[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, which perhaps is another way of saying, don't waste time and energy judging others. Well, I'm not saying don't do it; I'm just trying to point out its illusory, or more accurately self-reflective, basis. Because one lacks the appropriate reference points to others' lives -- as you point out. And because there is no other, as far as we can actually tell. There is only self in various positions in space-time, superimposed upon the (extra)ordinary Indescribable. But as much or more, its an unnecessary chatter of the mind, this is good, he is bad, she is ok, that is good ... One only needs to judge others if and when one must make a decision regarding that person. Whic is 1 out of 100 or 1/1000 common monkey-mind judgements. The others are idle chatter. (all apologies to monkeys). That we often can only see others from our own frame of reference, our cultural/religious/intellectual, emotional frameworks, perhaps is a famine of imagination. I was thinking this morning that this quality of empathy and really seeing from anothers' view needs to be cultured in childhood when the mind is nimbe and formative. I saw a squirrel dart in from of my car and he was terrified, running valiantly across the road as I swerved to miss it (which I did.) The reality of the situation was my view: little tiny squirrel, regular sized car. snip Yeah, it's funny -- often to me, when I see these little fellows jump out in front of my car, they seem to be playing an ecstatic game of tag! Or missed me, missed me, hahahahaha! As you say, just my mental superimposition :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: Yes, which perhaps is another way of saying, don't waste time and energy judging others. Well, I'm not saying don't do it; I'm just trying to point out its illusory, or more accurately self-reflective, basis. Because one lacks the appropriate reference points to others' lives -- as you point out. And because there is no other, as far as we can actually tell. There is only self in various positions in space-time, superimposed upon the (extra)ordinary Indescribable. But as much or more, its an unnecessary chatter of the mind, this is good, he is bad, she is ok, that is good ... One only needs to judge others if and when one must make a decision regarding that person. Whic is 1 out of 100 or 1/1000 common monkey-mind judgements. The others are idle chatter. (all apologies to monkeys). That we often can only see others from our own frame of reference, our cultural/religious/intellectual, emotional frameworks, perhaps is a famine of imagination. I was thinking this morning that this quality of empathy and really seeing from anothers' view needs to be cultured in childhood when the mind is nimbe and formative. I saw a squirrel dart in from of my car and he was terrified, running valiantly across the road as I swerved to miss it (which I did.) The reality of the situation was my view: little tiny squirrel, regular sized car. snip Yeah, it's funny -- often to me, when I see these little fellows jump out in front of my car, they seem to be playing an ecstatic game of tag! Or missed me, missed me, hahahahaha! As you say, just my mental superimposition :-) This whole judge/don't judge dynamic intrigues me. There seems to be a skill in action involved tied directly to our ability to develop or not attributes of character, through judging/not judging. In other words, make a judgement to move forward, yet hesitate too long in either direction and it unhelpfully skews either the direction of the momentum or the speed of it. Curious stuff. As you say Rory, it is all us interacting with us. And yet to fully honor us, we must engage with even the sticky bits of us.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This whole judge/don't judge dynamic intrigues me. There seems to be a skill in action involved tied directly to our ability to develop or not attributes of character, through judging/not judging. In other words, make a judgement to move forward, yet hesitate too long in either direction and it unhelpfully skews either the direction of the momentum or the speed of it. Curious stuff. As you say Rory, it is all us interacting with us. And yet to fully honor us, we must engage with even the sticky bits of us. Yes! Apparently we must, or so our Heart tells us. How else to re-mind and re-member ourself? :-D
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: This whole judge/don't judge dynamic intrigues me. There seems to be a skill in action involved tied directly to our ability to develop or not attributes of character, through judging/not judging. In other words, make a judgement to move forward, yet hesitate too long in either direction and it unhelpfully skews either the direction of the momentum or the speed of it. Curious stuff. As you say Rory, it is all us interacting with us. And yet to fully honor us, we must engage with even the sticky bits of us. Yes! Apparently we must, or so our Heart tells us. How else to re- mind and re-member ourself? :-D Ah yes! Thanks for the re-minder! lol! Hope you are enjoying a great day!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, sorry, I was hoping the like that, like that would ironically belie my apparent distancing from the TBs, as truly I have nothing against them and am actually profoundly impressed with their devotion, purity and sattva. They are actually *very* real to me. It used to bother me that they seemed so self-absorbed that they could not see me, but I have found that the more I rest in my own Being and appreciate their innate and exquisite perfection, the more they rest in theirs and see mine, and there is only deeper and deeper love between us. They are my devotees, as I am theirs. Again, no worries, mate! :-) *L*L*L* Yes, I see there being two phases to the process, the TB process where one follows the guru and tunes one's mind and heart to Him perfectly, so that when it is time to learn to fly, one's faith in the guru and the guru-mind that one now carries will allow each of us to ascend at that time to our own unbounded freedom, no longer tethered to the guru, but set limitlessly free. The second phase could be called TBE, True Believer in Everything, because one is now at the point where every moment, every singularity is offered up on the throne of the Divine, as an instantaneous opportunity to turn Infinity as one desires, the much vaunted Field of All Possibilities in action. When I remarked that your expression of the word sweet was real, it was not meant as a criticism of the cherished True Believer devotion, but rather a recognition that you are a knower of Reality; dynamic, instantaneopus Infinity, more TBE than TB. That's all.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I see there being two phases to the process, the TB process where one follows the guru and tunes one's mind and heart to Him perfectly, so that when it is time to learn to fly, one's faith in the guru and the guru-mind that one now carries will allow each of us to ascend at that time to our own unbounded freedom, no longer tethered to the guru, but set limitlessly free. The second phase could be called TBE, True Believer in Everything, because one is now at the point where every moment, every singularity is offered up on the throne of the Divine, as an instantaneous opportunity to turn Infinity as one desires, the much vaunted Field of All Possibilities in action. When I remarked that your expression of the word sweet was real, it was not meant as a criticism of the cherished True Believer devotion, but rather a recognition that you are a knower of Reality; dynamic, instantaneopus Infinity, more TBE than TB. That's all. Sweet! :-) Yes, although in one sense spacetime and growth is a big joke, on the other hand I think M. Scott Peck put it really well when he outlined four stages of growth: 1) Chaos, 2) Fundamentalism, 3) Eclecticism, 4) Love. He points out that a being identifying with any given stage cannot see above or beyond where it is, but can only interpret others as being in its own stage (one of us) or in any stages already recognized and below it, which (generally) it is reacting against as evil. Thus a fundamentalist (2), only familiar with (1) chaos and (2) fundamentalism, would interpret an eclectic (3) as being a non-fundamentalist, hence as chaotic, or evil (1). Similarly, an eclectic (3) can only interpret Love (4) as being non-eclectic, or somehow fundamentalist/chaotic, now synonymous with evil (2). I remember exactly when I first recognized unconditional Love as an actual presence or state, irrespective of person, and while I was instantly attracted to it, knew I had to Be it, it also scared the bejeezus out of me, as I realized that its very presence destroyed all my carefully-built-up scholarship and discrimination and mastery of eclecticism, everything I had identified with, revealing its core- nature of semi-conscious competition, power, etc. (this was in Harvard Divinity School). Not surprisingly, this glimpse also triggered the onset of a two-year Dark Night of the Soul :-) *L*L*L*
