Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
but you won't be able to write it all in one language if you choose, nor will you be able to extend it how you see fit. Sure you will. They are including a browser engine which I assume will be gecko. This means they will support a plugin architecture. Its not the same thing as neko, but on the other hand it will easily support lots of existing compiled code. Hank ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
I assume will be gecko Hopefully your're right. I think this is a key point that Adobe shouldn't wait to disclose. Because at this point is something that they should alredy have decided. Having said that, it will be a huge surprise for me if they allow us freely adding our own plugins. Hopefully again you're right and I'm wrong. But why should they keep this in secret? Let's see. Cheers, On 9/2/06, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but you won't be able to write it all in one language if you choose, nor will you be able to extend it how you see fit. Sure you will. They are including a browser engine which I assume will be gecko. This means they will support a plugin architecture. Its not the same thing as neko, but on the other hand it will easily support lots of existing compiled code. Hank ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- Juan Delgado - Zárate http://www.zarate.tv ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
On 9/2/06, Zárate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having said that, it will be a huge surprise for me if they allow us freely adding our own plugins. Why not? They did with Director..? Ian ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Zárate wrote: a company with a large reputation Yeah, I'd even say a *huge* reputation but what reputation? Do we start talking about wmode? Shared fonts? Problems with Stage.with/Stage.height? MovieclipLoader? Components? We all understand these issues, but they are still irrelevant. We're developers, and the people we sell to are not. They don't care about these things one jot. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
On 9/1/06, Cliff Rowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We all understand these issues, but they are still irrelevant. We're developers, and the people we sell to are not. They don't care about these things one jot. Cliff, you are working for the wrong people. ;-) I've been there; luckily the people I work for now do listen to my suggestions, and as a respected developer, my opinions hold weight. My boss actually is already playing around with SWHX to see if it does fit our next product's needs. If you are selling directly to clients as a freelancer or agency, it's the same thing, if they respect you, then your opinion on the technology that they should choose will matter. On another note, one advantage that SWHX has right now, is that it's released. All we can do with Apollo at the moment is think about what we could make with it. With that said, I'm with Edwin on this, I can't wait to try out Apollo too. Anyway, have a great weekend. -Chris ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Chris Allen wrote: If you are selling directly to clients as a freelancer or agency, it's the same thing, if they respect you, then your opinion on the technology that they should choose will matter. Not the same thing at all. Respect is something you have to earn over time with a new client. Fact remains, they still want the one with the big name ;-) ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
And anyhow, this is still beyond the original point - which was that SWHX will almost certainly move away from compatibility with AS3/ActionScript and closer to HaXe/Screenweaver unity ;) ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Please note SWHX has full support for AS3 and AS2. It is using Neko/HaXe as a platform to host it's functionality. There is no tight coupling between the UI .swf and the HaXe backend that favours HaXe dev above ActionScript dev. Your swf can be written using Flash 8/9/Flex 2. The fact version 1.0 has full support for AS2/AS3 as well as HaXe doesn't support the trend you suggest. In contrary, it is showing SWHX is a open platform that is offering target developers choice. -Thomas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff Rowley Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 4:07 PM To: Flashcoders mailing list Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0 And anyhow, this is still beyond the original point - which was that SWHX will almost certainly move away from compatibility with AS3/ActionScript and closer to HaXe/Screenweaver unity ;) ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
I do understand that. Currently this is not a problem, but as AS3/FP9 move forward on their own inevitable path, will SWHX play catchup or will it concentrate on its own thing? I suspect the latter. On 9/2/06, Thomas Wester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please note SWHX has full support for AS3 and AS2. It is using Neko/HaXe as a platform to host it's functionality. There is no tight coupling between the UI .swf and the HaXe backend that favours HaXe dev above ActionScript dev. Your swf can be written using Flash 8/9/Flex 2. The fact version 1.0 has full support for AS2/AS3 as well as HaXe doesn't support the trend you suggest. In contrary, it is showing SWHX is a open platform that is offering target developers choice. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
