[Finale] iKey question
Does anyone know how to reprogram a keyboard shortcut for changing between scroll and page view in iKey? Since there are two menu items for this I don't know how to do it. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] iKey question
The best way to do this would be to program the keystroke command-option-` rather than a menu command. steve On Feb 25, 2005, at 3:07 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: Does anyone know how to reprogram a keyboard shortcut for changing between scroll and page view in iKey? Since there are two menu items for this I don't know how to do it. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] iKey question
There is two problems with this: Firstly, it is too slow (due to the reported keyboard commands delay) and secondly, this keystroke doesn't work on a German keyboard when in the text tool (while in page view), as it is the same as for one of the justification commands. This problem is limited to German keyboards, I believe. These two problems are the reason I want to reprogram it. Johannes Steve Gibons wrote: The best way to do this would be to program the keystroke command-option-` rather than a menu command. steve On Feb 25, 2005, at 3:07 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: Does anyone know how to reprogram a keyboard shortcut for changing between scroll and page view in iKey? Since there are two menu items for this I don't know how to do it. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
From: Johannes Gebauer There is no reason why I would want my title text blocks appear in the expression list, it would only convolut it more. how about a set in-line (they appear in the Text List but are unassignable) default bookmarks which can be added to or modified by user? the defaults could be: dynamics; tempo and rehearsals; stylistic (espressivo etc.); symbols (fermata, Ped/*); numbers; etc. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
From: David W. Fenton What I *would* support is if the text expression dialog's text box at the top were instead replaced with the standard Finale text editor. Then you could put anything in the text expression that you could put into the text editor, and the user interface would be exactly the same in both places. at present you can edit the font attributes in (seemingly) the same manner - by calling up the character settings box - but other aspects of typographical control (eg. justification) are not controllable in the same manner. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz Multi-line expressions are a problem to create (unless that's been changed past 2K3). possible since 2004. There's no easy way to make any given object a stretchiness or smartness. proper typographical control - kerning - would allow for stretchiness, but not in any smart way. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
From: Noel Stoutenburg A running header, or a dedication in a text block have nothing to do with the way the music sounds, and I would submit that the line, is _not_ at all interchangeable with Allegro ma non troppo. dedications could be entered in a new file info entry box. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
From: Johannes Gebauer It still escapes me why this kind of thing cannot live happily in two different tools. Before the expression tool was improved I could see that there was some overlap between measure text blocks and measure text expressions, however, all these problems are now indeed covered in the expression tool in my opinion, and I see no need to merge the two tools. That is not to say that both tools could be vastly improved. the similarities in functioning are far greater than the differences, and as long as there are two separate tools the possibility that one will be serviced in a given version and not the other, as happened in F2004, exists. it's only a small detail, but is nonetheless indicative of the non-sense of separation of the tools: calling up the same line spacing dialogue box in the text tool is done with cmd-sh-L but in the expression tool with cmd-L (mac). ...it is unlikely that MM will actually make such a major interface change and at the same time merge tools (to which a lot of people have either objected or don't really follow the need for it), and secondly I sort of feel that merging the two tools is going to make things worse. In fact, I fear that by the end we will have a merged tool with the same design problems we have already, and none of the shortcomings of the text block tool fixed. most of the needed funtionality is there, but separated/overlapping two tools, it just needs consolidation. it's not the underlying structure of the programme that would be altered, but the interface, so i don't see how things could necessarily get worse. it is not the same situation as with the tuplet tool in F2005, where completely new functionality was incorporated. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
From: David W. Fenton ...each different kind has different properties that have different effects on the music. Text blocks have a whole set of properties that are page-based (and have no effect on performance), while text expressions are measure- or note-attached. text blocks are page- or measure-based, expressions are note- or measure-based. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
kurt, johannes (and others), From: Kurt Gnos I would NOT mingle the two tools since they have an entirely other functionality. However, I'd like some of the things you mention, but in the Text Tool where I might use them. actually they don't, both tools at present control different instances of very similar items: what difference is there between a multi-word text block and a multi-word text expression (in the current state of the tools)? there is no answer to this, each user makes this distinction for themselves, perhaps according to the notational style, but one thing is certain, for me at least, they are not two different tools, although they may be called upon to do different tasks in different situations: one tool allows us to assign to the note or measure, the other to the measure (in a different manner) and the page, this overlapping is redundant. alignment of two expressions assigned with different tools is a problem, as is assuring consistent appearance and behaviour of them following changes to the layout. with the recent improvements to the expression tool, the distinction is even less significant than it was before. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
At 10:48 AM 2/25/05 -0500, shirling neueweise wrote: From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz At 11:58 AM 2/24/05 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote: It still escapes me why this kind of thing cannot live happily in two different tools. jef suggested two. ? one. Sorry. Meant two in one. That closer? :) D ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
I think you are counting fly legs now. Tell me, what is it you are missing in a measure attached context, which cannot be done in the expression tool? (I can actually think of one situation, but that, on the other hand, is so special it is much better done in the text tool.) Johannes shirling neueweise wrote: From: David W. Fenton ...each different kind has different properties that have different effects on the music. Text blocks have a whole set of properties that are page-based (and have no effect on performance), while text expressions are measure- or note-attached. text blocks are page- or measure-based, expressions are note- or measure-based. -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
Fine by me for the expression tool, but I still don't want my text blocks in there. Johannes shirling neueweise wrote: From: Johannes Gebauer There is no reason why I would want my title text blocks appear in the expression list, it would only convolut it more. how about a set in-line (they appear in the Text List but are unassignable) default bookmarks which can be added to or modified by user? the defaults could be: dynamics; tempo and rehearsals; stylistic (espressivo etc.); symbols (fermata, Ped/*); numbers; etc. -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
