Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/25/20 6:48 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: Nothing in vi's default view (if launched with a file, which is what happens in this case) tells you you need to press 'insert' in order to actually edit anything. Nothing in vi's default view tells you you have to type the entirely cryptic sequence

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Zdenek Dohnal
To be honest, I'm sad about the change. I'm not sure if which other applications use the default editor, I know only git from those. So let's say I will talk about the editor which git-commit spawns during committing a change. When I was new to Linux (when I attended a university), I stumbled

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 01:34:19 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > I agree with your points, but pressing ESC only reverses the "rhgb" part, > the kernel output is still "quiet". If the kernel really locks up it is locked up and no keys work anymore. Without "rhgb quiet" one can make a photo of the screen.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/26/20 12:20 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:48:56 +0200, Adam Williamson wrote: 3. provides a handy reference of key combos you can use to get help, save the file, and exit. Yes, you have to know that ^O means "ctrl+O", but figuring that out is a lot easier than working

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:31:10 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > But regardless, that's something to fix in the dnf bash completion scripts, > not a reason to completely disable completion as the earlier poster said. TL;DR it regresses the original bash completion feature. This will be always a catch up

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:57:49 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/26/20 12:42 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > This will be always a catch up play. To make it working each completion > > script > > would need to be part of the package it is implementing completion for. > > Additionally it would need to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 10:23:31 +0200, Iñaki Ucar wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 10:20, Leigh Scott wrote: > > Please don't make this universal for all the spins, it should be optional. > > TBH I don't give a damn if you do it to the workstation spin, please keep > > your grubby hands off the

Re: Fwd: %forgemeta support for `git` tasks in checked-out code?

2020-06-26 Thread Nicolas Mailhot via devel
Hi, forgemeta works in release mode, with release archives published over http(s). It does not talk at all to source projects using the git protocol (and that is intentional, since a lot ot things tooling-side do not talk the git protocol and will never talk the git protocol, starting with rpm

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/26/20 12:30 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 01:34:19 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: I agree with your points, but pressing ESC only reverses the "rhgb" part, the kernel output is still "quiet". If the kernel really locks up it is locked up and no keys work anymore. Without "rhgb

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/26/20 12:27 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 02:25:24 +0200, Matthew Miller wrote: But, if you don't like our offerings that are targetted that way, I suggest you make a spin or remix that has all of defaults _you_ want. So FESCo has decided and there is no point of

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Iñaki Ucar
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 03:40, Sergio Belkin wrote: > > Well, I strongy disagree whit this move. > In fact on of the things that I hate of Debian/Ubuntu is the choice of nano > and the poor version that they offer by default of vi. > More friendly for end-users? Really? > Please thinking so, the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/26/20 12:44 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:38:06 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: On 6/26/20 12:27 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: Some replies also do not like this change, I am not alone. Still it looks like there area really more votes for this change than against it. Fine with

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:40:32 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > That's only if you start vi without a file. Otherwise, you just get the > text of the file on the screen and the bottom line with the filename and > cursor position. No info at all about what just happened. OK, I agree. So what about

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Leigh Scott
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > In contrast, Nano offers the kind of graphical text editing experience > that people are used to, and therefore doesn't require specialist > knowledge to use. It is already installed across most Fedora Editions > and Spins. This proposal

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Iñaki Ucar
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 10:20, Leigh Scott wrote: > > Please don't make this universal for all the spins, it should be optional. > TBH I don't give a damn if you do it to the workstation spin, please keep > your grubby hands off the cinnamon spin :-) That escalated quickly. :) -- Iñaki Úcar

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Peter Robinson
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:14 AM Leigh Scott wrote: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > > In contrast, Nano offers the kind of graphical text editing experience > > that people are used to, and therefore doesn't require specialist > > knowledge to use. It is already

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Peter Robinson
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 8:30 AM Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 02:25:24 +0200, Matthew Miller wrote: > > But, if you don't like our offerings that are targetted that way, I suggest > > you make a spin or remix that has all of defaults _you_ want. > > So FESCo has decided and there

