Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

It appears the interface in my FireWire enclosure is in fact dead.
I've ordered a replacement case.

But now, due to the good advices of Clark, Kris and the others on this
board, I can do so in the knowledge that I actually need it and aren't
just wasting my money. My thanks to all of you.


On Mar 2, 6:29 pm, Clark Martin  wrote:
> tonycd wrote:
>
> >> Then you need to check your computer's FW port, the cable and the drive
> >> by swapping out each element with other devices.
>
> > The cable and the port are both known good. Is the enclosure
> > automatically irreparable?
>
> Pretty much.  Assuming it has an external power supply, that would be
> something to check.  Otherwise the fault is in the FW / IDE interface
> board inside the enclosure and there is likely nothing there to fix.
>
> --
> Clark Martin
> Redwood City, CA, USA
> Macintosh / Internet Consulting
>
> "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

It appears the interface in my FireWire enclosure is in fact dead.
I've ordered a replacement case.

But now, due to the good advices of Clark, Kris and the others on this
board, I can do so in the knowledge that I actually need it and aren't
just wasting my money. My thanks to all of you.


On Mar 2, 6:29 pm, Clark Martin  wrote:
> tonycd wrote:
>
> >> Then you need to check your computer's FW port, the cable and the drive
> >> by swapping out each element with other devices.
>
> > The cable and the port are both known good. Is the enclosure
> > automatically irreparable?
>
> Pretty much.  Assuming it has an external power supply, that would be
> something to check.  Otherwise the fault is in the FW / IDE interface
> board inside the enclosure and there is likely nothing there to fix.
>
> --
> Clark Martin
> Redwood City, CA, USA
> Macintosh / Internet Consulting
>
> "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"
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Re: 2 Monitors, a Radeon and an NVIDIA (was Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting)

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Yersinia  wrote:

>
> Aaron writes,
>
> 
> From the manufacturer's web site:
>
> >Advanced Dual Display Support
> >   Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions
> >   and refresh rates
> >Specifications
> >   ...
> >   Integrated TV-Out supports up to 1024x768 resolution
> >   Multiple Display connections
> >   DVI-I port
> >   VGA port
> >   S-Video port
> >   DVI-I to VGA & S-Video to Composite adaptors included>
>
> Wow, really?
>
> Hmmm...OK, looks like I don't have all the right adapters
>

___



A web search or wiki search should turn up diagrams for all sorts of video
connectors. No need to be tech savvy just willing to look on the web for the
info.

The shape, size and pin count will help ID what you need.

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2 Monitors, a Radeon and an NVIDIA (was Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting)

[Yersinia]

Aaron writes,

From the manufacturer's web site:

>Advanced Dual Display Support
>   Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions
>   and refresh rates
>Specifications
>   ...
>   Integrated TV-Out supports up to 1024x768 resolution
>   Multiple Display connections
>   DVI-I port
>   VGA port
>   S-Video port
>   DVI-I to VGA & S-Video to Composite adaptors included>

Wow, really? 

Hmmm...OK, looks like I don't have all the right adapters 
then...but I should also admit, I'm hardly what anybody could call "tech 
savvy" when it comes to matters like this. Up until I opened the box 
containing the Radeon, I had never even seen a video card! When I ordered 
it (over the phone with a  guy at OWC -- I called to confirm that it 
would work in a G4 Quicksilver 867 since the web page confused me -- and 
he took my order on the phone). But anyway, no adapters came with it, and 
no I didn't think to ask for any -- not tech savvy remember? I had 
ordered a couple of sticks of 512 MB RAM at the same time, and all that 
came in the box was the Radeon and the two RAM sticks.

Anyhoo, just now (prior to answering this) -- since in the December 
computer area reorganization to fit the second monitor on my desk, the G4 
tower got moved to an area where it's now even harder for me to look at 
its backside than it was before (so I can't even attempt to trace what's 
going out of the Radeon...or the NVIDIA for that matter), I went to ASP 
Graphics/Displays to see if I could figure out how it was hooked up. 
Result: yes, I see the Radeon running my primary monitor, a Gateway EV910 
19", and for the first time, I actually notice that it COULD be running a 
second display -- it says:

Display: 
   Status: No display connected.

But I have no idea from that what kind of adapter is running to the 
Gateway, or what I'd need to run into the secondary monitor (an ancient 
but functioning 15" NEC MultiSync XV15+). I still went to Google Image 
search in hopes of seeing the "backside" of a Radeon 9200. Couldn't find 
an image big enough for my aging eyes to be able to distinguish the 
ports, though, maybe just as well because I'm yet too ignorant to tell 
which is which..

OK, I'll give my BF a call tonight! Oh wait! OMG! NOW I remember why I 
had to wait till December to get the second monitor (the NEC) hooked up! 
I had suggested it in November, his previous visit. We brought the NEC 
into the bedroom where my computer desk is, but he looked at it and 
behind the G4, then we looked through that "Unidentified Computer Stuff" 
bottom drawer of my filing cabinet and he said I was going to need 
another video card, because I didn't have the right kind of adapter to 
connect the Radeon to the second monitor. I said I still had my old 
NVIDIA and went to get it, but it wasn't where I thought I'd put it, and 
20 minutes of looking, it didn't turn up. Naturally, I found it the day 
AFTER he went home! Anyway, since he hooked everything up, if I refresh 
his memory ("you couldn't make the Radeon drive both monitors because I 
was missing an adapter -- so what kind am I missing?" -- he'll be able to 
tell me what it was, and if he doesn't have one at home (he always brings 
stuff like that if he has it, and most of the time, he has "it," whatever 
it is!), I could post a WTB on the Swap List to get one.

WOW. Thank you, Aaron! :-)

~Yersinia.




"Mycelium is yourcelium."


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Aaron]

At 18:35 -0500 2009/03/02, Yersinia wrote:
>Removing the NVIDIA would mean not being able to use
>the second monitor anymore!

No! See below!

>I had originally asked him to remove the
>NVIDIA last year (Feb 2008) because I had bought a Radeon 9200 which I
>thought would be better, so he took the NVIDIA out and installed the
>Radeonit only made a marginal difference, but I kept it in there
>anyway, didn't bother him to switch back. Later on in the year I realized
>I actually had a good reason to have 2 monitors on the G4 (an idea I
>actually got from him -- when I visited him in the summer, I saw he had
>*3* monitors on HIS G4, but it took me awhile to figure out why I'D want
>more than the one I had!). But, for me to have 2 monitors, I had to have
>2 video cards -- so I kept the Radeon where it was and asked him to put
>the NVIDIA in another slot and hook the second monitor up. He did, and I
>love having the two monitors.

The Radeon 9200 will drive two monitors by itself!

>From the manufacturer's web site:

>Advanced Dual Display Support
>   Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions
>   and refresh rates
>Specifications
>   ...
>   Integrated TV-Out supports up to 1024x768 resolution
>   Multiple Display connections
>   DVI-I port
>   VGA port
>   S-Video port
>   DVI-I to VGA & S-Video to Composite adaptors included

 - Aaron

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Yersinia]

Mel writes,



You do make an interesting point, i.e., "Sometimes adding or changing a 
PCI card screws up what was working before," because it was after I got 
the Radeon video card (and maxed the RAM then too), my G4 stopped booting 
in OS 9, where it always did previously. 

The NVIDIA card is the one that actually came in my machine, but last 
year I got it into my head that a Radeon card would solve a particular 
problem, so when I bought one, my BF took the NVIDIA out and replaced it 
with the Radeon...which didn't REALLY solve my problem, but e, 
OK...so I put the NVIDIA away  Then at the end of the year when I decided 
I wanted to hook up the second monitor, I didn't see any problems with 
putting back the card which had originally come with this same 
machine.and I since I don't have to boot in OS 9 that often, I didn't 
realize THAT problem for a long time. But yes, something screwed up 
somehow before the Firewire on my external HD but only after I asked my 
BF to help me out messing with the video cards! And yes, CUDA was pressed 
at the initial installations, and later on PRAM was zapped too.

Mmmm, then again how do we know more messing around with the video cards 
might not make the problem worse instead of fixing it?!

Well, OK...next time my BF is here -- and if cleaning out the FW ports 
with toothbrush and alcohol doesn't do it -- yes, then maybe I'll try 
this. I really do need for him to do the messing around in the computer 
innards.

Thanks,

~Yersinia.



"Facing terror isn't half as fun as sharing it."


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Mel]

Sometimes adding or changing a PCI card screws up what was working before.  You 
did replace one video card that was working with a NVIDIA card.  I'm not 
suggesting that you give up your second monitor but I am suggesting that until  
that NVIDIA is removed and you restore the card it replaced, you won't know if 
the NVIDIA card is the cause of your problem.  Ordinarily I wouldn't suggest 
this removal but you have tried quite a few other  reasonable options all to 
know avail.  

If the NVIDIA card should be the cause of your problem and since you wish to 
use two monitors, that might require a solution which would be beyond your 
current problem and would require a solution I am not qualified to offer.

Mel

--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Yersinia  wrote:
From: Yersinia 
Subject: Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting
To: "G-List" 
Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 3:35 PM

Wallace Adrian D'Alessio writes,



No, but next time my BF talks about coming down for a visit I'll ask him 
to bring a working FW cable with him and do it, then try again.



U, no. His Mac (dual 1 GHz G4 Quicksilver) is 300 miles away. But I 
WAS totally stupid not to even THINK to try with my iBook, which lives in 
the next room so is easy to carry in here! 

:blush:

But no matter what the result of trying it again after cleaning the FW 
ports, this time I'll also remember to bring in the iBook!

