Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: EVLN: New FMC F-150 pickup e-truck factory in Dearborn-MI

[George Mullineaux via EV]

What are the duties for your f250? I have a 4wd, f250 long bed with a 7.3L 
diesel and have considered a conversion if it would still haul a trailer load 
of hay (about 12,000 lbs) from the field that is only 1/4 mile from the barn. 
It would also have to bring 2,000 lbs of feed to the farm which is about a 40 
mile round trip.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 16:58
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: John Lussmyer 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] EVLN: New FMC F-150 pickup e-truck factory in 
Dearborn-MI

On Sun Sep 06 09:02:32 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I think the hubris f150 is supposed to get about 10 miles electric 
>range
>
>Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>On Saturday, September 5, 2020, 8:24 PM, Alan Arrison via EV 
> wrote:
>
>If these electric pickups from the big three are "styled" the same as 
>the monstrosities they are selling currently, they are going to have 
>terrible efficiency and require HUGE battery packs to get 200 to 300 
>mile range.

Since I can get 60+ miles range with my F250, 4WD, supercab, longbed - using 
old Leaf Modules, I'm quite sure that Ford can get better range than that.
(and I still have a bunch of empty space under the hood.)



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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: EVLN: New FMC F-150 pickup e-truck factory in Dearborn-MI

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Do you have a thread on this site for the conversion? Did you DIY?

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 09:46
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: John Lussmyer 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] EVLN: New FMC F-150 pickup e-truck factory in 
Dearborn-MI

On Tue Sep 08 02:17:37 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>What are the duties for your f250? I have a 4wd, f250 long bed with a 7.3L 
>diesel and have considered a conversion if it would still haul a trailer load 
>of hay (about 12,000 lbs) from the field that is only 1/4 mile from the barn. 
>It would also have to bring 2,000 lbs of feed to the farm which is about a 40 
>mile round trip.

General hauling (bed loads) mostly.  Lumber, etc... I have loaded 2000 lbs of 
bricks in it.  No noticeable difference in range, since the load didn't stick 
up above the cab.
It has the torque to pull a heavy trailer like yours (Z2K with dual 9" motors), 
but I don't have a hitch due to installing a dump-bed kit.
Hauling a trailer would drastically reduce the range, probably down to 15-20 
miles.

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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: EV drivers locked-out 1+hrs> network down

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Frankly, I use my phone to call people. Of course, it is not a smart phone and 
all it will do is call people. I thought that was what a phone was for, silly 
rabbit!

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Jim Walls via EV
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 19:13
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Jim Walls 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] EV drivers locked-out 1+hrs> network down

On 10/05/2020 08:18, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> Frankly, I think this is a good lesson for people who depend too much 
> on their phones. Always carry the key, even if you don't actually use 
> it. What happens if your phone stops working, or the battery runs 
> down, or the servo in the car fails, or you're in a place with poor 
> cell service ?

Frankly I can't see why you would want to take out your phone, start some 
application, and then unlock the car vs use a key.  Or am I missing something?

--
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
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AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395

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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: [External] EVLN: Tesla-Y feels like it's not towing anything

[George Mullineaux via EV]

There will also be a difference based on the load and type of trailer. Am I 
hauling round bales of hay, square bales of hay or a tractor? Am I pulling a 
flatbed, enclosed, are the wheels under the trailer or exposed? Not all 
trailers and loads are equal, so for a manufacturer to rate their vehicle, I 
would suspect they would need a considerable number of different trailers and 
loads to test. Once this was calculated, they would have to choose the number 
to use; the worse, the average, the mean or some other number. 

Or maybe they could test their vehicle with a trailer and load at a specific 
weight that would cause the greatest drag. They could then rate the vehicle for 
a specific weight with the disclaimer that range could be affected as much as 
... let's say 50%. This would give the customer an idea of what they can expect 
from the vehicle. EPA estimates of mileage for ICE vehicles are no different.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 14:44
To: Peri Hartman ; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 

Cc: Lee Hart 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] [External] EVLN: Tesla-Y feels like it's not 
towing anything

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> Won't it also make a large difference overall, depending on the tow 
> vehicle? If the trailer fits in the trailing vacuum, I would think 
> there would be less resistance than if it were punching a new hole. I 
> suspect this could have a larger difference than the frontal area and Cd.

