[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Denial? What is there to deny? If it's not there, it's not there. No denial needed if it doesn't exist. Hilarious. It always boils down to a question of just what is the Emperor wearing... Yes, thats a good view. Its what provokes my funnybone. 1) Brahaman say walk the plank and suck eggs 2) Cowboy Barry extolls the campfire creed, then in his action in his next few posts, breaks every rule: he laid down. 3) I have no ego, ANYWHERE, no-self Peter is quite thin-skinned and delicately sensitive to any teasing seeing them as insults. Who and what feels insulted when there is no ego or self? 4) Barry hears a couple of these emperor jokes and spews out pages of invective, hate and rage (apparently) at such stories and the storyteller -- and half the list -- about how he is cosmically stunned at how seekers can be so horrible to other seeker. What is curious, or maybe instructive, is that the emporers on this list never get the joke, never are able to laugh at themselves. Thats a key thing. In my observations, authentic spritual have a wonderful sense of humor, particularly about thems selves -- very humble and self-depricating when there is an opening to do so. And teasing of colleaues, pointing out foibles or pardoxes with their poking of fun. I guess it depends on which HAT the emperor is wearing as to whether or not you can accept his claims about his clothing... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 20, 2005, at 11:11 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Documentation of this exists where? And where's the evidence that what you are claiming actually involves the same processes as what TMers call TC? Not what we we were lead to believe was TC. As I pointed out on numerous occasions: keep in mind where the gap appears (when the mantra ends) there are 24 levels of subtlety below that in the practices Guru Dev practiced. That's just an example, not shared as some 'absolute rule'. Hopefully you get the point. HOw do you know that there are ONLY 24 levels below that? It's just an example. The idea is, it's pretty fricking subtle and 'let's appreciate the greatness of a Guru Dev.' But how do you know that Jim's experiences or mine or someone else's aren't as valid as the one that claims 24 levels? Maybe these levels are bypassed or are gone through so fast that many don't notice. Maybe there are more sub-levels that not everyone notices/goes through that weren't mentioned. Maybe TM practice naturally and effortlessly leads one through ALL of these levels without massive commitments of time, energy and changes in cultural viewpoint. Or maybe not. There's physiological evidence that there is such a state as TC during TM and there's physiological evidence that people who report having 24/7 expisodes of TC + waking/dreaming/sleeping for years at a time are showing a consistent physiological pattern. At least to the level of how MMY defines CC, this can be construed as scientific evidence of something CC-like, even though MMY doesn't assert (that I have heard) that most of these advanced TMers are fully in CC. He certainly doesn't claim that CC is the end-all of enlightenment though he does assert that someone fully in CC has left the wheel of karma behind if I understand him correctly. On the other hand, you cite an ancient authority whom you *interpret* as contradicting what MMY says, and offer no evidence that this ancient authority is correct, or even that your interpretation of said authority is correct. And you miss these points over and over and over again. Go figure. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Which leads me to conclude that these maps are general guides to one's experiences on the way to Brahman, but a rigid adherence to them, or strict interpretation of them may not be the wisest course. Kill that Buddha white boy. Kill that Buddha faaast... Be my guest. I don't know... There's just something a little odd about inviting the guest to sacrifice the boddhisatva... Why? Does the guest not exist? Good question. That wasn't what I was thinking about, but given that I was thinking about something in the first place... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 20, 2005, at 7:38 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 20, 2005, at 11:11 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Documentation of this exists where? And where's the evidence that what you are claiming actually involves the same processes as what TMers call TC? Not what we we were lead to believe was TC. As I pointed out on numerous occasions: keep in mind where the gap appears (when the mantra ends) there are 24 levels of subtlety below that in the practices Guru Dev practiced. That's just an example, not shared as some 'absolute rule'. Hopefully you get the point. HOw do you know that there are ONLY 24 levels below that? It's just an example. The idea is, it's pretty fricking subtle and 'let's appreciate the greatness of a Guru Dev.' But how do you know that Jim's experiences or mine or someone else's aren't as valid as the one that claims "24 levels?"Depends on the questions and the responses. Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't. Email is a pretty gross medium of communication.Let me explain it like this. You say "Vaj, I'm seeing the structure of atoms, its amazing!". I look at you and see you are looking through my old 400X optical microscope. You fully believe you are seeing atomic structure. In reality you are seeing the skin cells of your dandruff that flaked off onto a slide. In short, the means of examination (the old optical microscope) was not sufficient to see the level of subtlety that was being claimed. However, if you have been glimpsing your old cells through a state-of-the-art electron microscope, that might have been subtle enough to have investigated what you were claiming; that might have been acceptable method for investigation of the reality you were claiming to experience. Similarly there exists ways and degrees of subtlety for examining consciousness or specifically *pure consciousness*. These levels of observation also have well known, specific physiological requisites. So similar types of waking state inference can be applied for degrees of subtleby (and the phenomenon which occur at different levels of subtlety and awareness). Maybe these levels are bypassed or are gone through so fast that many don't notice. Maybe there are more sub-levels that not everyone notices/goes through that weren't mentioned.Wishful thinking. Then maybe mantras will appear in our minds and we'll all spontaneously start TMing away...We're all different, but to tread a path( way to get *somewhere*), you need a way (a method or technique) to get where you're going. You might have a car, but it's not likely for me to believe you when you claim "I received a Transcendental Car, it allows me to experience the entire manifest universe" when I know damn well, you can just drive more places than you used to be able to walk! Hell I wouldn't even believe you if you said you drove to Bermuda.Although I have to admit, it'd be real interesting to watch. Maybe TM practice naturally and effortlessly leads one through ALL of these levels without massive commitments of time, energy and changes in cultural viewpoint.The broader tradition which TM comes from will be the best way to see what that is, no? This is an old, old tradition and has been repeated by many before us. What can they share? Or perhaps you are under the delusion that it is "new", "revived" or somehow "recognized" LOL. Or maybe not. There's physiological evidence that there is such a "state" as TC during TM and there's physiological evidence that people who report having 24/7 expisodes of TC + waking/dreaming/sleeping for years at a time are showing a consistent physiological pattern.No. Actually it is what we've been told (conditioned) to believe was TC and also what we've been conditioned to believe, in extenso, was the scientific result of TC.Pavlov's meditator.Brain drool I guess. At least to the level of how MMY defines CC, this can be construed as scientific evidence of something CC-like,We might agree on "CC-like". even though MMY doesn't assert (that I have heard) that most of these "advanced" TMers are fully in CC. He certainly doesn't claim that CC is the end-all of enlightenment though he does assert that someone fully in CC has "left the wheel" of karma behind if I understand him correctly. On the other hand, you cite an ancient authority whom you *interpret* as contradicting what MMY says, and offer no evidence that this ancient authority is correct, or even that your interpretation of said authority is correct.Where are you saying that I contradict what MMY says in regards to Abhinavagupta?If you look close enough, you'll find that actually Mahesh possesses these precise same instructions. The question becomes "why weren't you told this?" But don't blame me for sharing it. And you miss these points over and over and over again. Go
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. But is the gap a goal to be strived for? Yes Kill that Buddha dude. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or were you referring to your own denial? That too. Is that self-referral denial I hear thats the best kind. Sort of a bubble of denial. I wouldn't know... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Denial? What is there to deny? If it's not there, it's not there. No denial needed if it doesn't exist. Hilarious. It always boils down to a question of just what is the Emperor wearing... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. Not sure how this fits into the bike analogy, but here goes: When I read The Seven Levels of the Gap posting, I was struck that I could recognize my experience of the first level in the first paragraph; the junction between waking, dreaming and sleeping, and then pretty much zip until I got to the second paragraph of level 5: your devotion changes to one of not knowing what's next, and then the second paragraph of step 6, especially, This force of bliss pierces the skull and the body becomes the universe. This is automatic. and then step 7. So my experience of TM, according to this menu, took me from appetizer straight to dessert. Maybe the other stuff has been there too, though if so, fleeting experiences that were either so natural or so transient that I didn't really notice. Interesting point made in the second paragraph of step 5: From this point on, there is no instruction given as to what to expect... You're just in denial... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
More Buddha-slayage... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it's one method amongst many to facilitate realization. --- Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. But is the gap a goal to be strived for? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 19, 2005, at 7:04 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. Not sure how this fits into the bike analogy, but here goes: When I read The Seven Levels of the Gap posting, I was struck that I could recognize my experience of the first level in the first paragraph; the junction between waking, dreaming and sleeping, and then pretty much zip until I got to the second paragraph of level 5: your devotion changes to one of not knowing what's next, and then the second paragraph of step 6, especially, This force of bliss pierces the skull and the body becomes the universe. This is automatic. and then step 7. So my experience of TM, according to this menu, took me from appetizer straight to dessert. Maybe the other stuff has been there too, though if so, fleeting experiences that were either so natural or so transient that I didn't really notice. Interesting point made in the second paragraph of step 5: From this point on, there is no instruction given as to what to expect... None of the techniques are taught in TM unfortunately. Unless you'd actually experienced what these entail, my guess would be you're mistaking the map for the road. For example, at the third level of turiya you would have mastered the subtle breath and could go into breath suspension for hours or days at a time... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 7:04 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. Not sure how this fits into the bike analogy, but here goes: When I read The Seven Levels of the Gap posting, I was struck that I could recognize my experience of the first level in the first paragraph; the junction between waking, dreaming and sleeping, and then pretty much zip until I got to the second paragraph of level 5: your devotion changes to one of not knowing what's next, and then the second paragraph of step 6, especially, This force of bliss pierces the skull and the body becomes the universe. This is automatic. and then step 7. So my experience of TM, according to this menu, took me from appetizer straight to dessert. Maybe the other stuff has been there too, though if so, fleeting experiences that were either so natural or so transient that I didn't really notice. Interesting point made in the second paragraph of step 5: From this point on, there is no instruction given as to what to expect... None of the techniques are taught in TM unfortunately. Unless you'd actually experienced what these entail, my guess would be you're mistaking the map for the road. For example, at the third level of turiya you would have mastered the subtle breath and could go into breath suspension for hours or days at a time... I was speaking above of my experience. I experienced the portions of the map I outlined above; that it was interesting to me that I could experience level one, then the next level I experienced was level five, then some of six, and seven. But nothing significant I can recall of levels two, three, and four. Interesting that just as the seven states of consciousness that TM is aligned with don't necessarily happen in a steady and sequential manner prior to full enlightenment, so the same with these seven levels of the gap. Which leads me to conclude that these maps are general guides to one's experiences on the way to Brahman, but a rigid adherence to them, or strict interpretation of them may not be the wisest course. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 7:04 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. Not sure how this fits into the bike analogy, but here goes: When I read The Seven Levels of the Gap posting, I was struck that I could recognize my experience of the first level in the first paragraph; the junction between waking, dreaming and sleeping, and then pretty much zip until I got to the second paragraph of level 5: your devotion changes to one of not knowing what's next, and then the second paragraph of step 6, especially, This force of bliss pierces the skull and the body becomes the universe. This is automatic. and then step 7. So my experience of TM, according to this menu, took me from appetizer straight to dessert. Maybe the other stuff has been there too, though if so, fleeting experiences that were either so natural or so transient that I didn't really notice. Interesting point made in the second paragraph of step 5: From this point on, there is no instruction given as to what to expect... None of the techniques are taught in TM unfortunately. Unless you'd actually experienced what these entail, my guess would be you're mistaking the map for the road. For example, at the third level of turiya you would have mastered the subtle breath and could go into breath suspension for hours or days at a time... Documentation of this exists where? And where's the evidence that what you are claiming actually involves the same processes as what TMers call TC? And if there's no instruction, which none of these techniques are you referring to? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Which leads me to conclude that these maps are general guides to one's experiences on the way to Brahman, but a rigid adherence to them, or strict interpretation of them may not be the wisest course. Kill that Buddha white boy. Kill that Buddha faaast... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Denial? What is there to deny? If it's not there, it's not there. No denial needed if it doesn't exist. Hilarious. It always boils down to a question of just what is the Emperor wearing... Or, apparently from recent postings, the character of the one doing the viewing of said Emperor. ;-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote:Documentation of this exists where? And where's the evidence that what you are claiming actually involves the same processes as what TMers call TC?Not what we we were lead to believe was TC. As I pointed out on numerous occasions: keep in mind where the gap appears (when the mantra ends) there are 24 levels of subtlety below that in the practices Guru Dev practiced. That's just an example, not shared as some 'absolute rule'. Hopefully you get the point. And if there's "no instruction," which "none of these techniques" are you referring to? They simply don't exist, what else can I say? However the "advanced" technique in TM of having the mantra in the hridayam is taught at the first level of turiya. Very important that. Love it! :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Which leads me to conclude that these maps are general guides to one's experiences on the way to Brahman, but a rigid adherence to them, or strict interpretation of them may not be the wisest course. Kill that Buddha white boy. Kill that Buddha faaast... Be my guest. I don't know... There's just something a little odd about inviting the guest to sacrifice the boddhisatva... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In the case of the path for the seven levels of turiya it is a concrete path, with precise practices along the way. It's good to have meditative experiences, but we should also not jump to wild conclusions about what they mean. So to clarify, these seven levels of gap as you have posted them relating to this specific practice, are described as happening just *during meditation*? If so, then it renders most of what I said irrelevant. Just curious, is this what you currently study? The reason I ask is that there is an etheric quality to your awareness sometimes that has intrigued me. Could be related to some meditative practices as you describe here? As I said, unfortunately these practices and the specific nature of the experiences (and what they entail) are just not taught in TM. But I'm sure if anyone who practices TM experiences cessation for hours they'll want to study that! But that is not a level of subtlety we should expect for the practices we were given any more than we should expect the most expensive car we can buy to be able to drive us to the moon. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Documentation of this exists where? And where's the evidence that what you are claiming actually involves the same processes as what TMers call TC? Not what we we were lead to believe was TC. As I pointed out on numerous occasions: keep in mind where the gap appears (when the mantra ends) there are 24 levels of subtlety below that in the practices Guru Dev practiced. That's just an example, not shared as some 'absolute rule'. Hopefully you get the point. HOw do you know that there are ONLY 24 levels below that? And if there's no instruction, which none of these techniques are you referring to? They simply don't exist, what else can I say? However the advanced technique in TM of having the mantra in the hridayam is taught at the first level of turiya. Very important that. Love it! :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Denial? What is there to deny? If it's not there, it's not there. No denial needed if it doesn't exist. Hilarious. It always boils down to a question of just what is the Emperor wearing... Yes, thats a good view. Its what provokes my funnybone. 1) Brahaman say walk the plank and suck eggs 2) Cowboy Barry extolls the campfire creed, then in his action in his next few posts, breaks every rule: he laid down. 3) I have no ego, ANYWHERE, no-self Peter is quite thin-skinned and delicately sensitive to any teasing seeing them as insults. Who and what feels insulted when there is no ego or self? 4) Barry hears a couple of these emperor jokes and spews out pages of invective, hate and rage (apparently) at such stories and the storyteller -- and half the list -- about how he is cosmically stunned at how seekers can be so horrible to other seeker. What is curious, or maybe instructive, is that the emporers on this list never get the joke, never are able to laugh at themselves. Thats a key thing. In my observations, authentic spritual have a wonderful sense of humor, particularly about thems selves -- very humble and self-depricating when there is an opening to do so. And teasing of colleaues, pointing out foibles or pardoxes with their poking of fun. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 20, 2005, at 11:12 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In the case of the path for the seven levels of turiya it is a concrete path, with precise practices along the way. It's good to have meditative experiences, but we should also not jump to wild conclusions about what they mean. So to clarify, these seven levels of gap as you have posted them relating to this specific practice, are described as happening just *during meditation*? If so, then it renders most of what I said irrelevant.Signposts at different levels of subtlety. Primarily meditation, yes. Krama mudra is integrated into activity. Just curious, is this what you currently study? The reason I ask is that there is an etheric quality to your awareness sometimes that has intrigued me. Could be related to some meditative practices as you describe here? I have studied and practiced anuttara tantra from the Shaivite side, but my practice is not Shaivite, but non-sectarian practicing anuttara and non-dual tantra. I appreciate all the anuttara-tantras and the non-dual schools; flavor doesn't matter...it's all wonderful.I only mention this specific example because M.'s concept of the "gap" came from this school, and it's nice to share the whole thing, the real thing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 20, 2005, at 11:11 AM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Documentation of this exists where? And where's the evidence that what you are claiming actually involves the same processes as what TMers call TC? Not what we we were lead to believe was TC. As I pointed out on numerous occasions: keep in mind where the gap appears (when the mantra ends) there are 24 levels of subtlety below that in the practices Guru Dev practiced. That's just an example, not shared as some 'absolute rule'. Hopefully you get the point. HOw do you know that there are ONLY 24 levels below that? It's just an example. The idea is, it's pretty fricking subtle and 'let's appreciate the greatness of a Guru Dev.' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 20, 2005, at 11:12 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In the case of the path for the seven levels of turiya it is a concrete path, with precise practices along the way. It's good to have meditative experiences, but we should also not jump to wild conclusions about what they mean. So to clarify, these seven levels of gap as you have posted them relating to this specific practice, are described as happening just *during meditation*? If so, then it renders most of what I said irrelevant. Signposts at different levels of subtlety. Primarily meditation, yes. Krama mudra is integrated into activity. Just curious, is this what you currently study? The reason I ask is that there is an etheric quality to your awareness sometimes that has intrigued me. Could be related to some meditative practices as you describe here? I have studied and practiced anuttara tantra from the Shaivite side, but my practice is not Shaivite, but non-sectarian practicing anuttara and non-dual tantra. I appreciate all the anuttara- tantras and the non-dual schools; flavor doesn't matter...it's all wonderful. I only mention this specific example because M.'s concept of the gap came from this school, and it's nice to share the whole thing, the real thing. Sounds great! Thanks. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