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
On 25.06.2020 23:38, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > $ dnf install som > dnf install ./som -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 02:25:24 +0200, Matthew Miller wrote: > But, if you don't like our offerings that are targetted that way, I suggest > you make a spin or remix that has all of defaults _you_ want. So FESCo has decided and there is no point of discussing this Change, that is how it will be and

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Panu Matilainen
On 6/26/20 4:30 AM, Sergio Belkin wrote: Well, I strongy disagree whit this move. In fact on of the things that I hate of Debian/Ubuntu is the choice of nano and the poor version that they offer by default of vi. More friendly for end-users? Really? Please thinking so, the end-user use GUI's.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Kamil Dudka
On Thursday, June 25, 2020 11:44:06 PM CEST Ian McInerney wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:58 PM Kamil Dudka wrote: > > ...snip... > > > > Gentoo Linux uses the /etc/env.d tree to globally set environment > > > > variables: > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:48:56 +0200, Adam Williamson wrote: > 3. provides a handy reference of key combos you can use to get help, > save the file, and exit. Yes, you have to know that ^O means "ctrl+O", > but figuring that out is a lot easier than working out how to drive vi > from scratch. After

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/26/20 12:42 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:31:10 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: But regardless, that's something to fix in the dnf bash completion scripts, not a reason to completely disable completion as the earlier poster said. TL;DR it regresses the original bash

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Iñaki Ucar
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 09:50, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:31:10 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > But regardless, that's something to fix in the dnf bash completion scripts, > > not a reason to completely disable completion as the earlier poster said. > > TL;DR it regresses the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/26/20 1:13 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:40:32 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: That's only if you start vi without a file. Otherwise, you just get the text of the file on the screen and the bottom line with the filename and cursor position. No info at all about what just

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Peter Robinson
> > I agree with your points, but pressing ESC only reverses the "rhgb" part, > > the kernel output is still "quiet". > > If the kernel really locks up it is locked up and no keys work anymore. > Without "rhgb quiet" one can make a photo of the screen. > > A better solution would be to use serial

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Alejandro Saez Morollon
If the only case is git... which by the way behaves in that way even on Windows... isn't it a git problem? I like not having a default editor and a more user-friendly approach would be to ask the user what they want on the installation or on the first run. I don't consider git a layman

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:38:06 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/26/20 12:27 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > Some replies also do not like this change, I am not alone. Still it looks > > like > > there area really more votes for this change than against it. Fine with me. > > From all the replies

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jan Kratochvil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:36:05 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > Is this something that happens to you often? It was happening often on an Athlon computer which I retired recently. So no longer. Or rather it still happens for me (X1 carbon 6th with docking station) but during switching to X when the

Re: Bundled compiler conundrum

2020-06-26 Thread Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
On 26.06.2020 05:01, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > I know bundled libraries are allowed, but what about bundled compilers? Pre-compiled binaries are strictly forbidden by Fedora guidelines. All binaries must be built on Fedora infra. If you have cyclic dependencies, you should use

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
On 25.06.2020 20:50, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > setenforce 0 Do not disable SELinux! Configure it. -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Ian McInerney
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:49 AM Kamil Dudka wrote: > On Thursday, June 25, 2020 11:44:06 PM CEST Ian McInerney wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:58 PM Kamil Dudka wrote: > > > ...snip... > > > > > > Gentoo Linux uses the /etc/env.d tree to globally set environment > > > > > > variables: > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Alejandro Saez Morollon
100% true. That would be a nice addition to the proposal. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Leigh Scott
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:14 AM Leigh Scott wrote: > > If it's set as a default across the distribution there's nothing > stopping the cinnamon spin changing it for them. > > One thing that's required of all spin maintainers, and everyone else, > is to be nice, there's no need to describe