I totally agree Thomas. I don't think that it is limited in the way that Cliff is describing. In fact they explicitly say it's not. Nor will it move away from AS3 as it's targeting the same virtual machine in the Flash player. Cliff seems to have already made up his mind on the subject of what his clients want, so more than likely his clients will have to wait for Apollo. I think the real advantage of this new thing that Nicolas and Edwin have created is that it can be so flexible. You can write the UI using Flex Builder 2, AS3 and MXML and then compile that to a SWF, wrap it in Screenweaver and use haXe via Neko to access a database or the file system on a user's computer. Yes Apollo will allow us to do this too in its own way (maybe not database access as someone pointed out), and adds PDF and HTML support, but you won't be able to write it all in one language if you choose, nor will you be able to extend it how you see fit. On 9/1/06, Thomas Wester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please note SWHX has full support for AS3 and AS2. It is using Neko/HaXe as a platform to host it's functionality. There is no tight coupling between the UI .swf and the HaXe backend that favours HaXe dev above ActionScript dev. Your swf can be written using Flash 8/9/Flex 2. The fact version 1.0 has full support for AS2/AS3 as well as HaXe doesn't support the trend you suggest. In contrary, it is showing SWHX is a open platform that is offering target developers choice. -Thomas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
So HX is the successor to v4? Shame for me, since I'll be saying bye bye to Screenweaver and waiting for Apollo, but good luck in your ventures - I think there's a lot of value in it. On 8/31/06, Edwin van Rijkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, We are happy to announce that Screenweaver HX - version 1.0 is now available! Screenweaver HX is an (open source) extension to the haXe programming language (http://www.haxe.org) for creating Flash interfaced desktop applications. GUIs can be made using either haXe or Flash/Flex (both AS2 and AS3 are supported). Screenweaver HX is fully OS-X/Windows cross-platform and works with both Flash 8 and 9. On OS-X, it runs native on both PPC and Intel Macs. For more information and installation instructions, browse to: http://haxe.org/swhx Enjoy! Edwin Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
I hope you're not giving up because you think you have to use haXe for all of your apps: On top of 'standard' haXe-to-haXe communications, Screenweaver HX features a Flash library that allows communications between a haXe written back-end and a Flash IDE developed front-end. Both AS2 and AS3 are supported, so it is possible to create GUIs using Flash 9 Alpha IDE and Flex 2. And I've heard there are plans in the works to make a full-featured haXe backend such that you can develop full applications without having to touch haXe at all. -David R On 8/31/06, Cliff Rowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So HX is the successor to v4? Shame for me, since I'll be saying bye bye to Screenweaver and waiting for Apollo, but good luck in your ventures - I think there's a lot of value in it. On 8/31/06, Edwin van Rijkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, We are happy to announce that Screenweaver HX - version 1.0 is now available! Screenweaver HX is an (open source) extension to the haXe programming language (http://www.haxe.org) for creating Flash interfaced desktop applications. GUIs can be made using either haXe or Flash/Flex (both AS2 and AS3 are supported). Screenweaver HX is fully OS-X/Windows cross-platform and works with both Flash 8 and 9. On OS-X, it runs native on both PPC and Intel Macs. For more information and installation instructions, browse to: http://haxe.org/swhx Enjoy! Edwin Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
As long as it's fully supported and not just bolted on the side, that's fine by me. However I would hedge my bets that HX will slowly move away as Apollo steps in. I'll certainly use it in the meantime, but I suspect the gravity of the HaXe/Screenweaver partnership will win out overall (and probably should). On 8/31/06, David Rorex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope you're not giving up because you think you have to use haXe for all of your apps: On top of 'standard' haXe-to-haXe communications, Screenweaver HX features a Flash library that allows communications between a haXe written back-end and a Flash IDE developed front-end. Both AS2 and AS3 are supported, so it is possible to create GUIs using Flash 9 Alpha IDE and Flex 2. And I've heard there are plans in the works to make a full-featured haXe backend such that you can develop full applications without having to touch haXe at all. -David R On 8/31/06, Cliff Rowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So HX is the successor to v4? Shame for me, since I'll be saying bye bye to Screenweaver and waiting for Apollo, but good luck in your ventures - I think there's a lot of value in it. On 8/31/06, Edwin van Rijkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, We are happy to announce that Screenweaver HX - version 1.0 is now available! Screenweaver HX is an (open source) extension to the haXe programming language (http://www.haxe.org) for creating Flash interfaced desktop applications. GUIs can be made using either haXe or Flash/Flex (both AS2 and AS3 are supported). Screenweaver HX is fully OS-X/Windows cross-platform and works with both Flash 8 and 9. On OS-X, it runs native on both PPC and Intel Macs. For more information and installation instructions, browse to: http://haxe.org/swhx Enjoy! Edwin Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
