> Thanks. Dang! So much has changed. I've got to keep up
> with the development stuff a bit better, I guess.
Curt, you obviously assumed too much intelligence on the part of the
developers (including me). Since we don't have enough time to act on
the incremental description of the changeover, a
Tony Peden writes:
> Coming from one who lives in a place that is overcast 9 months out of
> the year, I must point out that there is a solution to that problem ...
> IFR.
David comments:
> Surprisingly, I find this much harder when I am above the overcast
> layer because I *can* see: I tend to l
> On Thu, 2002-09-19 at 06:52, Alex Perry wrote:
> > The last ten degrees _are_ mostly drag, but that's what you need
> > (a) to get a steep final in rugged terrain
> > (b) for fast descents in emergency management
> > (c) for a relatively quick flare for short
Curt changed the username password ... to force people to read the web page.
> Am I supposed to be getting fgfs-0.9 and simgear-0.3? SimGear-0.3 won't
> let me get it! ;-)
>
> ==
>
> (Logging in to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
> CVS password:
> Fatal error, aborting.
> cvs: no
> I don't really object to that -- except that I wonder how many folks
> will be able to really tell the difference. Surely, even in the real
> thing, the differences are fairly subtle. I'm also not so sure that we
> have the fidelity that making that distinction implies.
I recommend the split,
> Does the R have a 40 deg flap detent?
My understanding is that the 40 deg flap setting (over the whole family)
is actually related to max gross weight. If you want the 40 deg then you
will be limited to 2300 lb; if you make do with 30 deg ... you can have more.
However, as the interior gets
> > The stable tree is for all intents and purposes the last released
> > version. For SimGear and FlightGear you have to maintain 2 trees if
> > you want access to the stable or dev versions. The basepackage CVS you
> > can access either, but not concurrently.
>
> ..it is also possible to use an
> James A. Treacy writes:
> > This brings up something I've been wondering for a while. It appears we
> > can add roads and rivers. Why, then, isn't this the default?
David replies:
> Unfortunately, to get roads, railroads, and rivers, we have to give up
> some quality in the terrain mesh. You
As a complete non-Windows person, I'd be tempted to first check that you
really do still have OpenGL running ... by running one of the demos.
>
> Hello,
>
> I just installed an Appian Hurrican duel-head card and flightgear no longer
> works. When I run a script (which works with other graphics
I can ping the server, but an attempt to "cvs update" hangs indefinitely.
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> Simon Fowler writes:
> > Aside from that nitpick, dynamic objects really rock. Particularly
> > the trees - they're far more realistic than I would have thought
> > three polygons and a couple of textures could look ;-)
> Thanks. The trees are actually billboards -- each one is a
> single-si
> Certainly it'd be outside the limits of fair use to turn those into 3d
> instrument textures for Flight Gear.
True, if you don't ask them. You an always ask them, and they might say yes.
They might let you make up a set of FGFS instrument files that are a 1-for-1
correspondence with their prod
> http://virtualcities.ida.org/virtualcities/virtualcities.html
Finally! I asked them nicely to make them available for people like us.
I think it would be a good idea to get involved, convert one of their
cities into TerraGear format and make it available to both them and us.
Why ?
* It promo
> I was at home hacking on FlightGear that day, I would have joined
> you. :-)
It occurs to me that we could do with having the developer location database
tied in with the waypoint system so I can dump a proposed flightplan into it
and see whether I'm going to be passing or arriving in the vicin
> Anyone got any ideas on this one (make for flightgear itself):
Builds nicely for me. Sorry. Sounds like a compiler version thing.
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> What algorithms are commonly used to get and keep the CDI centered in
> a simple AP? It should be easy enough to start with the rate and
> direction of CDI deviation from center.
I'm tempted to say that there isn't a standard we can simply use;
I've used some very different ones even in a smal
> Got Simgear made and installed and then discovered that wasn't the same
> as the "base package" which I promply tracked down and got the cvs for.
> It seems to be missing the INSTALL file, so I am currently working on
> that as I can.
The base package doesn't need anything doing to it; just st
> Try the attatched patch - it works for me(tm). If it works for you,
> I'll see about sending it to the plib list . . .
It fixed it for me too. SimGear build is now in progress.