But of course! To find the difference, you would do the roll-down test with 
just the tow vehicle, and then with the tow vehicle + trailer. Then you could 
calculate the difference in drag coefficients.

Aerodynamics is complicated, and does not lend itself to intuitive guesses 
(unless you are an aerodynamics expert). In special cases, a trailer can even 
*reduce* the aerodynamic drag of a vehicle! For example, a teardrop trailer can 
"fill in" the hole behind a truck or van with a squared-off back. But you still 
consume more energy due to the trailer's weight and rolling resistance.

Lee Hart

--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to 
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
 -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: [External] EVLN: Tesla-Y feels like it’s not towing anything

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Another thought; Ford, GM and Ram do not rate the mpg of their trucks loaded or 
towing. You can go to some YouTube channels and see these trucks put through 
the paces and check mileage. I realize that having some idea of the range is 
necessary, but we owners are pretty clever. Do any of you take the range posted 
for your EV at face value, or do you experiment with it?

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

From: Luke Scharf mailto:lukesch...@clusterbee.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 00:31
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>>
Cc: George Mullineaux 
mailto:georgemulline...@pinnaclecorrugated.com>>;
 evln mailto:e...@gmx.us>>
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] [External] EVLN: Tesla-Y feels like it’s not 
towing anything

 towed a travel trailer with a GMC Sierra Hybrid this weekend.  This is one of 
the GM 2-Mode Hybrid vehicles.

My MPG and driving range fell to about 50% with the trailer attached to the big 
hybrid -- which is about what people who've towed with the Model X have 
reported.  Thinking through the feel of my setup this weekend, I feel like most 
of the range drop was due to the aerodynamic drag of the trailer (which had a 
large cross-sectional area).

I definitely felt the aerodynamic drag of the trailer more than the weight when 
traveling at highway speeds.

The low-speed controllability of the eCVT makes for a really nice tow vehicle.  
Hitching up and maneuvering the trailer was easier with this truck than with 
any other tow-vehicle I've ever used.  At low speed/power settings, the eCVT 
part of the 2-mode system dominates the driving feel, but it feels more like a 
conventional automatic at higher speed/power.

An electric tow vehicle could easily beat the big hybrid in terms of low-speed 
controllability, but would likely be smoother and quieter at highway speeds.  
The 50% reduction in range seems to be about par for the course.

-Luke


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Re: [EVDL] [External] EVLN: Tesla-Y feels like it’s not towing anything

[George Mullineaux via EV]

But I never doubted the ability of an EV with 2,000+ pounds of torque towing. 
It is the manufacturers that will not rate their vehicles with a comparable 
towing weight. Let me go out on a limb and claim that the reason for this is 
that towing will greatly impact range. As has been mentioned many times in 
posts, that is the holy grail of EVs. If Tesla, Audi, Ford, Rivian, etc. would 
give us the range while unloaded, and a range while fully loaded and another 
while towing a respectable weight; they could then rate their vehicles for 
towing and hauling so that the owner would not void the warranty. Or maybe that 
is another underlying reason, the warranty.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of evln via EV
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 23:27
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: evln 
Subject: [External] [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-Y feels like it’s not towing anything



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“Feels like it’s not towing anything”: Video of Model Y shows powerful towing 
capability August 10, 2020 ... The claim that electric vehicles cannot tow 
trailers, caravans and boats has been proven wrong ... a Tesla Model Y has been 
captured on camera bringing a speed boat out of the water, with the owner 
reportedly saying it was so effortless that it felt “like it’s not towing 
anything“ ...
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+ (Tesla not worried about Lucid EV's range)
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Why Tesla shouldn't worry about Lucid's 517-mile range
The Long Range Plus variant has done wonders for EV competition and has
solidified Tesla's position as the leader in electric car development. It is
important to ...
...
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: EVLN: New FMC F-150 pickup e-truck factory in Dearborn-MI

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Thanks for the info. Right now, I am having troubles with my Bobcat skid steer 
(Kubota diesel engine) and depending on the diagnosis, this may be my EV 
conversion. A lot of what I saw in your gallery for the F250 will probably be 
useful. I should be able to use only one 9" motor to run the 
hydraulic/hydrostatic pumps. If I get started with that, I may get back with 
you. Again, thanks.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 00:44
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: John Lussmyer 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] EVLN: New FMC F-150 pickup e-truck factory in 
Dearborn-MI

On Tue Sep 08 21:14:05 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Do you have a thread on this site for the conversion? Did you DIY?

