Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-02-08 Thread John Dammeyer
Hi everyone, https://tinyurl.com/rch38nk The above link should take you here:

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (do not worry to much)

2020-01-29 Thread N
> would not worry too much about who's RTOS you use. The concepts are > universal. First you come up with a high-level design and work out the > interfaces then you need to decide how wide of a range of hardware you need > to support. Then do some prototyping. You will very quickly have

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers --> Micrium open source

2020-01-29 Thread N
= > > > > -Original Message- > > From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com] > > Sent: January-28-20 11:55 AM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > > > rtems could w

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-28 Thread John Dammeyer
Thought I'd maybe ask a question that I think is relevant to this discussion. First some background. I've been using both licensed Light-O-Rama and the free VIXEN light show software. Back when I bought Light-O-Rama Vixen wasn't really available yet. Now it's pretty cool. For those of you

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-28 Thread Chris Albertson
lto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com] > > Sent: January-28-20 11:55 AM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > > > rtems could without doubt be worth a try but have only used FreeRTOS and &

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-28 Thread John Dammeyer
Silicon Labs) == > -Original Message- > From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com] > Sent: January-28-20 11:55 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers &

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-28 Thread N
rtems could without doubt be worth a try but have only used FreeRTOS and it work. FreerRTOS usually run scheduler at 1kHz and using one of the newer Micro controllers like Cortex-Mx which is a very common CPU in these with prioritized interrupts for higher priorities work really well. There is

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-27 Thread John Dammeyer
> >> On 01/26/2020 08:04 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > >>> I set my BBB aside when the Xylotex cape I had forced normally open > limit > >> switches. > >> The limit switch polarity can be set in software. In the > >> configs file directory, in file > >> CRAMPS.hal there is this : > > Unfortunately

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-27 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/26/2020 11:09 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: Hi Jon, -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] Sent: January-26-20 6:14 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson) On 01/26/2020 08:04 PM

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-26 Thread John Dammeyer
Hi Jon, > -Original Message- > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > Sent: January-26-20 6:14 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson) > > On 01/26/2020 08:04 PM, John Dammeye

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-26 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/26/2020 08:04 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: Other than as an experiment is the BBB worth it? A big Bridgeport has the room for a full sized PC. A small Sherline maybe is better with something like a Beagle. Also, there are mini-ITX X-86 motherboards that run LinuxCNC very well. You can

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-26 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/26/2020 08:04 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: I set my BBB aside when the Xylotex cape I had forced normally open limit switches. The limit switch polarity can be set in software. In the configs file directory, in file CRAMPS.hal there is this : # Adjust as needed for your switch polarity

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-26 Thread John Dammeyer
-Code translation.But for that an RTOS with the TI development environment may be more suitable. John > -Original Message- > From: Robert Murphy [mailto:robert.mur...@gmx.com] > Sent: January-26-20 5:19 PM > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Emc-user

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-26 Thread Robert Murphy
I think with Machinekit they seem to be trying to add too much too soon. From my Boof Head point of view, too many Bells & Whistles to keep the "Maker Community" interested and the basics have seemed to be neglected. TBH I could also be wrong on this point. In saying that I did use Machinekit &

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-26 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/26/2020 06:14 PM, Alan Condit wrote: Jon, Machinekit has done some very nice things. Where they fall down is they seem to have no stable release model. It seems that anybody can change anything and there is no fallback to a stable release. I tried to build Machinekit for the RockPro64

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-26 Thread Alan Condit
and compile, but, it left me wondering about the whole system. Alan > From: Jon Elson > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > Date: January 26, 2020 at 9:22:35 AM PST > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > > On 01/26/2020 09:10

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-26 Thread John Dammeyer
> -Original Message- > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > Sent: January-26-20 9:17 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > On 01/26/2020 03:10 AM, John Dammeyer wrote: >

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-26 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/26/2020 09:10 AM, andy pugh wrote: On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 at 05:34, bari wrote: I think NML is what turns off new developers. Most will never need to touch it. I never have, and I have been pretty deep inside LinuxCNC. NML has some inefficiencies, but does what is needed for single-node

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-26 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/26/2020 03:10 AM, John Dammeyer wrote: One can buy a CNC mill in Canada like this one for $27K https://www.kbctools.com/itemdetail/6-265-006-G23 Have you looked at Acorn CNC ? https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html It is an amazingly inexpensive commercial

