--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 8, 2011, at 9:40 AM, cardemaister wrote:
Well, duh! That's rather exactly what according to PJ seems to
be the conditio sine qua non of (asaMprajñaata?)-samaadhi
(for upaaya-pratyaya-yogi_s):
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 8, 2011, at 9:40 AM, cardemaister wrote:
Well, duh! That's rather exactly what according to PJ seems to
be the conditio sine qua non of (asaMprajñaata?)-samaadhi
(for upaaya-pratyaya-yogi_s):
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
On Nov 6, 2011, at 8:58 PM, johnt wrote:
You never will in a TM context, but if you study some
of Milton Erickson, Bandler and Grinder and other
related sources
On Nov 7, 2011, at 7:40 PM, feste37 wrote:
Good question. I did TM for more than 30 years, but then about 7 or
8 years ago, I lost the desire to do it. This happened quite
quickly, as I recall, over a period of maybe a few months. I just
no longer had any desire to meditate, so I stopped
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 7, 2011, at 7:40 PM, feste37 wrote:
Good question. I did TM for more than 30 years, but then about 7 or
8 years ago, I lost the desire to do it. This happened quite
quickly, as I recall, over a period of
On Nov 8, 2011, at 4:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
I wouldn't use the words placebo effect, as Vaj
does
I'd more specifically call it expectation effect from
indoctrination, that expectation creating a style of placebo
relaxation response.
It really seems to center around belief. If you do
Hi Patrick, no need to consider these two failures with coarse nervous systems.
They wouldn't feel the puja if it smacked them in the face (and I wish it
would). Opinions by one fool who hasn't meditated or done his puja for 40+
years and another who never learned it. Such hubris and BS.
---
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote:
On Nov 7, 2011, at 7:40 PM, feste37 wrote:
Good question. I did TM for more than 30 years, but then about 7 or 8
years ago, I lost the desire to do it. This happened quite quickly, as I
recall, over a period of maybe a
On Nov 8, 2011, at 8:40 AM, Tom Pall wrote:
So why do you think people seem to get diminishing returns with
decades of doing TM/TMSP? It's all so exciting during the first
few years of TM, the first 2 advanced techniques, the first few
years of the TMSP.I just can't buy the argument
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote:
Hi Patrick, no need to consider these two failures with coarse nervous
systems. They wouldn't feel the puja if it smacked them in the face (and I
wish it would). Opinions by one fool who hasn't meditated or done his
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 8, 2011, at 4:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
I wouldn't use the words placebo effect, as Vaj
does
I'd more specifically call it expectation effect from
indoctrination, that expectation creating a style of placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote:
Patrick, I do not deny your experience with the TM
puja, but I would suggest another explanatin for it.
I wouldn't use the words placebo effect, as Vaj
does, but I would certainly call any subjective
effect
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote:
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 7, 2011, at 7:40 PM, feste37 wrote:
Good question. I did TM for more than 30 years, but then about 7 or 8
years ago, I lost the desire to do
...@earthlink.net
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 5:10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHY TM CAN'T BE LEARNED FROM A BOOK
On Nov 8, 2011, at 4:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
I wouldn't use the words placebo effect, as Vaj
does
I'd more specifically call
Thanks for following up, Vaj. This topic interests me.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 8, 2011, at 4:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
I wouldn't use the words placebo effect, as Vaj
does
I'd more specifically call it expectation effect from
Thanks for that - all I can say about the Puja is that it worked. It enabled me
to use a mantra that transformed my life completely. Having been an altar boy,
I can say that the rituals of Christianity, although practiced widely, can't
compare to the soft and powerful transcendence of the Puja.
turquoiseb:
The reason is that in the years between then and
now I've had many more experiences, some of which
put the earlier experiences in the shade and raised
the bar on my internal Woo Scale. What I used to
consider a 9 I now consider a 4. I'm sure you get
what I'm talking
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote:
Hi Patrick, no need to consider these two failures with coarse nervous
systems. They wouldn't feel the puja if it smacked them in the face (and
whynotnow:
It is simply bizarre to me why someone who has
not done these things for so many years would
even care to comment on them...
Vaj reminds me of how John Manning used to spam
the Mormon news forum, I guess because John at
one time was married to a Mormon girl, back in
1970. But,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
On Nov 6, 2011, at 8:58 PM, johnt wrote:
You never will in a TM context, but if you study some
of Milton Erickson, Bandler and Grinder and other
related sources
On Nov 8, 2011, at 9:40 AM, cardemaister wrote:
Well, duh! That's rather exactly what according to PJ seems to
be the conditio sine qua non of (asaMprajñaata?)-samaadhi
(for upaaya-pratyaya-yogi_s):
*shraddhaa*-viirya-smRti-samaadhi-prajñaa-puurvaka
itareSaam!
shraddhA f. faith , trust ,
On Nov 8, 2011, at 9:40 AM, cardemaister wrote:
Well, duh! That's rather exactly what according to PJ seems to
be the conditio sine qua non of (asaMprajñaata?)-samaadhi
(for upaaya-pratyaya-yogi_s):
BTW, it's samprajnata NOT asamprajnata.
