Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread MaiMaiPG

Those would make nice outdoor shelters...weighted of course.
On Jul 8, 2011, at 8:30 PM, dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net 
 wrote:


Styrofoam?  Harley and Dee would make hash out of them in no time.   
If it resist the claws, it gets clawed to death.

 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

Are they called totes?
I use large Styrofoam containers to ship chemo to hospitals - a  
friend is an
oncology nurse practitioner and saves them for us. They're larger  
than

Styrofoam coolers, sturdier, and already insulated.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:08 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

Totes are wonderful.  I leave the top off and the boys are young
enough to jump in the 18 gallon totes and the lower larger ones are
wonderful too.  I figured this out when I had a wonderful boy who,
late in life, had issues getting positioned.  Besides the totes are a
lot cheaper and more appropriately sized.  FYI:  They make great
outdoor shelters too.
On Jul 8, 2011, at 4:57 PM, Edna Taylor wrote:



I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large
however, I noticed that others have responded with no problems so I
will try again (after deleting most of the original emails).  I have
used Feline Pine at home before and the rescue group I am with used
to use it at their Petsmart adoptions.  The smell (to me) was gawd
awful after they had used the box even once and even customers
complained about the smell in the adoption center.  We had to go
back to scoopable in both places but especially at the store because
people would not go in to meet the cats due to the smell and it was
scooped on a regular basis.

For our house, we have switched from hooded boxes to large
Rubbermaid Totes.  Frank cuts a large hole in one end so the cats
can get in and out and it prevents our elevator b*tt peers from
peeing over the side.  We also use a low dust litter.  So far, our
cats have done well and most of our cats are 12 and up.

Edna



Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:07:15 -0400
From: athenapities...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

Oh - I just found a Petco version of the wheat litter, Sweat Scoop.
It got
good online reviews.




On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Katy Doyle
athenapities...@gmail.comwrote:


Well, this has inspired me to check out Feline Pine - has anyone
used it
before?



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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread Cindy McHugh
When I was caring for a feral colony, I got a bunch of the styrofoam coolers 
that steaks were shipped in, cut a small hole in one side, anchored the top, 
and put them out for shelters in the winter. The cats used them and they 
lasted a long time.


Cindy

- Original Message - 
From: MaiMaiPG maima...@gmail.com

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =



Those would make nice outdoor shelters...weighted of course.
On Jul 8, 2011, at 8:30 PM, dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net
 wrote:

Styrofoam?  Harley and Dee would make hash out of them in no time.   If 
it resist the claws, it gets clawed to death.

 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

Are they called totes?
I use large Styrofoam containers to ship chemo to hospitals - a  friend 
is an

oncology nurse practitioner and saves them for us. They're larger  than
Styrofoam coolers, sturdier, and already insulated.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:08 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

Totes are wonderful.  I leave the top off and the boys are young
enough to jump in the 18 gallon totes and the lower larger ones are
wonderful too.  I figured this out when I had a wonderful boy who,
late in life, had issues getting positioned.  Besides the totes are a
lot cheaper and more appropriately sized.  FYI:  They make great
outdoor shelters too.
On Jul 8, 2011, at 4:57 PM, Edna Taylor wrote:



I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large
however, I noticed that others have responded with no problems so I
will try again (after deleting most of the original emails).  I have
used Feline Pine at home before and the rescue group I am with used
to use it at their Petsmart adoptions.  The smell (to me) was gawd
awful after they had used the box even once and even customers
complained about the smell in the adoption center.  We had to go
back to scoopable in both places but especially at the store because
people would not go in to meet the cats due to the smell and it was
scooped on a regular basis.

For our house, we have switched from hooded boxes to large
Rubbermaid Totes.  Frank cuts a large hole in one end so the cats
can get in and out and it prevents our elevator b*tt peers from
peeing over the side.  We also use a low dust litter.  So far, our
cats have done well and most of our cats are 12 and up.

Edna



Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:07:15 -0400
From: athenapities...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

Oh - I just found a Petco version of the wheat litter, Sweat Scoop.
It got
good online reviews.




On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Katy Doyle
athenapities...@gmail.comwrote:


Well, this has inspired me to check out Feline Pine - has anyone
used it
before?


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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread Natalie
The smelly poop cat (Ophelia) is very healthy for her age - not even any
renal problems; she just doesn't assimilate the food properly - eats and
poopsshe is NOT FIV/FeLV+
Oh, YES, I DO wake up to Ophelia's aroma - and her litter box is in a
bathroom far awaypast our bathroom, a hallway.
None of our 5 FIV cats has runny poop.  I do sprinkle some
acidophilus/probiotic into their food for better digestion...however, it's
NOT working with Ophelia's - hers is sort-of Carvel ice cream consistency!

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


I doubt she could compete with my FIV + cat.  It has actually woken me up in
the middle of the night.  It's really bad because he doesn't cover so as
soon as I get the first whiff of it I drop everything and go running to find
which litterbox he used and cover it immediately.  Even if I'm eating I put
everything down and go take care of it.  It's not like I could eat anymore
anyway!  Yuck.  Lots of times in the middle of winter I have my patio door
wide open to get the smell out.
 
He's always had runny poop too.  Think it's cause of the FIV?  I heard that
it can have that effect on them.  But then I wondered if it's something
else.  Do any of you guys have FIV + cats that almost always have runny
poops?


I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain
 

 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:36:48 -0400
 From: at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of
her
 poop: It could raise the dead! It is so potent, that I wait at night until
 she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
 International smelliest poop contest!
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:30 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
 Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly
 poop! His name is Sugar after all.
 
 Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez,
 couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my
 first cat about 6 or 7 years ago.
 
 It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the different
 kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets so
 confusing though.
 
 
 I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
 profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
 unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
 sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
 Twain
 
 
  From: longhornf...@verizon.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:15:07 -0500
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
  
  I've never heard of that problem, but then I don't keep the litter boxes
 in 
  a closed area like you would an adoption center. It's fine to use at
home
 in 
  an open area. I have 3 litter boxes with Feline Pine (non-pellet form)
in 
  our master bathroom. It actually controls the odors. I like it as well
as 
  the cats.
  
  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
  
  
  
   I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large however,
I
 
   noticed that others have responded with no problems so I will try
again 
   (after deleting most of the original emails). I have used Feline Pine
at
 
   home before and the rescue group I am with used to use it at their 
   Petsmart adoptions. The smell (to me) was gawd awful after they had
used
 
   the box even once and even customers complained about the smell in the

   adoption center. We had to go back to scoopable in both places but 
   especially at the store because people would not go in to meet the
cats 
   due to the smell and it was scooped on a regular basis.
  
   For our house, we have switched from hooded boxes to large Rubbermaid 
   Totes. Frank cuts a large hole in one end so the cats can get in and
out
 
   and it prevents our elevator b*tt peers from peeing over the side. We 
   also use a low dust litter. So far, our cats have done well and most
of 
   our cats are 12 and up.
  
   Edna
  
  
   Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:07:15 -0400
   From: athenapities...@gmail.com
   To: 

Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread Natalie
I don't like that one, eater - I just add baking soda to refresh the litter
and over wet areas where the litter was removed - it helps a lot!

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:07 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

I fond the Arm  Hammer to be extremely dusty, also a litter that said it
was made from desert sand.  Krger carried it.  I got one box and tried it in
one of the boxes.  Threw it out the next day.  The cats and I were sneezing
and I found a fine coat of dust all over my room.

 Cindy McHugh ci...@furangels.org wrote: 
 Oh my goodness! Thank you so much for sharing this information. I just 
 checked both types of litter I have in the house and neither have an 
 ingredient label. One is Fresh Step and the other is Premium Choice All 
 Natural Unscented. I just found the Premium Choice at Pet Supplies Plus
and 
 haven't opened/tried it yet.
 
 I tried Feline Pine previously, but the cats didn't like it. I used to use

 something by Arm  Hammer that was almost like saw dust, but it was
getting 
 so expensive as I took in more cats that I went back to the clumping clay
- 
 not realizing the risks. I'll try the method you described using regular 
 litter and baking soda.
 
 Thanks again for sharing this info. I'll be sure to pass it on to others I

 know who are using the clumping litter.
 
 Cindy
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:36 AM
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
  Here's more, and this is just the tip of the iceberg!
 
  The #1 Authority On Pet Products, Care and Services Pet Owners Trust
Most
 
  Kitty Litter with a Serious Warning
 
  Vets have been reporting more and more kitty illnesses related to
litter.
  Certain litters are actually causing serious problems for our feline 
  friends
  including asthma, bronchitis, intestinal blockage and possibly even lung
  cancer.
 
  Most litters are loaded with chemicals to reduce odor and help with
  absorption. These chemicals are released into the air when your cat digs

  in
  the litter box. The dust from the litter gets into the cat's lungs and
can
  wreak havoc on its immune system, putting his or her health in jeopardy.
  With every visit to the litter box, your cat may be polluting its lungs.
  Damage can occur in just a short period of time.
 
  Clumping clay litter, which forms a hard ball when it gets wet, is one
of
  the most harmful types on the market. Several brands use this clay to
make
  their litter easier to scoop. What makes it clump? It's a natural clay
  ingredient called sodium bentonite. In this case, natural is not
always
  safe. Here's the problem: When this clay gets wet it expands and forms a
  hard mass. So when your cat or kitten digs in the litter box it's
stirring
  up clay dust and breathing it in. Once it gets into their lungs, it 
  expands
  from the moisture, and in time builds up, causing all sorts of lung 
  problems
  like the ones mentioned above.
 
  Some clumping litters actually post a warning right on the bag; Do Not 
  Let
  Cat Ingest Litter. It is ridiculous to think that you can stop your cat
  from breathing while visiting the litter box .You cannot stop your cat 
  from
  grooming itself with its tongue or stop your new kitten from swatting
and
  nibbling on the litter. Anything their tongue contacts gets ingested.
Once
  the clay litter is inside the cat or kitten and expands, it not only
could
  cause dehydration by absorbing all the body's moisture, it could also
form 
  a
  hard mass in the intestines over a period of time, which could be fatal.
 
  The problem of health difficulties and even deaths resulting from
clumping
  litters extend far beyond cats and kittens to ferrets, rabbits, and even
  dogs that raid litter boxes. So what can you do? The solution is easy,
  simple and inexpensive. Switch to a biodegradable, dust and clay free,
  non-clumping litter. Many of these biodegradable litters are made from
  recycled paper, which will help to save the environment as well as your 
  pet.
  You can find these products almost anywhere, just read the label. If 
  you're
  worried about odor, sprinkle a small amount of baking soda in with the
  litter. It works better than litter deodorizers that just cover up odors
  instead of absorbing them. You can also find a litter box with a top
that
  has a filter for odor control.
 
  Now that you know some of the dangers and their solutions regarding
kitty
  litter, hope you will pass this information on to a friend. You could be
  saving the health or life of an animal.
 
 
 
 
  ___
  Felvtalk mailing list
  Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org 
 

Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread Lynda Wilson

Have you tried Fortiflora?


