Re: Sound Engineering Practice
I read in !emc-pstc that lcr...@tuvam.com wrote (in 3187EE460C488A458D4 dc186f40edc21049...@exchdan.us.tuvworld.com) about 'Sound Engineering Practice', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: I am struggling with one of those darned European directives, the pressure equipment directive. One aspect of conformance is dependent on the application of Sound Engineering Practice. Does anyone have a practical or authoritative definition of Sound Engineering Practice?. It's and idea that easy often thrown about, but it seem very hard to define. Sure, it's a catch-all in cases where the engineering is more an art than a science (i.e. more than seven independent variables!). It's 'what you see in well-designed products'. For example, where you can't design something by using recognized mathematical methods, you base your design on previously successful ones, not on dimensions, etc. revealed to you under the influence of mind-enhancing substances. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: STP vs FTP Ethernet cables (2)
I read in !emc-pstc that Meunier, Éric eric.meun...@ca.kontron.com wrote (in 5009AD9521A8D41198EE00805F85F18F0134036E@SEMBO111) about 'STP vs FTP Ethernet cables (2)', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: You may want to check if the FTP cable has a 100 Ohms characteristic impedance which would make it compatible with interfaces designed for UTP cable. STP cable is supposed to have a 150 Ohms impedance which is not compatible with standard 10baseT interfaces which are usually designed for UTP. This is only likely to give any problems on long cable runs. 'Long' means several wavelengths of the highest useful frequency in the signal. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co..uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: ENV 50121-5
I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com wrote (in 83d652574e7af740873674f9fc12dbaa675...@utexh1w2.gnnettest.com) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: The thorn is... I believe that the at least the scope statement of any standard should be public information that can be accessed as part of the regulatory body websites (whether it's CENELEC, ACA whoever). There should also be no fear of people being whacked for copywrite violations because they share the scope statement from a standard. Sometimes, the title just isn't descriptive enough. I agree. The IEC web site does have a lot of information in the public area, but not the actual Scope clauses. If an opportunity arises at the IEC General Meeting in Firenze in October, I will raise the matter. I call on anyone else who will be there to consider supporting the proposal that the Scope clauses should be publicly available. We do purchase standards that we know will apply to our products. However; I have been burned by buying standards that sounded like they would apply; but really don't. Indeed; this creates unnecessary and destructive aversion. I assume that a few others have had similar experiences; and that's why we see so many questions in the EMC-PSTC regarding standards applicability. Some companies do care about the cost of that $75 standard. I tend to compare the cost of the standard with the cost of the POS material that is binned! -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Sound Engineering Practice
Hi Lauren: Does anyone have a practical or authoritative definition of Sound Engineering Practice?. The key word is sound. Presumably we all know what engineering practice is. I checked Merriam-Webster's on-line Collegiate Dictionary and found the following definition. The 3rd definition would seem to apply in this case. Main Entry: sound Pronunciation: 'saund Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gesund; akin to Old High German gisunt healthy Date: 13th century 1 a : free from injury or disease : exhibiting normal health b : free from flaw, defect, or decay sound timber 2 : SOLID, FIRM; also : STABLE 3 a : free from error, fallacy, or misapprehension sound reasoning b : exhibiting or based on thorough knowledge and experience sound scholarship c : legally valid a sound title d : logically valid and having true premises e : agreeing with accepted views : ORTHODOX 4 a : THOROUGH b : deep and undisturbed a sound sleep c : HARD, SEVERE a sound whipping 5 : showing good judgment or sense synonym see HEALTHY, VALID Presumably, all engineering practice (at least by the subscribers of this forum) is (or should be) sound. Indeed, I suggest that sound engineering is nearly a tautology. (Look that up in your