Responses interleaved below...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote:
If you think back on it, what could possibly BE more
of an exercise in moodmaking than the way we were
taught to perform the puja? It (at least as taught
on my TTC) was *not* about the mere power of the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@... wrote:
Responses interleaved below...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote:
If you think back on it, what could possibly BE more
of an exercise in moodmaking than the way we were
taught to perform the puja?
On Nov 8, 2011, at 11:09 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
The reason is that in the years between then and now
I've had many more experiences, some of which put the
earlier experiences in the shade and raised the bar
on my internal Woo Scale. What I used to consider a 9
I now consider a 4. I'm
Vag:
And unless one knows how to defeat mental laxity and excitation at the
subtle level, one can never reach the level of complete pacification of
afflictive emotional states like aggression or cravings.
What Vag is not telling you is that this explanation is just standard
Mahayana Buddhist
To Vaj: ok, you experienced nothing of value from what you thought was TM but
wasn't really. And, you prefer Mindfulness and Vipassana. Very good!
http://www.popaganda.com/media/blogs/store/SuperSuppercropped.JPG
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 8,
On Nov 8, 2011, at 5:09 PM, Yifu wrote:
To Vaj: ok, you experienced nothing of value from what you thought was TM but
wasn't really. And, you prefer Mindfulness and Vipassana. Very good!
It's all good IMO.
There's a lot of wonderful people I would've missed if it weren't for TM. And I
On Nov 8, 2011, at 5:09 PM, emptybill wrote:
Vag:
And unless one knows how to defeat mental laxity and excitation at the subtle
level, one can never reach the level of complete pacification of afflictive
emotional states like aggression or cravings.
What Vag is not telling you is that
Not as far as I know but some of the subsequent practitioners may have. Milton
Erickson did call the state of meditation (transcendence) the state of no
trance.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@
On Nov 6, 2011, at 9:56 PM, johnt johnlasher20002...@yahoo.com wrote:
Then what is it saying. Be precise I value tradition in the sense that it
preserves elements that are life supporting, it doesn't tell me how it works.
That's what modern psychologists are only beginning to try and do
On Nov 6, 2011, at 8:58 PM, johnt johnlasher20002...@yahoo.com wrote:
You never will in a TM context, but if you study some of Milton Erickson,
Bandler and Grinder and other related sources you will find that each part of
a TM initiation has a well studied neurolinguistic effect which in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
On Nov 6, 2011, at 8:58 PM, johnt wrote:
You never will in a TM context, but if you study some of Milton Erickson,
Bandler and Grinder and other related sources you will find that each part
of a TM initiation has a well studied
On Nov 7, 2011, at 10:17 AM, jpgillam wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
On Nov 6, 2011, at 8:58 PM, johnt wrote:
You never will in a TM context, but if you study some of Milton
Erickson, Bandler and Grinder and other related sources you will
find that each part
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@... wrote:
You never will in a TM context, but if you study some of Milton
Erickson, Bandler and Grinder and other related sources you will
find that each part of a TM initiation has a well studied
neurolinguistic effect
Did
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 7, 2011, at 10:17 AM, jpgillam wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
On Nov 6, 2011, at 8:58 PM, johnt wrote:
You never will in a TM context, but if you study some of Milton
Erickson,
This is the usual disinformation from Vag, the master of misanthropic
subterfuge.
Here are the reality of the TM Puja:
Acharya Vandana Puja sourced and translated by Paul Mason:
http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/TMpuja.htm
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
We
Vaj:
...it does not come from a real lineal tradition,
it's something Mahesh made up.
What exactly, are the parts by MMY that are different
from those recited by GD? From what I've heard, the
MMY GD puja is standard - I've heard it recited by
at least three sources other than the TMO, such
emptybill:
This is the usual disinformation from Vag, the
master of misanthropic subterfuge.
Here are the reality of the TM Puja:
It looks like we've got another fib by Vaj, but why
would he be fibbing, when it's so easy to source the
material? Go figure.
Acharya Vandana Puja sourced
On Nov 7, 2011, at 12:25 PM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote:
emptybill:
This is the usual disinformation from Vag, the
master of misanthropic subterfuge.
Here are the reality of the TM Puja:
It looks like we've got another fib by Vaj, but why
would he be fibbing, when it's so easy to
The first thing any research needs to do is to learn the procedures and
they won't do that so they'll always be spectators and draw false
conclusions. Shakti is simply life force, a concept beyond the ability
of contemporary science to understand. One should also look into the
yoga of sound
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 7, 2011, at 12:25 PM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote:
emptybill:
This is the usual disinformation from Vag, the
master of misanthropic subterfuge.
