Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On Jul 25, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: > On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Bruce Cran wrote: > >> On 25/07/2011 06:01, Freddie Cash wrote: >> >>> Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried to be a >>> Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. It made >>> a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a system. >>> Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install >>> configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! An os installer >>> should do just that: install the os and nothing else. >>> >> >> I tend to disagree with this. For people unfamiliar with FreeBSD using it >> as a systems administration tool can be really useful, at least until they >> understand where all the various configuration files are and how they work. >> Having recently switched to opensuse from Ubuntu I know I find the YaST >> tool incredibly useful, and probably wouldn't have continued using SuSE if >> it hadn't been there. Its installer mode is one of the better installers >> I've come across, and lets you fine-tune the configuration. >> > > The difference is that YaST was designed from the get-go to be both a system > management tool and a software installation tool and a system installation > tool. Sysinstall was not, and sysinstall used as a post-install management > tool the past couple of years has caused more issues for newbies than it's > "solved". Um, no. Though sysinstall started life as a stop-gap until the "real" installer was written (which never happened), it quickly switched gears and strived to be both an installer and a configuration tool. It was designed to do both, and there are volumes of emails from the last... what... 15-18 years?... that will attest to this. The design flaw of sysinstall was that it didn't follow the model-view-controller design pattern, so over time it became harder and harder to maintain it, and it essentially rotted as the system evolved around it, despite many valiant efforts by many tireless developers. YaST did a much better job of following the MVC pattern, and it shows 10 years later. Scott ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 07/25/11 18:12, Vadim Goncharov wrote: Hi Freddie Cash! On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 22:01:44 -0700; Freddie Cash wrote about 'Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.': 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing a nameserver and more. Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried to be a Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. It made a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a system. Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! An os installer should do just that: install the os and nothing else. No. That's wrong. An installer should make a usable system. While using sysinstall for configuration multiple times made a mess, it is still needed to make configuration the _first time_ - and it really did, without any mess. You've got a working keyboard, TTY, network, users/passwords, etc. - before reboot. This is something which must be intuitive for a new user, even if it is used only one time in the system's life (at the installation). Cutting it - is a regression. That all works perfectly fine. The issue is whether it is useful for post-install configuration, which is something different entirely. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Hi Freddie Cash! On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:36:59 -0700; Freddie Cash wrote about 'Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.': >>> Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried to be a >>> Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. It made >>> a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a system. >>> Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install >>> configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! An os installer >>> should do just that: install the os and nothing else. >>> >> >> I tend to disagree with this. For people unfamiliar with FreeBSD using it >> as a systems administration tool can be really useful, at least until they >> understand where all the various configuration files are and how they work. >> Having recently switched to opensuse from Ubuntu I know I find the YaST >> tool incredibly useful, and probably wouldn't have continued using SuSE if >> it hadn't been there. Its installer mode is one of the better installers >> I've come across, and lets you fine-tune the configuration. >> > The difference is that YaST was designed from the get-go to be both a system > management tool and a software installation tool and a system installation > tool. Sysinstall was not, and sysinstall used as a post-install management > tool the past couple of years has caused more issues for newbies than it's > "solved". > If nothing else happened to sysinstall but all the post-install crud was > removed from it, it would be improved a thousand-fold. > Since no one has stepped up to fix the issues with the post-install > management facets of sysinstall, it's only natural to remove those bits. The bad tool is better than absence of the tool. The sysinstall could at least something similar to YaST. The primary purpose is people unfamiliar with FreeBSD, of course. And for experiences - even YaST sucks in many aspects. > And, since no one wants to create a new TUI management tool, there's no > reason to burden the bsdinstall devs with it. Sure, no reason to burden with creation, but already existing couldbe adapted a little. E.g. disk partitioning was cutted to sade from sysinstall, the same could be done with parts of sysinstall, until something better is delivered. > Let's make an installation tool. Later, we can worry about a TUI management > tool, if it's really needed. The point is not a full-blown TUI tool like YaST but rather a regress in comparison with sysinstall. A something minimal must be present, not worse in features than something already existed. When "later" a userbase of FreeBSD will shrink due to installer issues, it will be much harder to regain it than to prevent it today. -- WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nucli...