Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Amen to this. You have my full agreement. - Original Message - From: Jeremy Hartley jeremyhart...@comcast.net To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 11:14 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hello All, I have been a member of this list since 2000 or 2001, whenever this list in all of the many forms was begun. I have also been a business owner, a professional musician, and now work as a computer trainer for blind and sighted individuals. As you may guess, since I am on this list, I happen to be totally blind, and have been so for my entire life of 36 years. Like it or not, we as blind and visually impaired individuals, exist in a sighted world. Choke it down. Get used to it, and get over it, and get with it. So, what does this all mean for any of us blind gamers? Plenty! Whether we like it or not, we are viewed differently by the sighted world. Differently? What does that mean. Well, to me, I have seen sighted gamers say things like, well, they can play text games. Or, well, why do the blind even need to play games like us anyway. Ok, that really stings to read such comments, but it is due to an ignorance of most of this sighted world. Yes, I said ignorance. Not stupidity! Too often, people mix up ignorance and stupidity, and call it at that. So, why should we care? I mean, we have our games written by Jim Kitchen, draconis, and other devs who are either visually impaired or realize we are out there, hungry to play games. Taken nothing away from those people, why shouldn't we as people, not blind, not visually impaired people, just people, be taken seriously? Well, we are in some ways, but not in other ways. I have found that in order to be taken seriously by the sighted world, we need to show that we know what we are talking about, enough to capture their interest. Not everyone can get the point across when it comes to interests and what blind and visually impaired people are capable of accomplishing. After all, we all have our interests, pleasures and dislikes. So, what can we do? The answer is simple, if one takes the time to put things into perspective. We all want a lot of the same things, but we go about accomplishing them in the wrong way a lot of times. What it really comes down to, at least for me, is that we really need to step up and give any sighted game dev a picture of what we are asking for. If a map is not read by voiceover on the Iphone, why is that? Have we explored the window with our voiceover cursor? If so, then what can we say to the dev to make sense of our needs. Does text need to be placed on the map? If so, what text, and would it be beneficial to have map coordinates mentioned? Would that be enough? Would it require a whole rewrite of the app to make things right, or would it be OK to have a few additions made to the program? Guess what. For each app/program/game/whatever, it differs, depending on the program in question. You may think we can't make a difference, but I would like to tell you from personal experience, sometimes just a nudge makes a difference. But, what kind of nudge? Sadly, I have to say that when it comes to blind folks, and yes, because I am one, I am a bit partial to blind folks, but blind folks must be one step ahead. So, what do I mean? well, I mean when it comes to explaining what we need, we must be specific. I am sure that many of us have been in the situation where we have been working with a sighted colleague. We say something like, just go to the file menu and go to save as. It is amazing how many sighted computer users don't even know about this simple menu item. But, we have to know each menu item, each choice. We have to know the difference between a combo box, a radio button and a push button. Guess what? If you were to ask most of the sighted computer users what a radio button was, they would look at you with a blank stair. Why should they know? I mean, a button is a button, after all, is what they say. Like it or not, we know there is a difference, and when it comes to developers, we need to make our wants and needs crystal clear. Another issue we face is the fact that some of the messages sighted devs get from us, well, they aren't the most well written messages. I truly think that if we are going to present ourselves as a community to be taken seriously, we must double and triple check what we put on the web, and how we present ourselves. Now, this has a lot to do with what I am about to say, so please do not think I am picking on any one person. Let's take something simple like audiogames.net. My apologies to the mods of audiogames.net, but I have to say that if a sighted dev went to that site for the first time, they would have to think twice. Just as one example, the word puzzle is spelled with two z's and not one. Something so small can make or break what someone new sees and
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi I agree with you all 100%. Happy holidays from the United States! Alfredo --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Michael, just speaking as someone who's dealt with developers over access issues for a long time, it's not a matter of speaking your mind or rights, and if you think in those terms you'll not be making friends I'm afraid. Remember, that you are essentially asking! a person to do a lot of extra work. Therefore you need to be as polite and streight forward as possible, and also know enough about the game and about access to precisely suggest what should! be changed, then work with the developer on tests. I'm afraid it's not simply a matter of shouting about your opinions, you need to both compromise and make things clear. Myself, i'd not give an application a bad review for access reasons. If it were not accessible and the developer was unwilling to make changes, I'd just shrug my shoulders and move on. All getting irritated will do is give the Vi gaming community a bad name. Reviews are afterall for people to find out about the application who might not have tried it, rather than a platform for praise and blame, and therefore should list both good and bad points that you believe an ap contains rather than just be flaming. Besides, most people will dismiss universally negative reviews as simply someone with a grudge anyway. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Joseph. Yes that is my right as a american to speek my mind. After thinking about what I was just a little bit of demanding. However I totaly agree with you. But just to show the developer that I would like him to work on the accessibility of the app I went ahead and gave it a five star. However if the accessibility does not get improve I will give it a lower score. You know awhile back when I contacted the developers of Freeverse game skee-ball I was very nice and when they had respond back to me they had a nasty atitude towards me. Even though they had a nasty atitude towards me I still explain how blind gamers would play their game and they basically said they didn't care. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I Agree completely allison. I must confess I'm a litle surprised to find Michael was in the states, sinse I assumed English was not his first language, and thus didn't comment upon his writing specifically. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Ian, there are occasions when a spellcheck is your friend. I tend to be too lazy to check every message I write, and just go on the basis if Hal says it right, it likely is. but if it is an important message such as one regarding access, I'll write it in ms word or wordpad then run a spellcheck over it. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi, i am the same and i admit it. I use to be a member of an email roleplay simming group but i ended up having to leave due to the fact i can't spell well inuff and although i know where punctuation is suppose to go i don't really use it. That is why in the past on this list i've had problems with people because of my lack of grammer and spelling. I am a bad speller but am trying to immproove that is why i do not email these game developers because i know my spelling and grammer is bad and although i would be plite in the way i right the email due to the way i right the developer would probly thing me rood due to the presantation of my email. I am trying to immproove on this one of the things i have done is slow my typing speed down delibratly to a speed that makes me realise what keys i'm pressing and if i know there is an erra and i know the correct spelling or letter needed i can quickly go and correct it with out having to comb threw the whole email looking for them. Using the Iphone is a grate help to this due to having to type slower on the on screen keyboard yes it does take longer on there to right what you want to right but i have found i am more accurate with it. When righting to a developer correct spelling and grammer is pritty important as they need to understand exactly what someone is saying. if you have sighted assistance and you have doubts that the spell checker has picked up on all your errers it might be worth getting them to glance at it and help you correct them. i reecently rerote my cv and sent it to a sighted friend who cleaned it up and made all the necessary corrections and formatting for me. I am trying to immproove my righting as i enjoy righting stories creativly and also i like email roleplay simming games i'm currently trying to find a few to join but there does not seem to be a lot of active ones around if any one knows of any i'd be grateful to know about them i know there's star treck the first era but i was a member of that before and sstruggled there. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Your post is a very good example of what what some of us have tried so hard to get across to other gamers, and I really appreciate it! Thank you very much! Another problem that comes up when blind people try to get game developers to take us seriously is that we must not hound the developer to death with impatient and continuous demands, expecting and demanding immediate action on their part. These people aren't just sitting around twiddling their proverbial thumbs waiting for someone to give them more work to do as far as game development. They have projects in the works, they have other issues going on in their work and personal lives, and we, like everyone else, must give them time, and we, like everyone else, must be willing to cooperate with them if we expect them to even consider cooperating with us. Be a whiny baby, and you'll be treated as such, or you will just be ignored. Problem is, the developer just might, unfortunately, believe that all blind people are the same kind of a whiny demanding little baby, and not take any other blind person seriously, either, based of their past experiences with blind gamers.. We also need to give them constructive criticism, nicely, in order to get the job done. Don't just tell them that it doesn't work, or that this is a lousy game. What doesn't work? Do you have ideas on how to make it work? If it is lousy, how could it be made better? Or, just maybe, it's not the game for you, even if it does operate as it should. After all, I'm not going to buy an RPG if I'm not interested in one, nor would I be working to get a game developer to make an RPG work for me unless I want to get into that kind of a game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Jeremy Hartley jeremyhart...@comcast.net To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 1:14 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hello All, I have been a member of this list since 2000 or 2001, whenever this list in all of the many forms was begun. I have also been a business owner, a professional musician, and now work as a computer trainer for blind and sighted individuals. As you may guess, since I am on this list, I happen to be totally blind, and have been so for my entire life of 36 years. Like it or not, we as blind and visually impaired individuals, exist in a sighted world. Choke it down. Get used to it, and get over it, and get with it. So, what does this all mean for any of us blind gamers? Plenty! Whether we like it or not, we are viewed differently by the sighted world. Differently? What does that mean. Well, to me, I have seen sighted gamers say things like, well, they can play text games. Or, well, why do the blind even need to play games like us anyway. Ok, that really stings to read such comments, but it is due to an ignorance of most of this sighted world. Yes, I said ignorance. Not stupidity! Too often, people mix up ignorance and stupidity, and call it at that. So, why should we care? I mean, we have our games written by Jim Kitchen, draconis, and other devs who are either visually impaired or realize we are out there, hungry to play games. Taken nothing away from those people, why shouldn't we as people, not blind, not visually impaired people, just people, be taken seriously? Well, we are in some ways, but not in other ways. I have found that in order to be taken seriously by the sighted world, we need to show that we know what we are talking about, enough to capture their interest. Not everyone can get the point across when it comes to interests and what blind and visually impaired people are capable of accomplishing. After all, we all have our interests, pleasures and dislikes. So, what can we do? The answer is simple, if one takes the time to put things into perspective. We all want a lot of the same things, but we go about accomplishing them in the wrong way a lot of times. What it really comes down to, at least for me, is that we really need to step up and give any sighted game dev a picture of what we are asking for. If a map is not read by voiceover on the Iphone, why is that? Have we explored the window with our voiceover cursor? If so, then what can we say to the dev to make sense of our needs. Does text need to be placed on the map? If so, what text, and would it be beneficial to have map coordinates mentioned? Would that be enough? Would it require a whole rewrite of the app to make things right, or would it be OK to have a few additions made to the program? Guess what. For each app/program/game/whatever, it differs, depending on the program in question. You may think we can't make a difference, but I would like to tell you from personal experience, sometimes just a nudge makes a difference. But, what kind of nudge? Sadly, I have to say that when it comes to blind folks, and
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi I agree fully, what was said should be taken in the spirit it was written. As a person or part of a community we should always strive to make the best possible first impression when contacting a dev about adding in any accessibility features with their project. Their not obligated to provide it, so handle with care like it says on fragile packages in the mail. Ron - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi Joseph, I don't believe Allison was trying to be little Miss Perfect, and her message wasn't bashing Michael in any way, shape, or form. Her message was well written, explanitory, and offered some well thought out constructive criticism where Michael's messages could improve. Constructive criticism isn't bashing, and it is helpful to be able to recognize the difference. Cheers! On 12/16/11, Joseph Weaver jweaver1...@gmail.com wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Can I laugh here now? This is getting to be a joke! Back to gaming while Mike finds some social skills. At 11:56 PM 12/16/2011, you wrote: Hey, Allis. Well first of all when I was in contact with the person who help me create De Steno Games he was very happy to work with me. I just asked him once and he was excited to do it. I was not repeating myself in the message I was just trying to show him that I know what I am talking about when it comes to accessibility. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] 2 days to go!
