Judy,
I got it down to this mess! Thanks for the opportunity to dwell on
this topic so long.
I think I understand your position better. If I were looking at this
discussion your way I would have concluded that Sam is trying to use
an inappropriate system on religious beliefs. But am not
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Judy,
I got it down to this mess! Thanks for the opportunity to dwell on
this topic so long.
Gee, this is an impressive piece of thinking and
writing, Curtis. Lemme ponder it a bit. I agree
with some of your
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sam is really having this debate with the wrong person.
I don't wish to add more hot air to this already-
Hindenberg-sized debate, but you're sure right on
this one. Who Harris should be debating (were he still
Those were great quotes! Anti-intellectual in bias, but funny as
shit. The funny thing is that although I appreciate Sam's thinking, I
find him completely humorless. He would look like a stone in a debate
with this guy.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, I look forward to it.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
Judy,
I got it down to this mess! Thanks for the opportunity to dwell on
this topic so long.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Those were great quotes! Anti-intellectual in bias, but
funny as shit. The funny thing is that although I appreciate
Sam's thinking, I find him completely humorless. He would
look like a stone in a debate with
I'm a big fan of Shaw, I'll look that up. I think the good match up
would be with Madalyn O'Hair. She got me to laugh my way out of my
religious beliefs completely!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
On Feb 24, 2007, at 10:48 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
Those were great quotes! Anti-intellectual in bias, but funny as
shit. The funny thing is that although I appreciate Sam's thinking, I
find him completely humorless. He would look like a stone in a debate
with this guy.
I found parts
Yes that is where I have seen him the most. Just his existence as a
conservative, gay Cathlic is a mindbender. I agree that his is a
mixed bag, smart but not the most logical guy.
Sam's very dry wit does come through in his Letter to a Christian
Nation. He is just not good in a personal debate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
Sam is really having this debate with the wrong person.
I don't wish to add more hot air to this already-
Hindenberg-sized debate,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 24, 2007, at 10:48 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
Those were great quotes! Anti-intellectual in bias, but funny as
shit. The funny thing is that although I appreciate Sam's
thinking, I
find him completely
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@
wrote:
snip
Let your religion be less of a theory and more of a love affair.
You can only find truth with logic if you have already found
truth
On Feb 24, 2007, at 11:55 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
Yes that is where I have seen him the most. Just his existence as a
conservative, gay Cathlic is a mindbender. I agree that his is a
mixed bag, smart but not the most logical guy.
Sam's very dry wit does come through in his Letter to a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 24, 2007, at 11:55 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
Yes that is where I have seen him the most. Just his
existence as a conservative, gay Cathlic is a mindbender.
I agree that his is a mixed bag, smart but not the
Madelyn O'Hair's fate in the press proves your point. He is on a
tightrope with this topic.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 24, 2007, at 11:55 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
Yes that is where I have seen him the most. Just his existence as a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 24, 2007, at 11:55 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
Yes that is where I have seen him the most. Just his existence
as a
conservative, gay Cathlic is a mindbender. I agree that his is a
mixed bag, smart but not the
On Feb 24, 2007, at 12:59 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
Madelyn O'Hair's fate in the press proves your point. He is on a
tightrope with this topic.
Indeed. Even a slight curl of the lip could turn people off; it's
such a sensitive topic.
BTW, if you had missed some earlier posted videos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've been giving a lot of thought to this discussion. I wrote
a bunch of things that I never posted. We are seeing Sam's
points so differently. I think you are reading in a lot of
emotion into Sam's position
On Feb 22, 2007, at 10:14 PM, tanhlnx wrote:
---Vaj, you're not making sense. Regardless of the purpose, yidam
(god) worship is all the same, call it what you want; but much of
Tibetan Buddhism is similar to the god-worship of the Hindus. Even
the iconography is similar, say Mahakali vs the
On Feb 22, 2007, at 11:00 PM, hyperbolicgeometry wrote:
--Re: Vaj says that Tibetan Buddhist yidam worship is not really
god worship and therefore (a) is dissimilar to Hindui worship -
being part of wisdom oriented sadhana.(b) doesn't fall under the
scrutiny of Sam Harris' attacks on
On Feb 23, 2007, at 2:20 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
I have no interest in this, except to correct
a mistake below:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Since Harris claims to be a Buddhist, doesn't
make him (and Vaj) somewhat hypocritical?
