Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?

[Chris Albertson]

Yes, they are not actually made for use on aircraft but they are of that
style.  Even the way-cheap versions are very reliable and easy to use.

If driving a motor you really must do the math and compute the voltage drop
and keep it to maybe less than 2%.   Twisted pairs really do help.  I think
it only takes 8 wire diameters for the field to be nearly undetectable.
Shielding motor cables does not help much because motor cables radiate
magnetic fields as they are hight current and only audio frequency at
most.  But twisting does address this.   The field cancels quickly.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 4:42 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 30 April 2020 15:36:05 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > Voltage drop?  @26AWG has 0.134 ohms per meter.It might matter if
> > you are running 20 meters of cable.   As for connectors those
> > "aviation plugs" are good quality and not expensive.   They come in
> > 12mm and 16mm diameters (or more accurately with M12 and M16 threads)
> >   I've been using M16 for power and M12 size for signals so as to not
> > cross them up.  They have threaded locking rings that can be
> > opened/closed with no tools
> >
> I would not call them aviation quality when they don't have safety wire
> facilities to keep them from comeing unscrewed, and their thread fit
> tolerance is relatively poor. However its a much better connector for
> where it might get bumped and for handling a decent amount of current
> per pin. I've used them for years both for encoders and for motor
> connections. My fav cable for motors where 4 wire is sufficient is
> star-quad, the worlds best shielded microphone cable, shielding is
> around 120 db! 4 wires in a twist pattern that for mikes, balances out
> any noise, plus a mylar shield with a 68% tinned copper braid overlay to
> ground the mylar. Made by Susan Clarks japanese supplier, Clark Wire &
> Cable in Chicago sells it on this side of the pond, its ultra flexible,
> laying anywhere like well cooked spaghetti but while its made in 22 and
> 26 ga, the 26 does heat a degree or so if driving a 4amp or more motor.
> Get the 22ga if she has it. She doesn't always have it as she sells 10x
> as much of the 26 ga stuff. We bought it in 1k ft spools, 26 ga for mike
> cable at the tv station. Longest lasting, quietest cable thats ever been
> made and sold.  And available in quite a few colors so you can trace it
> easier in a tray with 200 + other cables in it.  Good stuff IOW. She
> also carries a 75 ohm video coax thats just as well shielded and just as
> flexible. I had to replace several miles of West Penn's junk at the tv
> station over the 18 years I spent there, because of intercable signal
> leakage.
>
> > On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 11:58 AM N 
> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 01:05:03 +0100
> > >
> > > andy pugh  wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:58, Todd Zuercher
> > > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > I've liked the cables I've gotten from Igus.
> > > > > https://www.igus.com/product/1074
> > > >
> > > > This looks good for a dedicated encoder cable:
> > > > https://www.igus.com/product/1117
> > >
> > > Without doubt, it must be an excellent cable. Ordinary Ethercat is
> > > good but maybe voltage drop will be a problem for power supply.
> > >
> > > > (and is available by the meter.)
> > > >
> > > > I think that Igus will also put the connectors on?
> > >
> > > Looked at this connector before, it is a good connector but
> > > expensive. Are not sure about any standard encoder cables but D-sub
> > > is readily available, really good and guess they are cheap.
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 April 2020 21:40:59 Przemek Klosowski wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 7:42 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > My fav cable for motors where 4 wire is sufficient is
> > star-quad, the worlds best shielded microphone cable, shielding is
> > around 120 db! 4 wires in a twist pattern that for mikes, balances
> > out any noise, plus a mylar shield with a 68% tinned copper braid
> > overlay to ground the mylar. Made by Susan Clarks japanese supplier,
> > Clark Wire & Cable in Chicago sells it on this side of the pond, its
> > ultra flexible, laying anywhere like well cooked spaghetti but while
> > its made in 22 and 26 ga, the 26 does heat a degree or so if driving
> > a 4amp or more motor. Get the 22ga if she has it.
>
> Under microphone cable quad star they have this:
>
>  http://www.clarkwire.com/cableMINK4.htm

yes, thats precisely it.

> it seems to be 24 gauge. Is that what you are talking about?

Yup.

> I didn't 
> see 22/26 gauge microphone: the FieldFlex heavy is 20AWG.

Which maybe is not only heavy-duty, but probably higher priced.  How many 
conductors can it be had with?, might be ideal stuff for a cable-chain.

In fairness to everyone, that all took place in the 80's and up to the 
middle of 2002 when I retired.  Been many gigatons of water under the 
bridge since, causing product lines to be consolidated I expect.  Give 
it a shot, I think you will be impressed.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 7:42 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> My fav cable for motors where 4 wire is sufficient is
> star-quad, the worlds best shielded microphone cable, shielding is
> around 120 db! 4 wires in a twist pattern that for mikes, balances out
> any noise, plus a mylar shield with a 68% tinned copper braid overlay to
> ground the mylar. Made by Susan Clarks japanese supplier, Clark Wire &
> Cable in Chicago sells it on this side of the pond, its ultra flexible,
> laying anywhere like well cooked spaghetti but while its made in 22 and
> 26 ga, the 26 does heat a degree or so if driving a 4amp or more motor.
> Get the 22ga if she has it.
>
Under microphone cable quad star they have this:

 http://www.clarkwire.com/cableMINK4.htm
it seems to be 24 gauge. Is that what you are talking about? I didn't see
22/26 gauge microphone: the FieldFlex heavy is 20AWG.

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 April 2020 20:35:55 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

