Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
Op 21-9-2012 0:20, Louis Santillan schreef:
> Wayback when ('94/'95), I had this running perfectly fine on MS DOS
> 6.22, Win95, Win98 (boot to DOS).
Then get it working again like this, and additionally/optionally swap
out components (memory drivers, shell, kernel) to see which the culprit
is. Despite all the progress in alternative DOS flavors like DR-DOS and
FreeDOS, behaviour of hardware/software still needs to be checked
against the de-facto standard reference operating system MS-DOS.
Sites like www.bootdisk.com could be usefull. When lacking a real
floppydrive, WinImage might help to extract the self-extracting content
(open WinImage, and browse from within there for the win98se.exe and see
contents, then extract to a directory).
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Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
Wayback when ('94/'95), I had this running perfectly fine on MS DOS 6.22,
Win95, Win98 (boot to DOS).
-L
On Thursday, September 20, 2012, Bernd Blaauw wrote:
> Op 18-9-2012 8:05, Louis Santillan schreef:
> > I verified the game won't run with 64M, 32M, & 16M. They all fail
> > with the EMS error. Added LOAD to the JEMMEX line as well. No
> > positive effect. Host is an Apple Mac Mini 2.3GHz C2D with 16GB RAM
> > running the latest Virtual Box 4.2. The VM is configured with VT-X.
> >
> > *If* you're interested, you can find out more about the game here
> > (http://www.fbpro-online.com/).
>
> Easiest way usually is to try with a Windows / MSDOS (boot)disk and see
> if the operating system and associated drivers (HIMEM/EMM386) are
> compatible with your application/game.
>
> Afterwards you might try replacing the memory drivers (HIMEMX, JEMM386
> or JEMMEX) and even shell (COMMAND.COM) or kernel (KERNEL.SYS instead of
> IO.SYS/MSDOS.SYS).
>
> This way you're able to verify if your game works at all under the OS
> that the game should work on anyway (MSDOS).
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
Op 18-9-2012 8:05, Louis Santillan schreef: > I verified the game won't run with 64M, 32M, & 16M. They all fail > with the EMS error. Added LOAD to the JEMMEX line as well. No > positive effect. Host is an Apple Mac Mini 2.3GHz C2D with 16GB RAM > running the latest Virtual Box 4.2. The VM is configured with VT-X. > > *If* you're interested, you can find out more about the game here > (http://www.fbpro-online.com/). Easiest way usually is to try with a Windows / MSDOS (boot)disk and see if the operating system and associated drivers (HIMEM/EMM386) are compatible with your application/game. Afterwards you might try replacing the memory drivers (HIMEMX, JEMM386 or JEMMEX) and even shell (COMMAND.COM) or kernel (KERNEL.SYS instead of IO.SYS/MSDOS.SYS). This way you're able to verify if your game works at all under the OS that the game should work on anyway (MSDOS). -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
Hi, On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Ralf A. Quint wrote: > At 10:10 AM 9/18/2012, Louis Santillan wrote: >>There's only 13K upper mem free according to mem/c. I believe it is >>in one block. And, iirc, all that most apps need is to be able to >>swap a 4k page at a time. My guess is that jemmex doesn't implement >>ems in a way that fps fbpro expects which is why it finds 0k free ems. > > Sorry, but that is not correct, you would need a full 64KB segment > for the EMS page frame for anything that is EMS 3.x/LIM compatible. > EMS 4.0 allowed for smaller page frame size, but I don't know right > now if anything below 16KB was possible, as that is the size of the > logical EMS pages, there's also the requirement that a page frame > starts at a 16K boundary. > > If jemmex the culprit should be easy to find out by testing with > another EMS manager to see if they would be able to set up EMS > memory, but with only a 13KB block available, I doubt it... I know this sounds like an advertisement almost, but it's relevant. Try EMSMAGIC. http://www.emsmagic.com/ -- "EMS Magic is an expanded memory (EMS) emulator that installs as a removable TSR and runs under DOS and Windows 9x/NTx, including XP and Vista. It provides a complete implementation of the Lotus-Intel-Microsoft (LIM) 4.0 EMS specification, including a contiguous 64K page frame. EMS Magic can also extend the NTVDM extended memory manager (XMM) to support XMS 3.0 functions. Unlike EMM386 and NTVDM's EMM, EMS Magic will create the page frame wherever there is room, including lower memory if necessary. This allows it to provide EMS on systems where other expanded memory managers fail." "EMS Magic is available free of charge for personal, non-commercial use only. If this is your intended use, you may download from the links below." http://www.emsmagic.com/files/emsmagic21_personal.zip -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