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-26 Thread Gene Heskett
sourceforge.net > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > > > On Sunday 26 January 2020 02:57:28 Andy Pugh wrote: > >>> On 26 Jan 2020, at 00:56, John Dammeyer > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> . LinuxCNC stops being

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-26 Thread andy pugh
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 at 05:34, bari wrote: > I think NML is what turns off new developers. Most will never need to touch it. I never have, and I have been pretty deep inside LinuxCNC. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-26 Thread Peter C. Wallace
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020, Gene Heskett wrote: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:33:29 -0500 From: Gene Heskett Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers On Sunday 26 January 2020 02:57:28

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-26 Thread John Dammeyer
age- > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > Sent: January-25-20 11:57 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > > > > On 26 Jan 2020, at 00:56, John Dammeyer > wrote: > > > > . Linu

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-26 Thread Gene Heskett
On Sunday 26 January 2020 02:57:28 Andy Pugh wrote: > > On 26 Jan 2020, at 00:56, John Dammeyer > > wrote: > > > > . LinuxCNC stops being an true open source solution the moment an > > aftermarket hardware step/servo interface board is required. > > That rather depends on which board it is. >

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Andy Pugh
> On 26 Jan 2020, at 00:56, John Dammeyer wrote: > > . LinuxCNC stops being an true open source solution the moment an aftermarket > hardware step/servo interface board is required. That rather depends on which board it is. The Mesa FPGA code is open-source, and some people have made their

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread John Dammeyer
> -Original Message- > From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com] > Sent: January-25-20 8:32 PM > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > On 1/25/20 4:41 PM, Alan Condit wrote: > > I am just trying t

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Chris Albertson
ocated > someplace where it is convenient to wire all the axises from. So other than > the difference in cost what does this $5 chip buy you? > > Alan > > > > From: Chris Albertson > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > > Cc: > > Bcc:

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Erik Christiansen
On 25.01.20 14:41, Alan Condit wrote: > If you are running 6 axis on the $5 chip then you have all the wiring > complexities that we have now. The $5 chip is ideally suited to a distributed implementation with simplified wiring - power, high speed serial, and a synchronising clock to keep axes

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread bari
On 1/25/20 4:41 PM, Alan Condit wrote: > I am just trying to figure out your idea? Who parses the gcode file? The $5 > chip? > If you are running everything but the user interface on the $5 chip, it > sounds like headless lcnc to me. Yes. But the GUI should not be X. I assume it should be some

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Dave Matthews
No. Commercial software. On Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 22:41 Stuart Stevenson wrote: > Is Mach 3/4 open source? > > > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Stuart Stevenson
Is Mach 3/4 open source? On Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 4:56 PM John Dammeyer wrote: > Let's see if I can sum up this discussion and then I'll be quiet about it. > 1. LinuxCNC runs on PC type hardware generally distributed with WIN-10 > and is open source and free for download. > a) However there

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread John Dammeyer
Let's see if I can sum up this discussion and then I'll be quiet about it. 1. LinuxCNC runs on PC type hardware generally distributed with WIN-10 and is open source and free for download. a) However there are also PC compatible boxes designed for embedded systems but still initially

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Alan Condit
son > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 21:56:18 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:29 PM Alan Condit wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > If I send 1

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Nicklas SB Karlsson
> > ... > In an open-loop step/direction system, there is no way to > know a stall happened, except to operator hitting the > E-stop button (if he is watching!) And, after any E-stop, > you need to rehome the machine. > > But, if you have encoder feedback to the CNC control, then > you can

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread R C
right,  that is what the situation is now, you would need encoders, however, these encoders now are checked by the machine (linux-cnc) as the situation is now. On 1/25/20 9:50 AM, Jon Elson wrote: On 01/24/2020 11:21 PM, R C wrote: That makes perfect sense   if never anything goes wrong

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/25/2020 01:38 AM, John Dammeyer wrote: I agree there are all sorts of ways of doing this. Only Peter at MESA or perhaps Jon could explain what they do but I don't know if it's proprietary to their hardware. Well, it is not real proprietary. I can only speak for the Pico Systems

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/24/2020 11:21 PM, R C wrote: That makes perfect sense if never anything goes wrong what if one motor stalls, what if one signal needs to be re-transmitted? If neither of that is corrected... one axis is off "time shifted" relative to the other. For precision sake, you would

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-25 Thread Nicklas SB Karlsson
how does it stay in sync > with a smart > y-axis controller without someone controlling the synchronization between the > two? > > Alan > > > From: Chris Albertson > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > Date: January 24, 202

