Re: [computer-go] Positions illustrative of computer stupidity ?

2006-11-23 Thread Rémi Coulom
David Fotland wrote: Many Faces plays L10, which looks like it also breaks both ladders. -David Thanks for testing. What if Black replies with K9 ? It looks like K9 restores both ladders (to my naive eye). What about the first position I posted, where more tempting moves are available

Re: [computer-go] Positions illustrative of computer stupidity ?

2006-11-26 Thread Rémi Coulom
alain Baeckeroot wrote: Le mercredi 22 novembre 2006 20:44, Rémi Coulom a écrit : Hi, Hi Rémi I am in search of Go positions that are easy to understand for humans, and difficult for computers. One incredibly simple example for human, where GNU Go horribly fails. The only

Re: [computer-go] Anchor Player

2006-12-22 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: Hi Steve, What you fail to take into considerations is that a monte/carlo player may ruin it's chances before the weaker player has a chance to play a bad move. The monte carlo player sees all moves as losing and will play almost randomly. I don't agree. Here is the

Re: [computer-go] Fw: Compensation for handicap plays?

2006-12-28 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: I'll take a final poll - speak now or forever hold your peace! Should we: 1. Give white N-1 stones at end of game. (where N = handicap) 2. Give white N stones at end of game. (N = handicap) 3. Give white N stones except handicap 1 case. 4. Not worry about giving

Re: [computer-go] New ICGA web site

2007-01-24 Thread Rémi Coulom
Nick Wedd wrote: Some results of Computer Go (and other computer games) events have long been available on the old ICGA web site at http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/icga/ . There is now a new ICGA web site at http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/ with fuller information on these events, including

Re: [computer-go] The dominance of search (Suzie v. GnuGo)

2007-04-06 Thread Rémi Coulom
Chrilly wrote: I think on 9x9 the superiority of search based programms is now clearly demonstrated. Its only the question if UCT or Alpha-Beta is superior. Hi Chrilly, Thanks for your report. The question of UCT versus Alpha-Beta is not open any more in my opinion. The current state of the

Re: [computer-go] The dominance of search (Suzie v. GnuGo)

2007-04-06 Thread Rémi Coulom
Chrilly wrote: The main point of my mail was: Search works (at least in 9x9) well. I think we can agree on this point. Yes. For the UCT v. Alpha-Beta question there is a simple proof of the pudding: Sent us the latest/strongest version and we will try to beat it. I do not plan to

Re: [computer-go] Computer match time

2007-04-12 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 11:18 -0400, Jason House wrote: Not having byo yomi because it's tough to code isn't really a good argument. If we want (non-computer-go) people to take the results seriously, the game timing should be the same as what people naturally do. I

Re: [computer-go] The dominance of search (Suzie v. GnuGo)

2007-04-16 Thread Rémi Coulom
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also find this kind of information very interesting and useful. Now I have a better feel for what kind of scaling is realistic to try for and how to measure it. Putting some recent data points together, it look like giving Mogo 2 orders of magnitude more computer

Re: [computer-go] The dominance of search (Suzie v. GnuGo)

2007-04-16 Thread Rémi Coulom
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 5:26 AM Subject: Re: [computer-go] The dominance of search (Suzie v. GnuGo) [EMAIL PROTECTED] javascript:parent.ComposeTo(dhillismail%40netscape.net, ); wrote:

[computer-go] Amsterdam 2007 paper

2007-05-16 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I first thought I would keep my ideas secret until the Asmterdam tournament, but now that I have submitted my paper, I cannot wait to share it. So, here it is: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/Amsterdam2007/ Comments and questions are very welcome. Rémi

Re: [computer-go] Re: Amsterdam 2007 paper

2007-05-17 Thread Rémi Coulom
Álvaro Begué wrote: There are many things in the paper that we had never thought of, like considering the distance to the penultimate move. That feature improved the effectiveness of progressive widening a lot. When I had only the distance to the previous move, and the opponent made a

