Re: [PSES] ESD question

o: "Grasso, Charles" Cc: Ken Javor , "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" Subject: RE: [PSES] ESD question Charles, I've interacted with Ken on occasion through a LinkedIn EMC group. I see by scrolling down through this thread that there are several components to the conversation. As y

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Wah??? You had to actually touch the TV to change the channel? From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 11:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question It's probably not ethnicity directly, but skin resistance. This varies greatly

Re: [PSES] ESD question

on my part, so it took both the bad Force of a bad boss and the good Force to push me successfully in the right direction. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Douglas Smith Reply-To: Douglas Smith Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:16:45 -0700 To: Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question I also have

Re: [PSES] ESD question

I also have a copy of those waveforms and a paper Michael King wrote on one of my older Macs, can likely find it if needed. I was lucky to have been mentored by Michael King when I was younger. He is a great scientist/engineer and had a great effect on me. I was fortunate to have four great

Re: [PSES] ESD question

It's probably not ethnicity directly, but skin resistance. This varies greatly between people. Long years ago, when we had touch-contact channel change on TVs, we had to double the sensitivity so that one particular person in the lab could work it. When we took sets to a show, someone turned

Re: [PSES] ESD question

f standard writing activity, I doubt it’s simply inertia. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 *From: *John Woodgate *Date: *Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:26:38 +0100 *To: *Ken Javor , *Subject: *Re: [PSES] ESD question Probably h

Re: [PSES] ESD question

6:38 +0100 To: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Probably handed down on a stone tablet in 1910 and no-one had the courage to challenge it yet. (;-) John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjo

Re: [PSES] ESD question

PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org What with Doug Smith being active in this sort of standard writing activity, I doubt it’s simply inertia. Ken Javor Phone: (256

Re: [PSES] ESD question

This is going downhill fast but I¹m enjoying the ride! Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate Reply-To: John Woodgate Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:29:44 +0100 To: Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question I think the model should assume a spherical body of the relevant mass, which

Re: [PSES] ESD question

-5467 From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 2:35 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.

Re: [PSES] ESD question

: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:14:46 +0100 To: Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Yes, that's what Annex A says, but it's still a stone tablet. 'determined', 'shown'; by whom? when?  I'm not attacking the committee, because it may well be impossible to do better. But we should understand what sort

Re: [PSES] ESD question

... :-) Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Doug Smith Reply-To: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:06:06 -0400 To: , Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Hi Ken and the group, The model started out in IEC 801-2 which had a 150 Ohm, 150 pF model. This eventually became IEC 6000-4-2 at 330 Ohms and 150 pF

Re: [PSES] ESD question

testing to 'measuring jelly (Jello) with a micrometer'. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-06-19 22:05, Ken Javor wrote: Re: [PSES] ESD question Thank you! Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Thank you! Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: "Schaefer, David" Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 20:56:57 + To: Ken Javor , "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" Conversation: [PSES] ESD question Subject: RE: [PSES] ESD question Ken, Annex A in the 2008 edition has this to

Re: [PSES] ESD question

be changed. The question, 'Cui bono?' ought to be asked a lot in EMC committees. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-06-19 21:34, Ken Javor wrote: Re: [PSES] ESD question What with Doug Smith being active in this sort

Re: [PSES] ESD question

What with Doug Smith being active in this sort of standard writing activity, I doubt it¹s simply inertia. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:26:38 +0100 To: Ken Javor , Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Probably handed down on a stone tablet

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Probably handed down on a stone tablet in 1910 and no-one had the courage to challenge it yet. (;-) John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-06-19 21:18, Ken Javor wrote: ESD question Anyone out there know the origins of the 150

[PSES] ESD question

Anyone out there know the origins of the 150 pF/330 ohm gun model used in EN61000-4-2 and derivative standards? It seems it ought to be a human body model, but it isn't. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the

Re: [PSES] ESD question

that will see the coupling. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Douglas Smith d...@emcesd.com Reply-To: Douglas Smith d...@emcesd.com Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 10:19:40 -0800 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Actually, inductive coupling (Faraday's law) can generate

Re: [PSES] ESD question

o: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Actually, inductive coupling (Faraday's law) can generate thousand of Volts near ESD events, enough to breakdown insulation barriers! Just get a di/dt of 40 Amps/ns (a 10kV or somewhat less contact discharge) near a loop and see what

