Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:48:56 +0200, Adam Williamson wrote: > 3. provides a handy reference of key combos you can use to get help, > save the file, and exit. Yes, you have to know that ^O means "ctrl+O", > but figuring that out is a lot easier than working out how to drive vi > from scratch. After

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 02:25:24 +0200, Matthew Miller wrote: > But, if you don't like our offerings that are targetted that way, I suggest > you make a spin or remix that has all of defaults _you_ want. So FESCo has decided and there is no point of discussing this Change, that is how it will be and a

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 01:34:19 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > I agree with your points, but pressing ESC only reverses the "rhgb" part, > the kernel output is still "quiet". If the kernel really locks up it is locked up and no keys work anymore. Without "rhgb quiet" one can make a photo of the screen.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 6/26/20 12:30 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 01:34:19 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: I agree with your points, but pressing ESC only reverses the "rhgb" part, the kernel output is still "quiet". If the kernel really locks up it is locked up and no keys work anymore. Without "rhgb

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 6/26/20 12:27 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 02:25:24 +0200, Matthew Miller wrote: But, if you don't like our offerings that are targetted that way, I suggest you make a spin or remix that has all of defaults _you_ want. So FESCo has decided and there is no point of discussin

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 6/26/20 12:20 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:48:56 +0200, Adam Williamson wrote: 3. provides a handy reference of key combos you can use to get help, save the file, and exit. Yes, you have to know that ^O means "ctrl+O", but figuring that out is a lot easier than working out

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:31:10 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > But regardless, that's something to fix in the dnf bash completion scripts, > not a reason to completely disable completion as the earlier poster said. TL;DR it regresses the original bash completion feature. This will be always a catch up

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:38:06 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/26/20 12:27 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > Some replies also do not like this change, I am not alone. Still it looks > > like > > there area really more votes for this change than against it. Fine with me. > > From all the replies here,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:36:05 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > Is this something that happens to you often? It was happening often on an Athlon computer which I retired recently. So no longer. Or rather it still happens for me (X1 carbon 6th with docking station) but during switching to X when the scre

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 6/26/20 12:42 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:31:10 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: But regardless, that's something to fix in the dnf bash completion scripts, not a reason to completely disable completion as the earlier poster said. TL;DR it regresses the original bash completio

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 03:40, Sergio Belkin wrote: > > Well, I strongy disagree whit this move. > In fact on of the things that I hate of Debian/Ubuntu is the choice of nano > and the poor version that they offer by default of vi. > More friendly for end-users? Really? > Please thinking so, the e

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:40:32 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > That's only if you start vi without a file. Otherwise, you just get the > text of the file on the screen and the bottom line with the filename and > cursor position. No info at all about what just happened. OK, I agree. So what about inste

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > In contrast, Nano offers the kind of graphical text editing experience > that people are used to, and therefore doesn't require specialist > knowledge to use. It is already installed across most Fedora Editions > and Spins. This proposal

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 6/26/20 12:44 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:38:06 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: On 6/26/20 12:27 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: Some replies also do not like this change, I am not alone. Still it looks like there area really more votes for this change than against it. Fine with me.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 6/26/20 1:13 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:40:32 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: That's only if you start vi without a file. Otherwise, you just get the text of the file on the screen and the bottom line with the filename and cursor position. No info at all about what just happ

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 09:50, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:31:10 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > But regardless, that's something to fix in the dnf bash completion scripts, > > not a reason to completely disable completion as the earlier poster said. > > TL;DR it regresses the or

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:57:49 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/26/20 12:42 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > This will be always a catch up play. To make it working each completion > > script > > would need to be part of the package it is implementing completion for. > > Additionally it would need to b

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 10:20, Leigh Scott wrote: > > Please don't make this universal for all the spins, it should be optional. > TBH I don't give a damn if you do it to the workstation spin, please keep > your grubby hands off the cinnamon spin :-) That escalated quickly. :) -- Iñaki Úcar ___

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 10:23:31 +0200, Iñaki Ucar wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 10:20, Leigh Scott wrote: > > Please don't make this universal for all the spins, it should be optional. > > TBH I don't give a damn if you do it to the workstation spin, please keep > > your grubby hands off the cinna

