Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:00:47 +0200, Geoff wrote in message 1339149647.1793.1.camel@DELL02: Hi, FWIIW I would opt for version 2.8 Concerning Rembrandt, it does not work on either of my 2 ATI cards - Radeon HD 2600 XT, running Ubuntu ..the latest (12.04)? 64-bit, ..dmesg |grep -i '\(firmware\|radeon\|kms\)' says? and Windows Vista 32-bit, and a Radeon HD 7700 series, in Windows 7 64-bit. I think I have tried all the options mentioned here... On the 2600 I usually see the corner buffer images, but no shadows. On the 7700 even no corner images, and after a certain time the card driver FAILS! I get a black screen, but thankfully it auto-recovers ;=() Oh, and I get about a 50%+ drop in frame rate... and at low viewing angles get flashing lime green over the foreground... So yes, for sure mention Rembrandt, but clearly mark it as in development ;=)) Is there a list anywhere of cards/drivers it DOES work on? If not too expensive maybe I would buy and try one ;=)) I seem to remember someone mentioning such a listing... On converting a/c, as I think someone mentioned why or how can this be done if the results can not be seen on his system! Sort of chicken and egg story... And for the 2.8 release, assume the MULTIPLE warnings will be 'removed', or suppressed, namely - Failed to create beacon for unknown runway 'KONT 26L OM' and about 28 more like this... Image C:/FG/fgdata/Textures/Water/waves-ver10-nm.dds uses compressed textures which cannot be supported on some systems. Please decompress this texture for improved portability. and about 6 more like this... ..what sort of compression did you guys use here??? We should not need to air this dirty washing on a release product ;=))! -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 18:59:02 -0600, syd wrote in message cabs5ffn+fn_tt2rbcwxp-pcu5ucd-7fmkavdqpgadbmporb...@mail.gmail.com: Rembrandt has been around for quite a few months now, and the changes required to make an aircraft Rembrandt-compatible are pretty small, even if the changes to add proper lights are more involved. If I was being harsh I'd suggest that the aircraft maintainers should man up and do it. There's still plenty of time before the release... I didn't think it harsh myself , but from my point of view , I'd rather not waste time on something I can't see or use... I get about 5 fps and a brilliant green terrain , with a duplicate black aircraft , not shadow , right beside the main aircraft. I think this is an ATI driver problem here since the view resizes every time a dialog or text pops up on the screen. Syd ..maybe. Screenshot url so we can see, and, command line to hang us up there in the same spot so we can post screen shot urls and can compare what we see? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
The summer release will become v2.8.0. Rembrandt is included but disabled by default and announced as an experimental but cool new feature. Rembrandt is not the default renderer and to follow the consensus, I won't add a Rembrandt option to fgrun. The braves willing to experiment will have to discover the right enabling property. Regards, -Fred -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
I wonder how it was done back in 2002 for Doom3 with OpenGL. Doom3 looks great, a huge contrast for ex. to X-Plane which is struggling as well to get flicker free shadows. --- On Fri, 6/8/12, Geoff McLane ubu...@geoffair.info wrote: From: Geoff McLane ubu...@geoffair.info Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 12:00 PM Hi, FWIIW I would opt for version 2.8 Concerning Rembrandt, it does not work on either of my 2 ATI cards - Radeon HD 2600 XT, running Ubuntu 64-bit, and Windows Vista 32-bit, and a Radeon HD 7700 series, in Windows 7 64-bit. I think I have tried all the options mentioned here... On the 2600 I usually see the corner buffer images, but no shadows. On the 7700 even no corner images, and after a certain time the card driver FAILS! I get a black screen, but thankfully it auto-recovers ;=() Oh, and I get about a 50%+ drop in frame rate... and at low viewing angles get flashing lime green over the foreground... So yes, for sure mention Rembrandt, but clearly mark it as in development ;=)) Is there a list anywhere of cards/drivers it DOES work on? If not too expensive maybe I would buy and try one ;=)) I seem to remember someone mentioning such a listing... On converting a/c, as I think someone mentioned why or how can this be done if the results can not be seen on his system! Sort of chicken and egg story... And for the 2.8 release, assume the MULTIPLE warnings will be 'removed', or suppressed, namely - Failed to create beacon for unknown runway 'KONT 26L OM' and about 28 more like this... Image C:/FG/fgdata/Textures/Water/waves-ver10-nm.dds uses compressed textures which cannot be supported on some systems. Please decompress this texture for improved portability. and about 6 more like this... We should not need to air this dirty washing on a release product ;=))! Regards, Geoff. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Frederic Bouvier wrote: The summer release will become v2.8.0. Rembrandt is included but disabled by default and announced as an experimental but cool new feature. Rembrandt is not the default renderer and to follow the consensus, I won't add a Rembrandt option to fgrun. The braves willing to experiment will have to discover the right enabling property. Hi Fred, I don't have a strong opinion here, but I have no problem with adding an enable rembrandt option to the fgrun before the next release. Why make it extra difficult for the brave and adventurous to test it out (it is already very cool and enjoyable, even if there is more work to do.) One of the really fun things about FlightGear is seeing the update pace and trying new ideas and features -- as long as we give people fair and realistic expectations, I don't mind having the option there in fgrun. Release early, release often, distributed debugging, etc. etc. etc. :-) Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
