On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 08:58:24PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 20:31:46 +0200, cpghost wrote:
> > BTW, since we're talking about vintage OSes: anyone knows of a
> > BS2000 clone, emulator, ...?
> >
> > http://ts.fujitsu.com/products/bs2000/index.html
> > http://en.wikipedia.org
so people do not be afraid to think outside the the box
Finally, out of my experience with Linux and FreeBSD is that once a
setup is working, it stays working, sometimes the initial setup takes
longer , I ll be honest, there have been times when I spent days
trying to get something working on
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 12:36:14PM -0500, Kirk Strauser wrote:
> On Tuesday 02 June 2009 10:59:51 am Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>
> > I would add - with Open Source add it's far smaller (actually close to
> > zero) probability that it doesn't do anything except it's supposed to do.
> >
> > I mean thin
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 02:33:28PM -0400, Thomas Dickey wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 11:46:21AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote:
> > The links browser's interface is crap, as is that of every other text
> > console based browser I've ever encountered. Moving around within a
> > page and selecting a l
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 08:20:24PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >Slight tangent, and you may have mentioned it before: What window manager
> >do you use?
>
> fvwm2, BUT not because i like it's tools and widgets, but because all of
> them can be easily turned off :)
>
> My configuration strips
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:17:17PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote:
> 2009/6/5 Chad Perrin :
> >
> > That's horrifying. Remind me to never visit one of your Webpages.
> >
> > Luckily, I can touch-type, because the temporary blindness induced by
> > that site when the bright yellow irradiated my retinas st
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 08:22:48PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >
> >That's horrifying. Remind me to never visit one of your Webpages.
> >
> >Luckily, I can touch-type, because the temporary blindness induced by
> >that site when the bright yellow irradiated my retinas still hasn't
> >entirely
2009/6/5 Chad Perrin :
> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:50:24PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote:
>> 2009/6/3 Roland Smith :
>> > On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:35:31PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:46:15 -0500, "Gary Gatten"
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Isn't there an "OpenVMS" somewhere?
>> >
>>
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 11:46:21AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote:
> The links browser's interface is crap, as is that of every other text
> console based browser I've ever encountered. Moving around within a
> page and selecting a link are two tasks for which text console based
> browsers have not prov
The OZONE OS [http://www.o3one.org/] uses a lot of VMS concepts.
I just LOVE the webpage. The kind of one I'd make in my spare time...
That's horrifying. Remind me to never visit one of your Webpages.
Luckily, I can touch-type, because the temporary blindness induced by
that site when the b
A counter-example is VMS. It is a commercial product, but highly
reliable and secure.
It's also a much *simpler* piece of software than something like MS
Windows, which makes it much easier to secure.
you meant more logical?
It's really hard to take care of software product that looks like r
Slight tangent, and you may have mentioned it before: What window manager
do you use?
fvwm2, BUT not because i like it's tools and widgets, but because all of
them can be easily turned off :)
My configuration strips everything possible including window titles and
borders, window moving and r
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:50:24PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote:
> 2009/6/3 Roland Smith :
> > On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:35:31PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> >> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:46:15 -0500, "Gary Gatten"
> >> wrote:
> >> > Isn't there an "OpenVMS" somewhere?
> >
> > There is an open source clone
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 04:06:18PM -0500, Gary Gatten wrote:
>
> Whatever happened to BeOS?
Be went out of business. There have been a couple of clone projects to
spring up since then. As mentioned, there's Haiku, the heir apparent to
BeOS at this point.
--
Chad Perrin [ original content lice
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:50:39PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
>
> A counter-example is VMS. It is a commercial product, but highly
> reliable and secure.
It's also a much *simpler* piece of software than something like MS
Windows, which makes it much easier to secure. That's just one more
thing Mi
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 08:32:38PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>
> Everyone can find them and fix, but at the same time everyone can find
> them and use them.
