Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
On 28 Sep 2015 at 21:30, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > Our budget ev's fail because they are too heavy. I wasn't going to write anthing more about this subject, but I have to respond to this. YOU may consider YOUR budget EVs to be failures, and that's entirely your right. Maybe they don't meet your needs. I have no idea. But I sure hope you're using the "royal our" there, because you don't get to make that judgement about other people's EVs. Thousands of people all over the world have built short- to medium-range conversion and original EVs that suit their needs just fine, thank you very much, regardless of what you think of them. I'll just add that some folks on this discussion list might indeed buy hyperefficient EVs. Maybe I would. I initially thought the Aptera was a really interesting idea. However, we're talking a percentage of about 600 people, which is not exactly survival territory for most automakers. Hyperefficient and/or onboard PV EVs are a tiny niche of an already small niche. And EVs are still a niche product. We think that Nissan selling 30,200 Leaves last year was a huge success, and it was, but in the same year Chevrolet sold 34,839 Corvettes, and even GM will tell you that the 'Vette is a niche vehicle. So if you want something like Stella, you're probably going to have to build it yourself. If you don't want to duplicate Stella, maybe you could find a copy of the plans for Bob McKee's Sundancer and update the design. It managed between 95 and 135 Wh/mi (depending on speed) in 1973. That was with lead batteries, a DC motor, and a belt drive. Just imagine what it could do with 2015 engineering! Curiously, its dimensions were quite close to Stella's (124" long, 40" high, 62" wide). And, IMO, it was a much more handsome car than Stella. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
On Mon Sep 28 21:12:35 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said: >I thought that both would be well recieved. Alas the VLC still sits waiting >for traction. No one seems interested in it. I wondered why? Does it have Stereo, Air Conditioning, windows that open, comfy seats, reasonable acceleration? Without those at a bare minimum, won't sell. -- Try my Sensible Email package! https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
On Sep 28, 2015, at 9:12 PM, rayfellow via EV wrote: > The difference in per mile costs for an efficient EV vs a > heavy user is still not all that much. This is a _very_ significant part of the equation. My parents recently bought a Leaf. They love it, can't stop talking about it. And they literally can't tell the difference in their electric bills since they bought it. In computer programming, it's known as premature optimization. If you have a choice of writing code that's quick and easy for the programmer to write and later update and maintain, but runs 1000 times slower than some sophisticated but difficult-to-understand alternative, which do you write? First, you write the quick-and-easy code. And you don't ever look at it again until and unless performance is a problem. Even if the easy way is 1000 times slower...if it takes ten seconds to execute rather than 0.01 seconds...well, if it's something that a single person executes once every four months, why spend hours of expensive programmer time saving a low-paid end user half a minute spread out over the course of a year? If it's part of the inner event loop of an high-performance video game, sure; you squeeze every last CPU cycle out of it. But, within rounding, that represents 0% of the computer code written on a daily basis. So it is with electric vehicles. You've got one vehicle that gets ten miles per kWh, another that gets "only" three miles per kWh. The one is three times as expensive to charge up, so somebody's got to notice, right? Not when the difference in cost to drive 30 miles for your commute is 30 miles / (10 - 3 miles / kWh) * 10¢ / kWh = 43¢ -- not even enough to buy a stamp these days! Now, consider that a significant fraction of EV owners have rooftop solar, and thus their ongoing marginal cost per kWh is literally zero...and why should such people even pretend to care about efficiency? On the list of things that matter in an electric vehicle, efficiency isn't even on the list. Indirectly, perhaps, in terms of range and the cost of the battery to support the desired range...but make an affordable EV with a 400 mile range and efficiency even as bad as an entire kWh / mile, and you won't be able to make them fast enough to meet demand. Cheers, b& -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/27ef2d7e/attachment.pgp> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
Personally, I think there are two factors. First, performance. A Tesla is a thrill at every stop light (especially if you are first in line). Second, commercialization and availability. Elon Musk had the drive and push to get his car built and available around the world. Three years ago, Tesla was giving test drives and selling cars in Boise, ID. People in Boise have never heard of a VLC; much less seen or driven one. Add in the Tesla SuperCharger network, and it is game over. I think people want to be environmentally conscious, but fun sells cars. A fun car that is efficient enough will win against a more efficient car that isn't as fun. Mike On September 28, 2015 10:12:35 PM MDT, rayfellow via EV wrote: >In 2012 I was helping Oliver Kuttner promote his VLC or Very Light Car. >It >was very aerodynamic too (0.16 drag). His team won the X prize in 2008 >- >getting 108 or so MPG with fuel. The car he had in California was >electric. >It had a 10KWh battery and would go 100 miles between charges - It >weighed >under 1,000 pounds. I