No real thread, but a lot of photos.
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: Fast Charging Various Companies CCS Chevy Bolt

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Here at work, we have some evs for moving equipment and boom lifts. I was under 
the impression that the slow charge after the 80% level was for deep charging. 
We have two trolleys that have been charged in this manner for 6 years on the 
same batteries. I wonder if maybe the fact that they are lead-acid makes their 
charging properties different? I am not extensively trained with evs, just go 
with what I have been told. I do love to learn.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Jay Summet via EV
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 16:22
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Jay Summet 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] Fast Charging Various Companies CCS Chevy Bolt

Plus, if you are using a DC fast charger, the speed of charging drops 
significantly after you reach 80% charged (sometimes down to the speed of a 
Level 2 charger!).

So if you can make it to the next charger with only an 80% charge, it's faster 
to drive off on the next leg of your trip as soon as you reach 80% charged.

Jay

On 8/11/20 3:56 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
> Only charging to 80% is supposed to significantly increase battery life.
> Not only that, but the battery really doesn't like being fully charged in hot 
> weather.
> 
> August 10, 2020 10:35 AM, "Peter Eckhoff via EV"  wrote:
> 
>> Hello Mark,
>>
>> We own a Bolt and love it. Hope you have many pleasant drives with it.
>>
>> I second Steve's comment about Plug Share: Great app!!
>>
>> One of the things to try is that Chevrolet would let us "fast charge"
>> using their 20kwh charger for free. You might want to try to do some 
>> fast charging in your local area just to see what sort of reception 
>> you receive at various dealers. Most have been very accommodating and 
>> will free up an ICE'd spot; sometimes without asking.
>>
>> Most EV companies will mention recharging to 80% and only to 100% for 
>> trips. You might want to ask the folks on:
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furl
>> defense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chevybolt.org__%3B!!CvttNVKvMs
>> Q7MGjF!r7qZuVxo4l2hkY63xFb7IopwCuxs16tCdoNqc61IAdxIrkISjS_oCdKdjqI3jx
>> PJn0w5Yw28Km69tQA%24data=02%7C01%7Cgeorgemullineaux%40pinnacleco
>> rrugated.com%7C81137dfd405442f0c1ad08d83e343d09%7C976178cc71b24588b87
>> 0337d092cdfe3%7C0%7C0%7C637327741372604198sdata=6gCoOmIIO06s1mxL
>> kdcfMU5DrUbJLisgIcmnh6pxxyQ%3Dreserved=0
>>
>> It's been a while since I've participated there but it was a good 
>> source of info and products for reading your pack.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:53 PM Steves via EV  wrote:
>>
>>> Congrats! It’s a great car and fun to drive.
>>>
>>> I think, in general, fast chargers take credit card and the regular 
>>> ones are generally on a network. You’ll end up joining several 
>>> depending on where you travel. I don’t think ChargePoint has a fee- but you 
>>> do have to preload your account.
>>>
>>> I use PlugShare usually. You can filter to just show compatible 
>>> chargers. I wish map programs would show where chargers are. I use a 
>>> map program to get to my destination but then I need to pull over and bring 
>>> up plugshare to find any local chargers. Anyone know a better way?
>>>
>>> You are near Blacksburg right? Kroger’s have free charging at their 
>>> gas stations (not fast charging).
>>>
>>> I don’t know about switching to 100% periodically.
>>>
>>> -Steve
>>>
>>> On Aug 10, 2020, at 9:24 AM, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Folks
>>> I just bought a 20’ Chevy Bolt LT $30k with Covid Discount ($40k 
>>> sucker/sticker price) with some fluffy stuff (last on lot). This was 
>>> the first time I used a fast charger CCS, easy with a credit card, 
>>> about 1/2 hour to get to 80% Electrify America. The dealer wanted me 
>>> to Sign up with ChargePoint with membership card but don’t understand why 
>>> if all “pumps” accept a credit card.
>>> Is PlugShare the best all inclusive app to see all the fast charging 
>>> CCS stations? I was surprised (unlike the Leaf manual), the Chevy 
>>> operators manual was Just the fluffy stuff, nothing about battery 
>>> longevity like only charge to 80% for best life (which I’m doing) 
>>> except for a long trip. Does the BMS have to be reset to 100% occasionally 
>>> or is charging to 80% always best?
>>> Best regards
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: [External] Re: Fast Charging Various Companies CCS Chevy Bolt