It's not that I want to have the last word, but I use the two tools for entirely different things. When you say alignment of two expressions assigned with different tools is a problem, I simply don't get why you have to use two tools in the first place. If it is an expression, why do you not use the expression tool? I actually want the functionality of measure text blocks improved, since at the moment there is only very limited use for them. I want to be able to assign a _measure_ attached text block to a position on the _page_. Pretty much the only thing I use measure attached text blocks for is that I change all my page text blocks to measure attached ones before I extract parts, only to change them back into page text blocks once the parts are extracted. The other two situations where i use measure attached text blocks are so special I won't even go about explaining them. So for me there is no overlap of the two tools. And after this whole discussion I have actually decided that I am totally against merging them. Johannes shirling neueweise wrote: actually they don't, both tools at present control different instances of very similar items: what difference is there between a multi-word text block and a multi-word text expression (in the current state of the tools)? there is no answer to this, each user makes this distinction for themselves, perhaps according to the notational style, but one thing is certain, for me at least, they are not two different tools, although they may be called upon to do different tasks in different situations: one tool allows us to assign to the note or measure, the other to the measure (in a different manner) and the page, this overlapping is redundant. alignment of two expressions assigned with different tools is a problem, as is assuring consistent appearance and behaviour of them following changes to the layout. with the recent improvements to the expression tool, the distinction is even less significant than it was before. -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 25, 2005, at 10:47 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: kurt, johannes (and others), From: Kurt Gnos I would NOT mingle the two tools since they have an entirely other functionality. However, I'd like some of the things you mention, but in the Text Tool where I might use them. actually they don't, both tools at present control different instances of very similar items: what difference is there between a multi-word text block and a multi-word text expression (in the current state of the tools)? The difference for me is I don't necessarily want to see every text block in the dialogue box list, especially if they show up in the displayed font size. Why would I want to see my titles, copyright, composer, stage instructions, dialogue cues, etc., every time I want to add a mute marking? I don't usually need to duplicate those, though I agree the possibility should be there in the Text tool. The way things are divided now, as restrictive as it is, is actually an organisational advantage. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] iKey question
On Feb 25, 2005, at 9:31 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: There is two problems with this: Firstly, it is too slow (due to the reported keyboard commands delay) Are you using vers. 1 or 2 of iKey? and secondly, this keystroke doesn't work on a German keyboard when in the text tool (while in page view), as it is the same as for one of the justification commands. This problem is limited to German keyboards, I believe. Are you saying that the command to toggle page view is the same command as for justification? If that's the case you will have to program one shortcut for each menu, and they can't be the same. (limitation of iKey, which can't test for a checkmark in the menu) steve ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
Hello! The Finale Productivity Tips site got some major additions today. * I've put 19 brand new interviews on the site, with people in various ways connected with Finale (developers at MakeMusic, engravers, copyists, plug-in developers, publishers, composers, etc). I can almost guarantee that you'll find some VERY interesting reading here! * Another new feature is the Engraver's Hall of Fame, where you can find links to excellent Finale engraving samples. Enjoy! Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
I wrote: The Finale Productivity Tips site got some major additions today. [snip] The URL is: http://www.finaletips.nu/ Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On 25 Feb 2005 at 10:48, shirling neueweise wrote: the similarities in functioning are far greater than the differences, I disagree with this. The fact that both use blocks of texts is a trivial similarity. Everything *else* about the two is completely different, and *should* remain different. Mixing all text blocks and text expressions into a single dialog makes no sense to me at all for placing either expressions or text blocks into a score (I hardly ever re-use text blocks -- they entered once and that's that, whereas most text expressions get repeatedly re- used throughout a score). But for *editing* all text as a group (e.g., to set fonts for a group of expressions/text blocks), having them all in one dialog *does* sound attractive. So, the ideal world for me would be to have the all text blocks dialog added, which would allow selection of multiple text blocks and the application of properties to the selected group, but then to leave the text expression dialog as it is, with the exception of: and as long as there are two separate tools the possibility that one will be serviced in a given version and not the other, as happened in F2004, exists. it's only a small detail, but is nonetheless indicative of the non-sense of separation of the tools: calling up the same line spacing dialogue box in the text tool is done with cmd-sh-L but in the expression tool with cmd-L (mac). That's just a mistake. In a properly designed program, text editing wherever it's needed would use exactly the same UI in all contexts (with features inappropriate for a particular context either absent or disabled). I have no quibble with that idea. But that is subsidiary to the organization of UI for *using* the text blocks, which I don't see any reason major re-organization. Elimination of the distinction between expressions and articulations *is* something that would make sense to me, as long as the different capabilities that presently reside in different tools are all available in the new combined tool. Of course, it does raise a problem for me: in my repertory, f for forte is most often used as a dynamic marking (play loud from this point until the next dynamic mark) but also in the same piece can be used as a dynamic mark (this particular note should be accented), where the second type is more like a sforzando. This happens in early Beethoven and in other Viennese music of the period through about the 1820s. If I had a dynamic f and an articulation f both in the same dialog, there'd have to be some visual method of distinguishing them, or it would be a real pain to use. But I'm definitely against an combination of the text block tool with other tools if the separate tools for using were to be eliminated. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On 25 Feb 2005 at 10:49, shirling neueweise wrote: From: David W. Fenton ...each different kind has different properties that have different effects on the music. Text blocks have a whole set of properties that are page-based (and have no effect on performance), while text expressions are measure- or note-attached. text blocks are page- or measure-based, expressions are note- or measure-based. Given the new capabilities of text expressions (multi-line, control of automatic placement), why would any one use a measure-attached text block, rather than a measure-attached expression? Measure-attached text blocks *do* overlap in behavior with text expressions, but in recent versions of Finale, text expressions have been enhanced to the point that I no longer see any use for measure- attached text blocks. Page-based text blocks have no analog in text expressions, and no non- trivial overlap in their characteristics (only the text editing interface should be shared between the two). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: Browsers
Here is a test to see how up-to-date your browser is. Go to http://maps.google.com and browse a few maps. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