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread John Dammeyer
to do tapering. John Dammeyer > -Original Message- > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] > Sent: January-24-20 9:56 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > On Fri, Jan 24,

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Gene Heskett
On Saturday 25 January 2020 00:56:18 Chris Albertson wrote: > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:29 PM Alan Condit wrote: > > Chris, > > > > If I send 1 steps to a smart X-axis controller, how does it stay > > in sync with a smart > > y-axis controller without someone controlling the synchronization

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Chris Albertson
uot;smarts" as possible as close to the physical motor as possible. So let the motor driver figure out what rate to drive each otor so the targets are reached. Alan > > > From: Chris Albertson > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > Date: Ja

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread R C
That makes perfect sense   if never anything goes wrong what if one motor stalls, what if one signal needs to be re-transmitted? If neither of that is corrected...  one axis is off "time shifted" relative to the other. For precision sake, you would need feedback from one axis to the

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Erik Christiansen
On 24.01.20 20:27, Alan Condit wrote: > Chris, > > If I send 1 steps to a smart X-axis controller, how does it stay in sync > with a smart > y-axis controller without someone controlling the synchronization between the > two? One way could be for the host to pulse the x and y step pins in

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread R C
oller, how does it stay in sync with a smart y-axis controller without someone controlling the synchronization between the two? Alan From: Chris Albertson Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers Date: January 24, 2020 at 9:48:27 AM PST To: "Enhanced Machine

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Alan Condit
Chris, If I send 1 steps to a smart X-axis controller, how does it stay in sync with a smart y-axis controller without someone controlling the synchronization between the two? Alan > From: Chris Albertson > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > Date: J

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread John Dammeyer
> -Original Message- > > Where the beagle falls down on the Linux side of things, say compared to a > Pi or a PC, is the video processing just isn't as good. And it shows even > when > just running normal Linux compared to normal Linux on a Pi. > Well, I DO see a bit of sluggishness

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread John Dammeyer
g ideas up in the air. John Dammeyer > -Original Message- > From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com] > Sent: January-24-20 12:55 PM > To: linuxcnc-users-list > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > How are you going to do ethernet, w

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Andy Pugh
> On 24 Jan 2020, at 22:06, bari wrote: > > One thing that has come up when using LinuxCNC to control robots in an > automation cell is controlling more than one robot or machine at a time. That feels like a low-hanging fruit. Multiple LinuxCNC instances and a shared HAL area on one PC.

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread R C
On 1/24/20 1:27 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 24 January 2020 15:03:46 bari wrote: One thing that has come up when using LinuxCNC to control robots in an automation cell is controlling more than one robot or machine at a time. Or having LinuxCNC control the hand-off of parts between

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread R C
How are you going to do ethernet, wifi or "what ever communication"  that is reliable (which means the process has to be able to take priority), without using PCI or anything like it on PC style hardware, or even non-PC computing hardware? If you'd use anything affordable (which means

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 24 January 2020 15:03:46 bari wrote: > One thing that has come up when using LinuxCNC to control robots in an > automation cell is controlling more than one robot or machine at a > time. Or having LinuxCNC control the hand-off of parts between > machines and/or robots. > I don't believe

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 24 January 2020 13:47:38 Les Newell wrote: > >> On 24 Jan 2020, at 19:51, Chris Albertson > >> wrote: > >> > >> But we could design things so the requirements are VEY loose at the > >> highest level for 0.5-second latencies being acceptable. > > > > Not rigid tapping. > > And jogging

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 24 January 2020 13:46:37 Les Newell wrote: > > Humm pcbshopper.com, got a project "code" I can order and a doc & > > BOM I can DL? > > Pcbshopper is just a price comparison site. You enter the board > details and they poll various suppliers for the best price. > > Currently all I have

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread bari
One thing that has come up when using LinuxCNC to control robots in an automation cell is controlling more than one robot or machine at a time. Or having LinuxCNC control the hand-off of parts between machines and/or robots. On 1/24/20 1:33 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > Integration into ERP

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread bari
On 1/24/20 12:47 PM, Les Newell wrote: > >>> On 24 Jan 2020, at 19:51, Chris Albertson >>> wrote: >>> >>> But we could design things so the requirements are VEY loose at the >>> highest >>> level for 0.5-second latencies being acceptable. >> Not rigid tapping. >> > And jogging would be horrible.