As long as it's fully supported and not just bolted on the side, that's fine by me. However I would hedge my bets that HX will slowly move away as Apollo steps in. I'll certainly use it in the meantime, but I suspect the gravity of the HaXe/Screenweaver partnership will win out overall (and probably should). Several important differences between Screenweaver HX and Apollo : - size : SWHX takes 450 KB. Apollo is expected to be in the 5-9 MB range - extensibility : SWHX is extensible with custom-made C libraries. Apollo is not - open source : SWHX is open source. If you get a bug, simply report it and it should be fixed in terms of days. If it's critical for you, you'll not have to wait the next big release since you can recompile the sources. - API : Apollo 1.0 does not have databases planned. From SWHX you can already access a big number of haXe APIs, including SQLite an MySQL databases. Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Guys, This looks brilliant! Can't wait to have a play with it. Thanks for all your hard work. Cheers, Ian On 8/31/06, Edwin van Rijkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, We are happy to announce that Screenweaver HX - version 1.0 is now available! Screenweaver HX is an (open source) extension to the haXe programming language (http://www.haxe.org) for creating Flash interfaced desktop applications. GUIs can be made using either haXe or Flash/Flex (both AS2 and AS3 are supported). Screenweaver HX is fully OS-X/Windows cross-platform and works with both Flash 8 and 9. On OS-X, it runs native on both PPC and Intel Macs. For more information and installation instructions, browse to: http://haxe.org/swhx Enjoy! Edwin Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Nicolas Cannasse wrote: Several important differences between Screenweaver HX and Apollo : - size : SWHX takes 450 KB. Apollo is expected to be in the 5-9 MB range Sure, but Apollo is a global runtime isn't it? - extensibility : SWHX is extensible with custom-made C libraries. Apollo is not How does that work with cross platform applications? - open source : SWHX is open source. If you get a bug, simply report it and it should be fixed in terms of days. If it's critical for you, you'll not have to wait the next big release since you can recompile the sources. With respect, were I to present a paying client with a choice between a platform developed by a known entity and one developed by a couple of guys in their spare time, 9/10 they're going to pick the former. Fortunately the Screenweaver name has gained awareness and is closing that gap slowly. - API : Apollo 1.0 does not have databases planned. From SWHX you can already access a big number of haXe APIs, including SQLite an MySQL databases. The edges start to blur for me here.. I can't think of many scenarios where I'd write an application these days that accessed a database directly. SQLite is an advantage, especially for offline support, but aside from that I'll stick to a service architecture. I don't know how we got into this, because I think SWHX is a great idea with oodles of potential, it's just not right for me in the long run ;-) ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Several important differences between Screenweaver HX and Apollo : - size : SWHX takes 450 KB. Apollo is expected to be in the 5-9 MB range Sure, but Apollo is a global runtime isn't it? What do you exactly mean by a global runtime ? It's possible that once installed, you might not have to install it again. But 5-9 MB is quite big for the user the first time he want to download your application. - extensibility : SWHX is extensible with custom-made C libraries. Apollo is not How does that work with cross platform applications? It's up to you. If you want to support some System features in a crossplatform way, you can do it. Existing haXe libraries for example are working the same on Windows / OSX PPC+Intel (universal binaries) and Linux. But that's for extensibility purposes. There's already a good number of available libraries to use directly. Unless less you need some extras, you will be able to stick to haXe for programming your System Layer. - open source : SWHX is open source. If you get a bug, simply report it and it should be fixed in terms of days. If it's critical for you, you'll not have to wait the next big release since you can recompile the sources. With respect, were I to present a paying client with a choice between a platform developed by a known entity and one developed by a couple of guys in their spare time, 9/10 they're going to pick