> > Great, but from what to what, so the fix becomes part of the list
> > archive?
>
>  I started using *spindle.M.speed−cmd−rps *and it worked ok until I
> tried G96. Three hours later I found that I needed to use
> *spindle.M.speed−out−rps*.
>
> I don't know if this should be fixed because it's meant to be used
> when the spindle works with a gearbox as Andy kindly pointed. What it
> should be done is to specify that out in the manuals. The main
> difference is *spindle.M.speed−cmd−rps* doesn't account for spindle
> overrides while *spindle.M.speed−out−rps
> *does.
>
Kewl, and we even get an explanation too.  Msg marked. Thank you 
Leonardo.
>
> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 20:54, Gene Heskett
> ()
>
> escribió:
> > On Thursday 30 April 2020 19:25:16 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > > > However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something
> > > > I've never ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you
> > > > are probably just sending too many steps/second.  I could be
> > > > wrong, as its not impossible, but I'm thinking you may have
> > > > miss-read the Chinglesh in the manual. But do check the polarity
> > > > of the signal as it arrives at the vfd.  In that event,
> > > > switching to a pwmgen, running in pdm mode, may be the fix you
> > > > need.
> > >
> > > Indeed it sounded strange to me too, and when we purchased the
> > > boards to make the conversion we planned to drive the VFD with
> > > analog voltage like usual but when I discovered that feature a few
> > > months ago I decided to give it a try and save a 7i33 for later.
> > > It's working pretty well now and I tuned it better today. It
> > > accepts frequencies from 0.5 khz to 32 khz. We are peaking it at
> > > about 24000 khz but the problem I had was the step lenght  was to
> > > low for the driver to "see" the pulses. Now I only need to filter
> > > the encoder from the spindle to get rid of that noisy output wich
> > > is not hurting anything but it would look better filtered.
> >
> > I've had that noise come back thru the servo driver strong enough to
> > hammer the backlash and make it sound like all the ball bearings in
> > the mills head had suddenly worn square. A higher res encoder
> > stopped all that noise.  I can also run 10x the Pgain w/o any
> > instability. Sweet!
> >
> > > On other thing, css is scaled from x=0, if its not 0 as touched
> > > off at
> > >
> > > > the exact center of the workpiece, then css is going to be
> > > > miss-applied. It does have gotcha's in that regard.
> > >
> > >  Yes, I double checked that today and it was ok. My problem was
> > > the output source of the commanded velocity for the spindle. I
> > > spent almost 3 hours trying to figure out what was the problem and
> > > all it took to solve it was to change a signal name in the hal
> > > file :(.
> >
> > Great, but from what to what, so the fix becomes part of the list
> > archive?
> >
> > > El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 14:41, Gene Heskett
> > > ()
> > >
> > > escribió:
> > > > On Thursday 30 April 2020 12:36:00 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > > > > Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd
> > > > > velocity to a step generator in velocity mode. Could this be
> > > > > the source of the problem? Or does LCNC internally set the
> > > > > speed of the spindle based on the X diameter?
> > > >
> > > > I must say thats an unconventional mode to me. I know nothing
> > > > about your Yaskawa, but as a CET, one thought keeps running thru
> > > > my mind. Most vfd's will do a decent job of averaging a digital
> > > > command signal, giving about 50% speed for a signal thats high
> > > > 50% of the time. We often set steppers up for a true=logic low,
> > > > and feed the + line of the driver at 5 volts, and the step
> > > > signal to the corresponding - terminal at the driver input.
> > > >
> > > > primarily because our interface electronics can sink lots more
> > > > current in the logic low state than they can source in the logic
> > > > high state, its the nature of TTL circuitry and the capability
> > > > ratio can be 10/1. So an output that can sink 24 mills is a much
> > > > better opto driver than one that can only source 2.4 milliamps. 
> > > > If you feed that "inverted" signal into most vfd's, they would
> > > > interpret that 98% of the time logic high which you are sending
> > > > it for a low speed command, the vfd will treat it as if its a
> > > > high 98% of the time resulting in a high speed command actually
> > > > being done.  You should be able to verify that with the
> > > > halscope. Or most any scope with sufficient bandwidth to show
> > > > the steps as a well squared wave. If you are seeing a triangular
> > > > wave, the scope isn't fast enough.
> > > >
> > > > However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something
> > > > I've never ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you
> > > > are probably just sending too many 

Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

By the way, now that I have a really complex machine I can notice lots of
things I didn't notice/learned before. So if I can help to improve the
manuals I'm more than ok with that. At least, it's a good starting point to
give something back to this awesome community. But I really don't know how
are you guys managing that.

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 21:35, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> Great, but from what to what, so the fix becomes part of the list
>> archive?
>
>
>  I started using *spindle.M.speed−cmd−rps *and it worked ok until I tried
> G96. Three hours later I found that I needed to use
> *spindle.M.speed−out−rps*.
>
> I don't know if this should be fixed because it's meant to be used when
> the spindle works with a gearbox as Andy kindly pointed. What it should be
> done is to specify that out in the manuals. The main difference is
> *spindle.M.speed−cmd−rps* doesn't account for spindle overrides while 
> *spindle.M.speed−out−rps
> *does.
>
>
>
> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 20:54, Gene Heskett ()
> escribió:
>
>> On Thursday 30 April 2020 19:25:16 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>>
>> > > However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something I've
>> > > never ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you are
>> > > probably just sending too many steps/second.  I could be wrong, as
>> > > its not impossible, but I'm thinking you may have miss-read the
>> > > Chinglesh in the manual. But do check the polarity of the signal as
>> > > it arrives at the vfd.  In that event, switching to a pwmgen,
>> > > running in pdm mode, may be the fix you need.
>> >
>> > Indeed it sounded strange to me too, and when we purchased the boards
>> > to make the conversion we planned to drive the VFD with analog voltage
>> > like usual but when I discovered that feature a few months ago I
>> > decided to give it a try and save a 7i33 for later. It's working
>> > pretty well now and I tuned it better today. It accepts frequencies
>> > from 0.5 khz to 32 khz. We are peaking it at about 24000 khz but the
>> > problem I had was the step lenght  was to low for the driver to "see"
>> > the pulses. Now I only need to filter the encoder from the spindle to
>> > get rid of that noisy output wich is not hurting anything but it would
>> > look better filtered.
>>
>> I've had that noise come back thru the servo driver strong enough to
>> hammer the backlash and make it sound like all the ball bearings in the
>> mills head had suddenly worn square. A higher res encoder stopped all
>> that noise.  I can also run 10x the Pgain w/o any instability. Sweet!
>>
>> > On other thing, css is scaled from x=0, if its not 0 as touched off at
>> >
>> > > the exact center of the workpiece, then css is going to be
>> > > miss-applied. It does have gotcha's in that regard.
>> >
>> >  Yes, I double checked that today and it was ok. My problem was the
>> > output source of the commanded velocity for the spindle. I spent
>> > almost 3 hours trying to figure out what was the problem and all it
>> > took to solve it was to change a signal name in the hal file :(.
>> >
>> Great, but from what to what, so the fix becomes part of the list
>> archive?
>>
>> > El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 14:41, Gene Heskett
>> > ()
>> >
>> > escribió:
>> > > On Thursday 30 April 2020 12:36:00 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>> > > > Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd velocity
>> > > > to a step generator in velocity mode. Could this be the source of
>> > > > the problem? Or does LCNC internally set the speed of the spindle
>> > > > based on the X diameter?
>> > >
>> > > I must say thats an unconventional mode to me. I know nothing about
>> > > your Yaskawa, but as a CET, one thought keeps running thru my mind.
>> > > Most vfd's will do a decent job of averaging a digital command
>> > > signal, giving about 50% speed for a signal thats high 50% of the
>> > > time. We often set steppers up for a true=logic low, and feed the +
>> > > line of the driver at 5 volts, and the step signal to the
>> > > corresponding - terminal at the driver input.
>> > >
>> > > primarily because our interface electronics can sink lots more
>> > > current in the logic low state than they can source in the logic
>> > > high state, its the nature of TTL circuitry and the capability ratio
>> > > can be 10/1. So an output that can sink 24 mills is a much better
>> > > opto driver than one that can only source 2.4 milliamps.  If you
>> > > feed that "inverted" signal into most vfd's, they would interpret
>> > > that 98% of the time logic high which you are sending it for a low
>> > > speed command, the vfd will treat it as if its a high 98% of the
>> > > time resulting in a high speed command actually being done.  You
>> > > should be able to verify that with the halscope. Or most any scope
>> > > with sufficient bandwidth to show the steps as a well squared wave.
>> > > If you are seeing a triangular wave, the scope isn't fast enough.
>> > >
>> > > 

Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> Great, but from what to what, so the fix becomes part of the list
> archive?


 I started using *spindle.M.speed−cmd−rps *and it worked ok until I tried
G96. Three hours later I found that I needed to use
*spindle.M.speed−out−rps*.