dictionary!) Given the definition, I would suggest that the determination of whether a design represents sound engineering practice will be in the eyes of the regulator, not in the eyes of the designer. Its a lose-win situation. You lose, the regulator wins. You do the best job you can to soundly design the product in accordance with the standard. This may mean that the designer should get up from his chair and take specific actions in regard of 3a, 3b, 3d, and 3e of the definition. You said, One aspect of conformance is dependent on the application of Sound Engineering Practice. I think it is smoke. The statement would be nonsense without the word sound. Its a weasel-word that says the standard doesn't cover everything. Which they could not say. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: LVD testing suite for ITE devices
For Ethernet ports you may also want to consider the high-voltage isolation requirement specified in the IEEE-802.3 Ethernet specification. I found that Ethernet isolation is usually not required as part of the EN60950 certification process but it may be a good safety feature to consider and can improve product reliability as well. (Sorry for the delayed response; My original reply bounced back due to a problem with my emc-pstc account.) Eric === Éric Meunier Hardware Architect E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com mailto:emeun...@teknor.com Kontron Communication Inc. (Teknor) 616, rue Curé-Boivin Boisbriand, Québec Canada, J7G 2A7 Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 2419 Fax: 1-450-437-8053 Web: http://www.teknor.com http://www.teknor.com -Original Message- From: Stuart Lopata [SMTP:stu...@timcoengr.com] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 12:35 PM To: emc Subject:LVD testing suite for ITE devices Can anyone point me to specific tests and standards applicable for safety testing for ITE devices? Specifically, we are looking to meet the low voltage directive for computers and computer peripherals ( such as hardware that plugs into the bus slots and wireless networking equipment that connects to pcmia or ethernet ports). Sincerely, Stuart Lopata --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Sound Engineering Practice
I am struggling with one of those darned European directives, the pressure equipment directive. One aspect of conformance is dependent on the application of Sound Engineering Practice. Does anyone have a practical or authoritative definition of Sound Engineering Practice?. It's and idea that easy often thrown about, but it seem very hard to define. Thanks for any ideas Lauren Crane TUV Product Service
RE: ENV 50121-5
Hi John, I agree with your view; which I understand to be. 1. Nobody can paraphrase an entire standard in a email without huge chances for error... and 2. A company should buy the standard if they plan on using it. This reminds me of a thorn in my side which I hope will get the attention of those that deal in standards. I know I have a reputation for being stumpish, so I'll keep it short. The thorn is... I believe that the at least the scope statement of any standard should be public information that can be accessed as part of the regulatory body websites (whether it's CENELEC, ACA whoever). There should also be no fear of people being whacked for copywrite violations because they share the scope statement from a standard. Sometimes, the title just isn't descriptive enough. We do purchase standards that we know will apply to our products. However; I have been burned by buying standards that sounded like they would apply; but really don't. I assume that a few others have had similar experiences; and that's why we see so many questions in the EMC-PSTC regarding standards applicability. Some companies do care about the cost of that $75 standard. (definitely not the opinions of my employer...) Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:56 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ENV 50121-5 I read in !emc-pstc that Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com wrote (in A9713061F01AD411B0F700D0B746CA6801 550...@vacho6misge.cho.ge.com) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: I am looking for a short description of ENV 50121-5. What does it cover? Railway applications. Electromagnetic compatibility. Fixed installations. What tests does it specify? What limits does it specify for tests? What you are effectively asking for is the whole text of the standard. Not sensible, not possible. Pay your USD75 or so for it. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Noise from flourescent light ballasts?