the former. And do you think this is a good thing ? :) When you present a choice to a paying client, you should emphasis with the choice you think is superior technicaly. Hopefuly they are companies that are looking in the details and not only at branding and marketing. - API : Apollo 1.0 does not have databases planned. From SWHX you can already access a big number of haXe APIs, including SQLite an MySQL databases. The edges start to blur for me here.. I can't think of many scenarios where I'd write an application these days that accessed a database directly. SQLite is an advantage, especially for offline support, but aside from that I'll stick to a service architecture. A lot of Desktop apps are using somehow an embeded database. Having direct access to Sqlite is nice. You don't NEED to use it if you don't want so better to have it than not :) I don't know how we got into this, because I think SWHX is a great idea with oodles of potential, it's just not right for me in the long run ;-) Not exactly sure why, except for the Brand ? but you admited before that ScreenWeaver has already gained some reputation of its own... Or is this just unfounded discrimination ? ;) Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
When you present a choice to a paying client, you should emphasis with the choice you think is superior technicaly. Hopefuly they are companies that are looking in the details and not only at branding and marketing. It's not simply about marketing or branding. It's about accountability. With an open-source project there is no accountability. A corporation may use open-source software, but it will be purchased through a company that can offer support and more importantly accountability. So when the corporation's database gets turfed for whatever reason they have someone they can blame - someone who will fix the problem. Derek Vadneau - Original Message - From: Nicolas Cannasse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flashcoders mailing list flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0 Several important differences between Screenweaver HX and Apollo : - size : SWHX takes 450 KB. Apollo is expected to be in the 5-9 MB range Sure, but Apollo is a global runtime isn't it? What do you exactly mean by a global runtime ? It's possible that once installed, you might not have to install it again. But 5-9 MB is quite big for the user the first time he want to download your application. - extensibility : SWHX is extensible with custom-made C libraries. Apollo is not How does that work with cross platform applications? It's up to you. If you want to support some System features in a crossplatform way, you can do it. Existing haXe libraries for example are working the same on Windows / OSX PPC+Intel (universal binaries) and Linux. But that's for extensibility purposes. There's already a good number of available libraries to use directly. Unless less you need some extras, you will be able to stick to haXe for programming your System Layer. - open source : SWHX is open source. If you get a bug, simply report it and it should be fixed in terms of days. If it's critical for you, you'll not have to wait the next big release since you can recompile the sources. With respect, were I to present a paying client with a choice between a platform developed by a known entity and one developed by a couple of guys in their spare time, 9/10 they're going to pick the former. And do you think this is a good thing ? :) When you present a choice to a paying client, you should emphasis with the choice you think is superior technicaly. Hopefuly they are companies that are looking in the details and not only at branding and marketing. - API : Apollo 1.0 does not have databases planned. From SWHX you can already access a big number of haXe APIs, including SQLite an MySQL databases. The edges start to blur for me here.. I can't think of many scenarios where I'd write an application these days that accessed a database directly. SQLite is an advantage, especially for offline support, but aside from that I'll stick to a service architecture. A lot of Desktop apps are using somehow an embeded database. Having direct access to Sqlite is nice. You don't NEED to use it if you don't want so better to have it than not :) I don't know how we got into this, because I think SWHX is a great idea with oodles of potential, it's just not right for me in the long run ;-) Not exactly sure why, except for the Brand ? but you admited before that ScreenWeaver has already gained some reputation of its own... Or is this just unfounded discrimination ? ;) Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
It's not simply about marketing or branding. It's about accountability. With an open-source project there is no accountability. A corporation may use open-source software, but it will be purchased through a company that can offer support and more importantly accountability. So when the corporation's database gets turfed for whatever reason they have someone they can blame - someone who will fix the problem. Derek Vadneau I would say that it depends on the corporation policy. There are two possible approaches there : a) spend a lot of money to get some support on closed source software in the case something goes wrong. b) use open source software and IF something goes wrong, pay someone to fix it for you. If nothing goes wrong, guess which one is cheaper ? :) And if something goes wrong, then in all closed source softwares, EULA prevent all kind of accountability anyway because software companies don't want to get used for lost data - even if it was a bug in their application. You'll of course get some kind of support, and hopefully your bug will take a few weeks to get fixed, but in general when someone ask for a bug fix in open source software, it gets fixed in a matter of hours. Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