- Original Message - 
From: Natalie at...@optonline.net

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =



The smelly poop cat (Ophelia) is very healthy for her age - not even any
renal problems; she just doesn't assimilate the food properly - eats and
poopsshe is NOT FIV/FeLV+
Oh, YES, I DO wake up to Ophelia's aroma - and her litter box is in a
bathroom far awaypast our bathroom, a hallway.
None of our 5 FIV cats has runny poop.  I do sprinkle some
acidophilus/probiotic into their food for better digestion...however, it's
NOT working with Ophelia's - hers is sort-of Carvel ice cream consistency!

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


I doubt she could compete with my FIV + cat.  It has actually woken me up 
in

the middle of the night.  It's really bad because he doesn't cover so as
soon as I get the first whiff of it I drop everything and go running to 
find
which litterbox he used and cover it immediately.  Even if I'm eating I 
put

everything down and go take care of it.  It's not like I could eat anymore
anyway!  Yuck.  Lots of times in the middle of winter I have my patio door
wide open to get the smell out.

He's always had runny poop too.  Think it's cause of the FIV?  I heard 
that

it can have that effect on them.  But then I wondered if it's something
else.  Do any of you guys have FIV + cats that almost always have runny
poops?


I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain



Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:36:48 -0400
From: at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of

her
poop: It could raise the dead! It is so potent, that I wait at night 
until

she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
International smelliest poop contest!

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:30 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly
poop! His name is Sugar after all.

Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez,
couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my
first cat about 6 or 7 years ago.

It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the different
kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets so
confusing though.


I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that 
are

profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain


 From: longhornf...@verizon.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:15:07 -0500
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

 I've never heard of that problem, but then I don't keep the litter 
 boxes

in
 a closed area like you would an adoption center. It's fine to use at

home

in
 an open area. I have 3 litter boxes with Feline Pine (non-pellet form)

in

 our master bathroom. It actually controls the odors. I like it as well

as

 the cats.


 - Original Message - 
 From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com

 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


 
  I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large 
  however,

I


  noticed that others have responded with no problems so I will try

again

  (after deleting most of the original emails). I have used Feline Pine

at


  home before and the rescue group I am with used to use it at their
  Petsmart adoptions. The smell (to me) was gawd awful after they had

used


  the box even once and even customers complained about the smell in 
  the



  adoption center. We had to go back to scoopable in both places but
  especially at the store because people would not go in to meet the

cats

  due to the smell and it was scooped on a regular basis.
 
  For our house, we have switched from hooded boxes to large Rubbermaid
  Totes. Frank cuts a large hole in one end so the cats can get in and

out


  and it prevents our elevator b*tt peers from peeing over the side. We
  also use a low dust litter. So far, our 

Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread Natalie
Yes, I have tried it - it costs a lot more than just good old plain
probiotics/acidophilus and cats immediately detect it in the food - won't
touch it! I think it's just one more way for the company and vets to make
money on a product specifically for cats.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 11:14 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

Have you tried Fortiflora?


- Original Message - 
From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


 The smelly poop cat (Ophelia) is very healthy for her age - not even any
 renal problems; she just doesn't assimilate the food properly - eats and
 poopsshe is NOT FIV/FeLV+
 Oh, YES, I DO wake up to Ophelia's aroma - and her litter box is in a
 bathroom far awaypast our bathroom, a hallway.
 None of our 5 FIV cats has runny poop.  I do sprinkle some
 acidophilus/probiotic into their food for better digestion...however, it's
 NOT working with Ophelia's - hers is sort-of Carvel ice cream consistency!

 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:46 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


 I doubt she could compete with my FIV + cat.  It has actually woken me up 
 in
 the middle of the night.  It's really bad because he doesn't cover so as
 soon as I get the first whiff of it I drop everything and go running to 
 find
 which litterbox he used and cover it immediately.  Even if I'm eating I 
 put
 everything down and go take care of it.  It's not like I could eat anymore
 anyway!  Yuck.  Lots of times in the middle of winter I have my patio door
 wide open to get the smell out.

 He's always had runny poop too.  Think it's cause of the FIV?  I heard 
 that
 it can have that effect on them.  But then I wondered if it's something
 else.  Do any of you guys have FIV + cats that almost always have runny
 poops?


 I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
 profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
 unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
 sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
 Twain


 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:36:48 -0400
 From: at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

 We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of
 her
 poop: It could raise the dead! It is so potent, that I wait at night 
 until
 she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
 International smelliest poop contest!

 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:30 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


 Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly
 poop! His name is Sugar after all.

 Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez,
 couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my
 first cat about 6 or 7 years ago.

 It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the different
 kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets so
 confusing though.


 I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that 
 are
 profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
 unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
 sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
 Twain


  From: longhornf...@verizon.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:15:07 -0500
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
  I've never heard of that problem, but then I don't keep the litter 
  boxes
 in
  a closed area like you would an adoption center. It's fine to use at
 home
 in
  an open area. I have 3 litter boxes with Feline Pine (non-pellet form)
 in
  our master bathroom. It actually controls the odors. I like it as well
 as
  the cats.
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
  
   I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large 
   however,
 I

   noticed that others have responded with no problems so I will try
 again
   (after deleting most of the original emails). I have used Feline Pine
 at

   home before and the rescue group I am with used to use it at their
   Petsmart adoptions. The smell (to me) 

Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread Lynda Wilson

You're right, but my cat loved it.


- Original Message - 
From: Natalie at...@optonline.net

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =



Yes, I have tried it - it costs a lot more than just good old plain
probiotics/acidophilus and cats immediately detect it in the food - won't
touch it! I think it's just one more way for the company and vets to make
money on a product specifically for cats.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 11:14 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

Have you tried Fortiflora?


- Original Message - 
From: Natalie at...@optonline.net

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =



The smelly poop cat (Ophelia) is very healthy for her age - not even any
renal problems; she just doesn't assimilate the food properly - eats and
poopsshe is NOT FIV/FeLV+
Oh, YES, I DO wake up to Ophelia's aroma - and her litter box is in a
bathroom far awaypast our bathroom, a hallway.
None of our 5 FIV cats has runny poop.  I do sprinkle some
acidophilus/probiotic into their food for better digestion...however, 
it's
NOT working with Ophelia's - hers is sort-of Carvel ice cream 
consistency!


-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


I doubt she could compete with my FIV + cat.  It has actually woken me up
in
the middle of the night.  It's really bad because he doesn't cover so as
soon as I get the first whiff of it I drop everything and go running to
find
which litterbox he used and cover it immediately.  Even if I'm eating I
put
everything down and go take care of it.  It's not like I could eat 
anymore
anyway!  Yuck.  Lots of times in the middle of winter I have my patio 
door

wide open to get the smell out.

He's always had runny poop too.  Think it's cause of the FIV?  I heard
that
it can have that effect on them.  But then I wondered if it's something
else.  Do any of you guys have FIV + cats that almost always have runny
poops?


I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that 
are

profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain



Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:36:48 -0400
From: at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of

her

poop: It could raise the dead! It is so potent, that I wait at night
until
she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
International smelliest poop contest!

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:30 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly
poop! His name is Sugar after all.

Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez,
couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my
first cat about 6 or 7 years ago.

It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the 
different
kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets 
so

confusing though.


I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that
are
profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to 
me

sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain


 From: longhornf...@verizon.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:15:07 -0500
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

 I've never heard of that problem, but then I don't keep the litter
 boxes
in
 a closed area like you would an adoption center. It's fine to use at

home

in
 an open area. I have 3 litter boxes with Feline Pine (non-pellet form)

in

 our master bathroom. It actually controls the odors. I like it as well

as

 the cats.


 - Original Message - 
 From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com

 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


 
  I tried to respond earlier but it bounced back as too large
  however,

I


  noticed that others have responded with no problems so I will try

again
  (after deleting most of the original 

[Felvtalk] Why do cats eat grass?

2011-07-09 Thread Natalie


Why Do Cats Eat Grass? 


By Kathy Blumenstock, Animal Planet

How often have you seen your cat happily chewing on blades of fresh green
grass, and wondered why? You dish up the choicest cat food and offer gourmet
treats, yet given the chance, Kitty chows down on the lawn as if she's a
snacking racehorse. But there's little need to fret over the appeal of the
feline salad bar, even when she throws it all up.

Grazing in the Grass

The juices in grass contain folic acid, a vitamin essential to a cat's
well-being. Folic acid, also present in the mother cat's milk, aids the
production of oxygen in the cat's bloodstream. A folic acid deficiency may
lead to anemia, and a young cat's growth can be stunted if she doesn't get
enough of it. Do cats instinctively know they're deficient in folic acid and
nibble grass to right the situation? Even experts can only guess. For a cat
who never goes outdoors, folic acid supplements are available, to be added
to your cat's food. Your vet can advise whether your cat can benefit from
these.

That Laxative Appeal

Since cats themselves can't say, experts theorize that cats eat grass as a
natural laxative. It may add fiber and bulk to their diet, helping them pass
worms or fur through their intestinal tract. If broader-leafed varieties
offer a laxative effect, thinner-leafed grass induces cats to vomit. But
veterinarians stop short of declaring grass necessary. It may assist in
clearing things out, but healthy cats are able to process and pass matter
out without this help. Some experts believe cats eat grass to settle their
stomachs, much as humans pop an antacid tablet. Others say cats simply like
the texture and taste of grass, no matter what its properties do for their
insides.

Heave-Ho

After munching away on grass, a short time later, cats inevitably upchuck
those greens. Not because they're gagging on the veggie flavor. It's because
cats' systems do not have the correct enzymes to digest plant matter. By
regurgitating grass, the cat also expels other indigestible items she may
have eaten - which could include fur balls from grooming, or feathers and
bones from any prey she has consumed. Clearing her digestive tract this way
is healthy for the cat. It alleviates any feeling of discomfort, even if the
process, and its end-products, may repulse her owner. So don't punish your
cat for upchucking!

Healthy Habit or Dangerous Delicacy?

While eating grass may seem unappealing to you, many cats love it and it's
not generally harmful to them. They rarely eat more than occasional small
amounts, but if yours eats it daily or in large amounts, that could indicate
intestinal distress that should be addressed by your vet. If your cat is an
indoor-outdoor pet, supervise her grazing when you take her outside. Keep
her away from grass or plants that have been chemically treated and always
use pet-friendly lawn treatment or fertilizers. If your cat is outside most
of the time, she could ingest toxic, pesticide-tainted grass - another good
reason to keep your cat indoors
http://www.care2.com/greenliving/bringing-an-outdoor-cat-inside.html .

Growing your Own

If your cat seems to enjoy the taste and texture of grass, give her a small
grazing area of her own in your home. So-called feline herbs or
greens-usually wheat
http://www.care2.com/greenliving/wheat-grass-decorative-kitty-treat.html
or oat grass - come pre-packaged at pet supply stores, as seeds or in
pre-spouted form. Cats generally prefer this to regular grass and you can be
sure it hasn't been treated. Fresh catnip is also easy to grow, and
obviously gets cats' approval and attention. Set Kitty's private planter in
a favorite spot that's easily accessible. You'll know she's enjoying fresh,
safe greens. You'll also know when she's consumed them, thanks to the sound
of feline retching that follows.

