[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? I quote an earlier earlier post of yours dr.Pete: The mind wants to have a story as a defense against experiences that contradict its primary story. Why have any story at all? MMY is a con artist; MMY is a great saint. He's both, he's neither, he's nothing. Why have any story/position at all. Does it matter? Attached, non-attached...just more stories. Dr. Pete why do you want to create this story. Enlightened or not enlightened, doesn't matter, just stories. In addition to that enlightenment is a very confusing concept, because it is understood in so many ways. I myself also understand it in many ways. In one end I see every living sentient being to be enlightened and at the other extreme no one qualifies. Why do you need to defend MMY hiding so strongly behind the story of enlightenment (100% true). Or maybe there is no I, who has an agenda to defend here. Words just lightly pop up from nowhere, there is no weight, no emotional stirring prompting YOU to write? Whom are YOU trying to delude here and why? Irmeli Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? I quote an earlier earlier post of yours dr.Pete: The mind wants to have a story as a defense against experiences that contradict its primary story. Why have any story at all? MMY is a con artist; MMY is a great saint. He's both, he's neither, he's nothing. Why have any story/position at all. Does it matter? Attached, non-attached...just more stories. Dr. Pete why do you want to create this story. Enlightened or not enlightened, doesn't matter, just stories. In addition to that enlightenment is a very confusing concept, because it is understood in so many ways. I myself also understand it in many ways. In one end I see every living sentient being to be enlightened and at the other extreme no one qualifies. Why do you need to defend MMY hiding so strongly behind the story of enlightenment (100% true). Or maybe there is no I, who has an agenda to defend here. Words just lightly pop up from nowhere, there is no weight, no emotional stirring prompting YOU to write? Whom are YOU trying to delude here and why? Irmeli Good questions. I'm not defending a MMY story (or at least I'm not aware that I am). I'm just noting my experience of MMY. Vaj believes certain relative criteria are indicative of enlightenment, something completely outside the realm of relative measure. He says he's right. I say he's wrong. We're having a discussion. You can have a discussion about stories without creating new stories. I don't know how familiar you are with Derida's work on deconstruction. Derida argues, very persuasively once you understand what the hell he's talking about, that all discourse negates itself and means nothing. Yet he's having quite a meaningful discussion about meaninglessness! I see the same thing at play when we discuss stories or points of mental/conceptual attachment. Most people in and out of the TMO defend stories of enlightenment. Yet that condition of enlightenment, for lack of a better concept, is outside of any story. I see one of the great shocks to the mind in enlightenment is the utter emptiness of consciousness. It implies nothing in the relative either good or bad. There is no story of enlightenment. Stories are for the mind only in avidya to entertain itself and to stay attached to a discourse of enlightenment-something that has nothing to do with enlightenment! Like someone fantasizing what it will be like to be enlightened. It has nothing to do with enlightenment and actually prevents enlightenment. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter:MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? Irmeli:I quote an earlier earlier post of yours dr.Pete: The mind wants to have a story as a defense against experiences that contradict its primary story. Why have any story at all? MMY is a con artist; MMY is a great saint. He's both, he's neither, he's nothing. Why have any story/position at all. Does it matter? Attached, non-attached...just more stories. Dr. Pete why do you want to create this story. Enlightened or not enlightened, doesn't matter, just stories. In addition to that enlightenment is a very confusing concept, because it is understood in so many ways. I myself also understand it in many ways. In one end I see every living sentient being to be enlightened and at the other extreme no one qualifies. Why do you need to defend MMY hiding so strongly behind the story of enlightenment (100% true). Or maybe there is no I, who has an agenda to defend here. Words just lightly pop up from nowhere, there is no weight, no emotional stirring prompting YOU to write? Whom are YOU trying to delude here and why? Peter: Good questions. I'm not defending a MMY story (or at least I'm not aware that I am). I'm just noting my experience of MMY. Big snip Irmeli: I would never express my subjective experience in the terms you did: MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Are you implying here that because you are enlightened and you have no separate personal self your perceptions are 100% true? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter:MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? Irmeli:I quote an earlier earlier post of yours dr.Pete: The mind wants to have a story as a defense against experiences that contradict its primary story. Why have any story at all? MMY is a con artist; MMY is a great saint. He's both, he's neither, he's nothing. Why have any story/position at all. Does it matter? Attached, non-attached...just more stories. Dr. Pete why do you want to create this story. Enlightened or not enlightened, doesn't matter, just stories. In addition to that enlightenment is a very confusing concept, because it is understood in so many ways. I myself also understand it in many ways. In one end I see every living sentient being to be enlightened and at the other extreme no one qualifies. Why do you need to defend MMY hiding so strongly behind the story of enlightenment (100% true). Or maybe there is no I, who has an agenda to defend here. Words just lightly pop up from nowhere, there is no weight, no emotional stirring prompting YOU to write? Whom are YOU trying to delude here and why? Peter: Good questions. I'm not defending a MMY story (or at least I'm not aware that I am). I'm just noting my experience of MMY. Big snip Irmeli: I would never express my subjective experience in the terms you did: MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Are you implying here that because you are enlightened and you have no separate personal self your perceptions are 100% true? No, not at all. Everyone's experience is true. I've had many experiences of MMY's Divine nature. MMY is quite obviously enlightened based on the experiences I've had with him. Some will agrue against this, but , for me, it's like walking outside, getting wet because it's raining, walking back inside and having someone argue with you about how do you know you're wet? But with this understanding I also fully agree with many of your posts regarding MMY's apparent narcissistic pathology on the level of his personality. I think we have a lot of stories regarding enlightened behavior (there is no such thing) and MMY is just Natures antidote to remove such false notions and deep attachments He is a Kali Yuga guru, after all! p.s. The last sentence is a story! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet that condition of enlightenment, for lack of a better concept, is outside of any story. I see one of the great shocks to the mind in enlightenment is the utter emptiness of consciousness. It implies nothing in the relative either good or bad. There is no story of enlightenment. Stories are for the mind only in avidya to entertain itself and to stay attached to a discourse of enlightenment-something that has nothing to do with enlightenment! Like someone fantasizing what it will be like to be enlightened. It has nothing to do with enlightenment and actually prevents enlightenment. Yes the condition of enlightenment is not a concept or a story. But we humans have the capacity through language symbolically describe different conditions, phenomenon and processes. It is a wonderful tool as long as we don't mix symbolic representation with the real phenomenon. As we communicate a lot through this symbolic representation called language, we should try to define the concepts we use as precisely as possible. The word enlightenment is an important symbolic representation, but it should be defined accurately each time somebody uses it. Different people mean quite different things by that concept. And that creates unnecessary confusion and arguing. Theories or fables or stories are not just something to entertain oneself with. They have an important role in our making sense of our lived reality and the universe. Problematic they become if you consider them as absolute truth, and even more so if you get punished when testing or questioning those theories. Kali-juga is a fable I have very difficult to relate to at all. I cannot see any useful sense in it. Irmeli Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor.. The big question
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? I quote an earlier earlier post of yours dr.Pete: The mind wants to have a story as a defense against experiences that contradict its primary story. Why have any story at all? MMY is a con artist; MMY is a great saint. He's both, he's neither, he's nothing. Why have any story/position at all. Does it matter? Attached, non-attached...just more stories. Dr. Pete why do you want to create this story. Enlightened or not enlightened, doesn't matter, just stories. In addition to that enlightenment is a very confusing concept, because it is understood in so many ways. I myself also understand it in many ways. In one end I see every living sentient being to be enlightened and at the other extreme no one qualifies. Why do you need to defend MMY hiding so strongly behind the story of enlightenment (100% true). Or maybe there is no I, who has an agenda to defend here. Words just lightly pop up from nowhere, there is no weight, no emotional stirring prompting YOU to write? Whom are YOU trying to delude here and why? Irmeli In all the pondering about MMY's sanity honesty etc I think the real question which underlies it is the effectiveness of the basic TM and the TM-Sidhis programs. There is certainly some thought that if MMY is a con man maybe he missrepresented thier effect. Or maybe The program/s are effective regardless of MMY's personality. This seems to be the big question at least in my mind. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? I'm not sure what your point is, Doc. I've interacted with Maharishi many times, and based on those interactions I would never be tempted to assume that he is enlightened. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? I'm not sure what your point is, Doc. I've interacted with Maharishi many times, and based on those interactions I would never be tempted to assume that he is enlightened. Except in the sense that we all are enlightened, of course. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 30, 2005, at 3:48 PM, Peter wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? While different people will vary somewhat, there are some relative determinants. Sleep is definitely one of them. I believe Judy could probably list the 20 or so determinants from the TMO and what they are, as she has mentioned them before. Judy? They weren't determinants of enlightenment, sorry. It was a lecture called 20 Green Lights to Cosmic Consciousness. The green lights were said to be indicators that one was making progress *toward* Cosmic Consciousness, but they were not presented as absolutes that everyone must have in order to be considered to be progressing. Nor do I remember most of them. The only one I'm sure of, because it struck me funny, is Breathing less. I think sleeping less was one of them too, but I couldn't swear to it. What puzzles me about this exchange is that (a) I can't recall seeing anything here about MMY sleeping eight hours or more; and (b) I've heard *countless* stories from people who worked closely with MMY that he in fact sleeps very little. Maybe, as he ages, he sleeps more than he did, but this is the first time I've heard anything about his sleeping more than a few hours a night, even from the most rabid TM critics. In any case, it seems absurd to me to hold the amount of time a person sleeps to be some kind of surefire indicator of whether they're enlightened. Even the 20 Green Lights lecture said explicitly that the green lights were *tendencies* that one might or might not have. The green lights were positive indicators, but not having them was *not* a negative indicator. (I believe I recall that the lecture was said to have been originated by a TM teacher whose first name was Peter, who was rumored to be in CC himself. He was around the Manhattan TM Center a lot and taught many of its residence courses, another really brilliant teacher. Anybody know who I'm talking about, or what he's doing now? He would tell a joke about a large-mouthed frog, which I can't remember either.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
On Oct 30, 2005, at 5:29 PM, authfriend wrote: Nor do I remember most of them. The only one I'm sure of, because it struck me funny, is Breathing less. I think sleeping less was one of them too, but I couldn't swear to it. What puzzles me about this exchange is that (a) I can't recall seeing anything here about MMY sleeping eight hours or more; and (b) I've heard *countless* stories from people who worked closely with MMY that he in fact sleeps very little. Yeah, me too. But we had some fairly authoritative testimony that this was in fact NOT the case on FFL. It was rather saddening to hear. Some commented that this was the type of misinformation that was being passed around. Maybe, as he ages, he sleeps more than he did, but this is the first time I've heard anything about his sleeping more than a few hours a night, even from the most rabid TM critics. Yeah, I know, like I said, I was shocked--and these (IIRC) were older reports from some of his secretaries. In any case, it seems absurd to me to hold the amount of time a person sleeps to be some kind of surefire indicator of whether they're enlightened. Even the 20 Green Lights lecture said explicitly that the green lights were *tendencies* that one might or might not have. The green lights were positive indicators, but not having them was *not* a negative indicator. I think that's a good word, indicator. However, in the absence of the determinants I have both witnessed and received (often they are given as secret and super secret signs in various initiations) I have to stick with my own observations and my own intuitions on these matters. (I believe I recall that the lecture was said to have been originated by a TM teacher whose first name was Peter, who was rumored to be in CC himself. He was around the Manhattan TM Center a lot and taught many of its residence courses, another really brilliant teacher. Anybody know who I'm talking about, or what he's doing now? He would tell a joke about a large-mouthed frog, which I can't remember either.) It would be interesting to hear and find out about. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
On Oct 30, 2005, at 3:53 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? I'm not sure what your point is, Doc. I've interacted with Maharishi many times, and based on those interactions I would never be tempted to assume that he is enlightened. But if you did *assume* or by leap-of-faith *believe* he was enlightened you could possibly mistake a meditative experience for a validation of the previously *assumed* state...there's the rub... I would bet before Dr. Pete experienced M. as enlightened, he had already accepted that fact. Above and beyond that he had been conditioned--both verbally and subliminally--that M. was some species of exalted person. If this is *not* true, I seriously doubt he (and others) would have continued to invest both time and large sums of money. Acceptance of any mental framework or sequence of objects in consciousness will only self-validate themselves when at anytime afterwards one experiences them from the level of the void (or pure consciousness). Thus previously accepted ideas can and will present themselves as (seemingly) genuine experiences (and validation). They are a form of validation--but only of the thoughts we have accepted at some level of our being. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy You must be referring to Peter Muldavin, one of the funniest guys ever. Here is what he has been up to: http://www.kiddierekordking.com/aboutme.html Ken (I believe I recall that the lecture was said to have been originated by a TM teacher whose first name was Peter, who was rumored to be in CC himself. He was around the Manhattan TM Center a lot and taught many of its residence courses, another really brilliant teacher. Anybody know who I'm talking about, or what he's doing now? He would tell a joke about a large-mouthed frog, which I can't remember either.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Stokes and Barbara Dickins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought Donna Seibert developped the 20 Green Lights of CC lecture, but maybe Peter Muldavin developped it and she also gave the lecture. Dunno, Stokes, I may have gotten it wrong. I know teachers other than Peter did give the lecture, but my memory was that he had put it together. Maybe whoever told me that was mistaken. Say hi to Barbara for me! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? I'm not sure what your point is, Doc. I've interacted with Maharishi many times, and based on those interactions I would never be tempted to assume that he is enlightened. Except in the sense that we all are enlightened, of course. :-) I suspect Maharishi is enlightened. I have never met him, and many of his techniques and teaching methods aren't fool-proof, nor any evidence necessarily of his enlightenment. Nonetheless, his interest in, his goal of enlightening the world, and my intuition lead me to believe that he is enlightened. And that, and $4 will buy you a big cup of coffee... By that I mean, it is really, really unimportant imo whether the man is enlightened, or not. Doesn't necessarily inform his skill as a teacher- just makes him a magnetic personality and drives his interest in the subject. In other words, it is impossible to determine through his teaching methods or his actions whether he is enlightened. And his teaching approach has absolutely no association with his state of consciousness. The whole issue is a bit of a yawn at this point. Lots of tamas associated with it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 30, 2005, at 3:48 PM, Peter wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? While different people will vary somewhat, there are some relative determinants. Sleep is definitely one of them. MMY has never said anything, as far as Iknow, about quantity of sleep being a determinant of enlightenment. In fact, he goes with the BG on external indicators with the caveat that he thinks that physiological measures not available save in the past 50 years or so can give insight into states of consciousness, including enlightenment. I believe Judy could probably list the 20 or so determinants from the TMO and what they are, as she has mentioned them before. Judy? If nothing in the relative indicated *anything* about enlightenment, then the TMO would not've bothered with all this research on the neurophysiology of enlightenment, etc. I'd even go so far as to say the TMO model of enlightenment contains some elements of truth but is incomplete and extremely misleading. It has been created to help market the techniques they sell. Therefore, due to it's incompleteness, it leads people to prematurely imagine their own exalted status. I'd go so far as to say that the TMO presentation of what enlightenment is or is not is far superior to your own. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 30, 2005, at 3:53 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you reconcile the fact, which was mentioned on here in some detail, that M. sleeps a full eight hours or more and the fact that enlightened beings require little sleep? There are numerous other items which would bring into question M.'s enlightenment. So the story goes. MMY is fully enlightened, no doubt about it, 100% true. Nothing in the relative indicates anything regarding enlightenment. All mind games and ego positions. Vaj, have you ever interacted with MMY personally? I'm not sure what your point is, Doc. I've interacted with Maharishi many times, and based on those interactions I would never be tempted to assume that he is enlightened. But if you did *assume* or by leap-of-faith *believe* he was enlightened you could possibly mistake a meditative experience for a validation of the previously *assumed* state...there's the rub... I would bet before Dr. Pete experienced M. as enlightened, he had already accepted that fact. Above and beyond that he had been conditioned--both verbally and subliminally--that M. was some species of exalted person. If this is *not* true, I seriously doubt he (and others) would have continued to invest both time and large sums of money. Acceptance of any mental framework or sequence of objects in consciousness will only self-validate themselves when at anytime afterwards one experiences them from the level of the void (or pure consciousness). Thus previously accepted ideas can and will present themselves as (seemingly) genuine experiences (and validation). They are a form of validation--but only of the thoughts we have accepted at some level of our being. Thanks for this hint at the higher level of Truth that you, of all people on this forum, are the only one privy to... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/12/05 12:47 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/6/05 2:37 PM, peterklutz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one seen the Oct 5, 2005 press conference? It's now official: the Prime Minister of the Global Country of World Peace, His Excellency Dr Bevan Morris, is Enlightened and is capable of answering any question as well as handling any task. Tom T: I have two friends who are Enlightened And you knowthis because? My question would have been Only two? same diff. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/6/05 2:37 PM, peterklutz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one seen the Oct 5, 2005 press conference? It's now official: the Prime Minister of the Global Country of World Peace, His Excellency Dr Bevan Morris, is Enlightened and is capable of answering any question as well as handling any task. Tom T: I have two friends who are Enlightened And you knowthis because? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..
on 10/12/05 12:47 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/6/05 2:37 PM, peterklutz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one seen the Oct 5, 2005 press conference? It's now official: the Prime Minister of the Global Country of World Peace, His Excellency Dr Bevan Morris, is Enlightened and is capable of answering any question as well as handling any task. Tom T: I have two friends who are Enlightened And you knowthis because? My question would have been Only two? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