hi 2 days then we get zero sight. going spend first few weeks seing what people really think of the game first. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 2 days to go!
What is the 0-site? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 2 days to go!
How much it will coast this game? Cheers, Jorge Gonçalves jopo...@hotmail.com Skype: joport3 Twitter: www.twitter.com/goncalvesjorge Webpage: www.jorgegoncalves.com On 12/17/2011 1:33 PM, william lomas wrote: hi 2 days then we get zero sight. going spend first few weeks seing what people really think of the game first. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 2 days to go!
It is a flight simulation game which is going to be releced on monday by a company called shard workshops. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 2 days to go!
Hi i don't think that has been told to us yet at least i've never seen a price advertised. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
sadly when you get an account on samnet you can't change the signature. will make a suggestion to serotek about that since i also have that but don't use it for lists such as this. On Dec 16, 2011, at 3:33 PM, Bryan Peterson wrote: Besides, even if he's a hundred percent passionate about incorporating accessibility into the game, he can't very well work on that if he's got to constantly answer emails from us. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: alex wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi. from reading the message that you were sent Michael, it sounds like that the guys issue is not that he has stopped supporting accessibility, he wants two things, firstly he wants you to leave him alone about accessibility, as quite rightly he doesn't want accessibility to take over game development at the expense of other features. and also he doesn't like your signature advertising the system access network. I think part of the issue could also be down to communication problems, as correct me if I am wrong, but Michael, your grasp of English does seem a bit shaky some times, so perhaps also you misinterpreted the message you were sent. I have to say, I also agree your signature constantly advertising system access is annoying. So I think you should reply, and say thanks for the e mail, and also appologise for your spam signature which I think you should get rid of, from e mails and forum posts. You should also get rid of it before replying to the games author. You should reply to him though, so he knows you are still happy to talk to him if, he needs you, but this is important, after replying to his message. Leave! the! guy! alone.! you should make it clear that you would still like to give input on accessibility if he wants you to. You should remove the signature before replying, as if you leave it, it will be like you totally ignored his message and didn't listen to him. I have also noticed, that you do seem to become obsessed with games very easily, so for example the de steno games, and now this. There is nothing wrong with a hobby, but also you shouldn't nag people about accessibility constantly. These are just my thoughts, I hope they don't upset you or anyone. Alex. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children
Hi, I received a message from a friend asking if there are any accessible games for children that can be played online. She has a 4-year-old son who's interested in playing games on the computer. Any suggestions? Thanks. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia Show Host and Production Director The Global Voice Internet Radio www.theglobalvoice.info Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net Business Website: www.kjsproductions.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children
well I know that http://www.vipgameszone.com has a kids section where you can get free games that talk and allow online score posting HTH - Original Message - From: Kelly Sapergia ksaper...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:49 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children Hi, I received a message from a friend asking if there are any accessible games for children that can be played online. She has a 4-year-old son who's interested in playing games on the computer. Any suggestions? Thanks. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia Show Host and Production Director The Global Voice Internet Radio www.theglobalvoice.info Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net Business Website: www.kjsproductions.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
I agree. I'll be the first to admit I've probably more than occasionally shot off such messages but I like to think I generally at least try to proofread beforehand because I'd much rather be understood than do the convenient thing and have someone go what? because my message wasn't understood. It's why, as I said in another topic, I absolutely refuse to use internet shorthand even while texting. And as a contributor to the Game FAQs web site it always set my teeth on edge when I'd get an Email that said something like Plz help me w Lufia. i cant kill the boss. Thx 4 your time. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Personally, I think that proofreading should be in the guidelines to improve clarity. Those who are offended by it are the ones that have the problem. It's not up to the reader to figure out what is being said, it's up to the author to accurately convey it. If English isn't your native language, that's understandable. If it is, use it correctly, or get software from the Net that helps, and use it. If you don't want to show yourself as a person who wants to be taken seriously about your gaming experience, go elsewhere. Sounds harsh and blunt, but it's realistic. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children