Here are the reality of the TM Puja:
It looks like
On Nov 7, 2011, at 12:18 PM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote:
Vaj:
...it does not come from a real lineal tradition,
it's something Mahesh made up.
What exactly, are the parts by MMY that are different
from those recited by GD? From what I've heard, the
MMY GD puja is standard - I've heard it
Vaj, you need to apologize for your deceitful subterfuge:
http://www.kohngallery.com/ryden/pages/ryden.artwork1.html
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 7, 2011, at 12:18 PM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote:
Vaj:
...it does not come from a real lineal
On Nov 7, 2011, at 10:17 AM, jpgillam wrote:
I've been getting
results from the TM puja for 34 years. It
stills my mind. I recite it often, for
that purpose.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
The way we know the TM puja and initiation process acts like a
Since you seem to not be aware of it NLP deals extensively with sound vibration
known as auditory tonal as contrasted to auditory digital which deals with
the meaning of words. Read a little before you comment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote:
The first thing
Sorry but I just don't buy the NLP story. It just sounds like a
ignorant flatlander theory.
On 11/07/2011 12:54 PM, johnt wrote:
Since you seem to not be aware of it NLP deals extensively with sound
vibration known as auditory tonal as contrasted to auditory digital which
deals with the
Vaj:
The majority of TM initiators not only stopped teaching TM, but have probably
even stopped meditating. I am almost certain of this.
However, for you to propose that the Puja ceremony works on the basis of the
placebo effect is so bizarre and misinformed as to be the same as saying that
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 3:27 PM, jpgillam jpgil...@yahoo.com wrote:
My most profound experience of the stilling
power of the puja occurred when I was learning
it on my TM teacher training course. One
afternoon upon finishing my rounds I sang
the puja as I sat on my bed. Afterward, I
had
Vaj,
You should do some research before making such disingenuous statements. Parts
of the TM puja actually can be found in the Vishnu kavach which is stated in
Srila Prabhupada's commentary to the Srimad Bhagavatam.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov
Wait a minute, Vaj. The TM puja is the same as used by many Hindus. When I
initiated Hindus from India they could sing it along with me - pretty much word
for word. What ever else you might think of TM, this is not something MMY
hobbled together at all.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
[X-(] Vag, your vag is showing. [X-(]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote:
Wait a minute, Vaj. The TM puja is the same as used by many Hindus.
When I initiated Hindus from India they could sing it along with me -
pretty much word for word. What ever else you
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Nov 6, 2011, at 9:56 PM, johnt johnlasher20002000@... wrote:
Then what is it saying. Be precise I value tradition in the sense that it
preserves elements that are life supporting, it doesn't tell me how it
works.
It's cobbled from a number of different recitations and shuddhis
including the guru puja. The tradition of masters is the only thing
that is probably TM unique. There is no one standard puja. Offerings
different and length according to who is performing the puja.
On 11/07/2011 01:50 PM,
Right - also most of it is identical to the ritualistic verses in Muktananda's
texts dispensed in the SYDA org...; except for the part going Brahmananda
Saraswati,
...
Vaj has discredited himself, exposing his true identity as a mere Snow Yak:
On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:18 PM, maskedzebra wrote:
The majority of TM initiators not only stopped teaching TM, but have probably
even stopped meditating. I am almost certain of this.
That's true. It was actually true before recertification was required.
However, for you to propose that the
As a former TM teacher who taught hundreds of people but no longer practices
TM, I would say that MZ is absolutely correct here in every point he so
eloquently makes.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote:
Vaj:
The majority of TM initiators not only
On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:40 PM, John wrote:
Vaj,
You should do some research before making such disingenuous statements. Parts
of the TM puja actually can be found in the Vishnu kavach which is stated in
Srila Prabhupada's commentary to the Srimad Bhagavatam.
I'm well aware that it was
On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:50 PM, Susan wrote:
Wait a minute, Vaj. The TM puja is the same as used by many Hindus. When I
initiated Hindus from India they could sing it along with me - pretty much
word for word. What ever else you might think of TM, this is not something
MMY hobbled together at
On Nov 7, 2011, at 4:57 PM, Bhairitu wrote:
It's cobbled from a number of different recitations and shuddhis
including the guru puja. The tradition of masters is the only thing
that is probably TM unique. There is no one standard puja. Offerings
different and length according to who is
On Nov 7, 2011, at 6:00 PM, feste37 wrote:
As a former TM teacher who taught hundreds of people but no longer practices
TM, I would say that MZ is absolutely correct here in every point he so
eloquently makes.
If I may ask: why on earth did you stop doing TM Feste?
