong wrote:
> >> On Jul 27, 2021, at 00:26 , Frank Habicht  
wrote:
> >>> It also serves more end users than the population of all of those
> >>> countries combined. What is your point?
> >>
> >> "serves" ...?
> > Yes.>> with connectivity?
> > 
> > In some cases.
> 
> I'll just mentally insert the word "few" in there, because i haven't
> seen any yet.
> 
> 
> >> Or by "buying" IPv4 addresses one place and "selling"/leasing them
> >> another place.
> > 
> > By providing a variety of services, some of which include IP 
address management
> > independent of connectivity.
> 
> "variety of services"
> So my first thought was to press  and the key between v and n
> and then  and the key between a and d
> 
> gosh, at the risk of getting my hand slapped, just to make sure i'm
> understood : BS - bullshit!
> 
> 
> "IP address management"
> putting something into AfriNIC's Whois / IRR ?
> reverse DNS delegations?
>  [ probably only at extra cost (wild guess) ]
> Using AfriNIC's auth DNS servers, by just updating domain: objects?
> 
> 
> >> this is to me closer to speculation than the stated intention of
> >>
> >> 1. the resource we take are using in africa.
> >> 2. we are investing in africa.
> > 
> > We are definitely investing in Africa. That statement remains true.
> 
> No doubt.
> Lawyers in Mauritius.
> 
> 
> > Regarding the former statement, things do change over time.
> 
> Agree.
> Also validity of justifications of IPv4 space.
> I maintain this:
> - I have no idea how it was justified.
> - I have no right to see this justification.
> - I consider it likely that commitments have been made.
> - I consider it likely that not all were - and still are - fulfilled.
> 
> > At the time the statement was made, it was true.
> 
> I do currently believe that.
> 
> > Today, the statement “many of the resources we received from 
AFRINIC are being used in Africa” would be more accurate.
> 
> I'm still not too sure about my English knowledge. Especially about
> "many". I generally encourage people to be as specific as possible.
> Can I interpret this as "more than three IPv4 addresses we received 
from
> AFRINIC are bein

Re: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

This will be very simple to resolve (not taking a position in one side or the 
other because I don't have all the real facts and documents).

The original justificacion of the request of the resources I don't think it had 
so many "secret" and "confidential" details. After several years if any 
"secrets" were there, probably aren't longer something that can't published now.

So why not CI, voluntarely publish that information? I don't have any stance on 
this game, but if I was CI, this will be the best way to probe my points.

Otherwise, I will suggest that AFRINIC asks the court to incorporate that in 
the proceedings if is not there already, this way, whatever is the result of 
the case, everybody will know it. At least in the countries I know, the results 
of the cases are public, as well as the documents that were incorporated during 
all the process: transparency.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 27/7/21 21:12, "Frank Habicht"  escribió:

Hi Owen,

On 27/07/2021 19:09, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> On Jul 27, 2021, at 00:26 , Frank Habicht  wrote:
>>> It also serves more end users than the population of all of those
>>> countries combined. What is your point?
>>
>> "serves" ...?
> Yes.>> with connectivity?
> 
> In some cases.

I'll just mentally insert the word "few" in there, because i haven't
seen any yet.


>> Or by "buying" IPv4 addresses one place and "selling"/leasing them
>> another place.
> 
> By providing a variety of services, some of which include IP address 
management
> independent of connectivity.

"variety of services"
So my first thought was to press  and the key between v and n
and then  and the key between a and d

gosh, at the risk of getting my hand slapped, just to make sure i'm
understood : BS - bullshit!


"IP address management"
putting something into AfriNIC's Whois / IRR ?
reverse DNS delegations?
 [ probably only at extra cost (wild guess) ]
Using AfriNIC's auth DNS servers, by just updating domain: objects?


>> this is to me closer to speculation than the stated intention of
>>
>> 1. the resource we take are using in africa.
>> 2. we are investing in africa.
> 
> We are definitely investing in Africa. That statement remains true.

No doubt.
Lawyers in Mauritius.


> Regarding the former statement, things do change over time.

Agree.
Also validity of justifications of IPv4 space.
I maintain this:
- I have no idea how it was justified.
- I have no right to see this justification.
- I consider it likely that commitments have been made.
- I consider it likely that not all were - and still are - fulfilled.

> At the time the statement was made, it was true.

I do currently believe that.

> Today, the statement “many of the resources we received from AFRINIC are 
being used in Africa” would be more accurate.

I'm still not too sure about my English knowledge. Especially about
"many". I generally encourage people to be as specific as possible.
Can I interpret this as "more than three IPv4 addresses we received from
AFRINIC are being used in Africa” ?