 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread Lorrie
On 07-08, MaiMaiPG wrote:
 There is 124 acres to put it on.  Poop gets pitched into unused  
 fields--far from the house.  I can't see a difference between theirs  
 and that of the numerous cats who stray this way/deer/buzzards/turkey  
 etc. The pee turns the pellets into sawdust.  It may sound gross but  
 it really isn't

Absolutely no worse than the poop from all the other woodland 
animals.  It's all organic and biodegradable.



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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter dangers

2011-07-09 Thread Lorrie
I've often wondered and worried about this chemical stuff in
the clumping litter.  A friend of mine uses ground chicken corn.
Have any of you tried this?  She says it's not only safer but 
much less expensive.   

Lorrie

 Kitty Litter with a Serious Warning 
 
 Vets have been reporting more and more kitty illnesses related to litter.
 Certain litters are actually causing serious problems for our feline friends
 including asthma, bronchitis, intestinal blockage and possibly even lung
 cancer.
 
 Most litters are loaded with chemicals to reduce odor and help with
 absorption. These chemicals are released into the air when your cat digs in
 the litter box. The dust from the litter gets into the cat's lungs and can
 wreak havoc on its immune system, putting his or her health in jeopardy.
 With every visit to the litter box, your cat may be polluting its lungs.
 Damage can occur in just a short period of time. 
 
 Clumping clay litter, which forms a hard ball when it gets wet, is one of
 the most harmful types on the market. Several brands use this clay to make
 their litter easier to scoop. What makes it clump? It's a natural clay
 ingredient called sodium bentonite. In this case, natural is not always
 safe. Here's the problem: When this clay gets wet it expands and forms a
 hard mass. So when your cat or kitten digs in the litter box it's stirring
 up clay dust and breathing it in. Once it gets into their lungs, it expands
 from the moisture, and in time builds up, causing all sorts of lung problems
 like the ones mentioned above. 
 
 Some clumping litters actually post a warning right on the bag; Do Not Let
 Cat Ingest Litter. It is ridiculous to think that you can stop your cat
 from breathing while visiting the litter box .You cannot stop your cat from
 grooming itself with its tongue or stop your new kitten from swatting and
 nibbling on the litter. Anything their tongue contacts gets ingested. Once
 the clay litter is inside the cat or kitten and expands, it not only could
 cause dehydration by absorbing all the body's moisture, it could also form a
 hard mass in the intestines over a period of time, which could be fatal. 
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread Lorrie
I used it a few years ago.  My cats liked the Feline Pine that was 
shredded up and scoopable, but they refused to use the pellets.

The Wheat litter is good but too expensive when you have as many 
cats as I have.   Fortunately my cats only use their litter boxes
at night when they are inside, or during the winter. Otherwise they
prefer going outside to do their biz.  We have a couple of acres of
woods around our house and no traffic so it's safe for them.


Lorrie

On 07-08, Katy Doyle wrote:
 Well, this has inspired me to check out Feline Pine - has anyone used it
 before?
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter

2011-07-09 Thread Lorrie
That's the best compliment ever.  A friend recently came in
my house and said she couldn't even tell I had cats, and I have
15, so I must be scooping the litter boxes often enough.

On 07-08, Maureen Olvey wrote:
 
 If your friends come to your house and leave rather quickly then it
 might smell.  But if they stay and visit for a while then you're
 probably good ;-) Especially if you have friends that don't have
 pets, they can't tolerate the smell for long.
  

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Re: [Felvtalk] Pungent Odor

2011-07-09 Thread Lorrie
On 07-08, Natalie wrote:
 We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of her
 poop: It could raise the dead!  It is so potent, that I wait at night until
 she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
 International smelliest poop contest!

I've got one who could run her a close second.  Her poop is
so bad she clears the house when she does it.


 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter dangers

2011-07-09 Thread Natalie
Sodium bentonite is a real danger - the other stuff, not so much, may just
be irritating and dusty.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 9:16 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter dangers

I've often wondered and worried about this chemical stuff in
the clumping litter.  A friend of mine uses ground chicken corn.
Have any of you tried this?  She says it's not only safer but 
much less expensive.   

Lorrie

 Kitty Litter with a Serious Warning 
 
 Vets have been reporting more and more kitty illnesses related to litter.
 Certain litters are actually causing serious problems for our feline
friends
 including asthma, bronchitis, intestinal blockage and possibly even lung
 cancer.
 
 Most litters are loaded with chemicals to reduce odor and help with
 absorption. These chemicals are released into the air when your cat digs
in
 the litter box. The dust from the litter gets into the cat's lungs and can
 wreak havoc on its immune system, putting his or her health in jeopardy.
 With every visit to the litter box, your cat may be polluting its lungs.
 Damage can occur in just a short period of time. 
 
 Clumping clay litter, which forms a hard ball when it gets wet, is one of
 the most harmful types on the market. Several brands use this clay to make
 their litter easier to scoop. What makes it clump? It's a natural clay
 ingredient called sodium bentonite. In this case, natural is not always
 safe. Here's the problem: When this clay gets wet it expands and forms a
 hard mass. So when your cat or kitten digs in the litter box it's stirring
 up clay dust and breathing it in. Once it gets into their lungs, it
expands
 from the moisture, and in time builds up, causing all sorts of lung
problems
 like the ones mentioned above. 
 
 Some clumping litters actually post a warning right on the bag; Do Not
Let
 Cat Ingest Litter. It is ridiculous to think that you can stop your cat
 from breathing while visiting the litter box .You cannot stop your cat
from
 grooming itself with its tongue or stop your new kitten from swatting and
 nibbling on the litter. Anything their tongue contacts gets ingested. Once
 the clay litter is inside the cat or kitten and expands, it not only could
 cause dehydration by absorbing all the body's moisture, it could also form
a
 hard mass in the intestines over a period of time, which could be fatal. 
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter

2011-07-09 Thread Lynda Wilson

Yes it is the best compliment, Maureen rocks!

Wow! You are diligent keeping those litter boxes cleaned out. I bet your 
kitties love you more for that! Lorrie, what a caring and loving person you 
are to have 15 cats! I would have that many if I did not have a husband, 
lol! (Note: my husband has told me several times through the years that if 
there is such a thing as reincarnation, then he wants to come back as one of 
my cats!). I bet ppl say the same to you :)
- Original Message - 
From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter



That's the best compliment ever.  A friend recently came in
my house and said she couldn't even tell I had cats, and I have
15, so I must be scooping the litter boxes often enough.

On 07-08, Maureen Olvey wrote:


If your friends come to your house and leave rather quickly then it
might smell.  But if they stay and visit for a while then you're
probably good ;-) Especially if you have friends that don't have
pets, they can't tolerate the smell for long.



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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread molveywda
That's just not right to mention ice cream and cat poop in the same sentence!

I was kind of hoping it was the FIV but if not I need to look into it.  Thanks 
for mentioning the probiotics.  Maybe I'll try it.

sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC

- Reply message -
From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
Date: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 9:34 am
Subject: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

The smelly poop cat (Ophelia) is very healthy for her age - not even any
renal problems; she just doesn't assimilate the food properly - eats and
poopsshe is NOT FIV/FeLV+
Oh, YES, I DO wake up to Ophelia's aroma - and her litter box is in a
bathroom far awaypast our bathroom, a hallway.
None of our 5 FIV cats has runny poop.  I do sprinkle some
acidophilus/probiotic into their food for better digestion...however, it's
NOT working with Ophelia's - hers is sort-of Carvel ice cream consistency!

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =


I doubt she could compete with my FIV + cat.  It has actually woken me up in
the middle of the night.  It's really bad because he doesn't cover so as
soon as I get the first whiff of it I drop everything and go running to find
which litterbox he used and cover it immediately.  Even if I'm eating I put
everything down and go take care of it.  It's not like I could eat anymore
anyway!  Yuck.  Lots of times in the middle of winter I have my patio door
wide open to get the smell out.
 
He's always had runny poop too.  Think it's cause of the FIV?  I heard that
it can have that effect on them.  But then I wondered if it's something
else.  Do any of you guys have FIV + cats that almost always have runny
poops?


I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain
 

 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:36:48 -0400
 From: at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of
her
 poop: It could raise the dead! It is so potent, that I wait at night until
 she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
 International smelliest poop contest!
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:30 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
 Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly
 poop! His name is Sugar after all.
 
 Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez,
 couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my
 first cat about 6 or 7 years ago.
 
 It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the different
 kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets so
 confusing though.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Fw: Pebbles - dlgegg

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
I commend you for sticking with your baby.  I am sure she repaid you with 
bushels of love and great memories.  Unless you can't afford to feed your own 
family, never give up on an animal because of money.  If you can't afford to 
keep the, find someone who can and will
 Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: 
 
 
 I do realize that, otherwise why would I go to all the trouble? It's sad to 
 have ppl put down animals b/c they don't want to go to the trouble. I had 
 the vet ask me if I wanted to put Pebbles down when they discovered she was 
 a diabetic. I shivered at the thought. But I will still say she was a lot 
 of work. I had to leave Thanksgiving dinners, Christmas gatherings, etc 
 when it was time for her insulin. I had to give it to her 2 x's a 
 dayand I spent thousands on her. She also had 5 other diseases by the 
 time she passed. But I would do it all over again. I remember the day I 
 brought her home at 5 weeks, yes 5 weeks. There were kids in Austin, TX 
 giving away these kittens. She was the most pitiful looking one, but I knew 
 she needed me.
  - Original Message - 
  From: dlg...@windstream.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Cc: Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net
  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 9:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] UTI Question
 
 
  iT ISN' THE WORK INVOLVED IN CARING FOR THEM, IT IS WHAT YOU GET BACK 
  FROM THEM IN RETURN THAT COUNTS!
  A friend of mine had to follow her little dog around the yard with a 
  shallow dish to catch the urine for the vet.  She said she hoped that the 
  neighbors never saw her, or they would have thought she was crazy.  Folks 
  around here just do not think you need to go to all that trouble for cats 
  and dogs, ESPECIALLY CATS.  They think I am crazy because I take my pride 
  to the vet for shots, etc.  The only thing they are good for is out in 
  the barn to catch mice.  I have earned the name Crazy Cat Lady
   Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote:
  What a great invention of a litter box! I might have purchased it when I 
  had
  my diabetic cat. She passed away 2 yrs ago.  She made it easy for me to
  catch her urine mid-stream. She would squat close to the litter but not 
  sit
  on it, with her rear end towards me and I could catch it in a small,
  sterilized bottle cap. Then I could get her keytone level by dipping the
  strip into her urine. I had to prick her ear to get her blood to get her
  glucose. I did this for 9 yrs (she lived to be 17 1/2 yrs).  I still 
  miss
  her even though she was a lot of work.
 