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yes, I see there being two phases to the process, the TB process where one follows the guru and tunes one's mind and heart to Him perfectly, so that when it is time to learn to fly, one's faith in the guru and the guru-mind that one now carries will allow each of us to ascend at that time to our own unbounded freedom, no longer tethered to the guru, but set limitlessly free. The second phase could be called TBE, True Believer in Everything, because one is now at the point where every moment, every singularity is offered up on the throne of the Divine, as an instantaneous opportunity to turn Infinity as one desires, the much vaunted Field of All Possibilities in action. When I remarked that your expression of the word sweet was real, it was not meant as a criticism of the cherished True Believer devotion, but rather a recognition that you are a knower of Reality; dynamic, instantaneopus Infinity, more TBE than TB. That's all. Sweet! :-) Yes, although in one sense spacetime and growth is a big joke, on the other hand I think M. Scott Peck put it really well when he outlined four stages of growth: 1) Chaos, 2) Fundamentalism, 3) Eclecticism, 4) Love. He points out that a being identifying with any given stage cannot see above or beyond where it is, but can only interpret others as being in its own stage (one of us) or in any stages already recognized and below it, which (generally) it is reacting against as evil. Thus a fundamentalist (2), only familiar with (1) chaos and (2) fundamentalism, would interpret an eclectic (3) as being a non-fundamentalist, hence as chaotic, or evil (1). Similarly, an eclectic (3) can only interpret Love (4) as being non-eclectic, or somehow fundamentalist/chaotic, now synonymous with evil (2). I remember exactly when I first recognized unconditional Love as an actual presence or state, irrespective of person, and while I was instantly attracted to it, knew I had to Be it, it also scared the bejeezus out of me, as I realized that its very presence destroyed all my carefully-built-up scholarship and discrimination and mastery of eclecticism, everything I had identified with, revealing its core- nature of semi-conscious competition, power, etc. (this was in Harvard Divinity School). Not surprisingly, this glimpse also triggered the onset of a two-year Dark Night of the Soul :-) *L*L*L* Yes, spacetime and growth *are* a big joke, and while we are laughing at them, they are laughing right back at us, watching our every move, evaluating, seeing if we are slave or master, with neck, hand and leg-irons at the ready! Ha-Ha! You are bringing out the mirth and giggles in me again...could we call the Peck stages, 1- sleepwalking, 2-awakened point value, 3-awakened multi-point value, 4-awakened infinite point value, which then transcends its point value altogether? A beautiful model. It certainly explains the dynamics here on FFL sometimes where the eclectics (you know who you are! hehe) will mistake a state of unconditional love for that of fundamentalism and/or chaos. And I can totally relate to that moment of recognition when unconditional Love was recognized clearly and unmistakably by me as the goal and being simultaneously completely terrified! HA-HA! Seems gently silly now, but at the time and whenever I would think of it afterwards, I'd have a visceral reaction like I knew I could no longer hide in my skin. Unnerving to say the least. Like the joke about the General watching the opposing army advance on him, and he turns to his aide, and barks, Bring me my brown pants!. In any case, yes, all that is left after that is the steady and exciting journey towards death and dissolution (!), all resistance is futile. Once bitten by the Supreme Love Bug we all succumb eventually. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
TurquoiseB wrote: Back in the trashbin you go. Oh, my God! Barry put Jim back in the trashbin. That occured to me when writing it up. The exact *same* story can be pointed to by God freaks Where did that term come from? Is that the opposite of atheist freaks? Yes, and it's totally innocuous. It's a lingering Sixties-ism in my speech. So far on FFL I have used the term dozens of times, in contexts such as enlightenment freak and Bruce Cockburn freak or music freak (both referring to myself), or neat freak, or Mongo freak (referring to fans of a certain short fictional detective). It's a slang way of referring to the odd things that some people get off on. It has no negative connotations, except, seemingly, in your mind. And what's a God freak anyway? I think the term freak is possibly reserved for those pushing an agenda, as it appears you are doing now, my dear Buddhist atheist. Jim, since you stopped actively slamming me, I've taken a chance and replied to a few of your posts as if you were an adult, and as if you were actually a rational human being. My mistake. Back in the trashbin you go. Someday (in my opinion) you should try a little introspection and try to view yourself as others see you, not as you like to see yourself. First you react to me suggesting that Guru Dev would be shocked to hear himself referred to as His Divinity by his followers as if what I said was some kind of an insult. It was intended to be a *compliment*, dude. The term used to honor him by some...uh...Guru Dev freaks IMO *belittles* him, *belittles* a teacher of enlightenment, and *belittles* the whole process of enlightenment in my opinion, and that was what I intended to convey. But you perceived it as some kind of insult, and reacted as if you *personally* had been insulted. That's YOUR problem, dude, not mine. And now you take offense at a simple Sixties-ism, get all huffy and offended, and start hurling terms like atheist and Buddhist as if *they* were insults. Can't you *feel* the emotional loading that *you* place on such terms? I sure can, and I'd be willing to bet a few others on this forum have developed their intuition to the point that they can feel it, too. So back in the trashbin with you, dude. It's not worth trying to communicate with you if you're going to be so cluelessly reactive here. For the record, I don't care what other people believe, about God or about Guru Dev. I'm just trippin' on language, and occasionally pointing out when people make statements or ask questions based on *assumptions*. Their entire followup statement or question is based on *accepting* the assumption as true; otherwise the followup statement or question has no meaning. To react to the statement or to answer the question, one has to *accept* the assumption as true. Some of us don't accept those assumptions, is all. My agenda is merely to point out these assumptions when they occur, which is clearly in the spirit defined for this group on its main page. The vast majority of people on this planet believe in God, so much so that it has become a never-challenged assumption on their part. Some of *them* react strongly when someone points out the fact that it *is* an assumption, and a completely unproven assumption at that. It seems to me that this is what's going on here with your response. Despite your claim, you *are* trying to start something. Instead, by acting like a petulant child, you have ended something instead, my experiment in seeing if you could have a rational conver- sation without...uh...freaking out when you encounter ideas that differ from yours. I wish you the best of luck with your life and your beliefs. May they both make you very happy. But dude...I'm just TIRED of all the prepubes- cent arguing here, and want to spend what little time I spend here talking with adults who can treat ideas that differ from their own ideas as Just Ideas, not some kind of attack. You don't seem to be one of those people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
Peter wrote: Lurk, what the f**k is your problem, you a**hole! ;-) Very impressive, Peter.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think M. Scott Peck put it really well when he outlined four stages of growth: 1) Chaos, 2) Fundamentalism, 3) Eclecticism, 4) Love. Interesting model. It could describe my TMO journey -- perhaps others also. Chaos -- the seekings stage looking for IT. Fundamentalism -- Having found IT, being totally committed to it. Spreading the Word. Eclectic -- some disenchantment leads to branching out to other views and methods. Love -- love for TMO and its wave in the 60's an 70's, and love for all true traditions and schools. And for all seekers and finders. And I am sure many have found stages 5, 6, and 7. He points out that a being identifying with any given stage cannot see above or beyond where it is, but can only interpret others as being in its own stage (one of us) or in any stages already recognized and below it, which (generally) it is reacting against as evil. Thus a fundamentalist (2), only familiar with (1) chaos and (2) fundamentalism, would interpret an eclectic (3) as being a non-fundamentalist, hence as chaotic, or evil (1). Similarly, an eclectic (3) can only interpret Love (4) as being non-eclectic, or somehow fundamentalist/chaotic, now synonymous with evil (2). That assumes that people have a hierarchtical view of the stages. And a superiority complex. I look at much of my fundamentalist period as sweet and progressive. I was thinking earlier of perhaps my most fundamentalist period -- as one of the teams of four governors sent out to teach the first intro citizen sidha courses in the spring/summer of 1977. During one lecture Q and A on on of the 4-6week courses, I fell off my chair laughing at a wonderful exchange. Everyone was laughing long and deep. It was a light, magic time. 2 of the 7 governors / guys flying and/or around have become rajas. I wish them the best. Lots of support of nature in that era. And I rememeber I would go back to my dorm room (at a premier university where we were holding the course) and sit on the cold linoleum floor in a lotus, reading the gita -- (the hari krishna one to boot) and loving it, so absorbed in the knowledge. And great programs. I don't look back on that period as inferior. It was just different than my current stage. I remember exactly