>> which is a quote from
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/004161.html
> 
> Yes… It’s a 7 year old statement which was true at the time.

And I believe so was the justification for IPv4 addresses - at the time.
Currently, I believe that. That back then the justification was ok.


>> and which I understand was good reason to receive IPv4 addresses.
>> *was*
>> when it was true.
> 
> And today, a good reason to keep the addresses is:
> We use the addresses to number internet connected hosts on our own and 
our customers networks.

"own network" ?
I believe that in your home area it would be a very valid question to
ask: "which AS is that?" (ie on nanog)

"customers networks."
"customer" certainly not in terms of connectivity.
[ to be specific: for 99% of traffic towards these IPs [1], I hazard the
  guess that it doesn't pass through CI connectivity.]

but "customer" instead only in terms of leasing IP addresses.
which you (CI) got the right to do when getting them from AfriNIC in the
first place??? I beg to doubt!!!

And I think this is what it's all about. CI interpretation vs AfriNIC
interpretation. And I think that latter is shared with a majority of the
community.

> This is a perfectly valid justification for addresses and there is no 
basis in current policy to deny it and
> it remains a true statement to this day.

If
it was a perfectly valid justification to provide addresses to CI's
"customers" - without the "customers" receiving (for all the duration of
the lease) any services but the lease of IPv4 addresses (not counting
BS-"IP address management"), and with that fact (of leasing) being
  

Re: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

By the way, if some parts of the justification are still "secret", then we 
could probably live knowing only part of them, redacting the confidential parts.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 27/7/21 21:36, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

This will be very simple to resolve (not taking a position in one side or 
the other because I don't have all the real facts and documents).

The original justificacion of the request of the resources I don't think it 
had so many "secret" and "confidential" details. After several years if any 
"secrets" were there, probably aren't longer something that can't published now.

So why not CI, voluntarely publish that information? I don't have any 
stance on this game, but if I was CI, this will be the best way to probe my 
points.

Otherwise, I will suggest that AFRINIC asks the court to incorporate that 
in the proceedings if is not there already, this way, whatever is the result of 
the case, everybody will know it. At least in the countries I know, the results 
of the cases are public, as well as the documents that were incorporated during 
all the process: transparency.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 27/7/21 21:12, "Frank Habicht"  escribió:

Hi Owen,

On 27/07/2021 19:09, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> On Jul 27, 2021, at 00:26 , Frank Habicht  wrote:
>>> It also serves more end users than the population of all of those
>>> countries combined. What is your point?
>>
>> "serves" ...?
> Yes.>> with connectivity?
> 
> In some cases.

I'll just mentally insert the word "few" in there, because i haven't
seen any yet.


>> Or by "buying" IPv4 addresses one place and "selling"/leasing them
>> another place.
> 
> By providing a variety of services, some of which include IP address 
management
> independent of connectivity.

"variety of services"
So my first thought was to press  and the key between v and n
and then  and the key between a and d

gosh, at the risk of getting my hand slapped, just to make sure i'm
understood : BS - bullshit!


"IP address management"
putting something into AfriNIC's Whois / IRR ?
reverse DNS delegations?
 [ probably only at extra cost (wild guess) ]
Using AfriNIC's auth DNS servers, by just updating domain: objects?


>> this is to me closer to speculation than the stated intention of
>>
>> 1. the resource we take are using in africa.
>> 2. we are investing in africa.
> 
> We are definitely investing in Africa. That statement remains true.

No doubt.
Lawyers in Mauritius.


> Regarding the former statement, things do change over time.

Agree.
Also validity of justifications of IPv4 space.
I maintain this:
- I have no idea how it was justified.
- I have no right to see this justification.
- I consider it likely that commitments have been made.
- I consider it likely that not all were - and still are - fulfilled.

> At the time the statement was made, it was true.

I do currently believe that.

> Today, the statement “many of the resources we received from AFRINIC 
are being used in Africa” would be more accurate.

I'm still not too sure about my English knowledge. Especially about
"many". I generally encourage people to be as specific as possible.
Can I interpret this as "more than three IPv4 addresses we received from
AFRINIC are being used in Africa” ?


>> which is a quote from
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/004161.html
> 
> Yes… It’s a 7 year old statement which was true at the time.

And I believe so was the justification for IPv4 addresses - at the time.
Currently, I believe that. That back then the justification was ok.


>> and which I understand was good reason to receive IPv4 addresses.
>> *was*
>> when it was true.
> 
> And today, a good reason to keep the addresses is:
> We use the addresses to number internet connected hosts on our own 
and our customers networks.