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 6/26/20 4:30 AM, Sergio Belkin wrote: Well, I strongy disagree whit this move. In fact on of the things that I hate of Debian/Ubuntu is the choice of nano and the poor version that they offer by default of vi. More friendly for end-users? Really? Please thinking so, the end-user use GUI's.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:14 AM Leigh Scott wrote: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > > In contrast, Nano offers the kind of graphical text editing experience > > that people are used to, and therefore doesn't require specialist > > knowledge to use. It is already in

Re: Bundled compiler conundrum

On 26.06.2020 05:01, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > I know bundled libraries are allowed, but what about bundled compilers? Pre-compiled binaries are strictly forbidden by Fedora guidelines. All binaries must be built on Fedora infra. If you have cyclic dependencies, you should use bootstrapping[1]

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 8:30 AM Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 02:25:24 +0200, Matthew Miller wrote: > > But, if you don't like our offerings that are targetted that way, I suggest > > you make a spin or remix that has all of defaults _you_ want. > > So FESCo has decided and there i

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> > I agree with your points, but pressing ESC only reverses the "rhgb" part, > > the kernel output is still "quiet". > > If the kernel really locks up it is locked up and no keys work anymore. > Without "rhgb quiet" one can make a photo of the screen. > > A better solution would be to use serial c

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 11:44:06 PM CEST Ian McInerney wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:58 PM Kamil Dudka wrote: > > ...snip... > > > > Gentoo Linux uses the /etc/env.d tree to globally set environment > > > > variables: > > https://devmanual.gentoo.org/tasks-reference/environment/index

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 25.06.2020 20:50, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > setenforce 0 Do not disable SELinux! Configure it. -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@l

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 25.06.2020 23:38, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > $ dnf install som > dnf install ./som -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedorap

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:49 AM Kamil Dudka wrote: > On Thursday, June 25, 2020 11:44:06 PM CEST Ian McInerney wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:58 PM Kamil Dudka wrote: > > > ...snip... > > > > > > Gentoo Linux uses the /etc/env.d tree to globally set environment > > > > > > variables: > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

If the only case is git... which by the way behaves in that way even on Windows... isn't it a git problem? I like not having a default editor and a more user-friendly approach would be to ask the user what they want on the installation or on the first run. I don't consider git a layman application

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> > > If the only case is git... which by the way behaves in that way even > on Windows... isn't it a git problem? > I like not having a default editor and a more user-friendly approach > would be to ask the user what they want on the installation or on the > first run. > > git is not the only prog

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Friday, June 26, 2020 12:07:46 PM CEST Ian McInerney wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:49 AM Kamil Dudka wrote: > > On Thursday, June 25, 2020 11:44:06 PM CEST Ian McInerney wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:58 PM Kamil Dudka wrote: > > > > ...snip... > > > > > > > > Gentoo Linux uses

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

100% true. That would be a nice addition to the proposal. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/cod

Re: Bodhi too eager to push updates to stable?

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:21:57AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 20:18 +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:10:23PM -, Artur Iwicki wrote: > > > Isn't this how bodhi always worked? One week (two weeks for EPEL) and > > > if doesn't get negative karma

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26.06.20 12:20, Ian McInerney wrote: > git is not the only program that uses the EDITOR variable. Some > configuration tools on the command-line, such as crontab, will use the > editor set in the environment variable if there is one. visudo is also a good spot for a beginner to be stuck in vi.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:14 AM Leigh Scott wrote: > > If it's set as a default across the distribution there's nothing > stopping the cinnamon spin changing it for them. > > One thing that's required of all spin maintainers, and everyone else, > is to be nice, there's no need to describe peop

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Also true. Although visudo is probably not a good example because the command itself warns you haha :), Nevertheless, I still think that the user-friendly approach here is to ask the users what they want, not to impose something. On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:35 PM Christopher Engelhard wrote: > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

- Original Message - > El jue., 25 jun. 2020 a las 21:45, Qiyu Yan (< yanq...@fedoraproject.org >) > escribió: > > > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > between editors? > For example, when a new user to fedora first invokes git commit > without $EDI

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 23:38:13 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote: > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free OS. > > First steps of end-users is to install Chrome, Spotify and VirtualBox. > So there is left no advantage of a Free OS.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 25.06.2020 19:18, Ben Cotton wrote: > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > doesn't require specialist knowledge to use. -1 for this change. Vi is much better than nano. -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26.06.2020 12:34, Christopher Engelhard wrote: > visudo is also a good spot for a beginner to be stuck in vi. Use sudoedit instead. -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To uns