when I first recognized unconditional Love as an actual presence or state, irrespective of person, and while I was instantly attracted to it, knew I had to Be it, it also scared the bejeezus out of me, as I realized that its very presence destroyed all my carefully-built-up scholarship and discrimination and mastery of eclecticism, everything I had identified with, revealing its core- nature of semi-conscious competition, power, etc. (this was in Harvard Divinity School). Not surprisingly, this glimpse also triggered the onset of a two-year Dark Night of the Soul :-) My above experience was at Stanford so that explains the smoothness and grandeur of the experience compared to yours. :) What I experienced is probably much different, smaller, in terms of stages than you. However, I don't see or experience and of the discorrdance that you have. Each (perhaps micro-stage) I have experienced has flowed into the next. Without horror or destruction of past stages. Each stage has its charm and value. The first stage, I touched on that in a post last weekend, was wonderfully charged with the enthusiasm and energy of a teen seeker. To have that again! *L*L*L* d*d*d darkness, dumbness and daffiness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, spacetime and growth *are* a big joke, and while we are laughing at them, they are laughing right back at us, watching our every move, evaluating, seeing if we are slave or master, with neck, hand and leg-irons at the ready! Ha-Ha! You are bringing out the mirth and giggles in me again...could we call the Peck stages, 1- sleepwalking, 2-awakened point value, 3-awakened multi-point value, 4-awakened infinite point value, which then transcends its point value altogether? A beautiful model. It certainly explains the dynamics here on FFL sometimes where the eclectics (you know who you are! hehe) will mistake a state of unconditional love for that of fundamentalism and/or chaos. And I can totally relate to that moment of recognition when unconditional Love was recognized clearly and unmistakably by me as the goal and being simultaneously completely terrified! HA-HA! Seems gently silly now, but at the time and whenever I would think of it afterwards, I'd have a visceral reaction like I knew I could no longer hide in my skin. Unnerving to say the least. Like the joke about the General watching the opposing army advance on him, and he turns to his aide, and barks, Bring me my brown pants!. In any case, yes, all that is left after that is the steady and exciting journey towards death and dissolution (!), all resistance is futile. Once bitten by the Supreme Love Bug we all succumb eventually. :-) *lol* Yes; I like all this! I think too for me the deepest lesson from M. Scott Peck is, if the model helps me understand another, see myself in the other and the other in myself, then it's useful. If I am tempted to use it to pigeonhole another, to exalt myself over another or place myself ahead of another, then I can remember the deeper implication -- that I cannot ever really judge where another lies on this scale. After all, all we can see is where we are -- and where we've been. And if another looks to be *behind* us, how can we know that they're not really *ahead* of us, on another turn of the spiral entirely? In truth, on several levels, all I ever really know is myself! And appreciate the Other :-) *L*L*L*
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That assumes that people have a hierarchtical view of the stages. And a superiority complex. snip Or a belief in space-time and growth, which is perhaps saying the same thing! But anyway, you have anticipated the point I just brought up with Jim, which is that we cannot truly know another -- ever. When we are tempted to see another as being where we have been, it may be they are on another turn of the spiral, or perhaps in another topographical universe entirely :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yes, spacetime and growth *are* a big joke, and while we are laughing at them, they are laughing right back at us, watching our every move, evaluating, seeing if we are slave or master, with neck, hand and leg-irons at the ready! Ha-Ha! You are bringing out the mirth and giggles in me again...could we call the Peck stages, 1- sleepwalking, 2-awakened point value, 3-awakened multi-point value, 4-awakened infinite point value, which then transcends its point value altogether? A beautiful model. It certainly explains the dynamics here on FFL sometimes where the eclectics (you know who you are! hehe) will mistake a state of unconditional love for that of fundamentalism and/or chaos. And I can totally relate to that moment of recognition when unconditional Love was recognized clearly and unmistakably by me as the goal and being simultaneously completely terrified! HA-HA! Seems gently silly now, but at the time and whenever I would think of it afterwards, I'd have a visceral reaction like I knew I could no longer hide in my skin. Unnerving to say the least. Like the joke about the General watching the opposing army advance on him, and he turns to his aide, and barks, Bring me my brown pants!. In any case, yes, all that is left after that is the steady and exciting journey towards death and dissolution (!), all resistance is futile. Once bitten by the Supreme Love Bug we all succumb eventually. :-) *lol* Yes; I like all this! I think too for me the deepest lesson from M. Scott Peck is, if the model helps me understand another, see myself in the other and the other in myself, then it's useful. If I am tempted to use it to pigeonhole another, to exalt myself over another or place myself ahead of another, then I can remember the deeper implication -- that I cannot ever really judge where another lies on this scale. After all, all we can see is where we are -- and where we've been. And if another looks to be *behind* us, how can we know that they're not really *ahead* of us, on another turn of the spiral entirely? In truth, on several levels, all I ever really know is myself! And appreciate the Other :-) *L*L*L* Yes, it is a good point, and a constant reminder, lest I begin to take my movie subtitles as gospel. :-) And the issue at hand isn't whether someone is behind us or ahead of us. It is what we do with the information. Peck's model just seems to fit so elegantly, and the dynamics of [albeit illusory] spiritual growth can be seen as fitting perfectly into such a model. So, on the one hand Peck's model may explain a situation to the point where we can realize an A-HA experience from the clarity that the model imposes on such dynamics. Yet to take it a step further and condemn another for where they might be seen realistically in Peck's model irreperably destroys the model, because its pinnacle is the inclusive nature of unconditional love, not the exclusivity of the prior states. So recognizing things for what they are, and always being cognizant of our surrender to His and Her Creation is the important lesson. That's what I got when you said the other person may be several turns ahead of us. I don't believe that they are with regard to Peck's model if they in fact are not. On the other hand if I use such a situation for condemnation, I am no longer adhering to the ultimate truth of Peck's model. Its a difficult and precise pathway to take, to at once see things for what they are, the point value, and the valid interrelatedness of the points, and at the same time recognizing that the relationships as they appear are sacred because they are within Brahman. A similar analogy could be used for the much abused Caste system of India, the purpose of which is to allow for quickest growth within one's dharma. How is this then abused? By becoming a system of one group lording their status over another. Instead of recognizing different levels as being a natural part of life, there is our temptation to instead use them as a means of subjugating and negatively categorizing another. The way out lies not in deciding to ignore such natural distinctions as are made in Peck's model or the caste system, and pretend that such a model is stood on its head, or doesn't really exist, but rather to work to accept such a model, and not abuse the Divine information we gain from understanding and seeing clearly such distinctions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, it is a good point, and a constant reminder, lest I begin to take my movie subtitles as gospel. :-) *lol* Good one! And the issue at hand isn't whether someone is behind us or ahead of us. It is what we do with the information. Peck's model just seems to fit so elegantly, and the dynamics of [albeit illusory] spiritual growth can be seen as fitting perfectly into such a model. So, on the one hand Peck's model may explain a situation to the point where we can realize an A-HA experience from the clarity that the model imposes on such dynamics. Yet to take it a step further and condemn another for where they might be seen realistically in Peck's model irreperably destroys the model, because its pinnacle is the inclusive nature of unconditional love, not the exclusivity of the prior states. Bingo! And condemning another is only (re)consigning portions of ourself to exile, to Hell, for the time being. (Not that there's anything Wrong with that. :-) ) There may be other pinnacles beyond stage 4, including what may look like pre-stage-4 exclusivity to us. All we can really know is where we are, and where we've been -- not where another truly is, except as a perfect mirror and opportunity to love yet more aspects or particles of ourself, of the past we've left behind and which seeks to reintegrate