Mel writes,



This is (a) not physically possible for me to do myself (my BF installs 
all my upgrades for me because my left hand is partly paralyzed and I'm 
mechanically inept), and even if he was here right now, (b) it's not even 
an option anymore. Removing the NVIDIA would mean not being able to use 
the second monitor anymore! I had originally asked him to remove the 
NVIDIA last year (Feb 2008) because I had bought a Radeon 9200 which I 
thought would be better, so he took the NVIDIA out and installed the 
Radeonit only made a marginal difference, but I kept it in there 
anyway, didn't bother him to switch back. Later on in the year I realized 
I actually had a good reason to have 2 monitors on the G4 (an idea I 
actually got from him -- when I visited him in the summer, I saw he had 
*3* monitors on HIS G4, but it took me awhile to figure out why I'D want 
more than the one I had!). But, for me to have 2 monitors, I had to have 
2 video cards -- so I kept the Radeon where it was and asked him to put 
the NVIDIA in another slot and hook the second monitor up. He did, and I 
love having the two monitors. And what do video cards and monitors have 
to do with external Firewire anyway? 

Nestamicky writes,



Bruce writes,



H.yeah, we shut my FW drive off too when we shut down for the 
NVIDIA reinstallation. I never used to shut it off otherwise though (and 
it never kept my BF up at night when he's here hahaha!), and shutting 
down the G4 is something I only do infrequently, when it's necessary -- 
like trying to reboot it in OS 9 when I'm in THAT wrestling match, which 
I'll actually be doing soon, iBook Rebuild gave me an idea for another 
experiment to try when I get in the mood (probably voodoo but I'll try 
anyway since I'm still at a total loss!) -- or so my BF can install 
something for mewe don't mind a little humming around here!  ;-)

Anyway, Bruce, this would bring us back to your "flaky external FW
cases" 
idea (I know the HD inside the case is good because I've been using it 
with USB to maintain my backups since the FW went down)...and that makes 
more sense to me than Nestamicky's suggestion (Nesta, IMO you should be 
more careful about ejecting USB stuff when you unplug it -- I've 
occasionally gotten angry dialog boxes at times even though I DID eject 
prior to pulling a flash drive out)...although Wallace's suggestion of 
cleaning the FW port sounds good too -- even if I can't operate on my G4, 
I can handle alcohol and a toothbrush. I know dirt can be bad for 
equipment, and my apartment is definitely not Martha Stewart!

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions.  :-)

~Yersinia.




"Just when you start to accept that Life's a bitch, she has
puppies."




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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Clark Martin]

tonycd wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Then you need to check your computer's FW port, the cable and the drive
>> by swapping out each element with other devices.
>>
> 
> The cable and the port are both known good. Is the enclosure
> automatically irreparable?

Pretty much.  Assuming it has an external power supply, that would be 
something to check.  Otherwise the fault is in the FW / IDE interface 
board inside the enclosure and there is likely nothing there to fix.

-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 6:01 PM, tonycd  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> > Then you need to check your computer's FW port, the cable and the drive
> > by swapping out each element with other devices.
> >
>
> The cable and the port are both known good. Is the enclosure
> automatically irreparable?
> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
>

The hard drive interface card that handles to IDE / FW interpretation may
be. But eliminate all other possibilities before you toss it.

Are you sure all cables and ends are undamaged and squeaky clean?
Are the ports on the machine squeaky clean?

Is it under warranty?

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

> Then you need to check your computer's FW port, the cable and the drive
> by swapping out each element with other devices.
>

The cable and the port are both known good. Is the enclosure
automatically irreparable?
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Yersinia]

Wallace Adrian D'Alessio writes,



No, but next time my BF talks about coming down for a visit I'll ask him 
to bring a working FW cable with him and do it, then try again.



U, no. His Mac (dual 1 GHz G4 Quicksilver) is 300 miles away. But I 
WAS totally stupid not to even THINK to try with my iBook, which lives in 
the next room so is easy to carry in here! 

:blush:

But no matter what the result of trying it again after cleaning the FW 
ports, this time I'll also remember to bring in the iBook!

Mel writes,



This is (a) not physically possible for me to do myself (my BF installs 
all my upgrades for me because my left hand is partly paralyzed and I'm 
mechanically inept), and even if he was here right now, (b) it's not even 
an option anymore. Removing the NVIDIA would mean not being able to use 
the second monitor anymore! I had originally asked him to remove the 
NVIDIA last year (Feb 2008) because I had bought a Radeon 9200 which I 
thought would be better, so he took the NVIDIA out and installed the 
Radeonit only made a marginal difference, but I kept it in there 
anyway, didn't bother him to switch back. Later on in the year I realized 
I actually had a good reason to have 2 monitors on the G4 (an idea I 
actually got from him -- when I visited him in the summer, I saw he had 
*3* monitors on HIS G4, but it took me awhile to figure out why I'D want 
more than the one I had!). But, for me to have 2 monitors, I had to have 
2 video cards -- so I kept the Radeon where it was and asked him to put 
the NVIDIA in another slot and hook the second monitor up. He did, and I 
love having the two monitors. And what do video cards and monitors have 
to do with external Firewire anyway? 

Nestamicky writes,



Bruce writes,



H.yeah, we shut my FW drive off too when we shut down for the 
NVIDIA reinstallation. I never used to shut it off otherwise though (and 
it never kept my BF up at night when he's here hahaha!), and shutting 
down the G4 is something I only do infrequently, when it's necessary -- 
like trying to reboot it in OS 9 when I'm in THAT wrestling match, which 
I'll actually be doing soon, iBook Rebuild gave me an idea for another 
experiment to try when I get in the mood (probably voodoo but I'll try 
anyway since I'm still at a total loss!) -- or so my BF can install 
something for mewe don't mind a little humming around here!  ;-)

Anyway, Bruce, this would bring us back to your "flaky external FW cases" 
idea (I know the HD inside the case is good because I've been using it 
with USB to maintain my backups since the FW went down)...and that makes 
more sense to me than Nestamicky's suggestion (Nesta, IMO you should be 
more careful about ejecting USB stuff when you unplug it -- I've 
occasionally gotten angry dialog boxes at times even though I DID eject 
prior to pulling a flash drive out)...although Wallace's suggestion of 
cleaning the FW port sounds good too -- even if I can't operate on my G4, 
I can handle alcohol and a toothbrush. I know dirt can be bad for 
equipment, and my apartment is definitely not Martha Stewart!

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions.  :-)

~Yersinia.




"Just when you start to accept that Life's a bitch, she has puppies."


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

> Then you need to check your computer's FW port, the cable and the drive
> by swapping out each element with other devices.
>

The cable and the port are both known good. Is the enclosure
automatically irreparable?
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Clark Martin]

tonycd wrote:
> 
>>> Joe, I ran DiskWarrior and it didn't see the FireWire disks either. I
>>> then used it to rebuild the disk directory of my own hard disk (no big
>>> problems noted), and afterward my own computer still didn't see the
>>> FireWire drive.
>>
>> Try running System Profiler and look under FireWire.  If it shows up the
>>   FW interface but not the drive it sounds like a problem with the drive.
>>
>> If it doesn't show up the interface then that or your FW connections are
>> the problem.
>>
>>
> 
> Clark, my System Profiler does not show the presence of the FireWire
> drive.

Then you need to check your computer's FW port, the cable and the drive 
by swapping out each element with other devices.


-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

> > Joe, I ran DiskWarrior and it didn't see the FireWire disks either. I
> > then used it to rebuild the disk directory of my own hard disk (no big
> > problems noted), and afterward my own computer still didn't see the
> > FireWire drive.
>
>
> Try running System Profiler and look under FireWire.  If it shows up the
>   FW interface but not the drive it sounds like a problem with the drive.
>
> If it doesn't show up the interface then that or your FW connections are
> the problem.
>
>

Clark, my System Profiler does not show the presence of the FireWire
drive.
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Clark Martin]

tonycd wrote:
> 
> Joe, I ran DiskWarrior and it didn't see the FireWire disks either. I
> then used it to rebuild the disk directory of my own hard disk (no big
> problems noted), and afterward my own computer still didn't see the
> FireWire drive.
> 
> I also downloaded the LaCie firmware updater. It didn't see the
> FireWire drive, and reported there were 0 devices available to update.
> 
> FYI, this is the exact identity of my FireWire drive (with a 320GB
> Seagate now stuffed into it). It was originally a 120 GB until the
> original HD (a Western Digital, if I recall) died.

Try running System Profiler and look under FireWire.  If it shows up the 
  FW interface but not the drive it sounds like a problem with the drive.

If it doesn't show up the interface then that or your FW connections are 
the problem.

> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/lacie-300511-d2-firewire-hard-drive-120-gb-7200-rpm-2-mb/q/loc/101/10328113.html
> 
>--Tony
> 
>> You said you ran DiskWarrior and "nothing".  What do you mean? Did it
>> rebuild the disk directory or did it report a problem preventing you
>> from doing that?
>>



-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

Joe, I ran DiskWarrior and it didn't see the FireWire disks either. I
then used it to rebuild the disk directory of my own hard disk (no big
problems noted), and afterward my own computer still didn't see the
FireWire drive.

I also downloaded the LaCie firmware updater. It didn't see the
FireWire drive, and reported there were 0 devices available to update.

FYI, this is the exact identity of my FireWire drive (with a 320GB
Seagate now stuffed into it). It was originally a 120 GB until the
original HD (a Western Digital, if I recall) died.

http://www.buy.com/prod/lacie-300511-d2-firewire-hard-drive-120-gb-7200-rpm-2-mb/q/loc/101/10328113.html

   --Tony

> You said you ran DiskWarrior and "nothing".  What do you mean? Did it
> rebuild the disk directory or did it report a problem preventing you
> from doing that?
>

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

Joe, I ran DiskWarrior and it didn't see the FireWire disks either. I
then used it to rebuild the disk directory of my own hard disk (no big
problems noted), and afterward my own computer still didn't see the
FireWire drive.

I also downloaded the LaCie firmware updater. It didn't see the
FireWire drive, and reported there were 0 devices available to update.