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Well, it is obvious that I connected with the right group to learn about evs. 
The responses have been great, and nobody made me feel as ignorant as I am 
about batteries. I am learning, and you guys can take the credit for that.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 17:13
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: Lee Hart 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: Fast Charging Various Companies 
CCS Chevy Bolt

George Mullineaux via EV wrote:
> Here at work, we have some evs for moving equipment and boom lifts. I was 
> under the impression that the slow charge after the 80% level was for deep 
> charging. We have two trolleys that have been charged in this manner for 6 
> years on the same batteries. I wonder if maybe the fact that they are 
> lead-acid makes their charging properties different? I am not extensively 
> trained with evs, just go with what I have been told. I do love to learn.

Hi George,

Pretty much all battery chemistries (lead-acid, nickel-, and lithium at
least) benefit from a slower charge rate as they approach "full". The rule of 
thumb is to slow down charging above 80% state of charge.

Over-charging also shortens the life of the battery. The extra energy doesn't 
get stored as charge; it gets converted into heat, gas, and other destructive 
side reactions. If it's a "flooded" battery with vent caps, you can replace the 
water lost. But you can't do this with sealed batteries (and all lithiums are 
sealed). They simply "die young" when enough over-charging has accumulated.

Hope this helps,
Lee Hart

--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to 
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
 -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, 
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: EVLN: Lordstown Endurance pickup e-truck> 4 in-wheel e-motors

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Nice looking truck, but meeting the demands of commercial operators will 
require more than a 4.5 foot bed and 7,500 pounds of towing (that looks more 
like a Toyota Tacoma). So what are they doing with those 4,400 ft. lb. of 
torque? F250 diesel max torque is about 1,000 ft. lb. and towing 18,000 pounds 
plus. Looks more like they are catering to the commercial boss who drives 
around to different sites and maybe brings some small equipment or materials to 
the real workers who are still driving diesels. Maybe this is just the 
beginning and there will be more configurations later.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Christopher Darilek via EV
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 07:36
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Christopher Darilek 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Lordstown Endurance pickup e-truck> 4 
in-wheel e-motors

 Are we still laughing at hub motors? Unsprung weight? Or does Lordstown know 
what they're doing?
-Chrishttp://evalbum.com/4743


https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/28/lordstown-motors-takes-the-wraps-off-its-endurance-electric-pickup-truck/__;!!CvttNVKvMsQ7MGjF!qxftRaxQKW_j-xjiXH1rDahHedcJQZQoPeobClCYWsmdXbaJSi9Pz8YB6-IUH3TFmC-MaZQN3763FYQ$
Lordstown Motors Takes The Wraps Off Its Endurance Electric Pickup Truck June 
28th, 2020  The Lordstown Endurance is an American-made all-electric pickup 
truck with 4 in-wheel motors that use technology licensed from Elaphe, 600 
horsepower, a stump-pulling maximum torque of 4,400 ft-lbs, and a range of 250 
miles. By design it looks pretty much like a standard pickup truck ...
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/02/lordstown-motor-endurance-electric-truck-sketch-1536x549.jpg__;!!CvttNVKvMsQ7MGjF!qxftRaxQKW_j-xjiXH1rDahHedcJQZQoPeobClCYWsmdXbaJSi9Pz8YB6-IUH3TFmC-MaZQN52_H648$
 

  
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: George's farm truck/van EV project

[George Mullineaux via EV]

It appears that I lit a match under a powder keg of frustration. Is anyone in 
this group connected to Tesla in any way? I attempted to get a message to Elon 
Musk a couple of years ago when the idea of his truck was gaining ground. I was 
so disappointed at the unveiling, because the Cybertruck missed my needs by a 
country mile. We need a truck that is powerful, capable and affordable. Instead 
he shows us a truck that is bullet-proof, Porsche-fast and a little on the 
high-priced side. Is there any way to communicate with these automakers? Ford 
teased us with a video of an EV prototype F150 pulling 1,000,000 pounds. That 
is over-kill, but it at least shows the possibilities. Produce an EV pick-up 
that can haul construction materials and tow somewhere between 18K and 25K 
pounds with about 150-200 miles of range and I believe it would sell. I guess 
we are asking too much!

