Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
All metering by your utility is Watt Hours, Not Volt-Amperes. However, that is true only for residential service, and commercial metering measures and triggers a premium rate in the event of exceeding a certain Power Factor, and or Peak Demand consumption rate during the billing interval (the rate charged is billed at the premium rate for all the power consumed for the month. Even though the peak demand was only for a few minutes during the entire month.) *Dennis Lee Miles * *Director **E.V.T.I. Inc.* *E-Mail:* *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913* Dade City, Florida 33523 USA On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > > I think a better solution would be to make a charger > > that *compensates* for the power factor of the home > > ...Such a charger won't just have a "do no harm" effect; > > it will *improve* the power factor of the house!-- > > Remind me We dont pay for bad power factor do we? Do our electric meters > read Real Watts or Volt-Amps? I think bad power factor only impacts the > utility (and of course all of us) by wasting energy in distribution, but > not on our side of the meter? > > Bob > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/0786fe9e/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/0b58ecef/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
> I think a better solution would be to make a charger > that *compensates* for the power factor of the home > ...Such a charger won't just have a "do no harm" effect; > it will *improve* the power factor of the house!-- Remind me We dont pay for bad power factor do we? Do our electric meters read Real Watts or Volt-Amps? I think bad power factor only impacts the utility (and of course all of us) by wasting energy in distribution, but not on our side of the meter? Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/0786fe9e/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
Peri Hartman via EV wrote: You wouldn't even need a central instruction. It could be the same V2G electronics, but only one way. That is, when there's a dip in voltage charging decreases. The bigger the dip, the more the charge shuts down. I suppose it could also react to spikes and absorb extra current for a moment, too. But it wouldn't put anything back into the grid. Frankly, I think the quest for "perfect power factor 1.0" chargers is a waste of time and money (in America, at least). *Nothing else* in our homes is power factor corrected. No one is trying to impose extra cost and mandate 1.0 PF for anything else. Everyone would holler! I think a better solution would be to make a charger that *compensates* for the power factor of the home as a whole. That is, since most home devices have a lagging power factor (motors, light dimmers), and draw excessive current at the peak (anything with a switchmode power supply), then make the charger has a leading power factor and draw its peak current *away* from the peak. This can be as simple as a "bad boy" charger with series capacitors instead of the usual resistive or inductive current limiter. Such a charger won't just have a "do no harm" effect; it will *improve* the power factor of the house! -- All children are born as engineers. Watch them at play. They're not just playing; they're building and learning. They are engineering. Then we get them in school and spend years squashing it out of them. -- Geoffrey Orsak, Southern Methodist University dean of engineering -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVent: Humboldt EVs @Sustainable Living Expo Sat 6/7 10a-5p Arcata, CA
EV Ride&Drive Event @Redwood Acres Racetrack Mon 6/9 1-5p Eureka, CA
http://www.northcoastjournal.com/AEBlog/archives/2014/06/06/easy-being-green
Easy Being Green
By Dev Richards Jun 6, 2014
There's no shortage of green metaphors in Humboldt County. There's the easy
go-to of our "green economy," our pride in the greenery of our gigantic
redwoods forests and then there's our commitment to promoting an
eco-friendly, green lifestyle. Get started on that last one this weekend.
The Sustainable Living Expo (free) is Plan it Green's contribution to
boosting Humboldt's eco-friendly reputation. From 10 a.m. until 5 p.m. on
Saturday, June 7, the Arcata Community Center will be bursting with all
things sustainable. This year's theme is "Building Green Communities and
Wheels of Change," so many of the demonstrations and workshops will be
geared toward environmentally friendly construction and vehicles.
The expo highlights local, green businesses, showcases the newest in
electric vehicle technology, and shows you how to reduce your personal
environmental impact.
Don't miss the special reception with Humboldt Made at 4 p.m. (snacks,
people).
Whether you love the planet or you just love expos, it's not a bad way to
spend a Saturday. We live in a beautiful place, folks; let's learn how to
keep it that way.
[© 2014 The North Coast Journal Weekly]
...
https://www.facebook.com/events/1443710879205583/
8th Annual Sustainable Living Expo
...
http://yournec.org/content/sustainable-living-skills-fair-and-sustainable-living-expo
" ... included will be the Wheels of Change Autorama , showing off electric
and alternate fuel vehicles, hybrids and energy efficient vehicles. The
Humboldt Electric Vehicle Association will display their electric vehicles
and other “vehicles of the future” for event participants to check out."
...
http://www.heva.org
Humboldt Electric Vehicle Association
...
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/locator/stations/results?utf8=%E2%9C%93&location=Arcata+%2C+CA&filtered=true&fuel=ELEC&owner=all&payment=all&ev_level2=true&ev_dc_fast=true&radius=true&radius_miles=50
Nearby public EVSE
http://www.redwoodenergy.org/events
Electric Vehicle Ride and Drive Event
Made in Humboldt Fair
Redwood Acres Racetrack
June 19th 1pm to 5pm
The Redwood Coast Energy Authority will be out on the race track during The
Best of Humboldt Fair at Redwood Acres with Electric Vehicles for you to
Ride and Drive. RCEA staff and Electric Vehicle dealers will be on hand to
answer all of your EV questions.