Re: [computer-go] Amsterdam 2007 paper

2007-05-17 Thread Rémi Coulom
Chris Fant wrote: I first thought I would keep my ideas secret until the Asmterdam tournament, but now that I have submitted my paper, I cannot wait to share it. So, here it is: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/Amsterdam2007/ Comments and questions are very welcome. I'd like to propose a potential

Re: [computer-go] Re: computer-go Digest, Vol 34, Issue 15

2007-05-18 Thread Rémi Coulom
David Silver wrote: Very interesting paper! I have one question. The assumption in your paper is that increasing the performance of the simulation player will increase the performance of Monte-Carlo methods that use that simulation player. However, we found in MoGo that this is not

Re: [computer-go] Re: Amsterdam 2007 paper

2007-05-22 Thread Rémi Coulom
Yamato wrote: Rémi, May I ask you some more questions? (1) You define Dj as Dj=Mij*ci+Bij. Is it not Aij but Bij? What does this mean? Yes, it is ! Thanks for pointing that mistake out. (2) You have relatively few shape patterns. How large is each pattern? 5x5, 7x7, or more? I

Re: [computer-go] Re: Amsterdam 2007 paper (final version)

2007-05-22 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I have just updated my web page with the final version of my paper: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/Amsterdam2007/ I have tried to improve it based on all your comments and questions, and those of the workshop reviewer. I thank you all very much for your interesting remarks. I have not

Re: [computer-go] Progressive unpruning in Mango 19x19

2007-05-24 Thread Rémi Coulom
Question for native English speakers: do you think this technique is best described by “progressive unpruning” or “progressive widening”? I used this term in reference to Tristan Cazenave's iterative widening and generalized widening (I should have cited him). See:

Re: [computer-go] analysis of UCT and BAST

2007-05-30 Thread Rémi Coulom
Łukasz Lew wrote: I'm not sure whether You have noticed, but my student made an empirical comparison between BAST, UCT and other formulas. It can be found here: http://students.mimuw.edu.pl/~fg219435/Go/ Best Regards, Lukasz Lew Hi Łukasz, You write that EGO_BAST seems to be a bit more

Re: [computer-go] UCT outside of go?

2007-06-04 Thread Rémi Coulom
Darren Cook wrote: Does anyone know of UCT being used in games other than go, or outside games altogether, such as travelling salesman problem, or some business-related scheduling/optimizing/searching problem domain? Thanks, Darren Guillaume has one paper titled Monte-Carlo Tree Search in

Re: [computer-go] Efficiently selecting a point to play in a random playout

2007-06-06 Thread Rémi Coulom
Álvaro Begué wrote: Actually, John had a better idea to do this. In two words: binary tree. The root represents the whole board, and it contains the sum of the probabilities of all the points (you don't need to force this to be 1, if you use non-normalized probabilities). This node points to

Re: [computer-go] Efficiently selecting a point to play in a random playout

2007-06-06 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: On 6/6/07, *Rémi Coulom* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if other people had thought about this before... Álvaro. Yes, I did it in the beginning. But I found that it is faster to divide by more than two. Currently, I

Re: [computer-go] Efficiently selecting a point to play in a random playout

2007-06-07 Thread Rémi Coulom
Darren Cook wrote: I've been messing around with where to apply heuristics. Candidates include: 1) In the UCT tree, since this is earliest in each playout. 2) In the moves beyond the tree (heavy playouts), since this is where most of the moves happen. Because this part is so speed-critical, ...

Re: [computer-go] Efficiently selecting a point to play in a random playout

2007-06-07 Thread Rémi Coulom
Peter Drake wrote: On Jun 6, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Rémi Coulom wrote: Also, if you have a clever probability distribution, the range of values for each move will be very large. For instance, here are two 3x3 shapes used by Crazy Stone (# to move): O O # # . . # O # Gamma = 143473

Re: [computer-go] Efficiently selecting a point to play in a random playout

2007-06-07 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jacques Basaldúa wrote: Rémi, are your values the result of learning in masters games? Yes. I took data from a learning experiment based on very few games. So there may be a little overfitting. Still, the ratio between the strongest and the weakest patterns is always very big. I'll run

