Hi All,
If you ever had issues with differing ESD test results between labs, you need
to see my Technical Tidbit of November 2022,
https://emcesd.com/tt2022/tt111822.htm
Show that article to your test lab!
The data in the article represents about ½% of the total data I have with
simulator
Thanks to all who replied publicly and privately to my question on ESD to metal
surfaces with non-paint coatings. It seems everyone agrees to treat them the
same as paint.
As Brian points out, the Standard I'm looking at (BS EN 61000-4-2:2009) is a
bit fuzzy using the term "
shall
penetrate the coating so as to make contact with the conducting substrate.
Coating declared as insulating by the manufacturer shall only be submitted
to the air discharge. The contact discharge test shall not be applied to
such surfaces. *
*In the case of air discharges, the ESD generator
the CD tip was designed to
punch through any coated metal.
Kenneth Wyatt
Woodland Park, CO
Sent from my iPhone.
On Sep 18, 2023, at 09:48, Sykes, Bob wrote:
Worldly Experts,
I have a question regarding the suitability of contact mode ESD
testing to plated metal surfaces. I understand the word
Always had the impression the sharp end of the CD tip was designed to punch through any coated metal. Kenneth WyattWoodland Park, COSent from my iPhone.On Sep 18, 2023, at 09:48, Sykes, Bob wrote:
Worldly Experts,
I have a question regarding the suitability of contact mode ESD testing
Worldly Experts,
I have a question regarding the suitability of contact mode ESD testing to
plated metal surfaces. I understand the wording in IEC 61000-4-2 regarding
painted and bare metal. Does the same logic used for painted metal surfaces
also apply to other coatings (anodized, plated
I really hope not. See my story 'How to lose half a million dollars':
/April 2 2014
From: Compliance (JH)
To: MJ54 Team Leader (BB)
Subject: MJ54 tests
Not good news. Model for testing (MFT) failed several EMC tests, and
there are safety issues as well. Details in a following message. Can we
@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. But in the case of ESD testing, IEC
61000-4-2 is not a very good standard. We knew this in 1996 where work done by
myself and others showed that the waveform needs to have a di/dt spec
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. But in the case of ESD testing, IEC
61000-4-2 is not a very good standard. We knew this in 1996 where work done by
myself and others showed that the waveform needs to have a di/dt spec to rule
out the uncontrolled high frequency ringing many simulators
I suspect that folks who have been directly involved with air-discharge
ESD can appreciate it's inherent, operator influenced, uncertainly.
Having run both internal and third party EMC test labs, I recognize that
few things are done "perfectly" (whatever "perfect"
e to catch errors. Daily
> and weekly verifications are required. In many cases, running tests on a
> known sample are OK, but that's dodgy for ESD, because repeated testing
> WILL cause damage.
> On 2023-08-12 03:25, Ken Javor wrote:
>
> No way am I jumping in the middle of t
cases, running tests on a
known sample are OK, but that's dodgy for ESD, because repeated testing
WILL cause damage.
On 2023-08-12 03:25, Ken Javor wrote:
No way am I jumping in the middle of this debate, but it is extremely
useful in another way.
A few observations:
ESD is by its very
No way am I jumping in the middle of this debate, but it is extremely useful in
another way.
A few observations:
ESD is by its very nature a chaotic event (air discharge more so than contact).
It is not entirely surprising that someone who has spent decades working on
something would
-6108
Email: d...@dsmith.org
Website: http://dsmith.org
From: John Woodgate
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 07:02
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems
That's right. It is good to call attention to problems that may
That's right. It is good to call attention to problems that may well be
deeply hidden or not recognized as a possibility, but it is necessary to
concentrate on the facts and leave out peripheral matters that don't
help to deal with the issue.
On 2023-08-11 14:28, Larry K. Stillings wrote:
You
V.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [External]: Re: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab problems
Doug,
Your once-a-year lab bashing is offensive, some years you do it more and
honestly I'm tired of not saying something about it. It's especially offensive
to people like myself whom has been running test labs for t
conclusions and
other information in this message that do not relate to the official business
of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.
From: doug emcesd.com
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2023 7:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] thoughts on ESD test lab p
Hi All,
Just a couple of thoughts on what a good lab should do for ESD testing and how
to protect yourself as a client from test problems.
1. Bring an Ohmmeter with you to the lab and measure the resistance from the
Horizontal Coupling Plane to the Ground Reference Plane. It should
If the board ground is referenced to DC return, you could discharge it from the
negative side of the batteries, if accessible.
