Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I can't argue with the fact that people seem to want it the way it is! I still don't understand why. If you want the pitch to line up with midi entry then a C score seems the way to go, rather than audio a tone or a fifth etc. wrong. I also mostly don't use a midi keyboard for entry, just the laptop. I think we are agreed that an option would be nice. Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 06:01, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.net wrote: I'd like that as an option too. I'd probably use that mode as my default. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 8 Jan 2011, at 12:43 AM, James Cooper wrote: It would make more sense and be more useful to me if I could play (and hear) the sounding pitch on the MIDI keyboard, and have the transposed pitch appear on the staff. --JMC On Friday, January 7, 2011, Aaron Sherber aa...@sherber.com wrote: On 1/7/2011 10:05 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I said from the outset that I agree it should be an option! Yes, I didn't mean for my post to sound like I was disagreeing with you -- I was just giving more reasons to agree. However, I personally find it impossible to use Finale without a MIDI keyboard and I suspect that the majority of Finale users do use one. Well, of course, one of the great strengths of Finale is the multitude of working habits it supports. I don't play piano well and don't own a MIDI keyboard, but the old Speedy idea of the three letter rows as three octaves made immediate sense to me and I've used it forever and with great speed. I've even dragged the [SpeedyKeys] section of my ini file through successive versions so that I could be untroubled by the remapping of the Speedy keys that MM imposed a few years back. (Hey, there's something else that would be great as an option: Let the user decide which Speedy behavior he wants.) When I'm inputting from another composer's transposed score, I tend to skirt the issue by turning off the volume on both the computer and the MIDI keyboard. Yes, but then you lose the advantage of using your ears to proofread as you go. Even with my horn parts sounding up a fifth from where they should be, I find this extra tool very useful. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- James Cooper Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter www.ModeZ.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I can't argue with the fact that people seem to want it the way it is! No one on this list wants to use it the way it is. Some argue that others may. All of us want a new option. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I thought that James and Darcy wanted to use it as is. Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 14:57, Raymond Horton wrote: On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I can't argue with the fact that people seem to want it the way it is! No one on this list wants to use it the way it is. Some argue that others may. All of us want a new option. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
Steve, I'm sure you meant that in the reverse. Pressing a C into an transposed alto sax part would sound as an Eb. You must have meant input A, hear C. Am I right? Because what you ask for is easily obtained by just turning on Display In Concert Pitch, then turning it off once input is done. Christopher On Fri Jan 7, at FridayJan 7 5:07 PM, Steve Parker wrote: It makes much more sense for me to work with a transposed score. If I input a C into an alto sax part I should hear an A in the correct octave as I input. Anything else is a bug. Steve P. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
On Sat Jan 8, at SaturdayJan 8 9:57 AM, Raymond Horton wrote: On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I can't argue with the fact that people seem to want it the way it is! No one on this list wants to use it the way it is. Some argue that others may. All of us want a new option. \ I want it the way it is! I love being able to enter either transposed parts (with the sound off, so I don't get screwed up) or concert pitch parts. None of this should be removed! I would like the option to hear concert pitch when I enter pitches on a transposed staff, however. If the keyboard makes an A note when I want to hear Finale's alto sax playing back C concert, I can just turn off the volume on my keyboard. This would be a great option. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
Hi Christopher, you are of course correct. I want to hear a C if I input an A.. Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 15:31, Christopher Smith wrote: Steve, I'm sure you meant that in the reverse. Pressing a C into an transposed alto sax part would sound as an Eb. You must have meant input A, hear C. Am I right? Because what you ask for is easily obtained by just turning on Display In Concert Pitch, then turning it off once input is done. Christopher On Fri Jan 7, at FridayJan 7 5:07 PM, Steve Parker wrote: It makes much more sense for me to work with a transposed score. If I input a C into an alto sax part I should hear an A in the correct octave as I input. Anything else is a bug. Steve P. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