At 10:10 AM 9/18/2012, Louis Santillan wrote: >There's only 13K upper mem free according to mem/c. I believe it is >in one block. And, iirc, all that most apps need is to be able to >swap a 4k page at a time. My guess is that jemmex doesn't implement >ems in a way that fps fbpro expects which is why it finds 0k free ems. Sorry, but that is not correct, you would need a full 64KB segment for the EMS page frame for anything that is EMS 3.x/LIM compatible. EMS 4.0 allowed for smaller page frame size, but I don't know right now if anything below 16KB was possible, as that is the size of the logical EMS pages, there's also the requirement that a page frame starts at a 16K boundary. If jemmex the culprit should be easy to find out by testing with another EMS manager to see if they would be able to set up EMS memory, but with only a 13KB block available, I doubt it... Ralf -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
There's only 13K upper mem free according to mem/c. I believe it is in one block. And, iirc, all that most apps need is to be able to swap a 4k page at a time. My guess is that jemmex doesn't implement ems in a way that fps fbpro expects which is why it finds 0k free ems. I'm using the same defaults in virtual box that are described in the install howto. -L On Tuesday, September 18, 2012, Bret Johnson wrote: > Are you absolutely sure there are no errors when when you are installing > the EMM? What screen messages do you get when it is loading? > > I'm guessing what may be happening is that you have enough poorly placed > (virtual) hardware ROM modules that the EMM can't find a contiguous 64k > block of upper memory it needs to build the EMS Page Frame. You may be > able to disable some of the modules (network, USB, etc.), or move them to a > different part of memory, and get around the problem. I'm not familiar > enough with Virtual Box to know exactly how "configurable" it is. > > I know I've had similar problems on "modern" computer systems with real > hardware (EMS compatibility is not something the hardware manufacturers > even worry about or test for any more). > > > > -- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
Are you absolutely sure there are no errors when when you are installing the EMM? What screen messages do you get when it is loading? I'm guessing what may be happening is that you have enough poorly placed (virtual) hardware ROM modules that the EMM can't find a contiguous 64k block of upper memory it needs to build the EMS Page Frame. You may be able to disable some of the modules (network, USB, etc.), or move them to a different part of memory, and get around the problem. I'm not familiar enough with Virtual Box to know exactly how "configurable" it is. I know I've had similar problems on "modern" computer systems with real hardware (EMS compatibility is not something the hardware manufacturers even worry about or test for any more). -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
I verified the game won't run with 64M, 32M, & 16M. They all fail with the EMS error. Added LOAD to the JEMMEX line as well. No positive effect. Host is an Apple Mac Mini 2.3GHz C2D with 16GB RAM running the latest Virtual Box 4.2. The VM is configured with VT-X. *If* you're interested, you can find out more about the game here (http://www.fbpro-online.com/). -L On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Rugxulo wrote: > Hi, > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Louis Santillan wrote: >> I tried 64MB & 32MB. The game still sees 0K EMS. Mem/c also reports 0K >> available via Int 15h which seems odd. > > Ignore MEM, it often reports wrong numbers on things other than > conventional memory. > > Dunno exactly what to tell you. Try 16 MB RAM. Try manually loading > JEMMEX from cmdline (e.g. "JEMMEX X=TEST I=TEST LOAD"). > > Which VirtualBox are you using? Atop Windows, I presume? Is VT-X enabled? > > Honestly, I hate to say it, but VirtualBox (without VT-X) is buggy and > slow, so it's semi-useless for DOS stuff. I was using it yesterday on > my laptop, and it was painful. I don't blame them, it's hard work, but > it's still frustrating for an end user. It actually seemed that 32-bit > pmode stuff was much slower than (presumably easier to emulate) 16-bit > real mode stuff. > > You'll have to tweak a lot to try. Unfortunately none of us has that > particular game, so we can't test for you. Try creating a minimal > CONFIG.SYS + AUTOEXEC.BAT to minimize chances that other stuff is > interfering. > > You might just be better off running DOSBox, which is specifically > meant for games. It's certainly easier to setup. > > http://www.dosbox.com/comp_list.php?showID=1882&letter=F > > According to that page, this game seems to be working (says Lucasfr) in > DOSBox. > > -- > How fast is your code? > 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. > Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? > http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