I don't think those are online games, though. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: joseph weakland josephweakl...@att.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children well I know that http://www.vipgameszone.com has a kids section where you can get free games that talk and allow online score posting HTH - Original Message - From: Kelly Sapergia ksaper...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:49 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children Hi, I received a message from a friend asking if there are any accessible games for children that can be played online. She has a 4-year-old son who's interested in playing games on the computer. Any suggestions? Thanks. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia Show Host and Production Director The Global Voice Internet Radio www.theglobalvoice.info Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net Business Website: www.kjsproductions.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Everyone, Thomas is totally correct below; as a sighted person, my first impression several years ago of this list was not good, and it was directly related to grammar, punctuation, and spelling problems in postings. I understand that readers don't always read out certain types of mistakes and that there's going to be different strengths and weaknesses in the writing styles of the blind, but I'm still sometimes shocked by the lack of proofreading. The fact of the matter is that how you write matters almost as much as what you write, and that sighted people judge messages based on the overall 'look' of a message in addition to the content. Correct grammar, spelling, capitalization, and punctuation are a critical part of that look, and can make or break your message. It may take all of two seconds for a sighted person to scan your message, decide there are too many problems, and delete it - without ever even realizing that you're blind or intelligent. Never forget that. Another polite thing to do for the sighted is breaks between paragraphs as Thomas has done below. This is pretty easy - just start a new paragraph after two to four sentences. It's important for sighted people because we have to manually scan the text with our eyes to read it; there's no reader to keep track of where we're at in the message. If a block is too big without breaks, it becomes easy to lose your place, and most of the time I'll just skip the rest of the block and go on to the next one rather than try to figure out where I got confused. Just FYI, from a sighted developer. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Jeremy Hartley wrote an excellent post on the way that sighted people view blind gamers and what blind gamers need to do to interact with game developers. I know that I, as a sighted person, have learned a great deal from the people on this forum. I joined this forum and others to improve the games we produce and to find out what information is needed to improve access to games. That is the reason we, working with Dark, put together the information about how to work with the game development community found on www.blindcomputergames.com. I have tried to be an advocate in the accessibility community for changes in software that improve blind access. Unfair as it may seem, most sighted people will see spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors as a sign of ignorance. I do understand that without visual reinforcement it is more difficult to remember the spelling of words. That prompted me to develop our Sounds Like game that uses a sound-alike word in a sentence to help reinforce the difference between words like (pair-two) and (pear-fruit). Jeremy says accurately that in order to be taken seriously by the sighted world, we need to show that we know what we are talking about, enough to capture their interest. Unfortunately that includes being careful in communication with sighted people to spell check and be sure the sentences say specifically what you mean. We here at 7-128 Software try to make our games accessible, but most game developers know nothing about accessibility and, unless they have family, friends or an interest in the blind community, don't even realize that people who are blind play computer games. I did a session about what is needed to make a website or game application accessible to blind gamers at an unconference in Boston early this fall. The majority of the attendees knew nothing about accessibility and were surprised that it was possible to make games accessible. So, expect that you are dealing with people who know nothing about your capabilities and what improvements in their games would make it accessible for you. That being said, I do see progress happening. And we will be looking at what has happened over the last year as we update our top 25 websites for gamers who are blind. I would value any suggestions as to websites that are not in our top 25 that deserve consideration. Have a great holiday season. Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children
Kelly asked if there were any online accessible games for young children. I don't know about online games, but we do have our PizzaGames that are accessible and geared to pre-school youngsters. If a download game is of interest have her check out our PizzaGames at www.7128.com. Eleanor Robinson 7-128.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
I could drink to that LOL. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Personally, I think that proofreading should be in the guidelines to improve clarity. Those who are offended by it are the ones that have the problem. It's not up to the reader to figure out what is being said, it's up to the author to accurately convey it. If English isn't your native language, that's understandable. If it is, use it correctly, or get software from the Net that helps, and use it. If you don't want to show yourself as a person who wants to be taken seriously about your gaming experience, go elsewhere. Sounds harsh and blunt, but it's realistic. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a bit more soul calibur info
Soul Calibur is as accessible as any other mainstream game, it's for the ps3, and it is not free. Accessible by this definition means having to learn menus, but the gameplay itself is accessible. - Original Message - From: Connor Moser connor.mo...@aon.at To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a bit more soul calibur info just to ask. what is soul calibur. is it axesable? is it for the pc? is it free? - Original Message - From: gamers-requ...@audyssey.org To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:23 AM Subject: Gamers Digest, Vol 70, Issue 125 Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers@audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-requ...@audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-ow...@audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Gamers digest... Today's Topics: 1. a bit more soul calibur info (Clement Chou) 2. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 3. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 4. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 5. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Dallas O'Brien) 6. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Dallas O'Brien) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:41:57 -0800 From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: brandonsl...