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 00:57 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: On 6/26/20 12:42 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:31:10 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: But regardless, that's something to fix in the dnf bash completion scripts, not a reason to completely disable completion as the earlier poster said. T

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 10:19 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:57:49 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: The dnf one works fine. It does not as I have shown. Moreover it takes so much time to do dnf command completion and one always has to ctrl-c it anyway. That is because dnf should use cached r

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Adam Williamson 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道： > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > > between editors? > > For example, when a new user to fedora first invokes git commit > > without $EDITOR set, a program name

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:15:58AM -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > The most user friendly solution is to have nano by default with a very easy > way to revert to vim for anyone that knows what they are doing. No, it is not. It is user friendly to the users only using the command line a few times or th

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

I am reading this thread and seeing a lot of "this will make it easy on end users" and "this will piss developers off." How many? Who? Without data to back those statements they are just examples of hyperbole built upon personal beliefs. ___ devel mailin

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Is this a vote? If so -1. Don't pave the jungle, put on some boots! On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 12:33, David Kaufmann wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:15:58AM -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > The most user friendly solution is to have nano by default with a very > easy > > way to revert to vim for a

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

El vie., 26 jun. 2020 a las 8:10, Ankur Sinha () escribió: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 23:38:13 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote: > > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free OS. > > > > First steps of end-users is to install Chrome,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

+1 I'm all for making the user experience better, and I think this change contributes to that. - Original Message - > From: "Ben Cotton" > To: devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org, "Development discussions related > to Fedora" > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 7:18:59 PM > Subject:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

I think it is good step to user friendly Fedora experience. +1 пт, 26 июн. 2020 г., 14:45 Charalampos Stratakis : > +1 > > I'm all for making the user experience better, and I think this change > contributes to that. > > - Original Message - > > From: "Ben Cotton" > > To: devel-annou...

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 13:32 +0200, David Kaufmann wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:15:58AM -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: The most user friendly solution is to have nano by default with a very easy way to revert to vim for anyone that knows what they are doing. No, it is not. It is user friendly to the user

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 6/26/20 1:30 PM, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > > Adam Williamson > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道： > > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > > between editors? > > For

[Bug 1851243] perl-Test-Fake-HTTPD: FTBFS with crypto-policies-20200625-1.gitb298a9e.fc33

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851243 Petr Pisar changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |ASSIGNED Assignee|de...@fateyev.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 25/06/20 18:48 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 22:30 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: Well, I strongy disagree whit this move. In fact on of the things that I hate of Debian/Ubuntu is the choice of nano and the poor version that they offer by default of vi. More friendly for e

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 14:03 +0200, Theodore Papadopoulo wrote: On 6/26/20 1:30 PM, Qiyu Yan wrote: Adam Williamson mailto:adamw...@fedoraproject.org>> 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道： On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the differ

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> That's been there for years, so I think the "stuck in vim" meme is > outdated. > > I agree is a funny meme, but even unreal. Sift+zz is not hard that Ctrl-o. Perhaps vim needs a footer such as nano :) -- -- Sergio Belkin LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> > Why would $EDITOR even matter if they're not using the terminal? > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.o

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 09:22 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: Really do we believe that setting nano as a default editor will attract new users to Linux? How many end users in last years use Debian because of the default editor change? A newbie generally does know nothing about vi/vim, cron, git, etc... The pr

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:39:46AM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > In such a case nano is easier (regardless that the argument about how hard > is quitting vim is exaggerated, Ctrl+o is not easier that ZZ). I disagree, for the simple reason that ^O is discoverable (indeed, it and other hotkeys are

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Once upon a time, Zdenek Dohnal said: > I'm not sure if which other applications use the default editor, I know > only git from those. So let's say I will talk about the editor which > git-commit spawns during committing a change. There are a variety of CLI tools that use $EDITOR (do any still us

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Once upon a time, Sergio Belkin said: > I agree is a funny meme, but even unreal. Sift+zz is not hard that Ctrl-o. > Perhaps vim needs a footer such as nano :) vim does respond to the common ^C invocation with: Type :quit to exit Vim -- Chris Adams _

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:27:54PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > On 26/06/20 09:22 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > > Really do we believe that setting nano as a default editor will attract new > > users to Linux? How many end users in last years use Debian because of the > > default editor change?