with us, to grow into us, into our Love-Being. So recognizing things for what they are, and always being cognizant of our surrender to His and Her Creation is the important lesson. That's what I got when you said the other person may be several turns ahead of us. I don't believe that they are with regard to Peck's model if they in fact are not. Perhaps. I find I don't fully trust *any* perception of the other unless it is crystalline-perfect, simply and utterly divine, nothing other than myself, and the heart then says Yes! This is the Truth! I can rest here. But either way, if they are showing us (or we are showing ourself) something other than this, we/they are offering us an opportunity to heal, to grow, to expand, and so they represent our future as well as our past :-) On the other hand if I use such a situation for condemnation, I am no longer adhering to the ultimate truth of Peck's model. Yes! Its a difficult and precise pathway to take, to at once see things for what they are, the point value, and the valid interrelatedness of the points, and at the same time recognizing that the relationships as they appear are sacred because they are within Brahman. Sweet! A similar analogy could be used for the much abused Caste system of India, the purpose of which is to allow for quickest growth within one's dharma. How is this then abused? By becoming a system of one group lording their status over another. Instead of recognizing different levels as being a natural part of life, there is our temptation to instead use them as a means of subjugating and negatively categorizing another. Yes. Is Violet really superior to Red? The way out lies not in deciding to ignore such natural distinctions as are made in Peck's model or the caste system, and pretend that such a model is stood on its head, or doesn't really exist, but rather to work to accept such a model, and not abuse the Divine information we gain from understanding and seeing clearly such distinctions. And remembering it's only one way to understand the self, and our various particles, and beyond this is the real treasure, the unknowable but fully-appreciatable :-) *L*L*L*
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: That assumes that people have a hierarchtical view of the stages. And a superiority complex. snip Or a belief in space-time and growth, which is perhaps saying the same thing! But anyway, you have anticipated the point I just brought up with Jim, which is that we cannot truly know another -- ever. When we are tempted to see another as being where we have been, it may be they are on another turn of the spiral, or perhaps in another topographical universe entirely :-) Yes, which perhaps is another way of saying, don't waste time and energy judging others. Because one lacks the appropriate reference points to others' lives -- as you point out. But as much or more, its an unnecessary chatter of the mind, this is good, he is bad, she is ok, that is good ... One only needs to judge others if and when one must make a decision regarding that person. Whic is 1 out of 100 or 1/1000 common monkey-mind judgements. The others are idle chatter. (all apologies to monkeys). That we often can only see others from our own frame of reference, our cultural/religious/intellectual, emotional frameworks, perhaps is a famine of imagination. I was thinking this morning that this quality of empathy and really seeing from anothers' view needs to be cultured in childhood when the mind is nimbe and formative. I saw a squirrel dart in from of my car and he was terrified, running valiantly across the road as I swerved to miss it (which I did.) The reality of the situation was my view: little tiny squirrel, regular sized car. But from the squirrel's perspective, the car was easily 15-20 times its height. So It would be like a 120 foot tank roaring 3 times faster than I could run, zipping in front of me as I was crossing the road. My mind is not automatically trained to think from that view. It occurred to me kids could more easily, naturally, imagine such and culture that quality for later in life.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: That occured to me when writing it up. The exact *same* story can be pointed to by God freaks Where did that term come from? Is that the opposite of atheist freaks? Yes, and it's totally innocuous. It's a lingering Sixties-ism in my speech. So far on FFL I have used the term dozens of times, in contexts such as enlightenment freak and Bruce Cockburn freak or music freak (both referring to myself), or neat freak, or Mongo freak (referring to fans of a certain short fictional detective). It's a slang way of referring to the odd things that some people get off on. It has no negative connotations, except, seemingly, in your mind. And what's a God freak anyway? I think the term freak is possibly reserved for those pushing an agenda, as it appears you are doing now, my dear Buddhist atheist. Jim, since you stopped actively slamming me, I've taken a chance and replied to a few of your posts as if you were an adult, and as if you were actually a rational human being. My mistake. Back in the trashbin you go. Someday (in my opinion) you should try a little introspection and try to view yourself as others see you, not as you like to see yourself. First you react to me suggesting that Guru Dev would be shocked to hear himself referred to as His Divinity by his followers as if what I said was some kind of an insult. It was intended to be a *compliment*, dude. The term used to honor him by some...uh...Guru Dev freaks IMO *belittles* him, *belittles* a teacher of enlightenment, and *belittles* the whole process of enlightenment in my opinion, and that was what I intended to convey. But you perceived it as some kind of insult, and reacted as if you *personally* had been insulted. That's YOUR problem, dude, not mine. And now you take offense at a simple Sixties-ism, get all huffy and offended, and start hurling terms like atheist and Buddhist as if *they* were insults. Can't you *feel* the emotional loading that *you* place on such terms? I sure can, and I'd be willing to bet a few others on this forum have developed their intuition to the point that they can feel it, too. So back in the trashbin with you, dude. It's not worth trying to communicate with you if you're going to be so cluelessly reactive here. For the record, I don't care what other people believe, about God or about Guru Dev. I'm just trippin' on language, and occasionally pointing out when people make statements or ask questions based on *assumptions*. Their entire followup statement or question is based on *accepting* the assumption as true; otherwise the followup statement or question has no meaning. To react to the statement or to answer the question, one has to *accept* the assumption as true. Some of us don't accept those assumptions, is all. My agenda is merely to point out these assumptions when they occur, which is clearly in the spirit defined for this group on its main page. The vast majority of people on this planet believe in God, so much so that it has become a never-challenged assumption on their part. Some of *them* react strongly when someone points out the fact that it *is* an assumption, and a completely unproven assumption at that. It seems to me that this is what's going on here with your response. Despite your claim, you *are* trying to start something. Instead, by acting like a petulant child, you have ended something instead, my experiment in seeing if you could have a rational conver- sation without...uh...freaking out when you encounter ideas that differ from yours. I wish you the best of luck with your life and your beliefs. May they both make you very happy. But dude...I'm just TIRED of all the prepubes- cent arguing here, and want to spend what little time I spend here talking with adults who can treat ideas that differ from their own ideas as Just Ideas, not some kind of attack. You don't seem to be one of those people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: That occured to me when writing it up. The exact *same* story can be pointed to by God freaks Where did that term come from? Is that the opposite of atheist freaks? Yes, and it's totally innocuous. It's a lingering Sixties-ism in my speech. So far on FFL I have used the term dozens of times, in contexts such as enlightenment freak and Bruce Cockburn freak or music freak (both referring to myself), or neat freak, or Mongo freak (referring to fans of a certain short fictional detective). It's a slang way of referring to the odd things that some people get off on. It has no negative connotations, except, seemingly, in your mind. And what's a God freak anyway? I think the term freak is possibly reserved for those pushing an agenda, as it appears you are doing now, my dear Buddhist atheist. Jim, since you stopped actively slamming me, I've taken a chance and replied to a few of your posts as if you were an adult, and as if you were actually a rational human being. My mistake. Back in the trashbin you go. I meant no disrespect to you when I used the terms Buddhist and atheist. Isn't a person who doesn't beileve in God an atheist and aren't you a Buddhist? What you perceived as my anger or rigidity was merely intensity. I read back what I had written and I *got* the intensity, but no anger. And the intensity was merely a reflection of my daily circumstance, not directed at you or FFL. On the other hand, I am trying to be more careful with my writing. Sometimes when I am writing, I will look back at what I have written and realize it didn't convey what I had intended. Case in point was my response to Rory's comment about our taking our subtitles of the life movie as gospel. As many things he writes do, it tickled me and I responded that it was a great joke. Later I realized that could've been miscontrued as me not taking what he said seriously. Writing is a skill that is a challenge for me because it must be self- contained and linear. Give me a good canvas any day, literally. Now, as to your response that 'freak' is reserved for the odd things that people get off on, would you or have you referred to yourself as a 'Tantric freak' or an 'atheist freak' or a 'Buddhism freak'? The reason I ask is that perhaps the term is not as innocuous as you think it is. Maybe, and maybe not. I personally don't know, and that is why I am asking you. And I am also curious why you see atheist as a negative term? I consider those who choose to not recognize God as atheists. What is the issue there?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
