Re: bruno list

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> That, as I keep saying, is the question. Assume that the bot can >> behave like a person but lacks consciousness. > > No. You have it backwards from the start. There is no such thing as > 'behaving like a person'. There is only a person in

Re: bruno list

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 4:35 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 8/7/2011 4:42 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> That, as I keep saying, is the question. Assume that the bot can >> behave like a person but lacks consciousness. Then it would be >> possible to replace parts of your brain with non-conscious c

Re: bruno list

On Aug 8, 8:19 am, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> That, as I keep saying, is the question. Assume that the bot can > >> behave like a person but lacks consciousness. > > > No. You have it backwards from the start. There is no such thing as

Re: COMP refutation paper - finally out

John Mikes wrote: > > benjayk wrote: > > *"Sorry, I can't follow you... You do not accept the concept of > consciousness > **and then want an origin for it?"* > > I see you did not follow me... I asked for some identification to that > mystical noumenon we are talking about exactly* to make it

Re: Math Question

On 07 Aug 2011, at 21:41, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 1, 2:29 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: Bruno & Stephen, Isn't there a concept of imprecision in absolute physical measurement and drift in cosmological constants? Are atoms and molecules all infinitesimally different in size or are they absolu

Re: Simulated Brains

On 08 Aug 2011, at 03:03, Craig Weinberg wrote: Interesting article: Residents of the brain: Scientists turn up startling diversity among nerve cells http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/332400/title/Residents_of_the_brain_ "No two cells are the same. Zoom in, and the brain’s wrinkly, p

Re: COMP refutation paper - finally out

On 07 Aug 2011, at 21:50, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Then computer science provides a theory of consciousness, and explains how consciousness emerges from numbers, How can consciousness be shown to emerge from numbers when it is

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

On 8/7/2011 11:40 PM, Roger wrote: Hi. I used to post to this list but haven't in a long time. I'm a biochemist but like to think about the question of "Why is there something rather than nothing?" as a hobby. If you're interested, some of my ideas on this question and on "Why do things

Re: Simulated Brains

Craig, Now I agree that my example was not good. I have searched some more. What about phantom pain, that is, pain in a limb that has been removed by amputation? What your theory says about such a thing? Evgenii On 07.08.2011 22:28 Evgenii Rudnyi said the following: On 07.08.2011 21:26 Cr

Re: Simulated Brains

On 08.08.2011 00:03 meekerdb said the following: On 8/7/2011 11:07 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.08.2011 19:58 meekerdb said the following: On 8/6/2011 11:44 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Please note that according to experimental results (see the book mentioned in my previous message), p

Re: bruno list

On 8/8/2011 5:34 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 4:35 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 8/7/2011 4:42 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: That, as I keep saying, is the question. Assume that the bot can behave like a person but lacks consciousness. Then it would be possible to

Re: bruno list

On 8/8/2011 6:13 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: The machine doesn't care if it's right or wrong But my thermostat cares whether it's hot or cold. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everyt

Re: COMP refutation paper - finally out

Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 07 Aug 2011, at 21:50, benjayk wrote: > >> >> >> Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> >> Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> Then computer science provides a theory of consciousness, and >>> explains how >>>

Re: Math Question

On Aug 8, 12:03 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 07 Aug 2011, at 21:41, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Aug 1, 2:29 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Bruno & Stephen, > > > Isn't there a concept of imprecision in absolute physical measurement > > and drift in cosmological constants? Are atoms and molecu

Re: Simulated Brains

On Aug 8, 12:04 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: > You mean some neuron are me? That is worst that the "grandmother   > neuron" idea. All of your neurons are you, but the only some groups are aware that they are you at any given time. If you're drunk, for instance, some parts of you are not online and w

Re: Simulated Brains

On Aug 8, 2:10 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: > Craig, > > Now I agree that my example was not good. I have searched some more. > What about phantom pain, that is, pain in a limb that has been removed > by amputation? What your theory says about such a thing? I think that phantom limb pain is about th

Re: bruno list

On Aug 8, 2:21 pm, meekerdb wrote: > On 8/8/2011 6:13 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > The machine doesn't care if it's right or wrong > > But my thermostat cares whether it's hot or cold. I see what you are saying, but no, it doesn't care. If it cared then it would not have to be programmed or se