Best Regards,
Charlie
From: James Pawson (U3C)
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2023 5:01 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXT] Re: [PSES] ESD standards
ursday, April 27, 2023 11:24 PM
>To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: [PSES] ESD standards for testing remotes
>
>Hello gurus!
>
>Does anyone know of an official standard for ESD testing remotes used for TVs
>/STBs etc?
>
>Thanking you in advance!!
>
>
&
regards
Charlie
Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
From: Chas Grasso
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2023 11:24 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] ESD standards for testing
Hello gurus!
Does anyone know of an official standard for ESD testing remotes used for
TVs /STBs etc?
Thanking you in advance!!
--
Charles Grasso
Dish Technologies
(c) 303-204-2974
(w) 303-706-5467
(h) 303-317-5530
(e ) charles.gra...@dish.com
(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com
-4528
Office: 702-570-6108
Email: d...@dsmith.org
Website: http://dsmith.org
From: Brent DeWitt
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 3:54:22 PM
To: doug emcesd.com ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Resend of complete message on ESD thoughts
I'll jump
field emissions from the
simulators, which is not controlled in the standard unless
recently revised. This needs to be done. I have seen many products
that fail by emissions. The emissions from many simulators are far
worse (10x or more) than any natural ESD event. There is at least
on
products that pass the tests rarely suffer from ESD failures in the
> field. But there are, even so, unresolved issues and doubts about the
> relations between the tests and actual ESD events. Because the present
> standard 'works', strong evidence would be required to supp
There are two good points about 61-4-2:the test results are
repeatable and products that pass the tests rarely suffer from ESD
failures in the field. But there are, even so, unresolved issues and
doubts about the relations between the tests and actual ESD events.
Because the present
Don't forget the seminal research done by WMKing on this topic. He was I
believe the first to measure the fast response of an ESD event through a
metal intervening object. Also, it is understood that the ESD test was a
consensus output in an attempt to provide repeatability within test houses
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
I hear, and I forget. I see, and I remember. I do, and I understand.
Xunzi (340 - 245 BC)
On 2023-03-06 04:14, doug emcesd.com wrote:
Hi All,
I have a few thoughts I would like to share with you on ESD that have
comes out of my private research into the field in recent
Hi All,
I have a few thoughts I would like to share with you on ESD that have comes out
of my private research into the field in recent years.
1. A 2kV air discharge can be much more likely to cause equipment
malfunction than any other discharge of any voltage.
2. There is no natural ESD
Hi All,
I have a few thoughts I would like to share with you on ESD that have cons
outbid my research into the field in recent years.
1. A 2kV air discharge can be much more likely to cause equipment
malfunction than any other discharge of any voltage.
Doug Smith
Sent from my iPhone
IPhone
Hi All,
I have been hinting at my efforts to characterize ESD simulators and have
generated a treasure trove of data on most modern ESD simulators for waveform
and E-field emissions to 5 GHz. This data can save an engineer, company, or
test lab a lot of effort during ESD testing.
The data
Hi All,
I have measured data on most ESD simulators on the market, characterized for
waveform purity and E-field emissions at a considerable investment in personal
time and resources. The data is quite surprising and is similar to, but with
more data than the work I did in the 1990s
Hi Everyone,What is the minimum distance for operational electrical DUTs from
ESD safe material inside an environmental cavity and where can I find this
information?Essentially an environmental chamber for PCBs and small electrical
devices connected to an interface.ESD material can be from
8eb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
ESD from flush mount rotating table. Floor mounted power receptacles were
cabled to avoid brush noise from power connections. Cables in the crawl space
under the raised floor, slide about as the turntable rotated, and the generated
a static
ESD from flush mount rotating table. Floor mounted power receptacles were
cabled to avoid brush noise from power connections. Cables in the crawl space
under the raised floor, slide about as the turntable rotated, and the generated
a static charge on cable insulation. Discharges could
error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail
or telephone and delete it and any attachments from your computer system and
records.
From: Paolo Roncone
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 12:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] ESD generated by rotating turntable
CAUTION:This
Hi everybody
we are considering doing radiated emissions scans during the turntable slow
rotation (about 5min/360deg) in a chamber with turntable flush on the metal
floor and sliding contacts.
The likely issue is ESD generated peaks coming from the sliding contacts.
Anyone has experience
rticles/what-are-zero-ohm-resistors-how-are-they-used-in-circuit-design/
>
> Manny Barron
> EMC Engineer
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 8:28 PM Akhil paul wrote:
>
>> Hello Experts,
>>
>> Is there any advantage by using 0 ohm series
hm series resistors in PCB for ESD and
> emission?