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 09:12
To: Peri Hartman ; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 

Cc: EVDL Administrator 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

On 17 Jun 2020 at 1:12, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> Mercedes, Toyota, and Ford. The latter two probably have the best 
> chance of meeting the hauling niche. Whether any of them actually do 
> what is rumored, ...

Funny the reputation Mercedes has in the US.  From my admittedly casual 
exposure, It seems quite different in Europe.  I don't know that I'd say 
they're any less likely to develop a substantial hauler than the other two.

Whether it and anything else that the other major automakers develop shows up 
in the US is, IMO, a bigger question mark.  Much of their EV effort is focused 
on the EU and Asia these days.  Those are the places that are REQUIRING EVs, 
and offering significant incentives for them.  And that is where EVs are 
selling.  Renault's second largest selling vehicle in January (before the 
epidemic hit) was an EV.

Let's hope that I'm being too pessimistic about the US EV future.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: Million Mile Battery

[George Mullineaux via EV]

The "people will be stupid if they buy ICE" statement is exactly what keeps EV 
people and ICE people separated. I drive ICE right now because there is no one 
that is producing an EV pick-up in the US that will work on my farm. I have 
researched the possibility of converting my F250, but have not found the best 
solution that will not cost the price of another used ICE. I earn the kind of 
money that allows us to drive 15-35 year old vehicles. My wife is needing 
another vehicle and I compared a Ford Explorer with a Tesla Model X that would 
be smaller but still close to the Explorer. However, $48,000 compared to 
$82,000 will never cause me more than a split second of thought. Please 
remember some simple courtesies when posting. Everybody is not able to buy a 
new vehicle, let alone an EV. I am part of this forum to gain insight, and I 
would rather not be insulted.


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Mark Laity-Snyder via EV
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 11:06
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Mark Laity-Snyder 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] Million Mile Battery

 >On 9 Jun 2020 at 9:52, moskowitz via EV wrote:

> Extending that lifespan is viewed as a key advance because the pack 
> could be reused in a second vehicle.

>This sounds great IF IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.  Still, I have some trouble 
>seeing such a gigantic cycle life increase as a significant advantage 
>for the typical EV owner.
And I would NOT bet against Tesla.  They have brought EVs into the mainstream.  
Everything they have said they would do in their first mission statement has 
come to pass.  Much of their 2nd mission statement is happening or will happen 
soon.   If they say they have a million mile battery.  I am betting they have 
such a battery.  The future will change very soon for EVs.  We will soon have 
EVs cheaper than ICEs and people will be stupid if they buy ICE (not that they 
aren't already if they have the money to buy EV).
  
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: [External] Re: Million Mile Battery

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Thanks,
The Model Y claims 68 cu. ft, the X 88 cu. ft. and the Explorer 87.8 cu. ft. It 
was this comparison that moved me more to the Model X. My wife hauls farm 
supplies with her vehicle and will many times coordinate a trip to the grocery 
store at the same time. With the rear seats folded away, I have seen her 
completely fill her Silhouette van from front to rear. Takes me two trips to 
the barn with a flat bed wheel-barrow, and a dozen or more trips to the house 
to unload. I guess that over time, EVs will eventually be more affordable for a 
larger segment of the population, and the technology and design will give a 
wider selection of vehicles for various needs. Until then, those of us with 
specific needs will have to either make our own EV or continue to drive ICE. 
Right now, urban dwellers and commuters are the only segments of society that 
are being targeted with affordable EV transportation.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:04
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: Peri Hartman 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: Million Mile Battery

Your statement is well said - for the present time. But in the near future, 
with a battery that is substantially cheaper, the "stupid" 
statement might apply to a pretty broad sector where as now it applies only to 
those who can pay somewhat more and need the kind of vehicles produced.

In your case, Geroge, you might look at a Tesla Y. It's about $54K + local 
taxes, thus a lot cheaper than the X. Has 300+ miles range. Good interior 
storage space, though I don't know how it compares to an Explorer.