"own network" ?
I believe that in your home area it would be a very valid question to
ask: "which AS is that?" (ie on nanog)

"customers networks."
"customer" certainly not in terms of connectivity.
[ to be specific: for 99% of traffic towards t

Re: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Owen,

Not speaking about this case but in general, even not in the RIRs/Internet 
business (I make an equivalence in the parenthesis).

When there are obligations (here bylaws, RSA, policies), for providing a 
service (here resources), and the information provided by the "receiving party" 
is not according to those obligations/rules, but false or partial information 
is used to obtain those resources, and the time demonstrates that the provided 
information was untrue or incomplete, even if there was a staff mistake to 
provide those resources because the conditions were not sufficiently met, it is 
perfectly legal to cancel the service.

There are examples of that in our environment: If I recall correctly, RIPE NCC 
has successfully got back resources from several LIRs that, for different 
reasons, have been in that situation.



El 28/7/21 5:00, "Owen DeLong"  escribió:



> On Jul 27, 2021, at 12:30 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:
> 
> This will be very simple to resolve (not taking a position in one side or 
the other because I don't have all the real facts and documents).
> 
> The original justificacion of the request of the resources I don't think 
it had so many "secret" and "confidential" details. After several years if any 
"secrets" were there, probably aren't longer something that can't published now.

We have already agreed that the original justification is no longer 
relevant and that, like any ISP in business for more than 8 years, things have 
changed and we have adapted.

> So why not CI, voluntarely publish that information? I don't have any 
stance on this game, but if I was CI, this will be the best way to probe my 
points.

Because it is no longer relevant.

> Otherwise, I will suggest that AFRINIC asks the court to incorporate that 
in the proceedings if is not there already, this way, whatever is the result of 
the case, everybody will know it. At least in the countries I know, the results 
of the cases are public, as well as the documents that were incorporated during 
all the process: transparency.

In reality, even if a curative submission is required (if the last filed 
justification to which I do not have access, TBH), I would suggest they simply 
modify their justification to the following:

We will use the addresses to number internet connected hosts on our own 
infrastructure and on our customers’ networks.

This is a justification which meets the letter of the law of the policy and 
which does not preclude leasing.

Owen





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Re: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

How such information could be confidential?

 

Everybody knows the details about the cost of resources, whois data is public, 
companies need to have records of their accounts, etc.

 

By the way, emails can’t be deleted from the archive, we already discussed that 
a couple of times, unless there is a court order asking for that.

 

Finally, this is not the PDWG.

 

 

 

Hello, 

 

This is a direct violation of the CoC. 

 

Disclosing such information and data without the company’s consent is a clear 
attempt of defamation and can have legal consequences on the concerned person. 

 

Having a business or other relationship with the said company does not give you 
the right to divulge such details on a public mailing list. That is quite 
appalling.

 

Please refrain from violating the CoC and attacking entities in such manner. It 
can only be troublesome. 

 

I am urging the PDWG chairs to act immediately by sanctioning the sender and 
deleting this delicate email from the list. 

 

 

Best, 

 

Le dim. 25 juil. 2021 à 15:39, Leo S  a écrit :

About Cloud Innovation Ltd I want to talk about their business model.

They got 7 Million IPv4 addresses from AFRINIC at a price of $10,000 USD per 
year, and then leased them to ISPs or end users at a price of ~2 USD/year/IPv4 
(large block in 2018 if Small block may be more expensive maybe $3 USD) and 
with an annual increase of 15% fee from the price

 

So the cost is $10,000 USD

Revenue is 7M x 2 = 14 Million

so it’s 15% profit

 

Part of the cost is spent on RIR community activities and seeking support from 
members, and money will be used to defeat those who oppose it. 

Are there any people in the world who don't love money? Those who accept their 
money will support them in the community. and questioned any action of 
discussion that would be detrimental to them.

 

Of course, this is Lu Heng.

He also plundered tens of thousands of IP addresses from RIPE and A few years 
later sold to vodafone and earned millions of dollars. He is smart and knows 
who should pay the money to.

 

To rent an IP address from Cloud Innovation Ltd, you do not need to use their 
network services and circuits. Exactly they don't provide network service. and 
I think 90% of IP addresses are used in North America and Asia

 

I don't know much about AFRINIC's policy. But in ARIN you must have a circuit 
or network service then you can rent an IP address from the provider.

 

The AFRINIC internal audit action may be detrimental to Cloud Innovation Ltd, 
so they started some network services in South Africa last year as Africa on 
cloud. but it's a small network. I think the revenue from these services may 
account for less than 10% of their revenue. so 90% of their revenue still from 
IPv4 address leasing business

 

It can be seen from their income that they have enough money to support the 
lawsuit against AFRINIC. And spend money in the community to fight for their 
address not to be revoked.

very sad AFRINIC is too poor 

 

By the way, I was also their customer before





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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on legal case

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Very good observations Paul.