Re: Simulated Brains

Brent wrote: *"No, but some neuron excites some other neuron is all that happens later in your brain too. So where does it become pain? Is it when those neurons in your brain connect the afferent signal with the language modes for "pain" or with memories of injuries or with a vocal cry?"* We a

Re: bruno list

On 8/8/2011 1:33 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 8, 2:21 pm, meekerdb wrote: On 8/8/2011 6:13 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: The machine doesn't care if it's right or wrong But my thermostat cares whether it's hot or cold. I see what you are saying, but no, it doesn't ca

Re: bruno list

On Aug 8, 7:18 pm, meekerdb wrote: > On 8/8/2011 1:33 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Aug 8, 2:21 pm, meekerdb  wrote: > > >> On 8/8/2011 6:13 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > >>> The machine doesn't care if it's right or wrong > > >> But my thermostat cares whether it's hot or cold. > > > I see w

Re: bruno list

On Aug 8, 7:18 pm, meekerdb wrote: > It has the capacity to understand what the temperature is and what it's > supposed to be.  You're just showing your carbon racism because my > thermostat is made of glass and metal. To be clear, I do suspect that each metal strip, and any metal strip, may be

Re: bruno list

On 8/8/2011 5:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 8, 7:18 pm, meekerdb wrote: On 8/8/2011 1:33 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 8, 2:21 pm, meekerdbwrote: On 8/8/2011 6:13 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: The machine doesn't care if it's right or wrong

Re: bruno list

On 8/8/2011 5:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 8, 7:18 pm, meekerdb wrote: It has the capacity to understand what the temperature is and what it's supposed to be. You're just showing your carbon racism because my thermostat is made of glass and metal. To be clear, I do suspect t

Re: bruno list

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> > No. You have it backwards from the start. There is no such thing as >> > 'behaving like a person'. There is only a person interpreting >> > something's behavior as being like a person. There is no power >> > emanating from a thing that m

Re: bruno list

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:19 AM, meekerdb wrote: > I think so too.  But that doesn't show that some different arrangement of > functions in the brain could not produce a qualitatively different kind of > consciousness.  Indeed it seems that sociopaths, for example, are different > in lacking an em

Re: bruno list

On Aug 8, 8:42 pm, meekerdb wrote: > On 8/8/2011 5:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Aug 8, 7:18 pm, meekerdb  wrote: > > >> It has the capacity to understand what the temperature is and what it's > >> supposed to be.  You're just showing your carbon racism because my > >> thermostat is made

Re: bruno list

On Aug 8, 8:50 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> > No. You have it backwards from the start. There is no such thing as > >> > 'behaving like a person'. There is only a person interpreting > >> > something's behavior as being like a person

Re: bruno list

On Aug 8, 8:53 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > The only way to guarantee identical consciousness would be to > replicate behaviour perfectly. Two entities that produce the same > outputs for all inputs would have the same consciousness. What is an entity and an output? If one entity is made of

Re: bruno list

On 8/8/2011 5:53 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:19 AM, meekerdb wrote: I think so too. But that doesn't show that some different arrangement of functions in the brain could not produce a qualitatively different kind of consciousness. Indeed it seems that sociopat

Re: bruno list

On 8/8/2011 6:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 8, 8:42 pm, meekerdb wrote: On 8/8/2011 5:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 8, 7:18 pm, meekerdbwrote: It has the capacity to understand what the temperature is and what it's supposed to be. You're just showing

Re: COMP refutation paper - finally out

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 1:56 PM, benjayk wrote: > > > I am getting a bit tired of labouring this point, but honestly your theory > is postulating something that seems nonsensical to me. Why on earth would I > believe in the truth of something that *can never be known in any way* > (namely, that ari

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Brent, Thanks for the comment! I always like to distinguish between the mind's conception/perception of a thing and the thing itself. So, I'd say that a thing can exist even if its properties are unknown to us (ie, to our mind's conception of the thing) but those properties have to be known,

Re: COMP refutation paper - finally out

On 8/8/2011 9:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 1:56 PM, benjayk > wrote: I am getting a bit tired of labouring this point, but honestly your theory is postulating something that seems nonsensical to me. Why on earth wo