Harris
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've been giving a lot of thought to this discussion.
I wrote a bunch of things that I never posted. We are
seeing Sam's points so differently. I think you are
reading in a lot of emotion into Sam's position
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
I've been giving a lot of thought to this discussion. I wrote
a bunch of things that I never posted. We are seeing Sam's
points so
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[Barry, 2:20 a.m. EST:]
I have no interest in this, except to correct
a mistake below:
[Barry, 3:22 a.m. EST:]
All in all, it's been an interesting discussion,
if a little long-winded.
guffaw
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
[Barry, 2:20 a.m. EST:]
I have no interest in this, except to correct
a mistake below:
[Barry, 3:22 a.m. EST:]
All in all, it's been an
On Feb 23, 2007, at 1:01 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
I think Andrew is really interesting and his Blogger please line
forever warmed me to him. But I think it is as impossible for him to
understand where Sam is coming from as it is for me to understand
where you are coming from, for different
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@
wrote:
[Barry, 2:20 a.m. EST:]
I have no interest in this, except to correct
a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 22, 2007, at 11:00 PM, hyperbolicgeometry wrote:
--Re: Vaj says that Tibetan Buddhist yidam worship is
not really
god worship and therefore (a) is dissimilar to Hindui worship -
being part of wisdom oriented
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 23, 2007, at 2:20 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
I have no interest in this, except to correct
a mistake below:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry
hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote:
Since Harris
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Feb 23, 2007, at 2:20 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
I have no interest in this, except to correct
a mistake below:
--- In
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 23, 2007, at 1:01 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
I think Andrew is really interesting and his Blogger please
line
forever warmed me to him. But I think it is as impossible for
him to
understand where Sam is
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Feb 23, 2007, at 2:20 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
I have no interest in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Check out this quote:
While you believe that bringing an end to religion is an
impossible goal, it is important to realize that much of the
developed world has nearly accomplished it. Norway, Iceland,
Australia,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yu have to be pretty extreme to go with that idea about backpacks
and blowing yourself up.
Even the idea that God wants you to be celibate before marriage is
pretty hard for most
people to work with.
The
Judy,
Thanks for the long response. It has helped me understand where we
are seeing this discussion differently. I also really enjoy the fact
that your take on it is very personal and that you haven't drunk from
either glass of KoolAid! My lips are stained with Sam's POV, but that
doesn't
I really dug that book. Nice quote. It seems to me that most modern
people in the West have diminished the role of their faith as
something they pull out at special occasions out of cultural habit
rather than a profound faith.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 23, 2007, at 11:28 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
I really dug that book. Nice quote. It seems to me that most modern
people in the West have diminished the role of their faith as
something they pull out at special occasions out of cultural habit
rather than a profound faith.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 22, 2007, at 10:14 PM, tanhlnx wrote:
---Vaj, you're not making sense. Regardless of the purpose, yidam
(god) worship is all the same, call it what you want; but much of
Tibetan Buddhism is similar to the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
Ken Wilber makes a great case that the epistemology
of subjective exploration (i.e., exploration of
consciousness) proceeds by the same fundamental
rules as the scientific method, but that's a whole
'nother
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
Yu have to be pretty extreme to go with that idea about backpacks
and blowing yourself up.
Even the idea that God wants you to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
[...]
Ken Wilber makes a great case that the epistemology
of subjective exploration (i.e., exploration of
consciousness) proceeds by the same
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
Yu have to be pretty extreme to go with that idea about
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@
wrote:
[...]
Ken Wilber makes a great case that the epistemology
of subjective
It's reassuring to know that MMY and JPII were on the same page.
jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Judy,
Thanks for the long response. It has helped me understand where we
are seeing this discussion differently. I also really enjoy the
fact
that your take on it is very personal and that you haven't drunk
I wrote a bunch of stuff but I am going to sit on it a while and try
to edit it down a bit.