At one time I would have believed this but I have serious doubts at this point. It would certainly be to the advantage of a guru (or all gurus) to propagate this belief: this way you can always be beholden to the guru. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without the shakti of the guru, a mantra, while having some effects, will not produce them same effect as a mantra that has been charged with shakti. MMY even mentioned this once when asked if people who read one of the TM mantras from a newspaper and start to meditate with it would experience any benefits. He said they would, but it would be very slow. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one time I would have believed this but I have serious doubts at this point. It would certainly be to the advantage of a guru (or all gurus) to propagate this belief: this way you can always be beholden to the guru. Not really- just have to learn the mantra from one. Then you're on your own... In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without the shakti of the guru, a mantra, while having some effects, will not produce them same effect as a mantra that has been charged with shakti. MMY even mentioned this once when asked if people who read one of the TM mantras from a newspaper and start to meditate with it would experience any benefits. He said they would, but it would be very slow. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At one time I would have believed this but I have serious doubts at
this point. It would certainly be to the advantage of a guru (or all
gurus) to propagate this belief: this way you can always be beholden
to the guru.
Such a misunderstanding of guru, you have.
something worthy of eternal gratitude, useless you think.
Results of following a wolf in sheep's clothing, it is.
Losing faith? Do not.
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Without the shakti of the guru, a mantra, while having
some effects, will not produce them same effect as a
mantra that has been charged with shakti. MMY even
mentioned this once when asked if people who read one
of the TM mantras from a newspaper and start to
meditate with it would experience any benefits. He
said they would, but it would be very slow.
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[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one time I would have believed this but I have serious doubts at this point. It would certainly be to the advantage of a guru (or all gurus) to propagate this belief: this way you can always be beholden to the guru. Not really- just have to learn the mantra from one. Then you're on your own... In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without the shakti of the guru, a mantra, while having some effects, will not produce them same effect as a mantra that has been charged with shakti. MMY even mentioned this once when asked if people who read one of the TM mantras from a newspaper and start to meditate with it would experience any benefits. He said they would, but it would be very slow. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. I have noticed over the years a sort of objectless inward stroke (meditation, flow) occurs by itself.. It can happen with eyes closed or in activity. With eyes closed, there is not an intent to meditate. Nor a will to drop thoughts. Its more lke falling off a cliff, or for skiers, simply letting go of any resistance (poles, edges) and let IT happen. Similar in activity. Its like awarenss rolls back nto itself. Starting like -- as an analogy -- rolling ones eyes back up into forehead and as if then looking backwards into the brain. In a parallel fashion, awareness seems to fold backwards, and then collapses -- like a dog who falls to the floor in a comfy, puppy like curled up postion. The latter, in activity, happens with the body in motion. But the active mind stops. It can create Bliss -- (which doesn't appear dumb to me -- contray to the experiene of some others) -- it seems parallel to pizo-electic devices -- in which current flows when pressure is applied to the pizo device. The process of folding awarness back into itself, puts sufficent, tough subtle, pressure on awareness such that bliss is sqeazed out. A deeper level of awarness folding into itself, a type of object-less inward stroke (aka meditation) occurs with both the body in motion, and the mind / intellect complex in motion. And the intellect clearly recognizes the awarness backward fold, (or like awareness taking backward dive off a diving board) as sometbing distinct from itself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 19, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote:Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big "E".As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.'Ouch. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. **SNIP TO END** Agreed. For a long-time TM-meditator, atma-vichara is amazingly effective. Once I read Nisargadatta and followed his simple advice regarding abiding wordlessly in the I Am -- one's own sense of presence (essentially the same as Ramana Maharshi's who am I?, but subtly different and, for me, fundamentally so) -- it was extraordinary. To realize that Self *really* was Self. And that all these years I'd been steeping in it during meditation while looking for it or expecting it to show up like something else. I think Vaj has referred to this in earlier posts as meditation without support as opposed to mantra meditation in which the mantra ia, obviously, the support. This no-thought meditation is sweet, indeed. Samadhi on tap. Marek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