>
> With closed source both are more difficult.
That's not strictly true.
In general, it's easier to discover vulnerabilities through
On 6/5/09, Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 08:49:50AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>>
>> but it's at least much more difficult. And - my other rule fits very well
>> here. Avoid OVERCOMPLEX programs.
>
> I tend to agree with this take on things, and I follow a similar
> philosophy of
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 08:49:50AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>
> but it's at least much more difficult. And - my other rule fits very well
> here. Avoid OVERCOMPLEX programs.
I tend to agree with this take on things, and I follow a similar
philosophy of software choice.
Slight tangent, and
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 12:49:14AM +0100, Bruce Cran wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:59:51 +0200 (CEST)
> Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >
> > I would add - with Open Source add it's far smaller (actually close
> > to zero) probability that it doesn't do anything except it's supposed
> > to do.
> >
> >
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 07:59:55PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >>other programs i have on disk, my addressbook etc.
> >
> >YES!This is the biggest of the three things I have against MS
> >and one of the main reasons for using FreeBSD and other Open Source
> >software as much as possible.
>
On Thursday 04 June 2009 22:05:55 Mel Flynn wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 June 2009 19:26:00 Glen Barber wrote:
> > Hi, Mel
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Mel Flynn
> >
> > wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 02 June 2009 17:12:28 madunix wrote:
> > >> 3- General experience with Open Source technology?
>
On Wednesday 03 June 2009 19:26:00 Glen Barber wrote:
> Hi, Mel
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Mel Flynn
>
> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 02 June 2009 17:12:28 madunix wrote:
> >> 3- General experience with Open Source technology?
> >
> > Kinda getting fed up with the amount of trolling lately and
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 20:31:46 +0200, cpghost wrote:
> BTW, since we're talking about vintage OSes: anyone knows of a
> BS2000 clone, emulator, ...?
>
> http://ts.fujitsu.com/products/bs2000/index.html
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS2000
>
> I'm especially interested in an emulation of the old te
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 10:13:43PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:35:31PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> > On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:46:15 -0500, "Gary Gatten"
> > wrote:
> > > Isn't there an "OpenVMS" somewhere?
>
> There is an open source clone in the works: http://www.freevm
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 04:06:18PM -0500, Gary Gatten wrote:
> Whatever happened to BeOS?
http://www.haiku-os.org/
-cpghost.
--
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listi
2009/6/3 Polytropon :
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:50:24 +0100, Chris Rees wrote:
>> > The OZONE OS [http://www.o3one.org/] uses a lot of VMS concepts.
>>
>> I just LOVE the webpage. The kind of one I'd make in my spare time...
>
> Why? Because it's so L33T? :-)
>
>
Yeah, and the apologies for inclusi
-Original Message-
From: Polytropon [mailto:free...@edvax.de]
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:56 PM
To: utis...@gmail.com
Cc: Chris Rees; Roland Smith; Gary Gatten; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Open_Source
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:50:24 +0100, Chris Rees
wrote:
> > The
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:50:24 +0100, Chris Rees wrote:
> > The OZONE OS [http://www.o3one.org/] uses a lot of VMS concepts.
>
> I just LOVE the webpage. The kind of one I'd make in my spare time...
Why? Because it's so L33T? :-)
--
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4
The OZONE OS [http://www.o3one.org/] uses a lot of VMS concepts.
I just LOVE the webpage. The kind of one I'd make in my spare time...
i have no VMS knowledge so for now i just booted it on qemu and on
computer directly.
loads quickly, i logged in and for now don't know any more ;)
___
2009/6/3 Roland Smith :
> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:35:31PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:46:15 -0500, "Gary Gatten" wrote:
>> > Isn't there an "OpenVMS" somewhere?
>
> There is an open source clone in the works: http://www.freevms.net/
> No idea of the state it is in.
>
> The
There is an open source clone in the works: http://www.freevms.net/
No idea of the state it is in.
basically doesn't work.