Not sure if this is germane to the list, but... Many newer fluorescent fixtures use an electronic ballast -- they use a switching converter or flyback to develop the high voltage required for the bulbs (laptop backlight elements work the same way). Apparently this reduces the amount of iron required for the ballast transformer (and $$$'s?), but has the unfortunate side-effect of creating a massive array of unwanted noise sources. Usually the switching frequency is designed to be just beyond the audible range, which is consistent w/ your description. As Richard noted, any switching / chopper circuit could be the culprit. The lights tend to pose problems for measurement/instrumentation circuits w/ high source and high receiver impedance (where capacitive coupling dominates) -- pretty intuitive when you consider that the bulb in the fixture has a large surface area at high potential, switching at KHz. frequencies. Timothy J. Christman Test Engineer Guidant Corporation 4100 Hamline Ave. N. St. Paul, MN 55112 USA www.guidant.com Opinions are mine, not those of my employer. My employer is evidently smarter. -Original Message- From: wo...@sensormatic.com [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:07 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Noise from flourescent light ballasts? We have experienced noise from variable frequency motor controllers used in air conditioning systems. There may also be some of these controllers in your factory controlling conveyer belts and other machinery. Richard Woods -- From: Chris Maxwell [SMTP:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum Subject: Noise from flourescent light ballasts? Hi all, We have personally experienced an interesting phenomenon. We build a certain circuit that detects a 20Khz tone. This circuit is housed in a product that has an EMI spray coated case. One of our engineers noticed that our techs on the manufacturing floor were having a difficult time setting up units on the floor. The tone detect circuit kept getting set off for apparantly no reason. However, back in the engineering lab, we have no problems. So we did a little experiment. We took a unit out to the manufacturing floor and opened its case (which is how they work on them in manufacturing). We held it up near the lights. The tone detect circuit went crazy. We put the unit down on the bench. No problem. But, if you leave it opened up on the bench and hold your hand over the board, the circuit goes off again. When we close up the case work, all of these problems go away. So, our obvious solution is to make a modified casework with tweaker holes so that manufacturing personnel can tweak the amplifier pots with the casework closed. But I'm still curious. What's causing the interference? I was wondering if flourescent light ballasts could be giving off an emission in the KHz range. (Maybe that's why holding it to the lights sets it off.) But what about the hand waving? If I assume the ballasts are giving off emissions, can I also assume that the human body can change the local field pattern? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Maybe its the LAN cables in the ceiling? Anybody else have a similar experience or some insight into this? Thanks, Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site
EIA 196
Good People of EMC-PSTC Sorry for the OT question. Global said that EIA-196 (Fixed Film Resistors) is dead; but there is nothing to replace this standard. What standard has superceeded 196? thanks much, Brian O'Connell Taiyo Yuden (USA), Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
Other standards with immunity testing above 1GHz: 1. IEC 60533 (1999-11): Electrical and electronic installations in ships - Electromagnetic compatibility 2. Some of the ship classification societies (DNV) In both cases it is immunity testing up to 2GHz. 3. ...and of course the MIL-STD 461-series . Amund On Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:15:19 -0500 rehel...@mmm.com wrote: We have recently purchased an Amplifier Research Model 25SIG4A and we use an AR FP2080 probe. We have two antennas for that range, a Schaffner bilog and an A. H. Systems horn. Other than the upcoming 60601-1-2 for medical equipment, are there any other upcoming standards that call out immunity testing over a gig? To my knowledge no present standard does. Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 == UMBDENSTOCK@Senso rmatic.com To: emc- p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: (bcc: Robert E. Heller/US- Corporate/3M/US) 09/05/2001 10:19 Subject: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity AM Please respond to UMBDENSTOCK Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Noise from flourescent light ballasts?