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> The localizer beam width is designed to produce +/- 2 dots deviation at +/-
> 700 feet deviation from centerline at the runway threshold. The localizer
> scale sensitivity in degrees per dot is therefore a function of the distance
> from the threshold to the localizer antenna.
I agree with the
> I'm currently applying a range limit of 12,000m (about 6nm) to the
> lights (the range is from the middle of each runway). Personally, I
> suspect that that might be far too generous, but I don't want to make
> the range too short for very long runways. What does everyone else
> think?
All th
> Of course if you actually went up to see the 3d fireworks effect, then
> to be completely realistic you should expect an F-16 on your butt
> after about 5-10 minutes.
If you don't go for the big ones, such as Washington DC, you'll find plenty
of general aviation pilots circling and watching the
Curt asks:
> Ok, so within flightgear, given a 'true' altitude, how can I compute
> the correct flight-level / pressure-altitude for display on the
> transponder?
The simple answer is that you ask the static port for the air pressure,
which in turn will ask the environmental module what the local
by Rick Lehrbaum -- Executive Editor, LinuxDevices.com
GUESS WHO'S COMING TO LINUXWORLD?
As if to fulfill Malcolm Dean's prophecy (preceding story), word
spread around Linux and Open Source oriented websites like wildfire
this week that Microsoft Corp. will be an exhibitor a
> On Wed, 2002-07-03 at 14:04, Gene Buckle wrote:
> > > The other one I've learned from real experience (as a passenger). If
> > > while you are looking a little up and to the rear to check flap
> > > status, if you also notice a big plume of something that looks a lot
> > > like smoke coming off
> If someone can supply a core ECMAScript implementation that is small
> and easy to embed, then we should jump on it; otherwise, the evil of
> holding back FlightGear development indefinitely might outweigh even
> the evil of using Scheme.
One of the nice things about LISP (and I assume Scheme)
> Alex Perry writes:
> > (c) Remember that it reports pressure altitude and not any other altitude.
> Is this true? I thought it was slaved to the altimeter. If so,
> please scratch the last part of my previous posting.
No. Your mode C hardware shares the static port with the
> I've been looking at the Bendix/King KT 70/71 (transponder) manual and
> plan to start implimenting this instrument. Other than tuning in a
> freq and having it report flight level is there anything else that I
> need to think about? We don't have much in the way of ATC at the
> moment so I'm
> I think I've found the problem. I grab the base package using rsync, and
> that version doesn't seem to be up-to-date. Even the new crop textures
> aren't included yet.
It's on my machine, but John Check had a cron job that pushd-updated it.
John, could you see what the script does and let me
> Jim Wilson writes:
> > > That and we should probably make the pilot be able to salute.
> > Now that would be easy, but he needs an arm first!
> Thumbs up first, please.
> > Might be fun to do an eject too :-)
> He'll need his own FDM, then.
Someone was thinking of doing a parachute, at one
> Grep, schmep. It can't come close to actually printing out
> a copy of the source code and looking through it manually.
> I mean, if you want accuracy, what can beat a pair of
> human eyes and some bright white inkjet paper? I've even
> got "grep" aliased to print all .cpp files in draft mod
> I agree that closer is better, but you have left something out of the
> equation: if the engine failure is sudden (what we're assuming here, I
> think), *and* you react quickly, you have an extra 25-45kt of airspeed
> that you can trade for altitude before you get down to Vglide at 65
> KIAS. T
> Andy Ross writes:
> > I'm not sure I understand. A given stick position corresponds very
> > closely to a given angle of attack.
Nope, only for a given airspeed. The balance between tailplane and main
wing, for a given elevator position, is speed dependent. Thus phugoids.
> > If you chan
> I've updated the --wind=DIR@SPEED option to allow a range for DIR or
> SPEED. For example, winds from 180 degrees at 10 knots gusting 15
> knots would be
>
> --wind=180@10:15
>
> I haven't had the chance to add variable wind direction to
> FGEnvironment yet, but the option will be accepted:
Taking the practical viewpoint of what is actually in the avionics ...
Any OBS, HSI or similar instrument:
Receives an analog signal that indicates the needle position. Our FGFS
instrument works the same way; an analog angle is available as a property.