And if something goes wrong, then in all closed source softwares, EULA prevent all kind of accountability anyway because software companies don't want to get used for lost data - even if it was a bug in their application. You'll of course get some kind of support, and hopefully your bug will take a few weeks to get fixed, but in general when someone ask for a bug fix in open source software, it gets fixed in a matter of hours. I dont want to argue the merits here because whether Nicolas is right here about how quickly open source projects fix bugs, it is irrelevant. The reality is that the larger the company, the greater the liklihood that they only want to buy from another large company. This is why the whole market has moved from b2b to b2c. Consumers dont care about who sold them stuff. Big companies generally care deeply. This means that even well funded startups have had a hard time selling to big companies in the last few years. This is why startups are now almost exclusively focusing on b2c. Because individuals have the freedom to think the way Nicolas would like people to think. Unfortunately corporate sales is an entirely different, and much more painful process. Regards Hank ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
I think, to be honest, that you're just a bit of an idealist. Which is good, but we have to live and work in the real world where we don't always get to make the decisions. Nicolas Cannasse wrote: If nothing goes wrong, guess which one is cheaper ? :) ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Nicolas Cannasse wrote: What do you exactly mean by a global runtime ? It's possible that once installed, you might not have to install it again. But 5-9 MB is quite big for the user the first time he want to download your application. Evidently from your reply you know what I mean by a global runtime ;-) It's up to you. If you want to support some System features in a crossplatform way, you can do it. Existing haXe libraries for example are working the same on Windows / OSX PPC+Intel (universal binaries) and Linux. That so far is the biggest benefit I can see from using SWHX over Apollo. And do you think this is a good thing ? :) When you present a choice to a paying client, you should emphasis with the choice you think is superior technicaly. Hopefuly they are companies that are looking in the details and not only at branding and marketing. It doesn't matter whether I think it's a good thing or not when it's not my call to make. If I recommend an open source project developed by a couple of guys over a project developed by a company with a large reputation and the time and money to throw at it, and something DOES go wrong.. Who gets it in the ear? You or me? A lot of Desktop apps are using somehow an embeded database. Having direct access to Sqlite is nice. You don't NEED to use it if you don't want so better to have it than not :) Yes it's nice, and sometimes beneficial, and sometimes nescessary - but not worth throwing away other benefits for if you're not even going to use it. Not exactly sure why, except for the Brand ? but you admited before that ScreenWeaver has already gained some reputation of its own... Or is this just unfounded discrimination ? ;) It's true, Screenweaver has gained some reputation. So now 2/10 non-developers might have heard of it. Brand, workflow, trust and reputation, confidence just to name a few. And perhaps the fact that Macrobe can take criticism without crying discrimination ;-) ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Not exactly sure why, except for the Brand ? but you admited before that ScreenWeaver has already gained some reputation of its own... Or is this just unfounded discrimination ? ;) It's true, Screenweaver has gained some reputation. So now 2/10 non-developers might have heard of it. Brand, workflow, trust and reputation, confidence just to name a few. And perhaps the fact that Macrobe can take criticism without crying discrimination ;-) Well I think they must sometimes think it very LOUD when seeing all the press coverage AJAX is getting ;) Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