[© redwoodenergy.org]
...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Redwood-Acres-Fairgrounds/214498858661303
Redwood Acres Fairgrounds
http://www.redwoodacres.com/content/best-humboldt-fair
...
http://www.plugshare.com/?location=16719
EVSE @Humboldt Fair Grounds
For all EVLN posts use:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVent-Humboldt-EVs-Sustainable-Living-Expo-Sat-6-7-10a-5p-Arcata-CA-tp4669868.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
You wouldn't even need a central instruction. It could be the same V2G electronics, but only one way. That is, when there's a dip in voltage charging decreases. The bigger the dip, the more the charge shuts down. I suppose it could also react to spikes and absorb extra current for a moment, too. But it wouldn't put anything back into the grid. Peri -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via EV Sent: 06 June, 2014 12:27 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical If you are concerned about your EV somehow supplying unwanted current, burning up wires, juicing an electrician, etc. one could think of several ways to electronically sense if the grid had gone dark, or some circuit breaker in the chain had tripped. I agree that if the GFCI didn't trip when drawing current (like when normally charging,) then it certainly won't trip when supplying current. Not an issue. A lone 20 amp 120 volt circuit doesn't matter for frequency stabilization, but large numbers of 20 amp 120 volt circuits would. If V2G were a standard feature in EVs, and a large number of EVs were plugged in, then it would make a big difference. However, simply listening for a central instruction from the local utility to "pause charging" for a few minutes would be _much_ cheaper to implement and would be nearly as effective. The local utility issues such signals to "saver switch" type devices here in Colorado: http://www.xcelenergy.com/Save_Money_&_Energy/Rebates/Saver%27s_Switch_for_R esidences_-_CO?stateSelected=true You can put your EV charger on a "saver switch" that is controlled by the utility. Simple. Bill Dube' At 12:32 PM 6/6/2014, you wrote: >GFCI has no influence on backfeeding, except when a ground fault >triggers it and it disconnects. >I agree that L1 power is sufficient for charging EVs most of the time >(I am 99.9% L1 charge user) >My only concern is if the grid support can be delivered through L1, >in other words - can an EV give a meaningful support to the grid if it >is limited to 1.5kW? >The other concern is that most L1 outlets are shared (I mean: more >outlets on the same circuit breaker) whereas a backfeeding generator >preferably is on its own breaker to avoid that you can draw power power >from the *other* outlets than that the breaker is protecting - there is >a small risk of burning up the wires without the breaker triggering if >the backfeeder if giving a steady stream of power (most notably this >occurs with solar, that is why an inverter is typically always on a >separate circuit with no other loads connected to the same circuit). >Since I have no clue about the typical power levels involved with grid >stabilization, I leave my first concern unanswered - hopefully someone >else can contrtribute meaningfully to that one. > >Cor van de Water >Chief Scientist >Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com >Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info >Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
If you are concerned about your EV somehow supplying unwanted current, burning up wires, juicing an electrician, etc. one could think of several ways to electronically sense if the grid had gone dark, or some circuit breaker in the chain had tripped. I agree that if the GFCI didn't trip when drawing current (like when normally charging,) then it certainly won't trip when supplying current. Not an issue. A lone 20 amp 120 volt circuit doesn't matter for frequency stabilization, but large numbers of 20 amp 120 volt circuits would. If V2G were a standard feature in EVs, and a large number of EVs were plugged in, then it would make a big difference. However, simply listening for a central instruction from the local utility to "pause charging" for a few minutes would be _much_ cheaper to implement and would be nearly as effective. The local utility issues such signals to "saver switch" type devices here in Colorado: http://www.xcelenergy.com/Save_Money_&_Energy/Rebates/Saver%27s_Switch_for_Residences_-_CO?stateSelected=true You can put your EV charger on a "saver switch" that is controlled by the utility. Simple. Bill Dube' At 12:32 PM 6/6/2014, you wrote: GFCI has no influence on backfeeding, except when a ground fault triggers it and it disconnects. I agree that L1 power is sufficient for charging EVs most of the time (I am 99.9% L1 charge user) My only concern is if the grid support can be delivered through L1, in other words - can an EV give a meaningful support to the grid if it is limited to 1.5kW? The other concern is that most L1 outlets are shared (I mean: more outlets on the same circuit breaker) whereas a backfeeding generator preferably is on its own breaker to avoid that you can draw power power from the *other* outlets than that the breaker is protecting - there is a small risk of burning up the wires without the breaker triggering if the backfeeder if giving a steady stream of power (most notably this occurs with solar, that is why an inverter is typically always on a separate circuit with no other loads connected to the same circuit). Since I have no clue about the typical power levels involved with grid stabilization, I leave my first concern unanswered - hopefully someone else can contrtribute meaningfully to that one. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components
Cor, How about a used Prestolite MTY-4001 570-250/200 36 Volt DC Electric Drive Motor Raymond Forklift from E-bay, they have ten available at just over $350 plus shipping. Heavy at 87 pounds with a 7/8 inch shaft and keyway, and bearings at each end. Plenty of openings for cooling air that need a screen over them. eBay item number: 350858345897 Here is another DC motor with a removable gear on the output shaft: eBay item number: 360573517531 I would like to build a three wheel vehicle so I could register it as a motorcycle if I kept it light enough. Something like a 1927 Ford car with a standard axle at the rear and a single front wheel. However, getting parts and getting moving is an issue. Alan -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 1:43 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components