>
> Akhil
> -
>
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mai
] Is there is any advantage by using 0 ohm for ESD and EMC
CAUTION: This email was sent from a third party outside of your organization.
Please DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender
and know the content is safe. If you believe this email is not safe, please
forward
Hello Experts,
Is there any advantage by using 0 ohm series resistors in PCB for ESD and
emission?
Akhil
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list
Hi All,
I would be grateful if someone could share with me their choice of high voltage
or electrostatic voltmeter when verifying calibration of ESD generator output
levels under BS EN 61000-4-2:2009 / DEF STAN 59-411 Part 3 Issue 3 /
MIL-STD-461G ?
Best regards,
Phil Agar
EMC Engineer
high for
a lab to qualify to test ESD to IEC 61000-4-2.
From: John Woodgate
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 10:26 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing
That explains it: they want to be able to do the tests in La Paz
%20Perkins> www.researchgate.net search
my name
<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> p.perk...@ieee.org
Entropy ain't what it used to be
From: John Woodgate
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 10:22 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing
groups for gases.
Altho the article focuses on flammable gases it discusses it
relative to air which is the basis for ESD arcs of interest in other
situations.
:>) br, Pete
Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO B
That explains it: they want to be able to do the tests in La Paz. (;-)
==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque
On
They did it because the motor industry wants to have all its standards
in ISO (obviously they have thousands of mechanical standards), not IEC,
and wants full control over them.
==
Best wishes John Woodgate
Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
From: Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>
Sent: 29 July 2021 17:32
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing
in
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 5:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing
IEC 61000-4-2 specifies climatic conditions for air discharge, including
barometric pressure. ISO 10605 (ESD for road vehicles) is silent about
barometric pressure.
IEC 61000-4-2 specifies climatic conditions for air discharge, including
barometric pressure. ISO 10605 (ESD for road vehicles) is silent about
barometric pressure.
As I remember, air pressure influences the reproducibility of air discharges,
which I assume is why IEC 61000-4-2 specifies limit
I'm curious if anyone in the group has tried using an ESD verification
target mounted on aluminum foil faced foam rather than a serious piece
of sheet metal? My thought is that at the FFT frequencies of rise-time
and decay, the skin depth is going to be less than the thickness of the
foil, so
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
From: Dürrer Bernd
Sent: 10 March 2021 09:07
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] AW: ESD Failure per EN 301 489-1 vs EN 55035
Hi David,
I understand that only non-radio functions
Hi David,
I understand that only non-radio functions are affected by ESD testing, but
that you deem this acceptable according to the non-radio product immunity
requirements of EN 55035. The introduction of EN 301 489-1 states: "When it is
required to evaluate the EMC performance of &quo
of the transient phenomena, the equipment shall
operate as intended.
6. During ESD testing, the printer stopped printing and the customer had to
press a button on the control panel to continue printing. TX/Rx was not
interrupted.
7. For EN 55035 the pressing of the button to continue the print
Boeing in St. Louis, MO has posted a full-time ESD coordinator position on our
team and is looking for folks with 5+ years of experience with ESD standards
and/or ESD management.
> Saint Louis Region Senior Electrostatic Discharge Coordinator (JobID:
> 0211792)
>
> https:
achments from your computer
> system and records.
>
>
>
> *From:* DEREK WALTON <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:31 PM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] ESD - Floating metal knob, otherwise grounded
ecords.
From: DEREK WALTON <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD - Floating metal knob, otherwise grounded equipment
Oh Boy Elliott,
you’ll get a few answers here, lol.
My 10 cents is t
tates that ungrounded equipment or
> part(s) of equipment shall have the charge removed in between ESD pulses in
> order to not over-test.
> We have a product that only fails pre-compliance when repeated ESD pulses are
> applied to a floating metal knob without removing the charge in between
See 7.2.4.1 of the standard ( my bold text):
Rationale: Ungrounded equipment, or*ungrounded part(s) of equipment,*
cannot discharge
itself similarly to class I mains-supplied equipment. If the charge is
not removed before the
next ESD pulse is applied, it is possible that the EUT or part(s
Hi Everybody,
We're having some disagreements regarding the 61000-4-2 standard. In the
section "ungrounded equipment", it states that ungrounded equipment or part(s)
of equipment shall have the charge removed in between ESD pulses in order to
not over-test.