[computer-go] Sylvain and David's paper about Mogo at ICML

2007-06-07 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, Their paper is available online: http://www.machinelearning.org/proceedings/icml2007/papers/387.pdf I thank Lukasz for letting me know. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] Depth dependent evaluation effects on monte carlo searches

2007-06-09 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: Darren Cook wrote: Hi Jason, In UCT the monte carlo searches (I find it clearer to call them the playouts) are always run to the end of the game. So they always accurately (well, as accurate as a random playout can be!) take sente in account. Therefore my understanding is

Re: [computer-go] OSS or Free Engines

2007-06-09 Thread Rémi Coulom
Joshua Shriver wrote: Anyone have a list and URL's for all of the open source and/or free engines? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_Go_programs Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

[computer-go] Interviews of Participants in the Computer Olympiad on YouTube.

2007-06-30 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, Here are some interviews from the Computer Olympiad in Amsterdam: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=computer+olympiade+amsterdamsearch= Maybe they had been posted here before, but I did not notice. Sorry if it is the case. Rémi

Re: [computer-go] Re: 9x9 games wanted

2007-07-08 Thread Rémi Coulom
Sil wrote: How about http://home.wwgo.jp/jp/minigo/ It seems that only 24 games are available. Is the whole collection available somewhere? Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] 9x9 games wanted and the next big challenge

2007-07-09 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: On Mon, 2007-07-09 at 10:10 -0700, terry mcintyre wrote: I concur with Christian Nilsson; handicap stones permit the win-loss ratio to approximate 50%, where it is more sensitive to improvements. As one tweaks the program, the progress would be measurable within a few

Re: [computer-go] Who's going to the Gifu Challenge?

2007-07-09 Thread Rémi Coulom
Ian Osgood wrote: From what I can tell, there has not been a clash of the Go titans since the 2003 Gifu Challenge, which had all of KCC Igo, Haruka, Go++, Goemate/Handtalk, Many Faces, GNU Go, and Go Intellect participating. (This was the last public competition for many of these programs.) It

Re: [computer-go] Re: Why are different rule sets?

2007-07-13 Thread Rémi Coulom
Nick Wedd wrote: According to the game records from the recent ICGA events in Amsterdam, the 19x19 events used Japanese rules with 6.5 komi, and the 9x9 games used Chinese rules, but with 6.5 komi. So I suspect not. All games were played with Chinese rules, with a komi of 6.5. Those who

Re: [computer-go] Kakegoto and CGOS

2007-07-16 Thread Rémi Coulom
Andrés Domínguez wrote: Hello everyone! After two years programming a complex go engine without success I have started a new one (kakegoto). I use an innovative approach, the program plays many random games, and then plays the move with more winning probability. Interesting idea. I want

Re: [computer-go] Hint for good Bayes book wanted

2007-07-23 Thread Rémi Coulom
chrilly wrote: I have a Phd in statistics. But Bayesian methods were at that time a non-topic. I know the general principles, but I want to learn a little bit more about the latest developments in the field. Bayes is now chic, there are many books about it. I assume also a lot of bad ones. Can

Re: [computer-go] GGMC Go v1.3

2007-08-01 Thread Rémi Coulom
Martin Møller Skarbiniks Pedersen wrote: http://www.gggo.jp/ggmc-v1.3.tar.gz (~200kB) DNS problems ? Resolving www.gggo.jp... failed: Temporary failure in name resolution. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] GGMC Go v1.3

2007-08-02 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hideki Kato wrote: Rémi Coulom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hideki Kato wrote: http://www.gggo.jp/ggmc-v1.3.tar.gz (~200kB) Hideki (gg) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kato) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] EGC2007

2007-08-11 Thread Rémi Coulom
Erik van der Werf wrote: On 8/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I organized side event Predict Professinal Moves at European Go Congress 2007. I made a brief and shallow summary (without any analysis) of the results and decided to post it here---in case someone is actually

