Re: software support

[Dmitry Sarkisov]

On 26-03-2013, Tue [10:10:46], Oblitey, Edmund wrote:
> I am trying to install FreeBSD on a E7520/6300ESB chipset. Program
> freezes during probing devices. It always restart when it gets to the
> atkbd0. Want to know if u can help me on it.
> 

Sometimes it helps to disable ACPI support in the loader menu, and enable 
debugging.
You could also try to reset your system's BIOS settings, if you know what 
you're doing of course. ;)


-- 

Dmitry Sarkisov
 <-\ Powered by
 <---o
 <-/ FreeBSD
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Re: software support

[Matthew Seaman]

On 26/03/2013 14:10, Oblitey, Edmund wrote:
> I am trying to install FreeBSD on a E7520/6300ESB chipset. Program
> freezes during probing devices. It always restart when it gets to the
> atkbd0. Want to know if u can help me on it.

Sounds like there's something on-board that either isn't supported or
that doesn't get the right driver bound to it.  Or that might possibly
be defective.

What version of FreeBSD are you trying to install?

Can you definitely run other OSes without problems on this same hardware?

Can you try disconnecting as many non-essential peripherals as possible
and see if that allows FreeBSD to boot?

Cheers,

Matthew


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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Warren Block]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:

Also, not being able to boot if first disk has some error in boot 
section or just strangly dead is not an option too. However, i was 
just thinking, if i use gmirror then bios does not know anything about 
it. I may set both harddisk as boot disk, but if first disk is brain 
damaged then bios may just stuck trying to boot from it and will not 
pass boot attempt to the second disk. I don't know, it depends on bios 
of course. But this seems to be a disadvantage to a software raid.


That's true.  The similar situation with hardware RAID is when the 
controller fails.  The metadata is probably specific to that 
manufacturer and maybe to that model of controller.  It's a good idea to 
get spares, because as Murphy is my witness, in an emergency that 
controller will not be available in the same town, district, country, or 
continent.  More likely it will have been long discontinued, with no 
data migration path.

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Artem Kuchin]

30.01.2013 19:28, Paul Kraus:

On Jan 30, 2013, at 10:22 AM, Warren Block wrote:


If you want to use the same drive for booting, it's possible.  Create all three 
partitions on both drives manually.  Then mirror the freebsd-ufs partition 
only.  The contents of the freebsd-boot partition don't change often, and swap 
does not have to be mirrored.

Note that if you do NOT mirror SWAP, then in the event of a disk 
failure you will most likely crash when the system tries to swap in some data 
from the failed drive. If you mirror swap then you do not risk a crash due to 
missing swap data.



yes, that's what i wanted to say.
Also, not being able to boot if first disk has some error in boot 
section or just strangly dead is not an option too. However, i was just 
thinking,
if i use gmirror then bios does not know anything about it. I may set 
both harddisk as boot disk, but if first disk is brain damaged then bios 
may just stuck
trying to boot from it and will not pass boot attempt to the second 
disk. I don't know, it depends on bios of course. But this seems to be a 
disadvantage to

a software raid.

Artem



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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Paul Kraus]

On Jan 30, 2013, at 10:22 AM, Warren Block wrote:

> If you want to use the same drive for booting, it's possible.  Create all 
> three partitions on both drives manually.  Then mirror the freebsd-ufs 
> partition only.  The contents of the freebsd-boot partition don't change 
> often, and swap does not have to be mirrored.

Note that if you do NOT mirror SWAP, then in the event of a disk 
failure you will most likely crash when the system tries to swap in some data 
from the failed drive. If you mirror swap then you do not risk a crash due to 
missing swap data.

--
Paul Kraus
Deputy Technical Director, LoneStarCon 3
Sound Coordinator, Schenectady Light Opera Company

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Warren Block]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:


30.01.2013 18:06, Warren Block:


GPT partitions should work, just limit it to one mirrored partition per 
drive.


Please, clarify what you mean here.


If only one GPT partition on a drive is mirrored with another GPT partition 
on another drive, head contention never comes up.  There is only one 
mirror.


It does nearly eliminate the usefulness of GPT partitioning.

Um... and how can i do that if i have a simple mirror with two drives and 
want to mirror everything on them? As i understand i will have at least
bootable, swap and ufs parttions on those drives, that is 3 partitions at 
least.


If you want to use the same drive for booting, it's possible.  Create 
all three partitions on both drives manually.  Then mirror the 
freebsd-ufs partition only.  The contents of the freebsd-boot partition 
don't change often, and swap does not have to be mirrored.


Not that it's easy or convenient, but it's an option.
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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Artem Kuchin]

There seems to be one more advantage to gmirror
If i understood correctly

gmirror label -v -b split -s 2048 data da0 da1 da2

will create a tripple mirror raid 1, that is
triple redundancy, which is hardly available on any hardware raid.

Am i correct here?

Also, does anyone know how to choose split threshold (-s 2048) correctly ?

Artem




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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Paul Kraus]

On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:10 AM, Andrea Venturoli wrote:

> You can spend the extra money you spare on the controller buying good disks; 
> as someone else pointed out don't get "desktop-class" ones, but "24x7" ones.

Server Class drives buy you some improvement, but my recent experience with 
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 drives is not that good. I have had 50% of them fail 
within the 5-year warranty period. My disks run 24x7 and I use ZFS under 
FreeBSD 9 so I have not lost any data. I have:

2 x Seagate ES.2 250 GB (one has failed)
4 x Seagate ES.2 1 TB (two have failed)
2 x Hitachi UltraStar 1 TB (pre-WD acquisition), no failures, but they are less 
than 2 years old. They are also noticeably faster than the Seagate ES.2

I just ordered 2 x WD RE4 500 GB, we'll see how those do

I go out of my way to purchase disks with a 5-year warranty, they are still out 
there but you have to look for them.

--
Paul Kraus
Deputy Technical Director, LoneStarCon 3
Sound Coordinator, Schenectady Light Opera Company

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Artem Kuchin]

30.01.2013 18:06, Warren Block:

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:



30.01.2013 1:01, Warren Block:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:



29.01.2013 18:57, Warren Block:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:

The Handbook chapter on gmirror talks about the problems with GPT 
and GEOM metadata.  In short: right now, they conflict. It's 
possible to mirror GPT partitions, but be aware that if you mirror 
more than one partition on a drive, a rebuild after replacing a 
drive could thrash the heads as mirrors are rebuilt simultaneously.


http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html 



So,
gmirror+GPT=conflict on last sector
GPT+gmirror = hardrive head kill

nice...

So, for no more than 2TB disks the best way to go is GMIRROR of the 
drive +PARTITION on top of it?


GPT partitions should work, just limit it to one mirrored partition 
per drive.


Please, clarify what you mean here.


If only one GPT partition on a drive is mirrored with another GPT 
partition on another drive, head contention never comes up.  There is 
only one mirror.


It does nearly eliminate the usefulness of GPT partitioning.

Um... and how can i do that if i have a simple mirror with two drives 
and want to mirror everything on them? As i understand i will have at least
bootable, swap and ufs parttions on those drives, that is 3 partitions 
at least.


Artem
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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Warren Block]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:



30.01.2013 1:01, Warren Block:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:



29.01.2013 18:57, Warren Block:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:

The Handbook chapter on gmirror talks about the problems with GPT and 
GEOM metadata.  In short: right now, they conflict. It's possible to 
mirror GPT partitions, but be aware that if you mirror more than one 
partition on a drive, a rebuild after replacing a drive could thrash the 
heads as mirrors are rebuilt simultaneously.


http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html 



So,
gmirror+GPT=conflict on last sector
GPT+gmirror = hardrive head kill

nice...

So, for no more than 2TB disks the best way to go is GMIRROR of the drive 
+PARTITION on top of it?


GPT partitions should work, just limit it to one mirrored partition per 
drive.


Please, clarify what you mean here.


If only one GPT partition on a drive is mirrored with another GPT 
partition on another drive, head contention never comes up.  There is 
only one mirror.


It does nearly eliminate the usefulness of GPT partitioning.
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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Andrea Venturoli]

On 01/28/13 21:43, Artem Kuchin wrote:


I am planning to use mirror configuration of two SATA 7200rpm 2TB disks.


I personally vote for gmirror in this case; I've used it a lot and found 
it very good wrt to both performance and robustness.


You can spend the extra money you spare on the controller buying good 
disks; as someone else pointed out don't get "desktop-class" ones, but 
"24x7" ones.


Just my 2c.

 bye
av.

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Artem Kuchin]

30.01.2013 1:01, Warren Block:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:



29.01.2013 18:57, Warren Block:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:

The Handbook chapter on gmirror talks about the problems with GPT 
and GEOM metadata.  In short: right now, they conflict. It's 
possible to mirror GPT partitions, but be aware that if you mirror 
more than one partition on a drive, a rebuild after replacing a 
drive could thrash the heads as mirrors are rebuilt simultaneously.


http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html 





So,
gmirror+GPT=conflict on last sector
GPT+gmirror = hardrive head kill

nice...

So, for no more than 2TB disks the best way to go is GMIRROR of the 
drive +PARTITION on top of it?


GPT partitions should work, just limit it to one mirrored partition 
per drive.


Please, clarify what you mean here.



Or maybe there is a way to instruct gmirror do rebuild only what i 
say (manual rebuild) ?


'gmirror configure -n' ?  Have not tried it.  The trick would be to do 
that before multiple mirrors start rebuilding, which they will as soon 
as geom_mirror.ko is loaded.




As i understand from the man page -n  setup the device not to auto 
rebuild  ever. So, this is probably the thing i want.  I need to setup a 
test system and play with it

a bit.


Artem
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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Modulok]

> My other concern is what happens when one drive goes down if we use
> gmirror? Is it completelly transparent
> and bad drive can be hot swapped while server is running and rebuild
> started?
> I am thinking now about gpt+gmirror (including boot and swap)
>
> Artem
>

Yes. In fact, you can test this by unplugging the data or power cable to a
drive while the server is running. I've done this with consumer sata drives
and, so far, not had a problem. The server stays up and running and disk access
is not interrupted. I can then plug in a new disk and add it to the gmirror and
the array rebuilds.

I've not tried this with gpt, so I can't comment there.
-Modulok-
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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Warren Block]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:



29.01.2013 18:57, Warren Block:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:

The Handbook chapter on gmirror talks about the problems with GPT and GEOM 
metadata.  In short: right now, they conflict.  It's possible to mirror GPT 
partitions, but be aware that if you mirror more than one partition on a 
drive, a rebuild after replacing a drive could thrash the heads as mirrors 
are rebuilt simultaneously.


http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html 





So,
gmirror+GPT=conflict on last sector
GPT+gmirror = hardrive head kill

nice...

So, for no more than 2TB disks the best way to go is GMIRROR of the drive 
+PARTITION on top of it?


GPT partitions should work, just limit it to one mirrored partition per 
drive.


Or maybe there is a way to instruct gmirror do rebuild only what i say 
(manual rebuild) ?


'gmirror configure -n' ?  Have not tried it.  The trick would be to do 
that before multiple mirrors start rebuilding, which they will as soon 
as geom_mirror.ko is loaded.

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Mark Felder]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:57:31 -0600, Warren Block   
wrote:


As far a gmirror is concerned, yes, drives can be removed and new drives  
inserted while the mirror is running.  Hot swap is more of an issue with  
the hardware.  I have not tried it with SATA drives, although I think it  
should work.
 The Handbook chapter on gmirror talks about the problems with GPT and  
GEOM metadata.  In short: right now, they conflict.  It's possible to  
mirror GPT partitions, but be aware that if you mirror more than one  
partition on a drive, a rebuild after replacing a drive could thrash the  
heads as mirrors are rebuilt simultaneously.
  
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html


Why isn't gmirror more intelligent? I hate to use Linux as an example, but  
mdadm won't simultaneously rebuild multiple RAID sets if they use the same  
physical providers to prevent this. Could this be added as a feature? Even  
a sysctl toggle?

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Artem Kuchin]

29.01.2013 18:57, Warren Block:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:

The Handbook chapter on gmirror talks about the problems with GPT and 
GEOM metadata.  In short: right now, they conflict.  It's possible to 
mirror GPT partitions, but be aware that if you mirror more than one 
partition on a drive, a rebuild after replacing a drive could thrash 
the heads as mirrors are rebuilt simultaneously.


http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html 






So,
gmirror+GPT=conflict on last sector
GPT+gmirror = hardrive head kill

nice...

So, for no more than 2TB disks the best way to go is GMIRROR of the 
drive +PARTITION on top of it?
Or maybe there is a way to instruct gmirror do rebuild only what i say 
(manual rebuild) ?


Artem




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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Warren Block]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Artem Kuchin wrote:

My other concern is what happens when one drive goes down if we use gmirror? 
Is it completelly transparent

and bad drive can be hot swapped while server is running and rebuild started?
I am thinking now about gpt+gmirror (including boot and swap)


As far a gmirror is concerned, yes, drives can be removed and new drives 
inserted while the mirror is running.  Hot swap is more of an issue with 
the hardware.  I have not tried it with SATA drives, although I think it 
should work.