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
On 26.06.2020 12:34, Christopher Engelhard wrote: > visudo is also a good spot for a beginner to be stuck in vi. Use sudoedit instead. -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 00:57 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: On 6/26/20 12:42 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 03:31:10 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: But regardless, that's something to fix in the dnf bash completion scripts, not a reason to completely disable completion as the earlier poster said.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread David Kaufmann
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:15:58AM -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > The most user friendly solution is to have nano by default with a very easy > way to revert to vim for anyone that knows what they are doing. No, it is not. It is user friendly to the users only using the command line a few times or

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Qiyu Yan
Adam Williamson 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道: > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > > between editors? > > For example, when a new user to fedora first invokes git commit > > without $EDITOR set, a program

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread David Kirwan
Is this a vote? If so -1. Don't pave the jungle, put on some boots! On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 12:33, David Kaufmann wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:15:58AM -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > The most user friendly solution is to have nano by default with a very > easy > > way to revert to vim for

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Ian McInerney
> > > If the only case is git... which by the way behaves in that way even > on Windows... isn't it a git problem? > I like not having a default editor and a more user-friendly approach > would be to ask the user what they want on the installation or on the > first run. > > git is not the only

Re: Bodhi too eager to push updates to stable?

2020-06-26 Thread Tomasz Torcz
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:21:57AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 20:18 +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:10:23PM -, Artur Iwicki wrote: > > > Isn't this how bodhi always worked? One week (two weeks for EPEL) and > > > if doesn't get negative

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Christopher Engelhard
On 26.06.20 12:20, Ian McInerney wrote: > git is not the only program that uses the EDITOR variable. Some > configuration tools on the command-line, such as crontab, will use the > editor set in the environment variable if there is one. visudo is also a good spot for a beginner to be stuck in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
On 25.06.2020 19:18, Ben Cotton wrote: > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > doesn't require specialist knowledge to use. -1 for this change. Vi is much better than nano. -- Sincerely, Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org)

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 10:19 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:57:49 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: The dnf one works fine. It does not as I have shown. Moreover it takes so much time to do dnf command completion and one always has to ctrl-c it anyway. That is because dnf should use cached

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Charalampos Stratakis
+1 I'm all for making the user experience better, and I think this change contributes to that. - Original Message - > From: "Ben Cotton" > To: devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org, "Development discussions related > to Fedora" > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 7:18:59 PM > Subject:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 13:32 +0200, David Kaufmann wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:15:58AM -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: The most user friendly solution is to have nano by default with a very easy way to revert to vim for anyone that knows what they are doing. No, it is not. It is user friendly to the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Sergio Belkin
> That's been there for years, so I think the "stuck in vim" meme is > outdated. > > I agree is a funny meme, but even unreal. Sift+zz is not hard that Ctrl-o. Perhaps vim needs a footer such as nano :) -- -- Sergio Belkin LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Zdenek Dohnal said: > I'm not sure if which other applications use the default editor, I know > only git from those. So let's say I will talk about the editor which > git-commit spawns during committing a change. There are a variety of CLI tools that use $EDITOR (do any still

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Sergio Belkin said: > I agree is a funny meme, but even unreal. Sift+zz is not hard that Ctrl-o. > Perhaps vim needs a footer such as nano :) vim does respond to the common ^C invocation with: Type :quit to exit Vim -- Chris Adams

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Neil Horman
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:27:54PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > On 26/06/20 09:22 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > > Really do we believe that setting nano as a default editor will attract new > > users to Linux? How many end users in last years use Debian because of the > > default editor change?