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Cheers, Cortland Richmond -Original Message- From: Ken Javor Sent: Jan 7, 2018 9:28 AM To: Cortland Richmond , EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Re: [PSES] ESD question Cortland: Faraday Law purely inductive coupling from an ESD event doesn't cause pote

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Title: Re: [PSES] ESD question I was working at Tandy Computers, and the EMC department was often blamed for strange occurrences.  We perforce had to become experts at demonstrating causes not within our control, and the software compatibility lab with its bare motherboards was one case where I

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Title: Re: [PSES] ESD question We are sometimes less than precise -- but it leads to interesting discussions.Cheers,Cortland Richmond-Original Message- From: Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> Sent: Jan 7, 2018 9:28 AM To: Cortland Richmond <k...@earthlink.net&g

Re: [PSES] ESD question

:00:00 + To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question  If the charge is still building up, the field is not static in the region close to whatever the charge is building up on. Just a philosophical point. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodg

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Agreed. Not very static. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-01-07 15:15, Ken Javor wrote: Re: [PSES] ESD question If the charge were truly static, and the charged surface topology were truly static, then things should

Re: [PSES] ESD question

t;j...@woodjohn.uk> Reply-To: John Woodgate <j...@woodjohn.uk> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 15:00:00 + To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question  If the charge is still building up, the field is not static in the region close to whatever the charge is bu

Re: [PSES] ESD question

: [PSES] ESD question Cortland: Faraday Law purely inductive coupling from an ESD event doesn't cause potentials that breakdown dielectric barriers; it induces potentials that cause bit shifts.  But to answer John Woodgate’s question literally, enough charge buildup with some capacitance eventually

Re: [PSES] ESD question

STSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Induction; I once saw motherboard testers shut down systems under test by just walking away from the work table at lunchtime. Sliding across the cloth chair seats generated a charge, and walking away biased the motherboards and shut everything dow

Re: [PSES] ESD question

o: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Philosophical issue there. If the field is really static, what changed to cause the spark to happen when it did, rather than at some other time? (A cosmic ray would breach the stasis.) John Woodga

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Philosophical issue there. If the field is really static, what changed to cause the spark to happen when it did, rather than at some other time? (A cosmic ray would breach the stasis.) John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On

Re: [PSES] ESD question

EE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Hi Ed and Ken, An ESD event can be produced without any direct addition of charge. It only takes an E field and two conductors near each other as in: http://emcesd.com/tt2001/tt060101.htm http://emcesd.com/tt2001/tt050101.htm <http://emcesd.co

Re: [PSES] ESD question

...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 6:21 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] ESD question Just curiosity. Spent a week in the cold frozen north. Single Fahrenheit digits (above and below zero) outside, snow on the ground, 70 degrees inside – dry air. Was able to generate some

[PSES] ESD question

if a vapor of perspiration and earwax will fluoresce? Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 6:21 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] ESD question Just curiosity.

Re: [PSES] ESD question

ct: Re: [PSES] ESD question I have had this happen to me using a conventional telephone handset as I rose from sitting on a bed. The charge available then was from the full capacitance of my body as opposed to the capacitance between the iPhone and the body. This has been going on for as many

Re: [PSES] ESD question

[mailto:d...@emcesd.com] Sent: 06 January 2018 18:28 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question <https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/emailtag/tag/2.0/1515263292/1f1617f6804b53a4713f5023a09a661a/1/e6b2e6caabff23ac8328d6a5dc39f227/39feccaef3f24eadcf81b440d32e4

Re: [PSES] ESD question

I have had this happen to me using a conventional telephone handset as I rose from sitting on a bed. The charge available then was from the full capacitance of my body as opposed to the capacitance between the iPhone and the body. This has been going on for as many years as there have been

Re: [PSES] ESD question

Doug, How significant are differences between the telephone/radar operators cases and Ken's experience? Equipment capacitances (higher pF for telephone/radar operators), discharge location and voltage (Ken's in-ear ear buds vs. "on/over ear" for operators), wire lengths and floating vs. earthed

