Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-12-26 Thread Jeff Seager

I studied a bit about eye-tracking when I was working for newspapers.  We were 
concerned then mostly about the readers' flow as they scanned the page, and 
how our layouts might call attention to key elements such as informational 
graphics or advertising.

It seemed to me then that the only way you could draw valid conclusions from 
eye-tracking was if you also gathered subjective data on the user's cognitive 
process.  What information did s/he retain a minute after reading?  Five 
minutes later?  An hour later?  What did s/he recall about the images or the 
layout and design, and how or whether they reinforced the primary messages?  
How relevant did s/he perceive the material to be to his/her life before *and* 
after the experience?  If that information is correlated with the eye-tracking 
data, you may have something useful.

I think it's also important to ask whether such studies are likely to merit 
their costs (time and money), compared to other user testing and the 
information already available to us about how to design effectively.  In some 
rare cases, given an effective methodology, those costs will be justified.  
This may be comparable to a doctor who orders extensive testing just in case 
-- but not for all patients.

Is eye-tracking commonly used in modern interaction design, and if so, how?  
I'm curious to know.

Jeff Seager

P.S. Cheers to Jared on the Nilsson reference!

_
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-12-24 Thread hanif o'neil
 Someone as knowledgeable on the subject as yourself could do the world
 some good by refuting the list that started this conversation, or at least
 debating the merits of eye tracking.


Eye-tracking provides unique methods to assess the impact of digital media
i.e., advertisements and web pages.  Even still, the range of technology and
data resulting from research using eye-tracking varies beyond any
wide-sweeping criticism... The issue of accuracy Mr. Spool is suggesting
deals with what researchers call visual acuity.  Foveal vision constitutes
1-2 degrees of the eyes' visual field, which equates to roughly the area
covered by your thumb at arms length. For researchers using eye-tracking,
this often means that foveal vision is composed of an area of approximately
2cm in diameter (in other words one line top and bottom, and roughly a 1/2
word on each side).  Anyone questioning whether peripheral vision is tracked
effectively, then dismissing an entire technology because of its relative
effectiveness to do so, is omitting a fact that peripheral vision is low
resolution.  Which is a direct result of users eyes constantly focusing on
what falls within the high resolution [scan] area of the fovea.  With that
said peripheral vision (is and) should be taken into account by researchers,
because it does play a role in–influencing gaze patterns and fixations.
Even as I write this I do not see how such an admission would invalidate
what eye tracking can do, or make it equal to what psychics do.   Instead it
challenges usability experts to break open eye-tracking's usefulness as a
tool of research (some are up for the task more than others).

One debate that has lasted for quite some time is the relationship between
eye movement and cognitive processing.  With this said, it is important to
note that I have not misleadingly suggested that where a user looks reflects
what as user is thinking.  This is not a claim I am willing to make, as it
has been a worthwhile and largely contested area of research whereby many
theories avail.


Hanif O'Neil
Media Technician | Analyst

Skype:  rawintellect
Office:  +1 (415) 508 4116
Mobile: +1 (267) 879 9830

http://www.linkedin.com/in/honeil

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?(*edit)

2007-11-27 Thread Mike Bennett
For a brilliant example of the importance of attention in vision you  
should have a look at Prof Richard Wiseman's colour changing card trick:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voAntzB7EwE

Its a great illustration that just because your rentina sees  
something doesn't mean you will see it at a cognitive level.

BTW who spotted it? :)

There's a bunch of on-going research into visual attention - google  
will throw up lots of links (ah, if only google helped me understand  
it as well).

- Mike

--
Mike Bennett
PhD Candidate

Imaging, Visualisation and Graphics Lab
Systems Research Group, University College Dublin, Ireland

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?(*edit)

2007-11-26 Thread Jared M. Spool

On Nov 26, 2007, at 8:09 AM, Ron Perkins wrote:

 Thanks for the observations on eye tracking, I've never used one  
 but suspected that they were a lot of work and
 offered wonderfully precise answers to the wrong questions.

 Hey, wasn't that line from a Pink Floyd tune?

Nope. Nilsson's The Point. (Excellent story, if you've never heard it.)

Jared

Jared M. Spool
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510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +1 978 327 5561
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-25 Thread Robert Hoekman, Jr.
 So, all you can tell is where the center of the retina pointed. And,
 from a design standpoint, this tells you practically nothing.


Cheers to that, Jared.

One can only hope that a UIE blog post is in order. Someone as knowledgeable
on the subject as yourself could do the world some good by refuting the list
that started this conversation, or at least debating the merits of eye
tracking.