Re: [computer-go] EGC2007

2007-08-15 Thread Rémi Coulom
Erik van der Werf wrote: It might be interesting to see how Rémi Coulom's move predictor does on these positions. Erik You can now donwload it as a GTP engine from the page of the paper: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/Amsterdam2007/ Rémi ___

Re: [computer-go] EGC2007

2007-08-16 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: I believe the original paper used 32 simulations from each point as part of its pattern... But the spirit of it (as I understand it) really is to bias the 1-ply move selection at the start of MC searches. (In Crazy Stone, just 3x3 patterns are used at deeper ply?) elife

Re: [Housebot-developers] [computer-go] ReadyFreddy on CGOS

2007-09-16 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: Yeah. An eye point is defined as an empty point where all four neighbors are the same chain. This prevents weak combos of false eyes, but does allow it to miss one kind of life. Do you mean that your program would fill black eyes there: #.#O. .##OO ##OO. O ? This

Re: [computer-go] Crazystone patterns

2007-09-20 Thread Rémi Coulom
Chris Fant wrote: I was not able to tell from the CrazyStone paper how the patterns are used in the playouts. Can anyone enlighten me? Does it simply select the move with the highest score? ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] Crazystone patterns

2007-09-20 Thread Rémi Coulom
Chris Fant a écrit : Does this mean that you need to calculate the Bradley-Terry probability for every legal move before selecting one on that probability? Isn't that expensive? Have you tried selecting only N legal candidates at random and then selecting one of those based on their

Re: [computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

2007-10-10 Thread Rémi Coulom
terry mcintyre wrote: IIRC, a few Microsoft researchers did some interesting work with SVMs and the prediction of pro-level moves. I've always wondered whether that could be integrated with UCT to narrow the search tree. Hi, This is what I do in Crazy Stone:

Re: [computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

2007-10-10 Thread Rémi Coulom
Andrés Domínguez wrote: 2007/10/10, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Andrés, You are right about null move of course. The assumption that other moves are = to the value of a pass is much stronger in GO than in Chess, yet ironically it's not as effective in Go. That was what i was

Re: [computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

2007-10-10 Thread Rémi Coulom
Rémi Coulom wrote: Andrés Domínguez wrote: 2007/10/10, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Andrés, You are right about null move of course. The assumption that other moves are = to the value of a pass is much stronger in GO than in Chess, yet ironically it's not as effective in Go

Re: [computer-go] best approach forward

2007-10-11 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: I believe Many Faces is probably stronger than Mogo but I don't know that this has been proven. Hi Don, I'd bet on Mogo. In case nobody noticed, Crazy Stone won a match against KCC Igo this summer, with 15 wins and 4 losses. The match was organized by Hiroshi Yamashita.

Re: [computer-go] best approach forward

2007-10-12 Thread Rémi Coulom
Ian Osgood wrote: On Oct 11, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Rémi Coulom wrote: In case nobody noticed, Crazy Stone won a match against KCC Igo this summer, with 15 wins and 4 losses. The match was organized by Hiroshi Yamashita. The games can be found in the KGS archives. http://www.gokgs.com

Re: [computer-go] Crazy Stone vs KCC Igo

2007-10-13 Thread Rémi Coulom
David Doshay wrote: Why would you use 6 of the 8 cores and not all 8? Cheers, David It is the desktop machine of a colleague. He was running one long computation on one core, and using it for mail, web browsing, etc. So I left 2 cores to him. Rémi

Re: [computer-go] Opening game strategies

2007-10-17 Thread Rémi Coulom
Erik S. Steinmetz wrote: I would like to thank everyone who responded on this thread. The pointers have been very helpful. I would also like to see that linked document, as the text describing the pattern value system looks interesting, and a longer description of it would be nice! If anyone

Re: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS

2007-10-23 Thread Rémi Coulom
Christoph Birk wrote: On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Olivier Teytaud wrote: http://www.lri.fr/~teytaud/cgosStandings.html If someone wants to test it, the port is 6919 on machine pc5-120.lri.fr. 10 minutes per side. But only try it if you want to take risks, it is almost surely not stable yet, and the