  RIP, Pebbles!
 
  Sorry, I got carried away...
 
  L
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: dlg...@windstream.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] UTI Question
 
 
   My Boby was urinating out of the box, all over the house.  He had a
   problem with salcite and sturivite stones.  Then Casey had stones. 
   She
   got over them, but Bobby did not.  Being a male, the urether was more
   narrow and he did not make it tru the treatment time.  Homey is doing 
   gret
   now.  I would check hm out with the vet and take a fresh urine sample 
   for
   testing.  I found a special litter box that uses safflower seed 
   instead of
   litter.  It allows the urine to go thru to a collection box that has a
   pour spout so you can pur it into a pill bottle and take it to the 
   vet.
   It was pricey ($60.00) but really comes in handy when you suspect a
   urinary tract infection or stones.  Also great for diabetic cats -
   invented by a lady with a diabetic cat.  Only thing is they have to be
   seperated from the others so there is no chance of others using the 
   box.
    Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:
   Forgot this part of the question before:  Sometimes, cats don't like 
   the
   type of litter, too!  I have a friend who uses shredded newspaper for
   cats
   that don't like any kind of litter!
   BTW - OxiClean and X-O are GREAT to clean urine stain and odor!!
   When  I scoop the litter, I remove solids, and also wet litter, by 
   gently
   holding litter box up...then I sprinkle baking soda on the wet area, 
   and
   then some more mixed into the litter - keeps the litter clean for a 
   long
   time and doesn't stink.  I do NOT use clumping litter; regular litter 
   may
   not clump into a hard ball, but it can easily be removed!
   -Original Message-
   From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
   [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
   Wilson
   Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:08 AM
   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] UTI Question
  
   My first thought was, how many litter boxes does he have access to? 
   When
   I
   had one cat, he urinated on my bed too (thank goodness I buy the
   waterproof
   mattress pad) and that was his way of telling me he wanted another. 
   This
   is
   what my vet advised me. He got another box and 

Re: [Felvtalk] UTI Question

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
Another way to identfy urine tract problem is to observe the size of clumps in 
the ltter box.  If you find very small ones, isolate the cats 1 by 1 and check 
the clumps in the box.  Then you gather a sample and go to the vet.  That is 
how i found out about Bobby and Homey
 Caspercat casper...@gmail.com wrote: 
 Not sure if this is possible but they probably got a bad batch of Frontline
 - I've used it in the Northeast with zero proplems (and like it because it
 addresses fleas  ticks).  My vet also started using a product called
 v-somthing but it doesn't help with ticks.  If you know for sure you only
 have a flea problem (no ticks) then advantage is a good product (and will
 get rid of ear mites and worms as well).  Just spoke to a lady yesterday who
 does rescue.  She orders advantage from Canada via the mail as it is much
 cheaper that way.
 
 About the stones - does the cat appear to be straining when peeing or appear
 constipated?  That would be indicative of stones.   Also if the cat is prone
 to stones he may have developed an aversion to using the litter box
 and choose other objects to pee on instead or he may have developed an
 aversion to using the litter box for another reason.  So changing the type
 of litter you use may help.  Having said all that we had a cat that prone to
 UTIs and they way she would let us know she had one is by peeing on our bed
 (hooray for waterproof matress covers).
 
 Is there anyway you can call and ask your vet at home what they use to
 diagnose kidney stones?
 
 In googling feline kidney stones it appears that x-trays or ultrasounds are
 used for diagnosis.  Found x-rays mentioned on a couple of sites (but note
 that the information below is from a site I just found by googling so not
 sure how good it is  http://www.cat-health-guide.org/felinekidneystones.html).
 My guess is that if the vet finds no stones via x-ray the next step they
 will suggest an ultrasound (which of course is even more expensive).
 
 If cat kidney stones are suspected, your vet will take x-rays. The stones
 will usually show up white on the x-ray. Some kinds of stones don’t show up
 on x-rays and can only be seen by ultrasound. Your vet will look for stones
 elsewhere in the urinary tract as well.
 
 Your vet will also test your cat’s urine to see if she has a bladder
 infection. Bladder infections are very common in pets with kidney stones. 
 
 
 On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Cindy McHugh ci...@furangels.org wrote:
 
  This is a little off topic, but please forgive me. My email is acting up
  and I've been unsubbed from my more general cat discussion list.
 
  I'm fostering a neutered male cat that is urinating outside of the
  litterbox. This was one of the reasons he was relinquished several months
  ago - and one of the reasons his former owner kept him in a basement for 3
  years. He seemed to be doing well here and was overcoming some of his other
  issues (aggression and obsessive licking/chewing), but he urinated on my bed
  about 2 months ago and then on an upholstered chair. I was fostering 2 dogs
  at the time and attributed it to stress over the dogs. They were adopted and
  all was well until a couple days ago.
 
  He's urinated on a chair and on the bare floor 3 times in the past 2 days.
  There's large amounts of urnie, no trace of blood, and he does also use his
  litterbox. I don't think he has a UTI based on his past behavior, but I
  thought I'd run him to the vet to be sure. I'm not at home, so I used a
  clinic that is relatively new to me and I was surprised by what I was told,
  so I thought I'd run it by you folks...
 
  In the past, when I've suspected a UTI in a dog or cat, I simply took a
  urine sample (dog) or took the cat and they obtained one, checked it, and
  gave me an answer and antibiotic if needed.
 
  The vet today told me they could do an in house check, but it wouldn't
  really give us much information and I advised I send it away for a culture.
  She also suggested they x-ray his abdomen to check for stones. This is not
  my cat, but it is in the care of a rescue I co-founded. We want to do what's
  necessary to help the cat, but we don't have extra funds for
  tests/procedures that are not necessary.
 
  If I had seen my regular vet (at home) and she suggested these procedures,
  I wouldn't hesitate, but I get the feeling this vet is more interested in
  money. The other reason I say this is because we just spent more than $100
  on flea products recommended by another vet in this office. When I mentioned
  today that the Frontline doesn't seem to be helping the flea situation, the
  vet and tech both said they've had many, many complaints about Frontline
  this summer and agreed that it's ineffective (in this area, anyway). The vet
  said the fleas laugh at Frontline. They suggested I purchase another flea
  product (V-something, I didn't catch the name). They said it's the same
  price, but much more effective. This is the same place 

Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
Guess I have a stronger stomach, but then I was the one who could go from 
disecting a frog into the cafeteria and eat lunch.  


 molvey...@hotmail.com molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: 
 That's just not right to mention ice cream and cat poop in the same sentence!
 
 I was kind of hoping it was the FIV but if not I need to look into it.  
 Thanks for mentioning the probiotics.  Maybe I'll try it.
 
 sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC
 
 - Reply message -
 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
 Date: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 9:34 am
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 
 The smelly poop cat (Ophelia) is very healthy for her age - not even any
 renal problems; she just doesn't assimilate the food properly - eats and
 poopsshe is NOT FIV/FeLV+
 Oh, YES, I DO wake up to Ophelia's aroma - and her litter box is in a
 bathroom far awaypast our bathroom, a hallway.
 None of our 5 FIV cats has runny poop.  I do sprinkle some
 acidophilus/probiotic into their food for better digestion...however, it's
 NOT working with Ophelia's - hers is sort-of Carvel ice cream consistency!
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:46 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
 I doubt she could compete with my FIV + cat.  It has actually woken me up in
 the middle of the night.  It's really bad because he doesn't cover so as
 soon as I get the first whiff of it I drop everything and go running to find
 which litterbox he used and cover it immediately.  Even if I'm eating I put
 everything down and go take care of it.  It's not like I could eat anymore
 anyway!  Yuck.  Lots of times in the middle of winter I have my patio door
 wide open to get the smell out.
  
 He's always had runny poop too.  Think it's cause of the FIV?  I heard that
 it can have that effect on them.  But then I wondered if it's something
 else.  Do any of you guys have FIV + cats that almost always have runny
 poops?
 
 
 I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
 profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
 unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
 sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
 Twain
  
 
  Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:36:48 -0400
  From: at...@optonline.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
  
  We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of
 her
  poop: It could raise the dead! It is so potent, that I wait at night until
  she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
  International smelliest poop contest!
  
  -Original Message-
  From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
  [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:30 PM
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
  
  
  Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly
  poop! His name is Sugar after all.
  
  Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez,
  couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my
  first cat about 6 or 7 years ago.
  
  It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the different
  kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets so
  confusing though.
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
A lot of people tell me that.  Does that say something about the way they are 
being treated ?  
If you are going to have cats and litter boxes and a family, then you have to 
keep them scooped.  Just one of the prices we pay for cats.


 Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: 
 Yes it is the best compliment, Maureen rocks!
 
 Wow! You are diligent keeping those litter boxes cleaned out. I bet your 
 kitties love you more for that! Lorrie, what a caring and loving person you 
 are to have 15 cats! I would have that many if I did not have a husband, 
 lol! (Note: my husband has told me several times through the years that if 
 there is such a thing as reincarnation, then he wants to come back as one of 
 my cats!). I bet ppl say the same to you :)
 - Original Message - 
 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 10:10 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter
 
 
  That's the best compliment ever.  A friend recently came in
  my house and said she couldn't even tell I had cats, and I have
  15, so I must be scooping the litter boxes often enough.
 
  On 07-08, Maureen Olvey wrote:
 
  If your friends come to your house and leave rather quickly then it
  might smell.  But if they stay and visit for a while then you're
  probably good ;-) Especially if you have friends that don't have
  pets, they can't tolerate the smell for long.
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Pungent Odor

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
ONe thing you never want to feed them is Mackeral.  It makes for a real stinky 
poop and gas.

 Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: 
 On 07-08, Natalie wrote:
  We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of her
  poop: It could raise the dead!  It is so potent, that I wait at night until
  she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
  International smelliest poop contest!
 
 I've got one who could run her a close second.  Her poop is
 so bad she clears the house when she does it.
 
 
  
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
Mine prefer outside unless it is bad weather or very hot.  They go to the woods 
for a couple of mice, voles, moles or shrews, do their business and come back 
to the deck where their water bowl is, find a comfortable spot and take a nap.


 Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: 
 I used it a few years ago.  My cats liked the Feline Pine that was 
 shredded up and scoopable, but they refused to use the pellets.
 
 The Wheat litter is good but too expensive when you have as many 
 cats as I have.   Fortunately my cats only use their litter boxes
 at night when they are inside, or during the winter. Otherwise they
 prefer going outside to do their biz.  We have a couple of acres of
 woods around our house and no traffic so it's safe for them.
 
 
 Lorrie
 
 On 07-08, Katy Doyle wrote:
  Well, this has inspired me to check out Feline Pine - has anyone used it
  before?
  
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Why do cats eat grass?

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
On the lighter side, I have seen them eat grasshppers and crickets.  That I 
don't see much reason for.  They get their protein from their food and it 
doesn't have scratchy legs to deal with.


 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: 
   
 
 Why Do Cats Eat Grass? 
 