I don't know if this should be fixed because it's meant to be used when the
spindle works with a gearbox as Andy kindly pointed. What it should be done
is to specify that out in the manuals. The main difference is
*spindle.M.speed−cmd−rps* doesn't account for spindle overrides while
*spindle.M.speed−out−rps
*does.



El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 20:54, Gene Heskett ()
escribió:

> On Thursday 30 April 2020 19:25:16 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>
> > > However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something I've
> > > never ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you are
> > > probably just sending too many steps/second.  I could be wrong, as
> > > its not impossible, but I'm thinking you may have miss-read the
> > > Chinglesh in the manual. But do check the polarity of the signal as
> > > it arrives at the vfd.  In that event, switching to a pwmgen,
> > > running in pdm mode, may be the fix you need.
> >
> > Indeed it sounded strange to me too, and when we purchased the boards
> > to make the conversion we planned to drive the VFD with analog voltage
> > like usual but when I discovered that feature a few months ago I
> > decided to give it a try and save a 7i33 for later. It's working
> > pretty well now and I tuned it better today. It accepts frequencies
> > from 0.5 khz to 32 khz. We are peaking it at about 24000 khz but the
> > problem I had was the step lenght  was to low for the driver to "see"
> > the pulses. Now I only need to filter the encoder from the spindle to
> > get rid of that noisy output wich is not hurting anything but it would
> > look better filtered.
>
> I've had that noise come back thru the servo driver strong enough to
> hammer the backlash and make it sound like all the ball bearings in the
> mills head had suddenly worn square. A higher res encoder stopped all
> that noise.  I can also run 10x the Pgain w/o any instability. Sweet!
>
> > On other thing, css is scaled from x=0, if its not 0 as touched off at
> >
> > > the exact center of the workpiece, then css is going to be
> > > miss-applied. It does have gotcha's in that regard.
> >
> >  Yes, I double checked that today and it was ok. My problem was the
> > output source of the commanded velocity for the spindle. I spent
> > almost 3 hours trying to figure out what was the problem and all it
> > took to solve it was to change a signal name in the hal file :(.
> >
> Great, but from what to what, so the fix becomes part of the list
> archive?
>
> > El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 14:41, Gene Heskett
> > ()
> >
> > escribió:
> > > On Thursday 30 April 2020 12:36:00 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > > > Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd velocity
> > > > to a step generator in velocity mode. Could this be the source of
> > > > the problem? Or does LCNC internally set the speed of the spindle
> > > > based on the X diameter?
> > >
> > > I must say thats an unconventional mode to me. I know nothing about
> > > your Yaskawa, but as a CET, one thought keeps running thru my mind.
> > > Most vfd's will do a decent job of averaging a digital command
> > > signal, giving about 50% speed for a signal thats high 50% of the
> > > time. We often set steppers up for a true=logic low, and feed the +
> > > line of the driver at 5 volts, and the step signal to the
> > > corresponding - terminal at the driver input.
> > >
> > > primarily because our interface electronics can sink lots more
> > > current in the logic low state than they can source in the logic
> > > high state, its the nature of TTL circuitry and the capability ratio
> > > can be 10/1. So an output that can sink 24 mills is a much better
> > > opto driver than one that can only source 2.4 milliamps.  If you
> > > feed that "inverted" signal into most vfd's, they would interpret
> > > that 98% of the time logic high which you are sending it for a low
> > > speed command, the vfd will treat it as if its a high 98% of the
> > > time resulting in a high speed command actually being done.  You
> > > should be able to verify that with the halscope. Or most any scope
> > > with sufficient bandwidth to show the steps as a well squared wave.
> > > If you are seeing a triangular wave, the scope isn't fast enough.
> > >
> > > However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something I've
> > > never ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you are
> > > probably just sending too many steps/second.  I could be wrong, as
> > > its not impossible, but I'm thinking you may have miss-read the
> > > Chinglesh in the manual. But do check the polarity of the signal as
> > > it arrives at the vfd.  In that event, switching to a pwmgen,
> > > running in pdm mode, may be the fix you need.
> > >
> > > On other thing, css is scaled from 

Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 April 2020 19:25:16 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

> > However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something I've
> > never ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you are
> > probably just sending too many steps/second.  I could be wrong, as
> > its not impossible, but I'm thinking you may have miss-read the
> > Chinglesh in the manual. But do check the polarity of the signal as
> > it arrives at the vfd.  In that event, switching to a pwmgen,
> > running in pdm mode, may be the fix you need.
>
> Indeed it sounded strange to me too, and when we purchased the boards
> to make the conversion we planned to drive the VFD with analog voltage
> like usual but when I discovered that feature a few months ago I
> decided to give it a try and save a 7i33 for later. It's working
> pretty well now and I tuned it better today. It accepts frequencies
> from 0.5 khz to 32 khz. We are peaking it at about 24000 khz but the
> problem I had was the step lenght  was to low for the driver to "see"
> the pulses. Now I only need to filter the encoder from the spindle to
> get rid of that noisy output wich is not hurting anything but it would
> look better filtered.

I've had that noise come back thru the servo driver strong enough to 
hammer the backlash and make it sound like all the ball bearings in the 
mills head had suddenly worn square. A higher res encoder stopped all 
that noise.  I can also run 10x the Pgain w/o any instability. Sweet!

> On other thing, css is scaled from x=0, if its not 0 as touched off at
>
> > the exact center of the workpiece, then css is going to be
> > miss-applied. It does have gotcha's in that regard.
>
>  Yes, I double checked that today and it was ok. My problem was the
> output source of the commanded velocity for the spindle. I spent
> almost 3 hours trying to figure out what was the problem and all it
> took to solve it was to change a signal name in the hal file :(.
>
Great, but from what to what, so the fix becomes part of the list 
archive?

> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 14:41, Gene Heskett
> ()
>
> escribió:
> > On Thursday 30 April 2020 12:36:00 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > > Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd velocity
> > > to a step generator in velocity mode. Could this be the source of
> > > the problem? Or does LCNC internally set the speed of the spindle
> > > based on the X diameter?
> >
> > I must say thats an unconventional mode to me. I know nothing about
> > your Yaskawa, but as a CET, one thought keeps running thru my mind. 
> > Most vfd's will do a decent job of averaging a digital command
> > signal, giving about 50% speed for a signal thats high 50% of the
> > time. We often set steppers up for a true=logic low, and feed the +
> > line of the driver at 5 volts, and the step signal to the
> > corresponding - terminal at the driver input.
> >
> > primarily because our interface electronics can sink lots more
> > current in the logic low state than they can source in the logic
> > high state, its the nature of TTL circuitry and the capability ratio
> > can be 10/1. So an output that can sink 24 mills is a much better
> > opto driver than one that can only source 2.4 milliamps.  If you
> > feed that "inverted" signal into most vfd's, they would interpret
> > that 98% of the time logic high which you are sending it for a low
> > speed command, the vfd will treat it as if its a high 98% of the
> > time resulting in a high speed command actually being done.  You
> > should be able to verify that with the halscope. Or most any scope
> > with sufficient bandwidth to show the steps as a well squared wave. 
> > If you are seeing a triangular wave, the scope isn't fast enough.
> >
> > However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something I've
> > never ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you are
> > probably just sending too many steps/second.  I could be wrong, as
> > its not impossible, but I'm thinking you may have miss-read the
> > Chinglesh in the manual. But do check the polarity of the signal as
> > it arrives at the vfd.  In that event, switching to a pwmgen,
> > running in pdm mode, may be the fix you need.
> >
> > On other thing, css is scaled from x=0, if its not 0 as touched off
> > at the exact center of the workpiece, then css is going to be
> > miss-applied. It does have gotcha's in that regard.
> > [...]
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing 

Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 April 2020 15:36:05 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Voltage drop?  @26AWG has 0.134 ohms per meter.It might matter if
> you are running 20 meters of cable.   As for connectors those
> "aviation plugs" are good quality and not expensive.   They come in
> 12mm and 16mm diameters (or more accurately with M12 and M16 threads) 
>   I've been using M16 for power and M12 size for signals so as to not
> cross them up.  They have threaded locking rings that can be
> opened/closed with no tools
>
I would not call them aviation quality when they don't have safety wire 
facilities to keep them from comeing unscrewed, and their thread fit 
tolerance is relatively poor. However its a much better connector for 
where it might get bumped and for handling a decent amount of current 
per pin. I've used them for years both for encoders and for motor 
connections. My fav cable for motors where 4 wire is sufficient is 
star-quad, the worlds best shielded microphone cable, shielding is 
around 120 db! 4 wires in a twist pattern that for mikes, balances out 
any noise, plus a mylar shield with a 68% tinned copper braid overlay to 
ground the mylar. Made by Susan Clarks japanese supplier, Clark Wire & 
Cable in Chicago sells it on this side of the pond, its ultra flexible, 
laying anywhere like well cooked spaghetti but while its made in 22 and 
26 ga, the 26 does heat a degree or so if driving a 4amp or more motor. 
Get the 22ga if she has it. She doesn't always have it as she sells 10x 
as much of the 26 ga stuff. We bought it in 1k ft spools, 26 ga for mike 
cable at the tv station. Longest lasting, quietest cable thats ever been 
made and sold.  And available in quite a few colors so you can trace it 
easier in a tray with 200 + other cables in it.  Good stuff IOW. She 
also carries a 75 ohm video coax thats just as well shielded and just as 
flexible. I had to replace several miles of West Penn's junk at the tv 
station over the 18 years I spent there, because of intercable signal 
leakage.

> On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 11:58 AM N  
wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 01:05:03 +0100
> >
> > andy pugh  wrote:
> > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:58, Todd Zuercher
> > > 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > I've liked the cables I've gotten from Igus.
> > > > https://www.igus.com/product/1074
> > >
> > > This looks good for a dedicated encoder cable:
> > > https://www.igus.com/product/1117
> >
> > Without doubt, it must be an excellent cable. Ordinary Ethercat is
> > good but maybe voltage drop will be a problem for power supply.
> >
> > > (and is available by the meter.)
> > >
> > > I think that Igus will also put the connectors on?
> >
> > Looked at this connector before, it is a good connector but
> > expensive. Are not sure about any standard encoder cables but D-sub
> > is readily available, really good and guess they are cheap.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> The docs are no help either, but there is a clue in the code:
>
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/motion/mot_priv.h#L57
>
>
> I would expect that this will always show the D number in G96 mode.
> (As you found)
>
> And this commit explains why it exists:
>
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/a1c66d4949f1b25bf05b5afe590ebfcf1f25c309
>


 Yes, the manuals are not that clear about it. I had to learn it the hard
way. I'm going to dig a little more in all the dev stuff because I really
like it, but I obviously need to gain a lot of knowledge to understand how
everything works.

Thank you guys for your help as usual!

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 15:28, andy pugh ()
escribió:

> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 18:00, Leonardo Marsaglia 
> wrote:
>
> *and it works perfectly. But that makes me question the naming on these
> > pins. Aren't all the CMD tagged pins supposed to be used to feed PWM,
> > Stepgens, etc?
> >
>
> The docs are no help either, but there is a clue in the code:
>
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/motion/mot_priv.h#L57
>
>
> I would expect that this will always show the D number in G96 mode.
> (As you found)
>
> And this commit explains why it exists:
>
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/a1c66d4949f1b25bf05b5afe590ebfcf1f25c309
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something I've never
> ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you are probably just
> sending too many steps/second.  I could be wrong, as its not impossible,
> but I'm thinking you may have miss-read the Chinglesh in the manual.
> But do check the polarity of the signal as it arrives at the vfd.  In
> that event, switching to a pwmgen, running in pdm mode, may be the fix
> you need.


Indeed it sounded strange to me too, and when we purchased the boards to
make the conversion we planned to drive the VFD with analog voltage like
usual but when I discovered that feature a few months ago I decided to give
it a try and save a 7i33 for later. It's working pretty well now and I
tuned it better today. It accepts frequencies from 0.5 khz to 32 khz. We
are peaking it at about 24000 khz but the problem I had was the step
lenght  was to low for the driver to "see" the pulses. Now I only need to
filter the encoder from the spindle to get rid of that noisy output wich is
not hurting anything but it would look better filtered.

On other thing, css is scaled from x=0, if its not 0 as touched off at
> the exact center of the workpiece, then css is going to be miss-applied.
> It does have gotcha's in that regard.


 Yes, I double checked that today and it was ok. My problem was the output
source of the commanded velocity for the spindle. I spent almost 3 hours
trying to figure out what was the problem and all it took to solve it was
to change a signal name in the hal file :(.

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 14:41, Gene Heskett ()
escribió:

> On Thursday 30 April 2020 12:36:00 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>
> > Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd velocity to
> > a step generator in velocity mode. Could this be the source of the
> > problem? Or does LCNC internally set the speed of the spindle based on
> > the X diameter?
> >
> I must say thats an unconventional mode to me. I know nothing about your
> Yaskawa, but as a CET, one thought keeps running thru my mind.  Most
> vfd's will do a decent job of averaging a digital command signal, giving
> about 50% speed for a signal thats high 50% of the time. We often set
> steppers up for a true=logic low, and feed the + line of the driver at 5
> volts, and the step signal to the corresponding - terminal at the driver
> input.
>
> primarily because our interface electronics can sink lots more current in
> the logic low state than they can source in the logic high state, its
> the nature of TTL circuitry and the capability ratio can be 10/1. So an
> output that can sink 24 mills is a much better opto driver than one that
> can only source 2.4 milliamps.  If you feed that "inverted" signal into
> most vfd's, they would interpret that 98% of the time logic high which
> you are sending it for a low speed command, the vfd will treat it as if
> its a high 98% of the time resulting in a high speed command actually
> being done.  You should be able to verify that with the halscope. Or
> most any scope with sufficient bandwidth to show the steps as a well
> squared wave.  If you are seeing a triangular wave, the scope isn't fast
> enough.
>
> However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something I've never
> ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you are probably just
> sending too many steps/second.  I could be wrong, as its not impossible,
> but I'm thinking you may have miss-read the Chinglesh in the manual.
> But do check the polarity of the signal as it arrives at the vfd.  In
> that event, switching to a pwmgen, running in pdm mode, may be the fix
> you need.
>
> On other thing, css is scaled from x=0, if its not 0 as touched off at
> the exact center of the workpiece, then css is going to be miss-applied.
> It does have gotcha's in that regard.
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?