-- Original Message --
From: "George Mullineaux via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "George Mullineaux" 
Sent: 11-Jun-20 9:02:40 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: Million Mile Battery

>The "people will be stupid if they buy ICE" statement is exactly what keeps EV 
>people and ICE people separated. I drive ICE right now because there is no one 
>that is producing an EV pick-up in the US that will work on my farm. I have 
>researched the possibility of converting my F250, but have not found the best 
>solution that will not cost the price of another used ICE. I earn the kind of 
>money that allows us to drive 15-35 year old vehicles. My wife is needing 
>another vehicle and I compared a Ford Explorer with a Tesla Model X that would 
>be smaller but still close to the Explorer. However, $48,000 compared to 
>$82,000 will never cause me more than a split second of thought. Please 
>remember some simple courtesies when posting. Everybody is not able to buy a 
>new vehicle, let alone an EV. I am part of this forum to gain insight, and I 
>would rather not be insulted.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: EV  On Behalf Of Mark Laity-Snyder via 
>EV
>Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 11:06
>To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>Cc: Mark Laity-Snyder 
>Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] Million Mile Battery
>
>  >On 9 Jun 2020 at 9:52, moskowitz via EV wrote:
>
>>  Extending that lifespan is viewed as a key advance because the pack  
>> could be reused in a second vehicle.
>
>>This sounds great IF IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.  Still, I have some trouble 
>>seeing such a gigantic cycle life increase as a significant advantage 
>>for the typical EV owner.
>And I would NOT bet against Tesla.  They have brought EVs into the mainstream. 
> Everything they have said they would do in their first mission statement has 
>come to pass.  Much of their 2nd mission statement is happening or will happen 
>soon.   If they say they have a million mile battery.  I am betting they have 
>such a battery.  The future will change very soon for EVs.  We will soon have 
>EVs cheaper than ICEs and people will be stupid if they buy ICE (not that they 
>aren't already if they have the money to buy EV).
>
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: TMC's Toyoda swipes@ Tesla> (we make real food)

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Touche mon ami, it is way too early for fighting over bragging rights, which 
IMO belong to Tesla so far. But we need everybody getting on board to bring EVs 
to the entire range of customers.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 14:15
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: Peri Hartman 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] TMC's Toyoda swipes@ Tesla> (we make real food)

Does it matter, right now, who beats who ? The market is so barely tapped, that 
there's room for all players, and for a long time to come. 
If Toyota can make a cheaper car than Tesla, it probably won't hurt Tesla's 
market, it will just mean a new segment of buyers will come.

Peri

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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: EVLN: Your mail may arrive by EV - or it may not

[George Mullineaux via EV]

I have been increasingly discouraged with the progress of EVs in the US. For 
crying out loud, I can't even get my wife to consider an EV. The atmosphere and 
advertisement are abysmal, from both sides. And let's not even mention the lies 
and ignorance of the politicians (whoops, there it is). I don't want to give 
up, but the hill just keeps getting steeper. We have to completely change the 
attitude of a large majority of the population, and I do not think the global 
warming angle is going to get it done. Convenience, habits, ignorance (which is 
not an insult until it becomes willful ignorance), and down-right stubbornness 
are the American way.

How can we get more information to the masses about EVs? How can we get GM to 
cancel their cheesy ads, and try something more intelligent? Yes, other 
countries are leaving us behind in the arena of renewable energy, but bashing 
them will not change anything. GM, Ford, any manufacturer with an electric 
line-up, and even Tesla, need to address the population with the advantages of 
EVs. There are so many areas in which an EV is extremely more adapted. But most 
people never hear anything about that. They still think of EVs as golf carts, 
not viable transportation. People want to go to a dealership and experience a 
vehicle before buying it, but the point has already been made on these posts 
how dealerships do not profit from EVs at this point.

To take the USPS numbers as a benchmark, I doubt if 10% of the US population 
has ever rode in, much less driven, an EV. And many would not even recognize a 
Tesla on the road. By the way, what vehicle is that idiot driving in the GM 
commercials? I have not paid attention to it that closely.