So, all options would be good! I'll try to explain the problem as it manifests for me: Sometimes I'll enter say some violin, then switch to Bb Clarinet, enter a D written, hear a D concert, automatically delete the D written and replace with a C written, hear the correct pitch (concert C), move onto next note, realise that I'm an idiot, go back and put the D in.. I'm already transposing to write the D, in transposed brainmode the concert D I hear on entry is unrelated to anything and causes checking the stave and the transposition and a dozen other things. On my list of behavioral adjustments for Finale this is way down...! Top of the list would be the ability to drag anything I click on. Steve P. I want it the way it is! I love being able to enter either transposed parts (with the sound off, so I don't get screwed up) or concert pitch parts. None of this should be removed! I would like the option to hear concert pitch when I enter pitches on a transposed staff, however. If the keyboard makes an A note when I want to hear Finale's alto sax playing back C concert, I can just turn off the volume on my keyboard. This would be a great option. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
All of us want an OPTION on transposed Speedy entry. No one is asking to take the present behavior away. While on the subject of options, I'd like to make any options like this switchable: semi-permanently. What I'm thinking of is this: in the playback controls window, one has the option to Always start playback at the beginning, a set place, or at the leftmost bar showing on screen. I always want the latter, but I have to check it separately on every file. Is there a way to do that? If not, I wish there were. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: On Sat Jan 8, at SaturdayJan 8 9:57 AM, Raymond Horton wrote: On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I can't argue with the fact that people seem to want it the way it is! No one on this list wants to use it the way it is. Some argue that others may. All of us want a new option. \ I want it the way it is! I love being able to enter either transposed parts (with the sound off, so I don't get screwed up) or concert pitch parts. None of this should be removed! I would like the option to hear concert pitch when I enter pitches on a transposed staff, however. If the keyboard makes an A note when I want to hear Finale's alto sax playing back C concert, I can just turn off the volume on my keyboard. This would be a great option. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
On Sat Jan 8, at SaturdayJan 8 11:12 AM, Raymond Horton wrote: While on the subject of options, I'd like to make any options like this switchable: semi-permanently. What I'm thinking of is this: in the playback controls window, one has the option to Always start playback at the beginning, a set place, or at the leftmost bar showing on screen. I always want the latter, but I have to check it separately on every file. Is there a way to do that? If not, I wish there were. If you make this change to your default file, it will always be there. It's document-specific, like a whole wagonload of other settings. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
On Sat Jan 8, at SaturdayJan 8 11:12 AM, Raymond Horton wrote: All of us want an OPTION on transposed Speedy entry. No one is asking to take the present behavior away. I'm afraid that if I don't say it, it might be taken away, like so many other things I came to count on. MakeMusic says they don't take away functionality, but it has happened many times. The latest is resizing chord symbols. I used to be able to resize a chord symbol if I needed to (one or many) by attaching it to a hidden rest in another layer, then resizing the rest. The chord symbol would resize with it. Now that chords attach to beats (great innovation, BTW) I can't do that any more. The various built-in options for changing suffixes are next to useless, as the custom kerning of suffixes is not resized along with the fonts, and there is no way to preserve it. There is also not a convenient way to resize a chord name (the C in Cmaj7) while preserving the size of all the other chord names. Now I have to resort to a much kludgier technique of attaching the chord to a hidden STAFF and resizing THAT, then I have to make sure it is included in linked parts, adjust spacing, etc. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
What I was saying is not as it is now (to the best of my knowledge). While displaying the transposed parts (not C score), I would be interested in being able to play the SOUNDING pitch on the midi keyboard, not the transposed pitch, but have the transposed pitch appear on the screen. And I would like to hear the sounding pitch from the computer at that point, or if I were to enter it from the computer keyboard. --- James On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I thought that James and Darcy wanted to use it as is. Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 14:57, Raymond Horton wrote: On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I can't argue with the fact that people seem to want it the way it is! No one on this list wants to use it the way it is. Some argue that others may. All of us want a new option. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- James Cooper Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter www.ModeZ.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