Chris, Fluorescent tubes are noisy anyway, but the old passive ballasts are starting to be replaced with active electronic ballasts. Those electronic widgets actually run at frequencies down near what you're using. Electrically they can be EXTREMELY noisy. The US has no real restrictions. As far as what you observe, the hand can act as a shield, or as an enabler which would enhance a picked up signal putting it right into your electronics. What's important is that your circuit is very susceptible when exposed and not when closed. That implies marginality in your design. You should take a look at just how much you reject and whether that is adequate for your needs. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 619 North First St, San Jose, CA 95112 -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: Noise from flourescent light ballasts? Hi all, We have personally experienced an interesting phenomenon. We build a certain circuit that detects a 20Khz tone. This circuit is housed in a product that has an EMI spray coated case. One of our engineers noticed that our techs on the manufacturing floor were having a difficult time setting up units on the floor. The tone detect circuit kept getting set off for apparantly no reason. However, back in the engineering lab, we have no problems. So we did a little experiment. We took a unit out to the manufacturing floor and opened its case (which is how they work on them in manufacturing). We held it up near the lights. The tone detect circuit went crazy. We put the unit down on the bench. No problem. But, if you leave it opened up on the bench and hold your hand over the board, the circuit goes off again. When we close up the case work, all of these problems go away. So, our obvious solution is to make a modified casework with tweaker holes so that manufacturing personnel can tweak the amplifier pots with the casework closed. But I'm still curious. What's causing the interference? I was wondering if flourescent light ballasts could be giving off an emission in the KHz range. (Maybe that's why holding it to the lights sets it off.) But what about the hand waving? If I assume the ballasts are giving off emissions, can I also assume that the human body can change the local field pattern? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Maybe its the LAN cables in the ceiling? Anybody else have a similar experience or some insight into this? Thanks, Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
No, EN301 489-1 specifies RF immunity from 80MHz-1GHz with the exception of the exclusion band for transmitters, receivers and duplex transceivers, see Clause 9.2 of EN 301 489-1 (2000-08). There is no indication that up to 2GHz be required. Leslie --- umbdenst...@sensormatic.com wrote: I agree that the 4-3 is a basic standard. EN 301489-1 is an immunity standard for radios and specifies the 2 GHz upper limit. As the foundation is established in the basic standard and there is a proliferation of personal communications devices, it would not surprise me to see other standards amended. For now, the product family standard due in 2003 is EN 301489-1. Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic Electronics Corporation -- From: Pettit, Ghery[SMTP:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:17 PM To: 'umbdenst...@sensormatic.com'; rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity The question that would then arise is this - what standard using EN 61000-4-3 calls out immunity testing above 1 GHz? EN 55024:1998 for ITE does not, nor does CISPR 24 upon which it is based. Unless a standard using EN 61000-4-3 as a test method requires immunity testing above 1 GHz, the added procedure has no meaning for a particular product. Ghery Pettit Intel -Original Message- From: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com [mailto:umbdenst...@sensormatic.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:41 AM To: rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity Bob, EN 301489-1 due in 2003 calls for radiated immunity testing to 2 GHz. EN61000-4-3 also indicates testing to 2 GHz due to the portable phone market. Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic Electronics Corporation -- From: rehel...@mmm.com[SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:15 AM To: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity We have recently purchased an Amplifier Research Model 25SIG4A and we use an AR FP2080 probe. We have two antennas for that range, a Schaffner bilog and an A. H. Systems horn. Other than the upcoming 60601-1-2 for medical equipment, are there any other upcoming standards that call out immunity testing over a gig? To my knowledge no present standard does. Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 == UMBDENSTOCK@Senso rmatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: (bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) 09/05/2001 10:19 Subject: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity AM Please respond to UMBDENSTOCK Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators:
RE: Noise from flourescent light ballasts?