[computer-go] Crazy Stone on 19x19 CGOS

2007-10-27 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I have just connected Crazy Stone (CS-8-26-10k-1CPU). It uses 10,000 playouts per move, and runs on 1 CPU. It should finish all its games in less than 5 minutes. In my tests, it scores 41% against GNU Go 3.6 Level 10, and 73.5% against MoGo_release3 at 10k playouts per move (the playouts

Re: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS (CS vs MFG)

2007-10-28 Thread Rémi Coulom
Edward de Grijs wrote: The CrazyStone row has dissapeared because not enough games were played, so there will be a larger standard deviation around those values (I expect a 1 sigma value of about 50 elo. It would be interesting to incluse those numbers on every row (Don?)) Uncertainty about

Re: [computer-go] CGOS

2007-10-30 Thread Rémi Coulom
Christoph Birk wrote: It appears as if both CGOS servers crashed ... ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ cgos.lri.fr is still working, but the web page is not updated

Re: [computer-go] KGS: Sending game comments

2007-11-13 Thread Rémi Coulom
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: I think some possibility to send messages would be great. I could swear I saw MogoBot do this, but I couldn't find anything in the KGSGtp documentation. Hi, I believe MoGo sent its messages in the version string. Name and version of your program are the only

Re: [computer-go] KGS: kgs-chat GTP command in games

2007-11-14 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: On Wed, 2007-11-14 at 19:27 +0100, Petr Baudis wrote: Hi, is anyone successfully using the kgs-chat GTP command in games? I cannot get kgsGtp to send me the command when I make a comment inside a game (as the bot's opponent). I receive the command when I private-message

Re: [computer-go] CGOS archive 9x9

2007-11-26 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey a écrit : Many people have asked about the 9x9 CGOS game archive.I'll try to keep it up to date and it's partially automated at this point. It will probably always be a month behind since I archive by month. But I do have most of the Novembers games although it obviously isn't

Re: [computer-go] Computer Go tournaments - various

2007-11-27 Thread Rémi Coulom
Nick Wedd a écrit : FUTURE TOURNAMENTS I learned today about the UEC Cup ( http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/ ), a major Computer Go event that is now less than a week away. I wish I had known about it sooner, I would have listed it at http://www.computer-go.info/events/future.html, and maybe

Re: [computer-go] euler numbers

2007-11-27 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: Stuart, Here is the deal on euler numbers and implementations: It's difficult to find any articles on the web that you don't have to pay for. Hi, I remember I read a description by Mark Winands long ago:

[computer-go] How about organising a CGOS day ?

2007-11-30 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I thought it may be a good idea to decide on a day when everybody would connect to CGOS. Many programmers do not wish to let their program play forever on the server, so it may be interesting to decide on a day to connect, so that a high variety of programs can play against each other.

Re: [computer-go] New engine? From a Chess programmer perspective.

2007-12-04 Thread Rémi Coulom
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: If someone has factual data[*] about 9 x 9 performance of current bots I'll gladly revise the estimate on the webpage on my own. Mogo is around 2500 on CGOS: http://cgos.boardspace.net/9x9/cross/MoGo_psg7.html In Amsterdam, ajahuang (kgs 6d) played a few games

Re: [computer-go] Where and How to Test the Strong Programs?

2007-12-04 Thread Rémi Coulom
Robert Jasiek wrote: Where can one play the latest versions of MoGo or other, similarly strong programs? It is said that some programs are on KGS, but I cannot find them. How to find them? Is it possible to play against them as a human on CGOS? I, German 5d, would want to play even games on

Re: [computer-go] Where and How to Test the Strong Programs?

2007-12-04 Thread Rémi Coulom
Rémi Coulom wrote: Hi, 13x13 StoneCrazy is currently connected to CGOS (computer go room). It will stay there for about 24h. Rémi So far, it lost 1 game against 3d, and 2 games against 2d. In this game, it started a nice ko fight at move 69 (but lost): http://files.gokgs.com/games/2007/12

Re: [computer-go] ELO Ratings of move pattern

2007-12-05 Thread Rémi Coulom
Lars wrote: I have some questions concernig this paper of Remi: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/Amsterdam2007/MMGoPatterns.pdf 1. Which sense make the prior (Section 3.3 in the paper and where is the application? I understand it the way that you put 2 more competitions to each pattern in the

Re: [computer-go] Where and How to Test the Strong Programs?