VOR receivers:
Emits an analog signal that
Reminder:
In Karlsruhe (Germany) at LinuxTag
at midday 12:00 for one hour in room R2.05 in the StadtHalle of the
conference center near the Dorint Hotel, where the conference streams are located.
After 1pm, we have to leave the room and continue our discussions elsewhere.
Plan to be there
ting for the pitching to start
Yup, I do the same, but only for a fraction of a second.
Immediately after hitting the flap switch, I reach for the trim wheel.
> -- perhaps
> Alex Perry can let us know whether this is common for C172 pilots or
> I'
I just went round to the SuSE booth and looked on a 8.0 demo computer.
The packaged version is 0.7.8 which we released last summer, a year ago.
Although they were mildly embarrassed when I pointed this out to them,
I still think it would be worth submitting a formal request that
the future SuSE 8.
From: Melchior FRANZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> OK, let's sort the items and add a few:
- Old-fashioned overall appearance
Yep.
Our photographic fidelity is deprecated wrt functional representation.
2001-era flight simulators have inherited a lot of the visual artistry
of the 3D combat video games
> Do we have any plans to host an opensource booth at the linux world
> expo in SFO aug 12-15. I don't think we've discussed this one yet?
I haven't heard of anybody making plans for a booth at LWCE-SF.
I will not be attending - I have other plans this summer.
__
It has a symbol table so that the debugger would be useful.
You can "strip" it, but it should have no impact on execution speed.
> Something I've been wondering about. The program that comes with the
> downloadable binary is about 4 megs. The program that is built from cvs
> is about 56 megs.
> > This may or may not have anything to do with the jet code, but with
> > the 747-yasim, I cannot slow the plane below about 280kt in level
> > flight at 3000ft ASL with throttles at minimum and full flaps, which
> > makes the plane rather hard to land...
> Legally you shouldn't be up to 280kt a
> We (the two Cameron's) have already done some FDM work on a Piper
> Cherokee PA-28-180. I have a pretty ugly looking 3-view, but I can send
Slightly off topic. There are a lot of places where we can get 3-view
sets with a scale for pretty much any aircraft. It occurs to me that
it should be
> > Just something to file away ... big jets should have a climb mode in
> > which the power is regulated to max climb by the autothrottles and speed
> > is held with the pitch control.
>
> Filed it away. But not sure of the purpose of this mode.
It's more efficient as follows ...
The autothro
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 01:57:09 -0500 Jonathan Polley wrote
> >When you state your concerns about the FAA, I assume that you are talking
> >about avionics software, probably DO-178B level C or higher.
FlightGear is a combination of an aircraft FDM, a GIS database and a 3D GUI.
When placed into
Andy:
One thing to consider is whether the autopilot is optimizing for
the correct solution to the equations. There are always two solutions,
one slower with higher drag and the other faster with lower drag.
Depending on altitude and power, one of these can be below stall speed.
Near the
> > Hrmph. This is getting just too weird. What (exactly) is your
> > platform? I'm trying to get an fgfs compiled with 2.95.2 and having
> > some difficulty due to glibc 2.2 compatibility issues. I may need to
> > install a new distribution to make this work.
>
> Yeah that's a major pain in
> I've been thinking that we should start a whole new source tree,
> src/Instrumentation/, to include the current steam and radio modules
> together with GPS modules, weather radar, and anything else we happen
> to come up with. Perhaps even autopilot could fit in here. The
> environment module
> Actually, I think that it starts at a very low altitude, like -
> meters -- that's why it reads a maximum climb. We need to find a way
> to delay initialization of the steam module until after the FDM is set
> up.
Many of the other parts of the Sim get informed when a reset happens,
either
> seems to be reporting bogus values (it sits at the maximum climb rate
> stop).
Depending on which VSI you're using and where you initialize for altitude,
this might be real. The simulator initializes with sea level pressure.
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> Strange compiler errors are often the sign of faulty hardware or
> overclocking.
Or, when recompiling FGFS from scratch, of insufficient CPU cooling.
A friend had trouble with his PC because the power supply was poor.
> > I swear the most mysterious things happen on my computer. You may not
>
I should point out that the alpha for the prop doesn't work on my 16 bit
card (G200) presumably because of limited number of bits per pixel.