rode in the car some 50 miles or so, and was >impressed >with the ride, comfort etc. It carried 4 passengers. > >About this time Tesla came out with their car - Big battery and heavy. >I >thought that the VLC would be as popular as the Tesla.. Boy was I >wrong! No >one seemed impressed that the VLC would go a mile on 100wh vs the 300wh >for >the Tesla. > >I thought that both would be well recieved. Alas the VLC still sits >waiting >for traction. No one seems interested in it. I wondered why? The only >answer >I can come up with is the cost of electricity is relitively cheap >compared >to liquid fuel. The difference in per mile costs for an efficient EV vs >a >heavy user is still not all that much. > >I have pondered this. Maybe there are other reasons too - but >seriously, >none of the current EV's comes close to Aptera or VLC in efficency.. >and yet >no one wants them. > >-- >View this message in context: >http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-The-Big-EV-Debate-Go-for-Small-or-Big-Battery-Pack-tp4677803p4677812.html >Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at >Nabble.com. >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
In 2012 I was helping Oliver Kuttner promote his VLC or Very Light Car. It was very aerodynamic too (0.16 drag). His team won the X prize in 2008 - getting 108 or so MPG with fuel. The car he had in California was electric. It had a 10KWh battery and would go 100 miles between charges - It weighed under 1,000 pounds. I rode in the car some 50 miles or so, and was impressed with the ride, comfort etc. It carried 4 passengers. About this time Tesla came out with their car - Big battery and heavy. I thought that the VLC would be as popular as the Tesla.. Boy was I wrong! No one seemed impressed that the VLC would go a mile on 100wh vs the 300wh for the Tesla. I thought that both would be well recieved. Alas the VLC still sits waiting for traction. No one seems interested in it. I wondered why? The only answer I can come up with is the cost of electricity is relitively cheap compared to liquid fuel. The difference in per mile costs for an efficient EV vs a heavy user is still not all that much. I have pondered this. Maybe there are other reasons too - but seriously, none of the current EV's comes close to Aptera or VLC in efficency.. and yet no one wants them. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-The-Big-EV-Debate-Go-for-Small-or-Big-Battery-Pack-tp4677803p4677812.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
The Leaf is a great car overall but for stop & go city driving, the regen often cuts out when braking and switches to mechanical - sometimes I can feel the switchover. Even if there was no regen, an earlier thread on this forum illustrated that regen probably only adds about 5% to the miles / kWh. Maybe 10% if you're really special :) Regardless, it's very apparent that cruising at 40mph gives excellent miles / kWH -- somewhere around 5+ and even at 60mph up to 4. I never get that on city blocks where I'm stopping and starting and going up and down steep hills. I always drive in "B" (stronger regen) mode, not "D" mode. By the way, minor point: it doesn't take a small vehicle to have a low Cd. The Boeing 747 has a Cd = .031. That's .031, not .31 :) Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Mike Nickerson" To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 28-Sep-15 5:13:08 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack? I think it is key to remember, though, that a Cd of 0.16 is deep into concept car territory. Most small cars are 0.28-0.32. The Toyota Prius is 0.25. The Tesla Model S is 0.24. There isn't much under 0.24 that isn't concept or experimental (except the EV1 at 0.195). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient I'm surprised the Leaf doesn't do better in the city. Does it brake aggressively enough with regeneration so you don't need the friction brakes much? I have to drive the Tesla very aggressively to get less than 3 miles per kWh. On a bad day, I get around 300 Wh per mile. On a careful day, I can get around 230-250 Wh per mile. However, due to aggressive regeneration, it gets almost everything back into the battery. I hardly use the friction brakes. Mike On September 28, 2015 2:39:45 PM MDT, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: I think the key factor is the Cd of .16. While I think lighter vehicles are better for many reasons, it doesn't seem to make that much difference in efficiency unless you are spending most of your time on slow speed city streets. For example, my Leaf gets about 1.5 - 2.5 miles per kWh (depending on accessories and temperature) on city streets where I live. But if I go 60mph on the freeway, I can sometimes get 4 miles per kWh. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" ; "ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org" Sent: 28-Sep-15 1:31:45 PM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack? The debate should be about light or heavy vehicles and efficiency. If you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per mile. The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or any other of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give good range with a small pack. They all draw 200 or more wh per mile. The I3 is going in the right direction. It has a relatively small pack and is more efficient than all the other competitors.If however you have a light vehicle around a thousand pounds your range will be close to 350 miles with a 16kw battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD of about .16. With these specifications you don't have to have a big pack. It will charge in 2.5 hours with a 6.6kw charger. Efficiency and charging time should be the goal. Smaller the pack the quicker the charge. Also the packs will last longer as they are not stressed as much by carrying large weights. Engineering the right combination is what is needed. Not 85kw packs in 5000 pound cars...however they are very comfortable and useful as is and better than the ICE alternative. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/dcb4a2f9/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