This seems to be yet a different option required! To play an A, hear an A, but have a Bb Clarinet B appear. I would be happy with this for MIDI entry I think, but for laptop entry it would be kludgy (which is NOT what you're suggesting anyhow). Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 17:56, James Cooper wrote: What I was saying is not as it is now (to the best of my knowledge). While displaying the transposed parts (not C score), I would be interested in being able to play the SOUNDING pitch on the midi keyboard, not the transposed pitch, but have the transposed pitch appear on the screen. And I would like to hear the sounding pitch from the computer at that point, or if I were to enter it from the computer keyboard. --- James On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I thought that James and Darcy wanted to use it as is. Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 14:57, Raymond Horton wrote: On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I can't argue with the fact that people seem to want it the way it is! No one on this list wants to use it the way it is. Some argue that others may. All of us want a new option. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- James Cooper Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter www.ModeZ.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
Il 08/01/2011 2.45, Darcy James Argue ha scritto: Hi Steve, If your preferred behavior were the default, many people would also not understand why, when they play a C on their MIDI keyboard when inputting into an alto sax staff, Finale instead sounds an A. And, if they have the volume turned up on their keyboard, the keyboard still sounds a C. I understand why you want the feature you do and I think Finale should support it, but it should definitely not be the default, and the current behavior is not a bug. Meanwhile, it doesn't really seem like that big a deal to me to enter the music with Display Score in Concert Pitch turned on, then flip to transposed pitch after the note entry is finished. I don't have to transpose the instruments in my head to hear their tone qualities as I write -- it is just second nature for me to know what the range of each instrument sounds like in concert pitch as well as transposed pitch. But of course, that's the way I learned, so I'm sure it comes more naturally to me than it does to others. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org I agree with Darcy as I learned and always used to write transposing instruments parts in concert pitch as I want to see voicings as they sound (especially when writing for more than two or three horns), I mean I want to see chords as I would play them on a piano. Looking at director's scores with parts already transposed does not give me to me the real sound. My two cents, of course. Marcello ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I understand this but, for a lot of us, looking at scores with parts transposed one does imagine the real sound. Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 17:47, marcellon...@gmail.com wrote: Looking at director's scores with parts already transposed does not give me to me the real sound. My two cents, of course. Marcello ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
On 8 Jan 2011 at 11:12, Raymond Horton wrote: All of us want an OPTION on transposed Speedy entry. Er, no, all of us don't want the option. I couldn't care less as I never do the kinds of scores where it's an issue. I have no objection to the option being added, but I don't actually WANT the option. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
On 8 Jan 2011 at 9:57, Raymond Horton wrote: On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote: I can't argue with the fact that people seem to want it the way it is! No one on this list wants to use it the way it is. Some argue that others may. All of us want a new option. Er, not everyone on the list has weighed in. I have no problems with the way it works, as I don't have perfect pitch, so would only aurally proof what I'm hearing relatively to what's been sounded before. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to hear a C when the screen displays a Bb. The other thing that I don't think people are carefully thinking through is that when you're doing this, there are, potentially, two synthesizers involved playing the sound, your keyboard and whatever audio device you've got set up to play in Finale. The present Finale setup allows both to sound simultaneously without any conflict. If, however, Finale played the transposed pitch and the keyboard the notated pitch, then you'd have a conflict. Someone in the discussion suggested that Finale should tell the keyboard to play the notated pitch, but that involves sending MIDI transposition commands to the keyboard, and that just overly complicates things, seems to me. Personally, I just can't see why people get bent out of shape about this. If you've got perfect pitch, a transposed score is going to require some mental gymnastics already, and this is just another form of that, seems to me. I would vote for having Finale stay the way it is by default. If an option were added to have Speedy play the concert pitch or the transposed pitch, that would be OK, as long as it didn't screw up the behaviors that already work (e.g., the way anything other than clef can lead to entry errors when entering a Speedy frame). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. Patrick J. M. Sheehan Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy P. S. Music Host: The Saturday Blues on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) WNIJ.org 1-815-973-2317 (m) patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:djar...@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 9:38 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes Hi David, There is no software solution. The solution for me has been to become accustomed to doing all my note entry in concert pitch, then flipping to transposed pitch for everything else. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 3 Jan 2011, at 3:36 PM, David Froom wrote: Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