What if the Guru that gave it to you is not enlightened or uses a student (TM teacher) to give it. I noticed when people asked Ama ji she differentiated between those taught directly by MMY or those taught be a tm teacher. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one time I would have believed this but I have serious doubts at this point. It would certainly be to the advantage of a guru (or all gurus) to propagate this belief: this way you can always be beholden to the guru. Not really- just have to learn the mantra from one. Then you're on your own... In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without the shakti of the guru, a mantra, while having some effects, will not produce them same effect as a mantra that has been charged with shakti. MMY even mentioned this once when asked if people who read one of the TM mantras from a newspaper and start to meditate with it would experience any benefits. He said they would, but it would be very slow. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
Lineage, lineage, lineage. It's the morphogenetic field of the mantra. Oh yeah, and lineage. Lineage should take you back to the source of the mantras original cognition. The best way to get a mantra is in the same way it originally manifested or from someone who experienced a fresh manifestation of that sound at the para and pashyanti level.On Dec 19, 2005, at 2:32 PM, johnlasher20002000 wrote:What if the Guru that gave it to you is not enlightened or uses a student (TM teacher) to give it. I noticed when people asked Ama ji she differentiated between those taught directly by MMY or those taught be a tm teacher. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnlasher20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if the Guru that gave it to you is not enlightened or uses a student (TM teacher) to give it. I noticed when people asked Ama ji she differentiated between those taught directly by MMY or those taught be a tm teacher. Doesn't make a difference because the puja tunes the teacher's heart to Shiva/Guru Dev. Oops, IMHO- whew! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one time I would have believed this but I have serious doubts at this point. It would certainly be to the advantage of a guru (or all gurus) to propagate this belief: this way you can always be beholden to the guru. Not really- just have to learn the mantra from one. Then you're on your own... In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without the shakti of the guru, a mantra, while having some effects, will not produce them same effect as a mantra that has been charged with shakti. MMY even mentioned this once when asked if people who read one of the TM mantras from a newspaper and start to meditate with it would experience any benefits. He said they would, but it would be very slow. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
'Big E' in England is being given the 'Elbow' - being dismissed. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lineage, lineage, lineage. It's the morphogenetic field of the mantra. Oh yeah, and lineage. Lineage should take you back to the source of the mantras original cognition. The best way to get a mantra is in the same way it originally manifested or from someone who experienced a fresh manifestation of that sound at the para and pashyanti level. The mystical side of me says. groovy.(1) Statements and claims such as the above have fascinated and attacted me since my teens, and actually young childhood. However the rational side of me asks why?. If it is sound, the full wave characteristics are embedded in the sound. Does linneage change the wave form? I supect not. So what is the THERE there that lineage adds to the wave form? What is that (neo)ooga-booga (neo in that it is current slang, not a past racial epitath.)(2) The mystical but wondering side of me thinks, well maybe its sort of like a live rose vs a dead rose. Chemically they may be the same, but clearly there is a difference. The analytical side says, well chemicaly only maybe. But if you did an infrared analysis or something, you could easily see a difference. An a minimum, less heat. And no aspiration flow or air and sap.. The analytical side says, well I am open to some actual 'ogga-boogafrom linneage being there, I just don't understand what that is -- it must have has some relative structure -- even if very subtle. +++ Interpretative KEYS + Key to a) satire, b) sarcasm, c) irony, d)parody, e) mimicing, f) self-mocking g) unsarcastic social mocking h) wink wink and i) angry confrontation) -- (1) Thats mainly an f. With a touch of g. (2) its not intended as a b), though I will let Judy be the judge if its receivd that way. Its more an homage and acknowledgment that I get the point, but also a recognition that many blacks and much of the society use the term with no demeaning intent. Maybe this is more of a (h). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
I'm not clear what you mean by that. You mean the scorpio nation thing?On Dec 19, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote:'Big E' in England is being given the 'Elbow' - being dismissed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. But is the gap a goal to be strived for? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lineage, lineage, lineage. It's the morphogenetic field of the mantra. Oh yeah, and lineage. Lineage should take you back to the source of the mantras original cognition. The best way to get a mantra is in the same way it originally manifested or from someone who experienced a fresh manifestation of that sound at the para and pashyanti level. The mystical side of me says. groovy.(1) Statements and claims such as the above have fascinated and attacted me since my teens, and actually young childhood. However the rational side of me asks why?. If it is sound, the full wave characteristics are embedded in the sound. Does linneage change the wave form? I supect not. So what is the THERE there that lineage adds to the wave form? What is that (neo)ooga-booga (neo in that it is current slang, not a past racial epitath.)