2007-12-06 Thread Rémi Coulom
Christoph Birk wrote: On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Christoph Birk wrote: On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Don Dailey wrote: It would be awkward at best. I could build a client to do this, but the human would have to be willing to sit and play games at the moment they were scheduled. You are right ... it's very

Re: [computer-go] crazystone, mogo, go4++, greenpeep, valkyra or other strong programs on cgos19x19?

2007-12-08 Thread Rémi Coulom
David Fotland wrote: I'm working on Many Faces of Go 12 engine, which is an alpha-beta searcher, and it's strong enough now I'd like to some stronger competition on 19x19 CGOS to test against. Does anyone want to put up some strong programs? I know everyone prefers to work on 9x9 since it's

Re: [computer-go] Hall of fame for CGOS

2007-12-09 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: I'm not sure I used the program correctly - it's rather complicated and I'm not that great with statistics. If anyone is interested in the settings I used I can provide that. Hi, The only subtlety here, is that bayeselo is tuned for chess, and assumes that draws are

Re: [computer-go] Hall of fame for CGOS

2007-12-09 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: I put up a web page that displays EVERY player who has played at least 200 games on CGOS. It uses the bayeselo program that Rémi authored. http://cgos.boardspace.net/9x9/hof.html I'm not sure I used the program correctly - it's rather complicated and I'm not

Re: [computer-go] Hall of fame for CGOS

2007-12-10 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: Another example I found is the impressive Valkyria program. Version 2.7 won 92% of it's games, more than even the top rated greenpeep0.5.1. However, the average rating of Valkyria's opponents was only 1722. This is quite a difference. So Valkyria is rated only

Re: [computer-go] ELO Ratings of move pattern

2007-12-12 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: On Dec 6, 2007 11:38 AM, Rémi Coulom [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason House wrote: This may serve as a good test of if there is enough data to assign values to the patterns. I did not mention this in my paper, but you can

Re: [computer-go] ELO Ratings of move pattern

2007-12-12 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: On Dec 12, 2007 3:09 PM, Álvaro Begué [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 12, 2007 3:05 PM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 12, 2007 2:59 PM, Rémi Coulom [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [computer-go] Where and How to Test the Strong Programs?

2007-12-13 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: We may be able to borrow KGS data of well established players playing 9x9 games against each other to estimate this. Would anyone like to volunteer to do this? Bill Shubert kindly provided this data to me. I am working on a study about rating systems for the game of Go.

Re: [computer-go] Where and How to Test the Strong Programs?

2007-12-13 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: It would be great if you would provide recommendations for a simple conversion formula when you are ready based on this study. Also, if you have any suggestions in general for CGOS ratings the cgos-developers would be willing to listen to your suggestions. - Don My

Re: [computer-go] Where and How to Test the Strong Programs?

2007-12-13 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: I don't really know what you mean by one-dimensional. My understanding of playing strength is that it's not one-dimensional meaning that it is foiled by in-transitivities between players with different styles.You may be able to beat me, but I might be able to beat

Re: [computer-go] mean log evidence

2007-12-17 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: In Remi's paper on ELO ratings of moves, how is mean log evidence computed? Is that looking at the probability of the training set? e.g. if the selected moves have estimated probabilities of 1/e, 1/e^2, 1/e, and 1/e, then the log evidences would be -1,-2,-1, and -1 for a

Re: [computer-go] rotate board

2007-12-19 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I have not had time to study it in details, but I found this: http://fragrieu.free.fr/zobrist.pdf A Group-Theoretic Zobrist Hash Function Antti Huima September 19, 2000 Abstract Zobrist hash functions are hash functions that hash go positions to fixed-length bit strings. They work so that

Re: [computer-go] ELO Ratings of move pattern

2007-12-21 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: Given that doing one parameter at a time may be less ideal, I don't know if my method would really inherit those properties or not. Probably not, because the Hessian has significant non-diagonal values. But I expect it would still converge in less iterations than MM.