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Markus Larsson
On 26 June 2020 13:39:46 CEST, Sergio Belkin wrote: >El vie., 26 jun. 2020 a las 8:10, Ankur Sinha () >escribió: > >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 23:38:13 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: >> > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote: >> > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Tomasz Torcz
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:27:39PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > On 26/06/20 10:19 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:57:49 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > The dnf one works fine. > > > > It does not as I have shown. Moreover it takes so much time to do dnf > > command > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 14:59 +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:27:39PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: On 26/06/20 10:19 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:57:49 +0200, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > The dnf one works fine. > > It does not as I have shown. Moreover it takes so

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Solomon Peachy
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:13:41PM +0200, Alejandro Saez Morollon wrote: > I like not having a default editor and a more user-friendly approach > would be to ask the user what they want on the installation or on the > first run. Okay, how is this new user supposed to know which editor to pick

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Ben Cotton
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:14 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:59:39PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > > Which is better? default or defaults? I don't have a preference. > > I went with "-defaults" in this case because the package provides "the > default

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Kamil Dudka
On Friday, June 26, 2020 12:07:46 PM CEST Ian McInerney wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:49 AM Kamil Dudka wrote: > > On Thursday, June 25, 2020 11:44:06 PM CEST Ian McInerney wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:58 PM Kamil Dudka wrote: > > > > ...snip... > > > > > > > > Gentoo Linux uses

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jaroslav Skarvada
- Original Message - > El jue., 25 jun. 2020 a las 21:45, Qiyu Yan (< yanq...@fedoraproject.org >) > escribió: > > > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > between editors? > For example, when a new user to fedora first invokes git commit > without

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Vascom
I think it is good step to user friendly Fedora experience. +1 пт, 26 июн. 2020 г., 14:45 Charalampos Stratakis : > +1 > > I'm all for making the user experience better, and I think this change > contributes to that. > > - Original Message - > > From: "Ben Cotton" > > To:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 14:03 +0200, Theodore Papadopoulo wrote: On 6/26/20 1:30 PM, Qiyu Yan wrote: Adam Williamson mailto:adamw...@fedoraproject.org>> 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道: On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Solomon Peachy
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:39:46AM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > In such a case nano is easier (regardless that the argument about how hard > is quitting vim is exaggerated, Ctrl+o is not easier that ZZ). I disagree, for the simple reason that ^O is discoverable (indeed, it and other hotkeys are

Re: Autoclosure of review requests?

2020-06-26 Thread Robert-André Mauchin
On Monday, 24 February 2020 23:04:26 CEST Ben Cotton wrote: > In the weekly Fedora program update that I publish on > communityblog.fedoraproject.org, I have started to include a count of the > open package review requests. As of this moment, there are ~1300 open > review requests. Some of these

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Neal Gompa
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 8:35 AM Chris Adams wrote: > > Once upon a time, Zdenek Dohnal said: > > I'm not sure if which other applications use the default editor, I know > > only git from those. So let's say I will talk about the editor which > > git-commit spawns during committing a change. > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Mairo P. Rufus
On Fri Jun 26, 2020 at 9:44 AM WAT, Qiyu Yan wrote: > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > between editors? > For example, when a new user to fedora first invokes git commit > without $EDITOR set, a program named fedora-default-editor comes up > and asks: Which

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Alejandro Saez Morollon
Also true. Although visudo is probably not a good example because the command itself warns you haha :), Nevertheless, I still think that the user-friendly approach here is to ask the users what they want, not to impose something. On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:35 PM Christopher Engelhard wrote: > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Ankur Sinha
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 23:38:13 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote: > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free OS. > > First steps of end-users is to install Chrome, Spotify and VirtualBox. > So there is left no advantage of a Free

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Mauricio Tavares
I am reading this thread and seeing a lot of "this will make it easy on end users" and "this will piss developers off." How many? Who? Without data to back those statements they are just examples of hyperbole built upon personal beliefs. ___ devel

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Sergio Belkin
El vie., 26 jun. 2020 a las 8:10, Ankur Sinha () escribió: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 23:38:13 +0200, Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote: > > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free OS. > > > > First steps of end-users is to install Chrome,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Theodore Papadopoulo
On 6/26/20 1:30 PM, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > > Adam Williamson > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道: > > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: > > What about to provide a prompt to the user telling them the difference > > between editors? > > For

[Bug 1851243] perl-Test-Fake-HTTPD: FTBFS with crypto-policies-20200625-1.gitb298a9e.fc33