There's a Magical quality to TM you'll never get unless you actually do it.
No amount of data regarding the outer, superficial properties of TM can
penetrate the outer coverings (what can be written down in a book); and get
into the Absolute heart of the matter. A pissing contest enumerating
Good question. I did TM for more than 30 years, but then about 7 or 8 years
ago, I lost the desire to do it. This happened quite quickly, as I recall, over
a period of maybe a few months. I just no longer had any desire to meditate, so
I stopped doing it and have never gone back to it. Having
Frankly I don't give a rat's ass what you buy or don't
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote:
Sorry but I just don't buy the NLP story. It just sounds like a
ignorant flatlander theory.
On 11/07/2011 12:54 PM, johnt wrote:
Since you seem to not be aware of it
If so, do you consider yourself to be in cosmic consciousness or higher?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote:
Good question. I did TM for more than 30 years, but then about 7 or 8 years
ago, I lost the desire to do it. This happened quite quickly, as I recall,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote:
Sheeet. Â Is that what brainwashing is?
From: johnt johnlasher20002000@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 11:17 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife]
From: johnt johnlasher20002000@
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 11:17 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] WHY TM CAN'T BE LEARNED FROM A BOOK
Â
Why TM can't be learned from a book
A TM initiation alters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbxUXAMUeGk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@...
wrote:
Sheeet. please please do not make the walking mantra of my kids
public!!
Is that what brainwashing is?
From: johnt johnlasher20002000@...
thanks ..now finally i got it [:D]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:
Also why Guru Dev and Maharishi encouraged people to sit with saints.
The spiritual entrainment of the company you keep...a wide acceptance by
the medical community do adopt the practice of
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote:
Sheeet. Is that what brainwashing is?
Nope. It's not necessarily what *TM* is, either. I don't
know where johnt picked up this purported explanation,
but I've never encountered it in the TM context.
Denise, I do TM and I do not see it as brainwashing, other than washing the
brain of clutter, naturally. I like it. It makes me feel good.
All the crap of people trying to manipulate in the TMO, are only that of people
who had previously manipulating behaviors, IMHO, and not the result of
Entrainment...expressed beautifully in a song.
From: merudanda no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 4:30 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHY TM CAN'T BE LEARNED FROM A BOOK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 9:29 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHY TM CAN'T BE LEARNED FROM A BOOK
Denise, I do TM and I do not see it as brainwashing, other than washing the
brain of clutter, naturally. I like it. It makes me feel good.
All the crap of people
try reading some of Bandler and Grinder and some NLP research and educate
yourself or just stay stupid
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote:
Sheeet. Â Is that what brainwashing is?
From: johnt johnlasher20002000@...
@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:49 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHY TM CAN'T BE LEARNED FROM A BOOK
try reading some of Bandler and Grinder and some NLP research and educate
yourself or just stay stupid
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote
You never will in a TM context, but if you study some of Milton Erickson,
Bandler and Grinder and other related sources you will find that each part of a
TM initiation has a well studied neurolinguistic effect which in this case is
very effective at producing a self transcending accessing cue
charge is a nice ooga booga term that says nothing. It's only part of
philosophy not science unless you understand it in the sense of Rupert
sheldrake' morphic field, in which case your saying the same thing I am.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote:
That's a
@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:49 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHY TM CAN'T BE LEARNED FROM A BOOK
Â
try reading some of Bandler and Grinder and some NLP research and educate
yourself or just stay stupid
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Oh yes it does. Centuries of tantrics and yogis would argue with you on
that. These guys you are talking about are blind men feeling an
elephant. :-D
On 11/06/2011 06:00 PM, johnt wrote:
charge is a nice ooga booga term that says nothing. It's only part of
philosophy not science unless you
@
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:49 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHY TM CAN'T BE LEARNED FROM A BOOK
Â
try reading some of Bandler and Grinder and some NLP research and educate
yourself or just stay stupid
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise
Then what is it saying. Be precise I value tradition in the sense that it
preserves elements that are life supporting, it doesn't tell me how it works.
That's what modern psychologists are only beginning to try and do do. Vedic
masters were masters of what's now becoming NLP, however people
I'm talking about shakti which is an energy. You should be experiencing
it when you meditate. I can transfer that energy to someone else
without saying a word, just by touching them. So explain that by NLP.
You can't. They are going down the wrong road though they wouldn't be
the first
No one can explain what the shakti energy is yet but they certainly agree it
can be passed on through the process known as entrainment. There is some early
research that may indicate that shakti can be seen on kirlian photography and
others can be seen being entrained by it, but it's still
Ken Wilber's Integral Psychology offers a way of understanding religious
traditions while allowing that there are different levels of understanding. One
can be describing a tradition in a mythical manner with descriptions of deities
and magical forces. Then again one can describe the same thing
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