John Mikes wrote:
> benjayk wrote:
> *"Sorry, I can't follow you... You do not accept the concept of
> **and then want an origin for it?"*
> I see you did not follow me... I asked for some identification to that
> mystical noumenon we are talking about exactly* to make it acceptable for
> discussion*. T H E N - I F it turns out to BE acceptable, we may well
> contemplate an origination for it - if???...
> Better followable now?
> Sorry for not having been clearer.
Ah, OK. As I see it, (what I mean when I say) consciousness is simply
self-evident, obvious - you might even say it's obviousness itself. There
can be no remotely exact definition of it, as it is too simple (it can't be
cut into analyzable pieces) and complex (it has many different facets) for
that. It is that in which definitions arise. Just as one sentence in a book
cannot capture the whole book, no definition can capture consciousness.
To define consciousness and talk about it's properties means labeling and
representing it. It's not wrong, but we should clear that it's ultimately
undefinable and not even understandable.
If you ask me what consciousness is, then I can just invite you too look at
what already is obvious. In order to become more aware of how obvious it
really is, it might be useful to not conceptualize it, and not jump to the
conclusion "It's trivial that I am conscious.". If we always search for
consciousness as something concretely graspable (by the mind) we will miss
the obvious fact that we simply are conscious and that the mind can't really
You might say that if we don't know what exactly we are talking about it
makes no sense to talk about it. But I don't think that's necessarily true.
When we first learn about something, we don't know what exactly we talk
about and then learn more about it through asking questions, or
John Mikes wrote:
> BTW I never said that I do not accept the term consciousness - if it is
> identified in a way that makes sens (to me). I even worked on it (>1992)
> apply the word to something *more general* than e.g. awareness or similar
> 'human' peculiarities.
When I say consciousness I just mean ability to experience (in the broadest
View this message in context:
Sent from the Everything List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For more options, visit this group at