FYI, Jari, I'm reading the interviews page in Safari, and the sidebar is slightly too tall for the window, so that the bottom half of Tyler Turner is not visible. Vertical scrolling scrolls the main window only, so I can't get at the bottom of the sidebar. At normal size it looks funny but the link is still usable. If I bump the size up one notch, the bottom two names in the interview list are lost altogether. Bumping the size down all the way to tiny still doesn't quite bring the entire sidebar into view. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:12:19 -0800, Mark D Lew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FYI, Jari, I'm reading the interviews page in Safari, and the sidebar is slightly too tall for the window, so that the bottom half of Tyler Turner is not visible. Vertical scrolling scrolls the main window only, so I can't get at the bottom of the sidebar. At normal size it looks funny but the link is still usable. If I bump the size up one notch, the bottom two names in the interview list are lost altogether. Bumping the size down all the way to tiny still doesn't quite bring the entire sidebar into view. I'm on Firefox for Mac OS X, and I can only see down to Matthew Hindson in the sidebar list of interviews, no matter what sized text zoom I use. Also, there's a typo in the Allen Fisher interview. The next to last question should read lose, not loose. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com FinaleIRC (come chat!): http://finaleirc.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Given the new capabilities of text expressions (multi-line, control of automatic placement), why would any one use a measure-attached text block, rather than a measure-attached expression? Justification. Can't do it in the new text expressions. Measure-attached text blocks *do* overlap in behavior with text expressions, but in recent versions of Finale, text expressions have been enhanced to the point that I no longer see any use for measure- attached text blocks. Almost true, but not quite. In addition to the justification issue, one rarely re-uses text blocks, whereas we often reuse text expressions, as some have pointed out. Having blocks of dialogue cues show up in the text expression list would be a huge pain, so it is logical (now) to enter them as measure-attached text blocks, for one example. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
From: Johannes Gebauer When you say alignment of two expressions assigned with different tools is a problem, I simply don't get why you have to use two tools in the first place. If it is an expression, why do you not use the expression tool? currently because i can't full-justify multi-line texts (expression tool). a simple example: i have in some scores aligned the bottom of the composer's name with the bottom of the tempo indication in m.1, which as you can imagine is a real PITA when you decide to even slightly alter the page layout. I actually want the functionality of measure text blocks improved, since at the moment there is only very limited use for them. I want to be able to assign a _measure_ attached text block to a position on the _page_. i agree totally, and from the start have suggested that the three possibilities - note-, measure- or page-attached - should be possible for EVERY Text element. Pretty much the only thing I use measure attached text blocks for is that I change all my page text blocks to measure attached ones before I extract parts, only to change them back into page text blocks once the parts are extracted. i don't really see the logic in this... but hey, what if you could attach them to measure 1 (for example), but define their positioning relative to the page!? The other two situations where i use measure attached text blocks are so special I won't even go about explaining them. please do explain them, an incomplete discussion leads to faulty conclusions. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
From: David W. Fenton So, the ideal world for me would be to have the all text blocks dialog added, which would allow selection of multiple text blocks and the application of properties to the selected group, but then to leave the text expression dialog as it is, with the exception of: such editing should also then be possible for a sequence of text expressions, so that instead of changing ALL instances of 12pt palatino to 12pt times (via change font command) the user can select a discrete list of Texts in the Text List to which this change is applied. sorry i've forgotten who mentioned it (noel?), but someone did wish for the possibility to edit a group of text blocks. If I had a dynamic f and an articulation f both in the same dialog, there'd have to be some visual method of distinguishing them, or it would be a real pain to use. there is a comment field containing info unique to the Text now, so you could write art. beside one, and dyn. beside the other, or above for the espressivo appearing above the staff, and below for the one between the piano staves (attached to the RH). the placement is a problem, since it appears to the right of the Text in the Text List, longer expressions cover the info, a (visual) design flaw, but the possibility is already there (F2005, maybe it was already in 2004?). But I'm definitely against an combination of the text block tool with other tools if the separate tools for using were to be eliminated. i'm not proposing that any of the current functionality be removed. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
Jari, These additions to the tips site are great! Now, how am I going to get any work done? ;-) Hal -- Harold Owen 2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
for the problem of management of a large number of Texts (page blocks, expressions, dynamics etc.), the bookmarks i mentioned could be helpful (click on dynamics and you are taken immediately to the marker dynamics in the list - key commands could be implemented), but perhaps something more along the lines of tabs, like in the current expression designer dialogue box, might be useful. with such tabs, each user could manage their Text Lists according to their own personal understanding of the function of the Text items. for me, the distinction between text and expressions is dubious and varies according the era and style of the composition i am scoring, and in some cases, according to the composer, or even the individual score. for extensive (multi-line) Texts, only the first line would appear in the Text List (as with current functioning), but clicking on it would show it in detail to the right of the List (appearance would be similar to the dialogue box that appears when clicking on Edit now). taking the above comments into consideration, can anyone give me an example of how their work would be _hindered_ or otherwise adversely affected if the (current) text tool and expression tool were combined into one tool (with an efficient interface of course)? ...preferably the response would reflect experience with, or at least an understanding of, the improvements to the expression tool in 2004/2005... jef -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
Mark D Lew wrote: I'm reading the interviews page in Safari, and the sidebar is slightly too tall for the window, so that the bottom half of Tyler Turner is not visible. Vertical scrolling scrolls the main window only, so I can't get at the bottom of the sidebar. At normal size it looks funny but the link is still usable. If I bump the size up one notch, the bottom two names in the interview list are lost altogether. Bumping the size down all the way to tiny still doesn't quite bring the entire sidebar into view. First, you can *always* access all the different interviews by clicking on the main Interviews link. This is not a browser problem but a design problem on my part. The submenu below (with all the names) are supplied as a convenient way to directly access the rest of the interviews - if your screen resolution supports it. I know this might seem awkward if you don't see all the names, but there's a difficult balance here between design/functionality/usability. I want the main menu to be fixed, so you always can access the main sections of the site. What I could do is to redesign the site so the submenu isn't placed below the main menu, but that would loose valuable horizontal screen estate... Or I could remove the submenu altogether, which would make the UI more clear, but the functionality would drop. Comments? Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