The OZONE OS [http://www.o3one.org/] uses a lot of VMS concepts.
downloading
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
h
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:35:31PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:46:15 -0500, "Gary Gatten" wrote:
> > Isn't there an "OpenVMS" somewhere?
There is an open source clone in the works: http://www.freevms.net/
No idea of the state it is in.
The OZONE OS [http://www.o3one.org/] u
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:08:50 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar
wrote:
> > Isn't there an "OpenVMS" somewhere? Is it true OSS?
>
> No. it's just product name, and is closed source.
Yes.
> They changed the name when IMHO it started to provide some api
> that allow porting apps from other systems
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:46:15 -0500, "Gary Gatten" wrote:
> Isn't there an "OpenVMS" somewhere?
VMS is called OpenVMS today, and owned by HP, if I remember
correctly - I didn't check, sorry.ö
> Is it true OSS?
No. I mentioned VMS as an example that even closed source
can be of high quality (as
Yes, and that old urban legend, that Windows NT is "better" than VMS, so
the initials are one higher in each position - at least in my alphabet:
Actually - this man and few others from Digital made good job on kernel
programming. Micro-soft f..ed everything else up.
___
Isn't there an "OpenVMS" somewhere? Is it true OSS?
No. it's just product name, and is closed source.
They changed the name when IMHO it started to provide some api
that allow porting apps from other systems (like unix) easier.
Also, how many people actually review source code AND have the
riate
topic for this list? ;-)
-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org
[mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of David Kelly
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:49 PM
To: Wojciech Puchar
Cc: cpghost; Polytropon; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Glen Bar
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 08:32:38PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>
> >A counter-example is VMS. It is a commercial product, but highly
> >reliable and secure.
>
> At least is said too, i never used or even seen VMS.
When Digital Equipment Corporation collapsed, the architect(s) of VMS
went to Mi
t I can do it, but I can pay someone to WAY
faster than getting M$ or others fix anything!
-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org
[mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Wojciech
Puchar
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:33 PM
To: Polytropon
Cc: cpghost;
I'd like to add that IF security problems get discovered in OSS,
it's usually just a matter of few time that this problem gets
corrected. This is mostly because the public is able to look at
that's true - i pointed it out at the beginning.
It can be found easily that someone adds backdoor inten
On Tuesday 02 June 2009 10:59:51 am Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> I would add - with Open Source add it's far smaller (actually close to
> zero) probability that it doesn't do anything except it's supposed to do.
>
> I mean things like sending private data to someone else, scanning for
> other programs
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 18:21:28 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar
wrote:
> open source - just by being opensource - can't guarantee anything more
> that availability of sources.
>
> It's important to stay away of all that hype that opensource programs are
> just better.
>
> Many are, many not.
I'd l
* /usr/ports/security/xspy
but this do. so 2 X servers are compulsory... thanks
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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@f
On Tuesday 02 June 2009 17:12:28 madunix wrote:
> 3- General experience with Open Source technology?
Kinda getting fed up with the amount of trolling lately and loving Sieve.
--
Mel
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.or
Another perfect example that open source alone can't guarantee
open source - just by being opensource - can't guarantee anything more
that availability of sources.
It's important to stay away of all that hype that opensource programs are
just better.
Many are, many not.
_
* http://www.randombit.net/code/logger.c
compiled this, did
./logger 0xed
where 0xed was my other xterm
then typed at least 10 lines at that xterm window
got:
-rw--- 1 wojtek wheel0 3 cze 18:23 logger-ed.log
___
freebsd-
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 04:45:42PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >> You mean Xorg can easily be hijack'ed that way?
> >
> > If you can connect to the X server, you can also attach any
> > kind of monitoring software to it. Think vncserver and the like...