Hi, On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Louis Santillan wrote: > I tried 64MB & 32MB. The game still sees 0K EMS. Mem/c also reports 0K > available via Int 15h which seems odd. Ignore MEM, it often reports wrong numbers on things other than conventional memory. Dunno exactly what to tell you. Try 16 MB RAM. Try manually loading JEMMEX from cmdline (e.g. "JEMMEX X=TEST I=TEST LOAD"). Which VirtualBox are you using? Atop Windows, I presume? Is VT-X enabled? Honestly, I hate to say it, but VirtualBox (without VT-X) is buggy and slow, so it's semi-useless for DOS stuff. I was using it yesterday on my laptop, and it was painful. I don't blame them, it's hard work, but it's still frustrating for an end user. It actually seemed that 32-bit pmode stuff was much slower than (presumably easier to emulate) 16-bit real mode stuff. You'll have to tweak a lot to try. Unfortunately none of us has that particular game, so we can't test for you. Try creating a minimal CONFIG.SYS + AUTOEXEC.BAT to minimize chances that other stuff is interfering. You might just be better off running DOSBox, which is specifically meant for games. It's certainly easier to setup. http://www.dosbox.com/comp_list.php?showID=1882&letter=F According to that page, this game seems to be working (says Lucasfr) in DOSBox. -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
I tried 64MB & 32MB. The game still sees 0K EMS. Mem/c also reports 0K available via Int 15h which seems odd. -L On Saturday, September 15, 2012, Mateusz Viste wrote: > 1GB sounds really big. I remember some games had troubles detecting memory > above a certain amount, due to some kind of overflowing in their mem > counters. I'd suggest trying to set a more classic amount of ram on your > vbox machine... Like 64MB or so. > > Mateusz > / Mobile mail / > > > > Louis Santillan > wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > >I'm having trouble running an old favorite DOS game that requires EMS > >inside of VirtualBox (Sierra Front Page Sports Football Pro 95). The > >game requires 576K Conventional RAM, and 2MB EMS. I've configured > >VirtualBox to have 1GB and installed FPS FB Pro 95 to a 32GB FAT32 > >drive with FreeDOS 1.1. Booting into Option 2, mem/c reports > >610K/13K/0K/1GB/32M of Conventional/Upper/Reserved/XMS/EMS free. > >Running the command to start the game, FPS FB Pro 95 halts, reporting > >that it found 610K Conventional and 0K EMS available. I've tried > >various options on jemmex/jemm386, changes to fdconfig.sys, and > >changes to VirtualBox but none seem to get FPS FB Pro 95 to recognize > >the available EMS. > > > >Suggestions? > > > >-L > > > -- > How fast is your code? > 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. > Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? > http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problem running a DOS game requiring EMS inside of VirtualBox
1GB sounds really big. I remember some games had troubles detecting memory above a certain amount, due to some kind of overflowing in their mem counters. I'd suggest trying to set a more classic amount of ram on your vbox machine... Like 64MB or so. Mateusz / Mobile mail / Louis Santillan wrote: >Hi all, > >I'm having trouble running an old favorite DOS game that requires EMS >inside of VirtualBox (Sierra Front Page Sports Football Pro 95). The >game requires 576K Conventional RAM, and 2MB EMS. I've configured >VirtualBox to have 1GB and installed FPS FB Pro 95 to a 32GB FAT32 >drive with FreeDOS 1.1. Booting into Option 2, mem/c reports >610K/13K/0K/1GB/32M of Conventional/Upper/Reserved/XMS/EMS free. >Running the command to start the game, FPS FB Pro 95 halts, reporting >that it found 610K Conventional and 0K EMS available. I've tried >various options on jemmex/jemm386, changes to fdconfig.sys, and >changes to VirtualBox but none seem to get FPS FB Pro 95 to recognize >the available EMS. > >Suggestions? > >-L -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