Argument freaks.. --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: That occured to me when writing it up. The exact *same* story can be pointed to by God freaks Where did that term come from? Is that the opposite of atheist freaks? Yes, and it's totally innocuous. It's a lingering Sixties-ism in my speech. So far on FFL I have used the term dozens of times, in contexts such as enlightenment freak and Bruce Cockburn freak or music freak (both referring to myself), or neat freak, or Mongo freak (referring to fans of a certain short fictional detective). It's a slang way of referring to the odd things that some people get off on. It has no negative connotations, except, seemingly, in your mind. And what's a God freak anyway? I think the term freak is possibly reserved for those pushing an agenda, as it appears you are doing now, my dear Buddhist atheist. Jim, since you stopped actively slamming me, I've taken a chance and replied to a few of your posts as if you were an adult, and as if you were actually a rational human being. My mistake. Back in the trashbin you go. I meant no disrespect to you when I used the terms Buddhist and atheist. Isn't a person who doesn't beileve in God an atheist and aren't you a Buddhist? What you perceived as my anger or rigidity was merely intensity. I read back what I had written and I *got* the intensity, but no anger. And the intensity was merely a reflection of my daily circumstance, not directed at you or FFL. On the other hand, I am trying to be more careful with my writing. Sometimes when I am writing, I will look back at what I have written and realize it didn't convey what I had intended. Case in point was my response to Rory's comment about our taking our subtitles of the life movie as gospel. As many things he writes do, it tickled me and I responded that it was a great joke. Later I realized that could've been miscontrued as me not taking what he said seriously. Writing is a skill that is a challenge for me because it must be self- contained and linear. Give me a good canvas any day, literally. Now, as to your response that 'freak' is reserved for the odd things that people get off on, would you or have you referred to yourself as a 'Tantric freak' or an 'atheist freak' or a 'Buddhism freak'? The reason I ask is that perhaps the term is not as innocuous as you think it is. Maybe, and maybe not. I personally don't know, and that is why I am asking you. And I am also curious why you see atheist as a negative term? I consider those who choose to not recognize God as atheists. What is the issue there? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
Turq: Back in the trashbin you go. Jim: I meant no disrespect to you when I used the terms Buddhist and atheist. snip And the intensity was merely a reflection of my daily circumstance, not directed at you or FFL. Jim. Thanks for taking an interchange like this and standing it down, instead of stepping it up. Hooray! lurk
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turq: Back in the trashbin you go. Jim: I meant no disrespect to you when I used the terms Buddhist and atheist. snip And the intensity was merely a reflection of my daily circumstance, not directed at you or FFL. Jim. Thanks for taking an interchange like this and standing it down, instead of stepping it up. Hooray! lurk Lurk, what the f**k is your problem, you a**hole! ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip On the other hand, I am trying to be more careful with my writing. Sometimes when I am writing, I will look back at what I have written and realize it didn't convey what I had intended. Case in point was my response to Rory's comment about our taking our subtitles of the life movie as gospel. As many things he writes do, it tickled me and I responded that it was a great joke. Later I realized that could've been miscontrued as me not taking what he said seriously. snip No worries, mate! It was meant both seriously and humorously (or neither, or whatever), likle most of the material I generate, and I figure you got that (and That)! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip On the other hand, I am trying to be more careful with my writing. Sometimes when I am writing, I will look back at what I have written and realize it didn't convey what I had intended. Case in point was my response to Rory's comment about our taking our subtitles of the life movie as gospel. As many things he writes do, it tickled me and I responded that it was a great joke. Later I realized that could've been miscontrued as me not taking what he said seriously. snip No worries, mate! It was meant both seriously and humorously (or neither, or whatever), likle most of the material I generate, and I figure you got that (and That)! :-) Yeah, I did- just like to check in sometimes. Like I said, language can be cumbersome or fraught with assumptions if all the angles aren't explicitly covered, and then who the heck wants to read it?! Anyway I appreciate a lot of your stuff as having real substance, and by that I mean I can turn it over and over in my mind and body for a long time, sometimes for years. And I appreciate that, and That!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I did- just like to check in sometimes. Like I said, language can be cumbersome or fraught with assumptions if all the angles aren't explicitly covered, and then who the heck wants to read it?! Anyway I appreciate a lot of your stuff as having real substance, and by that I mean I can turn it over and over in my mind and body for a long time, sometimes for years. And I appreciate that, and That! It is very sweet to be appreciated, and naturally makes me wish to give you yet more, to pour yet more ghee-hee-hee as an offering to the flame of your already blazing Heart. Swaha! Take THAT! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- Rory, be careful about using the word sweet. Various TMO TB have been known to use that expression, in emulation of MMY. I remember when Jerry Jarvis used to burp like MMY. A real insider might burp and say sweet at the same time!; as well as moving the hand up and down in a characteristic MMY mudra. At Humboldt 70 I always sat way in the back, in the bleechers, while the various TB like Keith Wallace would sit in the front row. Charlie Lutes used to dance by a different drummer and said The Mahareeshee, instead of Maharshi as in Ramana Maharshi.. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yeah, I did- just like to check in sometimes. Like I said, language can be cumbersome or fraught with assumptions if all the angles aren't explicitly covered, and then who the heck wants to read it?! Anyway I appreciate a lot of your stuff as having real substance, and by that I mean I can turn it over and over in my mind and body for a long time, sometimes for years. And I appreciate that, and That! It is very sweet to be appreciated, and naturally makes me wish to give you yet more, to pour yet more ghee-hee-hee as an offering to the flame of your already blazing Heart. Swaha! Take THAT! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rory, be careful about using the word sweet. Various TMO TB have been known to use that expression, in emulation of MMY. I remember when Jerry Jarvis used to burp like MMY. A real insider might burp and say sweet at the same time!; as well as moving the hand up and down in a characteristic MMY mudra. At Humboldt 70 I always sat way in the back, in the bleechers, while the various TB like Keith Wallace would sit in the front row. Charlie Lutes used to dance by a different drummer and said The Mahareeshee, instead of Maharshi as in Ramana Maharshi.. *lol* Yes, too bad you can't hear my intonation. It's about as unlike a TB as one can get ... like that, like that :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yeah, I did- just like to check in sometimes. Like I said, language can be cumbersome or fraught with assumptions if all the angles aren't explicitly covered, and then who the heck wants to read it?! Anyway I appreciate a lot of your stuff as having real substance, and by that I mean I can turn it over and over in my mind and body for a long time, sometimes for years. And I appreciate that, and That! It is very sweet to be appreciated, and naturally makes me wish to give you yet more, to pour yet more ghee-hee-hee as an offering to the flame of your already blazing Heart. Swaha! Take THAT! :-) Thanks!! Blazing away! When I came across your perspective of Brahman; all the Universe is within us, I found it to be the perfect compliment to a phrase of Maharishi's I had worked with for years, The world is as you are, live unbounded awareness. Anyway, we can't get enough of Brahman, right??