Cor van de Water via EV wrote: I am assisting someone to design a light 3-wheel EV that should be able to run city speeds, no more than 40 MPH is needed and the weight will probably be under 1000 lbs (plus occupants). Not very aerodynamic but that should not be a problem at these speeds. I have some idea of what components can be used - battery pack should be Lithium to allow a good range and the voltage can be selected to match the performance of the motor/controller. At a minimum (to maintain constant speed) I am estimating about 3kW of power is needed, for (leisure) acceleration and hill climbing I am estimating about 10kW peak power. Since price is an important design criterium, my inclination is to see if one of the kits to give Golfcarts higher performance would be sufficient - most likely that or a similar DC motor setup will be used for this design. This means probably a battery pack of between 48 and 72 Volts. If necessary field weakening to get the motor the higher performance needed for acceleration (like a kick-down) while normal operation on the nominal voltage will give the more steady-state performance at lower current. Any other recommendation for affordable yet durable motor and controller? It is expected that the vehicle must be capable to run 200k mi without frequent overhaul. I helped a guy convert a Vespa Ape 3-wheeler into an EV. These are well under 1000 lbs. His was the "C" body, like the beige one pictured at the bottom of this wikipedia web page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape Imagine a 1-person "egg" for the body, and a tiny pickup truck bed in the back for cargo. It is a 1-front, 2-rear wheel design. The "rear axle" and differential actually sits under the driver's seat. A trailing arm on each side with a chain drives each rear wheel. This setup leaves the space between the rear wheels completely open, which is where the batteries went. We used a golf cart motor, 36v pack of floodeds, and a Curtis 1204 golf cart controller. Since the transaxle has a "floating" shaft, we used a motor that had its own bearing on both ends (newer golf cart motors usually have no bearing on the shaft end, and depend on the transaxle to support the shaft). It performed quite well -- better acceleration and top speed than a golf cart; even better than the original whimsically small scooter-sized ICE it came with! :-) -- All children are born as engineers. Watch them at play. They're not just playing; they're building and learning. They are engineering. Then we get them in school and spend years squashing it out of them. -- Geoffrey Orsak, Southern Methodist University dean of engineering -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
I agree entirely Lee, I have been saying for a couple years that V2G is nearly impossible to implement on a large enough scale. I have allowed the power company to reduce demand during peak hours my water heating and air conditioning consumption. For $14 in monthly credit. However I feel that V2H for reducing my own demand during peak usage times, with a Time Of Day rate adjustment, would be personally economical. Just charging during lower priced times and operating a few pieces during high priced times with power stored in the EV, or perhaps more reasonably, in a stationary battery pack, of lower cost of investment. Like a Solar P V backup battery. *Dennis Lee Miles * *Director **E.V.T.I. Inc.* *E-Mail:* *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913* Dade City, Florida 33523 USA On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > Robert E CIV USNA Annapolis Bruninga via EV wrote: > >> V2G will never be practical unless vehicles are plugged in all day. >> And if they are pluggedin all day, then they only need 120v L1 15 amp >> service. >> > > I agree! I just can't see how high-power V2G can be much more than a > scheme to extract money as well as power from EV owners. > > I've got to see the numbers, in plain English, that tells me I'll get > enough back from power I sell to pay for the cost of the equipment, loss of > convenience, and shortened battery life. > > -- > All children are born as engineers. Watch them at play. They're not > just playing; they're building and learning. They are engineering. > Then we get them in school and spend years squashing it out of them. > -- Geoffrey Orsak, Southern Methodist University dean of engineering > -- > Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/54a52842/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components
Hi Michael, I forgot to mention that an existing light 3-wheeled vehicle is used, so there is no need to design or modify that - preferably the motor simply bolts to the existing transmission with an adapter plate. If a Forklift/pump motor is used the adapter plate is just mechanical mounting/aligning and to seal the transmission, if a golf cart or similar motor is used, there should be a pilot bearing in the adapter plate as well since I do not believe that the original transmission of the 3-wheeler has a bearing where the motor attaches, but I would need to find out. Controller is most likely going to be a "Cursit" of 48V 250-300A but since I am aware that hot temp causes throttle back of the controller, I might recommend to opt for a 450A controller so that even when hot there still is a healthy amount of juice available to manouvre in traffic. Batteries will be Lithium, most likely LiFePO4 with BMS. There are range requirements so I think it will be a rather large pack, possibly even upgrade the voltage to get the range if tests show it is not enough. discharge requirements are quite relaxed so I am not too worried about stress, but due to requirement for longevity, the BMS will need to keep the pack well within safe margins. Charging will be more taxing due to the desire of fast-charge. Concluding - I am mostly looking for recommendations / experience if a golf car style motor can be trusted to run say 10 years in daily use, probably about 200k mi before it needs a complete overhaul - brush replacement can be done at intermediate intervals. Or can only a pump/forklift motor be trusted to run this long without trouble? Thanks! Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info <http://www.cvandewater.infom> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:34 AM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components You could go with ebike/RC components and save a lot of $. Kelly Controllers, ebike hub motors all around (if you aver automotive wheels for bicycling gear). You probably only need a couple HP per person. There is a big uptick in the power needed if you design for 40mph continuous v 25 or 30mph continuous and short 40mph peaks. The tricky part is taking off from a stop which is where a pedal assist is a savings. If the land is flat that is a plus. All the components are smaller, lighter, cheaper if you don't supersize. 48V packs, I got a 20AH pack off of Alibaba for $450 - including BMS, charger, and a bag. So far very good for a year. These are LFP laptop cell sized ones with welded straps for connections. Reliable. Slightly smaller than the size of a group 24 battery. On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 4:43 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: I am assisting someone to design a light 3-wheel EV that should be able to run city speeds, no more than 40 MPH is needed and the weight will probably be under 1000 lbs (plus occupants). Not very aerodynamic but that should not be a problem at these speeds. I have some idea of what components can be used - battery pack should be Lithium to allow a good range and the voltage can be selected to match the performance of the motor/controller. At a minimum (to maintain constant speed) I am estimating about 3kW of power is needed, for (leisure) acceleration and hill climbing I am estimating about 10kW peak power. Since price is an important design criterium, my inclination is to see if one of the kits to give Golfcarts higher performance would be sufficient - most likely that or a similar DC motor setup will be used for this design. This means probably a battery pack of between 48 and 72 Volts. If necessary field weakening to get the motor the higher performance needed for acceleration (like a kick-down) while normal operation on the nominal voltage will give the more steady-state performance at lower current. Any other recommendation for affordable yet durable motor and controller? It is expected that the vehicle must be capable to run 200k mi without frequent overhaul. Thanks for any advice, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info <http://www.cvandewater.infom> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/6396 4d70/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Fo
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
Robert E CIV USNA Annapolis Bruninga via EV wrote: V2G will never be practical unless vehicles are plugged in all day. And if they are pluggedin all day, then they only need 120v L1 15 amp service. I agree! I just can't see how high-power V2G can be much more than a scheme to extract money as well as power from EV owners. I've got to see the numbers, in plain English, that tells me I'll get enough back from power I sell to pay for the cost of the equipment, loss of convenience, and shortened battery life. -- All children are born as engineers. Watch them at play. They're not just playing; they're building and learning. They are engineering. Then we get them in school and spend years squashing it out of them. -- Geoffrey Orsak, Southern Methodist University dean of engineering -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Hilarious!
Sometimes browsing Ebay can give you a chuckle, here is the advertisement of a 48V golfcart motor kickstarter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/48v-Kickstarter/261404950291 Never new that my EV should be kicked on - now I know what to do if it does not go... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info <http://www.cvandewater.infom> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/c8e0062c/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote: Schneider Electric says some kinds of GFCI breakers are not backfeed friendly and can in fact damage them: http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0900DB1001.pdf ---start quote--- These circuit breakers are distinctive in that they have a white “pigtail” wire intended for connection to the neutral bar in the panelboard in which they are installed. This pigtail wire not only completes the branch circuit (the neutral wire must be connected to the circuit breaker rather than to the neutral bar), but also completes the power supply circuit for the electronic ground fault detection circuitry. Backfeeding (reverse connecting) these circuit breakers will result in damaging the trip solenoid, rendering the ground fault trip function inoperative. For this reason the terminals on these circuit breakers are marked “line” and “load”. That's not the kind of backfeeding that a grid-tie inverter or EV doing V2G uses. A GFCI is a switch, a solenoid, and a control circuit. You have to manually turn the switch on. When the control circuit detects a fault, it connects the solenoid to the *output* side of the GFCI. Since there is power there, the solenoid yanks the switch to turn it off. Now there is no power on the output, so the solenoid is off, too. Thus the solenoid cuts its own power. If you connect such a GFCI backwards, then it does *not* turn off power to its solenoid when it trips. The solenoid coil stays powered, and burns up. But a grid-tie inverter or V2G EV will automatically quit backfeeding if it sees the grid go away. This also removes power from the GFCI's solenoid. -- All children are born as engineers. Watch them at play. They're not just playing; they're building and learning. They are engineering. Then we get them in school and spend years squashing it out of them. -- Geoffrey Orsak, Southern Methodist University dean of engineering -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components