FYI, this is the exact identity of my FireWire drive (with a 320GB
Seagate now stuffed into it). It was originally a 120 GB until the
original HD (a Western Digital, if I recall) died.

http://www.buy.com/prod/lacie-300511-d2-firewire-hard-drive-120-gb-7200-rpm-2-mb/q/loc/101/10328113.html

   --Tony

> You said you ran DiskWarrior and "nothing".  What do you mean? Did it
> rebuild the disk directory or did it report a problem preventing you
> from doing that?
>

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 2, 2009, at 12:41 PM, nestamicky wrote:

>
> Firewire is perhaps so named because there is fire on that cable. So
> knowing this, here is how I have always shut mine down.
> 1. Eject the HD
> 2. Walk over to the external case and turn it's switch off.
> 3. Turn the computer off.
> I never ever shut the machine down while the external case is running
> with the HD in it. Never. I have always simply thought something can  
> go
> wrong. I don't do this as much with USBs but with Firewire.

Firewire is actually very robust...robust enough that you can start a  
file transfer, unplug the cable, count to five, plug it back in and  
the transfer will continue, in many cases, unless the OS determines  
that the volume is gone. I remember the reviewers at MAcWorld doing  
this at the beginning of the FW era (this was in OS 9).

I'm thinking that flaky disks in flaky external FW cases are largely  
to blame, there's a lot of cheap corner-cut gear out there.

I've never had an issue with FW drives being on when the computer is  
shut off...other than my wife yells at me "You left something on! I  
can hear something humming under that pile of stuff on your desk!" 8-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[nestamicky]

Mel wrote:
> The answer might be contained in this:
>
> "so he could put the original NVIDIA GeForce2 MX video
> card back in and hook up a second monitor on it (not to mention a major
> area cleanup-desk reorganization and reworking the "spaghetti")."
>
> Try removing the NVIDIA GeForce2 MX video
> card and re-booting.
>
> Mel
>
> --- On *Mon, 3/2/09, Yersinia //* wrote:
>
>     From: Yersinia 
> Subject: Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting
> To: "G-List" 
> Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 8:05 AM
>
> M-hmm.been following this one quietly, now going to add
>
> Over the Christmas holiday weekend while my BF was here, I shut down my 
> G4 867 Quicksilver and my USB/Firewire external HD (40 GB drive in a 
> LaCie enclosure), so he could put the original NVIDIA GeForce2 MX video 
> card back in and hook up a second monitor on it (not to mention a major 
> area cleanup-desk reorganization and reworking the "spaghetti").
> While 
> all that was successful, when it was all done and I powered everything 
> back up, the
>  external HD, which had always been Firewired to the G4, 
> "disappeared."  That is, it didn't show up on the desktop, and
> the G4 
> didn't know it was there in either Disk Utility or ASP).
>
> Important Note -- Immediately prior to shutting down and starting this, I 
> had updated my backups to the external HD over Firewire, and all was well 
> with it. This sounds like the OP's issue -- his FW drive was working fine 
> until he shut down, but when rebooting, he lost it, which is why this 
> thread got my attention.
>
> Second Important Note -- Although the Firewire is down on this drive, the 
> drive comes up perfectly well with USB -- on the desktop, in Disk Utility 
> and in ASP -- so I can still use it even though USB is suboptimal 
> compared to the Firewire -- and is completely usable as well as visible 
> on the desktop.
>
> Firewire Experiment after USB showed that the HD itself was good and I 
> could still make backups
>  and transfer data albeit horribly slowly:
>
> I only had the one FW cable, so we tried switching FW ports in the G4. No 
> go -- it didn't matter which port we used; the drive only showed up when 
> we plugged it back in with USB. My BF said this meant it could be a 
> problem with either the cable OR the FW port on the external drive case. 
> He said he'd take my cable home and test it on his system (he also has an 
> external USB/Firewire drive), and if it failed, next time he came down, 
> he'd bring another FW cable (a known working good), and we'd try it on 
> mine, but this time, he said, if it didn't work, it would mean the FW 
> port on my enclosure was bad.
>
> Alas, I didn't even THINK to try my FW cable with the iBook (and my brain 
> death gets even worse!), but it seems my cable was bad anyway at his 
> house. Sooo, for his next visit...
>
> He showed up over Valentine's weekend with a working FW cable he had just
>  
> used himself on his own equipment and, just in case, a four port USB hub. 
> No go on the FW with my machine, in either port -- which means I have no 
> more Firewire unless or until I get another enclosure. And the worse part 
> of the brain death - AGAIN it didn't occur to me to think of the iBook. 
> If only I had, it wouldn't have taken me two days and two nights to do a 
> massive data transfer to the iBook totally with USB flash drives. I'd 
> have done my iBook nuke-and-pave while he was here with the good FW cable 
> and moved all the stuff into the iBook straight out of the G4 with FW 
> Target Disk Mode!  Thank goodness for the USB hub though -- at least now 
> I can have my external HD and BOTH flash drives plugged in simultaneously 
> when needed. That helps a little anyway...
>
> But anyway -- how in the heck is it possible that just shutting down 
> could have killed the FW port in my enclosure? I never dropped my
>  
> external HD or spilled anything on it and when I used to move data from 
> it into the iBook, I would simply unplug the end that was in the G4's FW 
> port and plug it into the iBook's FW port...so other than the initial 
> plugging in (first week of Aug 2007 when I got it), I had never even 
> touched the enclosure's FW port! Even when we disconnected it from the G4 
> after the shutdown (to be able to rearrange the area and get inside the 
> G4 to make i

Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Mel]

The answer might be contained in this:

"so he could put the original NVIDIA GeForce2 MX video 
card back in and hook up a second monitor on it (not to mention a major 
area cleanup-desk reorganization and reworking the "spaghetti")."

Try removing the NVIDIA GeForce2 MX video 

card and re-booting.

Mel

--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Yersinia  wrote:
From: Yersinia 
Subject: Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting
To: "G-List" 
Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 8:05 AM

M-hmm.been following this one quietly, now going to add

Over the Christmas holiday weekend while my BF was here, I shut down my 
G4 867 Quicksilver and my USB/Firewire external HD (40 GB drive in a 
LaCie enclosure), so he could put the original NVIDIA GeForce2 MX video 
card back in and hook up a second monitor on it (not to mention a major 
area cleanup-desk reorganization and reworking the "spaghetti").
While 
all that was successful, when it was all done and I powered everything 
back up, the external HD, which had always been Firewired to the G4, 
"disappeared."  That is, it didn't show up on the desktop, and
the G4 
didn't know it was there in either Disk Utility or ASP).

Important Note -- Immediately prior to shutting down and starting this, I 
had updated my backups to the external HD over Firewire, and all was well 
with it. This sounds like the OP's issue -- his FW drive was working fine 
until he shut down, but when rebooting, he lost it, which is why this 
thread got my attention.

Second Important Note -- Although the Firewire is down on this drive, the 
drive comes up perfectly well with USB -- on the desktop, in Disk Utility 
and in ASP -- so I can still use it even though USB is suboptimal 
compared to the Firewire -- and is completely usable as well as visible 
on the desktop.

Firewire Experiment after USB showed that the HD itself was good and I 
could still make backups and transfer data albeit horribly slowly:

I only had the one FW cable, so we tried switching FW ports in the G4. No 
go -- it didn't matter which port we used; the drive only showed up when 
we plugged it back in with USB. My BF said this meant it could be a 
problem with either the cable OR the FW port on the external drive case. 
He said he'd take my cable home and test it on his system (he also has an 
external USB/Firewire drive), and if it failed, next time he came down, 
he'd bring another FW cable (a known working good), and we'd try it on 
mine, but this time, he said, if it didn't work, it would mean the FW 
port on my enclosure was bad.

Alas, I didn't even THINK to try my FW cable with the iBook (and my brain 
death gets even worse!), but it seems my cable was bad anyway at his 
house. Sooo, for his next visit...

He showed up over Valentine's weekend with a working FW cable he had just 
used himself on his own equipment and, just in case, a four port USB hub. 
No go on the FW with my machine, in either port -- which means I have no 
more Firewire unless or until I get another enclosure. And the worse part 
of the brain death - AGAIN it didn't occur to me to think of the iBook. 
If only I had, it wouldn't have taken me two days and two nights to do a 
massive data transfer to the iBook totally with USB flash drives. I'd 
have done my iBook nuke-and-pave while he was here with the good FW cable 
and moved all the stuff into the iBook straight out of the G4 with FW 
Target Disk Mode!  Thank goodness for the USB hub though -- at least now 
I can have my external HD and BOTH flash drives plugged in simultaneously 
when needed. That helps a little anyway...

But anyway -- how in the heck is it possible that just shutting down 
could have killed the FW port in my enclosure? I never dropped my 
external HD or spilled anything on it and when I used to move data from 
it into the iBook, I would simply unplug the end that was in the G4's FW 
port and plug it into the iBook's FW port...so other than the initial 
plugging in (first week of Aug 2007 when I got it), I had never even 
touched the enclosure's FW port! Even when we disconnected it from the G4 
after the shutdown (to be able to rearrange the area and get inside the 
G4 to make it run the second monitor), we did it from the G4's end.

:sigh:

~Yersinia.



"Never accept a drink from a urologist."





