Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 12.08.2012 07:18 Russell Standish said the following: On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 04:22:44PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 11.08.2012 15:13 Stephen P. King said the following: On 8/11/2012 4:30 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Evgenii Dear Evgenii, A bacterium and a rock should not be put head to (no)head in this question. A bacterium has autonomy while a rock does not. It is better to see that the rock is just a small piece of an autonomous whole and then compare that whole to the (whole) bacterium. My goal was just to try to understand what Russell meant by life is unintelligent. Say let us take some creations of AI and compare them with a bacterium. Where do we find more intelligence? Evgenii It seems like a nonsensical question to me. Neither rocks nor bacteria are intelligent. Okay. Let us take then a self-driving car. Is it intelligent? Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 8/11/2012 11:28 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 12.08.2012 07:18 Russell Standish said the following: On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 04:22:44PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 11.08.2012 15:13 Stephen P. King said the following: On 8/11/2012 4:30 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Evgenii Dear Evgenii, A bacterium and a rock should not be put head to (no)head in this question. A bacterium has autonomy while a rock does not. It is better to see that the rock is just a small piece of an autonomous whole and then compare that whole to the (whole) bacterium. My goal was just to try to understand what Russell meant by life is unintelligent. Say let us take some creations of AI and compare them with a bacterium. Where do we find more intelligence? Evgenii It seems like a nonsensical question to me. Neither rocks nor bacteria are intelligent. Okay. Let us take then a self-driving car. Is it intelligent? One of the hallmarks of intelligence is learning from experience. I don't know whether self-driving cars, e.g as developed by Google, do this or not. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 12.08.2012 08:53 Russell Standish said the following: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 08:28:42AM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Okay. Let us take then a self-driving car. Is it intelligent? Evgenii Could be. A self-driving car that navigates a simple environment with beacons and constrained tracks need not be very intelligent. I'm thinking here of the Lego Mindstorm creations that my son created during robotics classes at school. But a car that successfully navigates everyday streets without mowing down other road users would probably have to be quite intelligent. Cheers Please look at self-driving cars from the Standford course on AI: http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2011/12/self-driving-cars.html The question however, how you define intelligence so that to make such a self-driving car more intelligent that a bacterium? Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 12.08.2012 08:39 meekerdb said the following: On 8/11/2012 11:28 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 12.08.2012 07:18 Russell Standish said the following: On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 04:22:44PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 11.08.2012 15:13 Stephen P. King said the following: On 8/11/2012 4:30 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Evgenii Dear Evgenii, A bacterium and a rock should not be put head to (no)head in this question. A bacterium has autonomy while a rock does not. It is better to see that the rock is just a small piece of an autonomous whole and then compare that whole to the (whole) bacterium. My goal was just to try to understand what Russell meant by life is unintelligent. Say let us take some creations of AI and compare them with a bacterium. Where do we find more intelligence? Evgenii It seems like a nonsensical question to me. Neither rocks nor bacteria are intelligent. Okay. Let us take then a self-driving car. Is it intelligent? One of the hallmarks of intelligence is learning from experience. I don't know whether self-driving cars, e.g as developed by Google, do this or not. Could you please take another example from AI, that learns from experience? Then it will be more clear what do you mean. On learning from experience in cells, please see a paper Epigenetic learning in non-neural organisms http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2011/02/epigenetic-learning-in-non-neural-organisms.html Hence you will find learning from experience in a cell indeed. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 08:48:06AM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Please look at self-driving cars from the Standford course on AI: http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2011/12/self-driving-cars.html The question however, how you define intelligence so that to make such a self-driving car more intelligent that a bacterium? Evgenii If the question is how to measure intelligence, I do not have an answer. However, assuming you do have a satisfactory answer, I would be surprised if a bacterium has a measure much above zero, whereas I would expect something like Google's self-driving car would measure significantly more highly, though still much less than a typical human being. -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 12.08.2012 09:45 Russell Standish said the following: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 08:48:06AM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Please look at self-driving cars from the Standford course on AI: http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2011/12/self-driving-cars.html The question however, how you define intelligence so that to make such a self-driving car more intelligent that a bacterium? Evgenii If the question is how to measure intelligence, I do not have an answer. However, assuming you do have a satisfactory answer, I would be surprised if a bacterium has a measure much above zero, whereas I would expect something like Google's self-driving car would measure significantly more highly, though still much less than a typical human being. However, without such a measure, a statement that life is mostly unintelligent is ill-defined. In general, if we assume inexorable physicals laws, for example the M-theory from Grad Design, then it is unclear to me what the meaning of the next statement could be: The behavior of this conglomerate of particles and fields is more intelligent than of that conglomerate of particle and fields. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 11 Aug 2012, at 10:30, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Bacteria are provably Turing complete, rocks are not. You might remind us what you mean by intelligent. I tend to oppose it to competence and learning. Intelligence is needed for making competence capable of growing and diversified, but competence has a negative feedback on intelligence. I use intelligence in a sense closer to free-will and consciousness than an ability to solve problems. IQ tests concerns always form of competence (very basic one: they have been invented to detect mental disability). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: However, without such a measure, a statement that life is mostly unintelligent is ill-defined. Informal perhaps, but hardly ill-defined. Much the same could be said about the concept life. In general, if we assume inexorable physicals laws, for example the M-theory from Grad Design, then it is unclear to me what the meaning of the next statement could be: The behavior of this conglomerate of particles and fields is more intelligent than of that conglomerate of particle and fields. That is because you are looking at it at the wrong level. You need to take into account emergence. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 12.08.2012 11:06 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 11 Aug 2012, at 10:30, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Bacteria are provably Turing complete, rocks are not. You might remind us what you mean by intelligent. I tend to oppose it This is a question to Russell, as he has made a statement that life need not be intelligent. This was exactly my question what intelligent in this respect would mean. Evgenii to competence and learning. Intelligence is needed for making competence capable of growing and diversified, but competence has a negative feedback on intelligence. I use intelligence in a sense closer to free-will and consciousness than an ability to solve problems. IQ tests concerns always form of competence (very basic one: they have been invented to detect mental disability). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 12.08.2012 11:38 Russell Standish said the following: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:05:20AM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: However, without such a measure, a statement that life is mostly unintelligent is ill-defined. Informal perhaps, but hardly ill-defined. Much the same could be said about the concept life. In general, if we assume inexorable physicals laws, for example the M-theory from Grad Design, then it is unclear to me what the meaning of the next statement could be: The behavior of this conglomerate of particles and fields is more intelligent than of that conglomerate of particle and fields. That is because you are looking at it at the wrong level. You need to take into account emergence. Let us take Game of Life. I believe that you have used it once as an example of what emergence is. Suppose there are some complex conglomerates emerge in Game of Life. How one could compare, which a conglomerate is more intelligent? Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 03:55:15PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: This is a question to Russell, as he has made a statement that life need not be intelligent. This was exactly my question what intelligent in this respect would mean. I was not using it in a technical sense, but just the everyday informal notion. Bacteria exhibit adaptive behaviour, such as chemotaxis, quorum sensing and switching between random and linear motion depending on nutrient concentration. But I would argue that none of these behaviours could be considered intelligent, as they can be duplicated by low dimensional dynamical systems. I would imagine that no technical definition for intelligence would be agreed upon at the present time. The situation would appear to be even more dire than that with complexity, which does have at least some vague consensus (see the discussion of complexity in my book, and references therein). Here is one (Fulcher Computational Intelligence: A Compendium (2008), Fulcher, Jain (eds) page 3), in citing Eberhardt et al (1996) Computational Intelligence PC Tools: a) ability to learn (Brent Meeker already mentioned this) b) ability to deal with new situations c) ability to reason I hope this answers your (new) question to some degree. Your previous questions were actually rather different, even if what you were trying to do was take me to task on my use of the term intelligent. Best. -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 8/12/2012 2:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Aug 2012, at 10:30, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Bacteria are provably Turing complete, rocks are not. Bacteria a certainly smarter than rocks by any reasonable measure. But I don't think a bacterium has a semi-infinite tape. Brent You might remind us what you mean by intelligent. I tend to oppose it to competence and learning. Intelligence is needed for making competence capable of growing and diversified, but competence has a negative feedback on intelligence. I use intelligence in a sense closer to free-will and consciousness than an ability to solve problems. IQ tests concerns always form of competence (very basic one: they have been invented to detect mental disability). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 8/11/2012 4:30 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Evgenii Dear Evgenii, A bacterium and a rock should not be put head to (no)head in this question. A bacterium has autonomy while a rock does not. It is better to see that the rock is just a small piece of an autonomous whole and then compare that whole to the (whole) bacterium. -- Onward! Stephen Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. ~ Francis Bacon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 11.08.2012 15:13 Stephen P. King said the following: On 8/11/2012 4:30 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Evgenii Dear Evgenii, A bacterium and a rock should not be put head to (no)head in this question. A bacterium has autonomy while a rock does not. It is better to see that the rock is just a small piece of an autonomous whole and then compare that whole to the (whole) bacterium. My goal was just to try to understand what Russell meant by life is unintelligent. Say let us take some creations of AI and compare them with a bacterium. Where do we find more intelligence? Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 04:22:44PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 11.08.2012 15:13 Stephen P. King said the following: On 8/11/2012 4:30 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Evgenii Dear Evgenii, A bacterium and a rock should not be put head to (no)head in this question. A bacterium has autonomy while a rock does not. It is better to see that the rock is just a small piece of an autonomous whole and then compare that whole to the (whole) bacterium. My goal was just to try to understand what Russell meant by life is unintelligent. Say let us take some creations of AI and compare them with a bacterium. Where do we find more intelligence? Evgenii It seems like a nonsensical question to me. Neither rocks nor bacteria are intelligent. -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
On 8/12/2012 1:18 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 04:22:44PM +0200, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 11.08.2012 15:13 Stephen P. King said the following: On 8/11/2012 4:30 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. What does intelligence means in this context that life is unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. Where there is more intelligence? Evgenii Dear Evgenii, A bacterium and a rock should not be put head to (no)head in this question. A bacterium has autonomy while a rock does not. It is better to see that the rock is just a small piece of an autonomous whole and then compare that whole to the (whole) bacterium. My goal was just to try to understand what Russell meant by life is unintelligent. Say let us take some creations of AI and compare them with a bacterium. Where do we find more intelligence? Evgenii It seems like a nonsensical question to me. Neither rocks nor bacteria are intelligent. Hi Russell, I was considering the autonomy of organisms... I agree with you, neither are intelligent. Intelligence seems to require the means to express itself such that, baring the ability, there is none to be had. -- Onward! Stephen Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. ~ Francis Bacon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
Hi Russell Standish I like this list I have just joined because of the excellent thinkers here, who are already changing my view of what computers can do in AI. The differences in our interpretations of AI and the possibility of computers simulating life is due to our different interpretations of what is meant by the word intelligence. My own definition IMHO allows one to uyse the same definition for AI and for life. There is no generally agree-upon definition of intelligence. My own definition, as I had stated, is that intelligence is the ability to make choices of one's own. Autonomous choices. Self determinations. This ability is IMHO essential for life, for one has to choose which direction to move all on one's own (Aristotle) , to separate good food from bad food, to separate friend from foe, etc. Roger , rclo...@verizon.net 8/7/2012 Is life a cause/effect activity ? If so, what is the cause agent ? - Receiving the following content - From: Russell Standish Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-06, 23:17:34 Subject: Re: scientists simulate an entire organism in software for the firsttime ever On Mon, Aug 06, 2012 at 01:29:50AM -0700, rclough wrote: Perhaps I am wrong, but I have a problem with the concept of artificial intelligence and hence artificial life-- at least according to my understanding of what intelligence is. Artificial Life is an independent field to Artificial Intelligence, so I don't see how you can say that. True there is some cross-pollination, mostly ALife = AI, but sometimes AI philosophical issues has some relevance to ALife. An example of the difference: it is relatively easy to define and measure intelligence. Its virtually impossible to do the same for life. -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI or describing life
The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research is about AI. On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 06:47:59AM -0400, Roger wrote: Hi Russell Standish I like this list I have just joined because of the excellent thinkers here, who are already changing my view of what computers can do in AI. The differences in our interpretations of AI and the possibility of computers simulating life is due to our different interpretations of what is meant by the word intelligence. My own definition IMHO allows one to uyse the same definition for AI and for life. There is no generally agree-upon definition of intelligence. My own definition, as I had stated, is that intelligence is the ability to make choices of one's own. Autonomous choices. Self determinations. This ability is IMHO essential for life, for one has to choose which direction to move all on one's own (Aristotle) , to separate good food from bad food, to separate friend from foe, etc. Roger , rclo...@verizon.net 8/7/2012 Is life a cause/effect activity ? If so, what is the cause agent ? - Receiving the following content - From: Russell Standish Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-06, 23:17:34 Subject: Re: scientists simulate an entire organism in software for the firsttime ever On Mon, Aug 06, 2012 at 01:29:50AM -0700, rclough wrote: Perhaps I am wrong, but I have a problem with the concept of artificial intelligence and hence artificial life-- at least according to my understanding of what intelligence is. Artificial Life is an independent field to Artificial Intelligence, so I don't see how you can say that. True there is some cross-pollination, mostly ALife = AI, but sometimes AI philosophical issues has some relevance to ALife. An example of the difference: it is relatively easy to define and measure intelligence. Its virtually impossible to do the same for life. -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
