Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

Overcomplete coherent states, such as laser states of light have a symplectic and Riemannian structure. This makes these states "classical-like " These are states in a huge quantum correlation, or a form of entanglement. This is the classical spacetime that has no quantum fluctuations. Quantum

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

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Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

> On 5 Dec 2019, at 13:00, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 5:36:56 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 3:43:50 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 6:11:25 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > On

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

No that is not the point. Quantum states on the entropy surface deviate from horizon states by the measure to which they are separable. There are no quantum metric fluctuations of a virtual nature. LC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 5:36:56 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 3:43:50 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 6:11:25 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >>> >>> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:29:03 PM

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 3:43:50 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 6:11:25 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:29:03 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 2:31:08 PM

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 6:11:25 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:29:03 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 2:31:08 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >>> >>> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 1:53:39

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:29:03 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 2:31:08 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 1:53:39 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:14 AM Lawrence Crowell < >>>

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 2:31:08 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 1:53:39 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:14 AM Lawrence Crowell < >> goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> *>>> The entire notion of quantum states and

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 1:53:39 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:14 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > *>>> The entire notion of quantum states and events as localized in regions of space is not entirely applicable. What symmetries exist with these

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:08:01 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/4/2019 2:50 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 8:32:43 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> For

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:14 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: *>>> The entire notion of quantum states and events as localized in regions >>> of space is not entirely applicable. What symmetries exist with these >>> quantum states or field are then not tied to local

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On 12/4/2019 8:14 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: But this can be nonlocally correlated in both space and time as an observer finds quantum modes on the BH and outside as Hawking radiation. What can "nonlocal" in time mean?...at two different times, but the same place?  That's what "local"

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On 12/4/2019 2:50 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 8:32:43 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: For symmetry protected quantum states, which are local entanglements, they

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 7:44:06 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 5:50 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > >> *> The entire notion of quantum states and events as localized in regions >> of space is not entirely applicable. What symmetries exist with these >>

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 5:50 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > *> The entire notion of quantum states and events as localized in regions > of space is not entirely applicable. What symmetries exist with these > quantum states or field are then not tied to local

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 8:32:43 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> For symmetry protected quantum states, which are local entanglements, >> they are local because the symmetry or group action is generally

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 8:02:29 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > For symmetry protected quantum states, which are local entanglements, they > are local because the symmetry or group action is generally covariant. This > covariant property enforces what we think of as space and

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

For symmetry protected quantum states, which are local entanglements, they are local because the symmetry or group action is generally covariant. This covariant property enforces what we think of as space and time. LC On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 7:29:13 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > > On

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 8:30 PM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > *Spacetime is an epiphenomenology of entanglement. There are several ways > entanglement can happen. There is topological order that has no scaling, or > where the entanglement occurs without any

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 4:38:56 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > >> > I am not thinking of this. In fact this idea seems completely wrong > headed. It might have been that people would have tried to capture QM by > imposing stochastic Wiener processes and the like. > > LC > >

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 2:40:27 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 7:30:13 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:58 PM Lawrence Crowell < >>>

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

> On 2 Dec 2019, at 19:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 12/2/2019 12:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> In First Order Logic, Real Numbers are the one which simplifies. The first >> order theory of the real is decidable, unlike the first order theory of the >>

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 7:30:13 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:58 PM Lawrence Crowell < >> goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Spacetime does not really fundamentally exist. It

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 2:52:05 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:58 PM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > > Spacetime does not really fundamentally exist. It is just a geometric >> representation for how qubits interact and are entangled with each other. >> > > I agree

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:58 PM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > Spacetime does not really fundamentally exist. It is just a geometric > representation for how qubits interact and are entangled with each other. > I agree it's possible Spacetime is not fundamental, it

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 11:58:13 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > > > Spacetime does not really fundamentally exist. It is just a geometric > representation for how qubits interact and are entangled with each other. > > LC > Or it could be the other way around: qubits come out

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On 12/2/2019 12:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In First Order Logic, Real Numbers are the one which simplifies. The first order theory of the real is decidable, unlike the first order theory of the natural numbers. The digital, or discrete, reality is more complex than the reals, which fits

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 10:48:48 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 6:10 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > >> what does "discrete spacetime" mean? >>> >> >> > It is a form of quotient geometry. >> > > Hawking said the Entropy of a Black Hole is one quarter of it's Event

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 6:10 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: >> what does "discrete spacetime" mean? >> > > > It is a form of quotient geometry. > Hawking said the Entropy of a Black Hole is one quarter of it's Event Horizon in areas of Planck Length squared, so

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 5:10:54 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > > > Quantum physics has complementaries that are both deterministic and > nondeterministic. As a system of wave mechanics it is completely > deterministic. However, the Fourier components are amplitudes that in polar

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 2:19:44 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, November 30, 2019 at 6:11:37 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Saturday, November 30, 2019 at 4:30:28 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 4:36 PM Lawrence Crowell <

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

> On 30 Nov 2019, at 20:15, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.06824 <https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.06824> > > (V2: several mineurs changes ) ! > > Indeterminism in Physics, Classical Chaos and Bohmian Mechanics. Are Real > Numbers Really R

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Saturday, November 30, 2019 at 6:11:37 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Saturday, November 30, 2019 at 4:30:28 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 4:36 PM Lawrence Crowell < >> goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> *> The Planck unit of length and time

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Saturday, November 30, 2019 at 4:30:28 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 4:36 PM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > *> The Planck unit of length and time does not mean space or spacetime is >> discrete. All it means is this is the smallest scale one can localize a >>

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On 11/30/2019 2:29 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 4:36 PM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: /> The Planck unit of length and time does not mean space or spacetime is discrete. All it means is this is the smallest scale one can

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 4:36 PM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: *> The Planck unit of length and time does not mean space or spacetime is > discrete. All it means is this is the smallest scale one can localize a > quantum bit of information. It does not mean that

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

On Saturday, November 30, 2019 at 3:08:42 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > I think it depends on if the Planck Length and Planck Time have physical > significance, it they do then spacetime is not continuous and Real Numbers > are not real; but if spacetime is smooth and continuous as the data

Re: Are Real Numbers Really Real?

I think it depends on if the Planck Length and Planck Time have physical significance, it they do then spacetime is not continuous and Real Numbers are not real; but if spacetime is smooth and continuous as the data from Gamma Ray Bursters seems to indicate then Real Numbers are real and there is

Are Real Numbers Really Real?

https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.06824 (V2: several *mineurs* changes ) ! Indeterminism in Physics, Classical Chaos and Bohmian Mechanics. Are Real Numbers Really Real? Nicolas Gisin <https://arxiv.org/search/quant-ph?searchtype=author=Gisin%2C+N> (Submitted on 19 Mar 2018 (v1 <https://