@mail.ru [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight] ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Hi Freddie Cash! On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 22:01:44 -0700; Freddie Cash wrote about 'Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.': >> 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used > on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing > a nameserver and more. > Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried to be a > Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. It made > a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a system. > Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install > configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! > An os installer should do just that: install the os and nothing else. No. That's wrong. An installer should make a usable system. While using sysinstall for configuration multiple times made a mess, it is still needed to make configuration the _first time_ - and it really did, without any mess. You've got a working keyboard, TTY, network, users/passwords, etc. - before reboot. This is something which must be intuitive for a new user, even if it is used only one time in the system's life (at the installation). Cutting it - is a regression. -- WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nucli...@mail.ru [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight] ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Bruce Cran wrote: > On 25/07/2011 06:01, Freddie Cash wrote: > >> Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried to be a >> Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. It made >> a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a system. >> Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install >> configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! An os installer >> should do just that: install the os and nothing else. >> > > I tend to disagree with this. For people unfamiliar with FreeBSD using it > as a systems administration tool can be really useful, at least until they > understand where all the various configuration files are and how they work. > Having recently switched to opensuse from Ubuntu I know I find the YaST > tool incredibly useful, and probably wouldn't have continued using SuSE if > it hadn't been there. Its installer mode is one of the better installers > I've come across, and lets you fine-tune the configuration. > The difference is that YaST was designed from the get-go to be both a system management tool and a software installation tool and a system installation tool. Sysinstall was not, and sysinstall used as a post-install management tool the past couple of years has caused more issues for newbies than it's "solved". If nothing else happened to sysinstall but all the post-install crud was removed from it, it would be improved a thousand-fold. Since no one has stepped up to fix the issues with the post-install management facets of sysinstall, it's only natural to remove those bits. And, since no one wants to create a new TUI management tool, there's no reason to burden the bsdinstall devs with it. Let's make an installation tool. Later, we can worry about a TUI management tool, if it's really needed. -- Freddie Cash fjwc...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Quoting Adam Vande More : On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 11:46 AM, eculp wrote: That makes two of us right now. I gave up, accepted the automatic partition and everything else went as expected, I suppose. The disk results are: # df Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ada0p2 941441086 2150880 863974920 0%/ devfs 1 1 0 100%/dev In my world from the beginning of commercial unix, I have never had a one partition disk. I'm not sure if it is that bad with today's, controllers, drives, drivers, etc. I hope someone chimes in with a "I see no major problems with gpt." My major problem was editing the automatic swap that was set at 4G and the menu would not let me change the 4G. The experienced option would not accept a blank value as swap even though there was message that said it would. I feel like a real idiot and am beginning to believe that it might be true. The rest of the install was brain dead. It was possibly a bit simpler than the previous. Less decisions ;) I had the idea the following were available in the new installer. 1. Raid configuration 2. ZFS 3. Regular everyday simple disk partitioning as before. I wasn't able to find any functional option except the one mentioned above. Now, I have to accept this single partition or upgrade sources to date, build a release and reinstall but I don't know if the problem has been fixed. I'll probably give it a try. It isn't that much of a deal. Hopefully I add something of value to this thread, but as a workaround you can use a PCBSD image and installer to install/partion plain vanilla FreeBSD with the options you mentioned earlier in a graphical enviroment. Thanks Adam, I suppose that I could just pull it into this machine and execute it as if it were sysinstall and reconfigure from the same box without having to update, make release, etc. I'm going to give that a try. Have a great day. ed -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 11:46 AM, eculp wrote: > That makes two of us right now. I gave up, accepted the automatic > partition and everything else went as expected, I suppose. The disk results > are: > > # df > Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/ada0p2 941441086 2150880 863974920 0%/ > devfs 1 1 0 100%/dev > > In my world from the beginning of commercial unix, I have never had a one > partition disk. I'm not sure if it is that bad with today's, controllers, > drives, drivers, etc. I hope someone chimes in with a "I see no major > problems with gpt." > > My major problem was editing the automatic swap that was set at 4G and the > menu would not let me change the 4G. The experienced option would not > accept a blank value as swap even though there was message that said it > would. > > I feel like a real idiot and am beginning to believe that it might be true. > The rest of the install was brain dead. It was possibly a bit simpler than > the previous. Less decisions ;) > > I had the idea the following were available in the new installer. > 1. Raid configuration > 2. ZFS > 3. Regular everyday simple disk partitioning as before. > > I wasn't able to find any functional option except the one mentioned above. > > Now, I have to accept this single partition or upgrade sources to date, > build a release and reinstall but I don't know if the problem has been > fixed. I'll probably give it a try. It isn't that much of a deal. > Hopefully I add something of value to this thread, but as a workaround you can use a PCBSD image and installer to install/partion plain vanilla FreeBSD with the options you mentioned earlier in a graphical enviroment. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 18:03, Ron McDowell wrote: Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan I'll have to agree with the original poster. I have no problem with the look and feel of the new installer, but when functionality that WAS there is now gone, that's a problem. My two, make that three, biggest gripes are: 1) no "back" button/selection/mechanism on each screen. Rebooting because I fat-fingered something on the previous screen is, well, unacceptable. This is why almost all screens have a "cancel" button. You can also restart the installer by control-C at any time without rebooting. Providing an actual back button is quite tricky and not necessarily always well defined in behavior, since the installed system will then be in an inconsistent state at which previous steps cannot necessarily be repeated. For those steps where that is not true, they can be reentered from the menu at the end in case of fat-fingering. 22 screens require user input in a basic install [on my box, taking the default choices]. Only 7 have a 'cancel' button, which puts you back one screen, most likely to a screen you can't escape from. ctl-c to restart is about a half-step up from rebooting. How about a note at the start stating that you will be able to make changes later before committing to the install? 2) no "minimal" install. Most of my installs are single- or few-task servers where I need a base os and a couple ports. I'm not sure what you mean by this. You can install just a kernel and the base system by deselecting the ports tree, games, and docs when you select which system components to install. I see now that this is outside of the "install" program's scope...in 9.0 the number of distributions has been shrunk, so the install program has to work with what's available to it. 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing a nameserver and more. This is deliberate. This particular feature of sysinstall made it almost unmaintainable, especially as those features slowly bitrotted. We have very good system configuration utilities already vi-ing /etc/resolv.conf is a configuration utility? -- there is no need to duplicate them in the installer, especially when it makes maintaining and improving that installer more difficult. Fire up sysinstall on a system. Hit 'C'. Where else can a beginner go to find all this good stuff in one spot? I agree it doesn't need to be part of the install program, but it does need to be part of the OS. -Nathan One new thing I noticed is the new install does not eject the CD at the end before rebooting. I've seen systems where 'eject' didn't do anything...but it never caused a problem either. Please consider adding that. -- Ron McDowell San Antonio TX ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Quoting Warren Block : On Mon, 25 Jul 2011, Andriy Gapon wrote: on 25/07/2011 07:47 Warren Block said the following: 2. The options don't always really apply. Create when ad0 is highlighted leads the user to think they can create a new device, like ad1. But it will really create another partition. Delete on ad0 deletes all the partitions, not ad0. No warning, either. Are you sure about this one? I have never expected that any installer would be able to create or delete hardware (a hard disk) in my computer. "Device" as in entry in /dev. It's a little blurrier than that. With no partitioning scheme, Create makes one, having the user select the type. After that, it creates new partitions. Having messed with this editor more, I can make it work and see the intent of the user interface. I wish I could suggest a good way to make it more clear, but can't quite get my brain around it right now. That makes two of us right now. I gave up, accepted the automatic partition and everything else went as expected, I suppose. The disk results are: # df Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ada0p2 941441086 2150880 863974920 0%/ devfs 1 1 0 100%/dev In my world from the beginning of commercial unix, I have never had a one partition disk. I'm not sure if it is that bad with today's, controllers, drives, drivers, etc. I hope someone chimes in with a "I see no major problems with gpt." My major problem was editing the automatic swap that was set at 4G and the menu would not let me change the 4G. The experienced option would not accept a blank value as swap even though there was message that said it would. I feel like a real idiot and am beginning to believe that it might be true. The rest of the install was brain dead. It was possibly a bit simpler than the previous. Less decisions ;) I had the idea the following were available in the new installer. 1. Raid configuration 2. ZFS 3. Regular everyday simple disk partitioning as before. I wasn't able to find any functional option except the one mentioned above. Now, I have to accept this single partition or upgrade sources to date, build a release and reinstall but I don't know if the problem has been fixed. I'll probably give it a try. It isn't that much of a deal. Thanks, ed ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011, Andriy Gapon wrote: on 25/07/2011 07:47 Warren Block said the following: 2. The options don't always really apply. Create when ad0 is highlighted leads the user to think they can create a new device, like ad1. But it will really create another partition. Delete on ad0 deletes all the partitions, not ad0. No warning, either. Are you sure about this one? I have never expected that any installer would be able to create or delete hardware (a hard disk) in my computer. "Device" as in entry in /dev. It's a little blurrier than that. With no partitioning scheme, Create makes one, having the user select the type. After that, it creates new partitions. Having messed with this editor more, I can make it work and see the intent of the user interface. I wish I could suggest a good way to make it more clear, but can't quite get my brain around it right now. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 07/25/2011 02:56, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 19:11, Claude Buisson wrote: On 07/24/2011 23:33, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan Recently I installed a system from the "official" memory stick May snapshot (FreeBSD-9.0-CURRENT-201105-amd64-memstick.img). here are a few remarks: Thank you for testing! My intent was not to test the installer, but I needed to install a recent 9.0-CURRENT with gpt on a brand new hardware - the 1st thing I need to do is to configure the keyboard, as I am not in the US. This is needed for an install, but also for using it as a live system. And the keyboard configuration dialog is only a part of the installation procedure. Which is why this is the very first screen of the installer? If my memory is good, it was in the first screen of the install dialog, not before the choice of installation / live system - the partition tool is too simple/rudimentary, compared to the old sysinstall dialog. I always want to have a total control of the partitions e.g. to have a proper alignement. So one must use the shell escape or the live system, which is a