Starting with the highest knowledge first Nigga please is ebonics
for disdainful incredulity. That is the whitest way that term has
ever been defined! Here is a Chris Rock Parody on the term:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
[...]
Ken Wilber makes a great case that the epistemology
of subjective
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wrote a bunch of stuff but I am going to sit on it a while and try
to edit it down a bit.
Starting with the highest knowledge first Nigga please is ebonics
for disdainful incredulity. That is the whitest
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@
wrote:
[...]
Ken
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@
wrote:
--- In
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--Lon at46gordonsquare@ wrote:
As could be expected, Harris batted Sullivan's pseudo-argument
out of the park into the next county. I was tempted to abandon
reading the entirety of Sullivan's text after a few
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Then, maybe then, you'll realize *why* worship of god or gods is
the
greatest danger we all face.
This is easily the most idiotic thing I've ever read here on FFL.
-(below); Jim's reply to Vaj's statement that worship of the gods is
dangerous:
Actually, Harris is critical of god worship only in the context of
faith-based religious assumptions; and states that (something like
this) is OK in his world-view: When I meditate on Jesus, I feel an
ecstatic
--Right, but the strawman miracles are in the same category as some
of the items Sullivan brings up (aspects of Catholocism that are
remote from his direct experience feel-good inspirations based on
the Bible and the history of the Church). Harris lumps the whole ball
of wax into one pinada
On Feb 22, 2007, at 8:57 PM, coshlnx wrote:
Actually, Harris is critical of god worship only in the context of
faith-based religious assumptions; and states that (something like
this) is OK in his world-view: When I meditate on Jesus, I feel an
ecstatic Spiritual epiphany, and therefore you
---Vaj, you're not making sense. Regardless of the purpose, yidam
(god) worship is all the same, call it what you want; but much of
Tibetan Buddhism is similar to the god-worship of the Hindus. Even
the iconography is similar, say Mahakali vs the same Mahakali in
Hinduism; Ganesh worship in
--Re: Vaj says that Tibetan Buddhist yidam worship is not really
god worship and therefore (a) is dissimilar to Hindui worship -
being part of wisdom oriented sadhana.(b) doesn't fall under the
scrutiny of Sam Harris' attacks on faith-based religion.
Nope, factually incorrect since the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 22, 2007, at 7:45 PM, qntmpkt wrote:
As could be expected, Harris batted Sullivan's pseudo-argument out of
the park into the next county. I was tempted to abandon reading the
entirety of Sullivan's text after a
Actually, extreme attachment to an idea, whether it is that TM is
the bestest or that
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is a pervert, is the greatest danger we all face.
Simple worship of a god or gods ranks pretty low compared to THAT.
I was going to go with the belief that God wants me to strap on a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Feb 22, 2007, at 7:45 PM, qntmpkt wrote:
As could be expected, Harris batted Sullivan's pseudo-argument
out of
the park into the next county. I
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--Right, but the strawman miracles are in the same category
as some of the items Sullivan brings up (aspects of Catholocism
that are remote from his direct experience feel-good
inspirations based on the Bible and the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Actually, extreme attachment to an idea, whether it is that TM is
the bestest or that
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is a pervert, is the greatest danger we all face.
Simple worship of a god or gods ranks pretty
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
On Feb 22, 2007, at 7:45 PM, qntmpkt wrote:
As could be expected,
Yu have to be pretty extreme to go with that idea about backpacks
and blowing yourself up.
Even the idea that God wants you to be celibate before marriage is
pretty hard for most
people to work with.
The weird thing is that I seem to read another human bomb going off
every few days in
I've been giving a lot of thought to this discussion. I wrote a bunch
of things that I never posted. We are seeing Sam's points so
differently. I think you are reading in a lot of emotion into Sam's
position that is from you, not him. I also think you are missing
Sam's whole point if you think
I have no interest in this, except to correct
a mistake below:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Since Harris claims to be a Buddhist, doesn't
make him (and Vaj) somewhat hypocritical?
Harris does not claim to be a Buddhist, and
in fact in one
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