Hi Tom, Thanks for that link, though that is a little richer than I expect appropriate for this project. With Golf Cart / Forklift motor of a minimum 3kW running around $500 and a Curtis at approx $300 that seems to be a better way to go to keep cost within target. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of tomw via EV Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:52 AM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components Maybe an AC9 from HPEVS: http://hpevs.com/catalog-ac-9.htm $1895 for motor, controller, and gauge from Electric Car Parts co. Peak 70 ft-lb torque, max 20 HP at 350A, 28 HP at 450A, weight 50 lb. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/recommendat ion-for-light-EV-components-tp4669850p4669851.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote: V2G is a type of backfeeding; 120v L1 outlets protected by GFCIs probably won't work very well for this, but dedicated 120v outlets exempt from upstream GFCI could. No, a GFCI won't care if you are backfeeding power through it. All a GFCI does is compare the hot and neutral currents. If they are equal, all is good. If they are NOT equal, then it assumes the leakage is going to ground somewhere (perhaps through a person!) and shuts off. I have been backfeeding the output from my PV panels and grid-tie inverter for years through a GFCI, and it has never tripped even once. -- All children are born as engineers. Watch them at play. They're not just playing; they're building and learning. They are engineering. Then we get them in school and spend years squashing it out of them. -- Geoffrey Orsak, Southern Methodist University dean of engineering -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
Schneider Electric says some kinds of GFCI breakers are not backfeed friendly and can in fact damage them: http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0900DB1001.pdf ---start quote--- These circuit breakers are distinctive in that they have a white “pigtail” wire intended for connection to the neutral bar in the panelboard in which they are installed. This pigtail wire not only completes the branch circuit (the neutral wire must be connected to the circuit breaker rather than to the neutral bar), but also completes the power supply circuit for the electronic ground fault detection circuitry. Backfeeding (reverse connecting) these circuit breakers will result in damaging the trip solenoid, rendering the ground fault trip function inoperative. For this reason the terminals on these circuit breakers are marked “line” and “load”. ---end quote--- ---start quote--- In summary, circuit breakers with ground fault protection that is line powered, such as those with a pigtail connection, are not suitable for backfeeding. The terminals on these circuit breakers are clearly marked “line” and “load”. This includes Square D™ QO™ and Homeline™ circuit breakers with GFCI (5 mA) and QO and Homeline circuit breakers with low level GFPE (30 mA) protection. Circuit breakers with ground fault protection that is fault powered, such as larger molded case, insulated case and low voltage power circuit breakers, may be suitable for backfeeding. If they are, their terminals will not be marked “line” and “load”. All Square D PowerPact™ and Masterpact™ circuit breakers with Micrologic™ electronic trip units are suitable for backfeeding. Square D add-on ground-fault modules for PowerPact H- and J-frame molded case circuit breakers are also suitable for backfeeding. Square D add-on earth-leakage modules for PowerPact H- and J-frame molded case circuit breakers are not suitable for backfeeding as they are line-powered devices. The OFF end terminals on these modules are marked “load”. ---end quote--- On 06/06/2014 01:32 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: GFCI has no influence on backfeeding, except when a ground fault triggers it and it disconnects. I agree that L1 power is sufficient for charging EVs most of the time (I am 99.9% L1 charge user) My only concern is if the grid support can be delivered through L1, in other words - can an EV give a meaningful support to the grid if it is limited to 1.5kW? The other concern is that most L1 outlets are shared (I mean: more outlets on the same circuit breaker) whereas a backfeeding generator preferably is on its own breaker to avoid that you can draw power power from the *other* outlets than that the breaker is protecting - there is a small risk of burning up the wires without the breaker triggering if the backfeeder if giving a steady stream of power (most notably this occurs with solar, that is why an inverter is typically always on a separate circuit with no other loads connected to the same circuit). Since I have no clue about the typical power levels involved with grid stabilization, I leave my first concern unanswered - hopefully someone else can contrtribute meaningfully to that one. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Haudy Kazemi via EV Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 10:44 AM To: Robert E CIV USNA Annapolis Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical On 06/06/2014 09:41 AM, Robert E CIV USNA Annapolis Bruninga via EV wrote: Subj was: RE: [EVDL] EVLN: E-school-buses$aveschooldistrictsmillions I just think the fluctuation in loads is substantially more predictable than the number of vehicles plugged in at any one time. Which trigger my 2 cents: V2G will never be practical unless vehicles are plugged in all day. And if they are pluggedin all day, then they only need 120v L1 15 amp service. Already, we know that 97% of charging-at-work is satisfied with L1 charging. So in order for V2G to be able to take advantage of all the demand-load of millions of EV's and/or to also take some charge, the focus has to be on low-cost L1 approach, not expecting EVERY EV (by the millions) to have a 50 amp L2 service and to sit there blocking it all day long. That is simply unsustainable at the quantities needed. Millions of L1 outlets is possible and practical. But providing at least demand-response at every L1 outlet in a parking lot is as easy as hooking up a water-heater or Airconditioner utility disconnect and giving the utility immediate control over that load during the day. This is not only dirt cheap, and practical, it eliminates the #1 issue with V2G (NFMB, Not From MY Battery!). Sure it gives up 50% of the promise of V2G (and all
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