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Stuart Stevenson
Integration into ERP systems? Integration into metrology? Machine cell controller? Focus on lights out operation. I know one shop owner that claims most of his operators already run 'lights out'. Other ideas? Thanks Stuart On Fri, Jan 24, 2020, 1:29 PM Stuart Stevenson wrote: > What should be

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Stuart Stevenson
What should be the roll of LinuxCNC going forward? Regards Stuart On Fri, Jan 24, 2020, 1:18 PM John Dammeyer wrote: > Hi Jon, > > -Original Message- > > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > > > > On 01/23/2020 11:45 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > > > I really don't know what

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread John Dammeyer
Hi Jon, > -Original Message- > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > > On 01/23/2020 11:45 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > > I really don't know what is going on under the covers for > > either the MESA Ethernet 7i92H or the Ethernet Smooth > > Stepper for MACH. But considering the

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Les Newell
On 24 Jan 2020, at 19:51, Chris Albertson wrote: But we could design things so the requirements are VEY loose at the highest level for 0.5-second latencies being acceptable. Not rigid tapping. And jogging would be horrible. Les ___ Emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Les Newell
Humm pcbshopper.com, got a project "code" I can order and a doc & BOM I can DL? Pcbshopper is just a price comparison site. You enter the board details and they poll various suppliers for the best price. Currently all I have are the KiCad project and the Gerbers. I need to write some

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Andy Pugh
> On 24 Jan 2020, at 19:51, Chris Albertson wrote: > > But we could design things so the requirements are VEY loose at the highest > level for 0.5-second latencies being acceptable. Not rigid tapping. ___ Emc-users mailing list

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 24 January 2020 12:14:01 Les Newell wrote: > Hi Gene, > > > Opto stuff, with their speed limits, are much more trouble than > > they're worth, I've cut many of them out of bobs. A limiting > > resistor and a schotkey diode to each rail s/b be input protection > > limit enough. > > I

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Chris Albertson
> > > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > > > The trouble with the Mesa FPGA design is that it depends on a computer > with > > good real-time performance. It

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Les Newell
Hi Gene, Opto stuff, with their speed limits, are much more trouble than they're worth, I've cut many of them out of bobs. A limiting resistor and a schotkey diode to each rail s/b be input protection limit enough. I have to disagree. Unless you need high speed, such as for encoders, optos

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/23/2020 11:45 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: I really don't know what is going on under the covers for either the MESA Ethernet 7i92H or the Ethernet Smooth Stepper for MACH. But considering the power of the processors running machines back in the 90's or early 2000's and that the mechanics

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 24 January 2020 07:34:27 Les Newell wrote: > > Not all, the 7i90 being a rather glaring exception, it's cheap for > > it capabilities but needs another $135 in 7i42TA's to protect it. I > > suspect that any of the Mesa cards that output via 50 pin scsi > > connectors have similar

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Les Newell
Not all, the 7i90 being a rather glaring exception, it's cheap for it capabilities but needs another $135 in 7i42TA's to protect it. I suspect that any of the Mesa cards that output via 50 pin scsi connectors have similar restrictions. Yes, the FPGA boards do need buffering but any logic

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Les Newell
On 23/01/2020 18:17, Chris Albertson wrote: The trouble with the Mesa FPGA design is that it depends on a computer with good real-time performance. It's rare to find a PC that can't maintain the 1kHz timing loop. Most can even do this using Ethernet to communicate with the Mesa board. I have

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-24 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 24 January 2020 00:45:17 John Dammeyer wrote: > Comments between. > > > -Original Message- > > From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com] > > The guy down the hall from me has been keeping RTAI alive for LCNC > > the past few years. I'm not sure if real time performance would be >

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread John Dammeyer
Comments between. > -Original Message- > From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com] > The guy down the hall from me has been keeping RTAI alive for LCNC the > past few years. I'm not sure if real time performance would be much > better using QNX vs Linux + RTAI on a PC. I think one first has

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread bari
The guy down the hall from me has been keeping RTAI alive for LCNC the past few years. I'm not sure if real time performance would be much better using QNX vs Linux + RTAI on a PC. http://blackberry.qnx.com/en/software-solutions/embedded-software/industrial/qnx-nuetrino-rtos There would be

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/23/2020 06:52 PM, R C wrote: I always wondered why FPGAs are(still?) that popular... Because you can develop quite a bit of custom logic on a $10 chip. One of my motion controller boards packs 4 quadrature counters capable of up to 5 million counts/second and 4 PWM generators with a 40