 

My doubt here is if there was sufficient evidence for a “real disk of 
dissipation”. I doubt AFRINIC is such kind of organization where the Board can 
take the risk of doing so without consulting the membership. Otherwise, the 
Board could be committing presumable illegal actions, which may have criminal 
personal consequences for each them.

 

I’m not convinced the Court has a good understanding of what is AFRINIC and 
that if AFRINIC doesn’t have funds to continue operations, the consequences for 
all the Internet community, not just AFRINIC members, could be generating more 
damages than what the order is trying to protect.

 

Court orders must be always well balanced.

 

Regarding the arbitration, I may be wrong, but I don’t recall having seen that 
in any of the RIRs documents. Definitively it is a good point.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

I am not sure I understand why the reaction being given by so many people is to 
question or criticize the courts of Mauritius, I also wonder whether they 
include the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council (JCPC) in this questioning 
of capability. No doubt the fact that Mauritius can be painted as an 
internationalist jurisdiction and that it remains a commonwealth jurisdiction 
with appeals at the JCPC and I am surprised that nobody has attacked Mauritius 
as a colonial and post-colonial project or some other such epithet.

 

While I agree that generally we should wait to get more from the courts I can't 
help but identify a worrying trend of groundwork being laid to rally behind the 
court if it finds against Cloud Innovation and to launch a specious attack on 
the court if it finds for Cloud Innovation. This is quite deleterious. I am 
therefore going to reply to somebody whose good faith I do not doubt and who I 
am generally in agreement with on the big picture issues but who I fear is 
making adverse presumptions about the mechanics of legal systems at play. 

 

The freezing of the bank accounts is most certainly a truly startling
development and one that would most certainly NOT have happened in the
United States, or, I expect, in most other civilized countries, at least
not prior to a full trial on the merits and the actual conclusion of the
over-arching legal case.

 

There is nothing uniquely peculiar about a court granting an attachment or 
injunction against a litigants domestic bank accounts. Mareva injunctions 
(http://templegroup.mu/mareva-injunction-and-solid-evidence-of-a-real-risk-of-dissipation-of-assets-sun-pat-g-k-f-ors-v-thomson-c-f-ors-2019-scj-5/
 is a pretty nice write up from a non-Mauritius perspective) are certainly not 
unique to Mauritius - hell the term is from an English case. And I've managed 
to secure an interdict in South Africa on a bank account pending determination 
of a main action and just in the nick of time - funds on their way out the 
country, getting an interdict after hours on a Friday. The main reason it 
happens is if a court is satisfied that the litigant will dissipate their 
property or assets to frustrate the plaintiff by the time trial occurs. 

 

There are a couple of other reasons and a court granting an attachment or 
freeze on bank accounts and it usually speaks volumes about the party whose 
experiencing the attachment. Ships get attached all the time at the 
commencement of an action ("arrested" the ship is arrested but for obvious 
reasons not even the United States puts the physical ship in a county jail 
after arresting it) and counterfeit (or allegedly counterfeit) and patent 
infringing goods are possibly too easy to get an attachment on in many 
jurisdictions - and IP lawyers can argue about this for weeks on end.
Ultimately I am not sure why you are presuming this is a "development" related 
to Mauritius because it simply isn't. Unless you exclude the United Kingdom, 
Switzerland, Canada, Australia, Germany, Netherlands and France from your 
definition of "civilized countries" the assertion reeks of a Yankee 
mischaracterization. There is a broad scope to debate whether particular 
jurisdictions strike exactly the right balances and the like but I am not aware 
of any litigant other than Afrinic finding Mauritius to be a jurisdiction that 
they regret being subject to. Even if there is something a person doesn't like 
about Mauritius law or legal system little has changed since the decision to 
incorporate in that jurisdiction arises. I can off hand think of plenty of 
other jurisdictions where I'd be concerned about foreign firms being able to 
put me on a barrel through finding some basis upon which draconian measures are 
practiced for some cause of action or another. 

At present Apple is engaged in a little squabble where it has tried to tell the 
English courts that they can't restrain imports into the country or set license 
rates which Apple finds commercially unacceptable. Trust me if Apple persists 
in playing chicken with the English 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on the complaint lodged against AFRINIC at the Competition Commission of Mauritius

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I fail to understand how is possible, that a resolution from a public 
Competition Commission is not public, even redacting personal data if needed. 
In normal democratic countries, as I know, all those cases are published in 
their web site.