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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Yersinia  wrote:

>
>
> He showed up over Valentine's weekend with a working FW cable he had just
> used himself on his own equipment and, just in case, a four port USB hub.
> No go on the FW with my machine, in either port -- which means I have no
> more Firewire unless or until I get another enclosure. And the worse part
> of the brain death - AGAIN it didn't occur to me to think of the iBook.
> If only I had, it wouldn't have taken me two days and two nights to do a
> massive data transfer to the iBook totally with USB flash drives. I'd
> have done my iBook nuke-and-pave while he was here with the good FW cable
> and moved all the stuff into the iBook straight out of the G4 with FW
> Target Disk Mode!  Thank goodness for the USB hub though -- at least now
> I can have my external HD and BOTH flash drives plugged in simultaneously
> when needed. That helps a little anyway...
>
> But anyway -- how in the heck is it possible that just shutting down
> could have killed the FW port in my enclosure? I never dropped my
> external HD or spilled anything on it and when I used to move data from
> it into the iBook, I would simply unplug the end that was in the G4's FW
> port and plug it into the iBook's FW port...so other than the initial
> plugging in (first week of Aug 2007 when I got it), I had never even
> touched the enclosure's FW port! Even when we disconnected it from the G4
> after the shutdown (to be able to rearrange the area and get inside the
> G4 to make it run the second monitor), we did it from the G4's end.
>
> :sigh:
>
> ~Yersinia.
>
> 
>

Probably an unlikely cause but did you try cleaning your FW ports with an
old toothbrush and alcohol?

Also did you try connecting the drive to your BF computer?

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Yersinia]

M-hmm.been following this one quietly, now going to add

Over the Christmas holiday weekend while my BF was here, I shut down my 
G4 867 Quicksilver and my USB/Firewire external HD (40 GB drive in a 
LaCie enclosure), so he could put the original NVIDIA GeForce2 MX video 
card back in and hook up a second monitor on it (not to mention a major 
area cleanup-desk reorganization and reworking the "spaghetti"). While 
all that was successful, when it was all done and I powered everything 
back up, the external HD, which had always been Firewired to the G4, 
"disappeared."  That is, it didn't show up on the desktop, and the G4 
didn't know it was there in either Disk Utility or ASP).

Important Note -- Immediately prior to shutting down and starting this, I 
had updated my backups to the external HD over Firewire, and all was well 
with it. This sounds like the OP's issue -- his FW drive was working fine 
until he shut down, but when rebooting, he lost it, which is why this 
thread got my attention.

Second Important Note -- Although the Firewire is down on this drive, the 
drive comes up perfectly well with USB -- on the desktop, in Disk Utility 
and in ASP -- so I can still use it even though USB is suboptimal 
compared to the Firewire -- and is completely usable as well as visible 
on the desktop.

Firewire Experiment after USB showed that the HD itself was good and I 
could still make backups and transfer data albeit horribly slowly:

I only had the one FW cable, so we tried switching FW ports in the G4. No 
go -- it didn't matter which port we used; the drive only showed up when 
we plugged it back in with USB. My BF said this meant it could be a 
problem with either the cable OR the FW port on the external drive case. 
He said he'd take my cable home and test it on his system (he also has an 
external USB/Firewire drive), and if it failed, next time he came down, 
he'd bring another FW cable (a known working good), and we'd try it on 
mine, but this time, he said, if it didn't work, it would mean the FW 
port on my enclosure was bad.

Alas, I didn't even THINK to try my FW cable with the iBook (and my brain 
death gets even worse!), but it seems my cable was bad anyway at his 
house. Sooo, for his next visit...

He showed up over Valentine's weekend with a working FW cable he had just 
used himself on his own equipment and, just in case, a four port USB hub. 
No go on the FW with my machine, in either port -- which means I have no 
more Firewire unless or until I get another enclosure. And the worse part 
of the brain death - AGAIN it didn't occur to me to think of the iBook. 
If only I had, it wouldn't have taken me two days and two nights to do a 
massive data transfer to the iBook totally with USB flash drives. I'd 
have done my iBook nuke-and-pave while he was here with the good FW cable 
and moved all the stuff into the iBook straight out of the G4 with FW 
Target Disk Mode!  Thank goodness for the USB hub though -- at least now 
I can have my external HD and BOTH flash drives plugged in simultaneously 
when needed. That helps a little anyway...

But anyway -- how in the heck is it possible that just shutting down 
could have killed the FW port in my enclosure? I never dropped my 
external HD or spilled anything on it and when I used to move data from 
it into the iBook, I would simply unplug the end that was in the G4's FW 
port and plug it into the iBook's FW port...so other than the initial 
plugging in (first week of Aug 2007 when I got it), I had never even 
touched the enclosure's FW port! Even when we disconnected it from the G4 
after the shutdown (to be able to rearrange the area and get inside the 
G4 to make it run the second monitor), we did it from the G4's end.

:sigh:

~Yersinia.



"Never accept a drink from a urologist."



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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Len Gerstel]

On Mar 2, 2009, at 8:13 AM, Aaron wrote:

>
> After thinking about what I wrote, I believe that you can get the  
> same information with Disk Utility. The volumes are listed in the  
> left-hand column in their order on the disk.
>
> If a volume's directory is within the 128GB limit, it should show  
> up as mounted, even though reads and writes to part of the volume  
> may fail (silently??). If a volume's directory is beyond the 128GB  
> limit, it should show up, but as unmountable, since its directory  
> will not be readable.
>

The limit only applies to drives attached to the Mac's onboard IDE/ 
ATA channel. It is (simplified) a hardware limit of the controllers  
on the motherboard, not a software limit.

The Mac only sees a firewire storage device. It does not matter if it  
is a 10GB or 1.5TB single drive or a 6TB Raid. As long as the  
enclosure's chipset supports it, your Mac will see any size attached  
Firewire drive just fine.

Len


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Aaron]

After thinking about what I wrote, I believe that you can get the same 
information with Disk Utility. The volumes are listed in the left-hand column 
in their order on the disk.

If a volume's directory is within the 128GB limit, it should show up as 
mounted, even though reads and writes to part of the volume may fail 
(silently??). If a volume's directory is beyond the 128GB limit, it should show 
up, but as unmountable, since its directory will not be readable.

 - Aaron

>Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 02:31:04 -0800
>To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>From: Aaron 
>Subject: Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting
>
>At 18:11 -0800 2009/03/01, tonycd wrote:
>> > As for which is first, I don't think the Panther one is #1 (I think
>>> it's #3), but I can't be sure because now I can't see the sequence.
>>>
>>> But, yes... in a masterpiece of poor planning, I think the Panther one is 
>>> probably the only one that's BIGGER than 128. (Double duh.)
>>-
>
>(I'm not sure if pdisk is incluced in the standard OS X installation or if it 
>requires the xtools package, so this may possibly not work for you.)
>
>Open the Terminal and type 'sudo pdisk'. Then, after entering your 
>administrator password, type 'L' (Without the quotes, of course!) as the 
>top-level command. It will give you the size and locations of all partitions 
>on all your disks that are recognized by the system that are partition with 
>the Apple Partition Map, which yours probably are. SInce it only has to read a 
>tiny portion of the beginning of the disk, it will not be affected by the 
>128GB limit.
>
>The names of the partitions may not be the same as their current names in the 
>Finder, but if you know the approxiamate sizes of the various volumes, you can 
>probably figure out which is which.
>
>BTW, although pdisk can be a dangerous utility if you use it to alter a disk 
>by editing and writing to it, just looking at what's already there can't do 
>any harm.
>
> - Aaron

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Aaron]

At 18:11 -0800 2009/03/01, tonycd wrote:
> > As for which is first, I don't think the Panther one is #1 (I think
>> it's #3), but I can't be sure because now I can't see the sequence.
>>
>> But, yes... in a masterpiece of poor planning, I think the Panther one is 
>> probably the only one that's BIGGER than 128. (Double duh.)
>-

(I'm not sure if pdisk is incluced in the standard OS X installation or if it 
requires the xtools package, so this may possibly not work for you.)

Open the Terminal and type 'sudo pdisk'. Then, after entering your 
administrator password, type 'L' (Without the quotes, of course!) as the 
top-level command. It will give you the size and locations of all partitions on 
all your disks that are recognized by the system that are partition with the 
Apple Partition Map, which yours probably are. SInce it only has to read a tiny 
portion of the beginning of the disk, it will not be affected by the 128GB 
limit.

The names of the partitions may not be the same as their current names in the 
Finder, but if you know the approxiamate sizes of the various volumes, you can 
probably figure out which is which.

BTW, although pdisk can be a dangerous utility if you use it to alter a disk by 
editing and writing to it, just looking at what's already there can't do any 
harm.

 - Aaron

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[joe]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 4:39 PM, tonycd wrote:

> I pulled the drive from the FireWire case and popped it into the Blue
> & White, replacing its resident IDE drive. (I didn't want to mess with
> my G4 because it has a firmware upgrade for its transplant CPU. No
> sense tempting fate.) The hard drive spun up the Blue & White
> perfectly, displaying two of its three partitions.

You don't have an extra IDE spot in your G4?  If so, I'd put it in  
there (not replacing the drive with your regular system on it).  That  
way you can start up on a different drive than the one that's a problem.

And yes, I'd definitely install the hi-cap kext.

Just to clear up some confusion:  a system that won't run on a given  
machine is not responsible in itself for that partition not mounting.

You said you ran DiskWarrior and "nothing".  What do you mean? Did it  
rebuild the disk directory or did it report a problem preventing you  
from doing that?



==
Joe the Juggler
4148 Wyoming St.
St. Louis, MO 63116
(314) 771-3243
http://joethejuggler.com
==




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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

> As for which is first, I don't think the Panther one is #1 (I think
> it's #3), but I can't be sure because now I can't see the sequence.
>
> But, yes... in a masterpiece of poor planning, I think the Panther one is 
> probably the only one that's BIGGER than 128. (Double duh.)
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Ken W  wrote:

> As a follow up, DiskWarrior did repair the problems.  With the 80 GB
> external, it was able to go through the entire process of replacing the disk
> directory, but had an error at the end clearing the journal and told me to
> contact tech support.  I restarted and ran disk utility, verified and
> repaired and it mounted fine.  I ran DiskWarrior again on the drive and it
> had one item that it fixed and so far so good.
>
> Thanks for your help Wallace and Joe.
>
>
Glad it works!

you are welcome :)

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

> As for which is first, I don't think the Panther one is #1 (I think
> it's #3), but I can't be sure because now I can't see the sequence.
>
> But, yes... in a masterpiece of poor planning, I think the Panther one is 
> probably the only one that's BIGGER than 128. (Double duh.)
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

Wow, I hadn't even remembered that (duh!). Is it possible to make it
invisible by doing so?