We have a product that
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
I feel sure, and I expect you do too, that the IEC simply cannot agree to your
first condition, because of the constitutional requirements of IEC and its
constituent National
email at you company. Tried to send
this but bounced.
Barth Electronics and I took tons of data this week on many ESD
simulators and more are coming. Barth’s measurement setup is likely
the best one on the planet. Jon Barth understands metrology of time
domain high voltage and high current
.
What would help is to populate the committees with a broader set of engineering
experience. Also, my opinion is that many of the simulator manufacturers
clearly do not understand what they are building!
Having been on various IEC and other ESD committee over the last 40 years
Hi Monrad and the group,
First, Monrad please unblock my email at you company. Tried to send this but
bounced.
Barth Electronics and I took tons of data this week on many ESD simulators and
more are coming. Barth's measurement setup is likely the best one on the
planet. Jon Barth understands
opinion, approaching really fast without causing damage is
so silly as to be beyond ridiculous.
How fast is lightning, an ESD spark ?
Approach really slow and note what static discharges that happen with a charged
tip.
How many humans have a regulated approach speed for the air discharge?
Vertical
No decent ESD gun should emit EMI pulses in the air mode, the contact relay
should stay quiet while the tip slowly (milliseconds) charges up. Most guns do
not do this and fire the contact relay at which point you do not actually know
the voltage of the air discharge. The only gun that does air
One example that comes to mind, out of a long history of wonderment in ESD
testing, is for an air discharge, pulling the trigger causes the product to
glitch, before approaching the product target point.
Found a way around the anomaly, to find not problem with the actual air
discharge
: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 2:50:46 PM
To: doug emcesd.com ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
The discussion is becoming more general, but perhaps it needs to be. The way
IEC works
substitute for face-to-face.
I applaud your pro bono activities. But to do all that and then jib at
digging out the papers you cite as the solution to the ESD issues
doesn't gel.
Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
IPhone: 408-858-4528
Office: 702-570-6108
Email: d...@dsmith.org
Website: http://dsmith.org
From: John Woodgate
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 1:28:51 PM
To: doug emcesd.com ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when
Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2019-10-15 21:13, doug emcesd.com wrote:
Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
They were in the EOS/ESD Symposium records for years in the late
They were in the EOS/ESD Symposium records for years in the late 90s or early
2000s. Some may also be in the EMC Symposium records as well. Look for authors
names including myself, Jon Barth, Ken Hall, Robert Renninger, and Hugh Hyatt.
There were many other people involved that I don’t have
Well, some of the set-ups I've seen appear to accept violent mismatches,
so concern about the cables may not be misplaced. But I still think that
an in-depth study of the discharge path, from source back to source, is
needed.
What is a 'reasonable waveform definition'? Do you mean a precise
again. Not you Doug, just to be clear.
I have long since had a problem with the standards world where they
focus on a “test” rather than addressing the REAL PROBLEM.
I’ll give $100 right now to the three people who can shuffle the
carpet, discharge into an ESD Target and get the 61000-4-2 wave
into an ESD Target and get the 61000-4-2 wave-shape. Seriously,, I’m
waiting for the first lawsuit against someone that says a products good because
it passes the “std test”.
To attempt to drive a standard to anally specify a naturally occurring random
event is ludicrous. At best what should
IPhone: 408-858-4528
Office: 702-570-6108
Email: d...@dsmith.org
Website: http://dsmith.org
From: DEREK WALTON
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:51:15 AM
To: doug emcesd.com
Cc: EMC-PSTC
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing
Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
This was pretty much done in the 90s with many round robin tests. The
culprit is the lack of di/dt control and lack of control on EM radiation
from the simulator. The two factors
A few years ago I evaluated eight ESD simulators over a year’s time at Bob
Vermillon’s lab at the NASA Ames campus, https://esdrmv.com. All had current
cal stickers and two of the eight produced very non-compliant waveforms! This
is a good argument that calibration one a year does not guarantee
I don’t think the price of an ESD would double, and even it it did, that is
better than wasting tens of millions of dollars every year borne by all the
manufacturers in unnecessary redesign and delay to market. There is no excuse
for poor test equipment design.
It would not be hard for me
*From:* John Woodgate
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2019 00:52
*To:* doug emcesd.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when
Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
No doubt it was very good work
: John Woodgate
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 00:52
To: doug emcesd.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
No doubt it was very good work, but its OLD. One or two new papers would be a
good
It is not difficult to make a good ESD simulator. The old KeyTek mini-zap would
meet the proposed di/dt spec.