You don't mind being egged on, do ya? ;)

-r-

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?(*edit)

2007-11-25 Thread Jared M. Spool

On Nov 25, 2007, at 9:47 PM, hanif o'neil wrote:

  I would suggest that it has been through eye-tracking research  
 that this instance has been highlighted, e.g. Enquiro's discovery  
 of Google Search's Golden Triangle, where users ignored ads along  
 the right scroll bar of the screen (in order to ignore that area of  
 the page users had to see it first).  Though, more important were  
 the areas of the page that users didn't ignore, supported not only  
 by heat-mapped impressions, but gaze patterns and click-throughs.

And observation and discussion with the user. Which is a lot cheaper.

  If there is another technology that can do this please share?

Hah! *This* technology can't even do this.  There are three or four  
possible interpretations to eye tracking data that can take any  
analysis into completely different directions. Every eye tracker  
should have a sticker saying Just add meaning.

As the Rock Man said, You see what you want to see and you hear what  
you want to hear. (I'll send a UI12 Conference CD to the first  
person who can correctly identify *that* reference. Google is  
cheating. :) )

It's all based on interpretation. The Enquiro Discovery wasn't a  
discovery at all -- it was something many of us already had known  
through our work without the use of eye tracking. At best, eye  
tracking just confirms what we already know.

Look, you can use whatever tools you want. Hell, use a Magic 8-Ball  
[1] for all I care. (Can you say, Outlook not so good?) If you get  
mileage from it, go for it. If it improves your design, all the best  
to ya.

I'm still avoiding eye tracking for diagnosing problems with designs  
because I find it to be practically useless. And I'm recommending our  
clients do the same.

Jared

p.s. I'm seriously considering putting a 23 Web Site Design Tips  
Learned from the Magic 8-Ball post together.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8-Ball

Jared M. Spool
User Interface Engineering
510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +1 978 327 5561
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-24 Thread Hanif O'Neil
Eye tracking is not the end-all solution, then again (from what
I've seen) it hasn't been promoted as such.  It is an excellent
tool to help make designers more accountable to the functionality of
their designs. It also provides research teams further insights
beyond traditional think out loud methods.  It provides data on
how users instinctively look at and interact with a web page, or
email campaign.  This data does not offer feedback on whether a
design is good or not, instead it provides an understanding of how
well a design functioned: Did users see specific content or links?
And how long did it take them to see them in the interface?  Or from
an analysis perspective: Are users' click patterns consistent to
their gaze pattern?  What section of the page is experiencing a
considerable drop-off rate?   For research teams this data will
always be qualitative, and its meaning defined by the goal(s) of
their design implements.  






. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-23 Thread Robert Hoekman, Jr.
 For consultancies selling IxD expertise it gives a 'oooh shiny' moment
 for clients (and often for some practioners). Even if the commissioning
 client staff member understands IxD it gives a recognisable 'scientific'
 sheen to a report and therefore makes it easier to pry open the budget.


Jakob Nielsen is about to release a book on eye-tracking. One can only hope
that he addresses the appropriate contexts for use and how useful it really
is as a testing tool. But the simple fact that Nielsen is doing this means
that at least he thinks there's a whole lot more to it than oooh shiny.

-r-

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-22 Thread Tim
It is indeed fascinating to read the comments to the original article
- but I don't think you need to concern yourself with them too much:

Thanks for the tips and advice...I hardly ever take into
consideration the audience%u2019s tendencies.

...


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-22 Thread Jared M. Spool

On Nov 21, 2007, at 7:04 PM, Robert Hoekman, Jr. wrote:

 -Eye tracking can be useful for diagnosing problems, not so much for
 identifying them.


 That's an interesting point. It does seems like eye-tracking would be
 infinitely more valuable when used in conjunction with other things  
 - like a
 more traditional test.

Just like astrology.

Jared



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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-22 Thread Jack Moffett
But wouldn't the eye tracking experiment have taken a lot more time  
and effort than consulting the graphic designer?

Jack

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 22, 2007, at 6:08 AM, Adrian Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:

 Yeah. I remember one particular project that, in hindsight, I wish  
 I  had eye tracking data on.

 Turned out that a underline on a heading was drawing the user towards
 the wrong bit of the page. Once this was pointed out by the
 (smarter than me) graphic designer the fix was trivial. Eye tracking
 would have shown it up straight away.

 It's just a tool.

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-22 Thread Mark Pawson
The first thing that struck me after reading this article was someone
has rehashed a bunch of design guidelines from Nielsen and other
course materials on homepage usability. Slap a title of Eyetracking
on it and a slow day for a writer just churned out an article


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-22 Thread Adrian Howard

On 22 Nov 2007, at 19:01, Jack Moffett wrote:

 But wouldn't the eye tracking experiment have taken a lot more time  
 and effort than consulting the graphic designer?