The Handbook chapter on gmirror talks about the problems with GPT and 
GEOM metadata.  In short: right now, they conflict.  It's possible to 
mirror GPT partitions, but be aware that if you mirror more than one 
partition on a drive, a rebuild after replacing a drive could thrash the 
heads as mirrors are rebuilt simultaneously.


http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Michael Powell]

Artem Kuchin wrote:

[snip]
> The server is going to be a web server with many sites and with mysql
> running on it. Nothing really really
> heavy. Currently with run all this on our own server with 8 cores and
> 16GB ram and 3ware raid1
> and cpu load is about 5% :) Everything is quick and responsive. I hope
> to see the same on a software raid.

The controller would be a slight concern. But for what you've described 
doing I doubt it will be a big deal. The 3Ware may have a faster processor 
on it than say a generic onboard built-in. But since all we're talking here 
is a RAID 1 mirror my guess is it may not be a big enough difference to see. 
Writes will be just as if you are writing to 1 drive, reads will be faster. 
Maybe that 5% cpu load turns into 6% or 7%.
 
> I really don't want to deploy ZFS on a new server where all these site
> need to migrate because i am kind of
> "don't fix it if it is not broken" kind of guy.
> UFS+journaling+softupdates served us well for years and snapshots
> are available on ufs too.

I understand; I've only played around with ZFS some on Solaris. I may move 
in that direction some day, but for now
 
> My other concern is what happens when one drive goes down if we use
> gmirror? Is it completelly transparent
> and bad drive can be hot swapped while server is running and rebuild
> started?
> I am thinking now about gpt+gmirror (including boot and swap)

I've never actually hot-swapped one but I can't see any reason why not. You 
can't use the gmirror remove directive when a drive has failed, but you do a 
gmirror forget  , swap it, then just do gmirror insert  to 
insert the replaced drive into the mirror. When everything is working as it 
should gmirror is mostly 'automatic', e.g. after the insert the rebuild just 
starts. Main thing I appreciated about this is the server stayed up and 
online after one drive died. 

My two servers at home are my testbeds to test out things first before doing 
stuff to the ones at work. I just installed both to 9.1. The difference now is 
I've used GPT (gpart) and this is new to me. Previously everything was 
always fdisk and disklabel. Both these machines are setup on one drive at 
this point and I haven't yet gotten into the mirroring yet.  

With the old fdisk/disklabel it was simple to just mirror the entire drive 
itself (slice). The other approach is to mirror partitions. I think I may 
need to do this as I think this is the way you have to proceed in order to 
avoid having gpt and gmirror both trying to claim the last sector on the 
drive (metadata storage). 

-Mike


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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Artem Kuchin]

29.01.2013 11:54, Michael Powell:

Artem Kuchin wrote:


I guess what I'm trying to point out is that low performance wrt software
RAID will stem from other things besides just simply consuming a few CPU
cycles. Today's CPUs have the cycles to spare.  I've been using gmirror for
RAID 1 mirrors for a few years now and am happy with this. I have had a few
old drives die and the servers stayed up and online. This allowed me to
defer the actual drive replacement and not have to drop everything and fight
fire.



Thank you everyone for replying.

I realize that many other things affect the performance, not only the 
CPU power. For example,
disk IO kernel multithreading is one of the things. But i guess in FBSD 
9 it is more or less solved.
The server is going to be a web server with many sites and with mysql 
running on it. Nothing really really
heavy. Currently with run all this on our own server with 8 cores and 
16GB ram and 3ware raid1
and cpu load is about 5% :) Everything is quick and responsive. I hope 
to see the same on a software raid.


I really don't want to deploy ZFS on a new server where all these site 
need to migrate because i am kind of
"don't fix it if it is not broken" kind of guy. 
UFS+journaling+softupdates served us well for years and snapshots

are available on ufs too.

My other concern is what happens when one drive goes down if we use 
gmirror? Is it completelly transparent
and bad drive can be hot swapped while server is running and rebuild 
started?

I am thinking now about gpt+gmirror (including boot and swap)

Artem

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Michael Powell]

Artem Kuchin wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I have to made a decision on choosing a dedicated server.
> The problem i see is that while i can find very affordable and good
> options they do not
> provide hardware raid or even if they do it is not the best hardware for
> freebsd.
> The server base conf is 8core 32gb ram 2.8+ ghz.
> So, maybe someone has personal experience with both worlds and can tell
> if it
> really matters in such configuration if i go for software raid. What are
> the benefits
> and what are the negatives of software raid? How much is the performance
> penalty?
> I am planning to use mirror configuration of two SATA 7200rpm 2TB disks.
> Nothing fancy.
> File system planned is UFS with journaling.

I can't say for sure exactly what's best for your needs, however, please 
allow me to toss out some very generic tidbits which may aid you in some 
way.

Historically back when RAID was new, hardware controllers were the only way 
to go. Back then I would never look at software RAID for a server machine. 
Best to offload as much work away from the CPU as possible to free it up for 
running the OS. What has changed is the amount of raw horsepower available 
from modern-day processors as compared to when RAID first came out. On the 
multi-core monster CPUs of today software RAID is a perfectly viable 
consideration because there are CPU cycles to spare, so the "performance 
penalty" is less now than it once was.

Having said that, there are several other considerations to keep in mind as 
well. The type of RAID required matters. If you want/need RAID 5/6 it is 
definitely better to go with hardware RAID because of the horsepower 
required to do the XOR parity generation. You would want RAID 5/6 running on 
a hardware controller and not on the CPU. On the other hand, RAID 0, 1, and 
10 are fine candidates for software RAID.

One thing I've noticed that seems to somewhat get lost in this discussion  
is equating software-based RAID with not needing to spend money on the 
expensive RAID controller. At first glance it does seem like quite a waste 
to spend hundreds of dollars on a really fast RAID controller and then turn 
all its functionality off and just use it JBOD style. If you truly want 
performance you still need the processing power of the hardware chip on the 
(expensive) controller. Most central to this is I/Os per second. This 
matters more to some workloads than others, with being a database server 
probably at the top of the list where I/Os per second is king. The better 
the chip on the controller card the more I/Os per second.

Another thing that matters less wrt to server hardware is the third kind of 
RAID known as "fake" or "pseudo" RAID. This is mostly found on desktop PC 
motherboards and some low-end (cheap) hardware cards. There is a config in 
the BIOS to set up so-called "RAID", but it is only half of the matter - the 
other half is in the driver. FreeBSD does indeed have support for some of 
these "fake RAID" things but I stay far far away from them. Either go 
hardware or pure software only - the fakeraid is crap. 

Another thing I'd warn you about is the drives themselves. Take a look:

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1397

Many people get very lucky much of the time and don't experience problems 
with this. Using drives designed for desktop PCs with RAID can be prone to 
problem. Drives designed for servers are more expensive, but I've always 
felt it is better to put server drives in servers.   :-) 

In terms of a 'performance penalty' what you will find is it gets shifted 
away from just losing a few CPU cycles into other areas. If the drives are 
Advanced Format 4k sector critters and they aren't properly aligned in the 
partitioning phase of set up performance will take a hit. If the controller 
chip they are hooked up to is slow, then the entire drive subsystem will 
suffer. Another thing you will find that will surface as a problem area is 
the shift away from the old style DOS MBR scheme and towards GPT. Software 
RAID (and indeed hardware controllers too) store their metadata at the end 
of the drive and needs to be "outside" the file system. The problem arises 
when both the software raid and the GPT partitioning try to store metadata to 
the same location and collide. Just knowing about this in advance and 
spending some quality reading time about it prior to trying to set up the 
box will help greatly. Plenty has been written (even in this list) about 
this subject by people smarter than me so the info you need is out there, 
albeit it can be confusing at first. 

I guess what I'm trying to point out is that low performance wrt software 
RAID will stem from other things besides just simply consuming a few CPU 
cycles. Today's CPUs have the cycles to spare.  I've been using gmirror for 
RAID 1 mirrors for a few years now and am happy with this. I have had a few 
old drives die and the servers stayed up and online. This allowed me to 
defer the actual dr

Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Paul Kraus]

On Jan 28, 2013, at 3:43 PM, Artem Kuchin wrote:

> I have to made a decision on choosing a dedicated server.
> The problem i see is that while i can find very affordable and good options 
> they do not
> provide hardware raid or even if they do it is not the best hardware for 
> freebsd.

I prefer SW RAID, specifically ZFS, for two very large reasons:

1) Visibility: From the OS layer you have very good visibility into the health 
of the RAID set and the underlying drives. All of the lower end HW RAID 
solutions I have seen require proprietary software to "manage" the RAID 
configuration, usually from the physical system's BIOS layer. Finding good OS 
layer software to monitor the RAID and the drives has been very painful. If you 
don't know you have a failure, then you can't do anything about it and when you 
have a second failure you lose data. Running a HW RAID system and not being 
able to issue a simple command from the OS and see the status of the RAID 
scares me.

2) Error Detection and Correction: HW RAID relies on the drives to report read 
and write errors. With UNCORRECTABLE error rates of 10^-14 and 10^-15 and LARGE 
(1 TB plus) drives you are almost guaranteed to statistically run into 
UNCORRECTABLE errors over the life of a typical drive. ZFS has end to end 
checksums and can detect a single bad bit from a drive, if the set is redundant 
it can recreate the correct data and re-write it, effectively correcting the 
bad data on disk.

NOTE: Larger, more expensive HW RAID systems address both of the above issues, 
but at a much higher cost in terms of money and management overhead.

DISCLAIMER: I have been managing mission critical, cannot afford to lose it 
data under ZFS for over 5 years, with no loss of data (even with some horribly 
unreliable low cost HW RAID systems under the ZFS layer... if we had not used 
ZFS we would have lost data multiple times).  

--
Paul Kraus
Deputy Technical Director, LoneStarCon 3
Sound Coordinator, Schenectady Light Opera Company

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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Daniel Feenberg]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:


On 01/28/13 21:43, Artem Kuchin wrote:

Hello!

I have to made a decision on choosing a dedicated server.
The problem i see is that while i can find very affordable and good
options they do not
provide hardware raid or even if they do it is not the best hardware for
freebsd.
The server base conf is 8core 32gb ram 2.8+ ghz.
So, maybe someone has personal experience with both worlds and can tell
if it
really matters in such configuration if i go for software raid. What are
the benefits
and what are the negatives of software raid? How much is the performance
penalty?
I am planning to use mirror configuration of two SATA 7200rpm 2TB disks.
Nothing fancy.
File system planned is UFS with journaling.



I won't delve into detail here but if the data is important HW RAID is
where you want to be. Perhaps you could give us a little more details


A problem with HW RAID is that if the controller breaks, you need to get 
an identical controller to replace it, or the data will be lost. With 
software raid, you can read the data on any machine that will boot 
FreeBSD. That is a great convenience compared to searching eBay for an 
obsolete controller with the proper rev level.


We haven't noticed any speed disadvantage on modern multi-core hardware 
and RAID 1. The advantages of HW raid escape me - I understand that 
years ago it provided OS independence and reduced CPU load, but it no 
longer provides the former, and with 8 cores do you need the latter while 
waiting for a disk platter to spin?


ZFS is worthwhile, too, especially since you have a good amount of memory. 
That would give you snapshots and some other desirable features, such as 
background scanning for defects that UFS doesn't have.



about what the purpose of the server is? Mission-critical or low cost?
Those two tends to be mutually exclusive...


Surely the presence of SATA drives shows that low cost is essential.

Mirroring and ZFS provide very important advantages. HW raid seems to fill 
a much needed gap (apologies to Brian Kernigan).


daniel feenberg




We are HP-only but have good experience from LSI as well.

Just my $0.02.


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Re: Software raid VS hardware raid

[Per olof Ljungmark]

On 01/28/13 21:43, Artem Kuchin wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I have to made a decision on choosing a dedicated server.
> The problem i see is that while i can find very affordable and good
> options they do not
> provide hardware raid or even if they do it is not the best hardware for
> freebsd.
> The server base conf is 8core 32gb ram 2.8+ ghz.
> So, maybe someone has personal experience with both worlds and can tell
> if it
> really matters in such configuration if i go for software raid. What are
> the benefits
> and what are the negatives of software raid? How much is the performance
> penalty?
> I am planning to use mirror configuration of two SATA 7200rpm 2TB disks.
> Nothing fancy.
> File system planned is UFS with journaling.
> 

I won't delve into detail here but if the data is important HW RAID is
where you want to be. Perhaps you could give us a little more details
about what the purpose of the server is? Mission-critical or low cost?
Those two tends to be mutually exclusive...

We are HP-only but have good experience from LSI as well.

Just my $0.02.

//per
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Re: Software Manager - try again later

[Polytropon]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 21:43:34 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Thank you :)
> 
> I've got some thoughts, before I continue.
> 
> What version of FreeBSD does include the snd_hdspe driver? Do I have to
> download and burn a version > 9.0?

Yes, I think you should use 9-STABLE for that.