AFRINIC legal staff must take care of that.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 17/2/22 15:59, "Mike Silber"  escribió:

Thanks Eddy

There have been some interesting discussions on various lists regarding 
this issue.

To the extent that AFRINIC can share any of its submissions to the CCM 
[which were obviously persuasive], this will be appreciated and could close off 
any future discussion.

Regards

Mike

> On 17 Feb 2022, at 13:27, AFRINIC Communication  wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> An anonymous complaint was lodged against AFRINIC in September 2021 at 
the Competition Commission of Mauritius ("CCM") pertaining to alleged 
anti-competitive conduct on the part of AFRINIC with respect to the transfer of 
resources. 
> 
> The CCM had found no such restrictive business practice on the part of 
AFRINIC within the meaning of the Competition Act 2007; and the inquiry has 
been closed with no further action. This was documented in their letter dated 
22 December 2021, Unfortunately however, we cannot publicly share the CCM’s 
letter.  
> 
> As a community driven membership based organisation, there are 
committees, working groups and processes set in place to address any issues 
that might need to be addressed. 
> 
> We shall continue to collaborate with all institutions, government or 
otherwise, and continue to deliver on our functions as responsible Regional 
Internet Registry.
> 
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Eddy Kayihura,
> Chief Executive Officer,
> African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC)
> c...@afrinic.net
> 
> ………..
> 
> Chers collègues,
> 
> Une plainte anonyme a été déposée contre AFRINIC en septembre 2021 auprès 
de la Competition Commission of Mauritius ("CCM") concernant un comportement 
anticoncurrentiel présumé de la part d'AFRINIC en matière de transfert de 
ressources.
> 
> La CCM n'a trouvé aucune pratique commerciale restrictive de la part 
d'AFRINIC au sens de la loi sur la concurrence de 2007, et l'enquête a été 
classée sans suite. Ceci a été documenté dans leur lettre datée du 22 décembre 
2021, mais nous ne pouvons malheureusement pas partager publiquement la lettre 
de la CCM.  
> 
> En tant qu'organisation basée sur l'adhésion et dirigée par la 
communauté, des comités, des groupes de travail et des processus ont été mis en 
place pour répondre à toutes les questions qui pourraient être abordées.
> 
> Nous continuerons à collaborer avec toutes les institutions, 
gouvernementales ou autres, et à remplir nos fonctions de Registre Internet 
régional responsable.
> 
> 
> Cordialement,
> 
> Eddy Kayihura,
> Directeur général,
> Centre africain d'information sur les réseaux (AFRINIC)
> c...@afrinic.net
> 
> .
> 
> زملائي الأعزاء،
> 
> يسعدني أن أشارككم الحكم الصادر بالأمس ، 14 فبراير 2022 ، في قضية 
الاستئناف المرجع Cloud Innovation Ltd vs African Network Information Center 
(AfriNIC) Ltd. https://afrinic.net/ast/case9-judgement.pdf
> 
> تم رفع هذه القضية ردًا على خطاب أرسلته AFRINIC إلى Cloud Innovation 
Limited بتاريخ 10 مارس 2021 وفقًا لأحكام اتفاقية خدمة التسجيل (RSA) حيث أكدت 
AFRINIC أن Cloud Innovation Ltd كانت ولا تزال تنتهك RSA.
> 
> ينبع هذا الاستئناف من طلب Cloud Innovation Limited للأمر المؤقت ، والذي 
تم منحه في البداية لصالحها في 29 مارس 2021 ، ولكن بعد ذلك ألغاه القاضي الموقر 
في الدوائر في 07 يوليو 2021. استأنفت Cloud Innovation Limited ضد هذا الحكم ، و 
عُقدت جلسة الاستماع في 27 يناير 2022.
> 
> لا شك أن هذا يعد معلمًا أساسيًا لـ AFRINIC ، ونود أن نشكر الفريق وأصحاب 
المصلحة لدينا على دعمهم المستمر.
> 
> وببساطة ، فإن دائرة الاستئناف في المحكمة العليا لموريشيوس ، بعد أن نظرت 
في الحجج المقدمة من كلا الجانبين ، رفضت الاستئناف. بعبارة أخرى ، حازت AFRINIC 
على هذا النداء.
> 
> 
> 
> أطيب التحيات،
> 
> 
> إيدي كاييهورا ،
> الرئيس التنفيذى،
> المركز الأفريقي لمعلومات الشبكة (AFRINIC)
> c...@afrinic.net
> 
> 
> ……
> 
> Caros Colegas,
> 
> Tenho o prazer de partilhar convosco o julgamento mais esperado e 
favorável para a AFRINIC proferido ontem, 14 de Fevereiro de 2022, no processo 
de recurso ref Cloud Innovation Ltd contra African Network Information Centre 
(AfriNIC) Ltd.
> https://afrinic.net/ast/case9-judgement.pdf
> 
> Recordará que este recurso decorre do pedido de injunção provisória da 
Cloud Innovation Ltd, que foi inicialmente concedido a seu favor a 29 de Março 
de 2021, mas depois anulado pelo Meritíssimo Juiz das Câmaras a 07 de Julho de 
2021. A Cloud Innovation Ltd 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on the complaint lodged against AFRINIC at the Competition Commission of Mauritius

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

I’m not sure I was clear.