Jari Williamsson wrote: I wrote: The Finale Productivity Tips site got some major additions today. [snip] The URL is: http://www.finaletips.nu/ Terrific addition! Thanks! -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On 25 Feb 2005 at 14:08, shirling neueweise wrote: From: David W. Fenton So, the ideal world for me would be to have the all text blocks dialog added, which would allow selection of multiple text blocks and the application of properties to the selected group, but then to leave the text expression dialog as it is, with the exception of: such editing should also then be possible for a sequence of text expressions, so that instead of changing ALL instances of 12pt palatino to 12pt times (via change font command) the user can select a discrete list of Texts in the Text List to which this change is applied. . . . When I said allow selection of multiple text blocks I meant by mouse, which takes care of what you asked for. Standard listbox behavior on Windows is SHIFT-CLICK highlights contiguous lists, CTRL- CLICK highlights an individual item, non-contiguous or not. So that would take care of what you've asked for (which was my intent in wording it in that fashion). . . . sorry i've forgotten who mentioned it (noel?), but someone did wish for the possibility to edit a group of text blocks. That's precisely what I described, and, I believe, the only possible benefit from having a dialog that shows all instances of all text in a file. If I had a dynamic f and an articulation f both in the same dialog, there'd have to be some visual method of distinguishing them, or it would be a real pain to use. there is a comment field containing info unique to the Text now, so you could write art. beside one, and dyn. beside the other, or above for the espressivo appearing above the staff, and below for the one between the piano staves (attached to the RH). the placement is a problem, since it appears to the right of the Text in the Text List, longer expressions cover the info, a (visual) design flaw, but the possibility is already there (F2005, maybe it was already in 2004?). To me, it would be much better for items marked to behave like expressions to be one color and items acting as articulations to be another color (as I now have expressions and articulations displaying in the score). That's a lot more visual than text, and also requires no work on my part. If it's a property of the item (i.e., expression-like performance effect vs. articulation-like performance effect), I shouldn't need to manually add text to be able to distinguish them. But I'm definitely against an combination of the text block tool with other tools if the separate tools for using were to be eliminated. i'm not proposing that any of the current functionality be removed. That wasn't clear to me from any of the discussion, which all seemed to revolve around the idea of completely collapsing multiple functions into a single one. I understand why note and score expressions are no longer separate tools, but I still get tripped up by it all the time, and have to redo things. That is, I'm not entirely happy with the elimination of the score expressions tool. But I suspect I'm in a very small minority on that score. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On 25 Feb 2005 at 14:18, Christopher Smith wrote: On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Given the new capabilities of text expressions (multi-line, control of automatic placement), why would any one use a measure-attached text block, rather than a measure-attached expression? Justification. Can't do it in the new text expressions. Then the solution is to ask for adding justification to text expressions, rather than the Draconian solution of folding the two functionalities into one. Measure-attached text blocks *do* overlap in behavior with text expressions, but in recent versions of Finale, text expressions have been enhanced to the point that I no longer see any use for measure- attached text blocks. Almost true, but not quite. In addition to the justification issue, one rarely re-uses text blocks, whereas we often reuse text expressions, as some have pointed out. Having blocks of dialogue cues show up in the text expression list would be a huge pain, so it is logical (now) to enter them as measure-attached text blocks, for one example. That's a strong argument *against* combining the tools, seems to me. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On 25 Feb 2005 at 14:22, shirling neueweise wrote: taking the above comments into consideration, can anyone give me an example of how their work would be _hindered_ or otherwise adversely affected if the (current) text tool and expression tool were combined into one tool (with an efficient interface of course)? ...preferably the response would reflect experience with, or at least an understanding of, the improvements to the expression tool in 2004/2005... The key to your point is the phrase with an efficient interface of course. Most of the problems I see that people are pointing out about the differences between text handling in text blocks and in text expressions seem to me to be incomplete implementations of UI and capability in the text editing capabilities of expressions. Combining the two functions into a single tool requires you to describe a property that the end user then has to set to indicate which list the item belongs in. Now, if you're talking about functionality added on top of the existing two user interfaces, I've not got a problem, as you would automatically get the appropriate properties set if you created your text from one tool or the other. But if you had only a single tool for both types, then you'd have to set the type on every item, and that would be a major annoyance to me, as I hardly use any text blocks, ever. Other than the title page and the page headers and footers, it is the very rare score that I have even one additional text block (either page- or measure- attached). So, what you're asking for would get in my way in a big way, while not adding any functionality that I'd ever use. To me, the only justification for combining tools is if there is already overlap between them. In the case of note and measure expressions, the pool of expressions was identical between them and the different tools served only to distinguish how they were placed in the score. That was a case of massive overlap that was removed by combining the tools. Of course, as I said in an earlier message, I still find it rather annoying to *not* have the two tools, though I suspect I'm in a minority on that, precisely because I hardly ever use measure expressions (tempo markings are practically the only time). In regard to text expressions and text blocks, there is (in my experience) absolutely no overlap of a single piece of text between the two functions, so there's really no advantage of combining the tools. But, again, I'll repeat: I *do* see utility in having a new tool that allows management of your pool of text fragments, for the purpose of allowing you to apply formatting and layout to groups of them. Again, I'm not sure there'd be overlap here, as I hardly ever use the same fonts/layouts for expressions as I use for text blocks, but as I said, my use of text blocks is extremely narrow. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
On Feb 25, 2005, at 11:29 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote: First, you can *always* access all the different interviews by clicking on the main Interviews link. Right. I had no problem with access. I just thought the sidebar looked funny, so I was passing that on in case you hadn't seen it. Personally, I'm fine with the site as it is. What I could do is to redesign the site so the submenu isn't placed below the main menu, but that would loose valuable horizontal screen estate... Or I could remove the submenu altogether, which would make the UI more clear, but the functionality would drop. Comments? Well, if you ask me horizontal space isn't so scarce. Almost any monitor is going to be more landscape than portrait, so any monitor small enough to be running short horizontally is already far too short vertically. On my screen, I have room to extend the window about 150% wider horizontally, but I wouldn't even want to because it makes the line length too long for comfortable reading. On the other hand, if I reduce the window to about 50% as wide, the interview still reads fine, just on a narrower column. It looks like if you made the sidebar about 150% its current width, you could fit the list interviewer names in two columns and not lose much horizontal space. On the other hand, what happens when you add more interviews? Even with two columns, you'll run out of space again. Perhaps including such a broad list in an unscrollable panel is inherently problematic and not just a matter of squeezing out a little more space. The other sections which have a second menu in the sidebar all go only to the level of categories within the section, not individual items. If you