@freelists.org, Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] a bit more soul calibur info Message-ID: 6E713B7FC438444F881C90CBEE2F8CD2@setbc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 No vids this time, just some facts that some people may not have about the gameplay system. The three biggest things to point out are probably, the just guard, brave edge, and critical edge. Just guard is basically a perry maneuver. When you tap the guard button and let it go, you'll have a few frames during which if an opponent hits you with an attack, you will automatically perry their attack and will be able to punish them while they're recoverying. Brave edge is basically a powered up version of a normal move. If you compare the SF games with this, the SF games have special and ex-specials. In SC, you don't really have special moves... instead you have a series of normal attacks that can be increased in power and have certain properties. A critical edge is the SC equivalent to a super move. The command for the critical edge is the same for everyone, but unlike 2d games you can't just throw them out and hope they connect... you have to combo into them. Because if you perform one and miss, you're in big, big trouble. Aside from these three things, the rest of the gameplay is more or less the same, just without the critical finisher, and the speed is faster. Hope this little snippet was somewhat informative! -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:45:20 -0500 From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Message-ID: caafbg10jcwaovqpxnty_5dmvrkqs-hqyclv4nqda1sr5bte...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Well, that's where Ebay and places like that come in handy. I've seen old Pentium 133 computers with Windows 95 on them for like $15. You could purchase the computer or find someone on there selling Windows 95 separately on the cheep and install it in a virtual machine. That's really the only solution for hanging on to software that is that old. Cheers! On 12/12/11, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Yea... But what do you do about the classic games? Surely, there are still many people in the world who want to use the old games. But running an outdated operating system like Windows 95 or older on modern PCs isn't an option when the os doesn't get along with your hardware due to a lack of drivers... And you might want to use a virtual machine, but then is the question where to get that old operating system you need legally. Good if you still have installation media, but what if not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:56:46 -0500 From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list
Re: [Audyssey] a bit more soul calibur info
ah, you poor guy! you don't know what soul calibur is? Although i haven't played it yet... :( anyways, its a fighting game for consoles, 2 and 3 are for ps2 xbox and gamecube i think, 4 and eventually 5 are for ps3 and xbox360 i believe. On 12/13/11, Connor Moser connor.mo...@aon.at wrote: just to ask. what is soul calibur. is it axesable? is it for the pc? is it free? - Original Message - From: gamers-requ...@audyssey.org To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:23 AM Subject: Gamers Digest, Vol 70, Issue 125 Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers@audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-requ...@audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-ow...@audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Gamers digest... Today's Topics: 1. a bit more soul calibur info (Clement Chou) 2. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 3. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 4. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 5. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Dallas O'Brien) 6. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Dallas O'Brien) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:41:57 -0800 From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: brandonsl...@freelists.org, Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] a bit more soul calibur info Message-ID: 6E713B7FC438444F881C90CBEE2F8CD2@setbc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 No vids this time, just some facts that some people may not have about the gameplay system. The three biggest things to point out are probably, the just guard, brave edge, and critical edge. Just guard is basically a perry maneuver. When you tap the guard button and let it go, you'll have a few frames during which if an opponent hits you with an attack, you will automatically perry their attack and will be able to punish them while they're recoverying. Brave edge is basically a powered up version of a normal move. If you compare the SF games with this, the SF games have special and ex-specials. In SC, you don't really have special moves... instead you have a series of normal attacks that can be increased in power and have certain properties. A critical edge is the SC equivalent to a super move. The command for the critical edge is the same for everyone, but unlike 2d games you can't just throw them out and hope they connect... you have to combo into them. Because if you perform one and miss, you're in big, big trouble. Aside from these three things, the rest of the gameplay is more or less the same, just without the critical finisher, and the speed is faster. Hope this little snippet was somewhat informative! -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:45:20 -0500 From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Message-ID: caafbg10jcwaovqpxnty_5dmvrkqs-hqyclv4nqda1sr5bte...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Well, that's where Ebay and places like that come in handy. I've seen old Pentium 133 computers with Windows 95 on them for like $15. You could purchase the computer or find someone on there selling Windows 95 separately on the cheep and install it in a virtual machine. That's really the only solution for hanging on to software that is that old. Cheers! On 12/12/11, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Yea... But what do you do about the classic games? Surely, there are still many people in the world who want to use the old games. But running an outdated operating system like Windows 95 or older on modern PCs isn't an option when the os doesn't get along with your hardware due to a lack of drivers... And you might want to use a virtual machine, but then is the question where to get that old operating system you need legally. Good if you still have installation media, but what if not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:56:46 -0500 From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] Swamp: brainstorming ideas for expansion andplayer limiting.