 

I understand that there may be confidential details from any of the parties, 
but not the overall claim and the overall decision.

 

It will be very strange, at least in democratic countries (I can understand 
that in dictatorial regimes, obviously), that such kind of claims are 
confidential or even the resolution, etc. Transparency is a must in democracy.

 

I don’t think it is good to have a RIR in a country where public authorities 
keep such kind of information confidential. It is extremely risky for the RIR.

 

For example, in the EU, all the complains for monopoly, GDPR, court decisions … 
(just to name a few), which affect either citizens or organizations are made 
public and if any personal data is in those documents, it is just redacted, but 
only the personal info – anything else is published openly.

 

 

 

 

El 17/2/22 18:16, "Amreesh Phokeer"  escribió:

 

Hi JORDI,

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 7:48 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:
>
> I fail to understand how is possible, that a resolution from a public 
> Competition Commission is not public, even redacting personal data if needed. 
> In normal democratic countries, as I know, all those cases are published in 
> their web site.

I guess we should keep an eye on:
 https://competitioncommission.mu/investigation/?status=completed

But I believe if the complaint was "confidential", it will not make its way to 
the register.

>From the CC website:
"Request for confidentiality implies that there shall be no detail of the 
complaint made in the Register of Complaints. Every column in the said register 
would be blocked out as “Confidentiality Requested”.

Cheers,

Amreesh



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on the complaint lodged against AFRINIC at the Competition Commission of Mauritius

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Arnaud,

 

As explained, in my opinion, the basis of the democracy is transparency. You 
can’t trust a country being democratic if there is no transparency.

 

We probably agree that after that trasparency, there are many other steps to 
build democracy, and that’s the reason why there are many ways to score the 
“democracy level” of different countries. My own country, Spain, is not in the 
best position and I countinuously fight in courts with the government and many 
instituions whenever I see anything is broken.

 

But if the basis (transparency) is not there in something so simple as a 
monopoly accusation … we have a problem and with that, what I’m calling is the 
legal AFRINIC staff to consider making a call to the government to change that, 
or otherwise, consider if there are other African countries that will better 
satisfy the democracy levels that AFRINIC needs.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 18/2/22 22:37, "Arnaud AMELINA"  escribió:

 

Hi Jordi,

 

What does democracy have to do with this? each country has its rules and as 
others said, AFRINIC and its lawyers should look for ways of disclosing their 
submission on this case.

 

I do think Mauritius is more democratic than many countries on the continent 
where you live… they just have some practices all may  not like.

 

--

Arnaud 

 

Le jeu. 17 févr. 2022 à 15:49, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss 
 a écrit :

I fail to understand how is possible, that a resolution from a public 
Competition Commission is not public, even redacting personal data if needed. 
In normal democratic countries, as I know, all those cases are published in 
their web site.

AFRINIC legal staff must take care of that.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 17/2/22 15:59, "Mike Silber"  escribió:

Thanks Eddy

There have been some interesting discussions on various lists regarding 
this issue.

To the extent that AFRINIC can share any of its submissions to the CCM 
[which were obviously persuasive], this will be appreciated and could close off 
any future discussion.