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26 June 2020 13:39:46 CEST, Sergio Belkin wrote: >El vie., 26 jun. 2020 a las 8:10, Ankur Sinha () >escribió: > >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 23:38:13 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: >> > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote: >> > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a fre

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

El vie., 26 jun. 2020 a las 9:29, Jonathan Wakely (< jwak...@fedoraproject.org>) escribió: > On 26/06/20 09:22 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > >Really do we believe that setting nano as a default editor will attract > new > >users to Linux? How many end users in last years use Debian because of the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:27:39PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > On 26/06/20 10:19 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:57:49 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > The dnf one works fine. > > > > It does not as I have shown. Moreover it takes so much time to do dnf > > command > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:43:19AM -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > Do we have real stasitics on this (somthing in the form of bz reports or > comments on a list) indicating that users actually are frustrated with being > confronted with vi unexpectedly? Why would one file a bugzilla ticket over this?

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 04:16, Samuel Sieb wrote: > If you're going to say that you have to use vim for it to be unix, > you're going to start another war with the emacs users. :-) I came here with peace. Let's face it. It's always between the two. I respect vim and I learned quite some things in v

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 08:43 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:27:54PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: On 26/06/20 09:22 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > Really do we believe that setting nano as a default editor will attract new > users to Linux? How many end users in last years use Debian b

Re: Autoclosure of review requests?

On Monday, 24 February 2020 23:04:26 CEST Ben Cotton wrote: > In the weekly Fedora program update that I publish on > communityblog.fedoraproject.org, I have started to include a count of the > open package review requests. As of this moment, there are ~1300 open > review requests. Some of these we

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 14:59 +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:27:39PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: On 26/06/20 10:19 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:57:49 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > The dnf one works fine. > > It does not as I have shown. Moreover it takes so

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:13:41PM +0200, Alejandro Saez Morollon wrote: > I like not having a default editor and a more user-friendly approach > would be to ask the user what they want on the installation or on the > first run. Okay, how is this new user supposed to know which editor to pick when

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:59:39PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 1:58 PM Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 1:48 PM Michael Catanzaro > > wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 2:45 pm, Michael Catanzaro > > > wrote: > > > > Yes. I already fixed the w

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 8:35 AM Chris Adams wrote: > > Once upon a time, Zdenek Dohnal said: > > I'm not sure if which other applications use the default editor, I know > > only git from those. So let's say I will talk about the editor which > > git-commit spawns during committing a change. > > T

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:14 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:59:39PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > > Which is better? default or defaults? I don't have a preference. > > I went with "-defaults" in this case because the package provides "the > default configurati

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri Jun 26, 2020 at 9:44 AM WAT, Qiyu Yan wrote: > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > between editors? > For example, when a new user to fedora first invokes git commit > without $EDITOR set, a program named fedora-default-editor comes up > and asks: Which e

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

- Original Message - > > > Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道： > > > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > > between editors? > > For example, when a new user

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:44:22AM -, Leigh Scott wrote: > > One thing that's required of all spin maintainers, and everyone else, > > is to be nice, there's no need to describe people as grubby. > Maybe you should learn the meaning before launching an attack! > https://www.ldoceonline.com/dict

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Jaroslav Skarvada 于2020年6月26日周五 下午9:41写道： > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > > Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道： > > > > > > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the differ

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> -1 for the change. If the so called 'end-user' (whatever does it mean) > can learn git, she or he can also learn 'vi' or at least how to enable > the preferred editor. Personally, I can see nothing special on the > nano, for me it qualifies as very poor editor I feel you're completely missing th

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

- Original Message - > Jaroslav Skarvada 于2020年6月26日周五 下午9:41写道： > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > > > > > Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道： > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > > > What about

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

- Original Message - > > -1 for the change. If the so called 'end-user' (whatever does it mean) > > can learn git, she or he can also learn 'vi' or at least how to enable > > the preferred editor. Personally, I can see nothing special on the > > nano, for me it qualifies as very poor edit

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 02:55:01PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: > I feel you're completely missing the point, it's about a straight > foward to understand editor by default so they aren't scared away > before they even learn what an environment variable is, it's not about > being the best most spec

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Friday, June 26, 2020 3:55:01 PM CEST Peter Robinson wrote: > > -1 for the change. If the so called 'end-user' (whatever does it mean) > > can learn git, she or he can also learn 'vi' or at least how to enable > > the preferred editor. Personally, I can see nothing special on the > > nano, for m