As for which is first, I don't think the Panther one is #1 (I think
it's #3), but I can't be sure because now I can't see the sequence.

On Mar 1, 7:46 pm, insightinmind  wrote:
> On Mar 1, 2009, at 5:48 PM, tonycd wrote:
>
>
>
> > First, my apologies on a boo-boo. The partition that's invisible is
> > not the Leopard one--that shows. Ironically, it's the Panther one.
>
> Repeating what Kris said:
>
> >> Isn't this because of the 128GB limitation of the B&W?
>
> Is the Panther partition the first one? and less than 128GB?
>
> Beware of using your 320 in a B&W ... its probably only seeing the
> first 128GB ... and if that spans a partition ...
>
> Bill Connelly
> artsite:http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio
> myspace:http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

Wow, I hadn't even remembered that (duh!). Is it possible to make it
invisible by doing so?

As for which is first, I don't think the Panther one is #1 (I think
it's #3), but I can't be sure because now I can't see the sequence.

On Mar 1, 7:46 pm, insightinmind  wrote:
> On Mar 1, 2009, at 5:48 PM, tonycd wrote:
>
>
>
> > First, my apologies on a boo-boo. The partition that's invisible is
> > not the Leopard one--that shows. Ironically, it's the Panther one.
>
> Repeating what Kris said:
>
> >> Isn't this because of the 128GB limitation of the B&W?
>
> Is the Panther partition the first one? and less than 128GB?
>
> Beware of using your 320 in a B&W ... its probably only seeing the
> first 128GB ... and if that spans a partition ...
>
> Bill Connelly
> artsite:http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio
> myspace:http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[insightinmind]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 5:48 PM, tonycd wrote:

>
> First, my apologies on a boo-boo. The partition that's invisible is
> not the Leopard one--that shows. Ironically, it's the Panther one.

Repeating what Kris said:

>> Isn't this because of the 128GB limitation of the B&W?
>


Is the Panther partition the first one? and less than 128GB?

Beware of using your 320 in a B&W ... its probably only seeing the  
first 128GB ... and if that spans a partition ...


Bill Connelly
artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio
myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio




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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

LaCie posts a firmware update. But my question is, is that even
possible when I can't even make the drive show up first?

On Mar 1, 4:42 pm, Kris Tilford  wrote:
>Have you checked for firmware
> updates for the enclosure?
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

First, my apologies on a boo-boo. The partition that's invisible is
not the Leopard one--that shows. Ironically, it's the Panther one.

As for the enclosure, it's one of those gray LaCie standup models with
the blue headlight. It looks like the modern ones, but it was sold
several years ago as a 120 or 180 GB and has my replacement 320 popped
into it. It did work fine for a considerable while, though. Sorry I
don't have a model number to give you, but I had to tear off the only
ID in order to access the upper of the case screws.

On Mar 1, 4:42 pm, Kris Tilford  wrote:
> On Mar 1, 2009, at 4:30 PM, tonycd wrote:
>
> > Obviously the failure to display all three is an eyebrow-raiser. The
> > drive is a very low-mileage, late-model Seagate 320. I know Seagates
> > and Maxtors (same maker) have had trouble lately, but I also know this
> > has been especially true on a line of much larger drives that doesn't
> > include this one. (The partition that wasn't recognized has Leopard on
> > it from a MacBook. Is it possible the partition didn't show up in a
> > Smurf because the machine can't run Leopard?)
>
> Isn't this because of the 128GB limitation of the B&W?
>
> If one of those two partitions crosses the limit, DON'T WRITE ANYTHING
> TO IT, you may wreck both partitions. You can install "Overdrive" to
> safely mount and write to all partitions:
>
> 
>
> Or alternatively there is Intech Hi-Cap extension, or use the Open
> Firmware commands here:
>   >
>
> It's starting to sound like something's wrong with the enclosure? What
> chipset does the enclosure use, and have you checked for firmware
> updates for the enclosure?
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Kris Tilford]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 4:30 PM, tonycd wrote:

> Obviously the failure to display all three is an eyebrow-raiser. The
> drive is a very low-mileage, late-model Seagate 320. I know Seagates
> and Maxtors (same maker) have had trouble lately, but I also know this
> has been especially true on a line of much larger drives that doesn't
> include this one. (The partition that wasn't recognized has Leopard on
> it from a MacBook. Is it possible the partition didn't show up in a
> Smurf because the machine can't run Leopard?)

Isn't this because of the 128GB limitation of the B&W?

If one of those two partitions crosses the limit, DON'T WRITE ANYTHING  
TO IT, you may wreck both partitions. You can install "Overdrive" to  
safely mount and write to all partitions:



Or alternatively there is Intech Hi-Cap extension, or use the Open  
Firmware commands here:



It's starting to sound like something's wrong with the enclosure? What  
chipset does the enclosure use, and have you checked for firmware  
updates for the enclosure?


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

I temporarily stayed off the board until Ken's problem was solved. I'm
glad for him, but mine still isn't.

I did the daily, weekly and monthly cleanup chores (MacJanitor was my
tool of choice). I ran DiskWarrior 3.0.3 for Tiger. Nothing.

I tried the external drive on a Blue & White. It didn't recognize it
either.

I pulled the drive from the FireWire case and popped it into the Blue
& White, replacing its resident IDE drive. (I didn't want to mess with
my G4 because it has a firmware upgrade for its transplant CPU. No
sense tempting fate.) The hard drive spun up the Blue & White
perfectly, displaying two of its three partitions.

Obviously the failure to display all three is an eyebrow-raiser. The
drive is a very low-mileage, late-model Seagate 320. I know Seagates
and Maxtors (same maker) have had trouble lately, but I also know this
has been especially true on a line of much larger drives that doesn't
include this one. (The partition that wasn't recognized has Leopard on
it from a MacBook. Is it possible the partition didn't show up in a
Smurf because the machine can't run Leopard?)







On Feb 28, 9:54 pm, tonycd  wrote:
> Thanks, Joe. I have a Quicksilver 867 upgraded to 1.5ghz, running
> Tiger.
>
> I've tried booting from an OS 9 CD (wouldn't boot), and a Norton CD
> (ditto). Tech Tool Deluxe couldn't see any of the three partitions,
> either.
>
> My question: If I somehow failed to trash the desktop disk icons on my
> last use, which I know is the usual cause for this problem, and
> therefore "fried the B Tree," which I read is the consequence of such
> misbehavior, is that damage in the FireWire case or the hard drive
> itself? (If the latter, obviously the exercise of disassembling the
> FireWire drive -- although I know how, and have done it before --
> wouldn't be worth the exertion.)
>
> My usual HD is running fine. I'm just trying to keep my backup tools
> working as preventive medicine. If this exercise did confirm that the
> FireWire case was the problem, would it help me in any way except to
> confirm I needed a new FireWire case?
>
>
>
> > I'm not sure what computer you have, but if it's a Sawtooth, you
> > could try opening the case and plugging the external drive into the
> > internal FW port on the motherboard.
>
> > You could also try taking the drive itself out of the FW case and
> > attaching it to one of the IDE buses.
>
> On Feb 28, 9:29 pm, joe  wrote:
>
> > On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:19 PM, tonycd wrote:
>
> > > Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
> > > the same exact problem.
>
> > > Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
> > > partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.) Worked last time. This
> > > time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
> > > Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
> > > it's running normally.
>
> > > Uh-oh.
>
> > >--Tony
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

I temporarily stayed off the board until Ken's problem was solved. I'm
glad for him, but mine still isn't.

I did the daily, weekly and monthly cleanup chores (MacJanitor was my
tool of choice). I ran DiskWarrior 3.0.3 for Tiger. Nothing.

I tried the external drive on a Blue & White. It didn't recognize it
either.

I pulled the drive from the FireWire case and popped it into the Blue
& White, replacing its resident IDE drive. (I didn't want to mess with
my G4 because it has a firmware upgrade for its transplant CPU. No
sense tempting fate.) The hard drive spun up the Blue & White
perfectly, displaying two of its three partitions.

Obviously the failure to display all three is an eyebrow-raiser. The
drive is a very low-mileage, late-model Seagate 320. I know Seagates
and Maxtors (same maker) have had trouble lately, but I also know this
has been especially true on a line of much larger drives that doesn't
include this one. (The partition that wasn't recognized has Leopard on
it from a MacBook. Is it possible the partition didn't show up in a
Smurf because the machine can't run Leopard?)







On Feb 28, 9:54 pm, tonycd  wrote:
> Thanks, Joe. I have a Quicksilver 867 upgraded to 1.5ghz, running
> Tiger.
>
> I've tried booting from an OS 9 CD (wouldn't boot), and a Norton CD
> (ditto). Tech Tool Deluxe couldn't see any of the three partitions,
> either.
>
> My question: If I somehow failed to trash the desktop disk icons on my
> last use, which I know is the usual cause for this problem, and
> therefore "fried the B Tree," which I read is the consequence of such
> misbehavior, is that damage in the FireWire case or the hard drive
> itself? (If the latter, obviously the exercise of disassembling the
> FireWire drive -- although I know how, and have done it before --
> wouldn't be worth the exertion.)
>
> My usual HD is running fine. I'm just trying to keep my backup tools
> working as preventive medicine. If this exercise did confirm that the
> FireWire case was the problem, would it help me in any way except to
> confirm I needed a new FireWire case?
>
>
>
> > I'm not sure what computer you have, but if it's a Sawtooth, you
> > could try opening the case and plugging the external drive into the
> > internal FW port on the motherboard.
>
> > You could also try taking the drive itself out of the FW case and
> > attaching it to one of the IDE buses.
>
> On Feb 28, 9:29 pm, joe  wrote:
>
> > On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:19 PM, tonycd wrote:
>
> > > Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
> > > the same exact problem.
>
> > > Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
> > > partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.) Worked last time. This
> > > time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
> > > Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
> > > it's running normally.
>
> > > Uh-oh.
>
> > >--Tony
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[insightinmind]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Ken W wrote:

> As a follow up, DiskWarrior did repair the problems.  With the 80  
> GB external, it was able to go through the entire process of  
> replacing the disk directory, but had an error at the end clearing  
> the journal and told me to contact tech support.  I restarted and  
> ran disk utility, verified and repaired and it mounted fine.  I ran  
> DiskWarrior again on the drive and it had one item that it fixed  
> and so far so good.