Regards

Mike

> On 17 Feb 2022, at 13:27, AFRINIC Communication  wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> An anonymous complaint was lodged against AFRINIC in September 2021 at 
the Competition Commission of Mauritius ("CCM") pertaining to alleged 
anti-competitive conduct on the part of AFRINIC with respect to the transfer of 
resources. 
> 
> The CCM had found no such restrictive business practice on the part of 
AFRINIC within the meaning of the Competition Act 2007; and the inquiry has 
been closed with no further action. This was documented in their letter dated 
22 December 2021, Unfortunately however, we cannot publicly share the CCM’s 
letter.  
> 
> As a community driven membership based organisation, there are 
committees, working groups and processes set in place to address any issues 
that might need to be addressed. 
> 
> We shall continue to collaborate with all institutions, government or 
otherwise, and continue to deliver on our functions as responsible Regional 
Internet Registry.
> 
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Eddy Kayihura,
> Chief Executive Officer,
> African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC)
> c...@afrinic.net
> 
> ………..
> 
> Chers collègues,
> 
> Une plainte anonyme a été déposée contre AFRINIC en septembre 2021 auprès 
de la Competition Commission of Mauritius ("CCM") concernant un comportement 
anticoncurrentiel présumé de la part d'AFRINIC en matière de transfert de 
ressources.
> 
> La CCM n'a trouvé aucune pratique commerciale restrictive de la part 
d'AFRINIC au sens de la loi sur la concurrence de 2007, et l'enquête a été 
classée sans suite. Ceci a été documenté dans leur lettre datée du 22 décembre 
2021, mais nous ne pouvons malheureusement pas partager publiquement la lettre 
de la CCM.  
> 
> En tant qu'organisation basée sur l'adhésion et dirigée par la 
communauté, des comités, des groupes de travail et des processus ont été mis en 
place pour répondre à toutes les questions qui pourraient être abordées.
> 
> Nous continuerons à collaborer avec toutes les institutions, 
gouvernementales ou autres, et à remplir nos fonctions de Registre Internet 
régional responsable.
> 
> 
> Cordialement,
> 
> Eddy Kayihura,
> Directeur général,
> Centre africain d'information sur les réseaux (AFRINIC)
> c...@afrinic.net
> 
> .
> 
> زملائي الأعزاء،
> 
> يسعدني أن أشارككم الحكم الصادر بالأمس ، 14 فبراير 2022 ، في قضية 
الاستئناف المرجع Cloud Innovation Ltd vs African Network Information Center 
(AfriNIC) Ltd. https://afrinic.net/ast/case9-judgement.pdf
 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Update on the complaint lodged against AFRINIC at the Competition Commission of Mauritius

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Democracy = Transparency

In this specific case, a monopoly accusation has nothing to be hidden. I fully 
agree with retracting personal data, but NOTHING ELSE.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 18/2/22 12:41, "Mark Tinka"  escribió:



On 2/17/22 17:47, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:

> In normal democratic countries, ...

What is a normal democratic country?

Mark.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] ID verification on the Database Working Group mailing list

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

That’s the point, we don’t have that problem in the IETF or any other RIR.

 

So, I think is fair that you look for solutions where you have problems or you 
may have them.

 

Anyway, I know that other RIRs are watching the verification process in AFRINIC 
so to implement also themselves, just as preventive measure, and I think it is 
very smart doing so.

 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 24/1/22 9:46, "Mike Silber"  escribió:

 

Andrew

 

You make some good points. Not sure if the IETF also has an issue with 
sock-puppets, astroturfing and posters using pseudonyms?Maybe you can enlighten 
us?

 

My personal view is that the key point that is missing [and the *real* issue on 
the mailing list] is not identity verification, but failure to disclose 
affiliation.

 

Along with the suggestions you made [code of conduct, well enforced] is a 
disclosure requirement [see ICANN’s SOI / statement of interest process for all 
working groups as an example].

 

I have no issue with comments from users using pseudonyms - provided they have 
a complete SOI setting out their affiliations to avoid the *real* concern with 
such users, namely sock-puppets and astroturfing.

 

Looking forward to your feedback.

 

Mike



On 24 Jan 2022, at 09:22, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss 
 wrote:

 

If AfriNIC chooses to remove me from the lists because I refuse to hand over ID 
documents – while they are quite ok with taking my money as an authorized admin 
contact – then in effect, they are no longer providing the service that a full 
RIR providers to other members, based on a requirement that they have no 
mandate to implement.

 

AfriNIC cannot guarantee the security of information provided.

AfriNIC has no way to verify that the documents submitted are valid

AfriNIC has no mandate from its member base to request for and hold sensitive 
personal information.

 

To be blunt – I will be giving AfriNIC no such documents – if they choose to 
remove me from the lists and remove my say in this community and in their 
processes as a result – either admit at that point that AfriNIC is no more than 
a book keeper to me – and discount my fees accordingly – or – I will take 
whatever action I deem necessary to deal with what I view as a flagrant, 
unsanctioned move by an organization that is meant to be bottom up but has now 
just lost the plot.

 

I might point out that – no other RIR has such a requirement.  Nor does the 
IETF.  What they do to solve the issues on their lists is they enforce a code 
of conduct, complete with an appeal process and a sergeant at arms who’s job it 
is to deal with violations of the code of conduct.  They sure as hell don’t ask 
for sensitive documents to prove who people are – that’s insane.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss  
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:51 PM
To: AFRINIC Communication 
Cc: Community Discuss 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] ID verification on the Database Working Group 
mailing list

 

The form requires one to agree to submit to an unspecified online identity 
verification process. This is not reasonable. The process should be spelled out 
in detail prior to demanding that someone agree to submit to it. 