 
 By Kathy Blumenstock, Animal Planet
 
 How often have you seen your cat happily chewing on blades of fresh green
 grass, and wondered why? You dish up the choicest cat food and offer gourmet
 treats, yet given the chance, Kitty chows down on the lawn as if she's a
 snacking racehorse. But there's little need to fret over the appeal of the
 feline salad bar, even when she throws it all up.
 
 Grazing in the Grass
 
 The juices in grass contain folic acid, a vitamin essential to a cat's
 well-being. Folic acid, also present in the mother cat's milk, aids the
 production of oxygen in the cat's bloodstream. A folic acid deficiency may
 lead to anemia, and a young cat's growth can be stunted if she doesn't get
 enough of it. Do cats instinctively know they're deficient in folic acid and
 nibble grass to right the situation? Even experts can only guess. For a cat
 who never goes outdoors, folic acid supplements are available, to be added
 to your cat's food. Your vet can advise whether your cat can benefit from
 these.
 
 That Laxative Appeal
 
 Since cats themselves can't say, experts theorize that cats eat grass as a
 natural laxative. It may add fiber and bulk to their diet, helping them pass
 worms or fur through their intestinal tract. If broader-leafed varieties
 offer a laxative effect, thinner-leafed grass induces cats to vomit. But
 veterinarians stop short of declaring grass necessary. It may assist in
 clearing things out, but healthy cats are able to process and pass matter
 out without this help. Some experts believe cats eat grass to settle their
 stomachs, much as humans pop an antacid tablet. Others say cats simply like
 the texture and taste of grass, no matter what its properties do for their
 insides.
 
 Heave-Ho
 
 After munching away on grass, a short time later, cats inevitably upchuck
 those greens. Not because they're gagging on the veggie flavor. It's because
 cats' systems do not have the correct enzymes to digest plant matter. By
 regurgitating grass, the cat also expels other indigestible items she may
 have eaten - which could include fur balls from grooming, or feathers and
 bones from any prey she has consumed. Clearing her digestive tract this way
 is healthy for the cat. It alleviates any feeling of discomfort, even if the
 process, and its end-products, may repulse her owner. So don't punish your
 cat for upchucking!
 
 Healthy Habit or Dangerous Delicacy?
 
 While eating grass may seem unappealing to you, many cats love it and it's
 not generally harmful to them. They rarely eat more than occasional small
 amounts, but if yours eats it daily or in large amounts, that could indicate
 intestinal distress that should be addressed by your vet. If your cat is an
 indoor-outdoor pet, supervise her grazing when you take her outside. Keep
 her away from grass or plants that have been chemically treated and always
 use pet-friendly lawn treatment or fertilizers. If your cat is outside most
 of the time, she could ingest toxic, pesticide-tainted grass - another good
 reason to keep your cat indoors
 http://www.care2.com/greenliving/bringing-an-outdoor-cat-inside.html .
 
 Growing your Own
 
 If your cat seems to enjoy the taste and texture of grass, give her a small
 grazing area of her own in your home. So-called feline herbs or
 greens-usually wheat
 http://www.care2.com/greenliving/wheat-grass-decorative-kitty-treat.html
 or oat grass - come pre-packaged at pet supply stores, as seeds or in
 pre-spouted form. Cats generally prefer this to regular grass and you can be
 sure it hasn't been treated. Fresh catnip is also easy to grow, and
 obviously gets cats' approval and attention. Set Kitty's private planter in
 a favorite spot that's easily accessible. You'll know she's enjoying fresh,
 safe greens. You'll also know when she's consumed them, thanks to the sound
 of feline retching that follows.
 
  
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
Just like humans, one man's trash is another man's treasure.

 Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: 
 You're right, but my cat loved it.
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 10:42 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
  Yes, I have tried it - it costs a lot more than just good old plain
  probiotics/acidophilus and cats immediately detect it in the food - won't
  touch it! I think it's just one more way for the company and vets to make
  money on a product specifically for cats.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
  [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson
  Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 11:14 AM
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
  Have you tried Fortiflora?
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
  The smelly poop cat (Ophelia) is very healthy for her age - not even any
  renal problems; she just doesn't assimilate the food properly - eats and
  poopsshe is NOT FIV/FeLV+
  Oh, YES, I DO wake up to Ophelia's aroma - and her litter box is in a
  bathroom far awaypast our bathroom, a hallway.
  None of our 5 FIV cats has runny poop.  I do sprinkle some
  acidophilus/probiotic into their food for better digestion...however, 
  it's
  NOT working with Ophelia's - hers is sort-of Carvel ice cream 
  consistency!
 
  -Original Message-
  From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
  [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:46 PM
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
  I doubt she could compete with my FIV + cat.  It has actually woken me up
  in
  the middle of the night.  It's really bad because he doesn't cover so as
  soon as I get the first whiff of it I drop everything and go running to
  find
  which litterbox he used and cover it immediately.  Even if I'm eating I
  put
  everything down and go take care of it.  It's not like I could eat 
  anymore
  anyway!  Yuck.  Lots of times in the middle of winter I have my patio 
  door
  wide open to get the smell out.
 
  He's always had runny poop too.  Think it's cause of the FIV?  I heard
  that
  it can have that effect on them.  But then I wondered if it's something
  else.  Do any of you guys have FIV + cats that almost always have runny
  poops?
 
 
  I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that 
  are
  profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
  unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
  sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
  Twain
 
 
  Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:36:48 -0400
  From: at...@optonline.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
  We have an almost 19 yr old cat - I swear, I should market the smell of
  her
  poop: It could raise the dead! It is so potent, that I wait at night
  until
  she makes one or two before I go to bed.I bet she could win the
  International smelliest poop contest!
 
  -Original Message-
  From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
  [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:30 PM
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
 
 
  Maybe your cat's poop doesn't stink! Maybe he's too good to have smelly
  poop! His name is Sugar after all.
 
  Just kidding. I can't imagine any cat not having smelly poop. Geez,
  couldn't believe the difference between my cat and my dog when I got my
  first cat about 6 or 7 years ago.
 
  It's funny how there are so many different experiences with the 
  different
  kinds of litter. I guess that's why there are so many choices. It gets 
  so
  confusing though.
 
 
  I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that
  are
  profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
  unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to 
  me
  sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
  Twain
 
 
   From: longhornf...@verizon.net
   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
   Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:15:07 -0500
   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter =
  
   I've never heard of that problem, but then I don't keep the litter
   boxes
  in
   a closed area like you would an adoption center. It's fine to use at
  home
  in
   an open area. I have 3 litter boxes with Feline Pine (non-pellet form)
  in
   our master bathroom. It actually controls the odors. I like it as well
  as
   the cats.
  
  
   - Original Message - 
   From: Edna 

Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
All of these egulations, etc. are making someone money somewere.  It is 
protecting th US coporations who would loose mooney for one and I am sure 
someone else is lning his/her pockets.  Just as with human meds.  And then, 
after all that research even tho it is harmful to the consumer, the FDA takes 
the word of the manufacturer and alows distribution.  Otherwise, why are we 
having so many recalls of drugs found to cause suffering and death.  When I 
check into Meds that my dr has prescribed for me, I often find they can cause 
cancer specifically Lymphoma which I recently had and after years of chemo 
which failed I went into spontaneous remision.  Why would I want to take them 
and have to deal with all that again?  My oncologist has said that if it came 
back (been 7 years) she would be willing to monitor my blood  and assist me in 
a course of healthy eating, vitamins and minerals.  I refuse to go thru chemo 
again.  You may as well be dead.
 Ben Williams drsiebl...@gmail.com wrote: 
 http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/
 
 You know, I've thought a lot about things that could make a difference and
 the most important thing that could change right now is the lack of
 availability of Virbagen Interferon Omega in the United States.  Why in the
 world does it make any sense for the FDA to require millions of dollars
 worth of peer reviewed studies to be undertaken for US approval on a drug
 that has been effectively saving cat's lives for almost a decade everywhere
 else in the world and has been used in hundreds of foreign studies.
 Interferon Omega would have probably saved Dexter's life, plain and simple.
 However, I can't get a drug for him (that has absolutely no abuse potential
 in humans, by the way) unless I go through a 2 month process with the DEA
 and FDA that will only result in a guarantee that any overnight package from
 Europe that contains the medication that I've been given permission to
 import, will be seized and held for months, only to lose its refrigeration
 and spoil.  This is, of course, after I've spent about $1200 for the honor.
 
 
 So, I suggest that we all start calling and writing our congress-people and
 senators and demanding an immediate provisional approval be given for
 Virbagen Interferon Omega to be sold in the US.  Heck, it's practically a
 cure for FiP as well!
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Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
The fluids escaping is a normal thing.  This happened wen my father passed and 
he was not moved.  This is a part of life and I would not miss being there for 
hiim just because it made it hard for me.  Our thoughts must be with our loved 
ones, not ourselves, no matter how hard it is.  Knowing that they did not 
suffer alone, that they knew someone cared and loved them is more important to 
me.  It is important to me that their last memories are that someone loved them 
enough.
 Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com wrote: 
 Natalie, I have never had this experience either when one of my furbabies
 has passed -- but I haven't picked them up or moved them around, perhaps
 this is just a gravity issue. I work for the county Medical Examiner, and I
 can attest that more often than not, there is some sort of fluid that
 escapes when a person dies. Could be mucus, urine, whatever might seek its
 own level when all the muscles relax. In Dexter's case, I'm guessing it was
 fluid that was building up somewhere, but that doesn't necessarily mean it
 was making him suffer. I'm sorry that was the last thing you saw happen with
 him and it bothered you, but please don't let it make you feel guilty. It's
 natural.
 
 Diane R.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Natalie
 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 5:47 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter
 
 I know that when an animal or human being dies, this is supposed to happen -
 but in all the years and all the euthanasia I had to have administered,
 always holding the animals (cats and dogs), and then staying with them for
 about 15 minutes (our vet allows everyone to be alone with them) - it has
 NEVER happened, yet! I wonder if that's unusual? Natalie
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG
 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 6:05 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter
 
 It is natural for a body to release fluids and solids as the soul leaves it.
 This is true with animals and with people.  It is not a sign of pain.  It is
 a sign of muscle relaxation.  This is one reason a vet may wrap a body in
 plastic.  I never, ever, never have or will leave a friend to leave this
 world without me holding him/her and this happens.  It also happens in
 natural deaths.  Don't ask about releases when a person commits suicide or
 even is murdered.  It can be awful if a family member discovers the body.
 This, again, is not a sign of pain.
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 4:25 PM, Ben Williams wrote:
 
  Thanks so much, everyone.  It's been a really hard day for us and I'm
  haunted by seeing Dexter this morning struggling so hard to live.   
  You've
  all been so wonderful and your kind comments have really helped today 
  - if anything, we are realizing even more now just how much we love 
  that little boy.  He was so special to us.
 