So, there are the problems. Somebody has to come up with some ideas to solve 
them.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, NC

Good grief, it turns out that I was OPTIMISTIC.  Look here:

https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2021-02-24%2Fpost-office-purchase-of-data=04%7C01%7Cgeorgemullineaux%40pinnaclecorrugated.com%7Cb1907707978d4e837cd908d8d932e4a0%7C976178cc71b24588b870337d092cdfe3%7C0%7C0%7C637498159902495448%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=D5DWCjyx2Xf4pQf5yVzcTVLt5473Wz5%2BS%2BmCjWR2O8k%3Dreserved=0
gasoline-truck-seems-to-defy-biden-order

https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fv.gd%2Ftc6Uqkdata=04%7C01%7Cgeorgemullineaux%40pinnaclecorrugated.com%7Cb1907707978d4e837cd908d8d932e4a0%7C976178cc71b24588b870337d092cdfe3%7C0%7C0%7C637498159902495448%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=mVxnQk5Ney%2Bq7fLEZqSTD024jQtEb8H9BB2jU%2B9Kmtw%3Dreserved=0

"The U.S. Postal Service currently plans for only 10% of its new truck fleet to 
be electric, Postmaster General Louis DeJoy said Wednesday, angering 
environmentalists who say the move flies in the face of a White House executive 
order to electrify the government´s vehicles."

I have no words.  Welll, actually I do, but I don't want to get into partisan 
politics and/or start a flame war.

I will say this, however, because I've said it many times before.  Despite what 
Tesla fans might like to think, the EV train has left the US station and it's 
on a one-way trip.  Its central terminal is now in Europe, with a large hub in 
Asia.  

Actually, if Musk is as smart a businessman as he seems to think he is, he'll 
get Tesla out of the US and set up shop where the market is.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

[George Mullineaux via EV]

But now, we are talking about wings, not rotors. I have seen some images of 
prototypes that utilize wing-type mechanisms, but most of the drones I have 
seen still utilize rotors. Can we change the way a rotor creates lift to reduce 
the downwash? No sarcasm, this is an honest question.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Ken McGraw via EV
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 00:52
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: Ken McGraw 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

I would suggest you learn how a bee “ flys”KLM 

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 10, 2021, at 12:02 AM, George Mullineaux via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> And everyone seems to forget the downwash of the blades. These drones will 
> be unmanned helicopters capable of lifting hundreds of pounds of payload. The 
> lift required will cause substantial downwash that can be damaging and 
> dangerous. My co-worker and I, both with military experience, have mused over 
> the idea of "flying cars" landing on a street and blowing trash and debris 
> all over other vehicles and people. The walking/driving robot would be much 
> less bothersome for home deliveries. The drones could be readily used in an 
> airport or warehouse scenario. Rather than one or the other, we should be 
> considering both in concert.
> 
> George Mullineaux
> 3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
> Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
> Sent: Friday, April 9, 2021 17:34
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> Cc: Peri Hartman 
> Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] large drone ?
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's actual email 
> address and know the content is safe.
> 
> Now, Lee is really making sense.
> 
> The drone issue is highly controversial. I know the FCC is working on 
> rules but that's only the start. There are issues with
> - noise
> - safety
> - privacy
> - effectiveness.
> 
> The first three are obvious. Lee touches on the fourth. There are problems 
> with accessing covered porches, avoiding eaves, bushes, wires, and other 
> aerial obstructions.
> 
> On the other hand, a robot device could navigate anywhere a human does.
> It could also be loading the next stop's package(s) while the truck is 
> traveling. Couple that with autonomous vehicles (in some future 
> century
> :) and the whole process becomes much more efficient than today.
> 
> Peri
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

[George Mullineaux via EV]

And everyone seems to forget the downwash of the blades. These drones will be 
unmanned helicopters capable of lifting hundreds of pounds of payload. The lift 
required will cause substantial downwash that can be damaging and dangerous. My 
co-worker and I, both with military experience, have mused over the idea of 
"flying cars" landing on a street and blowing trash and debris all over other 
vehicles and people. The walking/driving robot would be much less bothersome 
for home deliveries. The drones could be readily used in an airport or 
warehouse scenario. Rather than one or the other, we should be considering both 
in concert.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Friday, April 9, 2021 17:34
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: Peri Hartman 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] large drone ?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's actual email 
address and know the content is safe.

Now, Lee is really making sense.

The drone issue is highly controversial. I know the FCC is working on rules but 
that's only the start. There are issues with
- noise
- safety
- privacy
- effectiveness.

The first three are obvious. Lee touches on the fourth. There are problems with 
accessing covered porches, avoiding eaves, bushes, wires, and other aerial 
obstructions.

On the other hand, a robot device could navigate anywhere a human does.
It could also be loading the next stop's package(s) while the truck is 
traveling. Couple that with autonomous vehicles (in some future century
:) and the whole process becomes much more efficient than today.