Re: [PSES] ESD question

: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 23:48:01 -0800 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD question Thus is a common occurrence. The iPhone was not actually connected to you so the large E field induced a different charge on you than on the phone and hence the discharge through your ear (th

Re: [PSES] ESD question

://dsmith.org On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 18:21, Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> wrote: ESD question Just curiosity. Spent a week in the cold frozen north. Single Fahrenheit digits (above and below zero) outside, snow on the ground, 70 degrees inside – dry air. Was able to generate some

Re: [PSES] ESD question

wrote: ESD question Just curiosity. Spent a week in the cold frozen north. Single Fahrenheit digits (above and below zero) outside, snow on the ground, 70 degrees inside – dry air. Was able to generate some pretty decent lightning simulations walking around and especially stripping a bed that ha

[PSES] ESD question

Just curiosity. Spent a week in the cold frozen north. Single Fahrenheit digits (above and below zero) outside, snow on the ground, 70 degrees inside ­ dry air. Was able to generate some pretty decent lightning simulations walking around and especially stripping a bed that had some sort of fuzzy

Re: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD - My copy of 61000-4-2 found its way back to my desk - I have the ESD question answer thanks.

Gary From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:37 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Safety cost and ESD Given the implementation differences between US/Canada(?) and EU on the medical 60601-1 standards. EU the June, US June

RE: An ESD question

Thank you all for your comments and advice, it is appreciated. For your interest, the product had gone through approval and though there were some ESD induced abnormalities these were considered a low risk. It was the reports from two independent customers regarding a particular failure mode

RE: An ESD question

-Original Message- From: bogdan matoga [mailto:bogda...@pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:01 PM To: Gibling, Vic Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: An ESD question Vic: The ambient relative humidity should have no impact on the performance of the gut but only

AW: An ESD question

prooved to be an effective tool for achieving this. David -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von:Gibling, Vic [mailto:vic.gibl...@marconi.com] Gesendet: Mi 12.06.2002 02:26 An: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: Betreff:An ESD question Dear Group I tried to find David

RE: An ESD question

: Gibling, Vic; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: An ESD question It is interesting to see how easy it is to lose focus. The problem is not the humidity, approach speed, etc. as Richard has suggested. Yes, they are factors but not the problem. The problem is a massive design flaw

Re: An ESD question

Vic: The ambient relative humidity should have no impact on the performance of the gut but only on the generation of static charges. So, to improve the performance in the field, I would suggest that you increase the R.H. at the customer site(s) to about 50% which would eliminate the generation

Re: An ESD question

: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 3:26 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: An ESD question Dear Group I tried to find David Pommerenke article's in the Journal of ESD on the Web but alas no downloadable version was found, so may I ask the group a question? We have an ESD

Re: An ESD question

As has been pointed out by Mr. Woods, humidity is only one of many parameters involved with ESD. And simulating a dry environment in a chamber that's completely lined with metal surfaces might not be sufficient for simulating a dry customer environment. ESD failures at differing levels of

RE: An ESD question

| 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: Gibling, Vic [SMTP:vic.gibl...@marconi.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 3:26 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: An ESD question Dear Group I

RE: An ESD question

, 2002 3:26 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: An ESD question Dear Group I tried to find David Pommerenke article's in the Journal of ESD on the Web but alas no downloadable version was found, so may I ask the group a question? We have an ESD field failure which is occurring in dry

An ESD question

Dear Group I tried to find David Pommerenke article's in the Journal of ESD on the Web but alas no downloadable version was found, so may I ask the group a question? We have an ESD field failure which is occurring in dry hot countries ( no surprise )which can be recreated with an ESD of

[Fwd: RE: ESD Question]

Forwarded for Mike Hopkins. Original Message Subject: RE: ESD Question List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:06:48 -0400 From: Mike Hopkins mhopk...@thermokeytek.com To: 'Chris Maxwell' chris.maxw...@nettest.com,'Sandy Mazzola'mazzo...@symbol.com, emc

Re: ESD Question

sb14bd8c@symbol.com, Sandy Mazzola mazzo...@symbol.com inimitably wrote: In EN 55024: 1998 Page 9 Paragraph 4.2.1, I found the following statement: The application of electrostatic discharges to the contacts of open connectors is not required by this publication My question is