GFCI has no influence on backfeeding, except when a ground fault triggers it and it disconnects. I agree that L1 power is sufficient for charging EVs most of the time (I am 99.9% L1 charge user) My only concern is if the grid support can be delivered through L1, in other words - can an EV give a meaningful support to the grid if it is limited to 1.5kW? The other concern is that most L1 outlets are shared (I mean: more outlets on the same circuit breaker) whereas a backfeeding generator preferably is on its own breaker to avoid that you can draw power power from the *other* outlets than that the breaker is protecting - there is a small risk of burning up the wires without the breaker triggering if the backfeeder if giving a steady stream of power (most notably this occurs with solar, that is why an inverter is typically always on a separate circuit with no other loads connected to the same circuit). Since I have no clue about the typical power levels involved with grid stabilization, I leave my first concern unanswered - hopefully someone else can contrtribute meaningfully to that one. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Haudy Kazemi via EV Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 10:44 AM To: Robert E CIV USNA Annapolis Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical On 06/06/2014 09:41 AM, Robert E CIV USNA Annapolis Bruninga via EV wrote: > Subj was: RE: [EVDL] EVLN: E-school-buses$aveschooldistrictsmillions > >>> I just think the fluctuation in loads is substantially more predictable >>> than the number of vehicles plugged in at any one time. > Which trigger my 2 cents: > > V2G will never be practical unless vehicles are plugged in all day. > And if they are pluggedin all day, then they only need 120v L1 15 amp > service. > Already, we know that 97% of charging-at-work is satisfied with L1 charging. > > So in order for V2G to be able to take advantage of all the demand-load of > millions of EV's and/or to also take some charge, the focus has to be on > low-cost L1 approach, not expecting EVERY EV (by the millions) to have a 50 > amp L2 service and to sit there blocking it all day long. That is simply > unsustainable at the quantities needed. Millions of L1 outlets is possible > and practical. > > But providing at least demand-response at every L1 outlet in a parking lot > is as easy as hooking up a water-heater or Airconditioner utility disconnect > and giving the utility immediate control over that load during the day. > This is not only dirt cheap, and practical, it eliminates the #1 issue with > V2G (NFMB, Not From MY Battery!). > > Sure it gives up 50% of the promise of V2G (and all its NFMB issues) but the > other 50% is the low hanging fruit, that is PRACTICAL at SCALE is simply L1 > charging-at-work with demand response control of the outlets. > > Bob Bruninga, PE > EVADC > V2G is a type of backfeeding; 120v L1 outlets protected by GFCIs probably won't work very well for this, but dedicated 120v outlets exempt from upstream GFCI could. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
On 06/06/2014 09:41 AM, Robert E CIV USNA Annapolis Bruninga via EV wrote: Subj was: RE: [EVDL] EVLN: E-school-buses$aveschooldistrictsmillions I just think the fluctuation in loads is substantially more predictable than the number of vehicles plugged in at any one time. Which trigger my 2 cents: V2G will never be practical unless vehicles are plugged in all day. And if they are pluggedin all day, then they only need 120v L1 15 amp service. Already, we know that 97% of charging-at-work is satisfied with L1 charging. So in order for V2G to be able to take advantage of all the demand-load of millions of EV's and/or to also take some charge, the focus has to be on low-cost L1 approach, not expecting EVERY EV (by the millions) to have a 50 amp L2 service and to sit there blocking it all day long. That is simply unsustainable at the quantities needed. Millions of L1 outlets is possible and practical. But providing at least demand-response at every L1 outlet in a parking lot is as easy as hooking up a water-heater or Airconditioner utility disconnect and giving the utility immediate control over that load during the day. This is not only dirt cheap, and practical, it eliminates the #1 issue with V2G (NFMB, Not From MY Battery!). Sure it gives up 50% of the promise of V2G (and all its NFMB issues) but the other 50% is the low hanging fruit, that is PRACTICAL at SCALE is simply L1 charging-at-work with demand response control of the outlets. Bob Bruninga, PE EVADC V2G is a type of backfeeding; 120v L1 outlets protected by GFCIs probably won't work very well for this, but dedicated 120v outlets exempt from upstream GFCI could. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] V2G at L1 is practical
Subj was: RE: [EVDL] EVLN: E-school-buses$aveschooldistrictsmillions >> I just think the fluctuation in loads is substantially more predictable >> than the number of vehicles plugged in at any one time. Which trigger my 2 cents: V2G will never be practical unless vehicles are plugged in all day. And if they are pluggedin all day, then they only need 120v L1 15 amp service. Already, we know that 97% of charging-at-work is satisfied with L1 charging. So in order for V2G to be able to take advantage of all the demand-load of millions of EV's and/or to also take some charge, the focus has to be on low-cost L1 approach, not expecting EVERY EV (by the millions) to have a 50 amp L2 service and to sit there blocking it all day long. That is simply unsustainable at the quantities needed. Millions of L1 outlets is possible and practical. But providing at least demand-response at every L1 outlet in a parking lot is as easy as hooking up a water-heater or Airconditioner utility disconnect and giving the utility immediate control over that load during the day. This is not only dirt cheap, and practical, it eliminates the #1 issue with V2G (NFMB, Not From MY Battery!). Sure it gives up 50% of the promise of V2G (and all its NFMB issues) but the other 50% is the low hanging fruit, that is PRACTICAL at SCALE is simply L1 charging-at-work with demand response control of the outlets. Bob Bruninga, PE EVADC ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components