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:44:22AM -, Leigh Scott wrote: > > Tone doesn't translate well to email. I assume you meant this with a joking, > friendly tone -- but "grubby" is still negative (merriam-webster says > "worthy of contempt"). It's easy for these things to be misread or taken > out >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Dne 26. 06. 20 v 15:17 Ben Cotton napsal(a): > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:14 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:59:39PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: >>> Which is better? default or defaults? I don't have a preference. >> I went with "-defaults" in this case because

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Once upon a time, Matthew Miller said: > And it really isn't just git, although that may the most common tool people > run into it with. "crontab -e" is another example off the top of my head. And visudo/sudoedit, systemctl edit, bash ^X^E, mysql \e, virsh edit, less v, mutt, edquota, and a numbe

Re: Autoclosure of review requests?

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:03 AM Robert-André Mauchin wrote: > > Any news on that? Nope! The lukewarm reaction and subsequent *guestures at the state of the world* moved this to the bottom of the stack. It's still on my todo list for some point in the future. > Dropping requests on the last c

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 09:00:58AM -0400, Solomon Peachy wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:43:19AM -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > Do we have real stasitics on this (somthing in the form of bz reports or > > comments on a list) indicating that users actually are frustrated with being > > confronted

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 13:11 +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:59:39PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 1:58 PM Chris Murphy wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 1:48 PM Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 2:45 pm, Michael Catanzaro

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> > > Why not just patch vim-minimal to show the hint on the CTRL+C? > > > Problem solved :) > > Ctrl + C in vi will give you a > > Type :qa and press to exit Vim You can also do ZZ (two capital Zs) to exit ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedorapr

Re: Fwd: %forgemeta support for `git` tasks in checked-out code?

hi, On 6/25/20 11:58 PM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > forgemeta works in release mode, with release archives published over > http(s). It does not talk at all to source projects using the git > protocol (and that is intentional, since a lot ot things tooling-side > do not talk the git protocol and wil

Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal: GHC 8.8 and Haskell Stackage LTS 16

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GHC_8.8_and_LTS16 == Summary == The GHC Haskell compiler will be updated from major version 8.6 to 8.8, and Haskell packages will be updated from Stackage LTS 14 to LTS 16 versions. == Owner == * Name: [[User:Petersen| Jens Petersen]] * Email: == Detailed

Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BtrfsByDefault == Summary == For laptop and workstation installs of Fedora, we want to provide file system features to users in a transparent fashion. We want to add new features, while reducing the amount of expertise needed to deal with situations like [ht

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 10:33 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 09:00:58AM -0400, Solomon Peachy wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:43:19AM -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > Do we have real stasitics on this (somthing in the form of bz reports or > comments on a list) indicating that users actually

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:39:46AM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > Again, I'm not against the proposal, but I would prefer a better and sane > discussion. > Honestly most end users dislike the CLI. > However I understand that discussion is not about "what is my preferred > editor?". > I understand th

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

On 26/06/20 09:24 -0500, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Matthew Miller said: And it really isn't just git, although that may the most common tool people run into it with. "crontab -e" is another example off the top of my head. And visudo/sudoedit, systemctl edit, bash ^X^E, mysql \e, vi

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

> I came here with peace. Let's face it. It's always between the two. I > respect vim and I learned quite some things in vim. But I'm an emacs > user and I find the original decision between vim and emacs for 'git > commit' unfair. Git doesn't use vim by default, it uses vi, and it's got nothing t

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

On 26.06.2020 16:42, Ben Cotton wrote: > For laptop and workstation installs of Fedora, we want to provide file > system features to users in a transparent fashion. We want to add new > features, while reducing the amount of expertise needed to deal with > situations like [https://pagure.io/fedora-

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BtrfsByDefault Wow! Is it 2010 already? Time flies! :) In seriousness: thanks for all of the effort put into this change proposal, and the impressive list of change owners. I'm following the discussion here with much interest! -- Matthew Miller Fedor

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

Makes sense to me.  Many people do not know how to use vi/vim and don't want to spend time learning arcane commands just to edit a bit of text.  This would also put Fedora in line with other distros such as Ubuntu. Those of us who actually *want* to use a different editor can also easily change th

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:42:25AM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > For laptop and workstation installs of Fedora, we want to provide file > system features to users in a transparent fashion. We want to add new > features, while reducing the amount of expertise needed to deal with > situations like [http

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