If I already have my eye tracking equipment (I wish!) there isn't a  
lot of extra cost in actually using it - and I don't always have  
somebody cleverer than me to hand :-)

Having experts is better obviously. Hell, I'd have spotted it myself  
on a good day. However, we all have bad days and having another tool  
in the box is always useful. That list of discoveries on Seth's  
blog was laughable, but I'm just as miffed by folk who think all eye  
tracking is completely useless. Often misapplied and over- 
generalised, but that's pretty much true of all research reporting  
these days sigh.

The other interesting thing for me is that - as far as I can see -  
there's nothing _seriously_ technical stopping eye-tracking gear  
being considerably cheaper than it is at the moment. An IR source, a  
decent camera or two, and some darn clever math. I expect more folk  
doing research like http://talks.cam.ac.uk/talk/index/4650 on getting  
eye tracking working with consumer level hardware.

Hell I can get a crappy head mounted tracker for about USD 10k. With  
the exchange rate as it is at the moment that's less than the price  
of a couple of high-end Mac Books in the UK!

What happens when you can get decent eye tracking equipment for a  
couple of grand? If I had a bunch of eye tracking equipment I'm damn  
sure I could find some useful ways to use it.

Cheers,

Adrian


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-22 Thread Stew Dean
On 21/11/2007, Robert Hoekman, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 23 rules actionable lessons from eye-tracking studies:
 http://tinyurl.com/yrhydu

 I'm curious whether or not others on the list take this stuff seriously.


Simple answer is no, it's misleading. Text doesn't ATTRACT more
attention, it REQUIRES more attention. So whilst an image can be
glanced and understood quickly whilst you have to read text.

As with Jakob Nielsen's terrible 'Talking Heads are boring' article
what is happening is bad conclusion is being wrung from a fairly
meaningless set of data. In the talk head video people where listening
first, for example.

It's only real use is to test hypothesis, probably best in an academic
setting - not as a discovery tool.  But then I even see lab based
usability testing as second fiddle to infield ethnographic testing -
labs are great for impressing clients but it's all smoke and mirrors -
well half silvered mirrors.

Eye tracking has no use on a real project, something I've learnt by
talking to those who have had experience of it first hand. I've even
been told that 'heat maps' are very little use as the time element is
missing, yet that's what clients like.

In short - it's snake oil.

-- 
Stewart Dean

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-22 Thread Kevin Lee
An eye-tracking is the best way to micro analyze the pattern of
[you name anything]. At the end, the significance (or ROI) from micro
analyzing the scanning pattern of how people search for certain
information is insiginificant as the time involves in analyzing,
creating report, set up a meeting to report out, etc is completely
irrelevent to the needs of users. This is where 80/20 rule must be
applied. Is an eye-tracking helping us to solve 20% of problems that
contribute the success of 80%? I don't think so.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-22 Thread David Hall
I actually think we're missing the point of why eye tracking is used to
frequently.

For consultancies selling IxD expertise it gives a 'oooh shiny' moment
for clients (and often for some practioners). Even if the commissioning
client staff member understands IxD it gives a recognisable 'scientific'
sheen to a report and therefore makes it easier to pry open the budget.


Or am I just being too cynical?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Kevin Lee
Sent: 22 November 2007 17:25
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

An eye-tracking is the best way to micro analyze the pattern of
[you name anything]. At the end, the significance (or ROI) from micro
analyzing the scanning pattern of how people search for certain
information is insiginificant as the time involves in analyzing,
creating report, set up a meeting to report out, etc is completely
irrelevent to the needs of users. This is where 80/20 rule must be
applied. Is an eye-tracking helping us to solve 20% of problems that
contribute the success of 80%? I don't think so.


.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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[IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-21 Thread Robert Hoekman, Jr.
23 rules actionable lessons from eye-tracking studies:
http://tinyurl.com/yrhydu

I'm curious whether or not others on the list take this stuff seriously. I
haven't decided yet if I think eye-tracking is a useful tool, and although I
definitely have some opinions on the subject, I'd like some other
perspectives to form a better picture.

Several of these actionable lessons bother me. For example, One-column
formats perform better in eye-fixation than multi-column formats.
*
*
This seems painfully obvious, and also completely useless. Of course a
single-column is going to perform better - you only have to look at a single
column rather than two! But how does this help us? I'm certainly not going
to start using single-column layouts all the time just because it's faster.
When it comes down to it, a few seconds difference in the time it takes to
digest a page isn't going to make or break a user's experience. What matters
is whether the content is worth it. What matters is whether the value in
exploring the page outweighs the difficulty in doing so.

Another: Ads placed next to the best content are seen more often.