> Since the issue to get the needed slice/partition with the needed file
> system is solved by installing PC-BSD 8.2 instead of FreeBSD 9.0, I
> could backup the current install and then delete all files (but keep the
> slice and fs) and try to install FreeBSD again.

That's a good idea. You could skip manually deleting any files.
Just have the installer format them (omitting the step of
creating them of course).



> If it shouldn't work, I
> still could restore PC-BSD from the backup.

That should work fine.



> Since I want to test audio and MIDI, I wonder if 64 bit is the right
> choice. Is there something I should know about advantages and drawbacks
> of 32 bit and 64 bit architecture for audio?

If you do not have a _specific_ requirement for 32 bit, use 64 bit,
of course if you have a 64 bit CPU. :-)

Specific requirements _could_ be wine and nVidia's proprietary
GPU driver, as far as I know.



> When I backuped BSD yesterday, I noticed that PC-BSD 8.2 couldn't mount
> all my Linux partitions. I'm not sure, but I suspect I could mount ext3,
> but not ext4, at least the backup is on an ext3 partition.

That sounds normal. The base OS installation does not cover the
high amount of different Linux file systems.



> Is there something, perhaps a kernel version, I should prefer to use
> FreeBSD on my Linux machine?

No, you just need fuse with the required ext3, ext4, ext5,
ext(n+1) and ReiserFS functionality. :-)



> For audio on FreeBSD is there something to know about real-time, before
> I install another BSD?

The term "real time" doesn't precisely apply to FreeBSD or any
non-RT OS. However, there are some specific Linux distributions
that aim at music professionals, offering MIDI functionality,
lots of programs relating to that topic, and so on. Many things
that work on Linux also tend to work on FreeBSD, but you'll have
to try, because audio is a "niche market". :-)



> Again the question regarding to a backup I made yesterday.
> 
> My fstab:
> /dev/label/rootfs0  /   ufs rw,noatime
>   1   1
> /dev/label/swap0noneswapsw
>   0   0
> /dev/label/var0 /varufs rw,noatime
>   1   1
> /dev/label/usr0 /usrufs rw,noatime
>   1   1
> procfs  /proc   procfs  rw
>   0   0
> linprocfs   /compat/linux/proc  linprocfs   rw
>   0   0
> 
> That's how I backuped:
> # dump -0Launf - /dev/label/rootfs0 | bzip2 > 
> /media/unused8/rootfs0-2012-12-14.dump
> # dump -0Launf - /dev/label/var0 | bzip2 > /media/unused8/var0-2012-12-14.dump
> # dump -0Launf - /dev/label/usr0 | bzip2 > /media/unused8/usr0-2012-12-14.dump
> 
> IIUC I can backup BSD, while running the BSD I backup and the commands
> above did backup everything. I could delete all files and restore it
> from this backup. Is this correct?

That is correct. You should _test_ your backup; see the -t and
-N options mentioned in "man restore". Make sure you backup all
your partitions -- I see you have /, /var and /usr; if that's
everything, it's okay.

Additionally, you could backup your disks's MBR using dd.

# dd if=/dev/ of=/where/your/backup/is/disk_mbr.dd bs=512 count=1

Just in case. You probably won't need it. But who knows... :-)


-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Software Manager - try again later

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thank you :)

I've got some thoughts, before I continue.

What version of FreeBSD does include the snd_hdspe driver? Do I have to
download and burn a version > 9.0?

Since the issue to get the needed slice/partition with the needed file
system is solved by installing PC-BSD 8.2 instead of FreeBSD 9.0, I
could backup the current install and then delete all files (but keep the
slice and fs) and try to install FreeBSD again. If it shouldn't work, I
still could restore PC-BSD from the backup.

Since I want to test audio and MIDI, I wonder if 64 bit is the right
choice. Is there something I should know about advantages and drawbacks
of 32 bit and 64 bit architecture for audio?

When I backuped BSD yesterday, I noticed that PC-BSD 8.2 couldn't mount
all my Linux partitions. I'm not sure, but I suspect I could mount ext3,
but not ext4, at least the backup is on an ext3 partition.
Is there something, perhaps a kernel version, I should prefer to use
FreeBSD on my Linux machine?

For audio on FreeBSD is there something to know about real-time, before
I install another BSD?

First I'll subscribe and ask on
http://lists.pcbsd.org/mailman/listinfo/support, if I can fix issues for
the current install, but perhaps it's wiser to make a new install.

Again the question regarding to a backup I made yesterday.

My fstab:
/dev/label/rootfs0  /   ufs rw,noatime  
1   1
/dev/label/swap0noneswapsw  
0   0
/dev/label/var0 /varufs rw,noatime  
1   1
/dev/label/usr0 /usrufs rw,noatime  
1   1
procfs  /proc   procfs  rw  
0   0
linprocfs   /compat/linux/proc  linprocfs   rw  
0   0

That's how I backuped:
# dump -0Launf - /dev/label/rootfs0 | bzip2 > 
/media/unused8/rootfs0-2012-12-14.dump
# dump -0Launf - /dev/label/var0 | bzip2 > /media/unused8/var0-2012-12-14.dump
# dump -0Launf - /dev/label/usr0 | bzip2 > /media/unused8/usr0-2012-12-14.dump

IIUC I can backup BSD, while running the BSD I backup and the commands
above did backup everything. I could delete all files and restore it
from this backup. Is this correct?

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Software Manager - try again later

[Polytropon]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 17:25:17 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-12-15 at 13:11 +0100, Polytropon wrote:
> > Mixing PBI and ports/packages is possible, but discouraged.
> 
> I read about it, but don't understand the issue.
> 
> If I never ever would use PBI again but ports/packages only in the
> future, it still would cause issues? The port directory isn't empty.

As far as I know, this wouldn't be a problem on PC-BSD,
as long as you don't deal with applications that are
already installed. I don't know if PBI properly interoperates
with ports and packages as there are many things to
consider: package lists, directory structures and
locations, and software databases.



> I installed PC-BSD 8.2, regarding to the issues to partition, when I
> started with FreeBSD 9.0,
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2012-December/013680.html
>  .
> 
> Manually downloading and installing is ok as a workaround, but in the
> end everything should work without workarounds.

There is also a CLI utility to avoid the unpleasant
process of fiddling with a web browser and holding
the wizard's hand during installation. :-)



> So PC-BSD isn't really FreeBSD ;)? I asked before I installed it ;) and
> it was said, that it is FreeBSD ;).

Not quite. PC-BSD is "FreeBSD _and_", which means that the
core of the system is FreeBSD, but it gets some special
features such as the PBI installer and the integration
and preconfiguration of the KDE desktop. It also has a
custom installer. This implies that there are few things
that could be called "incompatibilities", but that harsh
word doesn't fit well. PC-BSD can be considered a FreeBSD
"derivate" (again, doesn't fit well) for easier desktop (!)
installation, with the recommendation to use its native
tools (instead of the FreeBSD native tools), like "stay
in your garage and use _your_ tools, not mine". :-)




> However, since I've got my Linux for work, I don't depend on BSD. I can
> spend some time to get BSD working :), OTOH I don't have much time to do
> the same things again and again + I have to avoid that working on BSD
> might damage my Linux installs or data.

Unless you're doing something stupid (TM) with partitions,
there shouldn't be any problem. It's not that some background
process overwrites the partition table without anyone noticing... :-)



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Software Manager - try again later

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 2012-12-15 at 13:11 +0100, Polytropon wrote:
> Mixing PBI and ports/packages is possible, but discouraged.

I read about it, but don't understand the issue.

If I never ever would use PBI again but ports/packages only in the
future, it still would cause issues? The port directory isn't empty.

I installed PC-BSD 8.2, regarding to the issues to partition, when I
started with FreeBSD 9.0,
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2012-December/013680.html 
.

Manually downloading and installing is ok as a workaround, but in the
end everything should work without workarounds.
So PC-BSD isn't really FreeBSD ;)? I asked before I installed it ;) and
it was said, that it is FreeBSD ;).

However, since I've got my Linux for work, I don't depend on BSD. I can
spend some time to get BSD working :), OTOH I don't have much time to do
the same things again and again + I have to avoid that working on BSD
might damage my Linux installs or data.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Software Manager - try again later

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:38:08 + (GMT), Mardorf Ralf wrote:
> Hi :)
> 
> 
> Software Manager (PC-BSD 8.2) can't install software.
> Removing and updating software does work, but if I try to install software, I 
> get
> "Download failed! Please try again later." and I tried again for several days.
> I couldn't find a hint searching the web, so any hints are welcome ( 
> http://lmgtfy.com/ ;).
> 
> This happens when I try to install Evolution, AbiWord, Claws, Hydrogen and 
> others.

I know it doesn't address the problem directly, but have you
tried using other methods of installing software on PC-BSD,
which are:

1. download a PBI and execute it

2. use pkg_add -r

3. use ports collection

I'm aware of the fact that this doesn't conform to PC-BSD's
software maintenance paradigm, but it should work. Mixing
PBI and ports/packages is possible, but discouraged.


-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Jorge Biquez]

Hello all.

I have been reading in detail all your comments and advice.

Thank you very much for your time. I have clear vision now of what do 
I need to do.


I comment today to my students the help we were getting and all of 
them send you a BIG "THANK YOU VERY MUCH" comment. I hope that wieth 
your help and comments I could help them more.


Thanks again to all.

Have a nice day/night.

Jorge Biquez

At 06:23 p.m. 07/02/2012, C. P. Ghost wrote:

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Waitman Gobble  wrote:
>
> On Feb 6, 2012 6:13 PM, "C. P. Ghost"  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Jorge Biquez 
>> wrote:
>> > Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we would
>> > like
>> > to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows (we all know
>> > that's
>> > the market and here some companies is what they are looking), so maybe
>> > sound
>> > crazy but I am looking to develop applications for Windows without using
>> > WIndows or Microsofot products at least.
>>
>> Go for Qt. It is a great cross-platform C++ GUI framework, with plugins to
>> SQL
>> databases, networking and everything you would typically need. There's
>> even
>> PyQt, if you want Python bindings.
>>
>> Check out the examples in the Qt distribution too to get an idea:
>>
>> http://developer.qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-4.8/all-examples.html
>
> I agree Qt is a great solution however you are probably going to want to
> ship static binaries to windows clients (only), especially to non-techical
> end users... otherwise it gets kind of insane, much more challenging than
> distributing java based apps IMHO.
>
> But the IDE is fantastic plus you get a nice integration with webkit.
>
> if I remember (been awhile) the license terms are a little different for
> static, would have to re-read carefully.

I don't know about licensing issues w.r.t. static binaries; but you're
absolutely right: it's definitely worth looking into.

Another cross-platform GUI is wxWidgets (C++, but has Python
bindings too). It's not as rich a library as Qt IMHO, but quite nice
too. You may want to combine wxWidgets with Poco though (all
of this is in ports, btw).

-cpghost.

--
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/


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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[C. P. Ghost]

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Waitman Gobble  wrote:
>
> On Feb 6, 2012 6:13 PM, "C. P. Ghost"  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Jorge Biquez 
>> wrote:
>> > Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we would
>> > like
>> > to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows (we all know
>> > that's
>> > the market and here some companies is what they are looking), so maybe
>> > sound
>> > crazy but I am looking to develop applications for Windows without using
>> > WIndows or Microsofot products at least.
>>
>> Go for Qt. It is a great cross-platform C++ GUI framework, with plugins to
>> SQL
>> databases, networking and everything you would typically need. There's
>> even
>> PyQt, if you want Python bindings.
>>
>> Check out the examples in the Qt distribution too to get an idea:
>>
>> http://developer.qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-4.8/all-examples.html
>
> I agree Qt is a great solution however you are probably going to want to
> ship static binaries to windows clients (only), especially to non-techical
> end users... otherwise it gets kind of insane, much more challenging than
> distributing java based apps IMHO.
>
> But the IDE is fantastic plus you get a nice integration with webkit.
>
> if I remember (been awhile) the license terms are a little different for
> static, would have to re-read carefully.

I don't know about licensing issues w.r.t. static binaries; but you're
absolutely right: it's definitely worth looking into.

Another cross-platform GUI is wxWidgets (C++, but has Python
bindings too). It's not as rich a library as Qt IMHO, but quite nice
too. You may want to combine wxWidgets with Poco though (all
of this is in ports, btw).

-cpghost.

-- 
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Re: software raid

[Warren Block]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012, Jim Pazarena wrote:


Does FreeBSD support any type of software raid?
I have an old rack mount server which has 8 bays, but all SATA,
and NO raid. Sure would be nice to have a software raid
to create a NAS device.


Sure, multiple ways, in fact:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-striping.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-raid3.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/filesystems-zfs.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/vinum-vinum.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/disks-hast.html

That's a start.  gmirror and ZFS are probably the most common.
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Patrick Lamaiziere]

Le Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:37:37 -0600,
Jorge Biquez  a écrit :

> Hello all.