[Chris Albertson]

Voltage drop?  @26AWG has 0.134 ohms per meter.It might matter if you
are running 20 meters of cable.   As for connectors those "aviation plugs"
are good quality and not expensive.   They come in 12mm and 16mm diameters
(or more accurately with M12 and M16 threads)I've been using M16 for
power and M12 size for signals so as to not cross them up.  They have
threaded locking rings that can be opened/closed with no tools

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 11:58 AM N  wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 01:05:03 +0100
> andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:58, Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've liked the cables I've gotten from Igus.
> > > https://www.igus.com/product/1074
> >
> > This looks good for a dedicated encoder cable:
> > https://www.igus.com/product/1117
>
> Without doubt, it must be an excellent cable. Ordinary Ethercat is good
> but maybe voltage drop will be a problem for power supply.
>
> > (and is available by the meter.)
> >
> > I think that Igus will also put the connectors on?
>
> Looked at this connector before, it is a good connector but expensive. Are
> not sure about any standard encoder cables but D-sub is readily available,
> really good and guess they are cheap.
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?

[N]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 01:05:03 +0100
andy pugh  wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:58, Todd Zuercher  wrote:
> >
> > I've liked the cables I've gotten from Igus.
> > https://www.igus.com/product/1074
> 
> This looks good for a dedicated encoder cable:
> https://www.igus.com/product/1117

Without doubt, it must be an excellent cable. Ordinary Ethercat is good but 
maybe voltage drop will be a problem for power supply.

> (and is available by the meter.)
> 
> I think that Igus will also put the connectors on?

Looked at this connector before, it is a good connector but expensive. Are not 
sure about any standard encoder cables but D-sub is readily available, really 
good and guess they are cheap.


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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 18:00, Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

*and it works perfectly. But that makes me question the naming on these
> pins. Aren't all the CMD tagged pins supposed to be used to feed PWM,
> Stepgens, etc?
>

The docs are no help either, but there is a clue in the code:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/motion/mot_priv.h#L57


I would expect that this will always show the D number in G96 mode.
(As you found)

And this commit explains why it exists:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/a1c66d4949f1b25bf05b5afe590ebfcf1f25c309

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 April 2020 12:36:00 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

> Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd velocity to
> a step generator in velocity mode. Could this be the source of the
> problem? Or does LCNC internally set the speed of the spindle based on
> the X diameter?
>
I must say thats an unconventional mode to me. I know nothing about your 
Yaskawa, but as a CET, one thought keeps running thru my mind.  Most 
vfd's will do a decent job of averaging a digital command signal, giving 
about 50% speed for a signal thats high 50% of the time. We often set 
steppers up for a true=logic low, and feed the + line of the driver at 5 
volts, and the step signal to the corresponding - terminal at the driver 
input.

primarily because our interface electronics can sink lots more current in 
the logic low state than they can source in the logic high state, its 
the nature of TTL circuitry and the capability ratio can be 10/1. So an 
output that can sink 24 mills is a much better opto driver than one that 
can only source 2.4 milliamps.  If you feed that "inverted" signal into 
most vfd's, they would interpret that 98% of the time logic high which 
you are sending it for a low speed command, the vfd will treat it as if 
its a high 98% of the time resulting in a high speed command actually 
being done.  You should be able to verify that with the halscope. Or 
most any scope with sufficient bandwidth to show the steps as a well 
squared wave.  If you are seeing a triangular wave, the scope isn't fast 
enough.

However if that Yaskawa actually is counting steps, something I've never 
ever seen one of the clones I am using do, then you are probably just 
sending too many steps/second.  I could be wrong, as its not impossible, 
but I'm thinking you may have miss-read the Chinglesh in the manual.  
But do check the polarity of the signal as it arrives at the vfd.  In 
that event, switching to a pwmgen, running in pdm mode, may be the fix 
you need.

On other thing, css is scaled from x=0, if its not 0 as touched off at 
the exact center of the workpiece, then css is going to be miss-applied.  
It does have gotcha's in that regard.
[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Solved!

I was using *spindle.M.speed−cmd−rps *to drive my stepgen and VFD and this
pin sets to the maximum speed when in G96. I'm now using
*spindle.M.speed−out−rps
*and it works perfectly. But that makes me question the naming on these
pins. Aren't all the CMD tagged pins supposed to be used to feed PWM,
Stepgens, etc?

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 13:36, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd velocity to a
> step generator in velocity mode. Could this be the source of the problem?
> Or does LCNC internally set the speed of the spindle based on the X
> diameter?
>
> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:57, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>
>> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?
>>
>>
>>  Here's a picture https://imgur.com/uFjq7s0 (doesn't read to well but I
>> think it's fine to understand the numbers) that may answer this. I'm
>> getting negative values on those pins depending on my offsets but from what
>> I've could find about G96 it always uses the active offset value for the X
>> axis.
>>
>> What I would like to know is. Does G96 only work when lathe mode is on?
>> Does it automatically recognise the X axis? Because I don't know if I have
>> some problems with the axis declarations on the INI and HAL files but I'm
>> just guessing.
>>
>> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:52, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
>> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>>
>>> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm attaching a picture (doesn't read to well but I think it's fine to
>>> understand the numbers) that may answer this. I'm getting negative values
>>> on those pins depending on my offsets but from what I've could find about
>>> G96 it always uses the active offset value for the X axis.
>>>
>>> What I would like to know is. Does G96 only work when lathe mode is on?
>>> Does it automatically recognise the X axis? Because I don't know if I have
>>> some problems with the axis declarations on the INI and HAL files but I'm
>>> just guessing.
>>>
>>>
>>> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:30, andy pugh ()
>>> escribió:
>>>
 On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 15:52, Leonardo Marsaglia >>> >
 wrote:

 Working in G54 with the tool selected and G43 I get positive diameter.
 The
 > only negative values are in machine coordinates but G96 it's not
 supossed
 > to use that value right?


 No. And despite what the docs say I don't think G96 uses
 spindle.M.speed in
 either. That is only used for feed-per-rev (and even then using position
 would make more sense, unless you had to use a spindle tachometer)

 Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?

 --
 atp
 "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
 for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
 — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

>>>

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 17:38, Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

> Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd velocity to a
> step generator in velocity mode. Could this be the source of the problem?


No.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 16:59, Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

>
> What I would like to know is. Does G96 only work when lathe mode is on?
>

Possibly, though I would be surprised as LATHE is an INI entry in the
[DISPLAY] section.


> Does it automatically recognise the X axis? Because I don't know if I have
> some problems with the axis declarations on the INI and HAL files but I'm
> just guessing.
>

I am pretty sure that it uses G-code X rather than a joint. (which is
something of a  limitation, maybe we should have G96.1 to use Y, G96.6 to
use U)

https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/5cb4a18e0068fe430a2f2acbf219530f68c30c32/src/emc/motion/control.c#L1839-L1881

Is where the HAL pins are set.

xoffset looks important:
Set here:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/5cb4a18e0068fe430a2f2acbf219530f68c30c32/src/emc/motion/command.c#L1787
(Looks wierd, I am suspecting a misused variable)
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/5cb4a18e0068fe430a2f2acbf219530f68c30c32/src/emc/task/taskintf.cc#L1866
Yes, it appears so.
And here i where it is calculated:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/5cb4a18e0068fe430a2f2acbf219530f68c30c32/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc#L1882-L1884

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Just to be super clear. I'm sending the spindle speed cmd velocity to a
step generator in velocity mode. Could this be the source of the problem?
Or does LCNC internally set the speed of the spindle based on the X
diameter?