You could go with ebike/RC components and save a lot of $. Kelly Controllers, ebike hub motors all around (if you aver automotive wheels for bicycling gear). You probably only need a couple HP per person. There is a big uptick in the power needed if you design for 40mph continuous v 25 or 30mph continuous and short 40mph peaks. The tricky part is taking off from a stop which is where a pedal assist is a savings. If the land is flat that is a plus. All the components are smaller, lighter, cheaper if you don't supersize. 48V packs, I got a 20AH pack off of Alibaba for $450 - including BMS, charger, and a bag. So far very good for a year. These are LFP laptop cell sized ones with welded straps for connections. Reliable. Slightly smaller than the size of a group 24 battery. On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 4:43 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > I am assisting someone to design a light 3-wheel EV that should be able > to run city speeds, > > no more than 40 MPH is needed and the weight will probably be under 1000 > lbs (plus occupants). > > Not very aerodynamic but that should not be a problem at these speeds. > > I have some idea of what components can be used - battery pack should be > Lithium to allow > > a good range and the voltage can be selected to match the performance of > the motor/controller. > > At a minimum (to maintain constant speed) I am estimating about 3kW of > power is needed, > > for (leisure) acceleration and hill climbing I am estimating about 10kW > peak power. > > Since price is an important design criterium, my inclination is to see > if one of the kits > > to give Golfcarts higher performance would be sufficient - most likely > that or a similar > > DC motor setup will be used for this design. This means probably a > battery pack of > > between 48 and 72 Volts. If necessary field weakening to get the motor > the higher > > performance needed for acceleration (like a kick-down) while normal > operation on > > the nominal voltage will give the more steady-state performance at lower > current. > > > > Any other recommendation for affordable yet durable motor and > controller? > > It is expected that the vehicle must be capable to run 200k mi without > frequent overhaul. > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com > <http://www.proxim.com> > Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info > <http://www.cvandewater.infom> > Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/63964d70/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, "The summer day." To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/37ea5230/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] recommendation for light EV components
Maybe an AC9 from HPEVS: http://hpevs.com/catalog-ac-9.htm $1895 for motor, controller, and gauge from Electric Car Parts co. Peak 70 ft-lb torque, max 20 HP at 350A, 28 HP at 450A, weight 50 lb. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/recommendation-for-light-EV-components-tp4669850p4669851.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] recommendation for light EV components
I am assisting someone to design a light 3-wheel EV that should be able to run city speeds, no more than 40 MPH is needed and the weight will probably be under 1000 lbs (plus occupants). Not very aerodynamic but that should not be a problem at these speeds. I have some idea of what components can be used - battery pack should be Lithium to allow a good range and the voltage can be selected to match the performance of the motor/controller. At a minimum (to maintain constant speed) I am estimating about 3kW of power is needed, for (leisure) acceleration and hill climbing I am estimating about 10kW peak power. Since price is an important design criterium, my inclination is to see if one of the kits to give Golfcarts higher performance would be sufficient - most likely that or a similar DC motor setup will be used for this design. This means probably a battery pack of between 48 and 72 Volts. If necessary field weakening to get the motor the higher performance needed for acceleration (like a kick-down) while normal operation on the nominal voltage will give the more steady-state performance at lower current. Any other recommendation for affordable yet durable motor and controller? It is expected that the vehicle must be capable to run 200k mi without frequent overhaul. Thanks for any advice, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info <http://www.cvandewater.infom> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140606/63964d70/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S' range hasn’t diminished after 28kmi/11mo (video)
http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-range-11-months-28000-miles/
Tesla Model S Range After 11 Months, 28,000 Miles
[Jun 2, 2014] by Eric Loveday
[video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rVEKTHwwnTs
Tesla Model S: Range after 28,000 Miles and 11 Months!
KmanAuto· May 9, 2014
Well, 28,000 miles, and 11 months. Thought I would have had more miles on by
now, but other things got in the way :( Anyways, Rated range is showing 206
miles on a full 100% charge on Firmware 5.9. Now, I've done range charges a
few times on 5.9, and Every time, the car has traveled 2-3 miles BORE I
loose a rated mile from my range. Showing that Even though 206 is displayed,
I am still getting approx 207-209 Rated Miles. My Delivery Day Range was 209
Miles.
images
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/tesla-range-60-kwh.jpg
60 kWh Range
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/60-kwh.jpg
60 kWh Tesla Model S Specs
]
Battery degradation impacts every electric vehicle out there, so how does
the Tesla Model S fare?
Well, 28,000 miles, and 11 months.
Rated range is showing 206 miles on a full 100% charge on Firmware 5.9.
Even though 206 is displayed, I am still getting approx 207-209 Rated
Miles.
My Delivery Day Range was 209 Miles.
Says Tesla Model S owner and YouTuber KmanAuto. Kman owns a 60 kWh Model S,
which is EPA rated at 208 miles of range.
It seems as though the range of this particular Model S hasn’t diminished as
of yet.
To the Model S owners out there, we ask: have you seen your rated
full-charge range drop over time? If so, by how much and what’s the age and
mileage of your Model S?
[© 2014 Inside EVs]
For all EVLN posts use:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date
http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/events-from-june-5-1.1361670
EV-drives @windfallcentre.ca Festival 6/7-8 Fairy Lake Park, Newmarket.ca
http://www.govtech.com/transportation/Meet-the-First-Public-Sector-Chief-Electric-Vehicle-Officer-in-the-Nation.html
She's the 1st Public-Sector Chief EV Officer in the Nation
http://www.complex.com/rides/2014/06/tesla-trying-to-pay-more-attention-to-women-with-model-x
Musk sez Tesla-X will cater more to females than the Model-S did
http://thenewswheel.com/uc-davis-study-women-evs/
Women May Be Overlooked in EV Adoption Process in UC Davis Study
...