Again, painfully obvious. But does this mean that people actually see the
ads, or that they happen to fixate on them for more than a millisecond? Does
it mean they read them? Click them more often?

There are so many factors to consider in web design and usability, it's hard
to imagine that eye-tracking results can yield information that is truly
helpful.

-r-

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-21 Thread Murli Nagasundaram
Good points.  But this follows the old saw that to the guy with a hammer,
the whole world looks like a nail.  All that the eye-tracking tells you is
that the user's eyes spend a lot of time looking at specific parts of the
screen/page.  No more, no less.  Eye tracking provides useful inputs once
one has already developed a couple of alternative design prototypes.  It can
help one make design choices some way along the design proces, but
eye-tracking alone cannot drive design.  Indeed, I don't know of any one
technique which by itself can or should drive design.  Despite having a
strong techie background myself, I let my intuitions guide me in coming up
with rough cuts which then can be measured against various guidelines,
paradigms or methods.

I believe that guidelines are useful aids/heuristics for those who already
have an eye and a feel for design, and who therefore know when to respect or
reject received wisdom; but no amount of guidelines can turn a random person
into a designer.

-murli nagasundaram
www.murli.com

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-21 Thread Nicholas Iozzo
From Nancy Broden:
One question I do have for the eye-tracking supporters out there: if
the results culled from all the eye-tracking studies where
implemented wouldn't all of our websites look the same or at least
very, very similar?
_

I do not consider myself an eye-tracking supporter anymore then I
consider myself a supporter of Allen wrenches (it is just a tool).
Also, as a consultant I have never encountered a situation in which I
felt eye tracking was the correct tool for the job. If I was back in
academia, I could imagine lots of times I would want to use it. 

Those caveats out of the way, lots of standards and best practices
have evolved on where to place navigations and body content. But in
no way do all sites look the same. These studies mean something in
aggregate. You take the results from all of the studies and you use
your training and judgment to apply it. 

If an eye tracking study just reports the results as a list of
commandments with none of the data or methodology behind it... then
we really can not use the results in our day-to-day job.

_
From Nancy Broden:
Eye-tracking feels like a desperate attempt to scientifically
prove the value of Design (with a big D) . I don't have enough time
to wade into that one...
___

I can see coming to that conclusion if we are just using it to study
a small set of marketing sites or some e-commerce sites. But I
recently read a great article (sorry can not find the link, but I
hope someone on this list has it) where an eye tracking study was
used to aid in the design of software for radiologists. What they
found was that radiologists had higher dwell times on tumors that
they missed. They where able to determine some of the misses the
radiologists may have caught on their own if they where better able
to go back to past images. Given that the fast bulk of what they look
at are true negatives, their muscle memory kicks in and they mark an
image as negative before they fully processed it.




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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-21 Thread Leisa Reichelt
just a little sidenote:

it is fascinating to read the comments that people have left to the
originally quoted article - lots and lots of incredibly positive and
thankful comments with people talking of going back and redesigning
their sites as a result of this information.

it says a lot for the great demand out there for someone to make these
grand pronouncements about what works and what doesn't (with or
without context).

People do love their rules don't they.

I always find it a constant balancing act to try to give people this
sense of perceived value through pronouncements and actually getting
them to understand the context in which the design decisions are being
made.

Leisa Reichelt
Disambiguity.com

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-21 Thread Chris Keane
I think part of the problem with the article is that it frames eye
tracking as a tool for drawing sweeping conclusions, when it seems
far more appropriate for assessing a specific design and improving
performance in a manner similar to split testing (e.g. is this
heading getting ignored? What about if it were a little smaller?).
Eye tracking isn't relevant to branding issues or suggest solutions,
but it can give detailed feedback on a design's ergonomics and help
identify problems.


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Does eye-tracking carry any real meaning?

2007-11-21 Thread Rob Tannen
Ah yes, eye tracking - it's like the intelligent design debate of
our field.

A few points to add:

-The reaction of isn't that obvious to some of the points
reminds me of reactions to findings from usability testing years ago.
 Yes it may be apparently obvious, but that doesn't mean it's not
worth validating (see Freakanomics, for example).  

-Eye tracking can be useful for diagnosing problems, not so much for
identifying them.  For example, a viewer may miss a critical item on
the screen - eye tracking can reveal whether the element was visually
detected or overlooked and direct changes accordingly.  

-There are some specific applications where eye tracking is
particularly useful.  The radiology example was one.  Another is when
we used eye tracking to determine whether a novel interface feature
(spatially expanding visual cue in the periphery) was affecting
visual scanning patterns.

Incidentally, in some cases attention precedes eye movements, and
vice-versa:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/psocpubs/prp/2004/0066/0003/art4


Happy Thanksgiving.


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