If I recall correctly, Doom3 used shadow volumes (the famous Carmack's reverse) and not shadow mapping. As the technique was patented by Creative, Carmack had to rewrite it recently before making the Doom3 engine Open Source Regards, -Fred - Mail original - De: Michael scrat_h...@yahoo.com À: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé: Lundi 11 Juin 2012 10:17:33 Objet: Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) I wonder how it was done back in 2002 for Doom3 with OpenGL. Doom3 looks great, a huge contrast for ex. to X-Plane which is struggling as well to get flicker free shadows. --- On Fri, 6/8/12, Geoff McLane ubu...@geoffair.info wrote: From: Geoff McLane ubu...@geoffair.info Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 12:00 PM Hi, FWIIW I would opt for version 2.8 Concerning Rembrandt, it does not work on either of my 2 ATI cards - Radeon HD 2600 XT, running Ubuntu 64-bit, and Windows Vista 32-bit, and a Radeon HD 7700 series, in Windows 7 64-bit. I think I have tried all the options mentioned here... On the 2600 I usually see the corner buffer images, but no shadows. On the 7700 even no corner images, and after a certain time the card driver FAILS! I get a black screen, but thankfully it auto-recovers ;=() Oh, and I get about a 50%+ drop in frame rate... and at low viewing angles get flashing lime green over the foreground... So yes, for sure mention Rembrandt, but clearly mark it as in development ;=)) Is there a list anywhere of cards/drivers it DOES work on? If not too expensive maybe I would buy and try one ;=)) I seem to remember someone mentioning such a listing... On converting a/c, as I think someone mentioned why or how can this be done if the results can not be seen on his system! Sort of chicken and egg story... And for the 2.8 release, assume the MULTIPLE warnings will be 'removed', or suppressed, namely - Failed to create beacon for unknown runway 'KONT 26L OM' and about 28 more like this... Image C:/FG/fgdata/Textures/Water/waves-ver10-nm.dds uses compressed textures which cannot be supported on some systems. Please decompress this texture for improved portability. and about 6 more like this... We should not need to air this dirty washing on a release product ;=))! Regards, Geoff. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) Doom SHADOWS
So why not use that technique for shadows? Anyway, I await 2.9 for the new 850 format... --- On Mon, 6/11/12, Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr wrote: From: Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Monday, June 11, 2012, 5:39 PM If I recall correctly, Doom3 used shadow volumes (the famous Carmack's reverse) and not shadow mapping. As the technique was patented by Creative, Carmack had to rewrite it recently before making the Doom3 engine Open Source Regards, -Fred - Mail original - De: Michael scrat_h...@yahoo.com À: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé: Lundi 11 Juin 2012 10:17:33 Objet: Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) I wonder how it was done back in 2002 for Doom3 with OpenGL. Doom3 looks great, a huge contrast for ex. to X-Plane which is struggling as well to get flicker free shadows. --- On Fri, 6/8/12, Geoff McLane ubu...@geoffair.info wrote: From: Geoff McLane ubu...@geoffair.info Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 12:00 PM Hi, FWIIW I would opt for version 2.8 Concerning Rembrandt, it does not work on either of my 2 ATI cards - Radeon HD 2600 XT, running Ubuntu 64-bit, and Windows Vista 32-bit, and a Radeon HD 7700 series, in Windows 7 64-bit. I think I have tried all the options mentioned here... On the 2600 I usually see the corner buffer images, but no shadows. On the 7700 even no corner images, and after a certain time the card driver FAILS! I get a black screen, but thankfully it auto-recovers ;=() Oh, and I get about a 50%+ drop in frame rate... and at low viewing angles get flashing lime green over the foreground... So yes, for sure mention Rembrandt, but clearly mark it as in development ;=)) Is there a list anywhere of cards/drivers it DOES work on? If not too expensive maybe I would buy and try one ;=)) I seem to remember someone mentioning such a listing... On converting a/c, as I think someone mentioned why or how can this be done if the results can not be seen on his system! Sort of chicken and egg story... And for the 2.8 release, assume the MULTIPLE warnings will be 'removed', or suppressed, namely - Failed to create beacon for unknown runway 'KONT 26L OM' and about 28 more like this... Image C:/FG/fgdata/Textures/Water/waves-ver10-nm.dds uses compressed textures which cannot be supported on some systems. Please decompress this texture for improved portability. and about 6 more like this... We should not need to air this dirty washing on a release product ;=))! Regards, Geoff. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Sounds good , I hope someday to be able to see the results . My list of aircraft is: dhc2 dhc6 777 , though there are a number of other commiters now , but dont think this will affect anything a6m2 dc6-b Sikorsky-76C R22 b1900d Citation-Bravo Citation-II Citation-X Aerostar-700 P47 I should be able to figure out your fixes to apply to the as yet uncommited ones. Thanks for the help. Syd On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Stuart Buchanan stuar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 1:59 AM, syd adams wrote: I didn't think it harsh myself , but from my point of view , I'd rather not waste time on something I can't see or use... I get about 5 fps and a brilliant green terrain , with a duplicate black aircraft , not shadow , right beside the main aircraft. I think this is an ATI driver problem here since the view resizes every time a dialog or text pops up on the screen. I'm happy to mark the appropriate objects transparent to make your aircraft Rembrandt-compatible, if you'd like me to. If you could give me a list of the aircraft you maintain I'll work my way through them. It's a 15 minute job per aircraft for me. -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 My impression is that it would be best to advertize Rembrandt as a new, exciting, but optional and stil experimental development. The reason is similar to what others have said - it seems to do really impressive things with light sources on some systems, it seems to make other systems really slow and it doesn't seem to be guaranteed to work everywhere. Personally, I'm not using it since it makes my system just a bit too slow to enjoy and I can't really see how to port lightfield development to Rembrandt (I guess we're not quite there yet as far as infrastructure is concerned, and I'd have to learn a few things, but also if Rembrandt + lightfield becomes even 20% slower than Rembrandt alone, then I can't fly it any more - Rembrandt costs me more than 50% of my framerate ). So personally, I really need it as optional, and I'd drop out of shader development if it weren't because if I can't enjoy it, I somehow lose the motivation to do it. I have also continuing concerns with 'converting' things to Rembrandt - do they still work for non-Rembrandt? I know some people create optional Rembrandt and non-Rembrandt versions. I'd ask everyone who has no problems with Rembrandt to really be aware that there are people who can't run it on their hardware at all and that there are others who may not want to run it but may want to use Flightgear and their favourite planes nevertheless. Going to a version 2.8 would really expose Rembrandt (lightfields, ...) to a larger user-base so that we can have a much better picture (via Forum response) where the issues are. I think overemphasizing exciting new features will backfire badly if there are issues. I'd really approach this with caution. Rembrandt has been around for quite a few months now, and the changes required to make an aircraft Rembrandt-compatible are pretty small, even if the changes to add proper lights are more involved. If I was being harsh I'd suggest that the aircraft maintainers should man up and do it. Is the implication of this that Rembrandt is considered the default and aircraft maintainers are expected to switch? When did we make this decision? I know all people for whom Rembrandt runs well would like to see everything converted asap, but what for these where it really means a lot of performance drain? 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] I like the DR-400 JSBSim very much - I seem to remember it was offered to the repository by the PAF hangar, I'm not sure if it ended up being committed. Anyway, I think it's a great plane, both in terms of the FDM and the visuals. Otherwise I'd like to see either the IAR-80 or the P-51D. There was also some work on the DHC6 - that's also a really popular plane - we might include that. 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no I would allow to commit aircraft freely up to the last point. It doesn't make any sense to restrict new commits as long as we don't have any effort in place to control quality of the aircraft which are already committed at least to the level where we make sure they run with the new version. We always seem to distribute some non-functional aircraft with a release, and as long as that is the case, what's the point in controlling what happens to new aircraft? Last minute changes are likely to be better than the non-functionals lying around. I would perhaps make an exception for any aircraft in the base package - quality control for those should be better and there should be some time for testing them. Cheers, * Thorsten -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Personally, I'm not using it since it makes my system just a bit too slow to enjoy and I can't really see how to port lightfield development to Rembrandt (I guess we're not quite there yet as far as infrastructure is concerned, and I'd have to learn a few things, but also if Rembrandt + lightfield becomes even 20% slower than Rembrandt alone, then I can't fly it any more - Rembrandt costs me more than 50% of my framerate ). So personally, I really need it as optional, and I'd drop out of shader development if it weren't because if I can't enjoy it, I somehow lose the motivation to do it. I don't think anyone is suggesting making Rembrandt anything other than optional, just like all the other graphical features we have. I have also continuing concerns with 'converting' things to Rembrandt - do they still work for non-Rembrandt? I know some people create optional Rembrandt and non-Rembrandt versions. I'd ask everyone who has no problems with Rembrandt to really be aware that there are people who can't run it on their hardware at all and that there are others who may not want to run it but may want to use Flightgear and their favourite planes nevertheless. Converting aircraft to Rembrandt will still mean that they work perfectly well with non-Rembrandt. Making an aircraft Rembrandt-compatible just involves marking transparent surfaces as such, and has no effect on the non-Rembrandt systems. Adding Rembrandt lighting similarly can be done in such a way that there is no effect on non-Rembrandt systems. The c172p provides an example of this. There are only two areas where aircraft maintainers need to be careful IIRC: - Some aircraft have textures with Ambient Occlusion baked into them. Rembrandt provides its own ambient occlusion so the textures used for a aircraft in Rembrandt should not have this included,. - Some aircraft have shadows as additional models. They need to be disabled when Rembrandt shadows are enabled. Is the implication of this that Rembrandt is considered the default and aircraft maintainers are expected to switch? When did we make this decision? I know all people for whom Rembrandt runs well would like to see everything converted asap, but what for these where it really means a lot of performance drain? As mentioned above, it's not a question of switching. Rather it's ensuring that aircraft are compatible by marking transparent surfaces. -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Hi, FWIIW I would opt for version 2.8 Concerning Rembrandt, it does not work on either of my 2 ATI cards - Radeon HD 2600 XT, running Ubuntu 64-bit, and Windows Vista 32-bit, and a Radeon HD 7700 series, in Windows 7 64-bit. I think I have tried all the options mentioned here... On the 2600 I usually see the corner buffer images, but no shadows. On the 7700 even no corner images, and after a certain time the card driver FAILS! I get a black screen, but thankfully it auto-recovers ;=() Oh, and I get about a 50%+ drop in frame rate... and at low viewing angles get flashing lime green over the foreground... So yes, for sure mention Rembrandt, but clearly mark it as in development ;=)) Is there a list anywhere of cards/drivers it DOES work on? If not too expensive maybe I would buy and try one ;=)) I seem to remember someone mentioning such a listing... On converting a/c, as I think someone mentioned why or how can this be done if the results can not be seen on his system! Sort of chicken and egg story... And for the 2.8 release, assume the MULTIPLE warnings will be 'removed', or suppressed, namely - Failed to create beacon for unknown runway 'KONT 26L OM' and about 28 more like this... Image C:/FG/fgdata/Textures/Water/waves-ver10-nm.dds uses compressed textures which cannot be supported on some systems. Please decompress this texture for improved portability. and about 6 more like this... We should not need to air this dirty washing on a release product ;=))! Regards, Geoff. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Thanks for all the replies, summing all up, I end up with the following: The summer release will become v2.8.0. Rembrandt is included but disabled by default and announced as an experimental but cool new feature. We keep the current selection of base package aircraft for 2.8.0. We keep last winter's aircraft commit policy (no feature freeze) for all aircraft but the base package's A/C selection. Is that consensus? Greetings, Torsten Am 02.06.2012 21:36, schrieb Torsten Dreyer: Hi, in just a bit more than two weeks from now we reach June, 17th, marking the first milestone for the release of next FlightGear version: the feature freeze period. If you have some great and exciting new features for FlightGear on your local disc but not yet pushed the gitorious repository - now is the time! Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no Regards, Torsten -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Le 08/06/2012 20:39, Torsten Dreyer a écrit : Thanks for all the replies, summing all up, I end up with the following: The summer release will become v2.8.0. Rembrandt is included but disabled by default and announced as an experimental but cool new feature. We keep the current selection of base package aircraft for 2.8.0. We keep last winter's aircraft commit policy (no feature freeze) for all aircraft but the base package's A/C selection. Is that consensus? Agreed on all 3 points. Alexis Greetings, Torsten Am 02.06.2012 21:36, schrieb Torsten Dreyer: Hi, in just a bit more than two weeks from now we reach June, 17th, marking the first milestone for the release of next FlightGear version: the feature freeze period. If you have some great and exciting new features for FlightGear on your local disc but not yet pushed the gitorious repository - now is the time! Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no Regards, Torsten -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
All sounds good from here, thanks for pulling lead on this Torsten! On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Alexis Bory alexis.b...@gmail.com wrote: Le 08/06/2012 20:39, Torsten Dreyer a écrit : Thanks for all the replies, summing all up, I end up with the following: The summer release will become v2.8.0. Rembrandt is included but disabled by default and announced as an experimental but cool new feature. We keep the current selection of base package aircraft for 2.8.0. We keep last winter's aircraft commit policy (no feature freeze) for all aircraft but the base package's A/C selection. Is that consensus? Agreed on all 3 points. Alexis Greetings, Torsten Am 02.06.2012 21:36, schrieb Torsten Dreyer: Hi, in just a bit more than two weeks from now we reach June, 17th, marking the first milestone for the release of next FlightGear version: the feature freeze period. If you have some great and exciting new features for FlightGear on your local disc but not yet pushed the gitorious repository - now is the time! Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no Regards, Torsten -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 Given the introduction of Rembrandt, I'd suggest 3.0.0. It's a major new feature, and is appropriate to bump the major version number up for. it also allows us to side-step the issue of the a future 2.10.0 release. :) Also, release numbers are cheap, and X-Plane, MSFS are already on version 10, so we've got some space to catch up :) 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] I don't see any reason to restrict the distribution to just the c172p, unless the base package has increased in size significantly. I've no opinion on changing the set of aircraft. 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no Assuming you mean the version currently defined under the release plan in the wiki, then Yes. I think it strikes the right balance to allow aircraft developers some time to work with the stable binaries. -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Personally I'd leave 3.0 for the new apt 850 support. If that's not in for summer leave it at 2.8. --- On Thu, 6/7/12, Stuart Buchanan stuar...@gmail.com wrote: From: Stuart Buchanan stuar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Thursday, June 7, 2012, 2:39 PM On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 Given the introduction of Rembrandt, I'd suggest 3.0.0. It's a major new feature, and is appropriate to bump the major version number up for. it also allows us to side-step the issue of the a future 2.10.0 release. :) Also, release numbers are cheap, and X-Plane, MSFS are already on version 10, so we've got some space to catch up :) 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] I don't see any reason to restrict the distribution to just the c172p, unless the base package has increased in size significantly. I've no opinion on changing the set of aircraft. 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no Assuming you mean the version currently defined under the release plan in the wiki, then Yes. I think it strikes the right balance to allow aircraft developers some time to work with the stable binaries. -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
If the new autogen will be included, I'm also in favor for a 3.0.0 version numbering. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Michael wrote: Personally I'd leave 3.0 for the new apt 850 support. If that's not in for summer leave it at 2.8. I think we need a new world scenery generation to take place to take full advantage of apt 850 support. I don't know if that's on the cards for this summer release. I disagree that we should leave 3.0.0 for apt 850 support. That's not to say that 850 support (and the implicit world scenery generation) isn't worthy of a version increment. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Björn Kesten wrote: If the new autogen will be included, I'm also in favor for a 3.0.0 version numbering. The current next branch of git will form the basis for the summer release, so it will include all the regionalized textures, object-masking and random building work that has taken place. -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Good to know. I'd dedicate some CPU time to world scenery generation, but I'm not sure how many months that would take... :S -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Hello, Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 Keep it consistent: 2.8.0 My reasons: -Rembrandt is still experimental and Fred's To-Do-list is still big. I would like to see it included, like now we have in 2.7.0. But as it is experimental, it doesn't work on all systems (and it won't as it is deferred shading and so will naturally need some power) and a lot of things missing it isn't a reason to break our version number system. With that I can still see that some shaders doesn't work yet with and without rembrandt and together with the updated other shaders (skydome/ lightfield as an example)- I'm sure there are people who will complain about. -the random buildings are great, but can't remember that we increased version number with the 3d clouds or the trees. 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] b) 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no Does not make sense to me to stop commit to aircraft during feature freeze, as long they won't break other important things. Cheers Heiko still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
As I mentioned some weeks ago I think we should leave path of creating world scenery in one task. I made a proposal how to create world scenery in chunks all day and nights with jenkins on different machines for different regions. The sources for this creation process can remain on one master, the many fgfs-construct slaves will need a bit of cpu power (more slaves welcome here anytime for testing). What I miss at the moment is a tool like terramaster for this process, where one can follow recent scenery creation process by created tiles i.e. The jenkins artifacts can be pushed to a terrasync server, daily, weekly, monthly or in whatever cycle. A tool like terramaster should reflect the versioning of the region/tiles visually somehow, but this is not the most important part of course. For me the scenery release should not follow the core release plan. A need for the next release cycle might be moving the outdated static apt.dat from the base package to a new place, but of course only in case someone really follows the plan to get a dynamical apt data solution for next flightgear. I know the plan with jenkins scenery creation might cause some inconsistency the first weeks and months, but once the creation process is in sync with data there remain only small areas to update and we can follow regular and great apt.dat updates coming in every months by a huge group of contributors chez xplane. There is probably no other way (or I didnt here anything different here): apt.dat in 810 format is a scenery development blocker, independent of release numbers. Cheers, Yves Am 07.06.2012 um 15:55 schrieb Björn Kesten amusing.random.al...@googlemail.com: Good to know. I'd dedicate some CPU time to world scenery generation, but I'm not sure how many months that would take... :S -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Hi all! Calling something a major release is not just a matter of what's possible, but also what's done. There's a lot possible with Rembrandt, but 99% of our aircraft don't use it. And lots of aircraft look ugly with Rembrandt (non-translucent windows and fake shadows mostly). I just checked the few aircraft that I remember being included in the base package: only one has Rembrandt lights (c172p)! I'm afraid we will get a forum-tsunami when we promote this release with support for real time generated shadows and lights, if even the majority of the base package's aircraft aren't showing how nice it can look... On our IRC channel, someone brought up the idea of including Rembrandt in the release, but not mentioning it (explicitly) in the changelog/press-release; and thus versioning it 2.8.0. That'll keep the expectations low, and allow aircraft developers to spend some months (till the next release) on getting their aircraft Rembrandt-ready. As we don't update the aircraft downloads in-between releases, users need to wait till the next release anyway before they can download a fair number of Rembrandt-ready aircraft... The next release could then be called 3.0.0. This would be in line with the Plib-OSG switch. The OSG transition started with 1.9.0. That release was a step back, as we lost shadows, 3D clouds etc. The period thereafter was spent on bringing back some of the features (eg. 3D clouds) and allowed developers to get used to the new possibilities (shaders). FlightGear 2.0.0 was then released with the key-sentence: FlightGear 2.0.0 reflects the maturation of the OpenSceneGraph. 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? Keep in mind that the 777 family got merged, so you'll end up with more aircraft than before, when keeping the same selection. But they share the same model mostly, so I won't consider it as a problem... Gijs -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Just to add a note what is already running on this jenkins right now, on different slaves: - hgtchop available SRTM-3 data (I make use of the no data filled files I provide), this a one day job on very old machine - terrafitting the data (another one day job on the same old machine) - taking recent xplane apt.dat and splitting into single airport files (one hour job) - creating xml files like showed at scenery list, per airport, still experimental - running genapts850 on every single airport file, creating airport and airport area folders for further scenery creation, still experimental - pushing this data to a public server (not realised yet, waiting for proposals where this should be) This is all created in a jenkins workspace which can be shared then by fgfs-construct slaves. What regions or how many tiles this slaves could/should create depends on a new regional grid that has to be defined. One benefit of this workflow could be: Everyone use the same elevation data for scenery creation, everyone use the same apt.dat data etc. The fgfs-construct job definitions may vary from region to region. People can concentrate on updating resources and jenkins scenery slaves are eating this automatically. Theoretically every machine around the globe can act as a jenkins slave when the recent terragear toolchain is installed and distinct ports are open in network. The fgfs-construct jobs are heavy and may run some days. Having some powerful servers as main slaves would be nice. Role for main slaves could also be taking over the jobs when some smaller nodes are off for any reason. Yes, just promoting this jenkins world scenery workload idea again, comments still welcome anytime. In case there is a machine/server which can act as a slave please just send me a note. You can get access to this jenkins immediately, I would also help to install all tools and setup the jobs to be done ;-) Cheers, Yves Am 07.06.2012 um 17:35 schrieb ys flightg...@sablonier.ch: As I mentioned some weeks ago I think we should leave path of creating world scenery in one task. I made a proposal how to create world scenery in chunks all day and nights with jenkins on different machines for different regions. The sources for this creation process can remain on one master, the many fgfs-construct slaves will need a bit of cpu power (more slaves welcome here anytime for testing). What I miss at the moment is a tool like terramaster for this process, where one can follow recent scenery creation process by created tiles i.e. The jenkins artifacts can be pushed to a terrasync server, daily, weekly, monthly or in whatever cycle. A tool like terramaster should reflect the versioning of the region/tiles visually somehow, but this is not the most important part of course. For me the scenery release should not follow the core release plan. A need for the next release cycle might be moving the outdated static apt.dat from the base package to a new place, but of course only in case someone really follows the plan to get a dynamical apt data solution for next flightgear. I know the plan with jenkins scenery creation might cause some inconsistency the first weeks and months, but once the creation process is in sync with data there remain only small areas to update and we can follow regular and great apt.dat updates coming in every months by a huge group of contributors chez xplane. There is probably no other way (or I didnt here anything different here): apt.dat in 810 format is a scenery development blocker, independent of release numbers. Cheers, Yves Am 07.06.2012 um 15:55 schrieb Björn Kesten amusing.random.al...@googlemail.com: Good to know. I'd dedicate some CPU time to world scenery generation, but I'm not sure how many months that would take... :S -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Le 07/06/2012 18:04, Gijs de Rooy a écrit : There's a lot possible with Rembrandt, but 99% of our aircraft don't use it. And lots of aircraft look ugly with Rembrandt (non-translucent windows and fake shadows mostly). I just checked the few aircraft that I remember being included in the base package: only one has Rembrandt lights (c172p)! Tsss, two now, counting the f-14b (though she lakes fancy afterburners flames and missiles launch nice illuminations). I'm afraid we will get a forum-tsunami when we promote this release with support for real time generated shadows and lights, if even the majority of the base package's aircraft aren't showing how nice it can look... That's why I would like to see it included as an experimental and optional feature, disabled by default, which is the case right now. On our IRC channel, someone brought up the idea of including Rembrandt in the release, but not mentioning it (explicitly) in the changelog/press-release; and thus versioning it 2.8.0. Anders presented that as an easter egg. Xiii likes easter eggs :-) That'll keep the expectations low, and allow aircraft developers to spend some months (till the next release) on getting their aircraft Rembrandt-ready. As we don't update the aircraft downloads in-between releases, users need to wait till the next release anyway before they can download a fair number of Rembrandt-ready aircraft... I must admit that this is a good argument for keeping Rembrandt out of the next release. In this case keeping 3.0 for a later release with ready aircrafts is consistent. Anyway an experimental/optional feature shouldn't trigger a major number. In any case, having a well known roadmap (and a communication policy ?) for 3.0 would be a good thing. Alexis -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Gijs de Rooy wrote: Hi all! Calling something a major release is not just a matter of what's possible, but also what's done. There's a lot possible with Rembrandt, but 99% of our aircraft don't use it. And lots of aircraft look ugly with Rembrandt (non-translucent windows and fake shadows mostly). I just checked the few aircraft that I remember being included in the base package: only one has Rembrandt lights (c172p)! A very good point, and one I hadn't considered in depth. I'm afraid we will get a forum-tsunami when we promote this release with support for real time generated shadows and lights, if even the majority of the base package's aircraft aren't showing how nice it can look... Rembrandt has been around for quite a few months now, and the changes required to make an aircraft Rembrandt-compatible are pretty small, even if the changes to add proper lights are more involved. If I was being harsh I'd suggest that the aircraft maintainers should man up and do it. There's still plenty of time before the release... On our IRC channel, someone brought up the idea of including Rembrandt in the release, but not mentioning it (explicitly) in the changelog/press-release; and thus versioning it 2.8.0. That'll keep the expectations low, and allow aircraft developers to spend some months (till the next release) on getting their aircraft Rembrandt-ready. As we don't update the aircraft downloads in-between releases, users need to wait till the next release anyway before they can download a fair number of Rembrandt-ready aircraft... You make a very good argument for 2.8.0 rather than 3.0.0. I think we should still mention Rembrand in the release note. I think it's perfectly reasonable to talk about it as a development feature that has still to be supported by all aircraft and shaders. I really don't like the idea of not including it in the changelog. After all, we want people to become excited by it and update aircraft/shaders etc. The next release could then be called 3.0.0. This would be in line with the Plib-OSG switch. The OSG transition started with 1.9.0. That release was a step back, as we lost shadows, 3D clouds etc. The period thereafter was spent on bringing back some of the features (eg. 3D clouds) and allowed developers to get used to the new possibilities (shaders). FlightGear 2.0.0 was then released with the key-sentence: FlightGear 2.0.0 reflects the maturation of the OpenSceneGraph. I'm not sure that is correct, but my memory is dim. My recollection was that even after we converted the main cvs branch to OSG, we kept a plib branch that was used for a subsequent release. -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Stuart Buchanan wrote: I'm not sure that is correct, but my memory is dim. My recollection was that even after we converted the main cvs branch to OSG, we kept a plib branch that was used for a subsequent release. There's a key difference: The OSG port, at least when it was added to CVS, was pretty functional almost from day one, even on feeble graphics cards. That's substantially different with Rembrandt, where some of the essentials still don't work properly on moderately powerful cards (even after obeying the recommendations Fred has been posting to this list). The OSG port just developed that slow because there was strong lobbying against it. Rembrandt, in contrast, has been widely adopted by developers but apparently there's still a lot do be done. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Rembrandt in general, instead, I think it's a cool idea - but, according to my opinion, cool is not sufficient for applying as an 'official' release feature. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:44 PM, Martin Spott wrote: Stuart Buchanan wrote: I'm not sure that is correct, but my memory is dim. My recollection was that even after we converted the main cvs branch to OSG, we kept a plib branch that was used for a subsequent release. I was wrong - 1.9.0 was indeed OSG-based. There's a key difference: The OSG port, at least when it was added to CVS, was pretty functional almost from day one, even on feeble graphics cards. That's substantially different with Rembrandt, where some of the essentials still don't work properly on moderately powerful cards (even after obeying the recommendations Fred has been posting to this list). The other key difference is that Rembrandt is an optional graphics feature that's switched off by default. OSG was a complete switch from plib, with no option to allow users to not use it. I think we're comparing apples with oranges. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Rembrandt in general, instead, I think it's a cool idea - but, according to my opinion, cool is not sufficient for applying as an 'official' release feature. So you would prefer not to mention it in the change log and release note? Historically, we've put all sorts of features in the change log. If we caveat that it is under development, I don't see any harm. -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Stuart Buchanan wrote: So you would prefer not to mention it in the change log and release note? In order to save everybody from pointless discussion, I won't disclose my preference. Anyhow I'd vote for seriously taking into account, that, for a large fraction of FlightGear's user base, Rembrandt probably won't work as expected - simply because it implies such a wide variety of potential pitfalls. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Rembrandt has been around for quite a few months now, and the changes required to make an aircraft Rembrandt-compatible are pretty small, even if the changes to add proper lights are more involved. If I was being harsh I'd suggest that the aircraft maintainers should man up and do it. There's still plenty of time before the release... I didn't think it harsh myself , but from my point of view , I'd rather not waste time on something I can't see or use... I get about 5 fps and a brilliant green terrain , with a duplicate black aircraft , not shadow , right beside the main aircraft. I think this is an ATI driver problem here since the view resizes every time a dialog or text pops up on the screen. Syd -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Yes, bring it on for those already wanting 850. Hence I could already work on swiss 850 airports, to have it ready without any hassle for 2.9 Terrasync integration. Could you let me know as soon as Europe/Switzerland could be used? Maybe as early/parallel 2.9 git, download or whatever. Thanks Michael --- On Thu, 6/7/12, ys flightg...@sablonier.ch wrote: From: ys flightg...@sablonier.ch Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012) To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Thursday, June 7, 2012, 7:36 PM Just to add a note what is already running on this jenkins right now, on different slaves: - hgtchop available SRTM-3 data (I make use of the no data filled files I provide), this a one day job on very old machine - terrafitting the data (another one day job on the same old machine) - taking recent xplane apt.dat and splitting into single airport files (one hour job) - creating xml files like showed at scenery list, per airport, still experimental - running genapts850 on every single airport file, creating airport and airport area folders for further scenery creation, still experimental - pushing this data to a public server (not realised yet, waiting for proposals where this should be) This is all created in a jenkins workspace which can be shared then by fgfs-construct slaves. What regions or how many tiles this slaves could/should create depends on a new regional grid that has to be defined. One benefit of this workflow could be: Everyone use the same elevation data for scenery creation, everyone use the same apt.dat data etc. The fgfs-construct job definitions may vary from region to region. People can concentrate on updating resources and jenkins scenery slaves are eating this automatically. Theoretically every machine around the globe can act as a jenkins slave when the recent terragear toolchain is installed and distinct ports are open in network. The fgfs-construct jobs are heavy and may run some days. Having some powerful servers as main slaves would be nice. Role for main slaves could also be taking over the jobs when some smaller nodes are off for any reason. Yes, just promoting this jenkins world scenery workload idea again, comments still welcome anytime. In case there is a machine/server which can act as a slave please just send me a note. You can get access to this jenkins immediately, I would also help to install all tools and setup the jobs to be done ;-) Cheers, Yves Am 07.06.2012 um 17:35 schrieb ys flightg...@sablonier.ch: As I mentioned some weeks ago I think we should leave path of creating world scenery in one task. I made a proposal how to create world scenery in chunks all day and nights with jenkins on different machines for different regions. The sources for this creation process can remain on one master, the many fgfs-construct slaves will need a bit of cpu power (more slaves welcome here anytime for testing). What I miss at the moment is a tool like terramaster for this process, where one can follow recent scenery creation process by created tiles i.e. The jenkins artifacts can be pushed to a terrasync server, daily, weekly, monthly or in whatever cycle. A tool like terramaster should reflect the versioning of the region/tiles visually somehow, but this is not the most important part of course. For me the scenery release should not follow the core release plan. A need for the next release cycle might be moving the outdated static apt.dat from the base package to a new place, but of course only in case someone really follows the plan to get a dynamical apt data solution for next flightgear. I know the plan with jenkins scenery creation might cause some inconsistency the first weeks and months, but once the creation process is in sync with data there remain only small areas to update and we can follow regular and great apt.dat updates coming in every months by a huge group of contributors chez xplane. There is probably no other way (or I didnt here anything different here): apt.dat in 810 format is a scenery development blocker, independent of release numbers. Cheers, Yves Am 07.06.2012 um 15:55 schrieb Björn Kesten amusing.random.al...@googlemail.com: Good to know. I'd dedicate some CPU time to world scenery generation, but I'm not sure how many months that would take... :S -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Saturday, June 02, 2012 22:36:17 Torsten Dreyer wrote: Hi, in just a bit more than two weeks from now we reach June, 17th, marking the first milestone for the release of next FlightGear version: the feature freeze period. If you have some great and exciting new features for FlightGear on your local disc but not yet pushed the gitorious repository - now is the time! Hi Torsten, Is my new radio code (available through an older merge request) going to be included in the next version? I have spent a lot of effort trying to integrate the radio propagation routines and instruments integrated within the Flightgear engine, and I believe it would be a valuable addition to the simulator, nevermind the fact that it would be the first open source engine to perform radio propagation calculations in a 3D environment, and almost real- time. Cheers, Adrian -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 5) Do we consider Rembrandt complete/stable enough to be part of the release? (answering this question gives you the answer to question 1) -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
Hi Torsten What are the plans now for apt.dat.gz and nav.dat.gz ? Will this prehistorical data files still be shipped with flightgear base package 2.8.0 ? As far as I understand flightgear is ready to read the newer formats and also the airport scenery tools are ready to use the newer formats. And there are some tendencies to keep this data out of the base package anyway and having a new organized data distribution (which is my favorite). I am still comparing 810 data with 850 data for some older airport work done by flightgear contributors. Once this task has finished I will send converted data to the xplane database to be integrated where it makes sense and where I couldn't find original contributor (some airports have already been updated meantime by xplane contributors, so it is necessary to compare every airport and decide which one has more advanced or better data). I think it is a good choice to go for the new data format even because contributors are asked to send their edits to robin peels xplane datacenter since many years. Unfortunately 810 xplane data format will not be updated anymore, so without roadmap for a change there is only the possibility to have a own flightgear data distribution, missing huge updates from the last couple of years probably. On the other hand some terrasynced scenery data will be out of data sync probably for some months with the change, but I guess this is the part which can be updated out of core release cycles and base package anyway. Cheers, Yves Am 02.06.2012 um 21:36 schrieb Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de: Hi, in just a bit more than two weeks from now we reach June, 17th, marking the first milestone for the release of next FlightGear version: the feature freeze period. If you have some great and exciting new features for FlightGear on your local disc but not yet pushed the gitorious repository - now is the time! Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no Regards, Torsten -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The next FlightGear release (summer 2012)
On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 21:36:17 +0200, Torsten wrote in message 4fca6b31.3090...@t3r.de: Hi, in just a bit more than two weeks from now we reach June, 17th, marking the first milestone for the release of next FlightGear version: the feature freeze period. If you have some great and exciting new features for FlightGear on your local disc but not yet pushed the gitorious repository - now is the time! Two questions have to be discussed and answered until the release branches get created on July, 17th: 1) What's the version number of the new release? a) 2.8.0 b) 3.0.0 2) Which aircraft do we ship in the base package? a) just the c172 b) same as before c) [name your preferred aircraft] 3) Should we keep last year's commit policy for aircraft during the feature freeze? a) yes b) no ..4) Check out http://sfconservancy.org/news/2012/may/29/compliance/ http://sfconservancy.org/blog/ http://busybox.net/ http://sfconservancy.org/overview/ a) join forces to stop piracy b) no F* way, let the pirates carry on with their merry freeloading bizneezz. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