Hi,

> Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use 
> Phyton. Is that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me 
> create executables and will let me create Graphical solutions even 
> for other platforms (Mac or LInux or whatever runs Python).
> 
> Talking with friend, he believes that my best bet is to teach them C 
> or C++ and use some of the options for developing graphically ( I am 
> not a C or C++ expert but I can learn alone).
> 
> I was wondering if you could give some advie and comments on this.
> 
> Are you developing commercial applications (including Windows ones) 
> using FreeBsd as your platform? Or Maybe any Linux Distribution?

It is hard to develop Windows application without Windows.

Why not java? For small applications it should run anywhere and it is
widely used. This is a language without surprise (not great, but also
not so bad).

I'm happy to develop on FreeBSD / OpenJDK / Netbeans, as far I can see
that works fine.

(To be honest, I would prefer good old C, but sometimes you don't have
the choice...)

Regards.
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Nikola Pavlović]

On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 09:06:49PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 07:36:46PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> > 
> > However, from personal experience, I know that Larry Wall understands
> > Object Oriented Programming, and Guido definitely doesn't get it.
> > Obviously, other people have worked on both languages, but keep that in
> > mind.  I can present my evidence of how Guido doesn't get it in a longer
> > post, if prompted.
> 
> I'm definitely curious.  If you don't think this is the place for it, I'd
> love to see your explanation in private email or by other means.
> 

Me too.

-- 
People will do tomorrow what they did today because that is what they
did yesterday.

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Re: software raid

[Modulok]

> Does FreeBSD support any type of software raid?
> I have an old rack mount server which has 8 bays, but all SATA,
> and NO raid. Sure would be nice to have a software raid
> to create a NAS device.

Yes!

An example of setting up a 3 disk raidz might look like this:

zpool create myfancyraid raidz ad4 ad6 ad8
zfs create myfancyraid/foo
zfs set mountpoint=/usr/foo myfancyraid/foo
zfs mount -a
cd /usr/foo
echo "hello world" > hello.txt

Yay! Then edit /etc/rc.conf to enable zfs at boot time:

echo 'zfs_enable="YES"' >> /etc/rc.conf


How's my raid doing today? Cake:

zpool status
zfs list

You can even mix and match raid and encryption. Below, I put a raidz on top a
geli encryption layer on three devices. (There are other ways to do this too.)
When it comes time to decommission disks, there's no company data leaks
(depending on your needs):

# Create the geli:
geli init -b -e AES -l 256 /dev/ad4
geli init -b -e AES -l 256 /dev/ad6
geli init -b -e AES -l 256 /dev/ad8

# Attach it or reboot:
geli attach ad4
geli attach ad6
geli attach ad8

# Make the zpool and Z file system:
zpool create myfancyraid raidz ad4.eli ad6.eli ad8.eli
zfs create myfancyraid/foo
zfs set mountpoint=/usr/foo myfancyraid/foo
zfs mount -a

Then edit /boot/loader.conf to load geli at boot time::

echo 'geom_eli_load="YES"' >> /boot/loader.conf

Finally, add the bit about ZFS to /etc/rc.conf::

echo 'zfs_enable="YES"' >> /etc/rc.conf

You'll be asked for the password to each provider (disk) at boot time before
the system enters multi-user mode. Make sure you have console access
and a backup copy of the password somewhere!

A word on graid3: For a multi-user file server, serving lots of small requests,
graid3 is about the worst performance you can get due to its raid3 nature.
Requests have to be served sequentially, using all disks in the array.
Slow in my experience.

Good luck!
-Modulok-
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Waitman Gobble]

On Feb 6, 2012 6:13 PM, "C. P. Ghost"  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Jorge Biquez 
wrote:
> > Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we would
like
> > to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows (we all know
that's
> > the market and here some companies is what they are looking), so maybe
sound
> > crazy but I am looking to develop applications for Windows without using
> > WIndows or Microsofot products at least.
>
> Go for Qt. It is a great cross-platform C++ GUI framework, with plugins
to SQL
> databases, networking and everything you would typically need. There's
even
> PyQt, if you want Python bindings.
>
> Check out the examples in the Qt distribution too to get an idea:
>
> http://developer.qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-4.8/all-examples.html
>
> --
> Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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I agree Qt is a great solution however you are probably going to want to
ship static binaries to windows clients (only), especially to non-techical
end users... otherwise it gets kind of insane, much more challenging than
distributing java based apps IMHO.

But the IDE is fantastic plus you get a nice integration with webkit.

if I remember (been awhile) the license terms are a little different for
static, would have to re-read carefully.

Waitman Gobble
San Jose California USA
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Rod Person]

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:36:46 -0800
mer...@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote:

> > "DDa" == Da Rock 
> > writes:
> 
> >> Would you do that with Python or something else?
> 
> DDa> Depending on what you really need to solve decides your
> DDa> language. Others have offered advice here, but may I suggest
> DDa> Perl? For most data and its proven ability to handle/match
> DDa> string data it is very useful. And using tk it will run on
> DDa> windows as well.
> 
> At this point, there's absolutely nothing that Python can do that Perl
> can't, and very likely vice versa.
> 
> However, from personal experience, I know that Larry Wall understands
> Object Oriented Programming, and Guido definitely doesn't get it.
> Obviously, other people have worked on both languages, but keep that
> in mind.  I can present my evidence of how Guido doesn't get it in a
> longer post, if prompted.
> 

I'll second the motion for this evidence.

-- 

Rod Person  http://www.rodperson.com  rodper...@rodperson.com

'Silence is a fence around wisdom'
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Da Rock]

On 02/07/12 14:06, Chad Perrin wrote:

On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 07:36:46PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

"DDa" == Da Rock writes:

Would you do that with Python or something else?

DDa>  Depending on what you really need to solve decides your
DDa>  language. Others have offered advice here, but may I suggest Perl?
DDa>  For most data and its proven ability to handle/match string data it
DDa>  is very useful. And using tk it will run on windows as well.

At this point, there's absolutely nothing that Python can do that Perl
can't, and very likely vice versa.

However, from personal experience, I know that Larry Wall understands
Object Oriented Programming, and Guido definitely doesn't get it.
Obviously, other people have worked on both languages, but keep that in
mind.  I can present my evidence of how Guido doesn't get it in a longer
post, if prompted.

I'm definitely curious.  If you don't think this is the place for it, I'd
love to see your explanation in private email or by other means.


+1
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Chad Perrin]

On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 07:36:46PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> > "DDa" == Da Rock writes:
> 
> >> Would you do that with Python or something else?
> 
> DDa> Depending on what you really need to solve decides your
> DDa> language. Others have offered advice here, but may I suggest Perl?
> DDa> For most data and its proven ability to handle/match string data it
> DDa> is very useful. And using tk it will run on windows as well.
> 
> At this point, there's absolutely nothing that Python can do that Perl
> can't, and very likely vice versa.
> 
> However, from personal experience, I know that Larry Wall understands
> Object Oriented Programming, and Guido definitely doesn't get it.
> Obviously, other people have worked on both languages, but keep that in
> mind.  I can present my evidence of how Guido doesn't get it in a longer
> post, if prompted.

I'm definitely curious.  If you don't think this is the place for it, I'd
love to see your explanation in private email or by other means.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "DDa" == Da Rock  writes:

>> Would you do that with Python or something else?

DDa> Depending on what you really need to solve decides your
DDa> language. Others have offered advice here, but may I suggest Perl?
DDa> For most data and its proven ability to handle/match string data it
DDa> is very useful. And using tk it will run on windows as well.

At this point, there's absolutely nothing that Python can do that Perl
can't, and very likely vice versa.

However, from personal experience, I know that Larry Wall understands
Object Oriented Programming, and Guido definitely doesn't get it.
Obviously, other people have worked on both languages, but keep that in
mind.  I can present my evidence of how Guido doesn't get it in a longer
post, if prompted.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
 http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[C. P. Ghost]

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Jorge Biquez  wrote:
> Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we would like
> to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows (we all know that's
> the market and here some companies is what they are looking), so maybe sound
> crazy but I am looking to develop applications for Windows without using
> WIndows or Microsofot products at least.

Go for Qt. It is a great cross-platform C++ GUI framework, with plugins to SQL
databases, networking and everything you would typically need. There's even
PyQt, if you want Python bindings.

Check out the examples in the Qt distribution too to get an idea:

http://developer.qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-4.8/all-examples.html

-- 
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Da Rock]

On 02/07/12 08:37, Jorge Biquez wrote:

Hello all.

This is kind of off topic. My apologies in advance.

I am helping a non profit organization and giving some classes to 
prepare students so they can be prepared and try to get a job (they 
are students also and have the basics concepts already)


Anyway, I am interested in teach them to develop some simple 
applications. From simple ones to destktop ones that access a 
database, desktop ones that use internet to connect to a remote 
database and web based ones with a database behind. We have 6 months 
and the idea is to work a lot remotely. Thin is that I do not want to 
use any kind of Microsoft products. Some of them do not have modern 
machines but until now, in previous classs, we could install Freebsd, 
text mode, and work from there.


Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we 
would like to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows 
(we all know that's the market and here some companies is what they 
are looking), so maybe sound crazy but I am looking to develop 
applications for Windows without using WIndows or Microsofot products 
at least.


I have been looking for this for months. First case using Windows but 
not Microsoft products. I found some options BUT they all were 
expensive on the deployment. The "runtimes" were not free and the 
amount of money to pay was not a good option. Others provide " real 
free" excutables for runtimes but the products were expensive. I am 
now trying to, If possible, have FreeBSD running graphically and then 
use open source software to develop graphical windows applications.


Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use 
Phyton. Is that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me 
create executables and will let me create Graphical solutions even for 
other platforms (Mac or LInux or whatever runs Python).


Talking with friend, he believes that my best bet is to teach them C 
or C++ and use some of the options for developing graphically ( I am 
not a C or C++ expert but I can learn alone).


I was wondering if you could give some advie and comments on this.

Are you developing commercial applications (including Windows ones) 
using FreeBsd as your platform? Or Maybe any Linux Distribution?


Would you do that with Python or something else?
Depending on what you really need to solve decides your language. Others 
have offered advice here, but may I suggest Perl? For most data and its 
proven ability to handle/match string data it is very useful. And using 
tk it will run on windows as well.


My 2c... :)
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Leonardo M . Ramé]

>
> From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk 
>To: Rod Person  
>Cc: Jorge Biquez ; FreeBSD Questions 
> 
>Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 9:22 PM
>Subject: Re: Software Development using Freebsd.
> 
>On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Rod Person  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:37:37 -0600
>> Jorge Biquez  wrote:
>>
>> > Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we
>> > would like to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows
>> > (we all know that's the market and here some companies is what they
>> > are looking), so maybe sound crazy but I am looking to develop
>> > applications for Windows without using WIndows or Microsofot products
>> > at least.
>> >
>>
>> You could try mono and monodevelop
>> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/devel/monodevelop/pkg-descr
>>
>> Mono is the open source version of .NET/C#. This would teach the basics
>> of .NET and C#.
>>
>> > Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use
>> > Phyton. Is that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me
>> > create executables and will let me create Graphical solutions even
>> > for other platforms (Mac or LInux or whatever runs Python).
>>
>> You can use Python and py2exe to create the executable that would run
>> on Windows, but you have to run py2exe on a Windows machine.
>>
>> If you know Pascal you can look at the FreePascal and Lazarus. I
>> haven't used it in years, but I was able to create several applications
>> that ran on both FreeBSD and Windows.
>> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/editors/lazarus/pkg-descr
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rod Person        http://www.rodperson.com    rodper...@rodperson.com
>>
>> "Let us in the name of the Holy Trinity, go on sending all the slaves
>>  that can be sold."
>> - Letter from Christopher Columbus.
>>  J.A. Rawley, The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade: A History. Pg.3
>>
>
>
>
>
>Lazarus is an IDE ( Integrated Development Environment ) and its compiler
>is Free Pascal :
>
>
>http://www.freepascal.org/
>http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/
>
>
>When a program is developed in Lazarus , it can directly be compiled in
>Windows .
>There are a multitude of units for any kind of programming ( Web , Data
>base , etc. ) .
>
>Lazarus and FreePascal is available for FreeBSD , Linux , Windows , and
>many other operating systems .
>
>
>A study of the above sites will reveal their capabilities .
>
>http://wiki.freepascal.org/Cross_compiling_for_Win32_under_Linux
>http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Cross_compiling
>
>
>I did not use , but cross compiling should be possible by using Wine in
>FreeBSD to obtain Windows programs ( Windows versions of Lazarus and Free
>Pascal may be used in FreeBSD to generate Windows programs and they may be
>executed under Wine in FreeBSD for testing before transferred to Windows :
>This means a minimum number of Windows computer(s) may be used for final
>testing . ) .
>
>
>
>
>Thank you very much .
>
>
>Mehmet Erol Sanliturk


I do use Lazarus and FreePascal to develop professional applications, mainly I 
work on Linux and cross-compile to Win32/Win64. For FreeBsd I installed 
FreePascal on a Virtual Machine and compiled from it, I never tried 
cross-compiling from FreeBSD to other OSes, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.