do cut the interview names from the sidebar, it woulc be nice to add a Previous/Next link to the bottom of each interview, for those who want to read all of them. As long as you're doing that, you should also include a link back to the interview index, as an additional reminder that one can access them all by going back. That's particularly helpful to someone who has arrived at an interview from a direct link and hasn't been through the site's index hierarchy yet. I think the chopped off sidebar is a problem. Even if the lost information is redundant and not really necessary, I just think it's a turn-off to the user to see something that's gone off the edge and is not accessible by scrolling. It is more frustrating than if the panel were not there at all. That may not be logical, but I think that's how it is with most users. If I were viewing on my old computer with a tiny monitor (tiny in terms of pixels, I mean), I wouldn't mind so much, because when you've got an out-of-date machine you come to expect certain things won't work perfectly. But right now I'm viewing on a 15 PowerBook G4, which is reasonably current and certainly not the smallest thing out there. Mind you, all of this is just idle speculation because you asked for comments. I'm not actually requesting anything nor objecting to the current layout. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] you write: I can't help you with the first, but to select and move more than one text block at a time, shift-click their handles, or drag around the handles to select several at once. You can then drag or nudge them at will, and restore default positioning by hitting the back arrow above the Enter key (Clear for Mac). Thanks. I've already found that useful. If you don't mind creating the text block in the expression tool instead of the Text Tool, you can reuse them as much as you like (including entering them with a Metatool), but measure or note attached only, not page attached, as I assume you need. Yes, the expression tool is fine in most contexts, but it's for page attached text that I would like easier copying, retaining layout. For example, having the same two-line, centre-justified title on the title page and above the first page of notation, as a centred header, but in a different font size, requires that I copy the text into a block that is left justified and positioned relative to the left margin, and then set both justification and frame attributes a second time. An alternative, which might be less work in some situations, would be display the same block on both pages, change the magnification of the title page with the resize tool and change its margins to position the text. -- Ken Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/ I reject emails 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Clearing Staff Styles
Revelation! I often need to clear a staff style for a measure or two, and have done it for a number of years now by selecting Clear Staff Styles from the Staff menu. I just now discovered that I can do the same thing with one key, Clear on the Mac (I imagine it's the backspace above Enter for PCers), or fn 6 on my laptop. Ye gods! I can't believe I didn't know this for so long! I had better sit down with the manual again. First scrolling pages wtih command-pg down, then this. Wow. Mucho time saver. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
Listers, I know that there are many tekkie geniuses on this list and maybe one of you with knowledge of the various generations of CD players can answer this one: I'm preparing a set of CDs for an educational project (always a mind-blower, in terms of what people ask for). It's a listening project with really good music for kids to learn, but they require an assessment CD with about a gazillion snips of the tunes for kids to identify. Long story short, The way they wanted it, there were 128 tracks. That's impossible, of course, but I got it down to 96 by talking them out of having a voiceover read the answers to each quiz (I figure even a BAD teacher can read letters and numbers, in a pinch). Also, even at that, the CD is now 79 minutes long, which of course most CD players will accommodate these days. I'm just afraid that some of the schools may be using ancient CD players, some of which will PLAY these CDs, but stop at around 74 minutes. Others may not be able to punch in track numbers above nine or ten (I had one like that back in the day.) Does anyone have a good idea how we might word a warning: Like, If you are using a CD player that was made before 19, you may not be able to access the tracks automatically, and your player may not play the final few minutes of CD2. Please use a newer CD player, and make certain in advance that you can access all of the material. Or somesuch. I don't have to word the final version. What I want to know is: Does anyone have a good approximate cutoff year for players that are pretty much able to do what we need? (Never mind that if music teachers have to punch the advance button ninety or so times, to access the final elements, they will go on disability for repetitive stress syndrome.) Ah... music educators... ya gotta love 'em. Any suggestions welcome, and thanks, Linda Worsley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
shirling neueweise wrote: From: Johannes Gebauer When you say alignment of two expressions assigned with different tools is a problem, I simply don't get why you have to use two tools in the first place. If it is an expression, why do you not use the expression tool? currently because i can't full-justify multi-line texts (expression tool). a simple example: i have in some scores aligned the bottom of the composer's name with the bottom of the tempo indication in m.1, which as you can imagine is a real PITA when you decide to even slightly alter the page layout. OK, I wouldn't ever do that (and none of the publishers who I take as my ideals do that either) but that doesn't mean noone else does. you can actually do this by using an expression for the composer, but I realize that this has other disadvantages. It is a very special need though, and one which imo doesn't justify the merge of the tools. In fact, it could easily be done if the text block tool was improved with more placement options for measure attached text blocks. I actually want the functionality of measure text blocks improved, since at the moment there is only very limited use for them. I want to be able to assign a _measure_ attached text block to a position on the _page_. i agree totally, and from the start have suggested that the three possibilities - note-, measure- or page-attached - should be possible for EVERY Text element. Well, that's a need I simply cannot see. Pretty much the only thing I use measure attached text blocks for is that I change all my page text blocks to measure attached ones before I extract parts, only to change them back into page text blocks once the parts are extracted. i don't really see the logic in this... The logic is that if I don't do this, text blocks on pages higher than the page count of the part will disappear, and most of the text blocks will be in the wrong place on the wrong page. There is two ways around this, either attach all text blocks to the first page, or attach them to the first measure of a relevant movement (with a copy in every part). but hey, what if you could attach them to measure 1 (for example), but define their positioning relative to the page!? Exactly. But I would still do that in the text block tool, and not in the expression tool. The other two situations where i use measure attached text blocks are so special I won't even go about explaining them. please do explain them, an incomplete discussion leads to faulty conclusions. Well, one situation is when you need fully justified text for a multi-line expression. This can be done with a measure attached text block, but has the disadvantage of being attached to one part only. I have had the need once, and didn't need to attach to more than one part, so I used a text block. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
Linda Worsley wrote: (Never mind that if music teachers have to punch the advance button ninety or so times, to access the final elements, they will go on disability for repetitive stress syndrome.) Ah... music educators... ya gotta love 'em. I'm no techie guru, but I can tell you that players that would need you to press that damn button 90 times are still very common. And not just old ones. Not that there's much of a way around that, obviously, other than producing multiple CDs (one per chapter, or similar). On the other hand, I've never come across anybody having a problem with 80-minute CDs. After all, a significant proportion of commercial ones (anything from classical through to chart compilations) nudge the 80-minute mark. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