   If I may, I have a question regarding Euthanasia for those of you who 
  have been through this before - for those of you who are squeamish, 
  please just skip this one:
 
  Dexter passed peacefully when Dr. Cantrell administered the euthanasia 
  this morning.  He let out a small sigh when the initial sedative was 
  injected and silently slipped away when the final injection was made.  
  A few minutes later, as we were still petting him, a fair amount of 
  yellow, clear liquid came out of his mouth and nose.  I assume this 
  was fluid that had started to
  collect in his lungs, perhaps part of the jaundice from his liver?   
  I don't
  know - I just can't stand the idea that he was in severe pain for a 
  while there and that, perhaps, we put him through it.  He had a chest 
  X- ray on
  sunday night and no fluid was visible.  Or, maybe it was missed.   
  Sorry for
  the awkward question.
 
  On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Lynda Wilson 
  longhornf...@verizon.net
  wrote:
 
  My heart is breaking after reading your story!  I'm truly sorry 
  Dexter is gone, but he will live within your heart now.
 
  You did so much for him and he fought the battle as much as he could.
 
  My thoughts are with you at this difficult time.
 
  Lynda
  - Original Message - From: Ben Williams 
  drsiebl...@gmail.com
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 9:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter
 
 
  I'd like to start off this message by thanking all of you for your 
  kind
  words regarding Dexter over the past few days - - my wife and I have 
  shared and appreciated every one of the emails - it's meant a lot to 
  us.
  Unfortunately, this morning has proven to be heartbreaking to us 
  both - we received a call first thing this morning from East Dallas 
  Animal Clinic's Dr. Ken Cantrell that Dexter's condition had 
  worsened over the course of the night.  After 

Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now

2011-07-09 Thread Natalie
And then there is the herbal tonic made from Chaparral, Neem, Androgravis,
and Graviola, that you can make yourself and take every day - it is used to
cure cancers or keep cancer under control or not getting cancer for people
and animals.
Why not start with healthy eating, minerals and vitamins right now, instead
of waiting for cancer to return?

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 3:45 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now

All of these egulations, etc. are making someone money somewere.  It is
protecting th US coporations who would loose mooney for one and I am sure
someone else is lning his/her pockets.  Just as with human meds.  And then,
after all that research even tho it is harmful to the consumer, the FDA
takes the word of the manufacturer and alows distribution.  Otherwise, why
are we having so many recalls of drugs found to cause suffering and death.
When I check into Meds that my dr has prescribed for me, I often find they
can cause cancer specifically Lymphoma which I recently had and after years
of chemo which failed I went into spontaneous remision.  Why would I want to
take them and have to deal with all that again?  My oncologist has said that
if it came back (been 7 years) she would be willing to monitor my blood  and
assist me in a course of healthy eating, vitamins and minerals.  I refuse to
go thru chemo again.  You may as well be dead.
 Ben Williams drsiebl...@gmail.com wrote: 
 http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/
 
 You know, I've thought a lot about things that could make a difference and
 the most important thing that could change right now is the lack of
 availability of Virbagen Interferon Omega in the United States.  Why in
the
 world does it make any sense for the FDA to require millions of dollars
 worth of peer reviewed studies to be undertaken for US approval on a drug
 that has been effectively saving cat's lives for almost a decade
everywhere
 else in the world and has been used in hundreds of foreign studies.
 Interferon Omega would have probably saved Dexter's life, plain and
simple.
 However, I can't get a drug for him (that has absolutely no abuse
potential
 in humans, by the way) unless I go through a 2 month process with the DEA
 and FDA that will only result in a guarantee that any overnight package
from
 Europe that contains the medication that I've been given permission to
 import, will be seized and held for months, only to lose its refrigeration
 and spoil.  This is, of course, after I've spent about $1200 for the
honor.
 
 
 So, I suggest that we all start calling and writing our congress-people
and
 senators and demanding an immediate provisional approval be given for
 Virbagen Interferon Omega to be sold in the US.  Heck, it's practically a
 cure for FiP as well!
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


___
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Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
I am.  Ever once i a while I give in and eat a hotdog, then I put them in the 
freezer for 6 or 8 months and give in again.  Sort of like my White Castle 
hamburgers.  They were once called belly bombers for a reason, but they taste 
so good.  All those grilled onions which I order extra on mine.  I eat lots of 
onion and garlic and now thanks to DR. Oz, am adding lots of rosemary to my 
meals.  It aids your memory and boy do I need that!  Since I met Mary, I am 
leaning to mostly Vietnamese foods.  They are very low in fats, sugar unlike 
Chinese and Thai.  Lots of greens, very little meat, lots of rice noodles.  I 
love Thai, but it does have a lot of sugar.  
 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: 
 And then there is the herbal tonic made from Chaparral, Neem, Androgravis,
 and Graviola, that you can make yourself and take every day - it is used to
 cure cancers or keep cancer under control or not getting cancer for people
 and animals.
 Why not start with healthy eating, minerals and vitamins right now, instead
 of waiting for cancer to return?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
 dlg...@windstream.net
 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 3:45 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now
 
 All of these egulations, etc. are making someone money somewere.  It is
 protecting th US coporations who would loose mooney for one and I am sure
 someone else is lning his/her pockets.  Just as with human meds.  And then,
 after all that research even tho it is harmful to the consumer, the FDA
 takes the word of the manufacturer and alows distribution.  Otherwise, why
 are we having so many recalls of drugs found to cause suffering and death.
 When I check into Meds that my dr has prescribed for me, I often find they
 can cause cancer specifically Lymphoma which I recently had and after years
 of chemo which failed I went into spontaneous remision.  Why would I want to
 take them and have to deal with all that again?  My oncologist has said that
 if it came back (been 7 years) she would be willing to monitor my blood  and
 assist me in a course of healthy eating, vitamins and minerals.  I refuse to
 go thru chemo again.  You may as well be dead.
  Ben Williams drsiebl...@gmail.com wrote: 
  http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/
  
  You know, I've thought a lot about things that could make a difference and
  the most important thing that could change right now is the lack of
  availability of Virbagen Interferon Omega in the United States.  Why in
 the
  world does it make any sense for the FDA to require millions of dollars
  worth of peer reviewed studies to be undertaken for US approval on a drug
  that has been effectively saving cat's lives for almost a decade
 everywhere
  else in the world and has been used in hundreds of foreign studies.
  Interferon Omega would have probably saved Dexter's life, plain and
 simple.
  However, I can't get a drug for him (that has absolutely no abuse
 potential
  in humans, by the way) unless I go through a 2 month process with the DEA
  and FDA that will only result in a guarantee that any overnight package
 from
  Europe that contains the medication that I've been given permission to
  import, will be seized and held for months, only to lose its refrigeration
  and spoil.  This is, of course, after I've spent about $1200 for the
 honor.
  
  
  So, I suggest that we all start calling and writing our congress-people
 and
  senators and demanding an immediate provisional approval be given for
  Virbagen Interferon Omega to be sold in the US.  Heck, it's practically a
  cure for FiP as well!
  ___
  Felvtalk mailing list
  Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 
 
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
Don't ever make a tea of Chaparral, it is so bad tasting.  Tried it once, no 
more!  Could make a monkey climb up a tree backwards.  Androgravis is not too 
good either.  Best to disguise those 2.
 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: 
 And then there is the herbal tonic made from Chaparral, Neem, Androgravis,
 and Graviola, that you can make yourself and take every day - it is used to
 cure cancers or keep cancer under control or not getting cancer for people
 and animals.
 Why not start with healthy eating, minerals and vitamins right now, instead
 of waiting for cancer to return?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
 dlg...@windstream.net
 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 3:45 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now
 
 All of these egulations, etc. are making someone money somewere.  It is
 protecting th US coporations who would loose mooney for one and I am sure
 someone else is lning his/her pockets.  Just as with human meds.  And then,
 after all that research even tho it is harmful to the consumer, the FDA
 takes the word of the manufacturer and alows distribution.  Otherwise, why
 are we having so many recalls of drugs found to cause suffering and death.
 When I check into Meds that my dr has prescribed for me, I often find they
 can cause cancer specifically Lymphoma which I recently had and after years
 of chemo which failed I went into spontaneous remision.  Why would I want to
 take them and have to deal with all that again?  My oncologist has said that
 if it came back (been 7 years) she would be willing to monitor my blood  and
 assist me in a course of healthy eating, vitamins and minerals.  I refuse to
 go thru chemo again.  You may as well be dead.
  Ben Williams drsiebl...@gmail.com wrote: 
  http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/
  
  You know, I've thought a lot about things that could make a difference and
  the most important thing that could change right now is the lack of
  availability of Virbagen Interferon Omega in the United States.  Why in
 the
  world does it make any sense for the FDA to require millions of dollars
  worth of peer reviewed studies to be undertaken for US approval on a drug
  that has been effectively saving cat's lives for almost a decade
 everywhere
  else in the world and has been used in hundreds of foreign studies.
  Interferon Omega would have probably saved Dexter's life, plain and
 simple.
  However, I can't get a drug for him (that has absolutely no abuse
 potential
  in humans, by the way) unless I go through a 2 month process with the DEA
  and FDA that will only result in a guarantee that any overnight package
 from
  Europe that contains the medication that I've been given permission to
  import, will be seized and held for months, only to lose its refrigeration
  and spoil.  This is, of course, after I've spent about $1200 for the
 honor.
  
  
  So, I suggest that we all start calling and writing our congress-people
 and
  senators and demanding an immediate provisional approval be given for
  Virbagen Interferon Omega to be sold in the US.  Heck, it's practically a
  cure for FiP as well!
  ___
  Felvtalk mailing list
  Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 
 