 

While I favor a reasonable identity verification process, the document linked 
has no relationship to such a thing and is, instead a contract of attainder 
which should not be allowed. 

 

Owen

 

 

On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:46, Owen DeLong  wrote:



The requirements are expressed in sexist terms. Arguably a violation of the 
very CoC it alleges to bind one to strict adherence. 

 

Perhaps this should be reviewed and amended?

 

Owen

 

 

On Jan 20, 2022, at 04:52, AFRINIC Communication  wrote:

Dear colleagues,

AFRINIC is now introducing  an ID verification process for our mailing lists. 
This is part of our “Know Your Customer” (KYC) measures that aims at addressing 
any abuses on the AFRINIC community mailing lists and making our online 
community a place where people can better engage and learn from and with their 
peers.

The ID verification will start its application with the Database Working Group 
mailing list and will follow a simple process, before embarking on the other 
AFRINIC community mailing lists. Thank you for your constructive feedback as we 
seek to continue improving the process.

You are kindly invited to start the process by filling out this form: 
https://verification.afrinic.net/

Subscribers to this mailing list have until the 20th of February 2022 to 
complete their ID verification.

We encourage all subscribers to take necessary steps before the above timeframe 
has elapsed.

Kindly note that after the 20th of February 2022, the messages of the 
subscribers who have not completed the KYC check will be automatically rejected.

Regards,
AFRINIC Team

……..

Chers collègues,

AFRINIC introduit un processus de vérification d'identité pour nos listes de 
diffusion. Ceci fait 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] AFRINIC PDWG Co-Chair Selection Candidates Matrix

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Ish,

 

While the number of emails is significative, I was not looking into just 
counting them. Also, you will need to point how many each year, if they are 
related to specific proposals, and so many variables, that, as you very well 
said “Do read these emails …”.

 

Also, to be fair, we will need to look into participation in the PPMs, which is 
not so easy as just reading the emails in the RPD archive, as you will need to 
find and look at the videos of 3–4-year meetings. It may happen also (same as 
for emails) that the participation was many years ago, and recently the 
candidates have participated less, so they are not necessarily up-to-date with 
the PDWG situation.

 

Thinks that we should also know, is if they have participated in the Board, 
Appeal Committee, or other similar bodies (not just in this RIR).

 

I think when you’re a candidate, you really should invest some time in develop 
a specific set of information for the position you are aiming for (in support 
for your candidacy).

 

What I think we should be looking for, in summary, is *experience* in the PDP 
and related activites. For example, “what you do on your daily job that is 
related to Number Resources?”.

 

Last bit, I don’t think having been or not a co-author of proposals is that 
much important, and in fact, I believe none of the candidates have been (or 
again, they didn’t mention it, unless I missed it).

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 20/5/22, 10:53, "Ish Sookun"  escribió:

 

Dear all,

 

I had a look at the profiles of the four nominees.

 

I also searched the AFRINIC RPD mailing list archive to see if the nominees 
have contributed to policy discussions.

 

Darwin Da Costa

6 emails between 2019 - 2021

 

Benjamin Mutemi Mutua

Zero contribution

 

Chuene Alfred Semono

Zero contribution

 

Prof. Nasir Faruk

15 emails between 2019 - 2021

 

Do read these emails if you want to evaluate the candidates further.

 

Regards,


———

 

Ish Sookun

 

Systems Architect @ La Sentinelle Ltd

 



On 19 May 2022, at 18:02, AFRINIC Policy Liaison  
wrote:

 

Dear PDWG,

 

We reached out to the nominators/seconders of the 4 nominees and have 
summarised the outcome in the table below.

 

We now request the PDWG to move forward to shortlist and select their candidate 
for the PDWG Co-chair. The CVs of the candidates will be published on the 
AFRINIC website shortly. 

 

Kind Regards

Policy Liaison Team 

 



Cher PDWG

 

Nous avons contacté les personnes qui ont proposé  les candidats ainsi leurs 
seconds, et ceux pour les 4 candidats et avons résumé les réponses dans le 
tableau ci-dessous.

 

 

Nous demandons maintenant au PDWG de procéder à la présélection et ensuite de 
sélectionner le prochain coprésidence du PDWG. Les CV des candidats seront 
publiés prochainement sur le site de l'AFRINIC.

 

Cordialement,

Policy Liaison Team 




-- 
AFRINIC Policy Liaison.
t: +230 403 51 00 | f: +230 466 6758 | tt: @afrinic | w:www.afrinic.net
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