Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 2:33 AM, wrote: > > >> I've been over this many times on this list, a rock may be conscious >> > > > But there's no reason to entertain a rock is conscious to begin with. > If the rock behaved intelligently then I would think it's conscious, but it doesn't so I don't. But

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sunday, December 28, 2014 7:33:16 AM UTC, zibble...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 22, 2014 6:59:25 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 6:20 AM, wrote: >> >> >> Something can be conscious but not intelligent, but if it's intelligent then it's conscious

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Monday, December 22, 2014 6:59:25 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 6:20 AM, > > wrote: > > >> Something can be conscious but not intelligent, but if it's >>> intelligent then it's conscious. Consciousness is easy but intelligence >>> >> >> > John - take the amount new

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 4:47:09 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 22 Dec 2014, at 20:14, LizR wrote: > > Sometimes allegedly conscious beings behave very unintelligently. However > using Bruno's distinction intelligent behaviour is conscious (goal directed > etc) but competent behavio

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On 23 Dec 2014, at 01:37, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 09:39:57PM -0800, meekerdb wrote: consciousness is favored. Personally, I think "integrated" is a vague concept and amounts to "and then a miracle happens" without some further elucidation. Brent See arXiv:1405.0126

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On 22 Dec 2014, at 20:14, LizR wrote: Sometimes allegedly conscious beings behave very unintelligently. However using Bruno's distinction intelligent behaviour is conscious (goal directed etc) but competent behaviour isn't. So we have 3 classes of being 1 conscious 2 intelligent 3 compete

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On 12/22/2014 4:37 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 09:39:57PM -0800, meekerdb wrote: consciousness is favored. Personally, I think "integrated" is a vague concept and amounts to "and then a miracle happens" without some further elucidation. Brent See arXiv:1405.0126 for a

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 09:39:57PM -0800, meekerdb wrote: > consciousness is favored. Personally, I think "integrated" is a > vague concept and amounts to "and then a miracle happens" without > some further elucidation. > > Brent > See arXiv:1405.0126 for a quite explicit quantification of what

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On 12/22/2014 11:14 AM, LizR wrote: Sometimes allegedly conscious beings behave very unintelligently. However using Bruno's distinction intelligent behaviour is conscious (goal directed etc) but competent behaviour isn't. So we have 3 classes of being 1 conscious 2 intelligent 3 competent 2

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 LizR wrote: > > > So we have 3 classes of being > 1 conscious > 2 intelligent > 3 competent > And what is the difference between intelligent and competent? I will tell you. If a computer does it then it's just competent, but if a human does the exact same thing then it's

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

Sometimes allegedly conscious beings behave very unintelligently. However using Bruno's distinction intelligent behaviour is conscious (goal directed etc) but competent behaviour isn't. So we have 3 classes of being 1 conscious 2 intelligent 3 competent 2 inplies 1 but 1 doesn't imply 2 so 1 is

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 6:20 AM, wrote: >> Something can be conscious but not intelligent, but if it's intelligent >> then it's conscious. Consciousness is easy but intelligence >> > > > John - take the amount new knowledge you assert I just the above > sentence. From where or what do you acquir

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On 22 Dec 2014, at 18:12, zibblequib...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, December 22, 2014 12:38:35 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Dec 2014, at 00:05, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 2:45 PM, wrote: > Yesterday you said you had to conclude if the test detected consciousness w

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Monday, December 22, 2014 12:38:35 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 22 Dec 2014, at 00:05, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 2:45 PM, > > wrote: > > > Yesterday you said you had to conclude if the test detected >> consciousness well it must also detect intelligence. > > > T

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

cious but not intelligent, We agree on this. but if it's intelligent then it's conscious. OK. Even very good, because that distinguish intellegence from competence. A machine can be competent but not intelligent (like an expert or a specialist). Consciousness is easy but intel

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sunday, December 21, 2014 11:05:08 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 2:45 PM, > > wrote: > > > Yesterday you said you had to conclude if the test detected >> consciousness well it must also detect intelligence. > > > That's not what I said, you've got it backward. Someth

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On 22 December 2014 at 12:05, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 2:45 PM, wrote: > > > Yesterday you said you had to conclude if the test detected >> consciousness well it must also detect intelligence. > > > That's not what I said, you've got it backward. Something can be conscious >

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 2:45 PM, wrote: > Yesterday you said you had to conclude if the test detected consciousness > well it must also detect intelligence. That's not what I said, you've got it backward. Something can be conscious but not intelligent, but if it's intelligent then it's conscio

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sunday, December 21, 2014 5:53:39 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:39 AM, meekerdb > wrote: > > > A part of its information processing system that is highly integrated >> will indeed be conscious. However, IIT research has shown that for many >> integrated systems,on

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:39 AM, meekerdb wrote: > A part of its information processing system that is highly integrated > will indeed be conscious. However, IIT research has shown that for many > integrated systems,one can design a functionally equivalent feed-forward > system that will be unco

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sunday, December 21, 2014 2:20:01 AM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 3:07 PM, > > wrote: > > > Part of how you sum up your core insight: that consciousness has no >> detectable objective reality >> > > No, I'm saying that consciousness DOES have a detectable objective real

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sunday, December 21, 2014 6:46:38 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > As with split brain patients and other humans, if some part of the brain > isn't connected to the part of the brain that talks, we really can't > conclude those other parts doing other processing are unconscious. It's > like me conc

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

As with split brain patients and other humans, if some part of the brain isn't connected to the part of the brain that talks, we really can't conclude those other parts doing other processing are unconscious. It's like me concluding your not conscious because I don't know what your thinking. It's a

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On 12/20/2014 6:19 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 3:07 PM, > wrote: > Part of how you sum up your core insight: that consciousness has no detectable objective reality No, I'm saying that consciousness DOES have a detectable objective real

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 3:07 PM, wrote: > Part of how you sum up your core insight: that consciousness has no > detectable objective reality > No, I'm saying that consciousness DOES have a detectable objective reality if and only if it's a brute fact that consciousness is the way data feels like

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

sychology or philosophy departments at any university. > > John K Clark > C.V. multiverse differentiated in accord. In the meantime, I've been thinking about your intelligence consciousness. May I seek your clarification what connection you see between your thinking and the thin

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:33 AM, wrote: > I apologize for this unreadable drivel > But with a real flare for writing unreadable drivel you could go far in the psychology or philosophy departments at any university. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

I apologize for this unreadable drivel On Friday, December 12, 2014 4:45:39 AM UTC, zibble...@gmail.com wrote: > hi John, zibbsey here, we left things that I'd get back to you. if ok with > you I've some points / questions > > On Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:57:38 AM UTC, John Clark wrote: >

Intelligence & Consciousness

hi John, zibbsey here, we left things that I'd get back to you. if ok with you I've some points / questions On Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:57:38 AM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 6:01 PM, > wrote: > > I was talking about your root idea that Evolution cannot detect >> con