hank williams wrote: The reality is that the larger the company, the greater the liklihood that they only want to buy from another large company. This is why the whole market has moved from b2b to b2c. Consumers dont care about who sold them stuff. Big companies generally care deeply. This means that even well funded startups have had a hard time selling to big companies in the last few years. This is why startups are now almost exclusively focusing on b2c. Because individuals have the freedom to think the way Nicolas would like people to think. Unfortunately corporate sales is an entirely different, and much more painful process. Right on Hank, that's exactly it. As individuals we do have that freedom, which is why I praised SWHX from the start. Unfortunately the main points I brought up initially were lost in the banter.. I haven't actually rejected SWHX, or given up on it, I just can't see any reason to use it commercially over Apollo. The fact is I'll probably use it a lot for my own little projects (in fact I've already started playing with it). As I said before, I can see a *lot* of strength in the Screenweaver/HaXe partnership. I just can't see compatibility without HaXe being a focal point in the future. Eventually Apollo and SWHX will drift apart, and due to the nature of my work I will always err toward Macrobe. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Nicolas Cannasse wrote: Well I think they must sometimes think it very LOUD when seeing all the press coverage AJAX is getting ;) I don't get your point.. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
There's truth in what you guys are saying from a practical stance, I think. But, it is equally true that there are successful open source projects, that do get used by commercial companies for production purposes. This is true for all sorts of projects, but especially so for application development languages and tools. Although probably having started out small, these projects succeeded in growing larger over time. I presume as a result of a) the product being very good, and b) because of enthusiast advocating the software even though it meant swimming up-stream, in some regards. Give SWHX a spin to see if you like how it works. If it's not your cup of tea, leave it be - but if you like it, just try to use it whenever you get the chance. Edwin Cliff Rowley wrote: hank williams wrote: The reality is that the larger the company, the greater the liklihood that they only want to buy from another large company. This is why the whole market has moved from b2b to b2c. Consumers dont care about who sold them stuff. Big companies generally care deeply. This means that even well funded startups have had a hard time selling to big companies in the last few years. This is why startups are now almost exclusively focusing on b2c. Because individuals have the freedom to think the way Nicolas would like people to think. Unfortunately corporate sales is an entirely different, and much more painful process. Right on Hank, that's exactly it. As individuals we do have that freedom, which is why I praised SWHX from the start. Unfortunately the main points I brought up initially were lost in the banter.. I haven't actually rejected SWHX, or given up on it, I just can't see any reason to use it commercially over Apollo. The fact is I'll probably use it a lot for my own little projects (in fact I've already started playing with it). As I said before, I can see a *lot* of strength in the Screenweaver/HaXe partnership. I just can't see compatibility without HaXe being a focal point in the future. Eventually Apollo and SWHX will drift apart, and due to the nature of my work I will always err toward Macrobe. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
This is of course true. I am excited about swhx for my application. My only point was that it is perfectly reasonable for someone to think that his clients or customers would prefer something else because of the large company mentality. But I do think lots of users will not have any political issues with swhx and will make great use of it. Regards Hank On 8/31/06, Edwin van Rijkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's truth in what you guys are saying from a practical stance, I think. But, it is equally true that there are successful open source projects, that do get used by commercial companies for production purposes. This is true for all sorts of projects, but especially so for application development languages and tools. Although probably having started out small, these projects succeeded in growing larger over time. I presume as a result of a) the product being very good, and b) because of enthusiast advocating the software even though it meant swimming up-stream, in some regards. Give SWHX a spin to see if you like how it works. If it's not your cup of tea, leave it be - but if you like it, just try to use it whenever you get the chance. Edwin Cliff Rowley wrote: hank williams wrote: The reality is that the larger the company, the greater the liklihood that they only want to buy from another large company. This is why the whole market has moved from b2b to b2c. Consumers dont care about who sold them stuff. Big companies generally care deeply. This means that even well funded startups have had a hard time selling to big companies in the last few years. This is why startups are now almost exclusively focusing on b2c. Because individuals have the freedom to think the way Nicolas would like people to think. Unfortunately corporate sales is an entirely different, and much more painful process. Right on Hank, that's exactly it. As individuals we do have that freedom, which is why I praised SWHX from the start. Unfortunately the main points I brought up initially were lost in the banter.. I haven't actually rejected SWHX, or given up on it, I just can't see any reason to use it commercially over Apollo. The fact is I'll probably use it a lot for my own little projects (in fact I've already started playing with it). As I said before, I can see a *lot* of strength in the Screenweaver/HaXe partnership. I just can't see compatibility without HaXe being a focal point in the future. Eventually Apollo and SWHX will drift apart, and due to the nature of my work I will always err toward Macrobe. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