regression. The alignment is done to match the disk stripe size automatically, and the partition editor has many, many more features than the sysinstall one. Is there something in particular you wanted? I don't use any "stripe" (only plain UFS), and the "many, many features" where too well hidden for my old brain. - extracting the tarballs lead to (cryptic) errors: I discovered the hard way that I needed to execute a newfs. This is what the directions at the top of the partitioning shell say. As I not clearly understood these directions, I skipped to the live system for doing the gpart work. - I followed a succession of screens asking me to do the usual configuration steps (hostname, clock, network - IPv4 only ?? -, users) and at the end I get back a screen asking me if a wanted to do the steps I had done just before... The network configuration also allows IPv6 in newer versions -- that snapshot is 2 months out of date. The final screen says at the top that is there to modify earlier choices. Can you suggest a clearer wording? Clear wording is certainly a plus. - booting the installed system, I found that the hostname disappeared, the keyboard was not configured, nor the network, and so on This is inexplicable. This has worked perfectly for everyone else -- it's possible you made a mistake in the partitioning, but I can't imagine how it would have caused this. Are you able to reproduce the problem? My system is now running, and I don't have any other system to play with. - during the whole process the screen was scrambled by the occurence of a number of LORs displayed on top of the dialogs/messages of the installer. The actual 9.0 CDs will not have WITNESS enabled. It would be nice if the LORs in question were actually fixed, however. A "good" installer cannot suppose that there will not be any kernel message during its use, some of them will be benign. Furthermore the installer (and the whole make release process) has not for sole use the installation (and creation) of official releases. I started building my own releases at 2.2.X time.. - the file system of the installer/live system seems to be too small, leading to a number of "system full" messages as soon a few files are written to it. The live system is designed more as a fixit medium. What were you trying to do with it? I first copied the dmesg to be able to retrieve it on another system (was thinking that /var was a memory file system), then I saw the "system full" at different steps of the install. Referring to a thread I found recently a propos the documentation on the install media, I also want to say that a proper installer must be able to do its work without any Internet connectivity. There exist systems which are not connected, and net
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
on 25/07/2011 07:47 Warren Block said the following: > 2. The options don't always really apply. Create when ad0 is highlighted > leads > the user to think they can create a new device, like ad1. But it will really > create another partition. Delete on ad0 deletes all the partitions, not ad0. > No warning, either. Are you sure about this one? I have never expected that any installer would be able to create or delete hardware (a hard disk) in my computer. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 25/07/2011 06:01, Freddie Cash wrote: Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried to be a Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. It made a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a system. Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! An os installer should do just that: install the os and nothing else. I tend to disagree with this. For people unfamiliar with FreeBSD using it as a systems administration tool can be really useful, at least until they understand where all the various configuration files are and how they work. Having recently switched to opensuse from Ubuntu I know I find the YaST tool incredibly useful, and probably wouldn't have continued using SuSE if it hadn't been there. Its installer mode is one of the better installers I've come across, and lets you fine-tune the configuration. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Am Sun, 24 Jul 2011 20:08:02 -0500 schrieb Nathan Whitehorn : > It's a change from before, but a normalization with respect to most > Linux distributions, since we are now using the same dialog as, e.g., > Debian and Ubuntu. > -Nathan Hi, yes. And I want to thank you (and everyone) for this change in libdialog. This was something I immediately liked especially while configuring ports. It saves many key presses and is perfectly logical and provides more usability. I've done a CURRENT installation, too. And it looks like you did a good job. I've liked what I've seen so far. I have one request though: Please provide more recent snapshots for more platforms. It's very difficult to find an acceptable one. It would be nice when you get some early feedback from users instead of making a typical dot-zero release that needs to be fixed and no one will be able to accept. -- Martin signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. For myself, two things jumped out: 1. The use of tab and enter in the dialogs is different enough to be a problem, particularly when other dialogs like port options still work as before. 2. The disk setup screen is unclear, or unintuitive, at least for me. For reference, here's a copy: Please review the disk setup. When complete, press the Exit button. ad0 8.7 GBGPT ad0p1 64 KB freebsd-boot ad0p2 8.3 GBfreebsd-ufs/ ad0p3 446 MBfreebsd-swap none < Auto > < Exit > 1. Extending the highlight bar the whole width of the window would help to show what is being operated on. 2. The options don't always really apply. Create when ad0 is highlighted leads the user to think they can create a new device, like ad1. But it will really create another partition. Delete on ad0 deletes all the partitions, not ad0. No warning, either. 3. Tab in the Modify partition window doesn't go to the next field, but to the OK button. Backtab closes the window instead of going back a field. 4. "The partition scheme requires a boot partition". But there's one already there. Possibly this is a bug. ad0 8.7 GBGPT ad0p1 64 KB freebsd-boot ad0p2 8.3 GBfreebsd-ufs/ ad0p3 446 MBfreebsd-swap none ad0p4 64 KB freebsd-boot ad0p5 926 KBfreebsd-ufs/ 5. This one's about method rather than user interface... Auto creation should probably follow the standard of separate partitions for /, swap, /var, /tmp, and /usr. Swap at the end of the disk will be slower, and combining all the filesystems is a big change. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On Sunday, July 24, 2011, Ron McDowell wrote: >> > > I'll have to agree with the original poster. I have no problem with the look and feel of the new installer, but when functionality that WAS there is now gone, that's a problem. My two, make that three, biggest gripes are: > > 1) no "back" button/selection/mechanism on each screen. Rebooting because I fat-fingered something on the previous screen is, well, unacceptable. > 2) no "minimal" install. Most of my installs are single- or few-task servers where I need a base os and a couple ports. The nice thing about bsdinstall is that every install is identical. It's basically just dumping an image file to disk. > 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing a nameserver and more. Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried to be a Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. It made a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a system. Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! An os installer should do just that: install the os and nothing else. -- Freddie Cash fjwc...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 25/07/2011 02:08, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 20:03, Bruce Cran wrote: On 25/07/2011 00:03, Ron McDowell wrote: 1) no "back" button/selection/mechanism on each screen. Rebooting because I fat-fingered something on the previous screen is, well, unacceptable. 2) no "minimal" install. Most of my installs are single- or few-task servers where I need a base os and a couple ports. 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing a nameserver and more. Another potential problem is that the new version of libdialog that the new installer uses changes the way navigation is done: on Linux and in the previous version on FreeBSD it's possible to press to change focus to the buttons and different UI elements. That doesn't work any more. It's a change from before, but a normalization with respect to most Linux distributions, since we are now using the same dialog as, e.g., Debian and Ubuntu. The Debian 6.0.2.1 installer appears to use the old navigation method, and SuSE 11.4 seems to too. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 07/24/11 20:03, Bruce Cran wrote: On 25/07/2011 00:03, Ron McDowell wrote: 1) no "back" button/selection/mechanism on each screen. Rebooting because I fat-fingered something on the previous screen is, well, unacceptable. 2) no "minimal" install. Most of my installs are single- or few-task servers where I need a base os and a couple ports. 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing a nameserver and more. Another potential problem is that the new version of libdialog that the new installer uses changes the way navigation is done: on Linux and in the previous version on FreeBSD it's possible to press to change focus to the buttons and different UI elements. That doesn't work any more. It's a change from before, but a normalization with respect to most Linux distributions, since we are now using the same dialog as, e.g., Debian and Ubuntu. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Yes, I agree. I'll ask re@ to change it. -Nathan On 07/24/11 20:02, Adrian Chadd wrote: Something tells me that's a disaster waiting to happen. Eg, if something happens, and the installer disk gets corrupted, people may blame freebsd for being unstable, email questions to freebsd-* mailing lists asking why X doesn't work (only for it to work when the image is written out again), etc, etc. If it's going to double as a live image versus an installer than maybe have a boot option that mounts the root filesystem read-write (complete with some fingerprint that says that the image has been booted read-write at least once?) Adrian On 25 July 2011 08:57, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: It does not. I had tried to match the behavior of the 8.x memsticks. It's an easy change in /usr/src/release/ARCH/make-memstick.sh to change it, however. -Nathan On 07/24/11 19:54, Adrian Chadd wrote: .. wait, the install-off-USB doesn't default to a read-only boot? Adrian On 25 July 2011 08:11, Claude Buissonwrote: On 07/24/2011 23:33, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan Recently I installed a system from the "official" memory stick May snapshot (FreeBSD-9.0-CURRENT-201105-amd64-memstick.img). here are a few remarks: - the 1st thing I need to do is to configure the keyboard, as I am not in the US. This is needed for an install, but also for using it as a live system. And the keyboard configuration dialog is only a part of the installation procedure. - the partition tool is too simple/rudimentary, compared to the old sysinstall dialog. I always want to have a total control of the partitions e.g. to have a proper alignement. So one must use the shell escape or the live system, which is a regression. - extracting the tarballs lead to (cryptic) errors: I discovered the hard way that I needed to execute a newfs. - I followed a succession of screens asking me to do the usual configuration steps (hostname, clock, network - IPv4 only ?? -, users) and at the end I get back a screen asking me if a wanted to do the steps I had done just before... - booting the installed system, I found that the hostname disappeared, the keyboard was not configured, nor the network, and so on - during the whole process the screen was scrambled by the occurence of a number of LORs displayed on top of the dialogs/messages of the installer. - the file system of the installer/live system seems to be too small, leading to a number of "system full" messages as soon a few files are written to it. So the sole value added of the installer was the extraction of the tarballs.. It seems that (on a memory stick which is writable) that every aborted attempt to do a configuration step leaves a "trace" in some files used by the installer, which is able to show it (e.g. the hostname) at the following attempts, but without garantee that it will effectively be used. (On the other hand, the advantage of the memory stick is that the system on it can be configured at will) Referring to a thread I found recently a propos the documentation on the install media, I also want to say that a proper installer must be able to do its work without any Internet connectivity. There exist systems which are not connected, and networks without any communication with the Internet. Claude Buisson ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 07/24/11 18:03, Ron McDowell wrote: Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan I'll have to agree with the original poster. I have no problem with the look and feel of the new installer, but when functionality that WAS there is now gone, that's a problem. My two, make that three, biggest gripes are: 1) no "back" button/selection/mechanism on each screen. Rebooting because I fat-fingered something on the previous screen is, well, unacceptable. This is why almost all screens have a "cancel" button. You can also restart the installer by control-C at any time without rebooting. Providing an actual back button is quite tricky and not necessarily always well defined in behavior, since the installed system will then be in an inconsistent state at which previous steps cannot necessarily be repeated. For those steps where that is not true, they can be reentered from the menu at the end in case of fat-fingering. 2) no "minimal" install. Most of my installs are single- or few-task servers where I need a base os and a couple ports. I'm not sure what you mean by this. You can install just a kernel and the base system by deselecting the ports tree, games, and docs when you select which system components to install. 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing a nameserver and more. This is deliberate. This particular feature of sysinstall made it almost unmaintainable, especially as those features slowly bitrotted. We have very good system configuration utilities already -- there is no need to duplicate them in the installer, especially when it makes maintaining and improving that installer more difficult. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 25/07/2011 00:03, Ron McDowell wrote: 1) no "back" button/selection/mechanism on each screen. Rebooting because I fat-fingered something on the previous screen is, well, unacceptable. 2) no "minimal" install. Most of my installs are single- or few-task servers where I need a base os and a couple ports. 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing a nameserver and more. Another potential problem is that the new version of libdialog that the new installer uses changes the way navigation is done: on Linux and in the previous version on FreeBSD it's possible to press to change focus to the buttons and different UI elements. That doesn't work any more. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Something tells me that's a disaster waiting to happen. Eg, if something happens, and the installer disk gets corrupted, people may blame freebsd for being unstable, email questions to freebsd-* mailing lists asking why X doesn't work (only for it to work when the image is written out again), etc, etc. If it's going to double as a live image versus an installer than maybe have a boot option that mounts the root filesystem read-write (complete with some fingerprint that says that the image has been booted read-write at least once?) Adrian On 25 July 2011 08:57, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > It does not. I had tried to match the behavior of the 8.x memsticks. It's an > easy change in /usr/src/release/ARCH/make-memstick.sh to change it, however. > -Nathan > > On 07/24/11 19:54, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> >> .. wait, the install-off-USB doesn't default to a read-only boot? >> >> >> >> Adrian >> >> On 25 July 2011 08:11, Claude Buisson wrote: >>> >>> On 07/24/2011 23:33, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: > > I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not > payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 > and never really had a problem with understanding the installation > program. There is always a first time, I guess. > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ > > When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer > screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) > > I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe > something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our > employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to > have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? > > Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of > information on the flow of the installation. > > Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan >>> >>> Recently I installed a system from the "official" memory stick May >>> snapshot >>> (FreeBSD-9.0-CURRENT-201105-amd64-memstick.img). here are a few remarks: >>> >>> - the 1st thing I need to do is to configure the keyboard, as I am not in >>> the >>> US. This is needed for an install, but also for using it as a live >>> system. >>> And >>> the keyboard configuration dialog is only a part of the installation >>> procedure. >>> >>> - the partition tool is too simple/rudimentary, compared to the old >>> sysinstall >>> dialog. I always want to have a total control of the partitions e.g. to >>> have >>> a >>> proper alignement. So one must use the shell escape or the live system, >>> which is >>> a regression. >>> >>> - extracting the tarballs lead to (cryptic) errors: I discovered the hard >>> way >>> that I needed to execute a newfs. >>> >>> - I followed a succession of screens asking me to do the usual >>> configuration >>> steps (hostname, clock, network - IPv4 only ?? -, users) and at the end I >>> get >>> back a screen asking me if a wanted to do the steps I had done just >>> before... >>> >>> - booting the installed system, I found that the hostname disappeared, >>> the >>> keyboard was not configured, nor the network, and so on >>> >>> - during the whole process the screen was scrambled by the occurence of a >>> number >>> of LORs displayed on top of the dialogs/messages of the installer. >>> >>> - the file system of the installer/live system seems to be too small, >>> leading to >>> a number of "system full" messages as soon a few files are written to it. >>> >>> So the sole value added of the installer was the extraction of the >>> tarballs.. >>> >>> It seems that (on a memory stick which is writable) that every aborted >>> attempt >>> to do a configuration step leaves a "trace" in some files used by the >>> installer, >>> which is able to show it (e.g. the hostname) at the following attempts, >>> but >>> without garantee that it will effectively be used. >>> >>> (On the other hand, the advantage of the memory stick is that the system >>> on >>> it >>> can be configured at will) >>> >>> Referring to a thread I found recently a propos the documentation on the >>> install >>> media, I also want to say that a proper installer must be able to do its >>> work >>> without any Internet connectivity. There exist systems which are not >>> connected, >>> and networks without any communication with the Internet. >>> >>> Claude Buisson >>> ___ >>> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>> "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" >>> >>
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
It does not. I had tried to match the behavior of the 8.x memsticks. It's an easy change in /usr/src/release/ARCH/make-memstick.sh to change it, however. -Nathan On 07/24/11 19:54, Adrian Chadd wrote: .. wait, the install-off-USB doesn't default to a read-only boot? Adrian On 25 July 2011 08:11, Claude Buisson wrote: On 07/24/2011 23:33, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan Recently I installed a system from the "official" memory stick May snapshot (FreeBSD-9.0-CURRENT-201105-amd64-memstick.img). here are a few remarks: - the 1st thing I need to do is to configure the keyboard, as I am not in the US. This is needed for an install, but also for using it as a live system. And the keyboard configuration dialog is only a part of the installation procedure. - the partition tool is too simple/rudimentary, compared to the old sysinstall dialog. I always want to have a total control of the partitions e.g. to have a proper alignement. So one must use the shell escape or the live system, which is a regression. - extracting the tarballs lead to (cryptic) errors: I discovered the hard way that I needed to execute a newfs. - I followed a succession of screens asking me to do the usual configuration steps (hostname, clock, network - IPv4 only ?? -, users) and at the end I get back a screen asking me if a wanted to do the steps I had done just before... - booting the installed system, I found that the hostname disappeared, the keyboard was not configured, nor the network, and so on - during the whole process the screen was scrambled by the occurence of a number of LORs displayed on top of the dialogs/messages of the installer. - the file system of the installer/live system seems to be too small, leading to a number of "system full" messages as soon a few files are written to it. So the sole value added of the installer was the extraction of the tarballs.. It seems that (on a memory stick which is writable) that every aborted attempt to do a configuration step leaves a "trace" in some files used by the installer, which is able to show it (e.g. the hostname) at the following attempts, but without garantee that it will effectively be used. (On the other hand, the advantage of the memory stick is that the system on it can be configured at will) Referring to a thread I found recently a propos the documentation on the install media, I also want to say that a proper installer must be able to do its work without any Internet connectivity. There exist systems which are not connected, and networks without any communication with the Internet. Claude Buisson ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 07/24/11 19:11, Claude Buisson wrote: On 07/24/2011 23:33, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan Recently I installed a system from the "official" memory stick May snapshot (FreeBSD-9.0-CURRENT-201105-amd64-memstick.img). here are a few remarks: Thank you for testing! - the 1st thing I need to do is to configure the keyboard, as I am not in the US. This is needed for an install, but also for using it as a live system. And the keyboard configuration dialog is only a part of the installation procedure. Which is why this is the very first screen of the installer? - the partition tool is too simple/rudimentary, compared to the old sysinstall dialog. I always want to have a total control of the partitions e.g. to have a proper alignement. So one must use the shell escape or the live system, which is a regression. The alignment is done to match the disk stripe size automatically, and the partition editor has many, many more features than the sysinstall one. Is there something in particular you wanted? - extracting the tarballs lead to (cryptic) errors: I discovered the hard way that I needed to execute a newfs. This is what the directions at the top of the partitioning shell say. - I followed a succession of screens asking me to do the usual configuration steps (hostname, clock, network - IPv4 only ?? -, users) and at the end I get back a screen asking me if a wanted to do the steps I had done just before... The network configuration also allows IPv6 in newer versions -- that snapshot is 2 months out of date. The final screen says at the top that is there to modify earlier choices. Can you suggest a clearer wording? - booting the installed system, I found that the hostname disappeared, the keyboard was not configured, nor the network, and so on This is inexplicable. This has worked perfectly for everyone else -- it's possible you made a mistake in the partitioning, but I can't imagine how it would have caused this. Are you able to reproduce the problem? - during the whole process the screen was scrambled by the occurence of a number of LORs displayed on top of the dialogs/messages of the installer. The actual 9.0 CDs will not have WITNESS enabled. It would be nice if the LORs in question were actually fixed, however. - the file system of the installer/live system seems to be too small, leading to a number of "system full" messages as soon a few files are written to it. The live system is designed more as a fixit medium. What were you trying to do with it? Referring to a thread I found recently a propos the documentation on the install media, I also want to say that a proper installer must be able to do its work without any Internet connectivity. There exist systems which are not connected, and networks without any communication with the Internet. Which is why it behaves in exactly the way you suggest. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
.. wait, the install-off-USB doesn't default to a read-only boot? Adrian On 25 July 2011 08:11, Claude Buisson wrote: > On 07/24/2011 23:33, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: >> >> On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: >>> >>> I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not >>> payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 >>> and never really had a problem with understanding the installation >>> program. There is always a first time, I guess. >>> >>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ >>> >>> When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer >>> screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) >>> >>> I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe >>> something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our >>> employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to >>> have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? >>> >>> Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of >>> information on the flow of the installation. >>> >>> Thanks, >> >> Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you >> would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really >> helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much >> like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. >> -Nathan > > Recently I installed a system from the "official" memory stick May snapshot > (FreeBSD-9.0-CURRENT-201105-amd64-memstick.img). here are a few remarks: > > - the 1st thing I need to do is to configure the keyboard, as I am not in > the > US. This is needed for an install, but also for using it as a live system. > And > the keyboard configuration dialog is only a part of the installation > procedure. > > - the partition tool is too simple/rudimentary, compared to the old > sysinstall > dialog. I always want to have a total control of the partitions e.g. to have > a > proper alignement. So one must use the shell escape or the live system, > which is > a regression. > > - extracting the tarballs lead to (cryptic) errors: I discovered the hard > way > that I needed to execute a newfs. > > - I followed a succession of screens asking me to do the usual configuration > steps (hostname, clock, network - IPv4 only ?? -, users) and at the end I > get > back a screen asking me if a wanted to do the steps I had done just > before... > > - booting the installed system, I found that the hostname disappeared, the > keyboard was not configured, nor the network, and so on > > - during the whole process the screen was scrambled by the occurence of a > number > of LORs displayed on top of the dialogs/messages of the installer. > > - the file system of the installer/live system seems to be too small, > leading to > a number of "system full" messages as soon a few files are written to it. > > So the sole value added of the installer was the extraction of the > tarballs.. > > It seems that (on a memory stick which is writable) that every aborted > attempt > to do a configuration step leaves a "trace" in some files used by the > installer, > which is able to show it (e.g. the hostname) at the following attempts, but > without garantee that it will effectively be used. > > (On the other hand, the advantage of the memory stick is that the system on > it > can be configured at will) > > Referring to a thread I found recently a propos the documentation on the > install > media, I also want to say that a proper installer must be able to do its > work > without any Internet connectivity. There exist systems which are not > connected, > and networks without any communication with the Internet. > > Claude Buisson > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 07/24/2011 23:33, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan Recently I installed a system from the "official" memory stick May snapshot (FreeBSD-9.0-CURRENT-201105-amd64-memstick.img). here are a few remarks: - the 1st thing I need to do is to configure the keyboard, as I am not in the US. This is needed for an install, but also for using it as a live system. And the keyboard configuration dialog is only a part of the installation procedure. - the partition tool is too simple/rudimentary, compared to the old sysinstall dialog. I always want to have a total control of the partitions e.g. to have a proper alignement. So one must use the shell escape or the live system, which is a regression. - extracting the tarballs lead to (cryptic) errors: I discovered the hard way that I needed to execute a newfs. - I followed a succession of screens asking me to do the usual configuration steps (hostname, clock, network - IPv4 only ?? -, users) and at the end I get back a screen asking me if a wanted to do the steps I had done just before... - booting the installed system, I found that the hostname disappeared, the keyboard was not configured, nor the network, and so on - during the whole process the screen was scrambled by the occurence of a number of LORs displayed on top of the dialogs/messages of the installer. - the file system of the installer/live system seems to be too small, leading to a number of "system full" messages as soon a few files are written to it. So the sole value added of the installer was the extraction of the tarballs.. It seems that (on a memory stick which is writable) that every aborted attempt to do a configuration step leaves a "trace" in some files used by the installer, which is able to show it (e.g. the hostname) at the following attempts, but without garantee that it will effectively be used. (On the other hand, the advantage of the memory stick is that the system on it can be configured at will) Referring to a thread I found recently a propos the documentation on the install media, I also want to say that a proper installer must be able to do its work without any Internet connectivity. There exist systems which are not connected, and networks without any communication with the Internet. Claude Buisson ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan I'll have to agree with the original poster. I have no problem with the look and feel of the new installer, but when functionality that WAS there is now gone, that's a problem. My two, make that three, biggest gripes are: 1) no "back" button/selection/mechanism on each screen. Rebooting because I fat-fingered something on the previous screen is, well, unacceptable. 2) no "minimal" install. Most of my installs are single- or few-task servers where I need a base os and a couple ports. 3) I see no "post-install" uses on the new one. Sysinstall could be used on an up-and-running system to do everything from adding a user to changing a nameserver and more. -- Ron McDowell San Antonio TX ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
Quoting Nathan Whitehorn : On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan I do not get a menu that I can understand or relate to any of the installations that I have done previously. I will give it another try and try to explain what I don't understand. Thanks, ed P.S. Is their no documentation on what to expect? ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer.
On 07/24/11 16:29, eculp wrote: I have been hearing about a new installer but I obviously have not payed enough attention, I am afraid. I started running freebsd at 2.0 and never really had a problem with understanding the installation program. There is always a first time, I guess. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/201105/ When booting I seem to get a screen that makes me remember installer screens of the 1980s. (They were not exactly intuitive.) I somehow got the idea that the new installer was graphic. Maybe something like PCBsd that is not bad at all. I use it on all our employees computers. Actually, after seeing this, I would love to have the old installer back. Is their an option for that? Does this new ASCII installer have a "how to" with a bit of information on the flow of the installation. Thanks, Can you please describe what you didn't like about it, and what you would prefer be changed? "Reminiscent of the 1980s" is not really helpful, especially given that the new installer in fact looks very much like sysinstall, which you seemed to like. -Nathan ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