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
One thing Ihave learned since being a part of this group is that they are the 
most caring, loving people I have ever known.  It seems that when someone loves 
and cares for an animal, they have a greater abundance of love for everyone, 
including people.  I am glad to have found all of you and keep you in my 
prayers always.
 Ben Williams drsiebl...@gmail.com wrote: 
 I'd like to start off this message by thanking all of you for your kind
 words regarding Dexter over the past few days - - my wife and I have shared
 and appreciated every one of the emails - it's meant a lot to us.
 Unfortunately, this morning has proven to be heartbreaking to us both - we
 received a call first thing this morning from East Dallas Animal Clinic's
 Dr. Ken Cantrell that Dexter's condition had worsened over the course of the
 night.  After picking Dex up from the Emergency clinic yesterday morning, we
 immediately took him to Dr. Wright at Lakewood Vet Center.  Dr. Wright has
 been on vacation since last week and we were told that he would be back
 yesterday morning - but he hadn't yet returned.  I took Dexter to see him on
 three occasions last week for his lymphocyte T-Cell Immunomodulator
 injections, but was only able to see him that Monday.  When we took Dex in
 on Friday when the swelling of his feet and face had begun, we were given no
 advice by his staff who were unable to do anything other than give Dex his
 shot and usher us out the door.  They are all very caring people and I don't
 blame them for anything, but I feel that any vet who runs a practice where
 he is the only doctor on staff, should do a bit more to keep his patients
 informed about his availability - that way precious minutes or hours or days
 aren't wasted waiting for him to return.  Fortunately, several weeks ago,
 when trying to convince Dr. Wright to order the LTCI treatment (which took
 him over a week to do) I was referred to the East Dallas Animal Clinic by
 the LTCI folks - they had used the medication before.   East Dallas Animal
 Clinic is a wonderful place.  We've worked with Dr. Ellsworth and Dr.
 Cantrell there - - they are both compassionate and make a point of taking
 calls from concerned pet owners.  They have both been wonderful to work with
 and have been open to taking every conceivable avenue with Dex's treatment.
 I only wish we had been seeing them from the start. We rushed Dex to them
 yesterday morning as soon as it became clear that Dr. Wright wouldn't be
 returning.  Again, I don't blame Dr. Wright, but when we took Dexter in for
 his checkup three weeks ago and Dr. Wright informed us that anemia had set
 in, his advice was to take him home and make him comfortable.  A week
 passed as I researched and tried to communicate with him about alternate
 treatments and off-label meds.  When you factor in that week and the week he
 took to order the LTCI meds, that's two out of the last three weeks where
 Dex had little treatment.  Again, why the difficulty in getting anything
 done for Dex?  East Dallas, however, fit Dex in on the first day we spoke
 with him and started him on Acemannan injections.  They had two remaining
 doses remaining of that drug; a drug that was very beneficial to Dex last
 year when he was first diagnosed.  they sacrificed those 2 doses for Dex
 without question - had I gone to them earlier, perhaps it would have had
 more effect on him. Regardless, Dex seemed to make improvements while on
 Immunoregulin, LCTI and the acemannan.  FeLV and FIV are horrible diseases,
 though, and I felt like there was something always sneaking up on Dex while
 we treated him.  We seemed to reverse the anemia, but his Lymph nodes were
 swelling.  Some days they would go down, other days, they would blow up.
 When the mystery feet and face swelling started last week, he even responded
 well with benadryl.  That thing sneaking up on Dexter?  Full blown cancer -
 it wasn't just in his lymph nodes, it was in his liver and spleen - it had
 probably made his heart swell.  His breathing was becoming more and more
 labored and we struggled with the decision of when Dexter was in too much
 pain to continue.  Yesterday, Dr. Cantrell started chemotherapy on Dex, as
 well as steroids.  He seemed to tolerate the meds well, but over the course
 of the night, he became more jaundiced and vomited, while his body
 temperature dropped to 94 degrees.  His little body had given out as this
 terrible disease had taken almost everything from him.  I say almost
 everything, because when we arrived at East Dallas Animal Clinic this
 morning, even though he was being hand fed oxygen while under a warming pad,
 little Dexter still had a playful wag of the tail when we placed our hands
 on him and told him how much we love him.  Dexter died at 8 this morning.
 We are heartbroken that our sweet boy is gone and that he was only with us
 for a year and a half.  He was such a wonderful, sweet and special kitty -
 we will miss him terribly.  He was a 

Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter

2011-07-09 Thread molveywda
A few years back I had to euthanize a kitty that had FIP.  He did have fluid in 
his lungs but it did not come out when he was euthanised so if Dexter had fluid 
come out it doesn't mean that he for sure had it in his lungs.  It's kind of 
weird how some release bodily fluids when they die and some don't.  I found a 
dead possum in the road that had poop beside him and then I had a foster kitten 
die that did pee when she left her body.  So I've seen them release fluids and 
not do it.  When my FeLV kitty died in the vet's office in March she had blood 
in her chest and couldn't breath but when she died on the table right in front 
of me she didn't release any fluids nor did blood come out of her nose or 
mouth.  Oh crap, now that I'm thinking about her I'm starting to cry again.  
Thought I was done with tears from that experience.  Man, dealing with animals 
can really hurt.



sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC

- Reply message -
From: dlgegg dlg...@windstream.net
Date: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 3:49 pm
Subject: [Felvtalk] Dexter
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com


The fluids escaping is a normal thing.  This happened wen my father passed and 
he was not moved.  This is a part of life and I would not miss being there for 
hiim just because it made it hard for me.  Our thoughts must be with our loved 
ones, not ourselves, no matter how hard it is.  Knowing that they did not 
suffer alone, that they knew someone cared and loved them is more important to 
me.  It is important to me that their last memories are that someone loved them 
enough.
 Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com wrote: 
 Natalie, I have never had this experience either when one of my furbabies
 has passed -- but I haven't picked them up or moved them around, perhaps
 this is just a gravity issue. I work for the county Medical Examiner, and I
 can attest that more often than not, there is some sort of fluid that
 escapes when a person dies. Could be mucus, urine, whatever might seek its
 own level when all the muscles relax. In Dexter's case, I'm guessing it was
 fluid that was building up somewhere, but that doesn't necessarily mean it
 was making him suffer. I'm sorry that was the last thing you saw happen with
 him and it bothered you, but please don't let it make you feel guilty. It's
 natural.
 
 Diane R.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Natalie
 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 5:47 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter
 
 I know that when an animal or human being dies, this is supposed to happen -
 but in all the years and all the euthanasia I had to have administered,
 always holding the animals (cats and dogs), and then staying with them for
 about 15 minutes (our vet allows everyone to be alone with them) - it has
 NEVER happened, yet! I wonder if that's unusual? Natalie
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG
 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 6:05 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter
 
 It is natural for a body to release fluids and solids as the soul leaves it.
 This is true with animals and with people.  It is not a sign of pain.  It is
 a sign of muscle relaxation.  This is one reason a vet may wrap a body in
 plastic.  I never, ever, never have or will leave a friend to leave this
 world without me holding him/her and this happens.  It also happens in
 natural deaths.  Don't ask about releases when a person commits suicide or
 even is murdered.  It can be awful if a family member discovers the body.
 This, again, is not a sign of pain.
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 4:25 PM, Ben Williams wrote:
 
  Thanks so much, everyone.  It's been a really hard day for us and I'm
  haunted by seeing Dexter this morning struggling so hard to live.   
  You've
  all been so wonderful and your kind comments have really helped today 
  - if anything, we are realizing even more now just how much we love 
  that little boy.  He was so special to us.
 
   If I may, I have a question regarding Euthanasia for those of you who 
  have been through this before - for those of you who are squeamish, 
  please just skip this one:
 
  Dexter passed peacefully when Dr. Cantrell administered the euthanasia 
  this morning.  He let out a small sigh when the initial sedative was 
  injected and silently slipped away when the final injection was made.  
  A few minutes later, as we were still petting him, a fair amount of 
  yellow, clear liquid came out of his mouth and nose.  I assume this 
  was fluid that had started to
  collect in his lungs, perhaps part of the jaundice from his liver?   
  I don't
  know - I just can't stand the idea that he was in severe pain for a 
  while there and that, perhaps, we put him through it.  He had a chest 
  X- ray on


Re: [Felvtalk] CAT FOOD RECALL

2011-07-09 Thread dlgegg
iS THIS GOING TO BE ANOTHER ROUND OF DOG/CAT FOOD RECALLS LIKE THE LAST ONE?  
It is getting to be as bad as human foods.  Timeto start growing our own for 
ourselves and our pets.
 Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 Salmonella
 
 dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
 
 Why are the being recalled?  cotminents or what?  I dn't use any of them, 
 just Blue Buffalo, just curious.
 
  Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: 
  
  URGENT PET FOOD RECALL- PLS CROSS POST
  
   
  http://www.walletpop.com/2011/06/28/nestle-purina-recalls-cat-food-over-sal
  monella-fears/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec3_lnk1|74045
  http://www.walletpop.com/2011/06/28/nestle-purina-recalls-cat-food-over-salm
  onella-fears/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec3_lnk1|74045
  
  Included in the recall are: 
  
  *  Cat Chow Naturals Dry Cat Food in 6.3-pound bags with a best by
  date of August 2012, a production code of 10331083 13 and a UPC number of
  17800 11320. 
  *  Friskies Grillers Blend Dry Cat Food in 3.15-pound bags with a best
  by date of August 2012, a production code of 10381083 06 and a UPC number
  of 5 08450. 
  *  Friskies Grillers Blend Dry Cat Food in 16-pound bags with a best
  by date of August 2012, a production code of 10381083 06 and a UPC number
  of 5 57578. 
  
   
  
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Re: [Felvtalk] Why do cats eat grass?

2011-07-09 Thread molveywda
My cats will eat bugs after they are done chasing and torturing them.  I 
assumed it was because their instinct tells them to devour their prey.  It's 
disgusting.  I have to turn away.

sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC

- Reply message -
From: dlgegg dlg...@windstream.net
Date: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 3:33 pm
Subject: [Felvtalk] Why do cats eat grass?
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

On the lighter side, I have seen them eat grasshppers and crickets.  That I 
don't see much reason for.  They get their protein from their food and it 
doesn't have scratchy legs to deal with.


 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: 
   
 
 Why Do Cats Eat Grass? 
 
 
 By Kathy Blumenstock, Animal Planet
 
 How often have you seen your cat happily chewing on blades of fresh green
 grass, and wondered why? You dish up the choicest cat food and offer gourmet
 treats, yet given the chance, Kitty chows down on the lawn as if she's a
 snacking racehorse. But there's little need to fret over the appeal of the
 feline salad bar, even when she throws it all up.
 
 Grazing in the Grass
 
 The juices in grass contain folic acid, a vitamin essential to a cat's
 well-being. Folic acid, also present in the mother cat's milk, aids the
 production of oxygen in the cat's bloodstream. A folic acid deficiency may
 lead to anemia, and a young cat's growth can be stunted if she doesn't get
 enough of it. Do cats instinctively know they're deficient in folic acid and
 nibble grass to right the situation? Even experts can only guess. For a cat
 who never goes outdoors, folic acid supplements are available, to be added
 to your cat's food. Your vet can advise whether your cat can benefit from
 these.
 
 That Laxative Appeal
 
 Since cats themselves can't say, experts theorize that cats eat grass as a
 natural laxative. It may add fiber and bulk to their diet, helping them pass
 worms or fur through their intestinal tract. If broader-leafed varieties
 offer a laxative effect, thinner-leafed grass induces cats to vomit. But
 veterinarians stop short of declaring grass necessary. It may assist in
 clearing things out, but healthy cats are able to process and pass matter
 out without this help. Some experts believe cats eat grass to settle their
 stomachs, much as humans pop an antacid tablet. Others say cats simply like
 the texture and taste of grass, no matter what its properties do for their
 insides.
 
 Heave-Ho
 
 After munching away on grass, a short time later, cats inevitably upchuck
 those greens. Not because they're gagging on the veggie flavor. It's because
 cats' systems do not have the correct enzymes to digest plant matter. By
 regurgitating grass, the cat also expels other indigestible items she may
 have eaten - which could include fur balls from grooming, or feathers and
 bones from any prey she has consumed. Clearing her digestive tract this way
 is healthy for the cat. It alleviates any feeling of discomfort, even if the
 process, and its end-products, may repulse her owner. So don't punish your
 cat for upchucking!
 
 Healthy Habit or Dangerous Delicacy?
 