(2) The mystical but wondering side of me thinks, well maybe its sort of like a live rose vs a dead rose. Chemically they may be the same, but clearly there is a difference. The analytical side says, well chemicaly only maybe. But if you did an infrared analysis or something, you could easily see a difference. An a minimum, less heat. And no aspiration flow or air and sap.. The analytical side says, well I am open to some actual 'ogga-boogafrom linneage being there, I just don't understand what that is -- it must have has some relative structure -- even if very subtle. I'm not understanding the premise of this argument; Are you saying that if you recieve a mantra from someone who is experiencing the source of that mantra(from an enlightened person); Then somehow you will be empowered to become enlightened faster? My understanding is that the performance of the Puja, sets up a state for the teacher to enter a pure ego-less state, at that moment after performing Puja, and the mantra is given. As far as any perception of the mantra from the finest level, would have to be experienced by the meditator; The whole purpose of meditation, is to refine perception, and to become familiar with the transcendant. Maharishi has always said, that it is the experience that we are giving, in TM. And that experience must be experienced. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnlasher20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if the Guru that gave it to you is not enlightened or uses a student (TM teacher) to give it. I noticed when people asked Ama ji she differentiated between those taught directly by MMY or those taught be a tm teacher. She knew this intuitively, or just by asking? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one time I would have believed this but I have serious doubts at this point. It would certainly be to the advantage of a guru (or all gurus) to propagate this belief: this way you can always be beholden to the guru. Not really- just have to learn the mantra from one. Then you're on your own... In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without the shakti of the guru, a mantra, while having some effects, will not produce them same effect as a mantra that has been charged with shakti. MMY even mentioned this once when asked if people who read one of the TM mantras from a newspaper and start to meditate with it would experience any benefits. He said they would, but it would be very slow. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. **SNIP TO END** Agreed. For a long-time TM-meditator, atma-vichara is amazingly effective. Once I read Nisargadatta and followed his simple advice regarding abiding wordlessly in the I Am -- one's own sense of presence (essentially the same as Ramana Maharshi's who am I?, but subtly different and, for me, fundamentally so) -- it was extraordinary. To realize that Self *really* was Self. And that all these years I'd been steeping in it during meditation while looking for it or expecting it to show up like something else. I think Vaj has referred to this in earlier posts as meditation without support as opposed to mantra meditation in which the mantra ia, obviously, the support. This no-thought meditation is sweet, indeed. Samadhi on tap. Marek But is this a good thing? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 19, 2005, at 3:01 PM, braaahmaan wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lineage, lineage, lineage. It's the morphogenetic field of the mantra. Oh yeah, and lineage. Lineage should take you back to the source of the mantras original cognition. The best way to get a mantra is in the same way it originally manifested or from someone who experienced a fresh manifestation of that sound at the para and pashyanti level. The mystical side of me says. "groovy".(1) Statements and claims such as the above have fascinated and attacted me since my teens, and actually young childhood. However the rational side of me asks "why?". If it is sound, the full wave characteristics are embedded in the sound. Does linneage change the wave form? I supect not. So what is the "THERE there" that lineage adds to the wave form? What is that (neo)ooga-booga (neo in that it is current slang, not a past racial epitath.)(2)There's not alot in the rational world that would explain this. However Rupert Sheldrake's theory of formative causation and morphogenetic fields intuitively seems right on. He gives the example of scietists who trying to crystallize certain organic compounds. When one succeeds, then it becomes easier for people, even removed by great distances to do the same. In short: nature has memory.There is also, for me, a common sense aspect too. It only makes sense if an adept ties into a state of consciousness, he can provide the keys to re-experience that. Traditionally these are guru yogas. It is not unusual for each specific line of practice to have it's own unique guru yoga that ties you directly into the current of that teaching. This is amazing to experience, because you can be a fumbling novice, but with guru yoga the amazing and the impossible does happen. Your practice can bear fruit in a very short time. Having said that, most if not all McMeditation methods do NOT include guru mantra or guru yoga as a quick way to tap into the current of the teaching.Also since most mantras were the seed of a deities own dimension, teachers who have profound experience of that dimension themselves can introduce the student directly through visualization, mudra and mantra. Want to experience the tree, get someone to plant the seed inside you and then share the watering technique. The mystical but wondering side of me thinks, well maybe its sort of like a live rose vs a dead rose. Chemically they may be the same, but clearly there is a difference. The analytical side says, well chemicaly only maybe. But if you did an infrared analysis or something, you could easily see a difference. An a minimum, less heat. And no "aspiration" flow or air and "sap".. The analytical side says, well I am open to some actual 'ogga-booga"from linneage being there, I just don't understand what that is -- it must have has some "relative" structure -- even if very subtle. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big "E". As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. It is also amazing what denial can lead to... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:43 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big "E". As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. It is also amazing what denial can lead to... Denial? What is there to deny? If it's not there, it's not there. No denial needed if it doesn't exist. Or were you referring to your own denial? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. It is also amazing what denial can lead to... Denial? What is there to deny? If it's not there, it's not there. No denial needed if it doesn't exist. But what if it DOES exist and you've somehow missed it? Or were you referring to your own denial? That too. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
no, I left a word out. I was just saying that in England, 'Big E' MEANS 'being given the Elbow' i.e. being dismissed, dispensed with, etc. I think when you use the term 'Big E' you are referring to something completely opposite in meaning. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not clear what you mean by that. You mean the scorpio nation thing? On Dec 19, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote: 'Big E' in England is being given the 'Elbow' - being dismissed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or were you referring to your own denial? That too. Is that self-referral denial I hear thats the best kind. Sort of a bubble of denial. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
Yes --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. But is the gap a goal to be strived for? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, I left a word out. I was just saying that in England, 'Big E' MEANS 'being given the Elbow' i.e. being dismissed, dispensed with, etc. I think when you use the term 'Big E' you are referring to something completely opposite in meaning. I suppose when the little e is given the Big E, it resultes in Big E. If one is in jolly ol' E. And perhaps in the Big Easy, where little e's are scarfed down like crawfish. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/HcoraC/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Denial? What is there to deny? If it's not there, it's not there. No denial needed if it doesn't exist. Hilarious. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:30 PM, sparaig wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, part of the point of the post was that although TM uses the idea of the gap/sandhi to explain TM; in the full idea of what that entails, TM only goes as far as 1 or 1.5 out of 7. There are a whole slew of other methods beyond that to reach the big E. As a person offlist said to me that's what you call 'we were given one wheel, and lead to believe we had the whole bike.' Ouch. Or perhaps you only recognize one wheel even though all of them are inherent in TM. Clearly this is not the case. It's amazing what clever marketing can do. Not sure how this fits into the bike analogy, but here goes: When I read The Seven Levels of the Gap posting, I was struck that I could recognize my experience of the first level in the first paragraph; the junction between waking, dreaming and sleeping, and then pretty much zip until I got to the second paragraph of level 5: your devotion changes to one of not knowing what's next, and then the second paragraph of step 6, especially, This force of bliss pierces the skull and the body becomes the universe. This is automatic. and then step 7. So my experience of TM, according to this menu, took me from appetizer straight to dessert. Maybe the other stuff has been there too, though if so, fleeting experiences that were either so natural or so transient that I didn't really notice. Interesting point made in the second paragraph of step 5: From this point on, there is no instruction given as to what to expect... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
Well, it's one method amongst many to facilitate realization. --- Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone recently said to me that cults can only sell scaffolding. Scaffolding can be a superfluous encumbrence unless there is that need for support whilst accessing difficult to reach places. There was a posting recently about 'the gap'. Essentially, TMers are being directed at finding this gap and prolonging the experience of not experiencing thought. But has anyone else noticed that the repetition of a mantra can sometimes be counterproductive in that in filling the gap, it appears sometimes to delay the experience of no thought? I have noticed that a swifter route to the gap is dropping thought altogether, just willing it. But is the gap a goal to be strived for? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guru empowered mantras (was Re: TMO as a valid employer)
--- brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one time I would have believed this but I have serious doubts at this point. It would certainly be to the advantage of a guru (or all gurus) to propagate this belief: this way you can always be beholden to the guru. Such a misunderstanding of guru, you have. something worthy of eternal gratitude, useless you think. Results of following a wolf in sheep's clothing, it is. Losing faith? Do not. Yoda's back! In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without the shakti of the guru, a mantra, while having some effects, will not produce them same effect as a mantra that has been charged with shakti. MMY even mentioned this once when asked if people who read one of the TM mantras from a newspaper and start to meditate with it would experience any benefits. He said they would, but it would be very slow. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