Right, here are my thoughts. Players already group together to help each other. A few days ago I ran out of ammunition, and a helpful player gave me coordinates to a few pile of loot. Yesterday, I noticed that there was a massive swarm of zombies near the bridge, and rather than fight my way through the group of five zombies blocking my way to the safe zone, I used up the rest of my ammo to hold the bridge. Luckily for me, somebody cleared my way to the zone, but if they hadn't, my character wouldn't have made it back. These are only a couple examples, I've scene people working together all over. On the subject of the guard, removing him would be a really, really bad idea. For starters, he lets people regroup in a zombie-free area. If he's gone, there is no way for people to defend themselves if the server is not full of players. Also, if a zombie gets in the zone, there is no way to kill it. - Original Message - From: Christopher Bartlett themusicalbre...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:35:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Swamp: brainstorming ideas for expansion andplayer limiting. Your idea of one skill point per level (or more, depending on how many levels for each skill and how many skills there are is simpler than what I had suggested, so I'd support using your plan instead of mine. One reason I suggested the safe zone idea is that there is currently no incentive for working together, no sense that the survivors should be working together for a common goal. Since the number of zombies is relatively stable, kill one and one pops up somewhere else, there's no way to deplete the enemies with a concerted attack. We aren't working towards anything other than our own advancement. I'd like to see the game head in a direction where players are forced to work for something other than their own good, where sacrifice might even make sense for the survivor community as a whole. A safe zone restricted to what loot is donated would be a step towards this idea. Another step would be to change the spawning model to a certain number of zombies spawned per unit time, regardless of the number already in play. There may be times when life gets difficult as the zombie density increases beyond safe limits, at which point some concerted attacks will need to be brought to bear to lower the population. The safe zone guard should be removed, so that keeping the approaches to the fortress open becomes a player responsibility. (of course the zone has to be sacrosanct, zombies should never appear in the zone, though if they wander in, that's another issue to be dealt with by the players. I know that we have missions to look forward to, and I am, but I don't see them addressing this question of group good vs. individual achievement. Unless there is a mechanical tie-in, i.e. something goes terribly wrong for everybody if a given mission isn't accomplished in a certain amount of time, then it's just another bug hunt, a fascinating one I will enjoy, but it's not high stakes except individually. If others would enjoy having this aspect of play come into being, I'd be interested in ideas for how to mechanically make it happen. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dakotah Rickard Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:49 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Swamp: brainstorming ideas for expansion and player limiting. I agree with everything except the safe zone being finite. In a realistic situation, it would be, and I get that. It would also mean that people donating becomes more mandatory, but the trouble is that we have people who go play for a while and stop, taking stuff from the safe zone to start out and never giving back, and then we have people who play for days on end and use pretty much all the ammo they collect. I'd rather leave the safe zone alone, though I do like the idea of ready weapons versus carried weapons. As for specializations, I think that each level should allow a skill point, rather like the skillpoints in most RPG type games. Yeah, eventually you get someone who has played enough to get every skill maxed out, but that's going to happen in most games. A wide variety of skills would be pretty awesome. Also, the number of levels in a skill could be decided on and could be pretty high, meaning that even if you have, like, level 35, you still aren't at maximum. For example: Quiet movement: which lowers your detection rate. The different categories of weapons, either light, medium, and heavy or pistols, rifles, shotguns, light automatics, medium automatics, and heavy automatics as well as melee, grenades and such, medkit boosts. There's possibility there for about ten different skills, plus you might be able to do skills for accuracy boosts and damage
Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough
i know. I'm very bad. I guess i didn't have time to. But now it's Christmas. so I able to play more. Tommy - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough What! You're telling me you've had this game for years, and never completed it? Wow... how can people do this? If I get a game I'm really interested in, I must complete it in a few days at most, whatever it takes. sometimes I'm a total completionist to boot. I just can't stand doing things half way. lol. here are the commands including the cheerleader ones. report 4 cheerleader part right, chu left, chu right, left, hey left, right, hey left, right, hey right, left, hey left, hey right, hey left, chu, chu right, chu, chu up, up, hey report 5 moves: up, down, up, down, chu left, left, right, right, chu up, down, left, right, chu up, down, up, down, up, down, chu up, down, up, down, down, up, chu up, down, down, down, up, up, chu right, right, right, left, left, left, left, right, right, right, chu down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, chu up, up, up, right, down, down, down, left, left, right, chu up, right, left, down, up, right, left, down, down, up, chu guessing game: up, chu, chu, chu, chu, hey up, chu, chu, hey, chu, chu up, chu, chu, chu, hey, chu, up, hey, chu, chu, chu, chu up, chu, hey, chu, chu, chu up, chu, chu, chu, chu, hey up, chu, hey, chu, chu, chu up, chu, chu, chu, hey, chu up, chu, chu, hey, chu, chu up, chu, chu, chu, chu, hey report 4 second world: cheerleader part right, chu left, chu left, right, hey right, left, hey right, left, hey left, right, hey left, hey right, hey left, chu, chu right, chu, chu up, up, hey second world, report 5 moves: up, down, up, down, chu left, left, right, right, chu up, right, left, down, chu right, left, right,, left, right, left, chu right, left, right, left, left, right, chu right, left, left, left, right, right, chu up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, chu down, down, down, up, down, down, down, up, up, up, chu right, right, right, down, left, left, left, up, left, right, chu up, right, left, down, up, right, left, right, down, up, chu - Original Message - From: Tommy to...@sirinet.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough Yes! I have the game. The special Eddition. Tommy - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough Um... do you even have the game yourself? never seen you post about it before. - Original Message - From: Tommy to...@sirinet.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough Can u give me inaccessible commands? Tommy - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough unlocking some of the trophies in particular can be extremely frustrating. I don't know if you noticed the secret notes? check cheerleader part for a ton of the things. those are going to give you some problems. the ones on the Stay tuned! parts are extremely annoying, and are usually right at the end of a checkpoint, so you have to start the whole section over if you miss them. and some of those checkpoints are reeally long! then you also have to worry about getting all the commands perfectly. it can all be done quite accessibly if you put in the time though. If you guys need a list of tough or inaccessible commands let me know and I'll provide that info. - Original Message - From: Tommy to...@sirinet.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough I didn't finish unlock all the stuff yet. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough That was a nice playthrough... I haven't beaten it myself yet so I stopped at report 5 to avoid spoilers. But nice one all the same! I wish they had more variations in the pattern though... it's such a small game, and one that had so much potential. - Original Message - From: Sarah Haake ti...@gmx.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi,
Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough
I have the ps3 version... and only got it recently. lol I don't have the original one for the ps2. I just got it in a time when a lot of games were coming out I wanted to play. Gundam extreme vs, KOF xiii, and the new assassin's creed just to name a few. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough What! You're telling me you've had this game for years, and never completed it? Wow... how can people do this? If I get a game I'm really interested in, I must complete it in a few days at most, whatever it takes. sometimes I'm a total completionist to boot. I just can't stand doing things half way. lol. here are the commands including the cheerleader ones. report 4 cheerleader part right, chu left, chu right, left, hey left, right, hey left, right, hey right, left, hey left, hey right, hey left, chu, chu right, chu, chu up, up, hey report 5 moves: up, down, up, down, chu left, left, right, right, chu up, down, left, right, chu up, down, up, down, up, down, chu up, down, up, down, down, up, chu up, down, down, down, up, up, chu right, right, right, left, left, left, left, right, right, right, chu down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, chu up, up, up, right, down, down, down, left, left, right, chu up, right, left, down, up, right, left, down, down, up, chu guessing game: up, chu, chu, chu, chu, hey up, chu, chu, hey, chu, chu up, chu, chu, chu, hey, chu, up, hey, chu, chu, chu, chu up, chu, hey, chu, chu, chu up, chu, chu, chu, chu, hey up, chu, hey, chu, chu, chu up, chu, chu, chu, hey, chu up, chu, chu, hey, chu, chu up, chu, chu, chu, chu, hey report 4 second world: cheerleader part right, chu left, chu left, right, hey right, left, hey right, left, hey left, right, hey left, hey right, hey left, chu, chu right, chu, chu up, up, hey second world, report 5 moves: up, down, up, down, chu left, left, right, right, chu up, right, left, down, chu right, left, right,, left, right, left, chu right, left, right, left, left, right, chu right, left, left, left, right, right, chu up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, chu down, down, down, up, down, down, down, up, up, up, chu right, right, right, down, left, left, left, up, left, right, chu up, right, left, down, up, right, left, right, down, up, chu - Original Message - From: Tommy to...@sirinet.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough Yes! I have the game. The special Eddition. Tommy - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough Um... do you even have the game yourself? never seen you post about it before. - Original Message - From: Tommy to...@sirinet.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough Can u give me inaccessible commands? Tommy - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough unlocking some of the trophies in particular can be extremely frustrating. I don't know if you noticed the secret notes? check cheerleader part for a ton of the things. those are going to give you some problems. the ones on the Stay tuned! parts are extremely annoying, and are usually right at the end of a checkpoint, so you have to start the whole section over if you miss them. and some of those checkpoints are reeally long! then you also have to worry about getting all the commands perfectly. it can all be done quite accessibly if you put in the time though. If you guys need a list of tough or inaccessible commands let me know and I'll provide that info. - Original Message - From: Tommy to...@sirinet.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough I didn't finish unlock all the stuff yet. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To Yohandi, your space channel 5 playthrough That was a nice playthrough... I haven't beaten it myself yet so I stopped at report 5 to avoid spoilers. But nice one all the same! I wish they had more variations in the pattern though... it's such a small game, and one that had so much potential. - Original Message - From: Sarah
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
I'll also agree that the post was well thought out and written. It made good points about how the perception in an email can convey a great deal as to the tact or angle a person is coming from. Some of you may remember that online game 'Starbase Challenge' I think it was. I played that for quite some time years back. I helped the developer with making the map useable for blind/vi gamers. As I recall I sent an email explaining my situation, gave credit as 90% of the game was working fine with screen reading programs told him I had an idea or two about the galaxy map and if he was interested in hearing them to write back. I only sent one email, then left it up to the dev to contact me. Accessibility isn't something we have a right to, but with co-operative efforts diplomacy and some luck these ends can be achieved. Ron - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Your post is a very good example of what what some of us have tried so hard to get across to other gamers, and I really appreciate it! Thank you very much! Another problem that comes up when blind people try to get game developers to take us seriously is that we must not hound the developer to death with impatient and continuous demands, expecting and demanding immediate action on their part. These people aren't just sitting around twiddling their proverbial thumbs waiting for someone to give them more work to do as far as game development. They have projects in the works, they have other issues going on in their work and personal lives, and we, like everyone else, must give them time, and we, like everyone else, must be willing to cooperate with them if we expect them to even consider cooperating with us. Be a whiny baby, and you'll be treated as such, or you will just be ignored. Problem is, the developer just might, unfortunately, believe that all blind people are the same kind of a whiny demanding little baby, and not take any other blind person seriously, either, based of their past experiences with blind gamers.. We also need to give them constructive criticism, nicely, in order to get the job done. Don't just tell them that it doesn't work, or that this is a lousy game. What doesn't work? Do you have ideas on how to make it work? If it is lousy, how could it be made better? Or, just maybe, it's not the game for you, even if it does operate as it should. After all, I'm not going to buy an RPG if I'm not interested in one, nor would I be working to get a game developer to make an RPG work for me unless I want to get into that kind of a game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Jeremy Hartley jeremyhart...