Re: [computer-go] Odd results on 19x19

2008-01-06 Thread Rémi Coulom
David Fotland wrote: The styles of CS (CS-9-17-10k-1CPU), MFGO (mfgo12exp-15), and GNUGO (gnugo3.7.10_10) are different, and it's generating some odd results. Many Faces beats GnuGo 70%. There are not many games, but this is consistent with over 100 test games I've run. CS beats GnuGo 55%.

Re: [computer-go] Odd results on 19x19

2008-01-06 Thread Rémi Coulom
steve uurtamo wrote: did you optimize parameters in MFGO by playing against gnugo? that'd do it. s. Well, I don't know about David, but I do _all_ my testing and optimizing against GNU. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list

Re: [computer-go] Odd results on 19x19

2008-01-06 Thread Rémi Coulom
Vlad Dumitrescu wrote: On Jan 6, 2008 11:00 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea of a non one dimension rating model is interesting. If you decide to pursue this I can give you the CGOS data in a compact format, 1 line per result. Hi all, I'm not sure I get the whole

[computer-go] To French speakers: computer Go on the French Radio

2008-01-10 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, Some readers of this list may be interested in this one-hour programme that will be broadcasted live on France Culture tomorrow afternoon: http://www.radiofrance.fr/chaines/france-culture2/emissions/science_publique/fiche.php?diffusion_id=58397pg=avenir It will be available for download

Re: [computer-go] MoGoRel3_3550pps

2008-01-13 Thread Rémi Coulom
Sylvain Gelly wrote: 2008/1/10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Sylvain, Have you finished your thesis? We are eager to read it:-) Hi, Yes I did! :).It is not on my website, but will (soon?). However, you should not be so

Re: [computer-go] On average how many board updates/sec can top Go programs do these days?

2008-01-15 Thread Rémi Coulom
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: Multi-stone suicide is allowed, single stone not. Strange. The reverse would make more sense to me. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] KGS bot tournaments: poll

2008-01-18 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, My vote would be to keep everything like it is. Maybe use round robin when the number of participants is close to the number of planned rounds. Also, don't hesitate to make the time control shorter if it would be necessary to fit enough rounds within a reasonable time, so we can play

Re: [computer-go] mathematical morphology

2008-01-22 Thread Rémi Coulom
Nick Knol wrote: Hi all, This is my first post to the list, and I'm pretty new to this, so sorry if I break from etiquette. I'm currently working on my senior undergrad thesis project. My idea is to use Bouzy's dilation algorithm ( http://www.gnu.org/software/gnugo/gnugo_14.html ) to find

Re: [computer-go] 19x19 MC improvement

2008-01-27 Thread Rémi Coulom
Eric Boesch wrote: By the way, does anybody know of any nifty tools or heuristics for efficient probabilistic multi-parameter optimization? In other words, like multi-dimensional optimization, except instead of your function returning a deterministic value, it returns the result of a Bernoulli

Re: [computer-go] 19x19 Study - prior in bayeselo, and KGS study

2008-01-29 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: They seem under-rated to me also. Bayeselo pushes the ratings together because that is apparently a valid initial assumption. With enough games I believe that effect goes away. I could test that theory with some work.Unless there is a way to turn that off in bayelo (I

[computer-go] Move Prediction and Strength in Monte-Carlo Go Program

2008-01-31 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I found the Master Thesis of Nobuo Araki is available online: http://ark.qp.land.to/main.pdf Abstract: Recently in the Go program, there was a breakthrough by the Monte-Carlo method using a game tree search method called UCT (UCB applied to trees, UCB stands for Upper Confidence Bounds)

Re: [computer-go] Re: Move Prediction and Strength in Monte-Carlo Go Program

2008-02-01 Thread Rémi Coulom
荒木伸夫 wrote: Hello, Coulom. I'm Nobuo Araki. Thank you for reading my thesis. However, this thesis is first version, not final version. Therefore, there are too few experiments. And Mr. Hideki Kato sent me many warnings about this thesis, for example English is too bad. You may be confused

Re: [computer-go] Re: Move Prediction and Strength in Monte-Carlo Go

2008-02-02 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I would like to confirm your experiments: I have noticed already that adding shapes of radius 4 improves prediction a lot, but does not improve playing strength (from progressive widening). Also, even worse than that, for a given set of features, the pattern urgencies computed by MM

Re: [computer-go] CGOS Deflation or Self-Play delusion?