ed. You might not need more than 20kW to move one econobox but see how Model S P85D puts the EV's on the map. Our budget conversions could not do that. We need to admit that. Sorry. What makes all the difference for the business is how much does the battery cost. We will see less than $100/kWh before 2020. Or at least it is possible but if demand is high it sets the price level. On the other hand Tesla may provide Model 3 as a service and they will own the cars always. Then it does not matter how much the cells cost. You just pay that 10c/mi and nothing else. So it does not matter if it weights 2, 3 or 5 tons. Even less if the car drives itself. :) -Jukka http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about 2015-09-28 23:39 GMT+03:00 Peri Hartman via EV : I think the key factor is the Cd of .16. While I think lighter vehicles are better for many reasons, it doesn't seem to make that much difference in efficiency unless you are spending most of your time on slow speed city streets. For example, my Leaf gets about 1.5 - 2.5 miles per kWh (depending on accessories and temperature) on city streets where I live. But if I go 60mph on the freeway, I can sometimes get 4 miles per kWh. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" ; "ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org" < ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org> Sent: 28-Sep-15 1:31:45 PM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack? The debate should be about light or heavy vehicles and efficiency. If you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per mile. The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or any other of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give good range with a small pack. They all draw 200 or more wh per mile. The I3 is going in the right direction. It has a relatively small pack and is more efficient than all the other competitors.If however you have a light vehicle around a thousand pounds your range will be close to 350 miles with a 16kw battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD of about .16. With these specifications you don't have to have a big pack. It will charge in 2.5 hours with a 6.6kw charger. Efficiency and charging time should be the goal. Smaller the pack the quicker the charge. Also the packs will last longer as they are not stressed as much by carrying large weights. Engineering the right combination is what is needed. Not 85kw packs in 5000 pound cars...however they are very comfortable and useful as is and better than the ICE alternative. Lawrence Rhodes ------ next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/dcb4a2f9/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
I think it is key to remember, though, that a Cd of 0.16 is deep into concept car territory. Most small cars are 0.28-0.32. The Toyota Prius is 0.25. The Tesla Model S is 0.24. There isn't much under 0.24 that isn't concept or experimental (except the EV1 at 0.195). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient I'm surprised the Leaf doesn't do better in the city. Does it brake aggressively enough with regeneration so you don't need the friction brakes much? I have to drive the Tesla very aggressively to get less than 3 miles per kWh. On a bad day, I get around 300 Wh per mile. On a careful day, I can get around 230-250 Wh per mile. However, due to aggressive regeneration, it gets almost everything back into the battery. I hardly use the friction brakes. Mike On September 28, 2015 2:39:45 PM MDT, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: >I think the key factor is the Cd of .16. While I think lighter >vehicles are better for many reasons, it doesn't seem to make that much > >difference in efficiency unless you are spending most of your time on >slow speed city streets. > >For example, my Leaf gets about 1.5 - 2.5 miles per kWh (depending on >accessories and temperature) on city streets where I live. But if I go > >60mph on the freeway, I can sometimes get 4 miles per kWh. > >Peri > >-- Original Message -- >From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" >To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" ; >"ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org" > >Sent: 28-Sep-15 1:31:45 PM >Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery >Pack? > >>The debate should be about light or heavy vehicles and efficiency. >If >>you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per >>mile. The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or > >>any other of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give >>good range with a small pack. They all draw 200 or more wh per mile. > >>The I3 is going in the right direction. It has a relatively small >pack >>and is more efficient than all the other competitors.If however >you >>have a light vehicle around a thousand pounds your range will be close > >>to 350 miles with a 16kw battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD > >>of about .16. With these specifications you don't have to have a big >>pack. It will charge in 2.5 hours with a 6.6kw charger. Efficiency >>and charging time should be the goal. Smaller the pack the quicker >the >>charge. Also the packs will last longer as they are not stressed as >>much by carrying large weights. Engineering the right combination is >>what is needed. Not 85kw packs in 5000 pound cars...however they are >>very comfortable and useful as is and better than the ICE alternative. > >>Lawrence Rhodes >>-- next part -- >>An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>URL: >><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/dcb4a2f9/attachment.htm> >>___ >>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