>
> vncserver creater new X server. Can't
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:53:07AM -0400, Glen Barber wrote:
> My colleagues never understood (nor do they to this day) my paranoia
> regarding security and untrusted code. I always point them in the
> same direction:
>
> http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
YES! An absolute classic. We're
Oh yes indeed: THAT's always bee the more serious threat,
security-wise.
A colleague of mine is a Windows administrator for a local company. I
didn't think people actually did this until he told me a little
People do even more things. In my public internet access network i found
that 90% of
You mean Xorg can easily be hijack'ed that way?
If you can connect to the X server, you can also attach any
kind of monitoring software to it. Think vncserver and the like...
vncserver creater new X server. Can't monitor yours unless you have
special module for X server installed and loaded (
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:33 AM, cpghost wrote:
>> There are MUCH simpler methods. Just pay few bucks to charwoman to look at
>> papers glued to monitor with passwords on them ;), or maybe a minute more
>> to look at different places.
>
> Oh yes indeed: THAT's always bee the more serious threat,
>
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 01:15:32PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> > there, it's easy to hijack the X session (including keylogging etc.).
>
> You mean Xorg can easily be hijack'ed that way?
If you can connect to the X server, you can also attach any
kind of monitoring software to it. Think vncse
virtualbox) dedicated to this purpose and this purpose only.
Exaggeration IMHO. just make sure your normal user has 700 permissions,
create another and run browser from it.
What about permissions in X? Even if you started the browser as
another user, you'd still have to xhost + that user. And
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 11:24:02AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> > secondarily and only when absolutely necessary with the usual
> > firefox+noscript+abp... both browsers running in a virtual box (qemu,
> > virtualbox) dedicated to this purpose and this purpose only.
>
> Exaggeration IMHO. just
Unfortunately there are no well done WWW browsers for unix in the world.
links -g is an exceptions, but in the same time it's quite limited.
But have best fonts :)
You're right: browser code is overly complex, and a nightmare to audit
properly for security purposes.
links is not complex, and R
On 6/3/09, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>>> Unfortunately there are no well done WWW browsers for unix in the world.
>>> links -g is an exceptions, but in the same time it's quite limited.
>>> But have best fonts :)
>>
>> You're right: browser code is overly complex, and a nightmare to audit
>> properly
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 08:49:50AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >>
> >> I mean things like sending private data to someone else, scanning for
> >> other programs i have on disk, my addressbook etc.
> >
> > Given enough incentive, it unfortunately seems even open source
> > developers will resort
I want to know out of your experience people the following,
1- How open source served your businesses requirements?
Better performance, stability & savings.
Only saving is a feature of Open Source software. Others are features of
just particular programs you use!
2- What kind of applic
I mean things like sending private data to someone else, scanning for
other programs i have on disk, my addressbook etc.
Given enough incentive, it unfortunately seems even open source
developers will resort to sneaky tactics:
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/mozilla-ponders-poli
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:42 PM, madunix wrote:
> Dear Experts,
>
> I want to know out of your experience people the following,
> 1- How open source served your businesses requirements?
Better performance, stability & savings.
> 2- What kind of application that running on Open Source?
I've seen m
Bruce Cran wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:59:51 +0200 (CEST)
> Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>> I mean things like sending private data to someone else, scanning for
>> other programs i have on disk, my addressbook etc.
>
> Given enough incentive, it unfortunately seems even open source
> developers w
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 08:12, madunix wrote:
> Dear Experts,
That's an incorrect assumption! Heh. No expert me...
> I want to know out of your experience people the following,
> 1- How open source served your businesses requirements?