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/23/2020 03:42 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 23 Jan 2020, at 22:03, John Dammeyer wrote: It's likely the real number of LinuxCNC users is way way larger than one thinks. Might even exceed HAAS systems by an order of magnitude. I think PCW mentioned 10,000 boards of a particular type out

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread R C
. Wallace wrote: On Thu, 23 Jan 2020, Chris Albertson wrote: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 10:17:44 -0800 From: Chris Albertson Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"     To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine cont

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread R C
That is definitely true, I think.  Also, I think that RTOS is sort of a left-over from a few decades ago, because back then ther were no other options.  Nowadays it still has a place, although of course there are different way more sophisticated solutions. That pretty much works the same is

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread John Dammeyer
> -Original Message- > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > Sent: January-23-20 1:42 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers > > > > > On 23 Jan 2020, at 22:03, John Dammeyer

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread Stuart Stevenson
I don't know how many machines a month Haas sells now but around the year 2000 they were selling 1000 a month. On Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 3:44 PM Andy Pugh wrote: > > > > On 23 Jan 2020, at 22:03, John Dammeyer wrote: > > > > It's likely the real number of LinuxCNC users is way way larger than >

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread Andy Pugh
> On 23 Jan 2020, at 22:03, John Dammeyer wrote: > > It's likely the real number of LinuxCNC users is way way larger than one > thinks. Might even exceed HAAS systems by an order of magnitude. I think PCW mentioned 10,000 boards of a particular type out in the wild.

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 23 January 2020 13:17:44 Chris Albertson wrote: > The trouble with the Mesa FPGA design is that it depends on a computer > with good real-time performance. It can generate steps but I don't > thing you can run a position or velocity PID control loop on the FPGA. > > You asked about

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread John Dammeyer
> -Original Message- > From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com] > > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 10:17:44 -0800 > > From: Chris Albertson > > > > The trouble with the Mesa FPGA design is that it depends on a computer > with > > good real-time performance. It can generate steps but I

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread Chris Albertson
The trouble with the Mesa FPGA design is that it depends on a computer with good real-time performance. It can generate steps but I don't thing you can run a position or velocity PID control loop on the FPGA. You asked about "my controler". No this is not my idea, this is how most current

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-23 Thread Les Newell
PCs are cheap, easily available and easy to code on. They provide huge amounts of processing power for little money and are very well suited to GUI applications. However they are not designed for hard real time work. LinuxCNC does a good job but even then it tends to be a bit touchy if not

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-22 Thread R C
makes me wonder why a "cnc controller" doesn't work like a printer (yeah sounds naive), but 30-40 years ago it was unthinkable to print something half decent without using ink and a hand cranked machine (stenciling). Now you can have a color printer for next to nothing, you send the job by

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-22 Thread John Dammeyer
> -Original Message- > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > > On 01/21/2020 11:55 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > > Yes. I would not blindly recommend any of the RTOSes without a doing a > > more detailed design of the application. Nutx might be better. They > > are

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-22 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/21/2020 11:55 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: Yes. I would not blindly recommend any of the RTOSes without a doing a more detailed design of the application. Nutx might be better. They are VERY different from Linux. Linux boots of a disk that allows you to run other independent apps.

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-22 Thread Gene Heskett
On Wednesday 22 January 2020 03:06:38 andy pugh wrote: > On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 07:58, Chris Albertson wrote: > > I'd say to anyone re-designing LinuxCNC to keep > > this picture on your wall. The new software shoud scale from a > > small Harbor freight mill to a light's out factory floor. >

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-22 Thread andy pugh
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 07:58, Chris Albertson wrote: > I'd say to anyone re-designing LinuxCNC to keep > this picture on your wall. The new software shoud scale from a small > Harbor freight mill to a light's out factory floor. I don't think that LinuxCNC would be a good starting point for

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-21 Thread Nathan Hartman
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 4:09 PM bari wrote: > > FreeRTOS sure is popular. Have you compared it to other open source > Posix standard real-time OS's such as NuttX and RTEMS? > > http://www.nuttx.org/ NuttX is now an Apache.org Podling: https://nuttx.apache.org This RTOS has been around for

[Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

2020-01-21 Thread bari
FreeRTOS sure is popular.  Have you compared it to other open source Posix standard real-time OS's such as NuttX and RTEMS? http://www.nuttx.org/ http://rtems.com/ Any thoughts? I haven't worked with any real-time OS's much since the 80-90's. On 1/21/20 2:22 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > Doing