The section of the prop near the hub becomes completely opaque.
I think the animation is great on better cards, so we shouldn't change it,
but can we have a
> Is anyone else seeing this?
Works fine for me on Debian/Woody.
> ../../src/FDM/YASim/libYASim.a(FGFDM.o): In function `logstream_base
> type_info function':
> /usr/local/cvs/FlightGear/src/FDM/YASim/FGFDM.hpp(.text+0xae): undefined
> reference to `yasim::Airplane::setElevatorControl(int)'
_
> You started up the engines, firewalled the throttle, let the RPMs
> stablize, released the brakes, and the aircraft pitched *up*???
> That's clearly unphysical.
Why ? The nose pitches down with power and brake application.
So, releasing the brakes makes the nose pitch up.
> > Another issue is that, on landing with the dc3-yasim at a rather
> > high speed (so that the angle of attack is near 0), the tail
> > instantly falls onto the runway, but the aircraft nevertheless
> > doesn't take off again, although the angle of attack just increased
> > rapidly. Although I h
> Andy Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Try being lighter on the controls, and try a set of rudder pedals if
> > you haven't already. I honestly haven't had any serious difficulties
> > maneuvering the plane.
> >
>
> hard to have that kind of a setup at work :-( "almost unflyable" was
> a
> Alex Perry writes:
> >How about we have a "missing model" in the same way as we have a
> >"missing texture" ? A ten meter cube with that texture on each side ?
>
> I remember a blue and yellow glider
I thought that was the "default model&qu
How about we have a "missing model" in the same way as we have a
"missing texture" ? A ten meter cube with that texture on each side ?
> I get a "Fatal error" when trying to use some aircraft because I don't
> have the 3D model installed. For example, I don't have the Harrier or
> the Beech99 m
> > > I definitely agree. It's a violation of almost every netiquette rule,
> > > that is concerned to virus-like behaviour or bandwith respect of
> > > others.
> >
> > I disagree. Almost _every_ new Microsoft-based program checks its home
> > website, sometimes for logging and sometimes anonym
> I definitely agree. It's a violation of almost every netiquette rule,
> that is concerned to virus-like behaviour or bandwith respect of
> others.
I disagree. Almost _every_ new Microsoft-based program checks its home
website, sometimes for logging and sometimes anonymous as in this case.
It
Tony comments:
> OK, ha, ha, funny, funny. Joke's over.
For you maybe ... 8-)
> I really think that grabbing files off the network without explicit
> permission from the user is a bad idea, even when it's all in good fun.
1. Putting the magic download into the base package CVS would have en
> > Xlib: extension "GLXUnsupportedPrivateRequest" missing on display ":0.0".
> > GLUT: Fatal Error in fgfs: visual with necessary capabilities not found.
Hah! Try running something that uses full texturing such as "gloss";
the differences in private requests between GL implementations generall
> Do you retry now with plib, SimGear and FlightGear in sync.
> What are your actual error messages ?
Further on that topic, I've got a script "redoing" that I need about
once every couple of months. It does CVS with explicit -APd
against the six trees, builds simgear from clean with reinstall,
> > 5. cirrus
> ( cirrus is not specified in METAR )
CI in this area we have a lot of BKN CI 200
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1. Is the scripting now capable of repeatably controlling a flight,
so that I can tweak and practice it before using it for demonstration ?
2. What are our collective capabilities for making a video tape recording
of a flight that has been stored as a python script ahead of time ?
3.
> I read that it's how they counted on their fingers. Using your thumb,
> touch the top third (near the tip) of each finger for 1-4, the middle
> third (between the two knuckles) of each finger for 5-8, and the
> bottom third for 9-12. I'm not sure how they combined the second hand
> with that,
My fault partially, sorry.
> a while ago I asked about a plotting tool of which I had seen on this
> mailing list that it would be integrated into FlightGear. I saw in the
> latest news messages that the logging was updated in version 0.7.10 of FG
> but I can't find anything that looks like a plo
> Cameron, your latest e-mail message is time-stamped with:
> Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:41:01 -0500
> which means "09:41 on the 17th, local time, which is 5 hours behind UTC",
> which is about a day into the future.
Don;t worry about it; Cameron just likes to have his messages at the top of
you
Christian said:
> (Note: degrees are still valid as they are *internationally* well known.
> slugs aren't)
Yes they are ... each country's definition depends on local climate and fauna,
ranging from one gram, through one ounce to as high as one pound. I don't
know of a slug being one kilogram bu
> Has anyone had any success interfacing FG with a GPS? I have been
> attempting to interface FG with my garmin handheld. However, after reading
> the first line of serial data, FG crashes. The first line of data is read
> and parsed correctly but FG crashes before the second line of data is rea
> > Lack of time to take out a week to fly to Germany and back - lack of
> > money to buy airline tickets and a week of hotel bills.
> Probably lack of money to buy the hotel bill; AFAIK does anyone who
> gives a speech travel for free (ask Alex).
Yes.
> I hope you can do it next year. So I have
> Sebastian Ude wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 May 2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Perry) wrote:
> > > Due to a lack of interest, I am _NOT_ organizing a shared booth for PLIB
> > > users.
> > Are you sure that it is lack of interest ? I'd say what we are talking
> &
> Now, it *does* happen that we know the locations of an awful lot of
> NDB, VOR, and ILS transmitters world-wide, and we could easily add
> those to the scenery.
I should point out that a lot of pilots (who I now copy) often navigate
by pilotage (i.e. visually looking at the scenery) using the V
> > > In real life, I've been having a hard time with my landings on the
> > > circuit ('suck' might be the most appropriate term).
> > (1) Ask to have a night lesson. The air will be a lot smoother and
> > you can practice things like roundout and ground effect
> > operations.
> ..early
> > fgfs --wind=270@15 --prop:/environment/params/gust-wind-speed-kt=25
I can't try it right now; the 3D panel is broken for me and the 2D view
environment sets the clip planes to be unusable for 16 bit depth buffering
when I get close to ground effect. Disconcerting ... I'll try later again.
> In real life, I've been having a hard time with my landings on the
> circuit ('suck' might be the most appropriate term).
Minor suggestions ...
(1) Ask to have a night lesson. The air will be a lot smoother and
you can practice things like roundout and ground effect operations.
(2) Wait a
> > A while ago, Alex suggested that we would be better modelling the
> > 172M/N/P (I think), since those are more common. In retrospect, I
> > agree, for a slightly different reason -- I don't think that we have
> > access to the right numbers for a 172R.
Actually, I suggest we fork the C172 in
Make sure they realize that ...
- while it's nice providing source for Linux and binaries for Windows,
- what users _really_ want is the "base" package file
- and what users _really_ _really_ want, after the two above, is the local
scenery files from the server for the local country region.
> O
> Any volenteers?
> http://www.cs.unc.edu/~harrism/clouds/RTCRDownload.html
I remember that someone posted a link to a forward scattering method
about six months ago, dunno whether it was this one. It seemed to be
unfeasible for use on single computers in an ad-hoc fashion. The
integral process
> Actually I would call this a FGFS problem in that FGFS is
> asking for a character that is not present in the PLib font
> that is being used. The PLib Font system does not claim
> to be a universal font renderer in fact just the oposite in that
> it gives you only the characters that it can
> > > For example, say I'm a long-time X-Plane user and just can't live with
> > > the default FG key bindings. I could create my very own
> > > ~/.fgfs/keyboard.xml and completely override the master file.
> >
> > That's exactly why the keymappings are broken out of the preferences.xml
> > You
ou can have two keyfiles and switch between them by changing one line.
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Perry) [2002.04.27 21:55]:
> I locally have a chproducts.xml file which is used inside the preferences.xml
> file instead of the standard joystick.xml file, so that CVS doesn't keep
&g
That's a thought. Let me put some comments in there first though ...
> On Friday 26 April 2002 10:50 pm, Alex Perry wrote:
> > You should have a look at the bindings in your joystick.xml file
> > as there a bunch of defaults in there that you probably won't like.
You should have a look at the bindings in your joystick.xml file
as there a bunch of defaults in there that you probably won't like.
I locally have a chproducts.xml file which is used inside the preferences.xml
file instead of the standard joystick.xml file, so that CVS doesn't keep
whingeing abo
> Yep. We already do that. But the empty-weight, unloaded CG
> doesn't change.