Doug
Sent from my iPhone
IPhone: 408-858-4528
Office: 702-570-6108
Email: d...@dsmith.org
Website: http://dsmith.org
From: John Merrill
Sent: Tuesday
At a previous employer ran into the issue as Doug describes, using
different ESD Guns at different labs. Cal reports showed the ESD Guns with
the worst correlation issues were at opposite ends of the permissible
di/dt. Other than correlation issues and potential embarrassment of not
having
@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
No insight into what Doug mentioned, but before tightening up on equipment
performance requirements, with attendant cost impact to test facilities, I
would want to know
Doug referred.
Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261
From: "doug emcesd.com"
Reply-To: "doug emcesd.com"
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 19:41:42 +
To:
Conversation: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing
Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
Subject: Re:
products will all have tolerances in their output stimulus, even for
identical product models by the same manufacturer. And it is possible for
these tolerances to cause different product responses.
And how the ESD simulator is used can also affect the test results even if
the test configuration
My experience, is that all brands, commercial and custom private built, will
all make for different results.
The ESD generators can all make the required waveforms as poorly defined and
tested.
Yet each different brand or model will give different results.
Why ? Incomplete performance
at the ESD Association papers from
the era. Look for authors like myself (we were all involved with revising
61000-4-2), Jon Barth, Ken Hall, Hugh Hyatt.
Everything you need was done back then and rejected by the EU members for
various reasons that I do not consider valid.
Sent from my iPhone
IPhone
Hi!
Does anyone have any stories that can be shared of a product getting a
different ESD test result when changing the brand/model of ESD simulator?
I am a member of the US Technical Advisory Group (TAG) for CISPR/I
international standards committee (Electromagnetic compatibility
Hi,
Does anyone remember a paper that dealt with the fast transients measured
from two metal spherical objects inside a velvet lined box? I am trying to
track
it down - so (and no gaslighting allowed!) if anyone can dredge even portions
of the title I'd be most grateful.
Thanks!
Charles
Thanks to everyone with the their comments.
The schematic was submitted by a customer to inquire if a specific ESD gun
had such design characteristics. The only thing that I can confirm is that
the discharge network of 250 ohms / 400 pF. Since the discharge networks can
be made of any value
vor , "emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org"
Conversation: [PSES] ESD network schematic
Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD network schematic
Hi Ken,
You had made the note that contact discharge was used in the MIL test, but
the circuit presented and all stds back then were only air discharge that
for me.
Full scale ESD testing was certainly around at these high voltages by the time
Touch Tone phones appeared. It was this research at Bell Labs that lead to the
HBM model of ESD. We discovered that that model accurately predicted field hard
failures of Touch Tone phones. Current HMM simulators
@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD network schematic
Doug,
I don’t understand this:
“Ken, the circuit posted does not contain any method for contact discharge.”
MIL-STD-331B prefers air discharge when the discharge target can be attained
(like a connector pin). If the target cannot be acquired via air
² can be attached to the target that makes
direct contact with the ESD gun tip. The only requirement on the salient is
that it itself is immune to ESD damage and it doesn't compromise the ability
of the gun to deliver the required percentage of total stored potential (in
gun charging cap) to specified
Conversation: [PSES] ESD network schematic
Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD network schematic
It is obviously jistvair discharge only. I suspect this is from the 70s,
maybe earlier. The output rise time will be slow further indicating a very
early design when they thought ESD had a ten ns risetime.
Doug
Hi Richard – Where did you find the circuit you posted?
There are three different models used for ESD - the human body model (HBM)
the charge device model (CDM), and the machine model (MM) and … the circuit
you posted doesn’t look like anything I have seen!! It could be a “fitted”
circuit
be slow further indicating a very
> early design when they thought ESD had a ten ns risetime.
>
> Doug
> Sent from my iPhone
> IPhone: 408-858-4528
> Office: 702-570-6108
> Email: d...@dsmith.org
> Website: http://dsmith.org
> --
> *From:* Ric
It is obviously jistvair discharge only. I suspect this is from the 70s, maybe
earlier. The output rise time will be slow further indicating a very early
design when they thought ESD had a ten ns risetime.
Doug
Sent from my iPhone
IPhone: 408-858-4528
Office: 702-570-6108
Email: d...@dsmith.org
Greeting colleagues,
I am trying to find out what standard or document the below ESD discharge
network/ESD gun circuit comes from. It does not appear to come from either IEC
61000-4-2 or the MIL Standard.
The Rs and Cs are the discharge network for a specific ESD waveform. The LS
looks
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