But when I write in a transposed score I can hear the tone quality of the instruments in that range without having to do a transposition as I write. On 7 January 2011 20:02, Patrick Sheehan patricksheehanmu...@gmail.comwrote: Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
It makes much more sense for me to work with a transposed score. If I input a C into an alto sax part I should hear an A in the correct octave as I input. Anything else is a bug. Steve P. On 7 Jan 2011, at 20:02, Patrick Sheehan wrote: Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. Patrick J. M. Sheehan Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy P. S. Music Host: The Saturday Blues on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) WNIJ.org 1-815-973-2317 (m) patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:djar...@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 9:38 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes Hi David, There is no software solution. The solution for me has been to become accustomed to doing all my note entry in concert pitch, then flipping to transposed pitch for everything else. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 3 Jan 2011, at 3:36 PM, David Froom wrote: Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I'm with you there. I like knowing what the instrument is doing. I acquired that skill at great pains in my late teens and early twenties working with a pencil. However, Finale should sound the correct concert pitch when you enter a transposed note, instead of sounding the written pitch as if it was concert pitch. That little flaw makes it impossible for me to enter transposed scores with the sound up. Christopher On Fri Jan 7, at FridayJan 7 3:26 PM, Lawrence Yates wrote: But when I write in a transposed score I can hear the tone quality of the instruments in that range without having to do a transposition as I write. On 7 January 2011 20:02, Patrick Sheehan patricksheehanmu...@gmail.comwrote: Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I understand wanting what you want as an option, but the default functionality is absolutely not a bug. Holding down a C on a MIDI keyboard that generates its own sound causes that device to sound a C. Having Finale also sound an A simultaneously is going to be very confusing for most users. This feature is something only advanced users (and I suspect, users who spent years writing out transposed scores by hand) would understand and want. I use transposed scores as well, but would never want the behavior you suggest, and that may be a function of me having never really used pencil and paper much (I've been using Finale since I was 19). I believe in Sibelius this feature is an option, but it is turned off by default. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 7 Jan 2011, at 5:07 PM, Steve Parker wrote: It makes much more sense for me to work with a transposed score. If I input a C into an alto sax part I should hear an A in the correct octave as I input. Anything else is a bug. Steve P. On 7 Jan 2011, at 20:02, Patrick Sheehan wrote: Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. Patrick J. M. Sheehan Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy P. S. Music Host: The Saturday Blues on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) WNIJ.org 1-815-973-2317 (m) patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:djar...@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 9:38 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes Hi David, There is no software solution. The solution for me has been to become accustomed to doing all my note entry in concert pitch, then flipping to transposed pitch for everything else. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 3 Jan 2011, at 3:36 PM, David Froom wrote: Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
It doesn't seem advanced to me to hear as you enter the same pitch as you will hear on playback. I can understand a non-transposing score and I can understand a transposing score sounding as above. I just can't see any use in a transposing score that sounds irrelevant pitches as you enter, which is Finale's behaviour. Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 00:10, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.net wrote: I understand wanting what you want as an option, but the default functionality is absolutely not a bug. Holding down a C on a MIDI keyboard that generates its own sound causes that device to sound a C. Having Finale also sound an A simultaneously is going to be very confusing for most users. This feature is something only advanced users (and I suspect, users who spent years writing out transposed scores by hand) would understand and want. I use transposed scores as well, but would never want the behavior you suggest, and that may be a function of me having never really used pencil and paper much (I've been using Finale since I was 19). I believe in Sibelius this feature is an option, but it is turned off by default. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 7 Jan 2011, at 5:07 PM, Steve Parker wrote: It makes much more sense for me to work with a transposed score. If I input a C into an alto sax part I should hear an A in the correct octave as I input. Anything else is a bug. Steve P. On 7 Jan 2011, at 20:02, Patrick Sheehan wrote: Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. Patrick J. M. Sheehan Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy P. S. Music Host: The Saturday Blues on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) WNIJ.org 1-815-973-2317 (m) patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:djar...@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 9:38 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes Hi David, There is no software solution. The solution for me has been to become accustomed to doing all my note entry in concert pitch, then flipping to transposed pitch for everything else. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 3 Jan 2011, at 3:36 PM, David Froom wrote: Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
Hi Steve, If your preferred behavior were the default, many people would also not understand why, when they play a C on their MIDI keyboard when inputting into an alto sax staff, Finale instead sounds an A. And, if they have the volume turned up on their keyboard, the keyboard still sounds a C. I understand why you want the feature you do and I think Finale should support it, but it should definitely not be the default, and the current behavior is not a bug. Meanwhile, it doesn't really seem like that big a deal to me to enter the music with Display Score in Concert Pitch turned on, then flip to transposed pitch after the note entry is finished. I don't have to transpose the instruments in my head to hear their tone qualities as I write -- it is just second nature for me to know what the range of each instrument sounds like in concert pitch as well as transposed pitch. But of course, that's the way I learned, so I'm sure it comes more naturally to me than it does to others. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 7 Jan 2011, at 8:03 PM, Steve Parker wrote: It doesn't seem advanced to me to hear as you enter the same pitch as you will hear on playback. I can understand a non-transposing score and I can understand a transposing score sounding as above. I just can't see any use in a transposing score that sounds irrelevant pitches as you enter, which is Finale's behaviour. Steve P. On 8 Jan 2011, at 00:10, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.net wrote: I understand wanting what you want as an option, but the default functionality is absolutely not a bug. Holding down a C on a MIDI keyboard that generates its own sound causes that device to sound a C. Having Finale also sound an A simultaneously is going to be very confusing for most users. This feature is something only advanced users (and I suspect, users who spent years writing out transposed scores by hand) would understand and want. I use transposed scores as well, but would never want the behavior you suggest, and that may be a function of me having never really used pencil and paper much (I've been using Finale since I was 19). I believe in Sibelius this feature is an option, but it is turned off by default. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 7 Jan 2011, at 5:07 PM, Steve Parker wrote: It makes much more sense for me to work with a transposed score. If I input a C into an alto sax part I should hear an A in the correct octave as I input. Anything else is a bug. Steve P. On 7 Jan 2011, at 20:02, Patrick Sheehan wrote: Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. Patrick J. M. Sheehan Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy P. S. Music Host: The Saturday Blues on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) WNIJ.org 1-815-973-2317 (m) patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:djar...@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 9:38 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes Hi David, There is no software solution. The solution for me has been to become accustomed to doing all my note entry in concert pitch, then flipping to transposed pitch for everything else. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 3 Jan 2011, at 3:36 PM, David Froom wrote: Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
The answer seems simple enough - make it an option. I've used Finale for 14 years, and it still drives me nuts. I entered some notes wrong today because of it. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:10 PM, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.netwrote: I understand wanting what you want as an option, but the default functionality is absolutely not a bug. Holding down a C on a MIDI keyboard that generates its own sound causes that device to sound a C. Having Finale also sound an A simultaneously is going to be very confusing for most users. This feature is something only advanced users (and I suspect, users who spent years writing out transposed scores by hand) would understand and want. I use transposed scores as well, but would never want the behavior you suggest, and that may be a function of me having never really used pencil and paper much (I've been using Finale since I was 19). I believe in Sibelius this feature is an option, but it is turned off by default. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 7 Jan 2011, at 5:07 PM, Steve Parker wrote: It makes much more sense for me to work with a transposed score. If I input a C into an alto sax part I should hear an A in the correct octave as I input. Anything else is a bug. Steve P. On 7 Jan 2011, at 20:02, Patrick Sheehan wrote: Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. Patrick J. M. Sheehan Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy P. S. Music Host: The Saturday Blues on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) WNIJ.org 1-815-973-2317 (m) patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:djar...@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 9:38 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes Hi David, There is no software solution. The solution for me has been to become accustomed to doing all my note entry in concert pitch, then flipping to transposed pitch for everything else. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 3 Jan 2011, at 3:36 PM, David Froom wrote: Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
On 1/7/2011 8:45 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: If your preferred behavior were the default, many people would also not understand why, when they play a C on their MIDI keyboard when inputting into an alto sax staff, Finale instead sounds an A. And, if they have the volume turned up on their keyboard, the keyboard still sounds a C. Darcy, think about another variation on this. I always use Speedy with my computer keyboard, not a MIDI keyboard. When I'm entering notes into a transposed French horn staff, Finale continues to play them back as though the staff were not transposed, or as though I'd entered a concert pitch on the keyboard. That is, if I enter a C on the treble staff, which should sound first-space F, Finale plays back that concert C. Now, you could say that this is just being consistent with the behavior with a MIDI keyboard, but I haven't at all given a MIDI instruction -- I've given a positioning instruction, using the letter keys or maybe even the arrow keys. I've told Finale I'm going to place a note in the third space of the staff, and Finale responds by drawing the note there but playing a note which is a fifth higher. I understand why you want the feature you do and I think Finale should support it, but it should definitely not be the default, and the current behavior is not a bug. I think you could make a reasonable case for either one being the default, but I absolutely think that Finale should support both behaviors Meanwhile, it doesn't really seem like that big a deal to me to enter the music with Display Score in Concert Pitch turned on, then flip to transposed pitch after the note entry is finished. Well, it's kind of a big deal if what you're doing (like most of my work) is copying from a composer's transposed score. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
We need to be clear about terminology here. A bug is behavior that is at variance with the design of the system. The current keyboard behavior is almost certainly the intended design of the system, so by definition it is not a bug. But that doesn't meant that an option wouldn't be a nice enhancement. I too wish there were an option. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
Hi Aaron, I said from the outset that I agree it should be an option! And certainly in a setup without a MIDI keyboard, turning on that option makes tremendous sense. However, I personally find it impossible to use Finale without a MIDI keyboard and I suspect that the majority of Finale users do use one. When I'm inputting from another composer's transposed score, I tend to skirt the issue by turning off the volume on both the computer and the MIDI keyboard. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 7 Jan 2011, at 9:31 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: On 1/7/2011 8:45 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: If your preferred behavior were the default, many people would also not understand why, when they play a C on their MIDI keyboard when inputting into an alto sax staff, Finale instead sounds an A. And, if they have the volume turned up on their keyboard, the keyboard still sounds a C. Darcy, think about another variation on this. I always use Speedy with my computer keyboard, not a MIDI keyboard. When I'm entering notes into a transposed French horn staff, Finale continues to play them back as though the staff were not transposed, or as though I'd entered a concert pitch on the keyboard. That is, if I enter a C on the treble staff, which should sound first-space F, Finale plays back that concert C. Now, you could say that this is just being consistent with the behavior with a MIDI keyboard, but I haven't at all given a MIDI instruction -- I've given a positioning instruction, using the letter keys or maybe even the arrow keys. I've told Finale I'm going to place a note in the third space of the staff, and Finale responds by drawing the note there but playing a note which is a fifth higher. I understand why you want the feature you do and I think Finale should support it, but it should definitely not be the default, and the current behavior is not a bug. I think you could make a reasonable case for either one being the default, but I absolutely think that Finale should support both behaviors Meanwhile, it doesn't really seem like that big a deal to me to enter the music with Display Score in Concert Pitch turned on, then flip to transposed pitch after the note entry is finished. Well, it's kind of a big deal if what you're doing (like most of my work) is copying from a composer's transposed score. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