Linda, I have a CD (it's the example set of CD's from Samuel Adler's book The Study of Orchestration that has index numbers in addition to track numbers. This means that Track 1 has five or so examples, each with their own index number, so Track 1.1, 1.2, etc. He manages to squeeze many individual examples onto each CD this way, and it is old; one of the first generations of CDs, so I know it's part of the standard from way back. Not all CD players can get to the individual index numbers, so all you can do is start playing Track 1 and wait for the other index numbers to play before you get to 1.5, but it's probably better than endlessly punching next track every time the CD is played. You can group short examples in the same category together, hopefully starting with one they are likely to start with, and save their trigger fingers for the mouse button! I'm not sure how to do this, as I have never used this feature of the spec myself, but this info might get you on the right track. Christopher On Feb 25, 2005, at 6:26 PM, Linda Worsley wrote: Listers, I know that there are many tekkie geniuses on this list and maybe one of you with knowledge of the various generations of CD players can answer this one: I'm preparing a set of CDs for an educational project (always a mind-blower, in terms of what people ask for). It's a listening project with really good music for kids to learn, but they require an assessment CD with about a gazillion snips of the tunes for kids to identify. Long story short, The way they wanted it, there were 128 tracks. That's impossible, of course, but I got it down to 96 by talking them out of having a voiceover read the answers to each quiz (I figure even a BAD teacher can read letters and numbers, in a pinch). Also, even at that, the CD is now 79 minutes long, which of course most CD players will accommodate these days. I'm just afraid that some of the schools may be using ancient CD players, some of which will PLAY these CDs, but stop at around 74 minutes. Others may not be able to punch in track numbers above nine or ten (I had one like that back in the day.) Does anyone have a good idea how we might word a warning: Like, If you are using a CD player that was made before 19, you may not be able to access the tracks automatically, and your player may not play the final few minutes of CD2. Please use a newer CD player, and make certain in advance that you can access all of the material. Or somesuch. I don't have to word the final version. What I want to know is: Does anyone have a good approximate cutoff year for players that are pretty much able to do what we need? (Never mind that if music teachers have to punch the advance button ninety or so times, to access the final elements, they will go on disability for repetitive stress syndrome.) Ah... music educators... ya gotta love 'em. Any suggestions welcome, and thanks, Linda Worsley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
On 25 Feb 2005 at 18:26, Linda Worsley wrote: What I want to know is: Does anyone have a good approximate cutoff year for players that are pretty much able to do what we need? I just realized the other night that I'm using a 20-year-old CD player as my primary CD player in my stereo system. It's a Magnavox, purchased at the time because it was one of the first over-sampling models. It has served me quite well, though there are 3 elements of the LCD display that don't work. And the sound it produces is better than when I play CDs from my Sony DVD player. I don't know if it plays longer CDs, though. It probably won't (I don't have any to test with -- my longest is 72 minutes and something). (Never mind that if music teachers have to punch the advance button ninety or so times, to access the final elements, they will go on disability for repetitive stress syndrome.) Ah... music educators... ya gotta love 'em. Wouldn't this be better done with index numbers within the tracks? Or do CD players no longer have index advance buttons on them? Not only would it cut down on the number of tracks, if you set it up right it could also cut down on the number of 2-second gaps between tracks, which with 90 of them, could amount to quite a bit of found space, though not enough to get you below 74.5 minutes. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
Christopher Smith wrote: Linda, I have a CD (it's the example set of CD's from Samuel Adler's book The Study of Orchestration that has index numbers in addition to track numbers. This means that Track 1 has five or so examples, each with their own index number, so Track 1.1, 1.2, etc. He manages to squeeze many individual examples onto each CD this way, and it is old; one of the first generations of CDs, so I know it's part of the standard from way back. Not all CD players can get to the individual index numbers, so all you can do is start playing Track 1 and wait for the other index numbers to play before you get to 1.5, but it's probably better than endlessly punching next track every time the CD is played. You can group short examples in the same category together, hopefully starting with one they are likely to start with, and save their trigger fingers for the mouse button! Index numbers are great. But almost no players recognise them - certainly not the players sitting in most classrooms. Really, if you go this route, you have to accept you're creating perhaps a dozen tracks, and there's the very small chance that a few people will be able to use the index function (and also that those same people will know that it exists and know what to do). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
On 25 Feb 2005 at 18:47, Christopher Smith wrote: I'm not sure how to do this, as I have never used this feature of the spec myself, but this info might get you on the right track. It's a matter of setting up your cue sheet when recording to the CD. Here's a sample from a recent cue sheet I've done: PERFORMER NYU Collegium Musicum TITLE Il Giardino d'Amore Side By Side (Viols) FILE F:\Audio\CollegiumCombined\2004-12-Collegium.wav WAVE TRACK 01 AUDIO TITLE Steffani: Saldi marmi, che coprite PERFORMER NYU Collegium Musicum INDEX 01 00:00:00 INDEX 02 01:33:33 INDEX 03 02:54:25 INDEX 04 05:03:25 INDEX 05 05:56:29 INDEX 06 06:51:25 TRACK 02 AUDIO TITLE Legrenzi: Non mi ferir PERFORMER NYU Collegium Musicum INDEX 00 09:06:00 INDEX 01 09:08:00 INDEX 02 12:00:12 TRACK 03 AUDIO TITLE Legrenzi: Di due fiammi PERFORMER NYU Collegium Musicum INDEX 00 14:59:50 INDEX 01 15:01:50 INDEX 02 15:40:00 INDEX 03 16:46:50 INDEX 04 17:23:54 INDEX 05 18:08:35 TRACK 04 AUDIO TITLE Taverner: In Nomine PERFORMER NYU Collegium Musicum INDEX 00 19:09:00 INDEX 01 19:11:00 And so forth. (the lack of a 2-second gap at the beginning of the first rack, which is supposedly required, is a limitation of the software I'm using, EAC, Exact Audio Copy, which simply can't do it) Naturally, you have to have CD-writing software that supports cue sheets, and the index numbers are only useful on CD players that have index advance buttons (which a lot of low-end players lack; I've even noticed that lots of them even lack within-track scan buttons, which makes them useless). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
At 06:26 PM 2/25/05 -0500, Linda Worsley wrote: What I want to know is: Does anyone have a good approximate cutoff year for players that are pretty much able to do what we need? Okay, you had me curious. So I just burned a 79:58 CDR with the final track only 60 seconds long (so it would have to find the cue point after 74 minutes). Then I dragged out my 1984 Sony D14 portable, which has been sitting quietly for the past few years as it chews through C-batteries (!), and the CD played fine. I cued the last track with no trouble. Also, I played from a point before 74minuntes on the CD through to the end, and it got to the last cue just fine. I also pulled out my KD Show ID CD #1 with 99 tracks, and it played just fine (although it's only 45 minutes). I can't know if that will be the case for other manufacturers, but this 21-year-old CD player worked great! Christopher's suggestion of index numbers probably won't work. We have players capable of that at the radio station, but nobody's ever actually tried to use that feature! Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