Congratulations...

Looks like something I might invest in too ... Next time I have a  
spare $99 ...

Even keeping backups the way I do ... using CCC 3.1.3, I suppose it  
could copy a problem right over to a backup ...

Bill Connelly
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[joe]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Ken W wrote:

> As a follow up, DiskWarrior did repair the problems.  With the 80  
> GB external, it was able to go through the entire process of  
> replacing the disk directory, but had an error at the end clearing  
> the journal and told me to contact tech support.  I restarted and  
> ran disk utility, verified and repaired and it mounted fine.  I ran  
> DiskWarrior again on the drive and it had one item that it fixed  
> and so far so good.
>
> Thanks for your help Wallace and Joe.

DW saved my butt on more than one occasion already.

I try to keep a current backup on a firewire drive myself, but when  
everything's hunky-dory, it's really hard to realize that it is an  
important use of time, so invariably when something's gone wrong, DW  
rescued me.  I had one very scary time when it said there was  
something wrong with the hardware besides having a bad directory  
file.  It took many hours to rebuild the file, but I was able to get  
everything I needed back and safely onto a new drive.

==
Joe the Juggler
4148 Wyoming St.
St. Louis, MO 63116
(314) 771-3243
http://joethejuggler.com
==




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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Ken W]

As a follow up, DiskWarrior did repair the problems.  With the 80 GB
external, it was able to go through the entire process of replacing the disk
directory, but had an error at the end clearing the journal and told me to
contact tech support.  I restarted and ran disk utility, verified and
repaired and it mounted fine.  I ran DiskWarrior again on the drive and it
had one item that it fixed and so far so good.

Thanks for your help Wallace and Joe.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Cyrus  wrote:

>
> Yes, DiskWarrior is a very handy utility to own. I have resurrected
> many a corrupted HD that Disk Utility won't fix. It also has an OS9
> utility, which works well also. I wish I had the new version for Intel
> macs... I'd say go for it.
>
>
> -Cyrus
>
>
> On Mar 1, 10:58 am, Ken W  wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Bruce Johnson
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Ken, you said Disk Utility could see them, what happened when you
> > > tried to repair them?
> >
> > I can verify or repair them, and it says that they are OK.  But I click
> > "Mount" and nothing happens.  In Disk Utility there is no information for
> > the unmounted partitions/ drive, only saying that they are unmounted and
> > what size they are...
> >
> > Unless anyone thinks it would not solve the problem I am planning on
> buying
> > and running DiskWarrior.  The general consensus seems to be that this is
> a
> > worthwhile utility to own.
> >
>

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Cyrus]

Yes, DiskWarrior is a very handy utility to own. I have resurrected
many a corrupted HD that Disk Utility won't fix. It also has an OS9
utility, which works well also. I wish I had the new version for Intel
macs... I'd say go for it.


 -Cyrus


On Mar 1, 10:58 am, Ken W  wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Bruce Johnson
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ken, you said Disk Utility could see them, what happened when you
> > tried to repair them?
>
> I can verify or repair them, and it says that they are OK.  But I click
> "Mount" and nothing happens.  In Disk Utility there is no information for
> the unmounted partitions/ drive, only saying that they are unmounted and
> what size they are...
>
> Unless anyone thinks it would not solve the problem I am planning on buying
> and running DiskWarrior.  The general consensus seems to be that this is a
> worthwhile utility to own.
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Ken W]

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Bruce Johnson
wrote:

>
> Ken, you said Disk Utility could see them, what happened when you
> tried to repair them?


I can verify or repair them, and it says that they are OK.  But I click
"Mount" and nothing happens.  In Disk Utility there is no information for
the unmounted partitions/ drive, only saying that they are unmounted and
what size they are...

Unless anyone thinks it would not solve the problem I am planning on buying
and running DiskWarrior.  The general consensus seems to be that this is a
worthwhile utility to own.

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 8:05 AM, insightinmind wrote:

>
> I thought OnyX and AppleJack did a respectable job of "fixing
> things", directory-wise, if that's what the problem is ...

Onyx and Applejack don't do anything for fixing directory structures,  
that is the province of DiskWarrior.

Ken, you said Disk Utility could see them, what happened when you  
tried to repair them?

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[joe]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 9:05 AM, insightinmind wrote:

> I thought OnyX and AppleJack did a respectable job of "fixing  
> things", directory-wise, if that's what the problem is ...

Onyx does not rebuild a corrupted directory file.  I don't know about  
AppleJack.  DiskWarrior rebuilds the directory.

On Mar 1, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Ken W wrote:

> I am not a hard drive guru like some of the people on here with  
> expertise regarding formatting and whatnot, but my guess is that a  
> system file is corrupted?  Is this really that rare of an issue?   
> Should I go drop a c-note and buy DiskWarrior?

Not a system file, but the disk directory file.  I don't know how  
rare it is, but it's happened to me several times.  DiskWarrior is  
definitely worth it.

Joe

==
Joe the Juggler
4148 Wyoming St.
St. Louis, MO 63116
(314) 771-3243
http://joethejuggler.com
==




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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Ken W  wrote:

> I doubt that we are dealing with separate issues, it is the same problem
> across both drives and happened simultaneously.  I also doubt this is a
> firewire or power issue because, again, one of the partitions is working
> fine (read/ write/ running apps).  Aside from that, these wouldn't even
> power up if they had to draw power from firewire?  I've never heard of
> that.  All of the partitions show up in Disk Utility but are unmounted and
> unable to mount.
>
> I am not a hard drive guru like some of the people on here with expertise
> regarding formatting and whatnot, but my guess is that a system file is
> corrupted?  Is this really that rare of an issue?  Should I go drop a c-note
> and buy DiskWarrior?
>
>
> 


After what you have said here I agree the next place to look is a corrupted
file or block.

Why not join the swap list and ask for Disk Warrior in a want to buy WTB
subject line?
Probably save some if on a budget.

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[insightinmind]

I might wait for some more comments from others before buying any  
software ...

I'm not one of the LEM gurus, but will wait for a response from one  
of them.

I thought OnyX and AppleJack did a respectable job of "fixing  
things", directory-wise, if that's what the problem is ...

Guru responses needed here ...

Sorry I could not be of any help.

Bill Connelly
artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio
myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Ken W]

I doubt that we are dealing with separate issues, it is the same problem
across both drives and happened simultaneously.  I also doubt this is a
firewire or power issue because, again, one of the partitions is working
fine (read/ write/ running apps).  Aside from that, these wouldn't even
power up if they had to draw power from firewire?  I've never heard of
that.  All of the partitions show up in Disk Utility but are unmounted and
unable to mount.

I am not a hard drive guru like some of the people on here with expertise
regarding formatting and whatnot, but my guess is that a system file is
corrupted?  Is this really that rare of an issue?  Should I go drop a c-note
and buy DiskWarrior?

Thanks
Ken

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 6:48 AM, insightinmind wrote:

> Another thread talked about the Lacie's "power bricks". Are they hooked up,
> and working properly?(I searched Apple's Forum for "reset firewire")
>
> Maybe one of the drive's bricks (another name: wall wart) is no longer
> working, and the FW drive is trying to draw power off the firewire line
> unsuccessfully.
>
> Really guessing in the dark, here: 2 drives ... 2 separate issues, maybe
> ... inter-related, maybe ...
>

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Ken W]

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 6:37 AM, insightinmind wrote:

>
> I would Take It One Drive at a Time.
>
> Sometimes onboard FW needs to be reset, but, IIRC, this would be indicated
> if nothing was being mounted.
> From a similar thread in Apple Discussions (
> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8649537�)
> "Tried the Firewire self resetting fuse reset? (unhook all accessories,
> shut down, take out battery and unplug AC power to wall/power strip), let
> sit for maybe 15 minutes, then reassemble)"
>

Did this and there was no difference...


> Have you tried using the drives on another Mac if one is available?
>

No I haven't because I don't have another mac...


>
> Has the "128GB limit" somehow come into play on the 750GB drive (probably
> not since its an external Lacie)?
>

This limit doesn't affect my particular machine/ OS combination...

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[insightinmind]

Another thread talked about the Lacie's "power bricks". Are they  
hooked up, and working properly?
(I searched Apple's Forum for "reset firewire")

Maybe one of the drive's bricks (another name: wall wart) is no  
longer working, and the FW drive is trying to draw power off the  
firewire line unsuccessfully.

Really guessing in the dark, here: 2 drives ... 2 separate issues,  
maybe ... inter-related, maybe ...

Bill Connelly
artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio
myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[insightinmind]

>
> I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2  
> external firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.   
> The 750 has 3 partitions.  Everything was working great, but I  
> powered off my computer today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is  
> unmounted, and 2 of the 3 partitions on the 750 are unmounted.   
> Disk Utility can see these unmounted drives/ partitions, but can  
> not mount them.


I would Take It One Drive at a Time.

Sometimes onboard FW needs to be reset, but, IIRC, this would be  
indicated if nothing was being mounted.