2020-06-26 Thread bugzilla
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851243 Petr Pisar changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |ASSIGNED

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 25/06/20 18:48 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 22:30 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: Well, I strongy disagree whit this move. In fact on of the things that I hate of Debian/Ubuntu is the choice of nano and the poor version that they offer by default of vi. More friendly for

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Sergio Belkin
> > Why would $EDITOR even matter if they're not using the terminal? > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 09:22 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: Really do we believe that setting nano as a default editor will attract new users to Linux? How many end users in last years use Debian because of the default editor change? A newbie generally does know nothing about vi/vim, cron, git, etc... The

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Sergio Belkin
El vie., 26 jun. 2020 a las 9:29, Jonathan Wakely (< jwak...@fedoraproject.org>) escribió: > On 26/06/20 09:22 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > >Really do we believe that setting nano as a default editor will attract > new > >users to Linux? How many end users in last years use Debian because of the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 08:43 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:27:54PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: On 26/06/20 09:22 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > Really do we believe that setting nano as a default editor will attract new > users to Linux? How many end users in last years use Debian

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Solomon Peachy
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 08:43:19AM -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > Do we have real stasitics on this (somthing in the form of bz reports or > comments on a list) indicating that users actually are frustrated with being > confronted with vi unexpectedly? Why would one file a bugzilla ticket over

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Orcan Ogetbil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 04:16, Samuel Sieb wrote: > If you're going to say that you have to use vim for it to be unix, > you're going to start another war with the emacs users. :-) I came here with peace. Let's face it. It's always between the two. I respect vim and I learned quite some things in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:59:39PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 1:58 PM Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 1:48 PM Michael Catanzaro > > wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 2:45 pm, Michael Catanzaro > > > wrote: > > > > Yes. I already fixed the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Alex Thomas
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 5:31 PM Tomasz Kłoczko wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 23:21, Alex Thomas wrote: >> >> Once question, are we looking at using a layout like openSUSE is >> doing? ( https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:BTRFS ) utilizing subvolumes, or >> are we looking at something like >> >>

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Chris Murphy
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:22 PM Przemek Klosowski via devel wrote: > > I remember that two issues that made me apprehensive wrt. BTRFS were its > handling of the 'disk full' situation, and lack of a staightforward > 'fsck' workflow. I think the first issue has been resolved, and we > probably

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Peter Gordon
On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 14:04 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > [...] > > Surely if xfs is good enough for RHEL, and btrfs is > at least 10x more reliable than xfs, that suggests btrfs should This is a good argument for having Fedora officially support BtrFS as a possible installation option,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Neal Gompa
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 6:37 PM Alex Thomas wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 5:25 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 6:11 PM Alex Thomas wrote: > > > > > > Once question, are we looking at using a layout like openSUSE is > > > doing? ( https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:BTRFS )

Re: Fwd: %forgemeta support for `git` tasks in checked-out code?

2020-06-26 Thread PGNet Dev
On 6/26/20 9:35 AM, PGNet Dev wrote: > that said, _can_ such bash-ism be used in "getting" a forge commit value? nm, pebkac! %( git ls-remote %{forgeurl1} | grep HEAD | awk '{print $1}' ) seems to work. sry 4 the noise. ___ devel mailing list --

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread David Cantrell
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:23:17PM -0400, Neil Horman wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:03:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:58 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > From this thread you can find at least two people (me and Ben > > Rosser) > > who definitely didn't keep using

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread niccolo . belli
I couldn't believe it either when I saw the proposal, so 2010-ish :) Anyway I'm in great favour of this proposal and I'd love to see btrfs the default. I personally use it in all of my systems (desktops, laptops and workstations) except for servers, where it lacks the reliability on some raid

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Chris Murphy
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 11:30 AM Chris Adams wrote: > > Once upon a time, Ben Cotton said: > > For laptop and workstation installs of Fedora, we want to provide file > > system features to users in a transparent fashion. We want to add new > > features, while reducing the amount of expertise