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt qntmpkt@ wrote: --- Rory, be careful about using the word sweet. Various TMO TB have been known to use that expression, in emulation of MMY. I remember when Jerry Jarvis used to burp like MMY. A real insider might burp and say sweet at the same time!; as well as moving the hand up and down in a characteristic MMY mudra. At Humboldt 70 I always sat way in the back, in the bleechers, while the various TB like Keith Wallace would sit in the front row. Charlie Lutes used to dance by a different drummer and said The Mahareeshee, instead of Maharshi as in Ramana Maharshi.. *lol* Yes, too bad you can't hear my intonation. It's about as unlike a TB as one can get ... like that, like that :-) Lemme guess Roryhm, I bet it sounds *real*! Damn! What a concept!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turq: Back in the trashbin you go. Jim: I meant no disrespect to you when I used the terms Buddhist and atheist. snip And the intensity was merely a reflection of my daily circumstance, not directed at you or FFL. Jim. Thanks for taking an interchange like this and standing it down, instead of stepping it up. Hooray! lurk Yeah, I'm done with the latter- it was an experiment I tried and found I didn't like it very much. You are welcome. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt qntmpkt@ wrote: --- Rory, be careful about using the word sweet. Various TMO TB have been known to use that expression, in emulation of MMY. I remember when Jerry Jarvis used to burp like MMY. A real insider might burp and say sweet at the same time!; as well as moving the hand up and down in a characteristic MMY mudra. At Humboldt 70 I always sat way in the back, in the bleechers, while the various TB like Keith Wallace would sit in the front row. Charlie Lutes used to dance by a different drummer and said The Mahareeshee, instead of Maharshi as in Ramana Maharshi.. *lol* Yes, too bad you can't hear my intonation. It's about as unlike a TB as one can get ... like that, like that :-) Lemme guess Roryhm, I bet it sounds *real*! Damn! What a concept! Yes, sorry, I was hoping the like that, like that would ironically belie my apparent distancing from the TBs, as truly I have nothing against them and am actually profoundly impressed with their devotion, purity and sattva. They are actually *very* real to me. It used to bother me that they seemed so self-absorbed that they could not see me, but I have found that the more I rest in my own Being and appreciate their innate and exquisite perfection, the more they rest in theirs and see mine, and there is only deeper and deeper love between us. They are my devotees, as I am theirs. Again, no worries, mate! :-) *L*L*L*
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
Turq, I'm so jealous of your Crumby Karma. Would you tell him, for the one millionth time, from yet another of the masses he reached, that his drawings and humor came into my life at exactly the time I needed it. Yes, everything does, but his arrival in my life seemed especially so. The junk in the trunk women he drew with their stocky bodies, greasy hair, and hippy vibes were like fine French Pastries for my hungry eyes. I sipped his irreverence like the nectar it was. Truly this guy impacted just about everyone who was in their twenties in the sixties or seventies. I saw that documentary about him and his brother, and, er, his mom too? I was so moved that his talent could not just survive that intense karma but actually thrive because of it. Despite his world-class hinky ways, he's like an attention magnet nonetheless, but in a good way, like seeing Stephen Hawking in his twistedness yet knowing that underneath the physical inabilities is this huge intellect -- same deal for me with Crumb -- all I can see is geekazoidy almost goth-icky personality on the surface, but under it all is something precious, massive. If Adoph Hitler had by chance also been a great mathematician, he might have come up with a truth that was so fundamental that it had to be taught in every high school around the world. Think of the cognitive dissonance of teachers everywhere explaining this fact. How could you teach this truth to a Jew -- what sensitivity could any teacher draw from to handle such a lesson? Just so, Crumb to me -- his coal enwraps the hard inner diamond that the volcanic pressures of his life have wrought. And I'm here wearing my nice new white gloves. Bother! Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the Twilight Zone, Sauve division, here's a cool synchronicity/support of nature story I heard today. My neighbor R.Crumb is working on a pretty serious project, Genesis. Yup, the first book of the Bible, illustrated in comic form by Robert Crumb. I know you're thinkin', Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have Mr. Natural saying, 'Let there be light, Dudes...' but it's not like that. He's really doing what's written there in the Bible, word for word, and merely illustrating it himself. Merely. Anyway, summer's coming and with it, lots of visitors to Chateau Crumb. So Robert, really wanting to finish this project but easily dis- tracted, decided to find an apartment away from Sauve in which to work on this project non-stop. And so he and Aline are looking for such an apart- ment and they find one owned by someone with the last name of Crumb. No relation. Except that Mme. Crumb is English, and did her doctoral dissertation at Oxford on Genesis. She's fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and all the other Biblical languages, and left all of her source books on Genesis there in the apart- ment that she's renting out. Her response to hearing the project that Robert wanted to write in her apart- ment? Say no more. It's a done deal. The apartment is yours. She's also willing to serve as a consul- tant should Robert have any questions. Is that cool karma or what? And on all sides -- both sets of Crumbs get something cool from the deal. It's like a textbook example of interdependent origination.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the Twilight Zone, Sauve division, here's a cool synchronicity/support of nature story I heard today. My neighbor R.Crumb is working on a pretty serious project, Genesis. Yup, the first book of the Bible, illustrated in comic form by Robert Crumb. I know you're thinkin', Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have Mr. Natural saying, 'Let there be light, Dudes...' but it's not like that. He's really doing what's written there in the Bible, word for word, and merely illustrating it himself. Merely. Anyway, summer's coming and with it, lots of visitors to Chateau Crumb. So Robert, really wanting to finish this project but easily dis- tracted, decided to find an apartment away from Sauve in which to work on this project non-stop. And so he and Aline are looking for such an apart- ment and they find one owned by someone with the last name of Crumb. No relation. Except that Mme. Crumb is English, and did her doctoral dissertation at Oxford on Genesis. She's fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and all the other Biblical languages, and left all of her source books on Genesis there in the apart- ment that she's renting out. Her response to hearing the project that Robert wanted to write in her apart- ment? Say no more. It's a done deal. The apartment is yours. She's also willing to serve as a consul- tant should Robert have any questions. Is that cool karma or what? And on all sides -- both sets of Crumbs get something cool from the deal. It's like a textbook example of interdependent origination. Cool story-- God works in mysterious ways, eh? ...just busting on ya...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