Low cost implementations of useful tools for spam/virus miti
On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:59:51 +0200 (CEST)
Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> > I believe people can get more experience in general with open source
> > technologies than they can with closed source. The reason is
> > simple: I can look at the code. I can study it. I can see what
> > ${APPLICATION} is doi
2009/6/2 Wojciech Puchar :
>>
>> Multiple linux/bsd distributions: (RHEL, SuSE, FreeBSD + commercial
>> UNIX as AIX)
>> Monitoring Application:(Cacti, Nagios, MRTG)
>> Backup utility:(rsync, tar, mondo)
>> Content Management system:(Jommla, Durpal)
>> Virtualization:(Wine)
>
> wine is virtualizatio
Multiple linux/bsd distributions: (RHEL, SuSE, FreeBSD + commercial
UNIX as AIX)
Monitoring Application:(Cacti, Nagios, MRTG)
Backup utility:(rsync, tar, mondo)
Content Management system:(Jommla, Durpal)
Virtualization:(Wine)
wine is virtualization?
in my case i have the following:
Multiple linux/bsd distributions: (RHEL, SuSE, FreeBSD + commercial
UNIX as AIX)
Monitoring Application:(Cacti, Nagios, MRTG)
Backup utility:(rsync, tar, mondo)
Content Management system:(Jommla, Durpal)
Virtualization:(Wine)
Web Server:(Apache)
Web filtering:(Squi
There will always be both of them. And that's OK as long as you can choose.
Yes, I agree.
I use Windows as my workstation, because there are some specific
applications that require Windows to run.
You don't have to explain - you use because you want to :) that's all.
Being able to modify so
But i'm not agains micro-soft. If someone want to pay and be
controlled - his problem.
Today micro-soft doesn't even hide with this!! So it's clear - you pay big
brother and he does well the job he's paid for!
I am, -- on my machines.
but you want to be the owner of your computer. But most p
Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>> The only rationale I've heard for closed source is that somebody
>> could
>> steal the idea.
>
> There will always be both of them. And that's OK as long as you can choose.
Yes, I agree.
I use Windows as my workstation, because there are some specific
applicatio
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 07:44:46PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >>I mean things like sending private data to someone else, scanning for
> >>other programs i have on disk, my addressbook etc.
> >
> >YES!This is the biggest of the three things I have against MS
> >and one of the main reasons
other programs i have on disk, my addressbook etc.
YES!This is the biggest of the three things I have against MS
and one of the main reasons for using FreeBSD and other Open Source
software as much as possible.
I think we all forget about third case, open and closed source being first
two
The only rationale I've heard for closed source is that somebody could
steal the idea.
There will always be both of them. And that's OK as long as you can
choose.
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I mean things like sending private data to someone else, scanning for
other programs i have on disk, my addressbook etc.
YES!This is the biggest of the three things I have against MS
and one of the main reasons for using FreeBSD and other Open Source
software as much as possible.
But i'm n
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 12:18:09PM -0400, Steve Bertrand wrote:
> madunix wrote:
> > Dear Experts,
> >
> > I want to know out of your experience people the following,
>
> > 1- How open source served your businesses requirements?
>
> Our business would likely not exist if it weren't for Open Sou
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 05:59:51PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >I believe people can get more experience in general with open source
> >technologies than they can with closed source. The reason is simple:
> >I can look at the code. I can study it. I can see what
> >${APPLICATION} is doing,
madunix wrote:
> Dear Experts,
>
> I want to know out of your experience people the following,
> 1- How open source served your businesses requirements?
Our business would likely not exist if it weren't for Open Source
(and/or free) software. Other than our Windows workstations, a few
Windows s
I believe people can get more experience in general with open source
technologies than they can with closed source. The reason is simple:
I can look at the code. I can study it. I can see what
${APPLICATION} is doing, and how the developer designed it. This, in
itself, makes me better at what
I want to know out of your experience people the following,
1- How open source served your businesses requirements?
excellent.
2- What kind of application that running on Open Source?
All i needed - do you want a list ?
3- General experience with Open Source technology?
what exactly y
Hi,
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:12 AM, madunix wrote:
> Dear Experts,
>
> I want to know out of your experience people the following,
> 1- How open source served your businesses requirements?
Allowing extensibility. Generally, if something needs to be changed,
it _can_ be changed, and usually wi
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