 From a similar thread in Apple Discussions (http:// 
discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8649537�)
"Tried the Firewire self resetting fuse reset? (unhook all  
accessories, shut down, take out battery and unplug AC power to wall/ 
power strip), let sit for maybe 15 minutes, then reassemble)"

I would try this in conjunction with an app that rebuilds the  
directories, but not destroying file data ... I'm guessing OnyX for  
Panther is one.

Have you tried using the drives on another Mac if one is available?

Has the "128GB limit" somehow come into play on the 750GB drive  
(probably not since its an external Lacie)?

Bill Connelly
artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio
myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Charles Davis]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 12:59 AM, Clark Martin wrote:

>
> Charles Davis wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:33 PM, tonycd wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into  
>>> nearly
>>> the same exact problem.
>>>
>>> Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
>>> partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.)
>>
>> Just to try and keep things 'understandable' -
>>
>>
>> Your External Firewire drive has 3 partitions.
>>
>> One of which boots Panther,
>> One of which boots Tiger, and
>> One of which boots Leopard.
>>
>> ALL of these partitions are JUST Partitions.
>> There isn't ANYTHING other than the contents to define them as
>> Panther, Tiger, or Leopard.
>>
>> The question is, which format is the Hard Disk?
>>
>> HFS, HFS+, or Journaled HFS+ ???
>
> The harddisk isn't any format, the partitions are.  You could mix HFS,
> HFS+ and FAT 32 on the same drive if you wanted to.  The harddisk  
> has a
> certain partition scheme.
>
> -- 
> Clark Martin
> Redwood City, CA, USA
> Macintosh / Internet Consulting

You are right Clark --- chalk it up to trying to simplify too much.

Chuck D.
>
> "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Ken W]

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 1:32 AM, Bill Christensen <
billc_li...@greenbuilder.com> wrote:

>
> I'm guessing that something changed on your boot drive so that it no
> longer properly loads the drivers or whatever needed to see the
> Firewires.
>
> Try running disk utility's HD repair or DiskWarrior from the CD on
> the boot drive.  (if you can see the other drives when you boot off
> the CD, that's a good sign).


I have run Disk Utility and it "sees" the other drive and partition, but
they are greyed-out (because they are unmounted?).  If I tell it to mount,
it does nothing.


> As others have mentioned, you may want to try Onyx (or applejack, or
> that third one which is slipping my mind right this sec) on your boot
> drive.  They'll run the standard nightly/weekly/monthly cleanup
> routines which *won't happen* if you regularly turn your machine off
> at night.   It can make a world of difference - I recommended it to a
> friend the other day who is on off-grid solar power (therefore very
> conscious about energy use and always turns everything off) and he
> reported that it was like a new machine after that.


I will do this in the future but I don't think it will help me mount my hard
drive/ partitions?

>
>
> The other possibilities are that your Firewire ports got fried, or
> that something happened like a lightning strike in the area which
> toasted both externals simultaneously.  If the above doesn't fix the
> problem, pull one open and put the drive in the machine to see what
> happens.


I thought of this but it doesn't make sense to me because the one partition
is functioning fine.


>
>
> At 6:49 PM -0800 2/28/09, Ken W wrote:
> >Hi Wallace, thank you for your help, here's the info:
> >
> >
> >What file system were they formatted in?
> >They are in Journaled HFS+
> >
> >Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
> > Yes
> >
> >Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
> >   No
> >
> >Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may
> >have files in startup or shutdown folders?
> >
> >No, I started to install Flash 10, but did not get through the
> >process because this requires OS X 10.4 or greater.  I hope this is
> >helpful.  One other thing, when I booted up before this problem, the
> >computer got stuck at the grey apple screen, sat there for over 10
> >minutes so I had to hard restart it.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W
> ><ken...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2
> >external firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.
> >The 750 has 3 partitions.  Everything was working great, but I
> >powered off my computer today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is
> >unmounted, and 2 of the 3 partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk
> >Utility can see these unmounted drives/ partitions, but can not
> >mount them.
> >
> >What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Bill Christensen
> 
>
> Green Building Professionals Directory:  >
> Sustainable Building Calendar: 
> Green Real Estate: 
> Straw Bale Registry: 
> Books/videos/software: 
>
> >
>

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Bill Christensen]

I'm guessing that something changed on your boot drive so that it no 
longer properly loads the drivers or whatever needed to see the 
Firewires.

Try running disk utility's HD repair or DiskWarrior from the CD on 
the boot drive.  (if you can see the other drives when you boot off 
the CD, that's a good sign).

As others have mentioned, you may want to try Onyx (or applejack, or 
that third one which is slipping my mind right this sec) on your boot 
drive.  They'll run the standard nightly/weekly/monthly cleanup 
routines which *won't happen* if you regularly turn your machine off 
at night.   It can make a world of difference - I recommended it to a 
friend the other day who is on off-grid solar power (therefore very 
conscious about energy use and always turns everything off) and he 
reported that it was like a new machine after that.

The other possibilities are that your Firewire ports got fried, or 
that something happened like a lightning strike in the area which 
toasted both externals simultaneously.  If the above doesn't fix the 
problem, pull one open and put the drive in the machine to see what 
happens.

Good luck!



At 6:49 PM -0800 2/28/09, Ken W wrote:
>Hi Wallace, thank you for your help, here's the info:
>
>
>What file system were they formatted in?
>They are in Journaled HFS+
>
>Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
> Yes
>
>Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
>   No
>
>Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may 
>have files in startup or shutdown folders? 
>
>No, I started to install Flash 10, but did not get through the 
>process because this requires OS X 10.4 or greater.  I hope this is 
>helpful.  One other thing, when I booted up before this problem, the 
>computer got stuck at the grey apple screen, sat there for over 10 
>minutes so I had to hard restart it.
>
>
>
>On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W 
><ken...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 
>external firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB. 
>The 750 has 3 partitions.  Everything was working great, but I 
>powered off my computer today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is 
>unmounted, and 2 of the 3 partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk 
>Utility can see these unmounted drives/ partitions, but can not 
>mount them.
>
>What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Bill Christensen


Green Building Professionals Directory: 
Sustainable Building Calendar: 
Green Real Estate: 
Straw Bale Registry: 
Books/videos/software: 

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Clark Martin]

Charles Davis wrote:
> 
> On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:33 PM, tonycd wrote:
> 
>> Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
>> the same exact problem.
>>
>> Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
>> partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.)
> 
> Just to try and keep things 'understandable' -
> 
> 
> Your External Firewire drive has 3 partitions.
> 
> One of which boots Panther,
> One of which boots Tiger, and
> One of which boots Leopard.
> 
> ALL of these partitions are JUST Partitions.
> There isn't ANYTHING other than the contents to define them as  
> Panther, Tiger, or Leopard.
> 
> The question is, which format is the Hard Disk?
> 
> HFS, HFS+, or Journaled HFS+ ???

The harddisk isn't any format, the partitions are.  You could mix HFS, 
HFS+ and FAT 32 on the same drive if you wanted to.  The harddisk has a 
certain partition scheme.

-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 external
> firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750 has 3
> partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my computer
> today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
> partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these unmounted
> drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>
> What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
> _


Hey guys!

It's good that Tony is getting help here but his problem may not have the
same cause. I am not an OS X expert can we get some more opinions on Ken Ws
problem?

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Charles Davis]

On Mar 1, 2009, at 12:04 AM, tonycd wrote:

>
>
>
> On Feb 28, 10:47 pm, Charles Davis  wrote:
>> On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:33 PM, tonycd wrote:
>>
> I know it isn't the first. I THINK it was the second. (Of course, now
> I can't find out.)
>
>
>> The question is, which format is the Hard Disk?
>>
>> HFS, HFS+, or Journaled HFS+ ???


I think I'd take Kris's idea for a start.


> On Feb 28, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Ken W wrote:
>>
>>> What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>>
>> I used to boot from Firewire HDs all the time, and occasionally would
>> run into a similar issue. The problem was somehow something switched
>> the Firewire kext in OS X to some other setting. I remember I looked
>> in the System.log when the Firewire was working and it always said
>> something like "A400" and "400Mbps" somewhere. When it was broken and
>> not mounting the HDs it said "A100" and "100Mbps" instead. I believe
>> the solution was to use Onyx, Cocktail, or Applejack to clean the
>> caches, etc., and reboot. Then it acted normally again. I don't know
>> if this is your problem, but it worked for me when my Firewire drives
>> stopped mounting.
>>

Whatever, when you find a fix, please let us know.

Chuck D.

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Ken W  wrote:

> Hi Wallace, thank you for your help, here's the info:
>
> What file system were they formatted in?
>They are in Journaled HFS+
>
> Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
> Yes
>
> Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
>   No
>
> Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may have files
> in startup or shutdown folders?
>
> No, I started to install Flash 10, but did not get through the process
> because this requires OS X 10.4 or greater.  I hope this is helpful.  One
> other thing, when I booted up before this problem, the computer got stuck at
> the grey apple screen, sat there for over 10 minutes so I had to hard
> restart it.
> _
>

On this page is a grey screen link. check it out;

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1411#symp3

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

On Feb 28, 10:47 pm, Charles Davis  wrote:
> On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:33 PM, tonycd wrote:
>
I know it isn't the first. I THINK it was the second. (Of course, now
I can't find out.)


> The question is, which format is the Hard Disk?
>
> HFS, HFS+, or Journaled HFS+ ???
>
> > Worked last time. This
> > time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
> > Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
> > it's running normally.
>
> > Uh-oh.
>
> >--Tony
>
> > On Feb 28, 7:55 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
> >  wrote:
> >> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W  wrote:
> >>> Hi,
>
> >>> I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2
> >>> external
> >>> firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750
> >>> has 3
> >>> partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my
> >>> computer
> >>> today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
> >>> partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these
> >>> unmounted
> >>> drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>
> >>> What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>
> >>> __
>
> >> What file system were they formatted in?
>
> >> Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
>
> >> Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
>
> >> Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may
> >> have files
> >> in startup or shutdown folders?
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Charles Davis]

On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:33 PM, tonycd wrote:

>
> Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
> the same exact problem.
>
> Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
> partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.)