2008-02-03 Thread Rémi Coulom
I believe the main problem is that the Elo-rating model is wrong for bots. The phenomenon with Mogo is probably the same as Crazy Stone: if there are enough strong MC bots playing to shield the top MC programs from playing against GNU, then they'll get a high rating because they are efficient

Re: [computer-go] Re: Move Prediction and Strength in Monte-Carlo Go

2008-02-05 Thread Rémi Coulom
荒木伸夫 wrote: I have considered this, and I think that this may be caused by wrong training model. In my master thesis, I mentioned that the relationship between top 1 accuracy of move prediction and the strength of Monte-Carlo is not simple (I increased the number of matches to 600, and

Re: [computer-go] Re: computer-go Digest, Vol 43, Issue 8

2008-02-09 Thread Rémi Coulom
David Silver wrote: I think it is time to share this idea with the world :-) Great. Thanks for sharing. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] Game Programming Forum

2008-02-12 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: Other games that come to mind: Chess (covered elsewhere, I assume) http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=7 Checkers Abalone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abalone_(board_game) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abalone_%28board_game%29 I expect checkers and

Re: [computer-go] Game Programming Forum

2008-02-12 Thread Rémi Coulom
Jason House wrote: I've never much cared for forums. Does this one have features that allow me to use it like a mailing list (e.g. notifications of new messages, ability to respond quickly and easily in response to e-mail notifications, etc...) Yes. You can click on subscribe forum at the

[computer-go] f(score) instead of sign(score)

2008-02-27 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi Jonas, welcome to the list. The idea of using f(score) instead of sign(score) is interesting. Long ago, I tried tanh(K*score) on 9x9 (that was before the 2006 Olympiad, so it may be worth trying again), and I found that the higher K, the stronger the program. Still, I believe that other f

[computer-go] Lockless hash table and other parallel search ideas

2008-03-21 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I have got a lockless hash table to work, and I thought I'd share the results. A lockless hash table is very important, because the usual approach that consists in using a global lock during tree search and update does not scale well, especially on 9x9. But it is possible to create a

Re: [computer-go] Lockless hash table and other parallel search ideas

2008-03-22 Thread Rémi Coulom
Don Dailey wrote: These are used in parallel chess programs, and it's very common. A pretty good article on this written by Hyatt (Crafty programmer and author of former world computer chess champion Cray Blitz) and it's called A lock-less transposition table implementation for parallel

Re: [computer-go] Lockless hash table and other parallel search ideas

2008-03-23 Thread Rémi Coulom
Olivier Teytaud wrote: Hi, I have got a lockless hash table to work, and I thought I'd share the results. [...] Great! For networks of 4-cores, it is not very useful, but for highly smp machines it could be great - with your grid5000 account, you might run crazystone on a 16-core machine

[computer-go] CG'2008 paper: Whole-History Ratings

2008-04-08 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, This is my CG2008 paper, for statisticians: Whole-History Rating: A Bayesian Rating System for Players of Time-Varying Strength Abstract: Whole-History Rating (WHR) is a new method to estimate the time-varying strengths of players involved in paired comparisons. Like many variations of the

Re: [computer-go] CG'2008 paper: Whole-History Ratings

2008-04-09 Thread Rémi Coulom
Andy wrote: Remi, you mentioned how the other algorithms predicted well and guessed that it's because the great majority of games are between experienced players whose strength is not changing much. I also feel that the existing KGS ratings work well for those players already. So how about

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