Hi Chris, We have discovered that at least one fluorescent light product line has a circuit that operates at 34 kHz. Use or make a loop antenna and sniff your suspect area with your spectrum analyzer; then you will know for sure what the interfering frequency and source is. Good luck, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic Electronics Corporation -- From: Chris Maxwell[SMTP:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Reply To: Chris Maxwell Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:37 AM To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum Subject: Noise from flourescent light ballasts? Hi all, We have personally experienced an interesting phenomenon. We build a certain circuit that detects a 20Khz tone. This circuit is housed in a product that has an EMI spray coated case. One of our engineers noticed that our techs on the manufacturing floor were having a difficult time setting up units on the floor. The tone detect circuit kept getting set off for apparantly no reason. However, back in the engineering lab, we have no problems. So we did a little experiment. We took a unit out to the manufacturing floor and opened its case (which is how they work on them in manufacturing). We held it up near the lights. The tone detect circuit went crazy. We put the unit down on the bench. No problem. But, if you leave it opened up on the bench and hold your hand over the board, the circuit goes off again. When we close up the case work, all of these problems go away. So, our obvious solution is to make a modified casework with tweaker holes so that manufacturing personnel can tweak the amplifier pots with the casework closed. But I'm still curious. What's causing the interference? I was wondering if flourescent light ballasts could be giving off an emission in the KHz range. (Maybe that's why holding it to the lights sets it off.) But what about the hand waving? If I assume the ballasts are giving off emissions, can I also assume that the human body can change the local field pattern? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Maybe its the LAN cables in the ceiling? Anybody else have a similar experience or some insight into this? Thanks, Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Low voltage exclusions for railways
The LVD contains the following exclusion: Specialised electrical equipment for use on ships, aircraft or railways, which complies with the safety provisions drawn up by international bodies in which the member States participate. Specifically with reference to railways, does anyone know what what this actually means in practice? Regards Nick. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
I agree that the 4-3 is a basic standard. EN 301489-1 is an immunity standard for radios and specifies the 2 GHz upper limit. As the foundation is established in the basic standard and there is a proliferation of personal communications devices, it would not surprise me to see other standards amended. For now, the product family standard due in 2003 is EN 301489-1. Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic Electronics Corporation -- From: Pettit, Ghery[SMTP:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:17 PM To: 'umbdenst...@sensormatic.com'; rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity The question that would then arise is this - what standard using EN 61000-4-3 calls out immunity testing above 1 GHz? EN 55024:1998 for ITE does not, nor does CISPR 24 upon which it is based. Unless a standard using EN 61000-4-3 as a test method requires immunity testing above 1 GHz, the added procedure has no meaning for a particular product. Ghery Pettit Intel -Original Message- From: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com [mailto:umbdenst...@sensormatic.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:41 AM To: rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity Bob, EN 301489-1 due in 2003 calls for radiated immunity testing to 2 GHz. EN61000-4-3 also indicates testing to 2 GHz due to the portable phone market. Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic Electronics Corporation -- From: rehel...@mmm.com[SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:15 AM To: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity We have recently purchased an Amplifier Research Model 25SIG4A and we use an AR FP2080 probe. We have two antennas for that range, a Schaffner bilog and an A. H. Systems horn. Other than the upcoming 60601-1-2 for medical equipment, are there any other upcoming standards that call out immunity testing over a gig? To my knowledge no present standard does. Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 == UMBDENSTOCK@Senso rmatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: (bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) 09/05/2001 10:19 Subject: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity AM Please respond to UMBDENSTOCK Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from
RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
As previously noted, the new revision of EN 301489-1(EMC for radio) does increase the range to 2 GHz and does reference EN61000-4-3. It appears to be the first product/family standard to do so. Will shall see if others follow. Richard Woods -- From: Pettit, Ghery [SMTP:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:18 PM To: 'umbdenst...@sensormatic.com'; rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity The question that would then arise is this - what standard using EN 61000-4-3 calls out immunity testing above 1 GHz? EN 55024:1998 for ITE does not, nor does CISPR 24 upon which it is based. Unless a standard using EN 61000-4-3 as a test method requires immunity testing above 1 GHz, the added procedure has no meaning for a particular product. Ghery Pettit Intel -Original Message- From: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com [mailto:umbdenst...@sensormatic.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:41 AM To: rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity Bob, EN 301489-1 due in 2003 calls for radiated immunity testing to 2 GHz. EN61000-4-3 also indicates testing to 2 GHz due to the portable phone market. Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic Electronics Corporation -- From: rehel...@mmm.com[SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:15 AM To: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity We have recently purchased an Amplifier Research Model 25SIG4A and we use an AR FP2080 probe. We have two antennas for that range, a Schaffner bilog and an A. H. Systems horn. Other than the upcoming 60601-1-2 for medical equipment, are there any other upcoming standards that call out immunity testing over a gig? To my knowledge no present standard does. Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 == UMBDENSTOCK@Senso rmatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: (bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) 09/05/2001 10:19 Subject: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity AM Please respond to UMBDENSTOCK Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at:
Re: Noise from flourescent light ballasts?