http://ecomento.com/2014/05/28/study-men-and-women-have-different-plug-in-car-priorities/
Gender determines electric car driving habits, study says
http://www.scnow.com/news/article_e2e44676-e90c-11e3-8041-0017a43b2370.html
SAE concludes windows-down air-drag is less-lossy than using A/C
http://qz.com/214969/two-big-labs-most-promising-next-generation-battery-electric-car/
2 big labs step back from Li-air & turn toward sodium
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-05-26/news/ct-glasgow-arlington-heights-tl-nw-20140526_1_youth-commission-teen-son-arlington-heights-school-district
Trustee's teen son enviro-commissioner to install more public EVSE
+
EVLN: Tesla-S Aerodynamics Pretty Freakin’ Awesome
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-S-range-hasn-t-diminished-after-28kmi-11mo-video-tp4669849.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S Aerodynamics Pretty Freakin’ Awesome
Ford Killed SEX, Sez Tesla's Elon Musk
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/06/04/tesla-model-s-aerodynamics/
Tesla Model S Aerodynamics Pretty Freakin’ Awesome
By: Christopher DeMorro, 5/30/2014 Tesla Motors | Car & Driver
[image
http://gas2.org/files/2014/05/tesla-wind-tunnel.jpg
]
Is there anything that the Tesla Model S isn’t best at? From consumer safety
to performance to comfort, the Model S is practically in a league of its
own. Turns out Tesla Model S aerodynamics are also much better than you
might expect from a car of its size and weight. Chris will provide more
details on why:
Tesla Model S Wins Aerodynamics Comparison
Electric cars are offering car designers a whole new palette to paint upon,
as they don’t require the same access to air that combustion engines do. In
a recent comparison test by Car & Driver, the Tesla Model S was proven to
have the lowest drag coefficient, beating out four aerodynamic competitors.
Car & Driver was able to wrangle five vehicles with some of the best
aerodynamics on the market, which included two of the usual suspects, the
Toyota Prius and Nissan Leaf. Another obvious contender was the Chevy Volt,
though the new Mercedes CLA “Baby Benz” entered the race as a bit of a dark
horse. Then there’s the literal elephant in the room, the biggest and
heaviest car there by a wide margin, the Tesla Model S.
Amazingly, the Model S had the lowest front drag area of the whole group,
which is a combination of the drag coefficient and frontal area exposed to
aerodynamic drag. More drag means more power to push through the wind at
higher speeds, and having a low drag coefficient has become key in achieving
outstanding levels of fuel economy. The egg-shaped Toyota Prius sets the bar
for production cars with a 0.26 drag coefficient, but the Model S edged it
out with a 0.24 rating. The Tesla matched the Toyota with 6.2 feet of drag
area as well, a remarkable feat for such a large car. The next closest
contender was the Chevy Volt, with 6.7 feet of drag area and a drag
coefficient of 0.28.
How’d they do it? The biggest advantage the Tesla has over the competition
is an air ride suspension that lowers it about 8/10th of an inch during
highway speeds, reducing the drag area. by coming closer to the ground. The
Model S also has a smooth underbelly, because it lacks an engine bay or
exhaust system in a traditional sense. It still requires air cooling, but
the Model S has active grille shutters that open and close in accordance
with need. The front fascia was also designed to deflect air away from the
wheel wells, a traditional source of drag on many cars.
Turns out electric cars like the Tesla can do just about everything better
than conventional vehicles, including wind tunnel tests, and with
aerodynamics being so key to efficiency these days, EVs are clearly the way
to go if you want to build the slipperiest car on the road.
[© cleantechnica.com]
...
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/slipperiest-car-road
The Slipperiest Car on the Road
...
http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/the-slipperiest-car-on-the-road.pdf
Five slippery cars enter a wind tunnel; one slinks out a winner
...
http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/2886/20140604/ford-killed-sex-tesla-elon-musk.htm
Ford Killed SEX, Sez Tesla's Elon Musk
For all EVLN posts use:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date
http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/events-from-june-5-1.1361670
EV-drives @windfallcentre.ca Festival 6/7-8 Fairy Lake Park, Newmarket.ca
http://www.govtech.com/transportation/Meet-the-First-Public-Sector-Chief-Electric-Vehicle-Officer-in-the-Nation.html
She's the 1st Public-Sector Chief EV Officer in the Nation
http://www.complex.com/rides/2014/06/tesla-trying-to-pay-more-attention-to-women-with-model-x
Musk sez Tesla-X will cater more to females than the Model-S did
http://thenewswheel.com/uc-davis-study-women-evs/
Women May Be Overlooked in EV Adoption Process in UC Davis Study
...
http://ecomento.com/2014/05/28/study-men-and-women-have-different-plug-in-car-priorities/
Gender determines electric car driving habits, study says
http://www.scnow.com/news/article_e2e44676-e90c-11e3-8041-0017a43b2370.html
SAE concludes windows-down air-drag is less-lossy than using A/C
http://qz.com/214969/two-big-labs-most-promising-next-generation-battery-electric-car/
2 big labs step back from Li-air & turn toward sodium
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-05-26/news/ct-glasgow-arlington-heights-tl-nw-20140526_1_youth-commission-teen-son-arlington-heights-school-district
Trustee's teen son enviro-commissioner to install more public EVSE
+
EVLN: Tesla-S' range hasn’t diminished after 28kmi/11mo (video)
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-S-Aerodynamics-Pretty-Freakin-Awesome-tp4669848.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle
