Re: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor?
Is there any reason you couldn't build a simple series-parallel stepped contactor controller? A 3-step is easy; you divide the battery in two and connect the halves either in series or parallel. A series resistor provides a "creeper" speed for starting out. Some commercial EVs (Citicar/Comuta- Car/Comuta-Van, Lectric Leopard, Henny Kilowatt, probably others) have used this scheme. If you use a brushed DC motor with a separate field, you can get finer speed control by varying field current too. Since in a sep-ex motor the field uses much less current than the armature, a field controller is easier to build. It could even be a rheostat. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor?
Reading the rules, it looks like they are pretty serious about having you design and build your own controller: "The motor controller MUST be purpose-built for the Shell Eco-marathon. Modifications to purchased motor controllers or the use of purchased motor controller evaluation kits are not acceptable. Motor controllers built from sub-components such as single-board computers, power stages, etc. are encouraged. If a motor controller is built incorporating one or more single printed circuit boards (PCBs), the text "SEM" needs to be included in the mask of the PCB etching. " Why they want you to do this, I have no idea, but they make the rules. If you want to compete in the Shell Eco-marathon, you must follow their rules. A DC controller is the simplest, but will it provide the efficiency to win this competition? It would get you down the road, but it is not the best technology and it is not all that much harder to make the leap into a brushless drive. You have to build some kind of electronics either way. You might as well build something competitive. A "brushless DC" controller is probably the simplest AC controller to design and build. Lots of examples on line. Brushless DC is what most bicycle drives run. Not all that difficult to build by copying some on-line example and copying the code that runs it. You can use commercial power stages, which is the hardest part. You can buy an Arduino kit, with motor, power stage, power caps, etc. Get it running. Then make your own goofy printed circuit board that connects the Arduino computer module to the power stage, battery, power caps, etc. and you have 100% satisfied the rules. (Doesn't require you to write the code, thank goodness.) Here is an example that is not too bad to follow: http://www.instructables.com/id/BLDC-Motor-Control-with-Arduino-salvaged-HD-motor/ You would likely have to scale up the power stage, but that shouldn't be too difficult. You can likely get one of the many printed circuit board houses to take mercy on your team and coach you through the process of making a PCB. Bill D. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160302/b6e99521/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Leaf on a peg board.
Here's even better... 2 folks have independently created their own inverters for the Leaf motor, and one is installed in CRX. I can't to see what kind of power they are able to make. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30=63982=75 Regards, Stephen On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > But can it take me to the grocery store? > > Very cool video! > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Feb 25, 2016, at 8:47 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > wrote: > > > > Looks like the Leaf can be modified like any other car. This brings > gear head to a new level. Lawrence Rhodes > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McvDjpdcBw0 > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ------ next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160302/27e0165f/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor?
Gary Neal via EV wrote: I'm advising a group competing in the Shell Ecomarathon competition (http://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/shell-ecomarathon/americas.html) We previously powered our vehicle with a 36V, brushless DC hub motor designed for bicycles. The problem is Shell requires a motor controller custom designed and built by the students (even though you can buy these controller off the shelf for like $20). Because we're mainly a bunch of mechanical engineers, our attempts at designing and building that brushless controller have been less than successful. First thought... are you sure the rules literally require you to build your own controller? That's a peculiar rule. No other similar race I'm aware of has made such a requirement (Tour de Sol, Electrathon, Solar Raycers, etc.) Second thought... Buy a commercial controller, take it apart, and put it back together. Voila; the students "built" their own controller. For this year, we want to use a 36V "brushed" dc motor to make this custom controller much easier. Ideally, a 36V brushed hub motor in the 500W-1,000W power range would be best as it would be nearly a drop in mechanical replacement. Problem is, we can't find such a motor. Look for one of Cedric Lynch's motors (Lynch, Lemco, Etek, Agni, etc.) These are brushed PM DC motors, but with efficiencies well into the 90% range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_motor -- Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does your thinking. -- anonymous -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor?
The EV Global has a unique frame design: http://www.evalbum.com/type/EVGL The seat post is held by a clamp where the rear fork and the top tube come together, there is not really a vertical tube in front of the rear wheel... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 3:26 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor? On 03/02/2016 05:14 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > Gary, > I have a spare unused complete rear wheel with brushed hub motor from EV > Global, which was a Lee Iacocca design from 1998 or thereabouts. > This is the first version of their e-Bikes so it was used in a > 24V bike, later bikes use 36V but I do not know if the motor is the same > or upgraded for 36V, it might well be the same motor. > I have run the same motor (I have a 24V EV Global that I use for all my > riding) on a 30V Lithium pack and it is very powerful, it will lift the > front wheel for a short moment when applying full power from stop. > > I wonder if that might be the same or related to the Th!nk ebike sold by Ford? The one I've seen has a 24v lead battery mounted almost vertically in front of the rear wheel. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor?
On 03/02/2016 05:14 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: Gary, I have a spare unused complete rear wheel with brushed hub motor from EV Global, which was a Lee Iacocca design from 1998 or thereabouts. This is the first version of their e-Bikes so it was used in a 24V bike, later bikes use 36V but I do not know if the motor is the same or upgraded for 36V, it might well be the same motor. I have run the same motor (I have a 24V EV Global that I use for all my riding) on a 30V Lithium pack and it is very powerful, it will lift the front wheel for a short moment when applying full power from stop. I wonder if that might be the same or related to the Th!nk ebike sold by Ford? The one I've seen has a 24v lead battery mounted almost vertically in front of the rear wheel. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor?
Gary, I have a spare unused complete rear wheel with brushed hub motor from EV Global, which was a Lee Iacocca design from 1998 or thereabouts. This is the first version of their e-Bikes so it was used in a 24V bike, later bikes use 36V but I do not know if the motor is the same or upgraded for 36V, it might well be the same motor. I have run the same motor (I have a 24V EV Global that I use for all my riding) on a 30V Lithium pack and it is very powerful, it will lift the front wheel for a short moment when applying full power from stop. I do not know the rating of the motor itself, but it definitely is at least 400W continuous and higher peak power. The official specs from 1999 mention 400W motor: https://web.archive.org/web/2229083229/http://www.ebike.com/standard html.html The whole bike is designed for quality, it is very rugged and even has a VIN so I am expecting that the motor is also high quality and can withstand some torture but you'd need to ask anyone more knowledged about this particular bike to know what it can do (or test it while monitoring the motor winding and brush temp) I do not need the spare since the original rear wheel has been flawless in the 5 years that I have been riding it (I bought the bike with less than 200 mi after it sat 12 years in a garage) and later bought the unused wheel from someone who put a brushless wheel in their EV Global, since the brushed motor is noisy, not conducive to riding trails if you want to see wildlife. I always ride the bike without turning it on, only using the battery to run the powerful head- and tail lights. Make me an offer - local pickup is preferred (I am in Silicon Valley) but I can ship. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Gary Neal via EV Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 1:42 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor? I'm advising a group competing in the Shell Ecomarathon competition (http://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/shell-ecomarathon/americas.h tml) . We previously powered our vehicle with a 36V, brushless DC hub motor designed for bicycles. The problem is Shell requires a motor controller custom designed and built by the students (even though you can buy these controller off the shelf for like $20). Because we're mainly a bunch of mechanical engineers, our attempts at designing and building that brushless controller have been.less than successful. For this year, we want to use a 36V "brushed" dc motor to make this custom controller much easier. Ideally, a 36V brushed hub motor in the 500W-1,000W power range would be best as it would be nearly a drop in mechanical replacement. Problem is, we can't find such a motor. Does anyone have any suggestions of commercial motors that might fit that need? If not, we'll be switching to a brushed motor and a chain/sprocket drive. Thanks, Gary -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160302/42c7 c7e4/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Brushed bicycle hub motor?
I'm advising a group competing in the Shell Ecomarathon competition (http://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/shell-ecomarathon/americas.html) . We previously powered our vehicle with a 36V, brushless DC hub motor designed for bicycles. The problem is Shell requires a motor controller custom designed and built by the students (even though you can buy these controller off the shelf for like $20). Because we're mainly a bunch of mechanical engineers, our attempts at designing and building that brushless controller have been.less than successful. For this year, we want to use a 36V "brushed" dc motor to make this custom controller much easier. Ideally, a 36V brushed hub motor in the 500W-1,000W power range would be best as it would be nearly a drop in mechanical replacement. Problem is, we can't find such a motor. Does anyone have any suggestions of commercial motors that might fit that need? If not, we'll be switching to a brushed motor and a chain/sprocket drive. Thanks, Gary -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160302/42c7c7e4/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Batteries are King (A Gigafactory Challenge)
And using non-paying customers as an excuse is old, because the entire loan industry deals with that, that is why there is such a thing as a repo-man. It is not something new for car battery packs. If your car can get towed for standing where it should not then there is no problem to tow your car for being behind on the battery payment. Practically there is a difference of course, and how to detect whether a payment is due is an issue but not a problem, I can easily give you several solutions that will allow non-intrusive, even remote detectoin of the status of your battery pack so a pickup of your car can be scheduled if you fail to pay after a normal period of contact with you and trying to arrange a solution. One solution is as simple as the car checking a digitally signed electronic key from the battery pack. If no new key gets uploaded to the pack after you fail to pay, the key from the previous month will expire (with some grace period) and the check of the key will fail so the car will refuse to start. The location of the disabled car will be known from its normal telemetry. There are other solutions where the battery pack has its own radio beacon that can be received from some distance. You can even think about a Lojack type system to be able to recover a "misplaced" battery pack. Again, there is nothing new that needs to be invented to make a continuous payment system or a pay-as-you-go system possible for EV packs. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross via EV Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 11:17 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Lee Hart Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Batteries are King (A Gigafactory Challenge) Actually, Tesla designed the S and presumably X and 3 for quick swapping (to get around an ill-advised CA law). There is a video of them driving on and swapping 2 S's automatically in the time it takes to put gas in one Nissan ICE. The doesn't make them interchangeable, but it's not nothing. On Mar 2, 2016 1:13 PM, "Lee Hart via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > >> I know it's been looked at in more recent years, but the actual >> reasons for no one implementing such a scheme has, to me, been lost >> in the noise. >> > > Actually, battery leasing is very common for commercial and industrial EVs > (fork lifts, golf carts, etc.) Fleet operators like to control costs, and > hate surprises and down-time. Leasing gives them a dependable monthly cost, > no matter what happens. > > The company providing the batteries also likes it. They have a big > dependable customer, who pays the bills (or is easy to find and collect > from if they don't). The batteries are highly standardized. The vehicles > are built for easy battery swaps and maintenance and swaps. There are often > a large number of identical packs at the same location. All this makes > their job easier. > > The situation is a lot more difficult for individual consumer EVs. There > are no standard packs. The vehicles aren't built to allow fast battery > swaps. Customers are widely scattered. And, it's going to be harder to > collect from customers who don't pay. > > There's one more factor. Many consumers abuse rental property. "Hey, it's > a rental -- I can wreck it, because it's not mine." > > On the other side, I can also see fast-buck fear-mongers that will sell > people worthless battery leases or maintenance agreements. They are going > to give consumer battery leasing a bad reputation. > > -- > Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does > your thinking. -- anonymous > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160302/5777 1c49/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Batteries are King (A Gigafactory Challenge)
Actually, Tesla designed the S and presumably X and 3 for quick swapping (to get around an ill-advised CA law). There is a video of them driving on and swapping 2 S's automatically in the time it takes to put gas in one Nissan ICE. The doesn't make them interchangeable, but it's not nothing. On Mar 2, 2016 1:13 PM, "Lee Hart via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > >> I know it's been looked at in more recent years, but the actual >> reasons for no one implementing such a scheme has, to me, been lost >> in the noise. >> > > Actually, battery leasing is very common for commercial and industrial EVs > (fork lifts, golf carts, etc.) Fleet operators like to control costs, and > hate surprises and down-time. Leasing gives them a dependable monthly cost, > no matter what happens. > > The company providing the batteries also likes it. They have a big > dependable customer, who pays the bills (or is easy to find and collect > from if they don't). The batteries are highly standardized. The vehicles > are built for easy battery swaps and maintenance and swaps. There are often > a large number of identical packs at the same location. All this makes > their job easier. > > The situation is a lot more difficult for individual consumer EVs. There > are no standard packs. The vehicles aren't built to allow fast battery > swaps. Customers are widely scattered. And, it's going to be harder to > collect from customers who don't pay. > > There's one more factor. Many consumers abuse rental property. "Hey, it's > a rental -- I can wreck it, because it's not mine." > > On the other side, I can also see fast-buck fear-mongers that will sell > people worthless battery leases or maintenance agreements. They are going > to give consumer battery leasing a bad reputation. > > -- > Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does > your thinking. -- anonymous > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160302/57771c49/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Batteries are King (A Gigafactory Challenge)
Another approach is where you own the equipment but don't pay upfront. We already know that type, it is called a car loan. It avoids the abuse but does not take away the questions about reliability and future investments in replacement packs, even though I have seen "insurance" variants that will guarantee against defects in the pack and replace it if it fails, so it seems a lot is already in place, though I have never taken out a car loan so I have no idea how easy or painful that process is. I know my Credit Union advertises with car loans and my other dealings with them are pleasant, so I am guessing that if you walk into a dealership with a check from your Credit Union (or bank) that the dealer may not be happy, but that the process of buying and financing the car should be smooth (since you organised the financing upfront). I heard that the best thing to have a no-hassle car buying experience is also to negotiate the car price upfront (you call them and say that you want to buy this exact model, if they want to get your business, they need to give you the lowest price including everything and when you come you will have a check with the exact amount made out, if they re-neg or add any fee then you will walk out and not come back) but since I never bought a car from a dealer, I have not personally verified that approach. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2016 10:16 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Batteries are King (A Gigafactory Challenge) Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > I know it's been looked at in more recent years, but the actual > reasons for no one implementing such a scheme has, to me, been lost > in the noise. Actually, battery leasing is very common for commercial and industrial EVs (fork lifts, golf carts, etc.) Fleet operators like to control costs, and hate surprises and down-time. Leasing gives them a dependable monthly cost, no matter what happens. The company providing the batteries also likes it. They have a big dependable customer, who pays the bills (or is easy to find and collect from if they don't). The batteries are highly standardized. The vehicles are built for easy battery swaps and maintenance and swaps. There are often a large number of identical packs at the same location. All this makes their job easier. The situation is a lot more difficult for individual consumer EVs. There are no standard packs. The vehicles aren't built to allow fast battery swaps. Customers are widely scattered. And, it's going to be harder to collect from customers who don't pay. There's one more factor. Many consumers abuse rental property. "Hey, it's a rental -- I can wreck it, because it's not mine." On the other side, I can also see fast-buck fear-mongers that will sell people worthless battery leases or maintenance agreements. They are going to give consumer battery leasing a bad reputation. -- Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does your thinking. -- anonymous -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Batteries are King (A Gigafactory Challenge)
Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: I know it's been looked at in more recent years, but the actual reasons for no one implementing such a scheme has, to me, been lost in the noise. Actually, battery leasing is very common for commercial and industrial EVs (fork lifts, golf carts, etc.) Fleet operators like to control costs, and hate surprises and down-time. Leasing gives them a dependable monthly cost, no matter what happens. The company providing the batteries also likes it. They have a big dependable customer, who pays the bills (or is easy to find and collect from if they don't). The batteries are highly standardized. The vehicles are built for easy battery swaps and maintenance and swaps. There are often a large number of identical packs at the same location. All this makes their job easier. The situation is a lot more difficult for individual consumer EVs. There are no standard packs. The vehicles aren't built to allow fast battery swaps. Customers are widely scattered. And, it's going to be harder to collect from customers who don't pay. There's one more factor. Many consumers abuse rental property. "Hey, it's a rental -- I can wreck it, because it's not mine." On the other side, I can also see fast-buck fear-mongers that will sell people worthless battery leases or maintenance agreements. They are going to give consumer battery leasing a bad reputation. -- Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does your thinking. -- anonymous -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Proposed Tesla e-motorcycle concept by designer Serrano
Give me a flippin' break. *FAR* too "out there" to have a prayer of
reasonable sales figures. Hub center steering has been tried in the
marketplace and got few nibbles. Motorcyclists are a conservative lot,
even those who like the techy end of the spectrum.
I maintain that if Tesla wants to build a motorcycle, they could merely
re-start production of the 'Mission R:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/06/04/mission-motorcycles-mission-r-and-rs-electric-superbikes-first-look-review-photos/
The company folded for reasons not connected with the goodness of the
bike. It is a gentlemens' express, so very much in keeping with the Tesla
demographic. It's a bike that deserves to be back on the market, and Tesla
could do it.
Chris
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 4:09 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://paultan.org/2016/02/25/proposed-tesla-e-bike-design-concept-by-serrano/
> Proposed Tesla e-Bike design concept by Serrano
> 25 February 2016 Mohan K Ramanujam
>
> [image
> http://s2.paultan.org/image/2016/02/Tesla-e-Bike-concept-motorcycle-2.jpg
> concept e-motorcycle
> ]
>
> Italian designer Antonio Serrano has put up a set of renderings, playing a
> “what-if?” game of Tesla manufacturing an electric motorcycle. This design
> concept would be made out of carbon fiber, aluminium, and high-strength
> plastic for lightness and strength.
>
> Dubbed the “Tesla e-Bike” by Serrano, the concept calls for hub-center
> steering, an engineering design last seen in public on the Bimota Tesi and
> Yamaha GTS 1000 over 20 years ago. An OLED dashboard display shows all
> essential information required in a high-tech, minimalistic fashion.
>
> “Tesla e-Bike is a conceptual project based on a vision what if Tesla
> Motors
> manufactured an electric motorcycle. Just like Tesla principles, this
> e-bike
> is high-tech, fast, efficient, and ecological,” says Serrano. No word on
> whether Elon Musk might be interested in this other-worldy design, but it
> certainly looks sleek and efficient.
> [© 2016 Driven Communication]
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
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> View this message in context:
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> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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[EVDL] EVLN: AUD32k e-Tuk-tuks take tourists on a loop of the Land of Oz
http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinations/nz/77235562/tuktuks-taking-to-the-streets-of-wellington
Tuk-tuks taking to the streets of Wellington video
February 25 2016 SIOBHAN DOWNES
[video flash / ROBERT KITCHIN/FAIRFAX NZ
Jeremy Marr and his brother Glen Varcoe have started a new business in
Wellington with a fleet of tuk-tuks.
image / TukTuksNZ/FACEBOOK
http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/9/z/t/0/e/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.19zfca.png/1456345544021.jpg
The tuk-tuks will take tourists on a loop of Wellington with eight stops,
including the Beehive
]
They are most commonly seen weaving through traffic in Thailand, but a fleet
of tuk-tuks will soon be zipping its way through the streets of Wellington
[.au].
New Zealand's first electric tuk-tuks will take tourists on a loop of the
capital's major attractions, such as Te Papa and Pukeahu National War
Memorial Park.
Tuk-tuks are three-wheeled motorised vehicles, used as taxis in many parts
of Asia.
Jeremy Marr came up with the idea to bring them to Wellington when he and
his cousin were looking at options for a coffee cart business, and came
across tuk-tuks being used as food trucks in Melbourne.
They bought a tuk-tuk, and got the coffee cart up and running. But Marr
decided to take the venture even further.
"I decided, actually, these would be awesome to take people around in. I
just thought they'd be a great fit for Welly."
Marr and his brother, Glen Varcoe, purchased four more tuk-tuks - one
three-seater and three six-seaters - to create a passenger fleet they have
named the Tuk Tuk Cartel.
The name "cartel" was chosen because Marr and Varcoe only met for the first
time six years ago, as Marr was adopted at birth.
"We wanted to get that idea of brotherhood and family across," Varcoe said.
The tuk-tuks were manufactured in Bangkok by a company called the Tuk Tuk
Factory, and cost about $32,000 each once they had been shipped to New
Zealand.
Marr said they were looking at a price point of $20 to $35 for passenger
tickets, with a scenic route option, or a multi-stop ticket that could be
used over 24 hours.
The fully electric, zero emission tuk-tuks would be charged at Te Papa,
which was installing four charging stations especially for them.
Each tuk-tuk has a weather cover which can be removed if passengers want to
enjoy the feel of the famous Wellington wind whipping through their hair.
Marr said they were hoping to launch in the next few weeks, once they had
hired enough drivers and completed the classification process with the New
Zealand Transport Agency.
"They're not sure how to classify us... we're the first tuk-tuks in New
Zealand."
If the tuk-tuks were successful in Wellington, they would look at expanding,
Marr said.
Later this year they hoped to set up in the Hawke's Bay, where Varcoe is
based, offering wine and art deco tuk-tuk tours.
The tuk-tuks could also be hired out for weddings and other events.
Marr said he hoped his tuk-tuks would eventually be seen alongside Te Papa
and the Cable Car as one of Wellington's "must-do" attractions.
"Since we've been driving these around people film you, they yell at you,
they wave, they jeer," he said.
"It just brings a smile to people's faces."
[© 2016 Fairfax New Zealand]
...
https://www.facebook.com/TukTukFactory
Tuk Tuk Factory
https://www.tuktukfactory.com
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[EVDL] EVLN: Unbalanced Bolt EV sales-demographics in Canada
'Ontario.ca is now Canada’s California'
% Depending on curency exchange rates when the GM Bolt EV goes on sale, it
may end up cheaper for U.S. Amercians to buy it in Canada, or Canadians to
buy it in the U.S. %
http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-ev-looks-to-be-priced-north-of-46500-in-canada-rebates-up-to-14000-regionally/
Chevrolet Bolt EV Looks To Be Priced North Of $46,500 In Canada, Rebates Up
To $14,000 Regionally
[20160226] Jay Cole
[images
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/chevrolet-bolt-ev-CAIS-2016-101-750x495.jpg
Chevrolet Bolt EV In Toronto For The Canadian International Auto Show
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/chevrolet-bolt-ev-CAIS-2016-8-350x262.jpg
2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV To Receive $14,000 Rebate In Ontario
At least $46,500
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/mto-ontario-rebates-plug-ins-750x436.jpg
List Of Eligible Current GM Vehicles For Plug-In Rebates In Ontario, Canada
(via MTO)
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/chevrolet-bolt-ev-CAIS-2016-4-350x283.jpg
2017 Chevrolet Bolt In Toronto Last Week
]
While General Motors has stated that the upcoming 200 mile, 2017 Chevrolet
Bolt EV will be priced from $37,500 in the United States, an odd set of
circumstances has revealed it will be a bit more in Canada.
And while the recent breakdown of the Canada dollar ($1.355 CAD = 1 US
Dollar at time of press …which is actually a decent improvement over the
past several weeks) means that is only equal to about ~$34,200 in US funds
(a relative steal), to Canadians, that is still a lot of money, as their
dollar was close to par just the summer before last.
The pricing information came to us indirectly via a Chevrolet representative
at the Canadian International Auto Show last week, as we asked him to walk
us through Ontario’s newly augmented rebate plan as it relates to GM’s
electrified vehicles.
“The MTO has said the 2017 Chevrolet Volt [pih], now qualifies for $11,877
thanks to an additional seat. The Spark EV only get $9,000 because of its
smaller battery, and the all-new Chevrolet Bolt EV is the first to get the
full incentive – $14,000 because of its battery and 5th seat.”
