The Leaf is a great car overall but for stop & go city driving, the regen often cuts out when braking and switches to mechanical - sometimes I can feel the switchover. Even if there was no regen, an earlier thread on this forum illustrated that regen probably only adds about 5% to the miles / kWh. Maybe 10% if you're really special :)

Regardless, it's very apparent that cruising at 40mph gives excellent miles / kWH -- somewhere around 5+ and even at 60mph up to 4. I never get that on city blocks where I'm stopping and starting and going up and down steep hills. I always drive in "B" (stronger regen) mode, not "D" mode.

By the way, minor point: it doesn't take a small vehicle to have a low Cd. The Boeing 747 has a Cd = .031. That's .031, not .31 :)


------ Original Message ------
From: "Mike Nickerson" <>
To: "Peri Hartman" <>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <>
Sent: 28-Sep-15 5:13:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?

I think it is key to remember, though, that a Cd of 0.16 is deep into concept car territory. Most small cars are 0.28-0.32. The Toyota Prius is 0.25. The Tesla Model S is 0.24. There isn't much under 0.24 that isn't concept or experimental (except the EV1 at 0.195).

I'm surprised the Leaf doesn't do better in the city. Does it brake aggressively enough with regeneration so you don't need the friction brakes much? I have to drive the Tesla very aggressively to get less than 3 miles per kWh. On a bad day, I get around 300 Wh per mile. On a careful day, I can get around 230-250 Wh per mile. However, due to aggressive regeneration, it gets almost everything back into the battery. I hardly use the friction brakes.


On September 28, 2015 2:39:45 PM MDT, Peri Hartman via EV <> wrote:
I think the key factor is the Cd of .16.   While I think lighter
vehicles are better for many reasons, it doesn't seem to make that much

difference in efficiency unless you are spending most of your time on
slow speed city streets.

For example, my Leaf gets about 1.5 - 2.5 miles per kWh (depending on
accessories and temperature) on city streets where I live. But if I go

60mph on the freeway, I can sometimes get 4 miles per kWh.


------ Original Message ------
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" <>
To: "" <>;
Sent: 28-Sep-15 1:31:45 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery

The debate should be about  light or heavy vehicles and efficiency.
you have an efficient vehicle that is light you might draw 55wh per
mile. The typical heavy conversion like the I3 , Leaf, Rav4, IMEV, or

any other of the currently available EV's are just too heavy to give
good range with a small pack.  They all draw 200 or more wh per mile.

The I3 is going in the right direction.  It has a relatively small
and is more efficient than all the other competitors.    If however
have a light vehicle around a thousand pounds your range will be close

to 350 miles with a 16kw battery pack. The vehicle needs to have a CD

of about .16.  With these specifications you don't have to have a big
pack.  It will charge in 2.5 hours with a 6.6kw charger.  Efficiency
and charging time should be the goal.  Smaller the pack the quicker
charge.  Also the packs will last longer as they are not stressed as
much by carrying large weights.  Engineering the right combination is
what is needed.  Not 85kw packs in 5000 pound cars...however they are
very comfortable and useful as is and better than the ICE alternative.

Lawrence Rhodes
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