An example of what I do is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc1RT-s-dw0


Leonardo M. Ramé
http://leonardorame.blogspot.com
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Frank Shute]

On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 04:37:37PM -0600, Jorge Biquez wrote:
>
> Hello all.
> 
> This is kind of off topic. My apologies in advance.
> 
> I am helping a non profit organization and giving some classes to 
> prepare students so they can be prepared and try to get a job (they 
> are students also and have the basics concepts already)
> 
> Anyway, I am interested in teach them to develop some simple 
> applications. From simple ones to destktop ones that access a 
> database, desktop ones that use internet to connect to a remote 
> database and web based ones with a database behind. We have 6 months 
> and the idea is to work a lot remotely. Thin is that I do not want to 
> use any kind of Microsoft products. Some of them do not have modern 
> machines but until now, in previous classs, we could install Freebsd, 
> text mode, and work from there.
> 
> Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we 
> would like to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows 
> (we all know that's the market and here some companies is what they 
> are looking), so maybe sound crazy but I am looking to develop 
> applications for Windows without using WIndows or Microsofot products at 
> least.
> 
> I have been looking for this for months. First case using Windows but 
> not Microsoft products. I found some options BUT they all were 
> expensive on the deployment. The "runtimes" were not free and the 
> amount of money to pay was not a good option. Others provide " real 
> free" excutables for runtimes but the products were expensive. I am 
> now trying to, If possible, have FreeBSD running graphically and then 
> use open source software to develop graphical windows applications.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use 
> Phyton. Is that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me 
> create executables and will let me create Graphical solutions even 
> for other platforms (Mac or LInux or whatever runs Python).
> 
> Talking with friend, he believes that my best bet is to teach them C 
> or C++ and use some of the options for developing graphically ( I am 
> not a C or C++ expert but I can learn alone).
> 
> I was wondering if you could give some advie and comments on this.
> 
> Are you developing commercial applications (including Windows ones) 
> using FreeBsd as your platform? Or Maybe any Linux Distribution?
> 
> Would you do that with Python or something else?
> 
> Any extra advice is more than welcomed.
> 
> Thanks in advanced.
> 

Any reason you don't want to use Java?

OO, plenty of IDEs to choose from, ranging from vim to Eclipse which
run on both Windows and Unix.

If I wanted to develop for Windows (I don't), that's what I'd use so I
could develop my code using FreeBSD.

The best part is that Java skills are in demand. (I don't know if
that's the case in Mexico though).


Regards,

-- 

 Frank

 Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html




pgpgtIfdq5w75.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Mehmet Erol Sanliturk]

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Rod Person  wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:37:37 -0600
> Jorge Biquez  wrote:
>
> > Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we
> > would like to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows
> > (we all know that's the market and here some companies is what they
> > are looking), so maybe sound crazy but I am looking to develop
> > applications for Windows without using WIndows or Microsofot products
> > at least.
> >
>
> You could try mono and monodevelop
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/devel/monodevelop/pkg-descr
>
> Mono is the open source version of .NET/C#. This would teach the basics
> of .NET and C#.
>
> > Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use
> > Phyton. Is that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me
> > create executables and will let me create Graphical solutions even
> > for other platforms (Mac or LInux or whatever runs Python).
>
> You can use Python and py2exe to create the executable that would run
> on Windows, but you have to run py2exe on a Windows machine.
>
> If you know Pascal you can look at the FreePascal and Lazarus. I
> haven't used it in years, but I was able to create several applications
> that ran on both FreeBSD and Windows.
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/editors/lazarus/pkg-descr
>
>
> --
> Rod Person http://www.rodperson.com rodper...@rodperson.com
>
> "Let us in the name of the Holy Trinity, go on sending all the slaves
>  that can be sold."
> - Letter from Christopher Columbus.
>  J.A. Rawley, The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade: A History. Pg.3
>




Lazarus is an IDE ( Integrated Development Environment ) and its compiler
is Free Pascal :


http://www.freepascal.org/
http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/


When a program is developed in Lazarus , it can directly be compiled in
Windows .
There are a multitude of units for any kind of programming ( Web , Data
base , etc. ) .

Lazarus and FreePascal is available for FreeBSD , Linux , Windows , and
many other operating systems .


A study of the above sites will reveal their capabilities .

http://wiki.freepascal.org/Cross_compiling_for_Win32_under_Linux
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Cross_compiling


I did not use , but cross compiling should be possible by using Wine in
FreeBSD to obtain Windows programs ( Windows versions of Lazarus and Free
Pascal may be used in FreeBSD to generate Windows programs and they may be
executed under Wine in FreeBSD for testing before transferred to Windows :
This means a minimum number of Windows computer(s) may be used for final
testing . ) .




Thank you very much .


Mehmet Erol Sanliturk
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Rod Person]

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:37:37 -0600
Jorge Biquez  wrote:

> Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we
> would like to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows
> (we all know that's the market and here some companies is what they
> are looking), so maybe sound crazy but I am looking to develop
> applications for Windows without using WIndows or Microsofot products
> at least.
> 

You could try mono and monodevelop
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/devel/monodevelop/pkg-descr

Mono is the open source version of .NET/C#. This would teach the basics
of .NET and C#.

> Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use
> Phyton. Is that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me
> create executables and will let me create Graphical solutions even
> for other platforms (Mac or LInux or whatever runs Python).

You can use Python and py2exe to create the executable that would run
on Windows, but you have to run py2exe on a Windows machine.

If you know Pascal you can look at the FreePascal and Lazarus. I
haven't used it in years, but I was able to create several applications
that ran on both FreeBSD and Windows.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/editors/lazarus/pkg-descr


-- 
Rod Person http://www.rodperson.com rodper...@rodperson.com
  
"Let us in the name of the Holy Trinity, go on sending all the slaves 
 that can be sold." 
- Letter from Christopher Columbus.
  J.A. Rawley, The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade: A History. Pg.3
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Adam Vande More]

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote:

> Would you do that with Python or something else?
>

http://qt.nokia.com/

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[Chad Perrin]

On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 04:37:37PM -0600, Jorge Biquez wrote:
> 
> I am helping a non profit organization and giving some classes to
> prepare students so they can be prepared and try to get a job (they
> are students also and have the basics concepts already)

That's admirable.  I hope that works out.


> 
> Anyway, I am interested in teach them to develop some simple
> applications. From simple ones to destktop ones that access a
> database, desktop ones that use internet to connect to a remote
> database and web based ones with a database behind. We have 6 months
> and the idea is to work a lot remotely. Thin is that I do not want
> to use any kind of Microsoft products. Some of them do not have
> modern machines but until now, in previous classs, we could install
> Freebsd, text mode, and work from there.
> 
> Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we
> would like to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows
> (we all know that's the market and here some companies is what they
> are looking), so maybe sound crazy but I am looking to develop
> applications for Windows without using WIndows or Microsofot
> products at least.

What kind of experience do you want these students to have when they
leave?  Do you just want them practiced in doing some general programming
with cross-platform tools, including database access and simple GUI work?
Do you want them to specifically work with commodity tools that will fit
in with mainstream job posting requirements on a resume?  Do you want
them to work with tools that will enable them to most easily expand their
experience on their own once they get done with the course of instruction
so they can more rapidly approach general competence and create useful
projects of their own very quickly, figuring they can then move on to
other tools and technologies as they decide which direction they want to
take their professional pursuits?  Do you just want it to be as easy as
possible?

Your top priority should probably help you make this decision.


> 
> I have been looking for this for months. First case using Windows
> but not Microsoft products. I found some options BUT they all were
> expensive on the deployment. The "runtimes" were not free and the
> amount of money to pay was not a good option. Others provide " real
> free" excutables for runtimes but the products were expensive. I am
> now trying to, If possible, have FreeBSD running graphically and
> then use open source software to develop graphical windows
> applications.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use
> Phyton. Is that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me
> create executables and will let me create Graphical solutions even
> for other platforms (Mac or LInux or whatever runs Python).
> 
> Talking with friend, he believes that my best bet is to teach them C
> or C++ and use some of the options for developing graphically ( I am
> not a C or C++ expert but I can learn alone).

Depending on your goals, anything from Ruby to C could be an excellent
choice.  LLVM/Clang is a great compiler suite for C; the mainstream Ruby
implementation will get you far; both can use platform-independent
graphical toolkits and database access libraries.  PostgreSQL is a great
DBMS distributed under a copyfree license, and it is well supported for
both these languages.  They're sorta on opposite ends of a spectrum,
though, so some kind of narrowing down of goals should be done before
arriving at any conclusions.


> 
> I was wondering if you could give some advie and comments on this.
> 
> Are you developing commercial applications (including Windows ones)
> using FreeBsd as your platform? Or Maybe any Linux Distribution?

I've written C, C++, Ruby, Perl, and PHP on FreeBSD, for deployment in a
wide range of platform circumstances.  Some of my development has been
commercial, some of it just for fun, some to solve my own personal
problems. . . .

There's nothing wrong with FreeBSD as a development platform for most
purposes, especially if you want to work on portable software
development.  In fact, I think that for purposes of writing portable
code, it's difficult to do worse than FreeBSD, because it's probably
easier to move code from FreeBSD to Linux distributions, Apple MacOS, and
MS Windows due to social factors involved than the other way around.


> 
> Would you do that with Python or something else?

I personally am not the world's biggest Python fan, but my choice would
depend on the specific goals involved.  If you're leaning toward the
Python end of the spectrum, though, I (personally; your mileage may
differ) would probably choose Ruby instead.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[William Brown]

> 
> Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use Phyton. Is 
> that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me create executables 
> and will let me create Graphical solutions even for other platforms (Mac or 
> LInux or whatever runs Python).
> 

I think that python is a great learning language. I would certainly be teaching 
it to people as the first language to help build concepts.

However, FreeBSD, contains mono. Mono is avaliable on Linux and OSX, but it is 
on windows natively as .NET. You can easily create some great C# applications 
that would be cross platform using this tool. 

Finally, the best cross platform tool is a web service. So perhaps you should 
explore the Django or Ruby on Rails path?


Sincerely,

William Brown

Research & Teaching, Technology Services
The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005

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Re: Software Development using Freebsd.

[David Hughes]

Not an expert by any means, but what about Mono, the open source and 
cross platform version of the .NET framework?


If you take a look at http://www.mono-project.com/Compatibility , you'll 
see that it's mostly compatible with .NET 4.0, and claims to be 100% 
compatible with .NET 3.5.


Java is also cross platform and will run on FreeBSD; or, like you say, 
you could use Python with TkInter; there's doubtless many other 
cross-platform solutions that I'm not aware of.


All best,

David


Hello all.

This is kind of off topic. My apologies in advance.

I am helping a non profit organization and giving some classes to
prepare students so they can be prepared and try to get a job (they are
students also and have the basics concepts already)

Anyway, I am interested in teach them to develop some simple
applications. From simple ones to destktop ones that access a database,
desktop ones that use internet to connect to a remote database and web
based ones with a database behind. We have 6 months and the idea is to
work a lot remotely. Thin is that I do not want to use any kind of
Microsoft products. Some of them do not have modern machines but until
now, in previous classs, we could install Freebsd, text mode, and work
from there.

Now we will try to have a graphical mode in Freebsd. With that we would
like to be able to develop graphical applications for Windows (we all
know that's the market and here some companies is what they are
looking), so maybe sound crazy but I am looking to develop applications
for Windows without using WIndows or Microsofot products at least.

I have been looking for this for months. First case using Windows but
not Microsoft products. I found some options BUT they all were expensive
on the deployment. The "runtimes" were not free and the amount of money
to pay was not a good option. Others provide " real free" excutables for
runtimes but the products were expensive. I am now trying to, If
possible, have FreeBSD running graphically and then use open source
software to develop graphical windows applications.

Maybe I am wrong but until now I think my only option is to use Phyton.
Is that correct? For what I have searched Python will let me create
executables and will let me create Graphical solutions even for other
platforms (Mac or LInux or whatever runs Python).

Talking with friend, he believes that my best bet is to teach them C or
C++ and use some of the options for developing graphically ( I am not a
C or C++ expert but I can learn alone).

I was wondering if you could give some advie and comments on this.

Are you developing commercial applications (including Windows ones)
using FreeBsd as your platform? Or Maybe any Linux Distribution?

Would you do that with Python or something else?

Any extra advice is more than welcomed.

Thanks in advanced.

Jorge Biquez

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Re: Software Update

[Chris Brennan]

On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Steven Susbauer  wrote:

> On 11/27/2010 07:01 PM, RW wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:36:09 -0500
>> Chris Brennan  wrote:
>>
>>  My fbsd desktop is popping up with Software Update. My question is
>>> weather this pulls updates from packages or ports.
>>>
>>
>> There are a few applications, such as opera, that can "phone home" and
>> check for newer versions. Typically they can't upgrade because they lack
>> privileges.
>>
>> Perhaps you could be a little less vague.
>>
>
> Software Update is provided by gnome-packagekit (or the kde equivalent) and
> will nag if updated packages are available.
>
> To the op, according to
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-September/057056.htmlPackageKit
>  was given support for ports using portupgrade or portaudit.
>
>
Thanks Steven, that's what I was looking for.
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Re: Software Update

[Steven Susbauer]

On 11/27/2010 07:01 PM, RW wrote:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:36:09 -0500
Chris Brennan  wrote:


My fbsd desktop is popping up with Software Update. My question is
weather this pulls updates from packages or ports.