Peri


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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

[George Mullineaux via EV]

Thanks for the head-slap, David. You are absolutely correct.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 02:47
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: EVDL Administrator 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

This thread is mostly off topic.  However, there are a couple of critical 
points that everyone posting so far seems to be missing.

I want Amazon, UPS, Fedex, and ESPECIALLY USPS to convert their delivery fleets 
to EVs.  

But I want HUMANS driving them.  I want HUMANS delivering my packages to my 
door.  And I want those humans to be treated decently and humanely in their 
jobs.  For goodness sake let's at least give them a reasonable number of 
bathroom breaks.  

Humans can make judgements.  Machines can only do what they're programmed to 
do.  

Machines also can't buy stuff to keep a consumer economy moving forward.  
The more people you put out of work by turning their jobs over to machines, the 
fewer there are to spend money.  When does it stop?  When all the Amazon vans 
are automated?  When UPS and Fedex are too?  When all the OTR trucks are 
automated?  When your job is automated?

As the old song says, the fact that you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

But by all means, put those human drivers in ELECTRIC delivery vehicles.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

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 It's advice that has served me well. It's mind-boggling the 
 number of jobs not worth doing and the incalculable hours I've 
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= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: OT: fuel cell mining truck

[George Mullineaux via EV]

But just charging batteries will not fill the need of such a large truck moving 
massive loads, unless the mining company has a dozen of them charged up and 
ready to cycle the work load throughout the day. I don't see that as an 
acceptable solution for the company.

As I have read these posts about fuel cells, I can honestly say that using fuel 
cells may not be as efficient as batteries for a passenger vehicle, but heavy 
equipment and long-haul trucks could definitely use fuel cells. But the 
infrastructure has to be built for refueling. Or battery technology has to be 
advanced so that these large monsters can recharge in a matter of minutes (I 
would say 30 minutes tops).

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, NC


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Alan Arrison via EV
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 8:31 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Alan Arrison 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] OT: fuel cell mining truck

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's actual email 
address and know the content is safe.

It still doesn't make any sense. The solar they are using to make hydrogen 
could be more efficiently used to just charge batteries.

On 9/6/2021 10:47 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> A Seattle company is building a 300 ton mining truck using fuel cells.
> Assuming that the hydrogen comes from clean generation, this may be a 
> good application of fuel cells.
>
> Peri
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: 500HP towing monster starting at $24k

[George Mullineaux via EV]

I am curious as to the title of the post "towing monster"? I searched several 
other articles on line about the C11 and found not one mention of towing 
capability. Great looking sedan with some interesting features, but go with 
F150 Lightning if towing is your need.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, NC


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Jim Walls via EV
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 11:15 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Jim Walls 
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] 500HP towing monster starting at $24k

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's actual email 
address and know the content is safe.

On 10/18/2021 18:47, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcnev
> post.com%2F2021%2F07%2F15%2Fleap-motors-flagship-suv-c11-to-go-into-ma
> ss-production-in-october%2Fdata=04%7C01%7Cgeorgemullineaux%40pinn
> aclecorrugated.com%7C98abbfe6e7ee484cedb808d992aea8ec%7C976178cc71b245
> 88b870337d092cdfe3%7C0%7C0%7C637702102293162596%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
> d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7
> C3000sdata=nWUUX6nownl67ZpM19NyTXc6IEcrb49w6Q3OEVJXu1I%3Dres
> erved=0  I thought this was an interesting example of what China is 
> going to be putting out. Ford will have a hard time competing. 
> Lawrence Rhodes

I'm curious why the references to the Ford Lightning and the subject of this 
message?  The link is for a sedan with a hatchback.

--
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
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AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395

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Re: [EVDL] [External] What type of magic is this nut and where to get a tool for it?

[George Mullineaux via EV]

You probably have a security nut. It will require a special tool, but not 
knowing the manufacturer of the nut could take some time locating one.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, NC


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:28 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: John Lussmyer 
Subject: [External] [EVDL] What type of magic is this nut and where to get a 
tool for it?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's actual email 
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I'd like to see a photo of that!

On Mon Nov 15 20:11:26 PST 2021 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>It looks like a halfdome with 5 deep dimples for the tool to grab into 
>to undo the nut.


--

Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
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