The new incentive program in Ontario increased rebates on plug-in cars from
$5,000-$8,500 to a new maximum of $14,000.
To learn how the program breaks down the criteria to arrive at a rebate
amount, click here [
http://insideevs.com/ontario-canada-boosts-electric-vehicle-incentive-program-up-to-1/
], but there is two pricing caveats that reveal minimum Bolt EV pricing:
Vehicles with a starting MSRP between $75,000 and $150,000 are only eligible
for $3,000 (we will call this the “Tesla rule”) and,
“Purchase incentives are not to exceed 30% of the MSRP.”
With a confirmed $14,000 rebate for the Bolt EV via the GM rep, that means
the MSRP must be higher than $46,500 to fulfill the criteria of a 30% max
rebate threshold.
For Ontarians the high pricing is still fairly inconsequential, as the Bolt
EV will still be an accessible all-electric vehicle inside a conventional 36
month lease … perhaps ~$450 a month factoring in the government cash.
However with no federal plug-in incentive program, and no other province
offering near the same rebate as Ontario (Quebec – $8,000, British Columbia
– $5,000), with the other provinces essentially having none at all, the Bolt
EV looks to be headed for some very unbalanced sales demographics in Canada.
In other words, Ontario is now America’s California.
Doing some napkin-back math, leases in Quebec will likely be around a
minimum ~$625/month , BC ~$700/month…with the rest of Canada saddled with a
nearly ~$900 monthly payment.
[© 2016 Inside EVs]
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[EVDL] EVLN: California Will Spend $9M on West Coast Electric Highway
http://gas2.org/2016/02/26/california-will-spend-9-million-to-complete-west-coast-electric-highway/
California Will Spend $9 Million To Complete West Coast Electric Highway
February 26th, 2016 Steve Hanley
[image
http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/West-Coast-Electric-Highway.jpg
(maps> primary & secondary routes)
]
The California Energy Commission has awarded nearly $9 million to 4
companies to complete the West Coast Electric Highway. The project is
intended to make it possible to drive an electric car from Vancouver to the
Baja peninsular. The new funding — $8,875,457, to be exact — will be used to
create DC fast-charging stations along Interstate 5, State Route 99, and
Highway 101, according to EV Obsession.
42% of the money will go to ChargePoint ($3,739,615). EV Connect will get
21% of the money ($1,843,179). NRG EV Services will get 19% ($1,659,928) and
Recargo will get 18% ($1,632,735). The request for proposals for the work
went out last July and resulted in 35 proposals in all. The solicitation
defined 7 primary areas for the work to be done and 2 secondary segments.
For the primary sectors of the West Coast Electric Highway, each charging
location must have at least one CHAdeMO fast charger, one SAE CCS Fast
Charger and one J1772-compliant Level 2 charger. Fast chargers are not
required for secondary segments, but proposals that included them received
priority in the bidding process.
Each ChargePoint location will include a 50 kW Express DC fast charging
station equipped with both SAE Combo and CHAdeMO connectors as well as Level
2 charging stations, according to Charged EVs. ChargePoints’ part of the
project will also include two showcase sites with scalable intelligent
energy storage management systems and a solar generation system that can
charge the stationary storage and/or export power to the grid.
“The West Coast Electric Highway is key to expanding access to
infrastructure, especially in rural, disadvantaged communities, to drive EV
adoption,” said Pasquale Romano, ChargePoint CEO. “This project will support
EV drivers in their daily travel and give drivers range confidence for
longer distance travel.”
Fast charging is vital for motorists traveling long distances away from
home. Level 2 chargers can only add about 15 miles of range for every hour
of charging, but a fast charger can usually restore a depleted battery to
80% of its capacity in a hour or less. Fast charging is considered a vital
part of convincing mainstream drivers to consider driving an electric or
plug-in hybrid car.
Projects like this are much easier to put in place on the west coast, which
has only three states from north to south as opposed to the 13 states that
line the eastern seaboard. Getting cooperation among all those political
jurisdictions is like getting Chris Christie to lose weight — not
impossible, but very, very difficult.