les and efficiency. If > you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per mile. > The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or any other > of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give good range with > a small pack. They all draw 200 or more wh per mile. The I3 is going in > the right direction. It has a relatively small pack and is more efficient > than all the other competitors.If however you have a light vehicle > around a thousand pounds your range will be close to 350 miles with a 16kw > battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD of about .16. With these > specifications you don't have to have a big pack. It will charge in 2.5 > hours with a 6.6kw charger. Efficiency and charging time should be the > goal. Smaller the pack the quicker the charge. Also the packs will last > longer as they are not stressed as much by carrying large weights. > Engineering the right combination is what is needed. Not 85kw packs in > 5000 pound cars...however they are very comfortable and useful as is and > better than the ICE alternative. Lawrence Rhodes > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/dcb4a2f9/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/c2016efb/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150929/ec578189/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
On 28 Sep 2015 at 20:31, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > The debate should be about light or heavy vehicles and efficiency. If you > have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per mile. The > typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or any other of the > currently available EV's are just too heavy to give good range with a small > pack. I may have missed something here, but I don't see what debate you're talking about. Nobody is going to argue that a light, efficient vehicle isn't a route to getting decent range out of a small, cheap battery. The problem is selling the EV. In the real world of real customers buying real cars in real first-world nations, there's a limit on lightening vehicles, at least if you're staying in the 4-wheel class. You're constrained not just by customer expectations - safety, comfort, cupholders - but also by vehicle safety regulations. You can evade them with a 3- wheeler, but we've seen where that goes. The market for ultralight (non-bike) EVs is small, though probably not nonexistent. But because sales are and will be low, economy of scale is limited. That in turn means minimally-equipped vehicles and/or high prices. Both of these further crimp the market size. You're just not going to get very many people to give up their Corollas and RAV4s unless you match or exceed their current rides for comfort and safety. I think the key to modest sales success with ultralight EVs is to follow the example set by Renault with the Twizy. They emphasize its quirkiness. They get race car drivers to have fun with it and shoot video of them. They're not really trying to sell it so much as practical transportation, but more as entertainment. They seem to be having modest success with that. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
Our budget ev's fail because they are too heavy. If you converted or built a small light vehicle using a kit as are available you will find that you will gain in every area with a small pack and light vehicle. Look at Stella Lux. Pushing a 700 mile range with 15kw pack. Look at what the Tesla could do with a light vehicle. Because of the 85 to 90kw pack the car must be much heavier to carry the weight. Carrying more weight hurts range so it is a vicious cycle of over engineering. 375 miles on 16kw or 300 miles on 85kw. I will take the lighter alternative...add solar and you never need plugging in as solar makes sense on light vehiclesnot heavy ones like we convert. Lawrence Rhodes From: Jukka Järvinen To: Peri Hartman ; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: Lawrence Rhodes ; "ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack? I think it's more important to think how the user benefits from the battery sizing. While it might sound irrational to have 150kWh onboard it would enable stressless driving with longer useful lifetime. The vehicle it self will have better resale value as it remains more usable even after 10 or 15 years. Also people need to charge their cars only as much as they use. It has nothing to do with the battery size. But... 1C charging with 20kWh pack is 333Wh/minute. 1C charging for 150kWh pack is 2.500Wh/minute. If it takes 250Wh/km (400Wh/mi) you either gain 0,83mi/minute or 6,25mi/minute. A DC-dumping with 300kW will stress less the larger pack as it has more mass to absorb the losses and there's less temperature rise during use. Also the discharge side has to be considered. You might not need more than 20kW to move one econobox but see how Model S P85D puts the EV's on the map. Our budget conversions could not do that. We need to admit that. Sorry. What makes all the difference for the business is how much does the battery cost. We will see less than $100/kWh before 2020. Or at least it is possible but if demand is high it sets the price level. On the other hand Tesla may provide Model 3 as a service and they will own the cars always. Then it does not matter how much the cells cost. You just pay that 10c/mi and nothing else. So it does not matter if it weights 2, 3 or 5 tons. Even less if the car drives itself. :) -Jukka http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about 2015-09-28 23:39 GMT+03:00 Peri Hartman via EV : I think the key factor is the Cd of .16. While I think lighter vehicles are better for many reasons, it doesn't seem to make that much difference in efficiency unless you are spending most of your time on slow speed city streets. For example, my Leaf gets about 1.5 - 2.5 miles per kWh (depending on accessories and temperature) on city streets where I live. But if I go 60mph on the freeway, I can sometimes get 4 miles per kWh. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" ; "ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org" Sent: 28-Sep-15 1:31:45 PM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack? The debate should be about light or heavy vehicles and efficiency. If you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per mile. The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or any other of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give good range with a small pack. They all draw 200 or more wh per mile. The I3 is going in the right direction. It has a relatively small pack and is more efficient than all the other competitors. If however you have a light vehicle around a thousand pounds your range will be close to 350 miles with a 16kw battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD of about .16. With these specifications you don't have to have a big pack. It will charge in 2.5 hours with a 6.6kw charger. Efficiency and charging time should be the goal. Smaller the pack the quicker the charge. Also the packs will last longer as they are not stressed as much by carrying large weights. Engineering the right combination is what is needed. Not 85kw packs in 5000 pound cars...however they are very comfortable and useful as is and better than the ICE alternative. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/dcb4a2f9/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/i
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
I think it's more important to think how the user benefits from the battery sizing. While it might sound irrational to have 150kWh onboard it would enable stressless driving with longer useful lifetime. The vehicle it self will have better resale value as it remains more usable even after 10 or 15 years. Also people need to charge their cars only as much as they use. It has nothing to do with the battery size. But... 1C charging with 20kWh pack is 333Wh/minute. 1C charging for 150kWh pack is 2.500Wh/minute. If it takes 250Wh/km (400Wh/mi) you either gain 0,83mi/minute or 6,25mi/minute. A DC-dumping with 300kW will stress less the larger pack as it has more mass to absorb the losses and there's less temperature rise during use. Also the discharge side has to be considered. You might not need more than 20kW to move one econobox but see how Model S P85D puts the EV's on the map. Our budget conversions could not do that. We need to admit that. Sorry. What makes all the difference for the business is how much does the battery cost. We will see less than $100/kWh before 2020. Or at least it is possible but if demand is high it sets the price level. On the other hand Tesla may provide Model 3 as a service and they will own the cars always. Then it does not matter how much the cells cost. You just pay that 10c/mi and nothing else. So it does not matter if it weights 2, 3 or 5 tons. Even less if the car drives itself. :) -Jukka http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about 2015-09-28 23:39 GMT+03:00 Peri Hartman via EV : > I think the key factor is the Cd of .16. While I think lighter vehicles > are better for many reasons, it doesn't seem to make that much difference > in efficiency unless you are spending most of your time on slow speed city > streets. > > For example, my Leaf gets about 1.5 - 2.5 miles per kWh (depending on > accessories and temperature) on city streets where I live. But if I go > 60mph on the freeway, I can sometimes get 4 miles per kWh. > > Peri > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" > To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" ; "ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org" < > ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: 28-Sep-15 1:31:45 PM > Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack? > > The debate should be about light or heavy vehicles and efficiency. If >> you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per mile. >> The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or any other >> of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give good range with >> a small pack. They all draw 200 or more wh per mile. The I3 is going in >> the right direction. It has a relatively small pack and is more efficient >> than all the other competitors.If however you have a light vehicle >> around a thousand pounds your range will be close to 350 miles with a 16kw >> battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD of about .16. With these >> specifications you don't have to have a big pack. It will charge in 2.5 >> hours with a 6.6kw charger. Efficiency and charging time should be the >> goal. Smaller the pack the quicker the charge. Also the packs will last >> longer as they are not stressed as much by carrying large weights. >> Engineering the right combination is what is needed. Not 85kw packs in >> 5000 pound cars...however they are very comfortable and useful as is and >> better than the ICE alternative. Lawrence Rhodes >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/dcb4a2f9/attachment.htm >> > >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150929/a3ec98fb/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