I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com wrote (in 83d652574e7af740873674f9fc12dbaa675...@utexh1w2.gnnettest.com) about 'Noise from flourescent light ballasts?', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: I was wondering if flourescent light ballasts could be giving off an emission in the KHz range. Yes, if they are high-frequency ballasts. (Maybe that's why holding it to the lights sets it off.) But what about the hand waving? If I assume the ballasts are giving off emissions, can I also assume that the human body can change the local field pattern? Yes. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
The question that would then arise is this - what standard using EN 61000-4-3 calls out immunity testing above 1 GHz? EN 55024:1998 for ITE does not, nor does CISPR 24 upon which it is based. Unless a standard using EN 61000-4-3 as a test method requires immunity testing above 1 GHz, the added procedure has no meaning for a particular product. Ghery Pettit Intel -Original Message- From: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com [mailto:umbdenst...@sensormatic.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:41 AM To: rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity Bob, EN 301489-1 due in 2003 calls for radiated immunity testing to 2 GHz. EN61000-4-3 also indicates testing to 2 GHz due to the portable phone market. Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic Electronics Corporation -- From: rehel...@mmm.com[SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:15 AM To: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity We have recently purchased an Amplifier Research Model 25SIG4A and we use an AR FP2080 probe. We have two antennas for that range, a Schaffner bilog and an A. H. Systems horn. Other than the upcoming 60601-1-2 for medical equipment, are there any other upcoming standards that call out immunity testing over a gig? To my knowledge no present standard does. Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 == UMBDENSTOCK@Senso rmatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: (bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) 09/05/2001 10:19 Subject: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity AM Please respond to UMBDENSTOCK Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Noise from flourescent light ballasts?
We have experienced noise from variable frequency motor controllers used in air conditioning systems. There may also be some of these controllers in your factory controlling conveyer belts and other machinery. Richard Woods -- From: Chris Maxwell [SMTP:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum Subject: Noise from flourescent light ballasts? Hi all, We have personally experienced an interesting phenomenon. We build a certain circuit that detects a 20Khz tone. This circuit is housed in a product that has an EMI spray coated case. One of our engineers noticed that our techs on the manufacturing floor were having a difficult time setting up units on the floor. The tone detect circuit kept getting set off for apparantly no reason. However, back in the engineering lab, we have no problems. So we did a little experiment. We took a unit out to the manufacturing floor and opened its case (which is how they work on them in manufacturing). We held it up near the lights. The tone detect circuit went crazy. We put the unit down on the bench. No problem. But, if you leave it opened up on the bench and hold your hand over the board, the circuit goes off again. When we close up the case work, all of these problems go away. So, our obvious solution is to make a modified casework with tweaker holes so that manufacturing personnel can tweak the amplifier pots with the casework closed. But I'm still curious. What's causing the interference? I was wondering if flourescent light ballasts could be giving off an emission in the KHz range. (Maybe that's why holding it to the lights sets it off.) But what about the hand waving? If I assume the ballasts are giving off emissions, can I also assume that the human body can change the local field pattern? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Maybe its the LAN cables in the ceiling? Anybody else have a similar experience or some insight into this? Thanks, Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
Bob, EN 301489-1 due in 2003 calls for radiated immunity testing to 2 GHz. EN61000-4-3 also indicates testing to 2 GHz due to the portable phone market. Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic Electronics Corporation -- From: rehel...@mmm.com[SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:15 AM To: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity We have recently purchased an Amplifier Research Model 25SIG4A and we use an AR FP2080 probe. We have two antennas for that range, a Schaffner bilog and an A. H. Systems horn. Other than the upcoming 60601-1-2 for medical equipment, are there any other upcoming standards that call out immunity testing over a gig? To my knowledge no present standard does. Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 == UMBDENSTOCK@Senso rmatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: (bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) 09/05/2001 10:19 Subject: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity AM Please respond to UMBDENSTOCK Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Noise from flourescent light ballasts?