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:57, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?
>
>
>  Here's a picture https://imgur.com/uFjq7s0 (doesn't read to well but I
> think it's fine to understand the numbers) that may answer this. I'm
> getting negative values on those pins depending on my offsets but from what
> I've could find about G96 it always uses the active offset value for the X
> axis.
>
> What I would like to know is. Does G96 only work when lathe mode is on?
> Does it automatically recognise the X axis? Because I don't know if I have
> some problems with the axis declarations on the INI and HAL files but I'm
> just guessing.
>
> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:52, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>
>> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?
>>
>>
>> I'm attaching a picture (doesn't read to well but I think it's fine to
>> understand the numbers) that may answer this. I'm getting negative values
>> on those pins depending on my offsets but from what I've could find about
>> G96 it always uses the active offset value for the X axis.
>>
>> What I would like to know is. Does G96 only work when lathe mode is on?
>> Does it automatically recognise the X axis? Because I don't know if I have
>> some problems with the axis declarations on the INI and HAL files but I'm
>> just guessing.
>>
>>
>> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:30, andy pugh ()
>> escribió:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 15:52, Leonardo Marsaglia 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Working in G54 with the tool selected and G43 I get positive diameter.
>>> The
>>> > only negative values are in machine coordinates but G96 it's not
>>> supossed
>>> > to use that value right?
>>>
>>>
>>> No. And despite what the docs say I don't think G96 uses spindle.M.speed
>>> in
>>> either. That is only used for feed-per-rev (and even then using position
>>> would make more sense, unless you had to use a spindle tachometer)
>>>
>>> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?
>>>
>>> --
>>> atp
>>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
>>> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
>>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>

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Re: [Emc-users] A simple LinuxCNC system

[Chris Albertson]

>  With the pitch of the
> ballscrew at 3mm just how does one get the fine step size back .


With a timing belt reduction system.  Timing belts have zero-backlash and
can increase torque and precision.   They also can absorb tiny amounts of
misaignment between the motor and the lead screw like a flexible shaft
coupler.
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?


 Here's a picture https://imgur.com/uFjq7s0 (doesn't read to well but I
think it's fine to understand the numbers) that may answer this. I'm
getting negative values on those pins depending on my offsets but from what
I've could find about G96 it always uses the active offset value for the X
axis.

What I would like to know is. Does G96 only work when lathe mode is on?
Does it automatically recognise the X axis? Because I don't know if I have
some problems with the axis declarations on the INI and HAL files but I'm
just guessing.

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:52, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?
>
>
> I'm attaching a picture (doesn't read to well but I think it's fine to
> understand the numbers) that may answer this. I'm getting negative values
> on those pins depending on my offsets but from what I've could find about
> G96 it always uses the active offset value for the X axis.
>
> What I would like to know is. Does G96 only work when lathe mode is on?
> Does it automatically recognise the X axis? Because I don't know if I have
> some problems with the axis declarations on the INI and HAL files but I'm
> just guessing.
>
>
> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:30, andy pugh ()
> escribió:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 15:52, Leonardo Marsaglia 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Working in G54 with the tool selected and G43 I get positive diameter. The
>> > only negative values are in machine coordinates but G96 it's not
>> supossed
>> > to use that value right?
>>
>>
>> No. And despite what the docs say I don't think G96 uses spindle.M.speed
>> in
>> either. That is only used for feed-per-rev (and even then using position
>> would make more sense, unless you had to use a spindle tachometer)
>>
>> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
>> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Sam Sokolik]

The fact that the spindle override slider isn't working as expected - makes
me think of some sort of basic configuration error..

sam

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 10:30 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 15:52, Leonardo Marsaglia 
> wrote:
>
> Working in G54 with the tool selected and G43 I get positive diameter. The
> > only negative values are in machine coordinates but G96 it's not supossed
> > to use that value right?
>
>
> No. And despite what the docs say I don't think G96 uses spindle.M.speed in
> either. That is only used for feed-per-rev (and even then using position
> would make more sense, unless you had to use a spindle tachometer)
>
> Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 15:52, Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

Working in G54 with the tool selected and G43 I get positive diameter. The
> only negative values are in machine coordinates but G96 it's not supossed
> to use that value right?


No. And despite what the docs say I don't think G96 uses spindle.M.speed in
either. That is only used for feed-per-rev (and even then using position
would make more sense, unless you had to use a spindle tachometer)

Is the X axis (hal pin) position correct and in the machine base units?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

If I set the spindle to G97 to work in RPM mode the
spindle.0.speed.cmd-rps works as expected.

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:26, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> I'm running the Axis simulated lathe and I encounter the same problem but
> take a look at this video. The spindle.0.speed.cmd-rps  is cliped to the
> max speed here too. But the pyVCP is showing the spindle increase in RPM as
> the diameter gets smaller. I'm using G96 and jogging the X axis by hand by
> the way, but it should be the same.
>
> https://youtu.be/sEokma-qGhc
>
> It sounds like a bug to me but I want to be sure before reinstalling the
> whole thing.
>
> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:22, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>
>> What does the program actually say for the SxxxM3 line? As Andy asked,
>>> Is the X positive?
>>>
>>
>> Hello Ed,
>>
>> One of the lines for example is G96 D600 S40 M4. The X is always
>> positive.
>>
>> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:19, Ed () escribió:
>>
>>> On 4/30/20 9:20 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>>> > After some testing this is what happens:
>>> >
>>> > G96 is reading the speed well because the feed appears noisy on
>>> screen. And
>>> > also If I set different max RPMs I get different feeds. The problem
>>> here is
>>> > that, whatever I do, I'm always clipping to max rpm. I tried to set
>>> the S
>>> > value really low like 0.5 and I get max rpm too.
>>> >
>>> > Could this be a bug? Remember that the spindle works great at RPM mode.
>>>
>>> G96SxxxDyyy sets initially to xxx MPM or FPM with yyy max spindle speed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sxxx M3 sets the speed while cutting.
>>>
>>>
>>> What does the program actually say for the SxxxM3 line? As Andy asked,
>>> Is the X positive?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

I'm running the Axis simulated lathe and I encounter the same problem but
take a look at this video. The spindle.0.speed.cmd-rps  is cliped to the
max speed here too. But the pyVCP is showing the spindle increase in RPM as
the diameter gets smaller. I'm using G96 and jogging the X axis by hand by
the way, but it should be the same.

https://youtu.be/sEokma-qGhc

It sounds like a bug to me but I want to be sure before reinstalling the
whole thing.