 While eating grass may seem unappealing to you, many cats love it and it's
 not generally harmful to them. They rarely eat more than occasional small
 amounts, but if yours eats it daily or in large amounts, that could indicate
 intestinal distress that should be addressed by your vet. If your cat is an
 indoor-outdoor pet, supervise her grazing when you take her outside. Keep
 her away from grass or plants that have been chemically treated and always
 use pet-friendly lawn treatment or fertilizers. If your cat is outside most
 of the time, she could ingest toxic, pesticide-tainted grass - another good
 reason to keep your cat indoors
 http://www.care2.com/greenliving/bringing-an-outdoor-cat-inside.html .
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now

2011-07-09 Thread katskat1
Ben,

I cried when you wrote about Dexter.  He sounds like he fought til he
just got too tired and did what he could to let you know it was time
for him to move on.  It is so hard to make that choice.  Makes you
feel like you are 'playing' God sometimes but I think He knows and
gives us that 'power' to use wisely, judiciously and to help our
fur-babies when necessary. And Dexter knew, he told you, and now he's
healthy, happy and waiting for you to show up.

Anyway, you say you can get Interferon at vetcentric.com but neither
of my vets are registered with them and apparently they have to have a
vet Rx to ship anything so.

Is what you get from them the Virbagen Interferon Omega or the human
stuff?  If it is the Virbagen Interferon Omega and you have some, can
I ask what state you are in?  I am in Ohio but if you have some of the
Omega available I would like to know if you would give me your address
so I can send you $ for shipping some to me?

How long does it last?  What is the dosage?  Do you refrigerate it?
Freeze it?  Etc.  If you are willing/able to send some please respond
to me directly if possible.

katofo...@gmail.com

Thanks a zillion!  My FeLV+ kitty, Luke (I know, sick name but when
she tested positive I just started calling her my Luke Kitty and it
stuck.  What can I say?) will probably have all teeth pulled soon if I
can come up with the $.

She is having a hard time eating, seems to be losing appetite but
still purrs up a storm when scritched.  Refuses food with ANY meds;
L-Lysine, Amoxicillin, tooth meds, etc.; drinks a little kitten milk
replacement unless I try to mix any meds in it;  eats a very small
amount of canned food unless I add meds;  trying to syringe force her
gets me scratched, she spits most of it up and she and I both get VERY
stressed.  Her teeth are rotting.  She probably doesn't have long as I
can't afford much in the way of meds on unemployment but I want to
help her if I can so she has a good life as long as possible...

Bless all of you for the information, support and help you offer.
Hope to hear from you Ben.

Kat


On 7/9/11, dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
 Don't ever make a tea of Chaparral, it is so bad tasting.  Tried it once, no
 more!  Could make a monkey climb up a tree backwards.  Androgravis is not
 too good either.  Best to disguise those 2.
  Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:
 And then there is the herbal tonic made from Chaparral, Neem, Androgravis,
 and Graviola, that you can make yourself and take every day - it is used
 to
 cure cancers or keep cancer under control or not getting cancer for people
 and animals.
 Why not start with healthy eating, minerals and vitamins right now,
 instead
 of waiting for cancer to return?

 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
 dlg...@windstream.net
 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 3:45 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Dexter and Cali are together now

 All of these egulations, etc. are making someone money somewere.  It is
 protecting th US coporations who would loose mooney for one and I am sure
 someone else is lning his/her pockets.  Just as with human meds.  And
 then,
 after all that research even tho it is harmful to the consumer, the FDA
 takes the word of the manufacturer and alows distribution.  Otherwise, why
 are we having so many recalls of drugs found to cause suffering and death.
 When I check into Meds that my dr has prescribed for me, I often find they
 can cause cancer specifically Lymphoma which I recently had and after
 years
 of chemo which failed I went into spontaneous remision.  Why would I want
 to
 take them and have to deal with all that again?  My oncologist has said
 that
 if it came back (been 7 years) she would be willing to monitor my blood
 and
 assist me in a course of healthy eating, vitamins and minerals.  I refuse
 to
 go thru chemo again.  You may as well be dead.
  Ben Williams drsiebl...@gmail.com wrote:
  http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/
 
  You know, I've thought a lot about things that could make a difference
  and
  the most important thing that could change right now is the lack of
  availability of Virbagen Interferon Omega in the United States.  Why in
 the
  world does it make any sense for the FDA to require millions of dollars
  worth of peer reviewed studies to be undertaken for US approval on a
  drug
  that has been effectively saving cat's lives for almost a decade
 everywhere
  else in the world and has been used in hundreds of foreign studies.
  Interferon Omega would have probably saved Dexter's life, plain and
 simple.
  However, I can't get a drug for him (that has absolutely no abuse
 potential
  in humans, by the way) unless I go through a 2 month process with the
  DEA
  and FDA that will only result in a guarantee that any overnight package
 from
  Europe that contains the medication that I've been given 

Re: [Felvtalk] Pet meds for humans

2011-07-09 Thread katskat1
Tee Hee...

I will pretend I didn't get these emails.  I will also pretend I have
never done that kind of thing myself.  What else can you do when the
Government/FDA works so hard to protect ourselves from ourselves?
(also known as make money)

Kat

On 7/7/11, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:
 On 07-07, Cindy McHugh wrote:
 Hi Kat,

 I don't know about buying it in Mexico, but when I had an infected tooth
 recently, I did some research and ordered Fish Mox online. From everything

 I read, it's the same stuff that's prescribed by doctors and vets.  Oddly
 enough, if my pets are sick, I won't take a chance and I take them to the
 vet, but for myself, I'm willing to compromise a bit.

 Cindy

 I can identify with that Cindy.  I recently got a bad cat bite and
 used large dog size Clavamox. It is the exact same thing as human
 Augmentin, which is the antibiotic recommended for cat bites. My arm
 was all swollen up after the bite but the Clavamox worked great and I
 saved money on a doctor bill and the Augmentin.  The last time I was
 bitten it cost me $95. for the doctor and $45. for the Augmentin.
 Animal and vet meds are usually the same, but have different names,
 so the trick is knowing which is which, what works, and how much to
 take for how long.

 Lorrie

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Re: [Felvtalk] DMG

2011-07-09 Thread katskat1
Thanks to all I have decided if I can find the $ I am going to take
Luke to the vet and have some/all of her rotten teeth removed.  She is
obviously in discomfort and her breath has gotten progressively worse.
 She is ratty looking and apparently has been sickly for a long time
before I started feeding her as a stray but she still wants to live.

I was very apprehensive about doing this to a cat that stays outside -
has to - won't come in, fights to get back out and my inside cats are
ALL negatives.  But she sticks around and I don't have many options.

Now, if only I could successfully medicate her.  She will not eat
anything, kitten milk replacement, dry/wet food, treats, NOTHING with
any med of any kind.  Trying to syringe her is like fighting a wind
storm with lots of claws and then we are both so stressed we are
breathing hard.  Not good for her.  Or me.  So I am trying to give her
quality of whatever life she has

Hopefully yanking rotten, loose teeth will help.

kat

On 7/8/11, MaiMaiPG maima...@gmail.com wrote:
 His tongue does not hang out the side of his mouth nor does he look
 like he is pantingand he does look adorable.  Sorry to give any
 other impression.
 On Jul 8, 2011, at 1:53 AM, Natalie wrote:

 The hanging out tongue must be something other than missing teeth.
 We have
 quite a few cats with no teeth, and their tongues don't hang out the
 side of
 their mouths, if anything, the tips of the tongue might stick out in
 front -
 and looks adorable.  We have some real oldtimers here - started out
 feral
 and are mushes now.
 Life with bad teeth must be absolutely horrible and painful  I am
 always
 surprised how toothless cats just love dry food!

 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG
 Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 6:31 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] DMG

 Pretty Boy, a feral who hangs around and who is very loved, was live
 trapped for neutering.  The vet called me after they put him
 under...he had shuttered in pain when they put a tube in his mouth.
 She checked his teeth and they were totally awful.  Most of them were
 pulled.  The only side effect is that his tongue hangs out a lot of
 the time...no teeth to help him keep it in...or maybe he is expressing
 his opinion.  He eats both canned and dry food with the rest of the
 clan and is so handsome.  He is probably 13-14 years old (per vet) and
 is a total doll. Like the rest of the clan, he is not touchable most
 of the time.  He fusses and fumes and catches ground squirrels and
 others who are stupid enough to come into an area guarded by numerous
 cats.  Removing his teeth has definitely improved the quality if not
 quantity of his life.   As far as I know, none of the clan is FeLV+.
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote:

 Yes, in cats (and in humans) the constant infections and abscesses
 in a bad
 mouth of teeth have all sorts of dire consequences in the rest of
 the body's
 systems. I have never heard anyone who regretted having some or all
 of their
 babies' teeth pulled in the interests of clearing up stomatitis, etc.

 Diane R.

 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Heather
 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:00 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] DMG

 Yes, we have had 3 cases (2 rescues of mine, one a friend's so I
 don't know
 his testing status, he could be FIV+ though, he was a big male
 brought in
 from the streets) of full mouth extractions that resulted in a very
 sick
 kitty soon becoming a 'brand new cat.  One is a year out from the
 extraction, the other is 2 years out, both are doing so well!   Both
 of
 those guys were negative.  My friend's kitty is doing wonderfully,
 too, and
 his full mouth extraction was done by our humane society low-cost
 clinic for
 a fraction of what my guys were done for--most low cost clinics
 probably
 can't do that, though.

 All 3 of these guys now also eat dry food, by their own liking, I
 couldn't
 believe it.

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

 Your cats had stomatitis?  And it helped having all teeth removed?
 The problem with doing this to a cat with immunodeficiencies is
 (ours
 is
 FIV+, which is better than FeLV+) obviously slightly more risky!  It
 FIV+does
 sound rather drastic, doesn't it?
 We have several old cats without teeth, and they look like they're
 chomping a way at dry food...they just swallow it and love it more
 than canned food at times.
 Natalie

 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Heather
 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:18 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] DMG

 Hope the DMG proves to be helpful, but just thought I'd mention
 the 

Re: [Felvtalk] Clumping litter dangers

2011-07-09 Thread Beth Noren
Yes, I've used Dumor brand Starter/Grower Chick Feed.  I get it
from Tractor Supply Co., think it was $13.00 for 50lbs? last time I
got it.  It's a bit of a hike to TSC, so I don't always use it.  Plus.
my husband complains that it doesn't handle odor well enough.  Pros:
1.price  2.low dust  3.biodegradable  4.doesn't come from strip
mining.  5.safer.  Cons: 1.odor control  2.doesn't clump as hard as
clay  3.doesn't sift as easily as clay  4.some people have problems
with weevils in it, especially in summer.  Overall I like it,
especially after paying 40-50 bucks for a much smaller bag of World's
Best, which is pretty similar.

Hope this helps,
Beth N.

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:
 I've often wondered and worried about this chemical stuff in
 the clumping litter.  A friend of mine uses ground chicken corn.
 Have any of you tried this?  She says it's not only safer but
 much less expensive.

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