Hi all, We have personally experienced an interesting phenomenon. We build a certain circuit that detects a 20Khz tone. This circuit is housed in a product that has an EMI spray coated case. One of our engineers noticed that our techs on the manufacturing floor were having a difficult time setting up units on the floor. The tone detect circuit kept getting set off for apparantly no reason. However, back in the engineering lab, we have no problems. So we did a little experiment. We took a unit out to the manufacturing floor and opened its case (which is how they work on them in manufacturing). We held it up near the lights. The tone detect circuit went crazy. We put the unit down on the bench. No problem. But, if you leave it opened up on the bench and hold your hand over the board, the circuit goes off again. When we close up the case work, all of these problems go away. So, our obvious solution is to make a modified casework with tweaker holes so that manufacturing personnel can tweak the amplifier pots with the casework closed. But I'm still curious. What's causing the interference? I was wondering if flourescent light ballasts could be giving off an emission in the KHz range. (Maybe that's why holding it to the lights sets it off.) But what about the hand waving? If I assume the ballasts are giving off emissions, can I also assume that the human body can change the local field pattern? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Maybe its the LAN cables in the ceiling? Anybody else have a similar experience or some insight into this? Thanks, Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Installation Category III; UL60950
Dear All, Does anyone have a Clearance/Creepage Tables for primary supply voltages (up to 300 Vac) for a Installation Category III (equipment used for outdoors) per UL60950 (which refers you to IEC 664). IEC 664 is quiet heavy for my already tired eyes and I am sure one of you outdoor equipment expers have compiled a summary table(s). PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: ENV 50121-5
ENV 50121-5 Fixed Power Installations for Railway Applications http://www.yorkemc.co.uk/Technical/Tins/tin6.htm John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:59 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC Internet Forum' (E-mail) Subject: ENV 50121-5 I am looking for a short description of ENV 50121-5. What does it cover? What tests does it specify? What limits does it specify for tests? Thanks, DB --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
We have recently purchased an Amplifier Research Model 25SIG4A and we use an AR FP2080 probe. We have two antennas for that range, a Schaffner bilog and an A. H. Systems horn. Other than the upcoming 60601-1-2 for medical equipment, are there any other upcoming standards that call out immunity testing over a gig? To my knowledge no present standard does. Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 == UMBDENSTOCK@Senso rmatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: (bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) 09/05/2001 10:19 Subject: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity AM Please respond to UMBDENSTOCK Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Installation Category III; UL60950
I read in !emc-pstc that Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il wrote (in 2D1037012914D4118DB8204C4F4F50202D5DC2@ITLLTD01) about 'Installation Category III; UL60950', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: Does anyone have a Clearance/Creepage Tables for primary supply voltages (up to 300 Vac) for a Installation Category III (equipment used for outdoors) per UL60950 (which refers you to IEC 664). IEC 664 is quiet heavy for my already tired eyes and I am sure one of you outdoor equipment expers have compiled a summary table(s). Make sure you get the latest information, because this subject has been under intense review over the last few years. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: ENV 50121-5
I read in !emc-pstc that Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com wrote (in A9713061F01AD411B0F700D0B746CA6801 550...@vacho6misge.cho.ge.com) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: I am looking for a short description of ENV 50121-5. What does it cover? Railway applications. Electromagnetic compatibility. Fixed installations. What tests does it specify? What limits does it specify for tests? What you are effectively asking for is the whole text of the standard. Not sensible, not possible. Pay your USD75 or so for it. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Military Equipment and the EU