I think the key factor is the Cd of .16. While I think lighter vehicles are better for many reasons, it doesn't seem to make that much difference in efficiency unless you are spending most of your time on slow speed city streets. For example, my Leaf gets about 1.5 - 2.5 miles per kWh (depending on accessories and temperature) on city streets where I live. But if I go 60mph on the freeway, I can sometimes get 4 miles per kWh. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" ; "ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org" Sent: 28-Sep-15 1:31:45 PM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack? The debate should be about light or heavy vehicles and efficiency. If you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per mile. The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or any other of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give good range with a small pack. They all draw 200 or more wh per mile. The I3 is going in the right direction. It has a relatively small pack and is more efficient than all the other competitors.If however you have a light vehicle around a thousand pounds your range will be close to 350 miles with a 16kw battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD of about .16. With these specifications you don't have to have a big pack. It will charge in 2.5 hours with a 6.6kw charger. Efficiency and charging time should be the goal. Smaller the pack the quicker the charge. Also the packs will last longer as they are not stressed as much by carrying large weights. Engineering the right combination is what is needed. Not 85kw packs in 5000 pound cars...however they are very comfortable and useful as is and better than the ICE alternative. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/dcb4a2f9/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
The debate should be about light or heavy vehicles and efficiency. If you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per mile. The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or any other of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give good range with a small pack. They all draw 200 or more wh per mile. The I3 is going in the right direction. It has a relatively small pack and is more efficient than all the other competitors. If however you have a light vehicle around a thousand pounds your range will be close to 350 miles with a 16kw battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD of about .16. With these specifications you don't have to have a big pack. It will charge in 2.5 hours with a 6.6kw charger. Efficiency and charging time should be the goal. Smaller the pack the quicker the charge. Also the packs will last longer as they are not stressed as much by carrying large weights. Engineering the right combination is what is needed. Not 85kw packs in 5000 pound cars...however they are very comfortable and useful as is and better than the ICE alternative. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150928/dcb4a2f9/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Seattle-WA Amazon Electric-bi&tri-delivery-cycles> steep-expectations
'$5k Krause' custom wooden electric-cycle admired ts:35mph' 'KasetsartU.th e-tricycle Eco-taxi-service for getting around campus' http://www.geekwire.com/2015/life-as-an-amazon-bicycle-courier-steep-hills-and-even-steeper-expectations/ Life as an Amazon bicycle courier: Steep hills and even steeper expectations by Jacob Demmitt September 24, 2015 [images http://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/IMAG11911-1-e1443117724306.jpeg An Amazon delivery rider. (Photo courtesy IndyStealth) http://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Bikes-620x465.jpg These custom AmazonFresh delivery bikes were used by IndyStealth to deliver groceries for the company. (Photo courtesy IndyStealth) ] [image] An Amazon bicycle courier on the streets of Seattle. (GeekWire Photo, Jacob Demmitt) Amazon has a growing list of seemingly magical new delivery services, promising to bring household items, high-tech gadgets and even dinner to your door in less than an hour. Customers don’t see all the behind-the-scenes logistics required to make these deliveries happen, but people involved in the process say the reason it seems so impossibly great is that it is, in fact, almost impossible. Especially for the company’s fleet of bicycle couriers. Amazon has been in the spotlight recently for its unapologetically high standards for its workforce — standards that apply to everyone from software engineers in Seattle to warehouse workers across the country. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that those same expectations extend to the $15-per-hour bicycle couriers that the company uses to make deliveries for its Prime Now and AmazonFresh services. But for some of the couriers who have gone to work for the e-commerce giant, it has been a rude awakening. GeekWire has spoken with four current and past riders, as well as their managers and veterans of the courier industry. Many more riders declined to comment, but those who did talk said they’ve never experienced anything quite like Amazon. Orders are heavier than normal loads, and they require quicker delivery times and near-perfect execution, say the experienced couriers, some of whom did not want their names used because they still deliver packages for the company. Everything is computerized. Everything is tracked. Everything is analyzed for absolute efficiency. And whenever something goes wrong, there always has to be an explanation. Riders are assigned a numeric score that Amazon calls the “Perfect Delivery Rate,” or PDR, describing how well they meet expectations — similar to the systems the company uses to track warehouse workers. Show up at a delivery