hank williams wrote: This is of course true. I am excited about swhx for my application. My only point was that it is perfectly reasonable for someone to think that his clients or customers would prefer something else because of the large company mentality. But I do think lots of users will not have any political issues with swhx and will make great use of it. Regards Hank Sure, I can see that line of reasoning. One can debate over whether developers or customers are wrong or right on finding using open source software unattractive, and all its pro's and con's, but I think no one has been able to answer that question conclusively. If SWHX proofs to be a strong concept and gets enough helping hands to make it evolve over time, it will become increasingly easier to 'sell it to customers', though. So, I'm hoping that will happen. Meanwhile, I'm already content that together with Nicolas I've taken another step forward in what I've been trying to achieve with Screenweaver for over half a decade now: Providing a framework for creating serious Flash interfaced desktop applications. In that regard, I'm also very excited about Apollo developments: Can't wait to see it! Best, Edwin ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
On 9/1/06, Edwin van Rijkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure, I can see that line of reasoning. One can debate over whether developers or customers are wrong or right on finding using open source software unattractive, and all its pro's and con's, but I think no one has been able to answer that question conclusively. That's because there is no answer ;-) It's entirely down to each individual, each client, each setup.. so many factors that deem whether a technology is appropriate. In my case, it's not :-) If SWHX proofs to be a strong concept and gets enough helping hands to make it evolve over time, it will become increasingly easier to 'sell it to customers', though. So, I'm hoping that will happen. I think it will, but as I said, I think it will happen in it's own right - as the SW/HX combination - not as an extension to the existing Flash/Flex platform. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
Cliff Rowley wrote: On 9/1/06, Edwin van Rijkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure, I can see that line of reasoning. One can debate over whether developers or customers are wrong or right on finding using open source software unattractive, and all its pro's and con's, but I think no one has been able to answer that question conclusively. That's because there is no answer ;-) It's entirely down to each individual, each client, each setup.. so many factors that deem whether a technology is appropriate. In my case, it's not :-) Agreed. If SWHX proofs to be a strong concept and gets enough helping hands to make it evolve over time, it will become increasingly easier to 'sell it to customers', though. So, I'm hoping that will happen. I think it will, but as I said, I think it will happen in it's own right - as the SW/HX combination - not as an extension to the existing Flash/Flex platform. I agree that's the most likely scenario. It wouldn't be too hard though, to code a set of Flash APIs that talk with a fixed haXe back-end. This would result in a tool set that could follow up Screenweaver 3 in terms of functionality, where all application coding is done in ActionsScript. A while back I wrote down some ideas on that at: http://www.screenweaver.org/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=42Itemid=9 (at the Screenweaver Future header) I expect Adobe will be doing a very good on Apollo, though, so the demand for such a Screenweaver version could be really low or otherwise perhaps very short-lived. Cheers. Edwin ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] ANN: Screenweaver HX - Version 1.0
On 9/1/06, Edwin van Rijkom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it will, but as I said, I think it will happen in it's own right - as the SW/HX combination - not as an extension to the existing Flash/Flex platform. I agree that's the most likely scenario. I'm glad my point is finally being recognised :) I expect Adobe will be doing a very good on Apollo, though, so the demand for such a Screenweaver version could be really low or otherwise perhaps very short-lived. I think there's room for everyone, which is why I think the SWHX combination is good, and will carry both technologies forward. In fact, the more I think about it the more I think that both technologies may have faded into the hobby oblivion without a partnership. I do forsee a time where HaXe developer (or SWHX developer) will be an industry term, however major or minor that becomes. Good luck! ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