Hi Folks Here are the URL's for the EC Commission Enterprise Websites for the lists of national implementations of the directives listed below: General site URL: European Commission Enterprise Site http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/site-map.htm This leads you on the following URL's which list the national implementationing legislation for the directives in question. LVD http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/electr_equipment/lv/direct/transp.htm EMC Directive http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/directiv/transp.ht m RTTE Directive http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/rtte/implem.htm#Iceland Machinery Directive http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/mechan_equipment/machinery/impl.htm PPE Directive http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/mechan_equipment/ppe/transpos.htm In a very few cases (e.g. the Irish implementation of the RTTE directive) there are even hot links from there to the legislation itself. Maybe this will enable people in the various countries to look at their national legislation to see if they can identify any relevant national exemptions. As an aside - and equally relevantly - it also addresses the developing directive-implementation situations in some of the prospective new members of the EU! Regards John --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
ENV 50121-5
I am looking for a short description of ENV 50121-5. What does it cover? What tests does it specify? What limits does it specify for tests? Thanks, DB --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: STP vs FTP Ethernet cables (2)
I agree with Paolo, the definition refers to a shielded TWISTED-PAIR cable. Note also that twisted pair is hyphenated. While the definition might better have been worded to refer to 'one or more TWISTED-PAIRS, each of which...' rather than 'elements' it is not difficult to argue that the intention was that an 'element' was refering to a 'twisted-pair' and not each wire of the twisted pair/s. One might also argue that a cable is not a cable unless made of more than one separately insulated wires, but this is a somewhat more tenous argument. Dave Paolo Roncone wrote: Doug, I re-paste the first part of the definition in IEEE 802.3 (2000): 1.4.249 shielded twisted-pair (STP)cable: An electrically conducting cable,comprising one or more ele- ments,each of which is individually shielded.There may be an overall shield,in which case the cable is referred to as shielded twisted-pair cable with an overall shield (from ISO/IEC 11801:1995) My understanding is that elements should refer to individual PAIRS (signal/return), rather than single wires. But - as I said in my previous e-mail - I'd like to check whether this is put into practice by some vendors. So far I didn't get any clue on this. The STP cables that I found so far (form a couple of vendors) have just an OVERALL shield around all wires, and these are identical to FTP (Foiled Twisted Pair) cables that are also on the market. I agree with you, something doesn't sound right... Paolo At 09:36 05/09/2001 -0700, Doug McKean wrote: Paolo Roncone wrote: The reason of my inquiry is that we bought samples of STP and FTP cat.5 cables for 10bT ethernet applications from different vendors and to our surprise we discovered that both STP and FTP types have an overall (external) shield made of aluminum foil, but no shields on individual wires or wire couples (as per 802.3 definition above). Maintaining a characteristic impedence of a twisted pair by shielding the individual wires of that twisted pair? Something doesn't sound right. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- Paolo Roncone EMC Compliance Engineer - Cisco Photonics Italy via Philips 12 - Monza (MI) 20052 mailto:pronc...@cisco.com phone: +39 039209 1538 fax: +39 039209 2036 -- Regards Dave Instone. Compliance Engineer Storage Systems Development, MP24/22 Xyratex, Langstone Rd., Havant, Hampshire, P09 1SA, UK. Tel: +44 (0)23-92-496862 (direct line) Fax: +44 (0)23-92-496014 http://www.xyratex.com Tel: +44 (0)23-92-496000 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
Hi Don, From my time at a test laboratory, I recall we used an amplifier from Milmega. It was a 55W amplifier. It worked very good. Check out this one http://www.milmega.com/1080.html For field monitoring, we used the Amplifier Research field probe FP2080. Check out http://www.ar-amps.com/probes.asp Best regards Amund On Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:19:50 -0400 umbdenst...@sensormatic.com wrote: Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
