Re: Closest Continuer Theory

Bruce Kellett wrote: Russell Standish wrote: Let me put it another way - Bruce do you accept Laplace's "je n'ai besoin de cet hypothese" when talking about God? I understand what Laplace means, but I also think that not even Laplace would claim that this entails the non-existence of God. In

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

Russell Standish wrote: Let me put it another way - Bruce do you accept Laplace's "je n'ai besoin de cet hypothese" when talking about God? I understand what Laplace means, but I also think that not even Laplace would claim that this entails the non-existence of God. In other words, he might

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On Thu, Jul 02, 2015 at 12:04:46PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 01 Jul 2015, at 03:33, Russell Standish wrote: > > >On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 07:14:29PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> > >>On 30 Jun 2015, at 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> > >> > >>> > >>>My conclusion is that, overall, his

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On 7/2/2015 9:09 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Terren Suydam > wrote: ​ > ​ I don't see how you can feel entitled to berate people about the use of personal pronouns if you are confused on the difference between the first-pe

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> Does "you" mean John Clark who is currently experiencing Helsinki, or > does "you" mean John Clark who remembers experiencing Helsinki? > > We have agreed that they are the same person. NO, we most certainly have NOT agreed they are the same per

Re: Mission of the Messengers

Samiya, tha 'Satan' fable bothers me. Now we should 'believe' not only a 'God', but also a 'Satan' with destructive tendencies against humanity? I do not understand your " *'...God saved humanity from extinction by annihilating the criminals and their corruptions...'* *D*oes that mean that there a

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: > > ​> ​ > I don't see how you can feel entitled to berate people about the use of > personal pronouns if you are confused on the difference between the > first-person perspective, and descriptions of the first-person perspective. > ​I'm very c

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On 02 Jul 2015, at 13:58, Bruce Kellett wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jul 2015, at 06:48, Bruce Kellett wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2015, at 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: My main thrust all along has been to test the various logical weak points in Bruno's argument, Thanks for t

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jul 2015, at 06:48, Bruce Kellett wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2015, at 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: My main thrust all along has been to test the various logical weak points in Bruno's argument, Thanks for the rethorical tricks to remind us that you have fa

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On 01 Jul 2015, at 06:48, Bruce Kellett wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2015, at 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: My main thrust all along has been to test the various logical weak points in Bruno's argument, Thanks for the rethorical tricks to remind us that you have fail to find any fla

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On 01 Jul 2015, at 06:34, Bruce Kellett wrote: Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 07:14:29PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2015, at 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: My conclusion is that, overall, his arguments do not entail the conclusions he seeks to draw. So yes, I see

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On 01 Jul 2015, at 06:05, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 07:08:39PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 6/30/2015 6:37 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:10:06AM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 6/30/2015 10:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: OK. No problem with this. But my in

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On 01 Jul 2015, at 03:37, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:10:06AM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 6/30/2015 10:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: OK. No problem with this. But my interest are in consciousness and qualia, and the advantage of computer science is that it can handles the

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On 01 Jul 2015, at 03:33, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 07:14:29PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2015, at 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: My conclusion is that, overall, his arguments do not entail the conclusions he seeks to draw. So yes, I seek to defeat his 'p

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On 01 Jul 2015, at 07:34, meekerdb wrote: On 6/30/2015 9:05 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 07:08:39PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 6/30/2015 6:37 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:10:06AM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 6/30/2015 10:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrot

Re: Closest Continuer Theory

On 01 Jul 2015, at 21:13, meekerdb wrote: On 7/1/2015 7:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2015, at 20:10, meekerdb wrote: On 6/30/2015 10:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: That is what unitary evolution means. As I said: >> This means that physics is completely computable -- Turing emulab

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On 01 Jul 2015, at 21:10, Terren Suydam wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 1:43 PM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Terren Suydam > wrote: ​> ​the step 3 argument I and others are making is a lot easier to defend than your position, ​It's very easy to defend as long as l

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On 01 Jul 2015, at 19:43, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Terren Suydam > wrote: ​> ​the step 3 argument I and others are making is a lot easier to defend than your position, ​It's very easy to defend as long as lots and lots of personal pronouns are used, they're a wo

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On 02 Jul 2015, at 02:18, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Actually, my contention was that inadequate machinery might be producing heisenbergs uncertainity principle? Like if the measurement perturb the system? That was Bohr explanation before EPR. He understood, but is quite rhetori

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On 02 Jul 2015, at 01:33, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Jul 01, 2015 at 04:51:15PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2015, at 05:25, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: ​> ​Perhaps determinism arrives in ways we cannot yet measure, but ca

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On 01 Jul 2015, at 18:38, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​​>> ​The heart of the matter is I can't give an answer to a gibberish question. ​> ​How could the question be gibberish when computationalism make it easy to understand.​ ​You are in He

Re: A riddle for John Clark

On 01 Jul 2015, at 17:47, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​Two first person perspectives are NOT equivalent to one third party perspective. And in Bruno's thought experiment there is simply no alternative, like it or not after the duplication