Talk about doo dee doo doo. I pulled up to a red light -- circa 1965. In the lane next to me is a Nash Rambler -- a genuinely goofyassed car and very rarely seen even in those days of its production run. So, it gets my attention, and I notice that the billboard next to the road is advertising this very car down to the color, and then on the radio comes an ad for this car. The car, the ad, the radio ad -- all very very rare. Then there's the time I dropped a nickle, and it bounced ON ITS EDGE and never lost its balance. It just kept bouncing like a ball until the energy ran out -- it stopped bouncing on its edge and never fell over -- then it rolled across the kitchen floor and came to a rest, still standing. Then there was the time I had a peace symbol on a leather thong. The thong was threaded through the peace sign which was a one piece cast metal object -- no seams. The thong was knotted tight, and I was just jerking the peace sign and feeling the thong bite into the back of my neck. Suddenly, the peace sign came off the thong. Shit, I said, thinking I'd broken either the thong or peace sign. Neither was broken. Everything intact. A miracle if ever there was anything to be called a miracle. And once I drove for one hour and arrived at my destination two hours later, and to this day, I do not know what happened to that hour -- my memories of the drive were detailed and full. No, it wasn't daylight savings change the clocks day. Then there's the time in a Korean hotel that I had a meeting with a German manufacturer. I called him from the lobby. He said that he'd be right down. I stood by the elevator. It opened. The guy smiles. I smile. I shake his hand, he shakes mine. His German accent is heavy. We go to the bar to have drinks and try to map out a possible deal. I tell him my approaches, he tells me his. Then, at some point we both realize that he had come to the lobby to meet a DIFFERENT American and I had the wrong German. Yet, we had had a very fruitful dialog up to that point!! We both go to the lobby, and there's our counterparts wandering around, but they hadn't hooked up -- I think God missed an even bigger laugh there. I'll write about my hallucinations next. Stay tuned. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the Twilight Zone, Sauve division, here's a cool synchronicity/support of nature story I heard today. My neighbor R.Crumb is working on a pretty serious project, Genesis. Yup, the first book of the Bible, illustrated in comic form by Robert Crumb. I know you're thinkin', Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have Mr. Natural saying, 'Let there be light, Dudes...' but it's not like that. He's really doing what's written there in the Bible, word for word, and merely illustrating it himself. Merely. Anyway, summer's coming and with it, lots of visitors to Chateau Crumb. So Robert, really wanting to finish this project but easily dis- tracted, decided to find an apartment away from Sauve in which to work on this project non-stop. And so he and Aline are looking for such an apart- ment and they find one owned by someone with the last name of Crumb. No relation. Except that Mme. Crumb is English, and did her doctoral dissertation at Oxford on Genesis. She's fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and all the other Biblical languages, and left all of her source books on Genesis there in the apart- ment that she's renting out. Her response to hearing the project that Robert wanted to write in her apart- ment? Say no more. It's a done deal. The apartment is yours. She's also willing to serve as a consul- tant should Robert have any questions. Is that cool karma or what? And on all sides -- both sets of Crumbs get something cool from the deal. It's like a textbook example of interdependent origination.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: From the Twilight Zone, Sauve division, here's a cool synchronicity/support of nature story I heard today. My neighbor R.Crumb is working on a pretty serious project, Genesis. Yup, the first book of the Bible, illustrated in comic form by Robert Crumb. I know you're thinkin', Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have Mr. Natural saying, 'Let there be light, Dudes...' but it's not like that. He's really doing what's written there in the Bible, word for word, and merely illustrating it himself. Merely. Anyway, summer's coming and with it, lots of visitors to Chateau Crumb. So Robert, really wanting to finish this project but easily dis- tracted, decided to find an apartment away from Sauve in which to work on this project non-stop. And so he and Aline are looking for such an apart- ment and they find one owned by someone with the last name of Crumb. No relation. Except that Mme. Crumb is English, and did her doctoral dissertation at Oxford on Genesis. She's fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and all the other Biblical languages, and left all of her source books on Genesis there in the apart- ment that she's renting out. Her response to hearing the project that Robert wanted to write in her apart- ment? Say no more. It's a done deal. The apartment is yours. She's also willing to serve as a consul- tant should Robert have any questions. Is that cool karma or what? And on all sides -- both sets of Crumbs get something cool from the deal. It's like a textbook example of interdependent origination. Cool story-- God works in mysterious ways, eh? ...just busting on ya... That occured to me when writing it up. The exact *same* story can be pointed to by God freaks as an example of His good works and grace, and can be pointed to (as I did) as a textbook example of Buddhist interdependent origination, which has no need for a God. As Bruce Cockburn once said in a song: Little round planet In a big universe Sometimes it looks blessed Sometimes it looks cursed Depends on what you look at obviously But even more it depends on the way that you see You say potáto, I say potàto. Same tuber. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
You're on a roll today, Edg, and making me use up a lot of my 35. :-) I love these kinds of synchronicities. My life is full of them. A couple of the more colorful were written up in one of the stories I wrote for Road Trip Mind, at: http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm26.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Talk about doo dee doo doo. I pulled up to a red light -- circa 1965. In the lane next to me is a Nash Rambler -- a genuinely goofyassed car and very rarely seen even in those days of its production run. So, it gets my attention, and I notice that the billboard next to the road is advertising this very car down to the color, and then on the radio comes an ad for this car. The car, the ad, the radio ad -- all very very rare. Then there's the time I dropped a nickle, and it bounced ON ITS EDGE and never lost its balance. It just kept bouncing like a ball until the energy ran out -- it stopped bouncing on its edge and never fell over -- then it rolled across the kitchen floor and came to a rest, still standing. Then there was the time I had a peace symbol on a leather thong. The thong was threaded through the peace sign which was a one piece cast metal object -- no seams. The thong was knotted tight, and I was just jerking the peace sign and feeling the thong bite into the back of my neck. Suddenly, the peace sign came off the thong. Shit, I said, thinking I'd broken either the thong or peace sign. Neither was broken. Everything intact. A miracle if ever there was anything to be called a miracle. And once I drove for one hour and arrived at my destination two hours later, and to this day, I do not know what happened to that hour -- my memories of the drive were detailed and full. No, it wasn't daylight savings change the clocks day. Then there's the time in a Korean hotel that I had a meeting with a German manufacturer. I called him from the lobby. He said that he'd be right down. I stood by the elevator. It opened. The guy smiles. I smile. I shake his hand, he shakes mine. His German accent is heavy. We go to the bar to have drinks and try to map out a possible deal. I tell him my approaches, he tells me his. Then, at some point we both realize that he had come to the lobby to meet a DIFFERENT American and I had the wrong German. Yet, we had had a very fruitful dialog up to that point!! We both go to the lobby, and there's our counterparts wandering around, but they hadn't hooked up -- I think God missed an even bigger laugh there. I'll write about my hallucinations next. Stay tuned. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: From the Twilight Zone, Sauve division, here's a cool synchronicity/support of nature story I heard today. My neighbor R.Crumb is working on a pretty serious project, Genesis. Yup, the first book of the Bible, illustrated in comic form by Robert Crumb. I know you're thinkin', Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have Mr. Natural saying, 'Let there be light, Dudes...' but it's not like that. He's really doing what's written there in the Bible, word for word, and merely illustrating it himself. Merely. Anyway, summer's coming and with it, lots of visitors to Chateau Crumb. So Robert, really wanting to finish this project but easily dis- tracted, decided to find an apartment away from Sauve in which to work on this project non-stop. And so he and Aline are looking for such an apart- ment and they find one owned by someone with the last name of Crumb. No relation. Except that Mme. Crumb is English, and did her doctoral dissertation at Oxford on Genesis. She's fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and all the other Biblical languages, and left all of her source books on Genesis there in the apart- ment that she's renting out. Her response to hearing the project that Robert wanted to write in her apart- ment? Say no more. It's a done deal. The apartment is yours. She's also willing to serve as a consul- tant should Robert have any questions. Is that cool karma or what? And on all sides -- both sets of Crumbs get something cool from the deal. It's like a textbook example of interdependent origination.