At 6:54 PM -0500 2/25/05, David W. Fenton wrote: Wouldn't this be better done with index numbers within the tracks? I considered that option, but at McGraw-Hill, when I was producing their recordings (not that long ago) we found that MANY teachers did not want index points, because they could not access them on their CD players. In fact, my brand new SONY boombox, though it has enough buttons for a 747, will not find indexes. So I have to go with tracks. I agree it's a TERRIBLE idea to have so many tracks, but that's what the asked me for, and mine is not to reason why (within the limits of the technology). Thanks, all, Linda ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Browsers
Go to http://maps.google.com and browse a few maps. No support for Safari. They need to do more homework. -- Simon Troup Digital Music Art - Finale IRC channel server: irc.chatspike.net port: 6667 channel: #Finale - ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Browsers
On 26 Feb 2005 at 0:22, Simon Troup wrote: Go to http://maps.google.com and browse a few maps. No support for Safari. They need to do more homework. It uses a non-standard technique, the name of which I forget, that was created by Microsoft and implemented in Internet Explorer, and that the Mozilla crew decided to copy in Gecko-based browsers. So, it's really only luck that it's supported in anything other than IE, as it's depending on functionality that's not a W3C standard. It actually is quite an impressive demonstration of the technology, though. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] how to get the best possible sound output
Thank you very much for the time taken to feed me with such valuable information, you can be shure I will make the best use of it. Godofredo PS: Dont leave town because if I get stuck in the middle of the road to get to where I intend to I'll knock on your door one more once asking for help. A-NO-NE Music wrote: Godofredo Romero / 05.2.23 / 06:12 PM wrote: The output I dream about has to be as realistic and professional as possible. I get disapointed because the sound I get - which is what Finale is giving me- is poor. Do you mean that I have to transfer my Finale files onto a sequencer program and twiddle them there? Which sequencers do you suggest? When I was working for Broadway shows, the only way I could possibly produce satisfactory results of imitating the real orchestra was, not to transfer Finale data to sequencer, but to play each line by hand into sequencer by reading the parts of Finale output. I use K2600Rs with real samples of real musicians instead of canned onboard samples. Yet I have to tweak the decay of the note by automating the volume data. Attack time of strings is another issue, too. My choice of sequencer is MOTU Digital Performer. I also have Logic but I simply couldn't think music with Lego blocks. A piece of advice on monitoring. Back when I switched from Alesis monitor to Generic active monitor with sub, I was shocked to hear some annoying high from sampled sound. My favorite samples were not that great after all, but I didn't know that till I got the better monitor. I had to change my way of mixing a lot. Granted, Generic has some hyped high, but my point is that knowing your monitor is the key. If your monitor and room is not reproducing the accurate sound, your music might sound only good in your room but no where else. P.S. Nope, I am not too happy with Generic anymore. I am planning to move to Dynaudio now. Mackie HR824 is another good one if you are looking for one :-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Browsers
Simon Troup wrote: Go to http://maps.google.com and browse a few maps. No support for Safari. They need to do more homework. No support for Europe. They really need to do some work. I feel like the anti-Columbus, scrolling off into the unknown ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Browsers
So, it's really only luck that it's supported in anything other than IE, as it's depending on functionality that's not a W3C standard. I looked at it in FireFox and it looked quite effective. I'm not overly enthusiastic about MS going off and developing their own standards and innovations again. -- Simon Troup Digital Music Art - Finale IRC channel server: irc.chatspike.net port: 6667 channel: #Finale - ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: new and improved... file info
From: shirling neueweise dedications could be entered in a new file info entry box. by the way, any other suggestions for new file info fields? - dedication - composition date (often different from year of copyright assignment in published scores) - instrumentation and text inserts? - total page numbers (to allow for text such as page n of m) - part (eg. for top of p.2-end of extracted parts, uses name of extracted group or staff) -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Christopher's suggestion of index numbers probably won't work. We have players capable of that at the radio station, but nobody's ever actually tried to use that feature! When you say won't work, do you mean that not all the cues will be audible? Or that (as I had mentioned) that CD players without index fucntions will see just fifteen or so large tracks instead of fifteen tracks divided into smaller index numbers? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
At 08:22 PM 2/25/05 -0500, Christopher Smith wrote: On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Christopher's suggestion of index numbers probably won't work. We have players capable of that at the radio station, but nobody's ever actually tried to use that feature! When you say won't work, do you mean that not all the cues will be audible? Or that (as I had mentioned) that CD players without index fucntions will see just fifteen or so large tracks instead of fifteen tracks divided into smaller index numbers? Yes, the latter. The index numbers appear on our radio station players and have a separate access control. But none of my many home machines do. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
On 25 Feb 2005 at 20:22, Christopher Smith wrote: On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Christopher's suggestion of index numbers probably won't work. We have players capable of that at the radio station, but nobody's ever actually tried to use that feature! When you say won't work, do you mean that not all the cues will be audible? Or that (as I had mentioned) that CD players without index fucntions will see just fifteen or so large tracks instead of fifteen tracks divided into smaller index numbers? Actually, even with the players that don't have index forward/back buttons, if you turn on track display, it should display the index numbers. It's remarkable to me how important the index numbers are on DVDs, and how completely underused they are on CDs. I guess it's because most CDs are of music short enough that index numbers are irrelevant -- it's only classical music where the pieces are long enough to merit it. In movies and TV shows on DVD, though, it's essential (and the whole basis for the scene breakdowns that most DVDs have). Is my DVD player unusual in being able to play audio CDs? If not, playing the CDs with indexes on them on a DVD player might give one the access needed. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
At 05:04 PM 2/25/05 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I actually want the functionality of measure text blocks improved, since at the moment there is only very limited use for them. I want to be able to assign a _measure_ attached text block to a position on the _page_. I know you pretty much dismissed what I was suggesting, but if you look at the image I created, you'll see that your requested functionality is there. In fact, by changing the droplist entry, you could change it from measure to page, or page to measure, and create a relative (to parent) or absolute (to page) position. (Or duplicate it and change the parameters of the new item.) (You also were worried about merging items creating long lists. No need to do that with the label-based approach, either.) Here's that image again: http://maltedmedia.com/photos/toolbar.gif Dennis PS: Anyone think this approach is worth discussing more? Even if Finale doesn't implement anything like it? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] iKey question