destination a little too early or late, and you’re going to get docked. Matt Fay, a Seattle rider who said he was fired after an argument with Amazon managers over what he called unfair allocation of tips, has been a courier for 16 years. He said the company’s standards for that ideal delivery are simply “physically impossible.” There are a lot of unknowns in the courier business — like rain and unmanned front desks inside buildings. Amazon’s system doesn’t account for any of that, Fay said. A rider for another courier contractor, who spoke on the condition of anonymity since he still delivers for Amazon, said some of the fastest couriers he knows have the lowest PDR scores, simply because they take the more challenging loads. He says a big part of the problem is that Amazon is bulldozing its way into courier services, but it doesn’t understand the industry it’s trying to disrupt or the quirks of the cities it’s expanding into. “Everywhere they’re losing money and everywhere they’re trying to cut costs by cutting staff,” he said. “Basically, they’re making the entire day a stress situation and then going back to management and asking why the Perfect Delivery Rate isn’t higher.” [image] AmazonFresh workers load a cart for delivery in Seattle. (GeekWire Photo, Jacob Demmitt.) Daniel Velazquez, another Seattle rider who lost his job when Amazon switched contractors, said he used to work the 3 a.m. until noon shift for AmazonFresh. He remembers one morning when the truck with all his 6 a.m. deliveries didn’t show up until 5:20 a.m. Not only did that leave him just 40 minutes to finish everything, but he had received 12 orders that day. Usually, he’s supposed to get eight for a two-hour window. “I had to do my best and then find out later they were asking why things were late,” Velazquez said. Some of the issues are just inherent to taking a job as a bike messenger. It’s always going to be challenging work, requiring couriers to rush around town. But problems arise when you combine those jobs with Amazon’s signature brand of perfection. An Amazon spokesman offered this comment when GeekWire reached out for this story: “With everything we do, safety is our number one priority. AmazonFresh and Prime Now bike messengers do a fantastic job for our customers and our customers love the service. The bike messengers typica
[EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?
http://www.torquenews.com/3618/big-electric-car-debate
The Big Electric Car Debate: Small Battery or Big Battery
By Douglas Stansfield 2015-09-21
[image
http://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/image-3618/dc_fast_charger_custom.jpg
Nissan DC fast Charger
]
The big debate for me in the Electric Vehicle world is the one for small
battery, big battery. Nobody may actually understand this debate but I’m
sure many do. The two sides in this debate are EVs with small batteries vs.
EVs with big batteries and which ones are better.
There are two schools of thought out there and over time one school of
thought might win out and the other will pass away. It’s difficult to tell
at the moment which one will prevail but I have my suspicions.
There are many EVs with small battery packs which rely heavily on DC fast
charging to take them on longer trips. The benefits of this school of
thought are that you do NOT have to lug around extra battery weight and
capacity that you will only use once in a while. This keeps the cars initial
purchase price low and in many cases can easily satisfy the USAs average
distances of 40 miles. This does however, limit you on your year’s vacation
trip that is 400 miles from your home. This group of EV pioneers has managed
to complete some crazy stories of nightmare DC fast charging ordeals and
very long trips indeed because of malfunctions, freak weather patterns and
overall neglect.
The Electric cars in this camp are the Mitsubishi iMiev, the Smart EV, the
Ford Focus EV and the Nissan Leaf EV.
The second EV big battery school of thought is currently sitting with Tesla.
Tesla has the most of any current EV offering and yet also has the highest
price tag. It does however, also boast of the lowest cost per watt of energy
storage. This makes the 260 miles range Model S has into an EV camel. It can
easily travel great distances because of the marrying of Tesla’s Fast
Charging network but if these Tesla owners only travel short distances they
wouldn’t need the extra battery capacity. I realize there are many other
reasons for wanting to own a Tesla but that isn’t what I’m talking about
here.
If the average US person drives only 40 miles a day or less, then a double
that range battery would satisfy a great deal of the populations needs
however that 400 mile vacation would be much more doable in the Tesla S but
the rest of the year it is just carrying around extra battery capacity for
no reason. You see my point.
As the EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) continues its roll out into
America, small battery packs will be much more easily accommodative of small
EV battery packs. Once the DC fast charging infrastructure is rolled out,
the less difficult it will be to take the small EV battery pack cars on
longer trips.
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[EVDL] EVLN: $35k Tesla-3> concept in 4/2016 & production in 2017
http://www.nseavoice.com/cars/tesla-model-3-where-art-thou-1002179.html
Tesla Model 3: Where Art Thou?
September 21, 2015
[image
http://www.nseavoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/tesla-model-3.jpg
tesla model 3
]
Tesla Motors has been making history in the automotive industry after they
released the Model S. In less than a month from now, the successful streak
is going to continue with the arrival of the company’s first EV SUV, the
Model X.