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turq, I'm so jealous of your Crumby Karma. So am I. :-) And I'm moving anyway. You of all people probably understand why. Would you tell him, for the one millionth time, from yet another of the masses he reached, that his drawings and humor came into my life at exactly the time I needed it. Yes, everything does, but his arrival in my life seemed especially so. The junk in the trunk women he drew with their stocky bodies, greasy hair, and hippy vibes were like fine French Pastries for my hungry eyes. I sipped his irreverence like the nectar it was. He'll be pleased to hear this. Robert is possibly the most fame-averse and attention-averse human being I've ever met, a true recluse, but he does appreciate it when people appreciate his work. Truly this guy impacted just about everyone who was in their twenties in the sixties or seventies. He did indeed. I remember fondly the sense of resonance I felt when I first met Mr. Natural. It was very Mother is at home. I saw that documentary about him and his brother, and, er, his mom too? I was so moved that his talent could not just survive that intense karma but actually thrive because of it. And thrive it has. He's a veritable inspiration, to have not only survived that, but to have turned the struggle *to* survive it into art. The first stop on my recent Road Trip was a museum that was staging an exhibition of Crumb Family Art. It con- tained works by Robert, by his wife Aline, by their daughter Sophie, and by his even crazier brother Maxon. Quite a show. Quite a crowd. Despite his world-class hinky ways, he's like an attention magnet nonetheless, but in a good way, like seeing Stephen Hawking in his twistedness yet knowing that underneath the physical inabilities is this huge intellect -- same deal for me with Crumb -- all I can see is geekazoidy almost goth-icky personality on the surface, but under it all is something precious, massive. Robert Crumb and his wife Aline and their daughter Sophie are among my couple of dozen favorite people I've ever met on planet Earth. They're just so sweet and *normal*, man. As you say, the hinky ways are just the surface. Underneath, neither Robert nor Aline drink, smoke, or do drugs, and haven't for decades. Robert, unlike bozo ex-hippies like me, has almost NO positive mem- ories of his drug experiences. He meditates daily (no, I still don't know what type of meditation), and goes for long hikes in Places Of Power. And yet when a chair falls over in the restaurant where we are having dinner, he jumps as if someone had hit him with a cattle prod, and it takes several minutes for his system to settle back down. Does he have some scars from that childhood? Well, duh. But has he risen above them, and used them to create art that has been compared to the drawings of the great masters? That's what it's all about, isn't it? We've all got Monkeys On Our Backs. Even the saints we've been talking about lately have Monkeys On Their Backs. But some of them managed the saint thang *anyway*. If that isn't enough inspiration to get you through the day, I don't know what is. If Adoph Hitler had by chance also been a great mathematician, he might have come up with a truth that was so fundamental that it had to be taught in every high school around the world. Think of the cognitive dissonance of teachers everywhere explaining this fact. How could you teach this truth to a Jew -- what sensitivity could any teacher draw from to handle such a lesson? In a word, compassion. That's what's attractive about the Buddhist persuasion for me, that ability to transcend judgement. Just so, Crumb to me -- his coal enwraps the hard inner diamond that the volcanic pressures of his life have wrought. Exactly. I think he'd appreciate the image. And I'm here wearing my nice new white gloves. Bother! Lots of comic characters wore white gloves. Didh't Krazy Kat wear white gloves? Sounds like you're still in tune, dude. Or would that be toon? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: From the Twilight Zone, Sauve division, here's a cool synchronicity/support of nature story I heard today. My neighbor R.Crumb is working on a pretty serious project, Genesis. Yup, the first book of the Bible, illustrated in comic form by Robert Crumb. I know you're thinkin', Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have Mr. Natural saying, 'Let there be light, Dudes...' but it's not like that. He's really doing what's written there in the Bible, word for word, and merely illustrating it himself. Merely. Anyway, summer's coming and with it, lots of visitors to Chateau Crumb. So Robert, really wanting to finish this project but easily dis- tracted, decided to find an apartment away from Sauve in which to work on this project non-stop. And so he and Aline are looking for such
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Talk about doo dee doo doo. I pulled up to a red light -- circa 1965. In the lane next to me is a Nash Rambler -- a genuinely goofyassed car and very rarely seen even in those days of its production run. So, it gets my attention, and I notice that the billboard next to the road is advertising this very car down to the color, and then on the radio comes an ad for this car. The car, the ad, the radio ad -- all very very rare. Then there's the time I dropped a nickle, and it bounced ON ITS EDGE and never lost its balance. It just kept bouncing like a ball until the energy ran out -- it stopped bouncing on its edge and never fell over -- then it rolled across the kitchen floor and came to a rest, still standing. Then there was the time I had a peace symbol on a leather thong. The thong was threaded through the peace sign which was a one piece cast metal object -- no seams. The thong was knotted tight, and I was just jerking the peace sign and feeling the thong bite into the back of my neck. Suddenly, the peace sign came off the thong. Shit, I said, thinking I'd broken either the thong or peace sign. Neither was broken. Everything intact. A miracle if ever there was anything to be called a miracle. And once I drove for one hour and arrived at my destination two hours later, and to this day, I do not know what happened to that hour -- my memories of the drive were detailed and full. No, it wasn't daylight savings change the clocks day. Then there's the time in a Korean hotel that I had a meeting with a German manufacturer. I called him from the lobby. He said that he'd be right down. I stood by the elevator. It opened. The guy smiles. I smile. I shake his hand, he shakes mine. His German accent is heavy. We go to the bar to have drinks and try to map out a possible deal. I tell him my approaches, he tells me his. Then, at some point we both realize that he had come to the lobby to meet a DIFFERENT American and I had the wrong German. Yet, we had had a very fruitful dialog up to that point!! We both go to the lobby, and there's our counterparts wandering around, but they hadn't hooked up -- I think God missed an even bigger laugh there. I'll write about my hallucinations next. Stay tuned. Edg 'Ask, and it shall be given'- Jesus 'The means gather around purity of intention' - Maharishi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool doo dee doo doo story
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That occured to me when writing it up. The exact *same* story can be pointed to by God freaks Where did that term come from? Is that the opposite of atheist freaks? And what's a God freak anyway? I think the term freak is possibly reserved for those pushing an agenda, as it appears you are doing now, my dear Buddhist atheist. I have no agenda to push with regard to God. Let's remember it was you who took exception to my use of that term and others, so if you have a strong agenda, wouldn't you be the freak? Not trying to start something. just think your use of the language points in a different direction than you intended...:-)