Just to try and keep things 'understandable' -


Your External Firewire drive has 3 partitions.

One of which boots Panther,
One of which boots Tiger, and
One of which boots Leopard.

ALL of these partitions are JUST Partitions.
There isn't ANYTHING other than the contents to define them as  
Panther, Tiger, or Leopard.

The question is, which format is the Hard Disk?

HFS, HFS+, or Journaled HFS+ ???

> Worked last time. This
> time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
> Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
> it's running normally.
>
> Uh-oh.
>
>--Tony
>
>
> On Feb 28, 7:55 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
>  wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>
>>> I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2  
>>> external
>>> firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750  
>>> has 3
>>> partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my  
>>> computer
>>> today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
>>> partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these  
>>> unmounted
>>> drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>>
>>> What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>>
>>> __
>>
>> What file system were they formatted in?
>>
>> Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
>>
>> Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
>>
>> Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may  
>> have files
>> in startup or shutdown folders?

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

Thanks, Joe. I have a Quicksilver 867 upgraded to 1.5ghz, running
Tiger.

I've tried booting from an OS 9 CD (wouldn't boot), and a Norton CD
(ditto). Tech Tool Deluxe couldn't see any of the three partitions,
either.

My question: If I somehow failed to trash the desktop disk icons on my
last use, which I know is the usual cause for this problem, and
therefore "fried the B Tree," which I read is the consequence of such
misbehavior, is that damage in the FireWire case or the hard drive
itself? (If the latter, obviously the exercise of disassembling the
FireWire drive -- although I know how, and have done it before --
wouldn't be worth the exertion.)

My usual HD is running fine. I'm just trying to keep my backup tools
working as preventive medicine. If this exercise did confirm that the
FireWire case was the problem, would it help me in any way except to
confirm I needed a new FireWire case?


>
> I'm not sure what computer you have, but if it's a Sawtooth, you
> could try opening the case and plugging the external drive into the
> internal FW port on the motherboard.
>
> You could also try taking the drive itself out of the FW case and
> attaching it to one of the IDE buses.
>


On Feb 28, 9:29 pm, joe  wrote:
> On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:19 PM, tonycd wrote:
>
> > Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
> > the same exact problem.
>
> > Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
> > partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.) Worked last time. This
> > time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
> > Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
> > it's running normally.
>
> > Uh-oh.
>
> >--Tony

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

Thanks, Joe. I have a Quicksilver 867 upgraded to 1.5ghz, running
Tiger.

I've tried booting from an OS 9 CD (wouldn't boot), and a Norton CD
(ditto). Tech Tool Deluxe couldn't see any of the three partitions,
either.

My question: If I somehow failed to trash the desktop disk icons on my
last use, which I know is the usual cause for this problem, and
therefore "fried the B Tree," which I read is the consequence of such
misbehavior, is that damage in the FireWire case or the hard drive
itself? (If the latter, obviously the exercise of disassembling the
FireWire drive -- although I know how, and have done it before --
wouldn't be worth the exertion.)

My usual HD is running fine. I'm just trying to keep my backup tools
working as preventive medicine. If this exercise did confirm that the
FireWire case was the problem, would it help me in any way except to
confirm I needed a new FireWire case?


>
> I'm not sure what computer you have, but if it's a Sawtooth, you
> could try opening the case and plugging the external drive into the
> internal FW port on the motherboard.
>
> You could also try taking the drive itself out of the FW case and
> attaching it to one of the IDE buses.
>


On Feb 28, 9:29 pm, joe  wrote:
> On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:19 PM, tonycd wrote:
>
> > Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
> > the same exact problem.
>
> > Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
> > partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.) Worked last time. This
> > time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
> > Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
> > it's running normally.
>
> > Uh-oh.
>
> >--Tony

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[joe]

On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:19 PM, tonycd wrote:

> Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
> the same exact problem.
>
> Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
> partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.) Worked last time. This
> time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
> Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
> it's running normally.
>
> Uh-oh.
>
>--Tony


I'm not sure what computer you have, but if it's a Sawtooth, you  
could try opening the case and plugging the external drive into the  
internal FW port on the motherboard.

You could also try taking the drive itself out of the FW case and  
attaching it to one of the IDE buses.

==
Joe the Juggler
4148 Wyoming St.
St. Louis, MO 63116
(314) 771-3243
http://joethejuggler.com
==




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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[joe]

On Feb 28, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Steve R wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2
> external firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The
> 750 has 3 partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered
> off my computer today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted,
> and 2 of the 3 partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can
> see these unmounted drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>
> What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>
>
> I ran into similar problems with a G3 iMac in OS X. I found that
> rebooting into OS 9 to mount the partitions worked to make them
> visible in OS X.
>
> Steve R


Could be a corrupted disk directory.   Maybe try Disk Warrior?

I keep an external firewire drive to back up my internal drives.   
I've got it partitioned to mimic the internal drives.  For both  
internal and external drives, I rely on Intertech's hi-cap kext.   
That means whenever I need to run Disk Warrior, it's best if I do it  
from the FW drive (rather than the disk) so that I can see all my  
partitions.

==
Joe the Juggler
4148 Wyoming St.
St. Louis, MO 63116
(314) 771-3243
http://joethejuggler.com
==




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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
the same exact problem.

Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.) Worked last time. This
time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
it's running normally.

Uh-oh.

   --Tony


On Feb 28, 7:55 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
 wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W  wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 external
> > firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750 has 3
> > partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my computer
> > today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
> > partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these unmounted
> > drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>
> > What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>
> > __
>
> What file system were they formatted in?
>
> Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
>
> Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
>
> Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may have files
> in startup or shutdown folders?
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Steve R]

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W 
<ken...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 
external firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 
750 has 3 partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered 
off my computer today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, 
and 2 of the 3 partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can 
see these unmounted drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.

What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.


I ran into similar problems with a G3 iMac in OS X. I found that 
rebooting into OS 9 to mount the partitions worked to make them 
visible in OS X.

Steve R

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[James E. Therrault]

I've had firewire external drive problems in the past and the cause was 
the chipsets used in the case.

JT



tonycd wrote:

> Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
> the same exact problem.
> 
> Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
> partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.) Worked last time. This
> time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
> Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
> it's running normally.
> 
> Uh-oh.
> 
>--Tony
> 
> 
> On Feb 28, 7:55 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
>  wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W  wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>
>>>I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 external
>>>firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750 has 3
>>>partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my computer
>>>today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
>>>partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these unmounted
>>>drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>>
>>>What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>>
>>>__
>>
>>What file system were they formatted in?
>>
>>Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
>>
>>Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
>>
>>Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may have files
>>in startup or shutdown folders?
> 

> 
> 


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Kris Tilford]

On Feb 28, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Ken W wrote:

> What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.

I used to boot from Firewire HDs all the time, and occasionally would  
run into a similar issue. The problem was somehow something switched  
the Firewire kext in OS X to some other setting. I remember I looked  
in the System.log when the Firewire was working and it always said  
something like "A400" and "400Mbps" somewhere. When it was broken and  
not mounting the HDs it said "A100" and "100Mbps" instead. I believe  
the solution was to use Onyx, Cocktail, or Applejack to clean the  
caches, etc., and reboot. Then it acted normally again. I don't know  
if this is your problem, but it worked for me when my Firewire drives  
stopped mounting.


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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Ken W]

Hi Wallace, thank you for your help, here's the info:

What file system were they formatted in?
   They are in Journaled HFS+

Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
Yes

Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
  No

Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may have files
in startup or shutdown folders?

No, I started to install Flash 10, but did not get through the process
because this requires OS X 10.4 or greater.  I hope this is helpful.  One
other thing, when I booted up before this problem, the computer got stuck at
the grey apple screen, sat there for over 10 minutes so I had to hard
restart it.


>
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 external
>> firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750 has 3
>> partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my computer
>> today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
>> partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these unmounted
>> drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>>
>> What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>>
>>
>

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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[tonycd]

Pardon me for quasi-hijacking this thread, but I just ran into nearly
the same exact problem.

Only worse: my external FireWire drive isn't seen at all. (3
partitions: a Panther, a Tiger and a Leopard.) Worked last time. This
time, none of the three show up anywhere. Not on the desktop, not in
Disk Utility, not even in Disk Warrior. The physical disk sounds like
it's running normally.

Uh-oh.

   --Tony


On Feb 28, 7:55 pm, "Wallace Adrian D'Alessio"
 wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W  wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 external
> > firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750 has 3
> > partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my computer
> > today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
> > partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these unmounted
> > drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>
> > What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>
> > __
>
> What file system were they formatted in?
>
> Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?
>
> Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?
>
> Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may have files
> in startup or shutdown folders?
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Re: Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Ken W  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 external
> firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750 has 3
> partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my computer
> today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
> partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these unmounted
> drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.
>
> What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.
>
> __


What file system were they formatted in?

Do you shut it down regularly with no similar problem?

Have you mounted them to any other machines recently?

Have you installed any new software or updates recently that may have files
in startup or shutdown folders?

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Firewire hard drives not mounting

[Ken W]

Hi,

I am running a PowerMac G4 dual 450 with OS X 10.3.9.  I have 2 external
firewire hard drives, a LaCie 80 GB and a LaCie 750 GB.  The 750 has 3
partitions.  Everything was working great, but I powered off my computer
today and now when I rebooted the 80 GB is unmounted, and 2 of the 3
partitions on the 750 are unmounted.  Disk Utility can see these unmounted
drives/ partitions, but can not mount them.

What the heck?  I am not that technical with this kind of stuff.

Thanks,
Ken

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