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:22, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> What does the program actually say for the SxxxM3 line? As Andy asked,
>> Is the X positive?
>>
>
> Hello Ed,
>
> One of the lines for example is G96 D600 S40 M4. The X is always positive.
>
> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:19, Ed () escribió:
>
>> On 4/30/20 9:20 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>> > After some testing this is what happens:
>> >
>> > G96 is reading the speed well because the feed appears noisy on screen.
>> And
>> > also If I set different max RPMs I get different feeds. The problem
>> here is
>> > that, whatever I do, I'm always clipping to max rpm. I tried to set the
>> S
>> > value really low like 0.5 and I get max rpm too.
>> >
>> > Could this be a bug? Remember that the spindle works great at RPM mode.
>>
>> G96SxxxDyyy sets initially to xxx MPM or FPM with yyy max spindle speed.
>>
>>
>> Sxxx M3 sets the speed while cutting.
>>
>>
>> What does the program actually say for the SxxxM3 line? As Andy asked,
>> Is the X positive?
>>
>>
>> Ed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> What does the program actually say for the SxxxM3 line? As Andy asked,
> Is the X positive?
>

Hello Ed,

One of the lines for example is G96 D600 S40 M4. The X is always positive.

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 12:19, Ed () escribió:

> On 4/30/20 9:20 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > After some testing this is what happens:
> >
> > G96 is reading the speed well because the feed appears noisy on screen.
> And
> > also If I set different max RPMs I get different feeds. The problem here
> is
> > that, whatever I do, I'm always clipping to max rpm. I tried to set the S
> > value really low like 0.5 and I get max rpm too.
> >
> > Could this be a bug? Remember that the spindle works great at RPM mode.
>
> G96SxxxDyyy sets initially to xxx MPM or FPM with yyy max spindle speed.
>
>
> Sxxx M3 sets the speed while cutting.
>
>
> What does the program actually say for the SxxxM3 line? As Andy asked,
> Is the X positive?
>
>
> Ed.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Ed]

On 4/30/20 9:20 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

After some testing this is what happens:

G96 is reading the speed well because the feed appears noisy on screen. And
also If I set different max RPMs I get different feeds. The problem here is
that, whatever I do, I'm always clipping to max rpm. I tried to set the S
value really low like 0.5 and I get max rpm too.

Could this be a bug? Remember that the spindle works great at RPM mode.


G96SxxxDyyy sets initially to xxx MPM or FPM with yyy max spindle speed.


Sxxx M3 sets the speed while cutting.


What does the program actually say for the SxxxM3 line? As Andy asked, 
Is the X positive?



Ed.




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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> Is the X axis position accurate (and positive?)


Hello Andy,

Working in G54 with the tool selected and G43 I get positive diameter. The
only negative values are in machine coordinates but G96 it's not supossed
to use that value right?

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 11:38, andy pugh ()
escribió:

> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 15:23, Leonardo Marsaglia 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > G96 is reading the speed well because the feed appears noisy on screen.
> And
> > also If I set different max RPMs I get different feeds. The problem here
> is
> > that, whatever I do, I'm always clipping to max rpm.
>
>
> Is the X axis position accurate (and positive?)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 15:23, Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

>
> G96 is reading the speed well because the feed appears noisy on screen. And
> also If I set different max RPMs I get different feeds. The problem here is
> that, whatever I do, I'm always clipping to max rpm.


Is the X axis position accurate (and positive?)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

After some testing this is what happens:

G96 is reading the speed well because the feed appears noisy on screen. And
also If I set different max RPMs I get different feeds. The problem here is
that, whatever I do, I'm always clipping to max rpm. I tried to set the S
value really low like 0.5 and I get max rpm too.

Could this be a bug? Remember that the spindle works great at RPM mode.

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 a las 10:08, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> I forgot to tell you that I'm driving the spindle open loop yet. But again
> I don't think that could be the problem.
>
> El jue., 30 abr. 2020 10:03, Leonardo Marsaglia 
> escribió:
>
>> Well I just corrected my scale and activate the encoder filter and now
>> I'm pretty much spinning the spindle at the rpms it's asked to.
>>
>> The problem is still my g96 code. When the program tries that command
>> with a 700 rpm limit, the lathe starts to spin to that maximum speed no
>> matter the position of the x axis.
>>
>> I don't have spindle at speed connected but I don't know if that can be
>> the problem.
>>
>> I really don't know what's going on. Please let me know of I'm missing
>> something.
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Leonardo Marsaglia
>>
>> El mié., 29 abr. 2020 22:31, Leonardo Marsaglia 
>> escribió:
>>
>>> Hello Gene,
>>>
>>> I'm using a step generator from the 7i52 to feed the pulse command input
>>> on the Yaskawa v1000. So I have to play with the scale factor to modify the
>>> frequency. The driver accepts a maximum frequency of 32 khz and it has a
>>> max freq setting inside that range to set up the maximum velocity. I'll try
>>> to play with that tomorrow.
>>>
>>> What I don't understand is why I don't have a ramping velocity when
>>> using G96 for grooving for example. May be I'm clipping onto max rpm when I
>>> set up the cam software? Because I'm limiting the RPMs for the grooves to
>>> 700 RPM max no matter the surface speed. Needless to say, I'm still getting
>>> myself used to make my programs with CAM software.
>>>
>>> But there's still the feed override problem on axis, wich is not a big
>>> concern because I'm not planning to override the spindle from that slider,
>>> but It worries me that it's not working like it should be.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El mié., 29 abr. 2020 a las 21:10, Gene Heskett ()
>>> escribió:
>>>
 On Wednesday 29 April 2020 19:02:17 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

 > It's me again,
 >
 > We managed to get the spindle VFD working with pulse input command.
 > The problem is, I can't get to work the G96 code or the feed override
 > on axis. I'm able to set different speeds via MDI and it responds well
 > but that's all. The feed override slider is behaving like a on/off
 > switch turning off the spindle when it reaches to zero. Also, If I
 > increase the speed using the buttons on manual mode on axis the RPMs
 > jump in a very staggered way. In MDI this doesn't happen.
 >
 > Checking the *spindle.M.speed−in* it seems to receive the RPS from the
 > encoder module. The only thing that's not looking good is how noisy
 > the signal is. I didn't activate the encoder filter but I can try that
 > tomorrow, although I don't think that's what's avoiding G96 to work.
 >
 > I tried the same g-code on axis sim lathe and it works ok. Any ideas?
 > I suspect it's the same thing that's causing both problems but I don't
 > know where to look. Please let me know what you think.
 >
 > Thank you as always!

 If the pwmgen you are using has a "PDM" mode, try that along with
 reducing the frequency. A kilohertz s/b plenty.  The vfd will average
 it
 nicely, and the lower frequency will give more, different speeds.  In
 PDM mode and low speeds it will skip pulses, or should.
 >
 > ___
 > Emc-users mailing list
 > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


 Cheers, Gene Heskett
 --
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
 respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
 Genes Web page 


 ___
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 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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>>>

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

I forgot to tell you that I'm driving the spindle open loop yet. But again
I don't think that could be the problem.