On 1/7/2011 10:05 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I said from the outset that I agree it should be an option! Yes, I didn't mean for my post to sound like I was disagreeing with you -- I was just giving more reasons to agree. However, I personally find it impossible to use Finale without a MIDI keyboard and I suspect that the majority of Finale users do use one. Well, of course, one of the great strengths of Finale is the multitude of working habits it supports. I don't play piano well and don't own a MIDI keyboard, but the old Speedy idea of the three letter rows as three octaves made immediate sense to me and I've used it forever and with great speed. I've even dragged the [SpeedyKeys] section of my ini file through successive versions so that I could be untroubled by the remapping of the Speedy keys that MM imposed a few years back. (Hey, there's something else that would be great as an option: Let the user decide which Speedy behavior he wants.) When I'm inputting from another composer's transposed score, I tend to skirt the issue by turning off the volume on both the computer and the MIDI keyboard. Yes, but then you lose the advantage of using your ears to proofread as you go. Even with my horn parts sounding up a fifth from where they should be, I find this extra tool very useful. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
My feeling has always been that people who insist on Concert Pitch scores are for the most part pianists, while those who are more comfortable with transposed scores are instrumentalists who have been player and/or writing for transposing instruments for a long time and prefer to see the tone quality as they write. Or have been reading and studying orchestral scores since before junior high school, as I did. There's no need to disparage either one. Each has its advantages, and each has its disadvantages, like a lot of things in life. I'm finding it more intuitive to do my entry in concert pitch, but I always toggle to transposed score so I can see the actual sounds. John At 10:07 PM + 1/7/11, Steve Parker wrote: It makes much more sense for me to work with a transposed score. If I input a C into an alto sax part I should hear an A in the correct octave as I input. Anything else is a bug. Steve P. On 7 Jan 2011, at 20:02, Patrick Sheehan wrote: Working with a C score is like none other. Transposed scores screw up my eye's ear. I always work in C scores. I suggest you give it a try. This way you can see exactly where each instrumental line is being played in real pitch. Patrick J. M. Sheehan Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy P. S. Music Host: The Saturday Blues on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) WNIJ.org 1-815-973-2317 (m) patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:djar...@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 9:38 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes Hi David, There is no software solution. The solution for me has been to become accustomed to doing all my note entry in concert pitch, then flipping to transposed pitch for everything else. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 3 Jan 2011, at 3:36 PM, David Froom wrote: Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
It would make more sense and be more useful to me if I could play (and hear) the sounding pitch on the MIDI keyboard, and have the transposed pitch appear on the staff. --JMC On Friday, January 7, 2011, Aaron Sherber aa...@sherber.com wrote: On 1/7/2011 10:05 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I said from the outset that I agree it should be an option! Yes, I didn't mean for my post to sound like I was disagreeing with you -- I was just giving more reasons to agree. However, I personally find it impossible to use Finale without a MIDI keyboard and I suspect that the majority of Finale users do use one. Well, of course, one of the great strengths of Finale is the multitude of working habits it supports. I don't play piano well and don't own a MIDI keyboard, but the old Speedy idea of the three letter rows as three octaves made immediate sense to me and I've used it forever and with great speed. I've even dragged the [SpeedyKeys] section of my ini file through successive versions so that I could be untroubled by the remapping of the Speedy keys that MM imposed a few years back. (Hey, there's something else that would be great as an option: Let the user decide which Speedy behavior he wants.) When I'm inputting from another composer's transposed score, I tend to skirt the issue by turning off the volume on both the computer and the MIDI keyboard. Yes, but then you lose the advantage of using your ears to proofread as you go. Even with my horn parts sounding up a fifth from where they should be, I find this extra tool very useful. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- James Cooper Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter www.ModeZ.