Even so, all the excitement is actually with the Model 3 as the vehicle is
going to be the cheapest EV car to ever get produced by Tesla. In detail,
the Model 3 is expected to be the best and most affordable EV car yet. Tesla
has been teasing that the vehicle is going to retail at $35,000.
While it all sounds exciting, nobody has got a clue on when the Model 3 will
actually be ready for a release. That is until today when Tesla teased that
the Model 3 will get its concept model unveiled somewhere in March next year
and the car will head into production in 2017.
When the Model 3 arrives, it is expected to be the biggest threat to
petro-powered cars worldwide. It will be interesting how the other carmakers
respond to the threat of the Model 3.
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tesla model 3
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[EVDL] EVLN: 9000km Tesla-S journey through Queensland.au w/o superEVSE
http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/how-a-tesla-travelled-9000kms-through-queensland-without-super-charger-network-part-2/ A Tesla’s 9,000kms journey through Queensland without super-charger network – Part 2 By Marc Talloen September 22, 2015 [images http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_94028_pm.jpg Photosynthesis! For the sake of future generations, humans are better off relying less on fossil fuels and more on renewable energy. Plants give us an inspiring example. http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_94845_pm.jpg (map) http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_95026_pm.jpg Ayr showgrounds (left) Five Star restaurant and office facilities (right) http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_95213_pm.jpg (Tesla-S towing PV-EVSE trailer) http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_95514_pm.jpg (2 Tesla-S EVs in garage) http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_95842_pm.jpg (Garage EVSE installation, Tesla-S on the road) http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_100406_pm.jpg (map) http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_100527_pm.jpg (charging at private residences) http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_100939_pm.jpg (Beaches and hinterland) http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/rsz_screen_shot_2015-09-22_at_103014_pm.jpg ] Last week, in the first part of the series [ http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/how-a-tesla-travelled-9000kms-through-queensland-without-super-charger-network/ ], Marc Talloen began his story about how a Tesla Model S travelled 9,000kms through regional Queensland without a super-charger network. This is the second part of the series. Area 3: From Rockhampton to Ayr, Townsville and Ingham: Area 3 was more like a transit area to reach our next holiday place. When driving from Proserpine to Bowen and Townsville I realised how the drought had affected this area . In the interest of farming and employment wouldn’t it be feasible to exploit the current competitiveness of renewable energy to pump more water via extra pipelines from areas such as the Cassowary Coast to farming areas that are frequently stricken by drought? Higher points along the pipeline may have potential for energy buffering with dams. From technological viewpoint it’s absolutely feasible. The Ayr showground (below) may have great potential for the QLD Electric Highway plan. It has 2 transformers of 500 kVA each, powerful enough to charge multiple EVs simultaneously. Behind the car (above left) you can see my favourite local 5 star restaurant and luxurious office facilities with scenic outlook (photo right). Behind it to the right there is a power cabin and transformers. I enjoyed “Ecotourism” at the bathrooms: creepy fauna showing off their survival skills hiding in the latrines’ crevices and sending shivers down your spine with their surprising screams while you’re in full action! At my first trip North I only had a small battery top-up in Ayr given that I was expected to charge at Horan & Bird Company, designer / installer of PV systems in Townsville. However, “Murphy’s law” spoiled that idea as contrary to our expectations we didn’t find a 3 phase power socket but only one ChargePoint charger and without a J1172 cable adapter charging was impossible! An alternative solution shown below was demoed for fun but at sunset time it definitely lacked the grunt to charge a Tesla MS. Horan & Bird staff frantically looked for some other building in the area with a 3 phase 5 pin socket but the next place we went to only had a 3 phase 4 pin socket. Talking to some neighbours in the industrial zone we unbelievably stumbled (good karma?) upon someone who knew the owner of the only Tesla MS in Townsville who wholeheartedly offered me to charge at his place so I could continue my trip North towards Innisfail and Cairns. Further north from Townsville the scenery slowly started to look greener with the Paluma Range National Park bordering the highway. We made a short stop at Balgal Beach for the kids to release the nerves. On the return trip we stayed overnight in Ingham where we charged the car at Lathinen Electrical, local designer / installer of solar energy systems. As you can see below, Daniel quickly modified the 3 phase power socket to serve our needs. Lathinen Electrical is also very motivated to install a Tesla Destination Charger to help out Tesla drivers. [image] Breaking out at Balgal Beach (left) Hinchinbrook Island outlook (right) From Ingham we visited Cardwell Beach and made a trip to the magnificent Wallaman Waterfall, more than 50km inland, partly on unseal