El jue., 30 abr. 2020 10:03, Leonardo Marsaglia 
escribió:

> Well I just corrected my scale and activate the encoder filter and now I'm
> pretty much spinning the spindle at the rpms it's asked to.
>
> The problem is still my g96 code. When the program tries that command with
> a 700 rpm limit, the lathe starts to spin to that maximum speed no matter
> the position of the x axis.
>
> I don't have spindle at speed connected but I don't know if that can be
> the problem.
>
> I really don't know what's going on. Please let me know of I'm missing
> something.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Leonardo Marsaglia
>
> El mié., 29 abr. 2020 22:31, Leonardo Marsaglia 
> escribió:
>
>> Hello Gene,
>>
>> I'm using a step generator from the 7i52 to feed the pulse command input
>> on the Yaskawa v1000. So I have to play with the scale factor to modify the
>> frequency. The driver accepts a maximum frequency of 32 khz and it has a
>> max freq setting inside that range to set up the maximum velocity. I'll try
>> to play with that tomorrow.
>>
>> What I don't understand is why I don't have a ramping velocity when using
>> G96 for grooving for example. May be I'm clipping onto max rpm when I set
>> up the cam software? Because I'm limiting the RPMs for the grooves to 700
>> RPM max no matter the surface speed. Needless to say, I'm still getting
>> myself used to make my programs with CAM software.
>>
>> But there's still the feed override problem on axis, wich is not a big
>> concern because I'm not planning to override the spindle from that slider,
>> but It worries me that it's not working like it should be.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> El mié., 29 abr. 2020 a las 21:10, Gene Heskett ()
>> escribió:
>>
>>> On Wednesday 29 April 2020 19:02:17 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>>>
>>> > It's me again,
>>> >
>>> > We managed to get the spindle VFD working with pulse input command.
>>> > The problem is, I can't get to work the G96 code or the feed override
>>> > on axis. I'm able to set different speeds via MDI and it responds well
>>> > but that's all. The feed override slider is behaving like a on/off
>>> > switch turning off the spindle when it reaches to zero. Also, If I
>>> > increase the speed using the buttons on manual mode on axis the RPMs
>>> > jump in a very staggered way. In MDI this doesn't happen.
>>> >
>>> > Checking the *spindle.M.speed−in* it seems to receive the RPS from the
>>> > encoder module. The only thing that's not looking good is how noisy
>>> > the signal is. I didn't activate the encoder filter but I can try that
>>> > tomorrow, although I don't think that's what's avoiding G96 to work.
>>> >
>>> > I tried the same g-code on axis sim lathe and it works ok. Any ideas?
>>> > I suspect it's the same thing that's causing both problems but I don't
>>> > know where to look. Please let me know what you think.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you as always!
>>>
>>> If the pwmgen you are using has a "PDM" mode, try that along with
>>> reducing the frequency. A kilohertz s/b plenty.  The vfd will average it
>>> nicely, and the lower frequency will give more, different speeds.  In
>>> PDM mode and low speeds it will skip pulses, or should.
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Emc-users mailing list
>>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>> --
>>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>>> Genes Web page 
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>

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Re: [Emc-users] G96 and spindle override on axis not working

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Well I just corrected my scale and activate the encoder filter and now I'm
pretty much spinning the spindle at the rpms it's asked to.

The problem is still my g96 code. When the program tries that command with
a 700 rpm limit, the lathe starts to spin to that maximum speed no matter
the position of the x axis.

I don't have spindle at speed connected but I don't know if that can be the
problem.

I really don't know what's going on. Please let me know of I'm missing
something.

Thank you!

Leonardo Marsaglia

El mié., 29 abr. 2020 22:31, Leonardo Marsaglia 
escribió:

> Hello Gene,
>
> I'm using a step generator from the 7i52 to feed the pulse command input
> on the Yaskawa v1000. So I have to play with the scale factor to modify the
> frequency. The driver accepts a maximum frequency of 32 khz and it has a
> max freq setting inside that range to set up the maximum velocity. I'll try
> to play with that tomorrow.
>
> What I don't understand is why I don't have a ramping velocity when using
> G96 for grooving for example. May be I'm clipping onto max rpm when I set
> up the cam software? Because I'm limiting the RPMs for the grooves to 700
> RPM max no matter the surface speed. Needless to say, I'm still getting
> myself used to make my programs with CAM software.
>
> But there's still the feed override problem on axis, wich is not a big
> concern because I'm not planning to override the spindle from that slider,
> but It worries me that it's not working like it should be.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> El mié., 29 abr. 2020 a las 21:10, Gene Heskett ()
> escribió:
>
>> On Wednesday 29 April 2020 19:02:17 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>>
>> > It's me again,
>> >
>> > We managed to get the spindle VFD working with pulse input command.
>> > The problem is, I can't get to work the G96 code or the feed override
>> > on axis. I'm able to set different speeds via MDI and it responds well
>> > but that's all. The feed override slider is behaving like a on/off
>> > switch turning off the spindle when it reaches to zero. Also, If I
>> > increase the speed using the buttons on manual mode on axis the RPMs
>> > jump in a very staggered way. In MDI this doesn't happen.
>> >
>> > Checking the *spindle.M.speed−in* it seems to receive the RPS from the
>> > encoder module. The only thing that's not looking good is how noisy
>> > the signal is. I didn't activate the encoder filter but I can try that
>> > tomorrow, although I don't think that's what's avoiding G96 to work.
>> >
>> > I tried the same g-code on axis sim lathe and it works ok. Any ideas?
>> > I suspect it's the same thing that's causing both problems but I don't
>> > know where to look. Please let me know what you think.
>> >
>> > Thank you as always!
>>
>> If the pwmgen you are using has a "PDM" mode, try that along with
>> reducing the frequency. A kilohertz s/b plenty.  The vfd will average it
>> nicely, and the lower frequency will give more, different speeds.  In
>> PDM mode and low speeds it will skip pulses, or should.
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page 
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting ARM SOC for Machine Control

[Lester Caine]

On 30/04/2020 05:45, Przemek Klosowski wrote:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 5:05 AM Lester Caine  wrote:


For the observant ... what is wrong with the front and back image of the
BPI-F2S ...

OK I give up---what's  wrong? I assume you're talking about

http://wiki.banana-pi.org/images/a/a6/850x371xBanana_PI_BPI-F2S_6.JPG.pagespeed.ic.6JAnstxchO.webp


'FPGA board interface' ... It looks like there are missing through hole 
connections top and bottom, but actually this is the only way to 
identify which way up to fit the FPGA board. It's only silk screen but 
this is not immediately obvious? It looked like there was a JTAG port, 
but there isn't ...


If you are using the FPGA board, then the Pi GPIO connector is 
unavailable, but if the processor chip was available on a proper Pi 
footprint board it would be attractive. The problem is that 'Banana' 
make a lot of boards which are not 'Pi' compatible but still use the 
'Banana Pi' branding :(


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.uk
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk


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Re: [Emc-users] A simple LinuxCNC system

[Lester Caine]

On 29/04/2020 17:48, John Dammeyer wrote:

Yes. Up until recently micro-stepper drives ran 10:1 but now they can do 256:1 
although the jury is out on whether anything past 10:1 is useful.  But that's a 
different discussion.


The drivers I use have always had 128:1 but I've never found anything 
over 8:1 of use if one is continually switching direction. As you say it 
is a different discussion, but having now got a ballscrew build of the 
taig mill in the workshop it's one I need to return to. A 20tpi 
leadscrew with 4:1 stepping gives fairly reliable 1/16thou steps while 
at 8:1 one you can measure the spread of the step sizes. That said, both 
give a visible improvement to surface finish when working on jewellery 
over the original half stepping controller. With the pitch of the 
ballscrew at 3mm just how does one get the fine step size back ... does 
the much lower backlash provide enough gain, given that it can be 
catered for and managed on the 20tpi leadscrew. Time to look at the 
0.9deg motors? They are pushing up to the power that the the first taig 
machines were shipped with ...


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.uk
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk


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