I think I understand. You want to program a shortcut to toggle page view/scroll view. There are two menu items, presumably you would like to have only one keyboard shortcut that would work for both, as it would in Finale natively, but you can't, since iKey can't have two shortcuts with the same keystroke. The only solution I can think of is to program two separate keyboard shortcuts. One to activate page view, and one to activate scroll view. Also, if you are using iKey 2, you should go back to iKey 1, it is much better. Hope this helps, steve On Feb 25, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I think you misunderstand: Both problems are with Finale, not with iKey. That's why I want to reprogram the command with iKey, because they aren't working properly as built in. Johannes Steve Gibons wrote: On Feb 25, 2005, at 9:31 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: There is two problems with this: Firstly, it is too slow (due to the reported keyboard commands delay) Are you using vers. 1 or 2 of iKey? and secondly, this keystroke doesn't work on a German keyboard when in the text tool (while in page view), as it is the same as for one of the justification commands. This problem is limited to German keyboards, I believe. Are you saying that the command to toggle page view is the same command as for justification? If that's the case you will have to program one shortcut for each menu, and they can't be the same. (limitation of iKey, which can't test for a checkmark in the menu) steve ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Browsers
On 2/25/05 7:22 PM, Simon Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No support for Safari. They need to do more homework. Actually, it worked fine for me in Safari. I wonder what the difference was ...? -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 25, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 05:04 PM 2/25/05 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I actually want the functionality of measure text blocks improved, since at the moment there is only very limited use for them. I want to be able to assign a _measure_ attached text block to a position on the _page_. I know you pretty much dismissed what I was suggesting, but if you look at the image I created, you'll see that your requested functionality is there. In fact, by changing the droplist entry, you could change it from measure to page, or page to measure, and create a relative (to parent) or absolute (to page) position. (Or duplicate it and change the parameters of the new item.) (You also were worried about merging items creating long lists. No need to do that with the label-based approach, either.) Here's that image again: http://maltedmedia.com/photos/toolbar.gif Dennis PS: Anyone think this approach is worth discussing more? Even if Finale doesn't implement anything like it? My main worry with that sort of thing (and even with jef's basic idea to merge the tools) is that to get a type of expression that is different in function requires more mouse clicks. As it stands now, the type and position of the mouse click determines the type of text expression (note- or measure-attached) while in the Text tool double-clicking and dragging automatically puts constraints on the size of the text box, which are things we need to set in both those cases. I have a similar kind of issue with TG Tools Smart Part extraction. Although it is amazingly powerful, flexible, intelligent and I know it pretty well now, sometimes it is quicker and less fussy to use Finale's built-in explosion tool. Although I appreciate the need for power and flexibility, I wouldn't want it at the expense of easy (meaning fewer keystrokes) implementation of the things I do much more often. Can you see a way to do that? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved... file info
On Feb 25, 2005, at 5:08 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: by the way, any other suggestions for new file info fields? - dedication - composition date (often different from year of copyright assignment in published scores) - instrumentation I'm still on 2k2, so I don't know if they've added any since then. My main piano-vocal template has three texts that would be handy as File Info fields. One is for lyricist (in addition to composer). The others are like subtitles to the Title. I have one that appears above the title that I use for the song cycle, opera, oratorio, etc., that the song comes from; and one below that I use for opus number, or other identification. It's not such a big deal to type these straight into the text boxes on the file, but they do seem like logical File Info fields to me. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! (Do NOT miss this!!!)
Jari Williamsson / 05.2.25 / 02:29 PM wrote: Comments? Your width is dynamic. If you give the page size static, the page scroll bar, instead of layer one, will be always there, no? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! AND a Simple Entry query
Jari, Thanks for keeping up this website and for adding helpful things like the new interviews. I read through most of Tyler Turner's interview (I didn't realize the escape key did that!) and I thought I'd put out a general question about Simple Entry to the list: How many reading this have been converted from *midi* speedy note entry to the new and improved simple note entry by Finale's recent push in that direction? When asked how to work around Simple Entry's current inability to insert notes (into existing measures with music) using the keyboard, here's what Tyler had to say: I actually don't come across situations very often where I need to insert notes. I more often need to insert measures. When I do need to insert notes, I just use the mouse (enlarging the music if necessary). Any time I lose correcting mistakes via insertion is more than made up by the fact that I no longer have to back-up to correct pitch or rhythm mistakes. I make those types of errors much more frequently, and Simple Entry is much better than Speedy for correcting them. Sort of reminds me of Sibelius' Why would you want to do that?! responses to how to questions. And is Simple really faster at editing than Speedy's enter key for pitches, or number keypad for rhythms? Now I can probably be categorized as an old dog shunning new tricks, and I haven't had the time to give the new Simple Note Entry a real chance, but I'm not sure the above quote really convinces me to try. Anybody out there a convert? Don Hart on 2/25/05 11:23 AM, Jari Williamsson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wrote: The Finale Productivity Tips site got some major additions today. [snip] The URL is: http://www.finaletips.nu/ Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
So, it's not possible to do this with MP3 with XML interface? Most schools have computers these days, no? :-) -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] how to get the best possible sound output
Godofredo Romero / 05.2.25 / 07:34 PM wrote: PS: Dont leave town because if I get stuck in the middle of the road to get to where I intend to I'll knock on your door one more once asking for help. I will be here :-) By the way, I just received March issue of Electric Musicians (not my favorite mag but I need to keep up with new synth/gear - never trust its review) and found an article of how to make sampled sound more realistic. I haven't read the article yet, but by skimming through it, I think it is talking about what I was saying about 'realistic playback'. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
David W. Fenton wrote: Actually, even with the players that don't have index forward/back buttons, if you turn on track display, it should display the index numbers. Huh? The cheap players I've mentioned earlier certainly dno't have that option. (And whoever suggested doing the whole thing by computer - yes it'd be nice, but it's far from every classroom that has the computer the speaker system linked together.) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! AND a Simple Entry query
Don Hart wrote: And is Simple really faster at editing than Speedy's enter key for pitches, or number keypad for rhythms? For MIDI entry it's roughly the same, without MIDI it's absolutely faster. Since you're typically set the rhythms before the pitch in Simple, there's no need for the Enter key in Simple Entry. Anybody out there a convert? I am, but I don't use a MIDI keyboard. BTW, I've modified the introduction text to Tyler's interview a little bit. He doesn't work at MM any more, and I don't think I was clear about that. Tyler has also posted a great text about Simple Entry configuration on the Tips site's forum: http://www.finaletips.nu/forum/ Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