There are a few applications, such as opera, that can "phone home" and
check for newer versions. Typically they can't upgrade because they lack
privileges.

Perhaps you could be a little less vague.


Software Update is provided by gnome-packagekit (or the kde equivalent) 
and will nag if updated packages are available.


To the op, according to 
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-September/057056.html 
PackageKit was given support for ports using portupgrade or portaudit.

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Re: Software Update

[RW]

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:36:09 -0500
Chris Brennan  wrote:

> My fbsd desktop is popping up with Software Update. My question is
> weather this pulls updates from packages or ports.

There are a few applications, such as opera, that can "phone home" and
check for newer versions. Typically they can't upgrade because they lack
privileges.

Perhaps you could be a little less vague.
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Re: Software to SEND log files only?

[Polytropon]

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 06:33:20 +0100, Bruce Cran  wrote:
> Most mail servers will block sendmail's connections from a dynamic IP:
> the advantage to ssmtp is that it forwards mail to the ISP's server.

That's sadly true (mostly because of the amounts of spam produced
by ordinary PCs on dynamic IPs). But sendmail has a fine solution
for that, erm, problem:

define(`SMART_HOST', `mx.foo.bar')

It's often useful to have the ISP's MX handle that problem, as it
usually has a static IP and is "widely accepted". :-)

This workaround makes it possible again to use basic techniques of
communications that were common in "the good days", as it should
be. This way plain sendmail can be used. Maybe masquerading envelope
is also needed, but I'm not entirely sure.


-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Software to SEND log files only?

[Robert Bonomi]

> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Wed Sep 22 00:32:52 2010
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 06:33:20 +0100
> From: Bruce Cran 
> To: Adam Vande More 
> Cc: Ed Flecko , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Software to SEND log files only?
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:16:35 -0500
> Adam Vande More  wrote:
>
> > That's pretty silly article if you ask me, sendmail is setup to that
> > by default.
> > 
> > just add something like this to cron:
> > 
> > uuencode /path/to/logfile logfile | mail -s "logfile"
> > yourem...@example.com
>
> Most mail servers will block sendmail's connections from a dynamic IP:
> the advantage to ssmtp is that it forwards mail to the ISP's server.

*ONE* line in the sendmail config file ("smarthost"), and sendmail does
the same thing.  



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Re: Software to SEND log files only?

[Bas Smeelen]

On 09/21/2010 10:17 PM, Len Conrad wrote:
> -- Original Message --
> From: Ed Flecko 
> Date:  Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:56:13 -0700
>
>   
>> According to the FreeBSD website
>> (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/outgoing-only.html), the easiest
>> way to send mail only is to install the mail/ssmtp port.
>>
>> Does anyone have an example of a script or other method (maybe a cron
>> script?) that would e-mail my log files to me daily?
>> 
> log files can be (too) huge as smtp DATA.  
>
> I zip mine and use the mpack port to send the .zip file as MIME attachment.
>
> Len
You could install the logrotate port /usr/ports/sysutils/logrotate and
switch the logfiles you want to this instead of newsyslog

For webserver error logs I use something like this scripts which runs
from cron
#!/bin/sh

cd /home/www

LOGFILES=`ls */logfiles/errorlog.txt`

for i in $LOGFILES
do
if [ -s $i ]
then
tail -r -n 100 $i |mail -s $i 
fi
done




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Re: Software to SEND log files only?

[Adam Vande More]

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Bruce Cran  wrote:

> Most mail servers will block sendmail's connections from a dynamic IP:
> the advantage to ssmtp is that it forwards mail to the ISP's server.
>

A small few, not most will do this IME.  The larger issue is/was that some
providers blocked port 25 from dynamic IP's.  Regardless, it's easier to
config sendmail as a smarthost with authorization, than it is a add yet
another port IMO.

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: Software to SEND log files only?

[Bruce Cran]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:16:35 -0500
Adam Vande More  wrote:

> That's pretty silly article if you ask me, sendmail is setup to that
> by default.
> 
> just add something like this to cron:
> 
> uuencode /path/to/logfile logfile | mail -s "logfile"
> yourem...@example.com

Most mail servers will block sendmail's connections from a dynamic IP:
the advantage to ssmtp is that it forwards mail to the ISP's server.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: Software to SEND log files only?

[Robert Bonomi]

> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:56:13 -0700
> From: Ed Flecko 
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> Subject: Software to SEND log files only?
>
> According to the FreeBSD website
> (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/outgoing-only.html), the easiest
> way to send mail only is to install the mail/ssmtp port.
>
> Does anyone have an example of a script or other method (maybe a cron
> script?) that would e-mail my log files to me daily?
>

   'mailing a file' is as simple as "mail -s {subject} {addressee} http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: Software to SEND log files only?

[Len Conrad]

-- Original Message --
From: Ed Flecko 
Date:  Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:56:13 -0700

>According to the FreeBSD website
>(http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/outgoing-only.html), the easiest
>way to send mail only is to install the mail/ssmtp port.
>
>Does anyone have an example of a script or other method (maybe a cron
>script?) that would e-mail my log files to me daily?

log files can be (too) huge as smtp DATA.  

I zip mine and use the mpack port to send the .zip file as MIME attachment.

Len

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Re: Software to SEND log files only?

[Adam Vande More]

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Ed Flecko  wrote:

> According to the FreeBSD website
> (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/outgoing-only.html), the easiest
> way to send mail only is to install the mail/ssmtp port.
>
> Does anyone have an example of a script or other method (maybe a cron
> script?) that would e-mail my log files to me daily?
>

That's pretty silly article if you ask me, sendmail is setup to that by
default.

just add something like this to cron:

uuencode /path/to/logfile logfile | mail -s "logfile" yourem...@example.com

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: Software RAID options

[Mike Clarke]

On Saturday 30 January 2010, Danny Edge wrote:

> Thanks, Glen, I should have mentioned that I did see gmirror
> mentioned in the HB. Pending further suggestions, I will try gmirror
> for software RAID 1 (yes, as large as the smallest disk).

It's also possible to mirror individual slices rather than an entire 
disk  so you could create 
matching slices on the disks and still have the spare space of the 
larger disk available for use as non-mirrored space.

-- 
Mike Clarke
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Re: Software RAID options

[Danny Edge]

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Glen Barber wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Danny Edge wrote:
> > What works for you and can you suggest a guide? I haven't setup a BSD
> server
> > in 8 years, but my environment will be:
>
> I've been using gmirror for some time, without problems.
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html
>
>
Thanks, Glen, I should have mentioned that I did see gmirror mentioned in
the HB. Pending further suggestions, I will try gmirror for software RAID 1
(yes, as large as the smallest disk).

[Snip...]
.

>
> >
> > I also plan on backing up via newbie rsync and SSH scripts.
> >
>
> May I suggest rsnapshot?
>

I will look into rsnapshot. All these new tools that I didn't have 10 years
ago!



-- 
CPDE - Certified Petroleum Distribution Engineer
CCBC - Certified Canadian Beer Consumer
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Re: Software RAID options

[Glen Barber]

Hi,

Danny Edge wrote: 
> What works for you and can you suggest a guide? I haven't setup a BSD server
> in 8 years, but my environment will be:

I've been using gmirror for some time, without problems.

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/geom-mirror.html

> 
> FreeBSD 7.2 Release
> x2 HD's (not the same size, if I need to spend the money, on two like

You really never specified your RAID type.  If it is RAID-0 (striping), as
the cliche goes, size doesn't matter.  If it is RAID-1, if you do not have
identically sized disks, the mirror will only be as large as the smallest
disk.  (This is mentioned in the handbook, as well.)

> 
> I also plan on backing up via newbie rsync and SSH scripts.
> 

May I suggest rsnapshot?

Regards,

-- 
Glen Barber
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Re: Software creating karaoke from mp3 files

[Wojciech Puchar]

Been unable to purchase karaoke of rock and roll greats like "AC/DC, THE 
ROLLING STONES, THE DOORS, LED ZEPPELIN". Looking for advice on software that


AFAIK nobody yet invented so good voice analyzer that could separate out 
music and speech.


But there are programs that ROUGHLY removes speech by filtering some 
frequency band. effect is crappy but there's something.


Look at /usr/ports/INDEX maybe there is something for that but i don't 
know one

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Re: Software raid5 through a sata port multiplier

[Maxim Khitrov]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Wojciech Puchar
 wrote:
>> thinking that a software raid5 solution may not be such a bad idea.
>
> software raid5 isn't any more bad than hardware raid5 most cases.
>
> just raid5 is bad if you use it in ANY type of load except:
>
> a) mostly reads - then set LARGE RAID stripe size
> b) mostly huge files - then set small RAID stripe size to have highest
> single thread transfer, or large to have higher concurency.
>
> EVERY OTHER case is bad case for RAID5 - just remember small write on
> RAID5=2 reads+2 writes on disks.

True, but aren't both steps done in parallel? So a single-disk
equivalent is actually just one read for every write.

>> The question is what port multiplier hardware does FreeBSD 7 support?
>
> it unfortunately doesn't. but your hardware RAID controllers drive disks by
> itself and presents virtual drives to system, and system has nothing to do
> with it.
> so ask manufacturer if it supports port multipliers.

The reason I don't want to depend on a hardware implementation is
because this "server" is actually a shuttle xpc box, so not exactly
built for reliability. If something breaks, I have to be able to move
the disks to any other FreeBSD 7 machine and continue accessing the
data. So I really just need some PCIe card and an external enclosure
that will expose all attached disks to the operating system. From
there I will determine how to arrange them, but I'd rather not have
any controller that abstracts away the physical hard drives.

- Max
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Re: Software raid5 through a sata port multiplier

[Wojciech Puchar]

thinking that a software raid5 solution may not be such a bad idea.


software raid5 isn't any more bad than hardware raid5 most cases.

just raid5 is bad if you use it in ANY type of load except:

a) mostly reads - then set LARGE RAID stripe size
b) mostly huge files - then set small RAID stripe size to have highest 
single thread transfer, or large to have higher concurency.


EVERY OTHER case is bad case for RAID5 - just remember small write on 
RAID5=2 reads+2 writes on disks.




The question is what port multiplier hardware does FreeBSD 7 support?


it unfortunately doesn't. but your hardware RAID controllers drive disks 
by itself and presents virtual drives to system, and system has nothing to 
do with it.

so ask manufacturer if it supports port multipliers.

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Re: Software to manage virtual hosts on a dedicated server

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar <
woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote:

> just another man that wants to get everything not just for free, but not
> even without much knowledge.
>
> learn and MAKE IT YOURSELF, that it will fit exactly to your needs.
>
>
> Or - provide services for 1$/year like there are lots of today. crappy and
> all the same - but cheap. Maybe you will earn 100$ a month - if you will be
> lucky.
>

@Wojciech Puchar,

What is it that you smoke? Or is this the after-effects of the smoking?


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Clothes make the man.  Naked people have little or no influence on
society."
  -- Mark Twain
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Re: Software to manage virtual hosts on a dedicated server

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

Hi,

Dnia 15-04-2009 o 13:58:04 Wojciech Puchar  
 napisał(a):


just another man that wants to get everything not just for free, but not  
even without much knowledge.
Hmm... who says I want to get everyting for free (without trying and  
learning)? Have you read my post? I did make a note about trying out syscp.



learn and MAKE IT YOURSELF, that it will fit exactly to your needs.
Yeah... will you send me the same answer if I want to buy a car? Am I  
supposed to know everything about all things and be able to do them?


Or - provide services for 1$/year like there are lots of today. crappy  
and all the same - but cheap. Maybe you will earn 100$ a month - if you  
will be lucky.


Have you read my post? I wrote that I am NOT going to be a provider but  
just looking for something to make life easier my side of things. I have a  
server I am responsible for and from time to time I add domains and would  
like to automate it a bit if possible.


Take care,

Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: Software to manage virtual hosts on a dedicated server

[Outback Dingo]

ISPCP, sysCP, DTC
GNUPanelhttp://gnupanel.org/
OpenPanel   http://www.openpanel.com/
ispCP Omega http://isp-control.net/
RavenCore   http://www.ravencore.com/


2009/4/15 Zbigniew Szalbot 

> Hello,
>
> Do you know any decent provider-like software which would handle adding new
> domains, ftp accounts, sql databases & mail accounts to the server?
> Preferably something in ports but I am not sure if there is any such thing?
> I am not going to become a provider :) but I am just looking for something
> to make life easier in this respect. I have seen syscp, but this has the
> disadvantage that it creates directories that are already containing
> public_html folders (no way to place files outside public access).
>
> Many thanks in advance for all suggestions!
>
> Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: Software to manage virtual hosts on a dedicated server

[Wojciech Puchar]

just another man that wants to get everything not just for free, but not 
even without much knowledge.


learn and MAKE IT YOURSELF, that it will fit exactly to your needs.


Or - provide services for 1$/year like there are lots of today. crappy and 
all the same - but cheap. Maybe you will earn 100$ a month - if you will 
be lucky.




Do you know any decent provider-like software which would handle adding new 
domains, ftp accounts, sql databases & mail accounts to the server? 
Preferably something in ports but I am not sure if there is any such thing? I 
am not going to become a provider :) but I am just looking for something to 
make life easier in this respect. I have seen syscp, but this has the 
disadvantage that it creates directories that are already containing 
public_html folders (no way to place files outside public access).


Many thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: Software installasion (Was: Re: Wine without X)

[User Wblock]

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Barnaby Scott wrote:

Thanks for all the ideas about where to download/install custom apps -
the one that appeals most at this stage is a jail, partly because I have
never played with them, and I think I should progress my learning in
that direction. However I find the other answers very useful insights
too. Given that winetricks calls itself a 'quick and dirty script',
along with the fact that the current wine port doesn't work,


Today's updated wine-1.1.18,1 port works now.

-Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA
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Re: Software installasion (Was: Re: Wine without X)

[Paul Schmehl]

--On March 29, 2009 11:03:03 AM -0500 Barnaby Scott  
wrote:


Many thanks to all who have helped on this one.

I managed to get wine installed without X and it works :) However my
application doesn't :(

Most of the errors are concerned with MS Visual C++ libraries, which I
have unconfirmed indications might be solved with 'winetricks'
http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks. However, I think using winetricks
means I need X anyway. So, I will leave it for now and try again after a
bit more research.



Sounds like missing dlls.  You *may* be able to just copy the missing dlls 
into the wine lib directory and get the application to work.  I would 
examine the error messages closely to see what dlls it trying to find and 
can't.


Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
obvious, my opinions are my own
and not those of my employer.
**
WARNING: Check the headers before replying

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Re: Software installasion (Was: Re: Wine without X)

[Barnaby Scott]

Mel Flynn wrote:

On Saturday 28 March 2009 13:06:44 Robert Huff wrote:

Mel Flynn writes:

 > Can I ask one more possibly really dumb question, to which I
 >  can find no answer: Is there a 'conventional', or sensible
 >  for one reason oranother, place to download application source to?

 Most systems I use or inherited use a variation of ~/src ~/cvs or
 ~/svn, where src are the tarballs + their extracted source and
 cvs/svn checkouts and/or exports.

I have never done this, but if I were running a private ports
tree I would be tempted to root it (if not on a separate partition)
at "/usr/priv_ports" or something similar and have the structure
minic /usr/ports whereever possible.  The name would then be
semi-intuitive, and a simple change of a few environment variables
(perhaps in the login file of an account dedicated to working on
those ports) would be all it took to change the framework.


A private portstree (as in: uses the ports framework for compiling and 
installing software, including registering the port in /var/db/pkg) is best 
kept in /usr/ports/local. One needs to set VALID_CATEGORIES=local in 
/etc/make.conf and optionally add SUBDIR+=local in /usr/ports/Makefile.local 
if one cares about the ports ending up in the INDEX and make search.


Ideally software not registering itself inside /var/db/pkg (as in software 
compiled by hand) should NOT be installed in $LOCALBASE (/usr/local by 
default) as there is no guarantee through the ports CONFLICTS mechanism, that 
a port overwrites files installed by your hand-compiled software.





Many thanks to all who have helped on this one.

I managed to get wine installed without X and it works :) However my
application doesn't :(

Most of the errors are concerned with MS Visual C++ libraries, which I
have unconfirmed indications might be solved with 'winetricks'
http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks. However, I think using winetricks
means I need X anyway. So, I will leave it for now and try again after a
bit more research.

Thanks for all the ideas about where to download/install custom apps -
the one that appeals most at this stage is a jail, partly because I have
never played with them, and I think I should progress my learning in
that direction. However I find the other answers very useful insights
too. Given that winetricks calls itself a 'quick and dirty script',
along with the fact that the current wine port doesn't work, I think I
see another manual installation coming on.

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Re: Software RAID and Logical Volume in Linux versus FreeBSD

[Ivan Voras]

Matt Proud wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have used FreeBSD for a long time very casually but have never explored
> any of its software RAID or volume management features---at least to a
> degree to which I feel comfortable with them. What I would like to know with
> this post is 1.) whether there exists the ability to setup an analogue of
> this in FreeBSD; 2.) how this would be done if it is possible; 3.) whether
> the capabilities of this in FreeBSD are sufficiently mature to manage it;
> and 4.) how worst-case recovery scenarios would go on FreeBSD.
> 
> I have a four disk software RAID setup in Linux. Everything is in RAID with
> the exception of swap. Here's an approximation of my setup:
> 
> /dev/sd{a,b,c}1 is in a RAID 1 array used as /boot.
> /dev/sd{a,b,c}2 is in a RAID 1 array used a /root.
> /dev/sd{a,b,c}3 is used as swap with each of equal priority.
> /dev/sd{a,b,c}4 is in a RAID 5 array used as LVM.
> 
> /dev/sdd houses spare partitions for the compliment supra.
> 
> LVM is henceforth broke up according to proper Linux-FHS rules.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?

It's definitely doable, see gmirror(8) for RAID1, gvinum(8) for RAID5.
Note that there's no separate entity that performs as "LVM" does - this
functionality is integrated in the system behaviour. You can use any
disk device or partition with any transformation (such as RAID,
encryption, iSCSI, etc.) without special preparation, partitioning or
labeling.




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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: software raid 1 and recovery

[Brian A. Seklecki]

On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 10:56 -0500, Brian A. Seklecki wrote:
> Google: nagios + seklecki + check_raid_gmirror
> 
> Also check out sysutils/smartmontools/

Also, I recently updated the plugin code to r270 with some patches from
Scott Swanson.  You can see a small screenshot of it in action here:

http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~seklecki/images/check_raid_gmirror_fbsd_nagiosWeb.png


~BAS


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Re: software raid 1 and recovery

[Brian A. Seklecki]

Google: nagios + seklecki + check_raid_gmirror

Also check out sysutils/smartmontools/

Cheers!

~BAS (Dealing with a fucked up gmirror raid 1 this morning)

On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 15:32 +, Robin Becker wrote:
> I set this system up using Dru Lavigne's recipe, but I don't really
> understand 
-- 
Brian A. Seklecki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Collaborative Fusion, Inc.




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Re: Software to manage BIND 9 ?

[Mark D. Foster]

Frank Bonnet wrote:
> I'm searching for some "good" software that runs with FreeBSD to manage
> a primary DNS server with several domains.
We use Men & Mice at work for the last 2 years to manage our Linux
(BIND9) and MS DNS servers. The product also works with FreeBSD.
See http://www.menandmice.com/solutions/suite/unixbind

-- 
Said one park ranger, 'There is considerable overlap between the 
 intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists.'
Mark D. Foster, CISSP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://mark.foster.cc/

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Re: Software to manage BIND 9 ?

[Roberto Pereyra]

webmin is a good bind manager.

roberto


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Re: Software Vulnerability Scanner

[Ghirai]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:29:40 +0330
"Bahman M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm starting my career as a security analyst and I'd like to know if
> there are any vulnerability scanners -Blackbox or Whitebox- available for 
> FreeBSD, in
> particular for Java applications.
> 
> There are some softwares out there, e.g. HailStorm or SourceScope
> however most of them are commercial and AFAIK there are only Windoze
> versions.
> 
> Any suggestion or pointer is highly appreciated.  TIA,
> 

In lack of a more specific question, i'd say
start with /usr/ports/security/nessus.

Generally these tools perform poorly on windows,
mostly because of the crappy network stack.

-- 
Regards,
Ghirai.
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Re: Software to print vouchers from large amount of txt data

[Alex Zbyslaw]

Bill Campbell wrote:


On Mon, Oct 22, 2007, simon butsana wrote:
 


I am looking for a software that will read repetitive data from a text file
and send it to a preformated fanfold paper (impact printer). The software
must be customizable as to be told on which area of the paper to print a
given field from the source text file.
   


The data in the text file would thus be translated in a certain number of
similar paper vouchers.
   


Does anyone have an idea?
   



I've been using nroff for this type of things for years.  One can do very
precise text location vertically and horizontally.  Our accounting software
prints invoices using groff, initially loading an image with .PSPIC, then
overlaying it with the text.
 

Just to second Bill's suggestion.  I've done both labels and invoices 
with groff/troff with great success.  The only issue is how accurately 
your printer will feed the paper so it may be better to be as generous 
as possible with margins around the printed data.  (If this is fanfold 
paper, maybe it's a sprocket-type printer?  In which case it's a 
question of how accurately the initial page is lined up when the paper 
is first inserted.  You might want a pre-generated test page for when 
new paper is fed in).


Once you know what your troff looks like, any scripting language should 
be able to turn the text file into troff and print it.  Perl is probably 
the obvious one.


--Alex

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Re: Software to print vouchers from large amount of txt data

[Bill Campbell]

On Mon, Oct 22, 2007, simon butsana wrote:
>Hi,

>I am looking for a software that will read repetitive data from a text file
>and send it to a preformated fanfold paper (impact printer). The software
>must be customizable as to be told on which area of the paper to print a
>given field from the source text file.

>The data in the text file would thus be translated in a certain number of
>similar paper vouchers.

>Does anyone have an idea?

I've been using nroff for this type of things for years.  One can do very
precise text location vertically and horizontally.  Our accounting software
prints invoices using groff, initially loading an image with .PSPIC, then
overlaying it with the text.

Bill
--
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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[Tsu-Fan Cheng]

or try audacity.

TFC

On 10/8/07, Eriam Schaffter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Sorry for an unusual request - does anyone know of software that is
> > able to split an mp3 file into multiple chunks at specified locations
> > (doesn't have to have gui, actually best if it didn't), one that works
> > under FreeBSD?
> >
> > I have files with a few songs in them and I would like to cut them
> > into separate files. Never been there nor done that. All advice
> > greatly appreciated.
> >
> Hello
>
> I recently used MP3::Splitter, a perl module that does exactly this.
> It's not a full software tho but maybe then you can make it suits
> exactly your needs.
>
> Just in case.
>
> Thanks
>
> Eriam
>
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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[Eriam Schaffter]

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

Hello,

Sorry for an unusual request - does anyone know of software that is
able to split an mp3 file into multiple chunks at specified locations
(doesn't have to have gui, actually best if it didn't), one that works
under FreeBSD?

I have files with a few songs in them and I would like to cut them
into separate files. Never been there nor done that. All advice
greatly appreciated.
  

Hello

I recently used MP3::Splitter, a perl module that does exactly this. 
It's not a full software tho but maybe then you can make it suits 
exactly your needs.


Just in case.

Thanks

Eriam

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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[r]

Hi,

If you really want non-gui (though, also with gui-support),
audio/mp3splt, as it almost spells, is the exact one for you.

You should have found it by something like:

  make seach key='mp3.*split'

in /usr/ports directory.


--
R. Hara


At Mon, 8 Oct 2007 23:18:31 +0200,
Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> 
> 2007/10/8, D Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > I don't know of any non-gui. However, I've been using Audacity
> > (/usr/ports/audio/audacity) doing just what you are looking to do. The
> > /usr/ports/audio/audacity port is a little dated as the latest stable
> > version at http://audacity.sourceforge.net is 1.2.6. The one in the ports
> > is at v1.2.4. However, I have the beta v1.3.3 loaded from the
> > /usr/ports/audio/audacity-devel and have not had any issues thus far.
> >
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> I am in the process of cutting the files into separate songs :)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[r]

Hi,

If you really want non-gui (though, also with gui-support),
audio/mp3splt, as it almost spells, is the exact one for you.

You should have found it by something like:

  make seach key='mp3.*split'

in /usr/ports directory.


-- 
R. Hara


At Mon, 8 Oct 2007 23:18:31 +0200,
Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> 
> 2007/10/8, D Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > I don't know of any non-gui. However, I've been using Audacity
> > (/usr/ports/audio/audacity) doing just what you are looking to do. The
> > /usr/ports/audio/audacity port is a little dated as the latest stable
> > version at http://audacity.sourceforge.net is 1.2.6. The one in the ports
> > is at v1.2.4. However, I have the beta v1.3.3 loaded from the
> > /usr/ports/audio/audacity-devel and have not had any issues thus far.
> >
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> I am in the process of cutting the files into separate songs :)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[r]

Hi,

If you really want non-gui (though, also with gui-support),
audio/mp3splt, as it almost spells, is the exact one for you.

You should have found it by something like:

  make seach key='mp3.*split'

in /usr/ports directory.