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I'd like that as an option too. I'd probably use that mode as my default. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 8 Jan 2011, at 12:43 AM, James Cooper wrote: It would make more sense and be more useful to me if I could play (and hear) the sounding pitch on the MIDI keyboard, and have the transposed pitch appear on the staff. --JMC On Friday, January 7, 2011, Aaron Sherber aa...@sherber.com wrote: On 1/7/2011 10:05 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I said from the outset that I agree it should be an option! Yes, I didn't mean for my post to sound like I was disagreeing with you -- I was just giving more reasons to agree. However, I personally find it impossible to use Finale without a MIDI keyboard and I suspect that the majority of Finale users do use one. Well, of course, one of the great strengths of Finale is the multitude of working habits it supports. I don't play piano well and don't own a MIDI keyboard, but the old Speedy idea of the three letter rows as three octaves made immediate sense to me and I've used it forever and with great speed. I've even dragged the [SpeedyKeys] section of my ini file through successive versions so that I could be untroubled by the remapping of the Speedy keys that MM imposed a few years back. (Hey, there's something else that would be great as an option: Let the user decide which Speedy behavior he wants.) When I'm inputting from another composer's transposed score, I tend to skirt the issue by turning off the volume on both the computer and the MIDI keyboard. Yes, but then you lose the advantage of using your ears to proofread as you go. Even with my horn parts sounding up a fifth from where they should be, I find this extra tool very useful. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- James Cooper Composer, classical guitarist, songwriter www.ModeZ.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I have whinged about this in the past - it's a ** nuisance which means I have to work from a score in C because the sounds Finale plays as I enter notes in a transposing score put me off. I wish it were fixable. If you find a way, please, please tell me. Cheers, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I have the same problem, and no solution. On 3 Jan 2011, at 22:44, Lawrence Yates wrote: I have whinged about this in the past - it's a ** nuisance which means I have to work from a score in C because the sounds Finale plays as I enter notes in a transposing score put me off. I wish it were fixable. If you find a way, please, please tell me. Cheers, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
I work in a similar setup to yours, and I've been living with entered notes sounding untransposed for years. Thankfully I don't have perfect pitch, or it might be crippling instead of an annoyance. No way to fix that I know of; switching to untransposed score to enter notes has its own set of problems. -Lee Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic http://www.leeactor.com Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
It is a pain! Not crippling but a source of confusion if you take your eye off the ball. I can (kind of) understand it with MIDI keyboard entry, but it behaves the same way using the laptop keyboard. Steve P. On 3 Jan 2011, at 23:02, Lee Actor wrote: I work in a similar setup to yours, and I've been living with entered notes sounding untransposed for years. Thankfully I don't have perfect pitch, or it might be crippling instead of an annoyance. No way to fix that I know of; switching to untransposed score to enter notes has its own set of problems. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback in transposed scores while entering notes
Hi David, There is no software solution. The solution for me has been to become accustomed to doing all my note entry in concert pitch, then flipping to transposed pitch for everything else. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 3 Jan 2011, at 3:36 PM, David Froom wrote: Hello all, I have a question related to the discussion about transposed scores (scores with or without key signatures, but where instruments are notated as the players see them, so if Bb clarinet has a written C, it sounds as Bb). I routinely write and think in transposed scores, and write music without key signatures. So, I use the chromatic transposition setting in the staff setting, as many have been discussing. It looks right and it plays back right. No issues. If I'm copying something that has key signatures, I let the setup wizard take care of it, and once again, it looks and plays back fine. But ... here is what really bothers me. As I'm entering the notes in speedy, Finale plays them for me in C. For example, I'm writing a piece right now for alto saxophone. If I want to write a C, which sounds as an Eb, I play the C on my midi keyboard, and I hear a C as I'm entering the note. If I exit speedy and play back, I hear the Eb. This is annoying, especially while editing and changing things directly in Finale, to hear the untransposed note while entering it. It also slows me down, as I have to transpose twice (from what I hear and play to what I want to hear, and then from what I see to what I want to hear). Does anyone know if this is fixable? I want to hear what the player will produce, not only during playback, but as I'm entering the pitch. Is there a setting for that? Thanks, David ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