[© gas2.org]
...
http://evobsession.com/california-energy-commission-awards-8-9-million-to-4-companies-for-development-of-west-coast-electric-highway/
California Energy Commission Awards $8.9 Million To 4 Companies For
Development Of West Coast Electric Highway
February 23rd, 2016
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[EVDL] EVLN: Proposed Tesla e-motorcycle concept by designer Serrano
http://paultan.org/2016/02/25/proposed-tesla-e-bike-design-concept-by-serrano/
Proposed Tesla e-Bike design concept by Serrano
25 February 2016 Mohan K Ramanujam
[image
http://s2.paultan.org/image/2016/02/Tesla-e-Bike-concept-motorcycle-2.jpg
concept e-motorcycle
]
Italian designer Antonio Serrano has put up a set of renderings, playing a
“what-if?” game of Tesla manufacturing an electric motorcycle. This design
concept would be made out of carbon fiber, aluminium, and high-strength
plastic for lightness and strength.
Dubbed the “Tesla e-Bike” by Serrano, the concept calls for hub-center
steering, an engineering design last seen in public on the Bimota Tesi and
Yamaha GTS 1000 over 20 years ago. An OLED dashboard display shows all
essential information required in a high-tech, minimalistic fashion.
“Tesla e-Bike is a conceptual project based on a vision what if Tesla Motors
manufactured an electric motorcycle. Just like Tesla principles, this e-bike
is high-tech, fast, efficient, and ecological,” says Serrano. No word on
whether Elon Musk might be interested in this other-worldy design, but it
certainly looks sleek and efficient.
[© 2016 Driven Communication]
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http://evdl.org/evln/
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[EVDL] Your phone will be your EV's key
http://www.wisn.com/money/your-phone-could-soon-be-your-car-key/38131156
Your phone could soon be your car key
Feb 23, 2016
[image / CNN
http://www.wisn.com/image/view/-/38143286/medRes/2/-/maxh/460/maxw/620/-/l7r78oz/-/Volvo-smartphone-car-starter.jpg
]
Volvo looks at smartphone app to start car
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) —Get ready to throw away your car key.
Volvo is experimenting with letting drivers use nothing more than a
smartphone app to start their cars.
The app, which is basically a "digital key," will let a driver open the
door, get in, and start the car without touching the phone. Like a remote
control key fob, which is widely available on new cars today, the phone can
stay in the driver's purse or pocket. Proximity sensors will detect when the
phone is near the car or inside it, allowing the doors to open and the
engine to start.
Beginning in 2017, the "digital key technology" will be available as a small
pilot project in Sweden and, maybe later, the United States. The plan is to
make the option more widely available after that, a Volvo spokesman said.
Volvo buyers who still want physical keys or key fobs will still be able to
get them, though.
Since it's a piece of software, the "digital key" can be shared with others
who can install it on their phones, as well. The owner of the car will have
control over the shared digital keys and can set an expiration date or
revoke them, after which they will no longer work. That will let a Volvo to
owner give someone temporary access to the car without having to actually
give them a key.
"Our innovative digital key technology has the potential to completely
change how a Volvo can be accessed and shared," said Volvo's vice president
for product strategy, Henrik Green, in a statement. "Instead of sitting idle
in a parking lot the entire day, cars could be used more often and
efficiently by whoever the owner wishes."
Volvo will first test the technology with its own car-sharing service,
Sunfleet, which is based at Sweden's Gothenburg airport.
It developed the technology with Sweden's Ericsson. Volvo is also based in
Sweden but is owned by China's Zhejiang Geely Holding Group.
Tesla also has a smartphone app, but drivers have to punch in a security
code to use it. General Motors has also said that the Chevrolet Bolt
electric car will have a similar smartphone app sometime in the future.
Many automakers already have phone apps let users remotely lock and unlock
car doors and even remotely start the engine, but none of those systems
allow the car to be driven without a key fob.
[© wisn.com]
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