-- 
R. Hara


At Mon, 8 Oct 2007 23:18:31 +0200,
Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> 
> 2007/10/8, D Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > I don't know of any non-gui. However, I've been using Audacity
> > (/usr/ports/audio/audacity) doing just what you are looking to do. The
> > /usr/ports/audio/audacity port is a little dated as the latest stable
> > version at http://audacity.sourceforge.net is 1.2.6. The one in the ports
> > is at v1.2.4. However, I have the beta v1.3.3 loaded from the
> > /usr/ports/audio/audacity-devel and have not had any issues thus far.
> >
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> I am in the process of cutting the files into separate songs :)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[r]

Hi,

If you really want non-gui (though, also with gui-support),
audio/mp3splt, as it almost spells, is the exact one for you.

You should have found it by something like:

  make seach key='mp3.*split'

in /usr/ports directory.


-- 
R. Hara


At Mon, 8 Oct 2007 23:18:31 +0200,
Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> 
> 2007/10/8, D Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > I don't know of any non-gui. However, I've been using Audacity
> > (/usr/ports/audio/audacity) doing just what you are looking to do. The
> > /usr/ports/audio/audacity port is a little dated as the latest stable
> > version at http://audacity.sourceforge.net is 1.2.6. The one in the ports
> > is at v1.2.4. However, I have the beta v1.3.3 loaded from the
> > /usr/ports/audio/audacity-devel and have not had any issues thus far.
> >
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> I am in the process of cutting the files into separate songs :)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[Olivier Nicole]

Hi,

> Sorry for an unusual request - does anyone know of software that is
> able to split an mp3 file into multiple chunks at specified locations
> (doesn't have to have gui, actually best if it didn't), one that works
> under FreeBSD?

Not sure what you call "specified location", is that at certain time?
the sox (from the ports) is your friend. If you want to automatically
detect the blank in between the songs, then I have no answer.

I use sox to split 2.5 hours mp3 into one hour chunks because that
stupid mp3 reader does not save the hour position, only the minute
position: dont buy Philips mp3 :)

Olivier
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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

2007/10/8, D Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I don't know of any non-gui. However, I've been using Audacity
> (/usr/ports/audio/audacity) doing just what you are looking to do. The
> /usr/ports/audio/audacity port is a little dated as the latest stable
> version at http://audacity.sourceforge.net is 1.2.6. The one in the ports
> is at v1.2.4. However, I have the beta v1.3.3 loaded from the
> /usr/ports/audio/audacity-devel and have not had any issues thus far.
>

Thanks a lot!

I am in the process of cutting the files into separate songs :)

Regards,

Zbigniew Szalbot
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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[Derek Ragona]

At 03:49 PM 10/8/2007, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

Hello,

Sorry for an unusual request - does anyone know of software that is
able to split an mp3 file into multiple chunks at specified locations
(doesn't have to have gui, actually best if it didn't), one that works
under FreeBSD?

I have files with a few songs in them and I would like to cut them
into separate files. Never been there nor done that. All advice
greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much!

Zbigniew Szalbot


There may be better ways, but you can uuencode the file then use split.

You can do a man on uuencode, uudecode and split.

-Derek

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Re: software to cut mp3 files?

[D Hill]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 at 22:49 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] confabulated:


Hello,

Sorry for an unusual request - does anyone know of software that is
able to split an mp3 file into multiple chunks at specified locations
(doesn't have to have gui, actually best if it didn't), one that works
under FreeBSD?

I have files with a few songs in them and I would like to cut them
into separate files. Never been there nor done that. All advice
greatly appreciated.


I don't know of any non-gui. However, I've been using Audacity 
(/usr/ports/audio/audacity) doing just what you are looking to do. The 
/usr/ports/audio/audacity port is a little dated as the latest stable 
version at http://audacity.sourceforge.net is 1.2.6. The one in the ports 
is at v1.2.4. However, I have the beta v1.3.3 loaded from the 
/usr/ports/audio/audacity-devel and have not had any issues thus far.

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Re: Software Lojack

[RW]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:34:15 -0400
Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:12:56PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote:
> 
> 
> I know all about various precautions to be taken.   
> 
> I also know I could write something.  I just wanted
> to know if something like that is already written.

You could run fetch from a crontab entry, and log the downloads. 
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Re: Software Lojack

[Paul Schmehl]

--On Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:34:15 -0400 Jerry McAllister 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:12:56PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote:


I know all about various precautions to be taken.

I also know I could write something.  I just wanted
to know if something like that is already written.

Dell offers this in a hardware solution.  I'm sure they're buying it from 
someone, so you might be able to find out who.  Doesn't matter if the 
thieves wipe the drive.  The device phones home anyway.  (Bet it only works 
in Windows, though, but it might spark an idea or two.)


--
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Senior Information Security Analyst
The University of Texas at Dallas
http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/

Re: Software Lojack

[Jerry McAllister]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 06:12:56PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote:


I know all about various precautions to be taken.   

I also know I could write something.  I just wanted
to know if something like that is already written.

jerry



> On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 06:33:30PM -0400, Jerry wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > I am wondering if there is already written (in the ports) some utility 
> > that would either periodically and/or on boot up, take note of if the
> > machine is connected to the net and if so, send some information to a
> > configured address giving some basic information such as date/time
> > and the network address where it is connected.   
> 
> You could write a shell-script that does this and run it as a cron(8) job.
> 
> > The intent would be to put this in laptops/notebooks belonging to an
> > organization/business to track where they were, especially if they
> > were stolen.   I know, if they got in to the hands of professional
> > theft ring, the first thing they would do is wipe them, but it could
> > help track them otherwise.
> 
> Since most windows users wouldn't have a clue what to do with a FreeBSD
> machine, I think _every_ laptop would be wiped.
> 
> To secure your laptops and mitigate the consequences of theft there are
> several things you can do;
> - Encrypt the /home partitions. This will not prevent theft but will
>   reduce the chance of your data falling into the wrong hands.
> - Make frequent backups to prevent data loss.
> - Glue engraved labels to the machine, e.g. to the lid where it can't be
>   removed without damaging the LCD screen. This might make the machine
>   less desirable to a stolen goods dealer.
> 
> Roland
> -- 
> R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
> [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated]
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Re: Software Lojack

[Roland Smith]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 06:33:30PM -0400, Jerry wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am wondering if there is already written (in the ports) some utility 
> that would either periodically and/or on boot up, take note of if the
> machine is connected to the net and if so, send some information to a
> configured address giving some basic information such as date/time
> and the network address where it is connected.   

You could write a shell-script that does this and run it as a cron(8) job.

> The intent would be to put this in laptops/notebooks belonging to an
> organization/business to track where they were, especially if they
> were stolen.   I know, if they got in to the hands of professional
> theft ring, the first thing they would do is wipe them, but it could
> help track them otherwise.

Since most windows users wouldn't have a clue what to do with a FreeBSD
machine, I think _every_ laptop would be wiped.

To secure your laptops and mitigate the consequences of theft there are
several things you can do;
- Encrypt the /home partitions. This will not prevent theft but will
  reduce the chance of your data falling into the wrong hands.
- Make frequent backups to prevent data loss.
- Glue engraved labels to the machine, e.g. to the lid where it can't be
  removed without damaging the LCD screen. This might make the machine
  less desirable to a stolen goods dealer.

Roland
-- 
R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
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Re: Software RAID5

[Gabriel Dragffy]

On 23 Sep 2007, at 19:30, Matthew Seaman wrote:


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Hash: SHA256

Roland Smith wrote:


The things that you should encrypt are /home and maybe /var.


and swap.  Encrypting the swap is really quite important.

Cheers,

Matthew



Oh you know what? I grabbed an ubuntu disc, in the installation I  
configured each of the three hard drives with a 1GB partition which  
became software RAID 1, and the rest of the space another partition  
which became RAID 5 doodah. I configured all this during the  
installation using that debian installer, booted no probs. Next thing  
was to:

sudo -i
sudo aptitude update
sudo aptitude install netatalk -y

OK, done, RAID 5 system, with the OS running on RAID 1, netatlk  
installed and working a few seconds after, total time was about 45  
minutes. I've spent 4 days chasing my tail in freebsd. Wish freebsd  
would be able to help me out with software raid in sysinstall. I'd  
still very much like to figure out how to do this in freebsd, but  
unfortunately spending two weeks to do it makes me look incompetent  
to my employers. FreeBSD is running a web/database/email server and  
doing a fantastic job for that, so it might just be a case of horses  
for courses...


Regards

Gabe
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Re: Software RAID5

[Matthew Seaman]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Roland Smith wrote:

> The things that you should encrypt are /home and maybe /var.

and swap.  Encrypting the swap is really quite important.

Cheers,

Matthew


- -- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
  Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
  Kent, CT11 9PW
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Re: Software RAID5

[Maxim Khitrov]

On 9/23/07, Roland Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 05:59:01PM +0100, Gabriel Dragffy wrote:
> > This sounds good. How exactly did you manage to encrypt discs and then
> > install freebsd there? I can just about setup software raid once freebsd is
> > installed, but by then I am unable to use a hard drive because it already
> > has freebsd on it.
>
> There is no point in encrypting the whole harddisk. The OS and ports can
> be downloaded from the internet. No point in keeping them secret. They
> might in fact facilitate a known-plaintext attack.

I agree, I did it more as an exercise to learn more about the way
FreeBSD works. On my laptop I have only the /home partition encrypted.

To answer the original question, however, I always install FreeBSD via
a stage install. By that I mean that I don't actually use sysinstall
for the final system. I get a USB drive and install the base OS onto
that. Then I download the source for whichever FreeBSD version I want;
my laptop is running CURRENT, for example. Configure make.conf and
src.conf files, create a custom kernel, then make buildworld
buildkernel in /usr/src.

While the system is building I prepare the actual drive, or RAID
array, that the final OS will be installed to. Create your software
RAID volumes, partition (slice) everything, if I want to use geli for
encryption then I would overwrite the target partition with random
data before doing geli init. For my full-disk encryption I actually
overwrote the entire disk and skipped slicing altogether. The kernel
was later installed to a usb flash drive and the entire disk was used
for FreeBSD. So instead of specifying things like ad0s1a in fstab, I
simply used ad0a - no slices. The point is that unless someone
actually knew that I had FreeBSD installed there, without the flash
drive all the data on the disk looks like garbage. There isn't even a
mbr to indicate partition types. At any rate, it was a fun experiment.

So once the drives are configured, mount everything under /mnt and
wait for the source to finish building. After than, you can do `make
DESTDIR=/mnt installworld` and just like that, your new system is
ready. Well, not quite... Run `mergemaster -iD /mnt` to copy all
configuration files, installkernel with KODIR=/mnt/boot/kernel to
install the kernel, use fdisk or boot0cfg to install mbr code, and
finally 'bsdlabel -B ...' for the other boot stages.

Installing the system this way also allows you to configure some
things before that first boot. Technically, you can do the same thing
from single-user mode, but this way may be more convenient. When
you're ready, reboot, change the boot order in BIOS, if you configured
everything correctly your new system should boot up with no problems.

- Max
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Re: Software RAID5

[Roland Smith]

On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 05:59:01PM +0100, Gabriel Dragffy wrote:
> This sounds good. How exactly did you manage to encrypt discs and then 
> install freebsd there? I can just about setup software raid once freebsd is 
> installed, but by then I am unable to use a hard drive because it already 
> has freebsd on it.

There is no point in encrypting the whole harddisk. The OS and ports can
be downloaded from the internet. No point in keeping them secret. They
might in fact facilitate a known-plaintext attack.

The things that you should encrypt are /home and maybe /var.

So when installing FreeBSD you should set aside room for slices to hold
/home and /var, see below.

A possible lay-out would be;

/  200MB
/tmp   200MB
/usr   10GB
/var   2BG
/home  the rest

You can find instructions on setting up GEOM_ELI for /home on my website;
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/freebsd/index.html#home

After a reboot you might get prompted for the GELI password before the
login prompt, depending on if you've used a password.

Roland
-- 
R.F.Smith   http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/
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Re: Software RAID5

[Gabriel Dragffy]

On 22 Sep 2007, at 01:13, Maxim Khitrov wrote:


On 9/21/07, Gabriel Dragffy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi all

Hoping to get some help setting up software RAID5. Guides on the
internet seem to be few and far between, and official documentation
is a little too technical. Basically I have 3 x 500GB hard drives
which I'd like to have in a raid5 configuration, using software, root
partition on their too would be a bonus. I'd be grateful for  
assistance.


Best regards

Gabriel



From what I know, you're not going to be able to boot from them.

However, a simple solution to that is to get a 64+ MB USB flash drive
and put the kernel on that. Just use fdisk and bsdlabel to write the
boot blocks. As long as the kernel has all needed drivers and you
specify which root device to use (either via kernel configuration or
/etc/fstab), that should allow you to put everything else on the RAID
array. This is how I currently do full-disk encryption on my laptop
using GELI. Kernel is outside, everything else is encrypted, same idea
for RAID.



Hi Maxim

This sounds good. How exactly did you manage to encrypt discs and  
then install freebsd there? I can just about setup software raid once  
freebsd is installed, but by then I am unable to use a hard drive  
because it already has freebsd on it.


Regards

gabe

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