Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Warren Young]

On Aug 11, 2018, at 12:19 PM, Warren Young  wrote:
> 
> The /forum repository on fossil-scm.org currently doesn’t even allow you to 
> clone the repository

I’m misremembering.  See https://fossil-scm.org/forum/forumpost/db505ad4af
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Warren Young]

On Aug 11, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Andy Bradford  wrote:
> 
> Throwing a rock through an 747's window  is one way to solve the problem
> of getting a plane  to drop in altitude, but that  doesn't mean it's the
> best way.

Why is that a good analogy for what’s been done here?

I’d say your analogy is exactly backwards: we’ve got people throwing rocks at 
our plane to make it drop in altitude, and we can’t prevent them from doing so, 
so instead we’ve redesigned the plane to make it impervious to thrown rocks.

> The problem described on that link  is about spammers subscribing to the
> mailing lists and  then sending automated spam to those  who post to the
> mailing list.

Yes, and that can’t happen with Fossil forums.

> I guess this new forum feature  was easier to implement,

The Fossil forum feature is inherently valuable, so you can’t charge the effort 
spent on it against the current spam problems.  Two of my own public 
Fossil-based projects will be adopting it soon.

With that cost externalized, the question then becomes whether it’s easier to 
use Fossil’s new forum moderation features or to keep fighting the spammers 
one-on-one.  Since part of that cost is also externalized — i.e. by drh making 
me a moderator — it seems likely that the new method will mean less overall 
work for drh.

That in turn means we either get more improvements in Fossil and SQLite, or drh 
gets time to do things he’d rather be doing than fighting spammers.  That 
sounds like a good thing to me.

> even if it does make communication less useful.

The Fossil forum has been quite busy over the past few days.  Most of the 
discussion is about the forums themselves, rather than general-interest Fossil 
topics, but that’s normal for a big new feature set.

It doesn’t seem that the new method is materially less useful than the old.
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Warren Young]

On Aug 11, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Andy Bradford  wrote:
> 
> The mailing list has yet to
> deliver spam as far as I can tell.

I’d have a hard time proving it, since I delete such things from my local 
archive, and I wouldn’t be surprised if many of the public archives have their 
own inbound spam filtering, too.

But, I’m pretty sure I do remember a few incidents of this.  The mailing list 
admin then has to go in and manually boot the user out, and probably add 
filtering to prevent that email address from re-joining the list.  That 
probably falls on drh’s shoulders.

Certainly there’s no reason in principle this could not happen.

As long as the Fossil forum moderators are paying attention, it *can’t* happen 
with Fossil forums.

> I believe what you mean is that  your email address that you use on this
> mailing list has been harvested by spammers and that they are contacting
> you directly.

Fossil does not expose the email address of its users.

The /forum repository on fossil-scm.org currently doesn’t even allow you to 
clone the repository, and even if it did, you wouldn’t get a copy of the user 
table without high-level privileges that won’t be handed out to anyone who 
isn’t already trusted.

> That can be easily thwarted by simply setting your From address to be an
> invalid address

“Easily”?  Either:

1. On every post, you manually edit the “From” address in your MUA to something 
invalid.  Yes, it’s just a drop-down selection in modern MUAs, but it’s an 
extra step on each and every posting.

2. You reconfigure your mailer to always use the invalid address by default, 
and then have to remember to fix it on every email reply where you’d actually 
like to receive a reply.

3. Set up some kind of smart filtering system (procmail, etc.) to do this based 
on the destination address for each email.

All three options fall outside the scope of “easily,” in my book.

Maybe you have an easier option?
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[sky5walk]

Ok, obscured my email, but that cat has been out of the bag for years :(

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 2:06 PM,  wrote:

> Doh! Didn't know you could submit a dummy email.
> Even though mail is deprecated, are we still able to change settings?
>
> http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/options/fossil-users
>
> I asked for my password and no reply?
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Andy Bradford  hkgenpbcdpglgfggc...@bradfords.org> wrote:
>
>> Thus said Warren Young on Fri, 10 Aug 2018 08:34:24 -0600:
>>
>> >http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-v3-9-0-
>> entry-point-sqlite3-finalize-could-not-be-located-td85005.html#a85069
>> >
>> > You only need to read the first post, not the whole thread.
>> >
>> > Fossil forums prevent that problem.
>>
>> Throwing a rock through an 747's window  is one way to solve the problem
>> of getting a plane  to drop in altitude, but that  doesn't mean it's the
>> best way.
>>
>> The problem described on that link  is about spammers subscribing to the
>> mailing lists and  then sending automated spam to those  who post to the
>> mailing list.
>>
>> We've discussed  this before on  this mailing list and  some suggestions
>> were made, and  I guess this new forum feature  was easier to implement,
>> even if it does make communication less useful.
>>
>> Oddly  enough,  I  haven't  seen  much  of  the  spam  that  people  are
>> complaining about lately---maybe that means  my spam blocking is getting
>> it, or maybe it means the spammers have left?
>>
>> Andy
>> --
>> TAI64 timestamp: 40005b6f2492
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
>>
>
>
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[sky5walk]

Doh! Didn't know you could submit a dummy email.
Even though mail is deprecated, are we still able to change settings?

http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/options/fossil-users

I asked for my password and no reply?

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Andy Bradford <
amb-sendok-1536602477.hkgenpbcdpglgfggc...@bradfords.org> wrote:

> Thus said Warren Young on Fri, 10 Aug 2018 08:34:24 -0600:
>
> >http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-v3-9-
> 0-entry-point-sqlite3-finalize-could-not-be-located-td85005.html#a85069
> >
> > You only need to read the first post, not the whole thread.
> >
> > Fossil forums prevent that problem.
>
> Throwing a rock through an 747's window  is one way to solve the problem
> of getting a plane  to drop in altitude, but that  doesn't mean it's the
> best way.
>
> The problem described on that link  is about spammers subscribing to the
> mailing lists and  then sending automated spam to those  who post to the
> mailing list.
>
> We've discussed  this before on  this mailing list and  some suggestions
> were made, and  I guess this new forum feature  was easier to implement,
> even if it does make communication less useful.
>
> Oddly  enough,  I  haven't  seen  much  of  the  spam  that  people  are
> complaining about lately---maybe that means  my spam blocking is getting
> it, or maybe it means the spammers have left?
>
> Andy
> --
> TAI64 timestamp: 40005b6f2492
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
>
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said Warren Young on Fri, 10 Aug 2018 08:34:24 -0600:

>
> http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-v3-9-0-entry-point-sqlite3-finalize-could-not-be-located-td85005.html#a85069
> 
> You only need to read the first post, not the whole thread.
>
> Fossil forums prevent that problem.

Throwing a rock through an 747's window  is one way to solve the problem
of getting a plane  to drop in altitude, but that  doesn't mean it's the
best way.

The problem described on that link  is about spammers subscribing to the
mailing lists and  then sending automated spam to those  who post to the
mailing list.

We've discussed  this before on  this mailing list and  some suggestions
were made, and  I guess this new forum feature  was easier to implement,
even if it does make communication less useful.

Oddly  enough,  I  haven't  seen  much  of  the  spam  that  people  are
complaining about lately---maybe that means  my spam blocking is getting
it, or maybe it means the spammers have left?

Andy
-- 
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said sky5w...@gmail.com on Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:35:15 -0400:

> Whoa, I still receive spam from this mail list. :(

Correction: You received spam from spammers. The mailing list has yet to
deliver spam as far as I can tell.

I believe what you mean is that  your email address that you use on this
mailing list has been harvested by spammers and that they are contacting
you directly.

That can be easily thwarted by simply setting your From address to be an
invalid address, much like Will Parsons does:

From: Will Parsons 
To: fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 19:49:27 -0400 (17:49 MDT)
Subject: Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

I wasn't aware that fossil-users actually allowed using a different From
header than is in the Envelope From or I would have been doing this ages
ago.

Andy
-- 
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[sky5walk]

Sorry, I re-checked my spam folder and the last one arrived Jul-24.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:35 PM,  wrote:

> Whoa, I still receive spam from this mail list. :(
> While hard to track, I cannot say the same with the forums I use.
> Of course, forums can be hacked and emails exposed, but that is rare and
> targeting richer bounty.
> The fossil forum is a click away. If you resist, then write a crawler to
> retrieve the forum posts you desire.
> Or the forum can push changes to a subscriber.
> I prefer to leave them in the forum.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:34 AM, Warren Young  wrote:
>
>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 7:19 AM, Andy Bradford 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thus said Warren Young on Wed, 08 Aug 2018 11:45:09 -0600:
>> >
>> >>> Will this ever be enabled? I prefer email over web forum posting.
>> >>
>> >> How  would  you  prevent  spammers  from  using  an  email  submission
>> >> mechanism?
>> >
>> > Most mailing list managers prevent  this by only allowing subscribers to
>> > submit  emails.  I cannot  recall  the  last time  I  saw  spam sent  to
>> > fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org…
>>
>> That’s not the problem described in the thread I linked you to:
>>
>>http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-v3-9-0-
>> entry-point-sqlite3-finalize-could-not-be-located-td85005.html#a85069
>>
>> You only need to read the first post, not the whole thread.
>>
>> Fossil forums prevent that problem.
>>
>> > Gmail supports email aliases.
>>
>> If you’re speaking of the free Gmail product, it only supports the
>> user+...@example.com style, which fools no spammer.  They just strip the
>> +ext bit off.
>>
>> If you mean G Suite, you only get 30 of them per account.  I run the mail
>> server for my personal domains, and I have 240 aliases on my main email
>> account.  You want lots of aliases because it allows you to have unique
>> email addresses for any site whose security you are not entirely certain
>> about.
>>
>> I wish I’d created *more* aliases, in fact, because my real email address
>> gets most of the spam I receive, by far, suggesting that I should have
>> hidden it more often.
>>
>> >> If we don't solve that problem first,  we'll be right back in much the
>> >> same mess as today.
>> >
>> > Replacing a mailing list with a web  forum seems to simply trade one set
>> > of problems  for another.
>>
>> Every choice worth spending thought on has tradeoffs.
>>
>> drh has made his choice.  I don’t think you’re going to sway him on this.
>>
>> > I'm  on dozens  of other public  mailing lists
>> > that get a lot more traffic than Fossil Users does and there seems to be
>> > no problems there…
>>
>> Roughly 80-90% of mail traffic is spam, but that’s not a problem?
>>
>>https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q/2175
>>
>> > Why don't  we leave  both in place  and see what  people prefer  to use?
>>
>> I made that very suggestion earlier.
>>
>> > Those who  are willing to  live with the  problems that come  with email
>> > will express their preference by continuing to use email.
>>
>> Some of the burdens fall on drh, rather than on the users of the mailing
>> list, so he has some say in how all of this goes.
>>
>> > Is the web forum now moderated?
>>
>> Yes, from day 1.  I am one of the moderators.
>>
>> > Does it help?
>>
>> No spam has made it into the forum blockchain yet.
>>
>> I also haven’t seen anyone attempt to spam the forum.  If it never
>> happens, that’s fine with me.
>> ___
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>> http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
>>
>
>
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[sky5walk]

Whoa, I still receive spam from this mail list. :(
While hard to track, I cannot say the same with the forums I use.
Of course, forums can be hacked and emails exposed, but that is rare and
targeting richer bounty.
The fossil forum is a click away. If you resist, then write a crawler to
retrieve the forum posts you desire.
Or the forum can push changes to a subscriber.
I prefer to leave them in the forum.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:34 AM, Warren Young  wrote:

> On Aug 10, 2018, at 7:19 AM, Andy Bradford 
> wrote:
> >
> > Thus said Warren Young on Wed, 08 Aug 2018 11:45:09 -0600:
> >
> >>> Will this ever be enabled? I prefer email over web forum posting.
> >>
> >> How  would  you  prevent  spammers  from  using  an  email  submission
> >> mechanism?
> >
> > Most mailing list managers prevent  this by only allowing subscribers to
> > submit  emails.  I cannot  recall  the  last time  I  saw  spam sent  to
> > fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org…
>
> That’s not the problem described in the thread I linked you to:
>
>http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-v3-9-
> 0-entry-point-sqlite3-finalize-could-not-be-located-td85005.html#a85069
>
> You only need to read the first post, not the whole thread.
>
> Fossil forums prevent that problem.
>
> > Gmail supports email aliases.
>
> If you’re speaking of the free Gmail product, it only supports the
> user+...@example.com style, which fools no spammer.  They just strip the
> +ext bit off.
>
> If you mean G Suite, you only get 30 of them per account.  I run the mail
> server for my personal domains, and I have 240 aliases on my main email
> account.  You want lots of aliases because it allows you to have unique
> email addresses for any site whose security you are not entirely certain
> about.
>
> I wish I’d created *more* aliases, in fact, because my real email address
> gets most of the spam I receive, by far, suggesting that I should have
> hidden it more often.
>
> >> If we don't solve that problem first,  we'll be right back in much the
> >> same mess as today.
> >
> > Replacing a mailing list with a web  forum seems to simply trade one set
> > of problems  for another.
>
> Every choice worth spending thought on has tradeoffs.
>
> drh has made his choice.  I don’t think you’re going to sway him on this.
>
> > I'm  on dozens  of other public  mailing lists
> > that get a lot more traffic than Fossil Users does and there seems to be
> > no problems there…
>
> Roughly 80-90% of mail traffic is spam, but that’s not a problem?
>
>https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q/2175
>
> > Why don't  we leave  both in place  and see what  people prefer  to use?
>
> I made that very suggestion earlier.
>
> > Those who  are willing to  live with the  problems that come  with email
> > will express their preference by continuing to use email.
>
> Some of the burdens fall on drh, rather than on the users of the mailing
> list, so he has some say in how all of this goes.
>
> > Is the web forum now moderated?
>
> Yes, from day 1.  I am one of the moderators.
>
> > Does it help?
>
> No spam has made it into the forum blockchain yet.
>
> I also haven’t seen anyone attempt to spam the forum.  If it never
> happens, that’s fine with me.
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>
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Warren Young]

On Aug 10, 2018, at 7:19 AM, Andy Bradford  wrote:
> 
> Thus said Warren Young on Wed, 08 Aug 2018 11:45:09 -0600:
> 
>>> Will this ever be enabled? I prefer email over web forum posting.
>> 
>> How  would  you  prevent  spammers  from  using  an  email  submission
>> mechanism?
> 
> Most mailing list managers prevent  this by only allowing subscribers to
> submit  emails.  I cannot  recall  the  last time  I  saw  spam sent  to
> fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org…

That’s not the problem described in the thread I linked you to:

   
http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-v3-9-0-entry-point-sqlite3-finalize-could-not-be-located-td85005.html#a85069

You only need to read the first post, not the whole thread.

Fossil forums prevent that problem.

> Gmail supports email aliases.

If you’re speaking of the free Gmail product, it only supports the 
user+...@example.com style, which fools no spammer.  They just strip the +ext 
bit off.

If you mean G Suite, you only get 30 of them per account.  I run the mail 
server for my personal domains, and I have 240 aliases on my main email 
account.  You want lots of aliases because it allows you to have unique email 
addresses for any site whose security you are not entirely certain about.

I wish I’d created *more* aliases, in fact, because my real email address gets 
most of the spam I receive, by far, suggesting that I should have hidden it 
more often.

>> If we don't solve that problem first,  we'll be right back in much the
>> same mess as today.
> 
> Replacing a mailing list with a web  forum seems to simply trade one set
> of problems  for another.

Every choice worth spending thought on has tradeoffs.

drh has made his choice.  I don’t think you’re going to sway him on this.

> I'm  on dozens  of other public  mailing lists
> that get a lot more traffic than Fossil Users does and there seems to be
> no problems there…

Roughly 80-90% of mail traffic is spam, but that’s not a problem?

   https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q/2175

> Why don't  we leave  both in place  and see what  people prefer  to use?

I made that very suggestion earlier.

> Those who  are willing to  live with the  problems that come  with email
> will express their preference by continuing to use email.

Some of the burdens fall on drh, rather than on the users of the mailing list, 
so he has some say in how all of this goes.

> Is the web forum now moderated?

Yes, from day 1.  I am one of the moderators.

> Does it help?

No spam has made it into the forum blockchain yet.

I also haven’t seen anyone attempt to spam the forum.  If it never happens, 
that’s fine with me.
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said Warren Young on Wed, 08 Aug 2018 11:45:09 -0600:

> > Will this ever be enabled? I prefer email over web forum posting.
>
> How  would  you  prevent  spammers  from  using  an  email  submission
> mechanism?

Most mailing list managers prevent  this by only allowing subscribers to
submit  emails.  I cannot  recall  the  last time  I  saw  spam sent  to
fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org...

> I've got  an email address that  got onto the spamners'  lists despite
> only ever being published in a  short-run book distributed to about 50
> people.

If  your concern  is  that  email addresses  are  being harvested,  most
mailing list managers  have the ability to hide  sender email addresses.
Few of the mailing lists I'm subscribed to use this feature, but it does
exist.  I believe  even Fossil  tried to  use it  once, but  the general
feedback was that nobody liked it.

A better solution is for the subscriber to simply use a different email 
address for the mailing list---even Gmail supports email aliases.

> If we don't solve that problem first,  we'll be right back in much the
> same mess as today.

Replacing a mailing list with a web  forum seems to simply trade one set
of problems  for another. I'm  on dozens  of other public  mailing lists
that get a lot more traffic than Fossil Users does and there seems to be
no problems there...

Why don't  we leave  both in place  and see what  people prefer  to use?
Those who  are willing to  live with the  problems that come  with email
will express their preference by continuing to use email.

> Moderation doesn't help.  Someone could weed the  current mailing list
> archives, too.

Is the web forum now moderated? Does it help?

Andy
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Warren Young]

On Aug 9, 2018, at 8:33 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas  
wrote:
> 
> I can not login after registering myself.

Are you perhaps putting your email address in the user name field?  It only 
accepts user names, for now at least.
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,

I can not login after registering myself. I got the registration email,
follow the link, but now I'm trying to login without success. I can't
find an option for recovering or changing an old password.

Cheers,

Offray


On 08/08/18 07:40, Richard Hipp wrote:
> The new "forum" feature of Fossil is now live on the self-hosting website:
>
> https://fossil-scm.org/forum
>
> The forum feature is intended as a replacement for mailing lists like
> this one. Though still very "beta", I believe in eating ones own
> dogfood, and hence I am cutting over to the forum for Fossil itself.
>
> There is a "subscribe" option on the link above where you can sign up
> for email notifications to new forum posts.  The enhance email
> notification should work just like a mailing list, with individual
> emails for each forum post containing complete post content and
> correct In-Reply-To headers.  The only major difference between the
> forum and this list is that you must go to the forum website to post
> new content.  New submissions via email are disallowed as an anti-spam
> measure.
>
> The Fossil homepage now has a link to the forum instead of a link to
> mailing list sign-up.
>
> Please discontinue use of this mailing list except as an emergency
> back-up to the forum in case the forum stops working.  If forum is not
> working, you can also send email directly to me.
>
> After we have shaken out the forum feature a little further, I will
> shut down this legacy mailing list.
>

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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Warren Young]

On Aug 9, 2018, at 2:12 AM, Aslak Raanes  wrote:
> 
> On 9 Aug 2018, at 4:23, Warren Young wrote:
> 
>> On Gmane’s About page, we find this: "Gmane is not an unproblematic 
>> project…Gmane makes it much easier for spam harvesters to gather these real, 
>> authentic mail addresses.”  So, Gmane is part of the problems that 
>> originally motivated the creation of and move to Fossil forums!
> 
> For the fossil-users mailing list Gmane via nntp only exposes mail addresses 
> as:
> 
>Warren Young 

And here are the next two sentences on that same Gmane About page:

   “Even though the Gmane web interface to the news spool obfuscates all 
addresses, a spam harvesting bot just has to point itself to the news interface 
to slurp down the entire spool. And there's not much I can do to stop that from 
happening.”

It stems from the fact that Gmane requires that you use a legitimate email 
address as a user name on their service.
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Aslak Raanes]

On 9 Aug 2018, at 4:23, Warren Young wrote:

> On Gmane’s About page, we find this: "Gmane is not an unproblematic 
> project…Gmane makes it much easier for spam harvesters to gather these real, 
> authentic mail addresses.”  So, Gmane is part of the problems that originally 
> motivated the creation of and move to Fossil forums!

For the fossil-users mailing list Gmane via nntp only exposes mail addresses as:

Warren Young 

Something similiar might be a solution for fossil-forum public export function?

-- 
Aslak Raanes



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME digital signature
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Pierpaolo Bernardi]

Could the mailing lists be kept at least for announcements from the developers?

Pretty please?
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Warren Young]

On Aug 8, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Will Parsons  wrote:
> 
> I am
> disappointed that now I shall have to use a (expletive deleted) web
> forum to post comments...I have been using Gmane to read and post to
> both the Fossil and SQLite mailing lists.

I’ve always thought of Gmane as just another web front end for mailing list 
archives, but I now see that they allow NNTP posting.  May I then rephrase your 
complaint as “NNTP good, HTTP POST bad?”

On Gmane’s About page, we find this: "Gmane is not an unproblematic 
project…Gmane makes it much easier for spam harvesters to gather these real, 
authentic mail addresses.”  So, Gmane is part of the problems that originally 
motivated the creation of and move to Fossil forums!

> Please don't let this happen to the SQLite
> mail list also.

I believe the only question is “when,” not “whether:”

http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Mailing-list-shutting-down-td102466.html

This change is happening as a result of list spam problems going back to 
October 2015 at least:


http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-v3-9-0-entry-point-sqlite3-finalize-could-not-be-located-tp85005p85069.html

I’ve gotten such spam here at work as recently as July 11, and our corporate 
email is handled by a mail service that’s *very* aggressive about dropping such 
emails before they even get to us.  My home email server gets a lot more of it.

I remember a time when an X Window server would allow any other computer on the 
LAN to pop up a window on your computer.  There was a program that marched an 
Energizer bunny across the bottom of all computers in the lab, with no special 
permission or background program needed on each computer to allow it.  The 
program just started sending pixels to each machine in turn, and the X server 
dutifully displayed the graphics as requested.

We don’t live in that world any more.  Spammers and other malefactors took our 
civilized Internet and ruined it for the rest of us.

Expletives indeed, but that solves nothing.  Fossil forums should be an 
effective solution to this real problem, and they give many benefits to us 
besides:

https://fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/trunk/www/forum.wiki
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Will Parsons]

On Wednesday,  8 Aug 2018  8:40 AM -0400, Richard Hipp wrote:
> The new "forum" feature of Fossil is now live on the self-hosting website:
>
> https://fossil-scm.org/forum
>
> The forum feature is intended as a replacement for mailing lists like
> this one. Though still very "beta", I believe in eating ones own
> dogfood, and hence I am cutting over to the forum for Fossil itself.
>
> There is a "subscribe" option on the link above where you can sign up
> for email notifications to new forum posts.  The enhance email
> notification should work just like a mailing list, with individual
> emails for each forum post containing complete post content and
> correct In-Reply-To headers.  The only major difference between the
> forum and this list is that you must go to the forum website to post
> new content.  New submissions via email are disallowed as an anti-spam
> measure.
>
> The Fossil homepage now has a link to the forum instead of a link to
> mailing list sign-up.
>
> Please discontinue use of this mailing list except as an emergency
> back-up to the forum in case the forum stops working.  If forum is not
> working, you can also send email directly to me.
>
> After we have shaken out the forum feature a little further, I will
> shut down this legacy mailing list.

I know I'm far too late to roll back a _fait accompli_, but I am
disappointed that now I shall have to use a (expletive deleted) web
forum to post comments.  Please don't let this happen to the SQLite
mail list also.  (FYI, I have been using Gmane to read and post to
both the Fossil and SQLite mailing lists.)

-- 
Will

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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said Richard Hipp on Wed, 08 Aug 2018 08:40:37 -0400:

> New submissions via email are disallowed as an anti-spam
> measure.

Will this ever be enabled? I prefer email over web forum posting.

Also, would it  be a good idea  to subscribe some of  the mail archiving
addresses for continuity?

I personally prefer reading archives via:

https://marc.info/?l=fossil-users
https://marc.info/?l=fossil-dev

Thanks,

Andy
-- 
TAI64 timestamp: 40005b6aff59


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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Petr Man]

Hello Richard,

I registered in the forum and the password manager didn't save my
password. I don't see any way of resetting it.

Best,
Petr
On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 2:40 PM Richard Hipp  wrote:
>
> The new "forum" feature of Fossil is now live on the self-hosting website:
>
> https://fossil-scm.org/forum
>
> The forum feature is intended as a replacement for mailing lists like
> this one. Though still very "beta", I believe in eating ones own
> dogfood, and hence I am cutting over to the forum for Fossil itself.
>
> There is a "subscribe" option on the link above where you can sign up
> for email notifications to new forum posts.  The enhance email
> notification should work just like a mailing list, with individual
> emails for each forum post containing complete post content and
> correct In-Reply-To headers.  The only major difference between the
> forum and this list is that you must go to the forum website to post
> new content.  New submissions via email are disallowed as an anti-spam
> measure.
>
> The Fossil homepage now has a link to the forum instead of a link to
> mailing list sign-up.
>
> Please discontinue use of this mailing list except as an emergency
> back-up to the forum in case the forum stops working.  If forum is not
> working, you can also send email directly to me.
>
> After we have shaken out the forum feature a little further, I will
> shut down this legacy mailing list.
>
> --
> D. Richard Hipp
> d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Philip Bennefall]

Thanks, I am getting forum emails just fine now. What I am wondering is, 
what do I miss if I don't have a user account? I wanted to subscribe as 
a named user "philip_bennefall".



I also have a small suggestion about forum email notifications. In the 
From header, it only lists the email address so you cannot see who 
wrote the post simply by looking at the From name. The From header and 
the subject line is the only information I see in my email client inbox 
view so I have to open each message in order to figure out who wrote it. 
Normally I make a snap judgement as to whether I will read a message in 
a given thread based on the poster, so it would be great if the From 
header could say something like:



"username via Fossil forum"


Or something similar. Just a thought.


Thanks,


Philip


On 8/8/2018 3:10 PM, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 8/8/18, Philip Bennefall  wrote:

I am still getting stuck on the registration screen due to the captcha.
What parts do I miss if I don't have an account for now?

I have added you as a verify subscriber.  You should be getting forum
notifications now, without the need to fill in the captcha.



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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Gour]

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 08:40:37 -0400
Richard Hipp  wrote:

> Please discontinue use of this mailing list except as an emergency
> back-up to the forum in case the forum stops working.  

What about devel list?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Abandoning all attachment to the results of his activities,
ever satisfied and independent, he performs no fruitive action,
although engaged in all kinds of undertakings.


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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Stéphane Aulery]

Hello,

Le 08/08/2018 14:40, Richard Hipp a écrit :
The new "forum" feature of Fossil is now live on the self-hosting 
website:


https://fossil-scm.org/forum

The forum feature is intended as a replacement for mailing lists like
this one. Though still very "beta", I believe in eating ones own
dogfood, and hence I am cutting over to the forum for Fossil itself.

The Fossil homepage now has a link to the forum instead of a link to
mailing list sign-up.

Please discontinue use of this mailing list except as an emergency
back-up to the forum in case the forum stops working.  If forum is not
working, you can also send email directly to me.


Will you import list archives in fossil forum?

Regards,

--
Stéphane Aulery
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Richard Hipp]

On 8/8/18, Philip Bennefall  wrote:
>
> I am still getting stuck on the registration screen due to the captcha.
> What parts do I miss if I don't have an account for now?

I have added you as a verify subscriber.  You should be getting forum
notifications now, without the need to fill in the captcha.

-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Richard Hipp]

On 8/8/18, joerg van den hoff  wrote:
>
>
> On 08.08.18 14:40 , Richard Hipp wrote:
>> Please discontinue use of this mailing list except as an emergency
>> back-up to the forum in case the forum stops working.  If forum is not
>> working, you can also send email directly to me.
>
>
> well no luck here. this:
>
> An email has been sent to "veedeeh...@gmail.com". That email contains a
> hyperlink that you must
> click on in order to activate your subscription.
>
> simply has not happened so far (>5-10 minutes since subscribe).
>

Check your spam folder?

-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[joerg van den hoff]

On 08.08.18 14:40 , Richard Hipp wrote:

Please discontinue use of this mailing list except as an emergency
back-up to the forum in case the forum stops working.  If forum is not
working, you can also send email directly to me.



well no luck here. this:

An email has been sent to "veedeeh...@gmail.com". That email contains a hyperlink that you must 
click on in order to activate your subscription.


simply has not happened so far (>5-10 minutes since subscribe).

br/joerg

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Re: [fossil-users] This mailing list is now deprecated

[Philip Bennefall]

Hi Richard,

I am still getting stuck on the registration screen due to the captcha. 
What parts do I miss if I don't have an account for now?


Thanks,

Philip
On 8/8/2018 2:40 PM, Richard Hipp wrote:

The new "forum" feature of Fossil is now live on the self-hosting website:

 https://fossil-scm.org/forum

The forum feature is intended as a replacement for mailing lists like
this one. Though still very "beta", I believe in eating ones own
dogfood, and hence I am cutting over to the forum for Fossil itself.

There is a "subscribe" option on the link above where you can sign up
for email notifications to new forum posts.  The enhance email
notification should work just like a mailing list, with individual
emails for each forum post containing complete post content and
correct In-Reply-To headers.  The only major difference between the
forum and this list is that you must go to the forum website to post
new content.  New submissions via email are disallowed as an anti-spam
measure.

The Fossil homepage now has a link to the forum instead of a link to
mailing list sign-up.

Please discontinue use of this mailing list except as an emergency
back-up to the forum in case the forum stops working.  If forum is not
working, you can also send email directly to me.

After we have shaken out the forum feature a little further, I will
shut down this legacy mailing list.



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