Surely, when I switch from the VFR panel to the IFR panel,
the FDM adds a POINT_MASS in the appropriate place ... ? No ?
8-)
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> For screen shots - if you don't mind my showing off a bit ;-)
> Night time - http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/u3anight.png
Wow ... what did you make the tires of ... Tritium ?
8-)
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> Alex Perry writes:
> > Are you going to do an interior view ?
> Do flying saucers have windows?
Most of the ones in films do. You might want to pick your favorite film
and use that as the model, whatever it is. There's a good chance someone
else has already done the 3D mo
Especially in multiplayer mode ...
> Alex Perry writes:
> > > (make sure you switch to external view), to see the result of 90
> > > seconds' work in Blender.
> >
> > Are you going to do an interior view ?
>
> David,
>
> Here after doing a f
> (make sure you switch to external view), to see the result of 90
> seconds' work in Blender.
Are you going to do an interior view ?
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> > These patches are against the 1.5 CVS, not the 1.4 release, so there
> > may be problems. Here they are:
> >
> > http://www.megginson.com/flightsim/plib-smoothing.dif
> > http://www.megginson.com/flightsim/plib-transparency.dif
> >
> I get the 1.4.2, execute
>'patch plib-smoothing.d
Yes, but there is more to it than
(a) an implied 0 for the third coordinate
(b) an arbitrary choice for dimensional units
because the 3D model uses the z buffer for overlay, while the panel
uses drawing order. In order for the panel to be drawn correctly
by the 3D SSG tree, we have to imply non-
> > Many multihead capable video cards will only do 3D acceleration on the
> main
> > head. If the instrument panel is placed on the second head, it had
> better
> > use 2D GL calls. Therefore, the panel has to intrinsically be a 2D
> database.
>
> I had heard this before, so I was expecting di
I should point out that ...
Many multihead capable video cards will only do 3D acceleration on the main
head. If the instrument panel is placed on the second head, it had better
use 2D GL calls. Therefore, the panel has to intrinsically be a 2D database.
2D objects require less textures becaus
> I managed to sort out the problems and get things to compile. I was
> forced to remove my altered versions of fg_init.cxx and options.cxx. It
> refused to merge them, or replace them, or compile them, or whatever. But
> by removing my files, it recvsed the cvs versions and it compiled.
>
> I
It would be nice to get a CVS version that all the developers agree
will compile and run on their systems, then (arbitrarily) label it 0.7.10
It occurs to me that we could have easily have an automatic thing that
accepts small anonymous FTP uploads with a filename of the email address
and the con
We have a one hour slot, June 8 at 11am, for a Birds-of-a-Feather session:
http://www.infodrom.org/Debian/events/LinuxTag2002/workshops.php3
All welcome and invited - bring a working system if you can ...
I have not requested a booth for FlightGear yet, because
(a) I'm still not sure whether I'll
I propose that the PLIB project takes a community booth at LinuxTag
http://www.linuxtag.org June 6-9 this summer in Karlsruhe Germany.
This "PLIB USERS" booth would be a place for the dozen-odd projects
that conspicuously incorporate plib (and any others that join in)
to show off their projects,
> matthew law writes:
> > I'm thinking of treating myself to CH Products'
> > (http://www.chproducts.com/) USB Pro Pedals and USB flight Yoke
> > (the one with throttle, mixture, and prop levers).
> FlightGear likes them just fine, but you might need to apply a few
> Linux kernel patches to get
> [... Andrew Ross wrote ...]
> > Here's a gedanken experiment [...]
> A _what_ ? Is this a valid word in your language ? I'm asking because it
> definitely has german roots, the word 'gedanken' That's funny,
It is a popular word in the USA. Not sure whether this is due to too
many people
> > To be fair, however, what many people call "unflyable" around here isn't
> > anywhere near the case. The most recent JSBSim complaint, for example,
> > only took two clicks of keyboard aileron to correct at climbout speeds.
>
> I was talking to a pilot friend of mine the other day. He was te
> The sock itself is rigid rather than collapsible, and it simply
> rotates with the wind direction and tilts from 75deg down for no wind
> to straight out for 15kt. That's not right -- at 6kt, it should be
> inclined only 30deg down for a standard windsock -- but at least it's
> something.
You
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