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Matthew Miller
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 03:22:07PM -0400, Josef Bacik wrote: > I described this case to the working group last week, because it hit > us in production this winter. Somebody screwed up and suddenly > pushed 2 extra copies of the whole website to everybody's VM. The > website is mostly metadata,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Alex Thomas
Ok, I thought I saw a proposal by you to change the default btrfs layout to something like openSUSE's using subvolumes, but now, of course, I cannot find it. On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 5:25 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 6:11 PM Alex Thomas wrote: > > > > Once question, are we

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Chris Murphy
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:44 PM Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 03:22:07PM -0400, Josef Bacik wrote: > > I described this case to the working group last week, because it hit > > us in production this winter. Somebody screwed up and suddenly > > pushed 2 extra copies of the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Josef Bacik
On 6/26/20 5:44 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 03:22:07PM -0400, Josef Bacik wrote: I described this case to the working group last week, because it hit us in production this winter. Somebody screwed up and suddenly pushed 2 extra copies of the whole website to everybody's

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Chris Murphy
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 6:17 PM Peter Gordon wrote: > This is a good argument for having Fedora officially support BtrFS as a > possible installation option, yes; It already is a release blocking (supported) file system for install time option. Has been for ~10 years. > BtrFS might have

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Ben Rosser
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:32 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:18:59PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > > == Scope == > > * Proposal owners: > > ** Modify comps to include nano Fedora wide. > > ** Create a new subpackage of nano, called > > nano-editor. > > **

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Adam Williamson
On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 16:31 +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:18:59PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > > == Scope == > > * Proposal owners: > > ** Modify comps to include nano Fedora wide. > > ** Create a new subpackage of nano, called > > nano-editor. > > **

Re: SELinux question

2020-06-26 Thread Zdenek Pytela
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 8:54 PM Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/24/20 12:03 PM, Iñaki Ucar wrote: > > Thanks. I found another tutorial (from RedHat) which basically says: > > > > 1. Implement your service, give it a new SELinux type and run it. > > 2. Collect all the complaints from SELinux. > > 3.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Adam Williamson said: > But nano *tells you* about ctrl+o. Well, it tells you about ^O - but when I hit SHIFT+6 O it doesn't do that! :P -- Chris Adams ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Neil Horman
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 07:04:51PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > On 26/06/20 13:23 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > Heres a thought that I hadn't considered before though, and it might be > > useful. > > Apple at one point (and still may), shiped iphones without the itunes (or > > some > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Markus Larsson
On 26 June 2020 16:58:19 CEST, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote: >On 26.06.2020 16:42, Ben Cotton wrote: >> For laptop and workstation installs of Fedora, we want to provide file >> system features to users in a transparent fashion. We want to add new >> features, while reducing the amount of

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Todd Zullinger
I wrote: > Zdenek Dohnal wrote: >> CCing Git maintainer to see whether it can be implemented or not. I somehow forgot to say that I'm just one of several maintainers for the git package. :) I've Cc'd the git-maintainers alias to include the other folks. -- Todd signature.asc Description:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Justin Forbes
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:05 PM Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 8:45 pm, Markus Larsson > wrote: > > I strongly agree. BTRFS has been 5 years from production ready for > > almost a decade now, please don't force this on users that doesn't > > know any better. > > This is

Re: [Fedora-legal-list] Packaging firmwares

2020-06-26 Thread Richard Fontana
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 4:36 PM Robert-André Mauchin wrote: > > Hello, > > I have a review request for a firmware: Boot firmware (ATF, UEFI...) for > Mellanox BlueField: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1846139 > > I would like some opinions on whether this is acceptable firmware.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-26 Thread Przemek Klosowski via devel
On 6/26/20 1:43 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: One issue that I have seen mentioned as an issue within the last week is still the problem of running out of space when it still looks like there's space free. I didn't read the responses, so not sure of the resolution, but I remember that being a "thing"

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