@comcast.net To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 1:14 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hello All, I have been a member of this list since 2000 or 2001, whenever this list in all of the many forms was begun. I have also been a business owner, a professional musician, and now work as a computer trainer for blind and sighted individuals. As you may guess, since I am on this list, I happen to be totally blind, and have been so for my entire life of 36 years. Like it or not, we as blind and visually impaired individuals, exist in a sighted world. Choke it down. Get used to it, and get over it, and get with it. So, what does this all mean for any of us blind gamers? Plenty! Whether we like it or not, we are viewed differently by the sighted world. Differently? What does that mean. Well, to me, I have seen sighted gamers say things like, well, they can play text games. Or, well, why do the blind even need to play games like us anyway. Ok, that really stings to read such comments, but it is due to an ignorance of most of this sighted world. Yes, I said ignorance. Not stupidity! Too often, people mix up ignorance and stupidity, and call it at that. So, why should we care? I mean, we have our games written by Jim Kitchen, draconis, and other devs who are either visually impaired or realize we are out there, hungry to play games. Taken nothing away from those people, why shouldn't we as people, not blind, not visually impaired people, just people, be taken seriously? Well, we are in some ways, but not in other ways. I have found that in order to be taken seriously by the sighted world, we need to show that we know what we are talking about, enough to capture their interest. Not everyone can get the point across when it comes to interests and what blind and visually impaired people are capable of accomplishing. After all, we all have our interests, pleasures and dislikes. So, what can we do? The answer is simple, if one takes the time to put things into
Re: [Audyssey] a bit more soul calibur info
Hi. The Soul Calibur series is a series of weapon based fighting games that have been released on various gaming consoles over the last few years. I only have direct experience with SC2 and SC4. I first had SC2 for my playstation 2 and I currently have SC4 for my Playstation 3 and I definitely intend to get SC5 when it comes out. As with the other mainstream games that we are able to play, these games are not accessible in the strict sense of the word, menus do not talk so it is necessary to either memorize them or write them down, also some parts of the games are more playable for us than others. You have to be patient and willing to invest a fair amount of time and effort into these games to learn to play them successfully but in my opinion it is definitely worth it in the long run. Hope this helps. Game on. Tom On Dec 13, 2011, at 6:51 AM, Connor Moser wrote: just to ask. what is soul calibur. is it axesable? is it for the pc? is it free? - Original Message - From: gamers-requ...@audyssey.org To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:23 AM Subject: Gamers Digest, Vol 70, Issue 125 Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers@audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-requ...@audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-ow...@audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Gamers digest... Today's Topics: 1. a bit more soul calibur info (Clement Chou) 2. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 3. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 4. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Thomas Ward) 5. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Dallas O'Brien) 6. Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf (Dallas O'Brien) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:41:57 -0800 From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: brandonsl...@freelists.org, Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] a bit more soul calibur info Message-ID: 6E713B7FC438444F881C90CBEE2F8CD2@setbc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 No vids this time, just some facts that some people may not have about the gameplay system. The three biggest things to point out are probably, the just guard, brave edge, and critical edge. Just guard is basically a perry maneuver. When you tap the guard button and let it go, you'll have a few frames during which if an opponent hits you with an attack, you will automatically perry their attack and will be able to punish them while they're recoverying. Brave edge is basically a powered up version of a normal move. If you compare the SF games with this, the SF games have special and ex-specials. In SC, you don't really have special moves... instead you have a series of normal attacks that can be increased in power and have certain properties. A critical edge is the SC equivalent to a super move. The command for the critical edge is the same for everyone, but unlike 2d games you can't just throw them out and hope they connect... you have to combo into them. Because if you perform one and miss, you're in big, big trouble. Aside from these three things, the rest of the gameplay is more or less the same, just without the critical finisher, and the speed is faster. Hope this little snippet was somewhat informative! -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:45:20 -0500 From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Message-ID: caafbg10jcwaovqpxnty_5dmvrkqs-hqyclv4nqda1sr5bte...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Well, that's where Ebay and places like that come in handy. I've seen old Pentium 133 computers with Windows 95 on them for like $15. You could purchase the computer or find someone on there selling Windows 95 separately on the cheep and install it in a virtual machine. That's really the only solution for hanging on to software that is that old. Cheers! On 12/12/11, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Yea... But what do you do about the classic games? Surely, there are still many people in the world who want to use the old games. But running an outdated operating system like Windows 95 or older on modern PCs isn't an option when the os doesn't get along with your hardware due to a lack of drivers... And you might want to use a virtual machine, but then is the question where to get that old operating system you need legally. Good if you still have installation media, but what if not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi, Oh, we all agree. But when it comes to efferts... Well... Why should I do this? Why not someone else? And that is the main problem in fact. Best regards, Milos Przic msn: milos.pr...@gmail.com skype: Milosh-hs - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Your post is a very good example of what what some of us have tried so hard to get across to other gamers, and I really appreciate it! Thank you very much! Another problem that comes up when blind people try to get game developers to take us seriously is that we must not hound the developer to death with impatient and continuous demands, expecting and demanding immediate action on their part. These people aren't just sitting around twiddling their proverbial thumbs waiting for someone to give them more work to do as far as game development. They have projects in the works, they have other issues going on in their work and personal lives, and we, like everyone else, must give them time, and we, like everyone else, must be willing to cooperate with them if we expect them to even consider cooperating with us. Be a whiny baby, and you'll be treated as such, or you will just be ignored. Problem is, the developer just might, unfortunately, believe that all blind people are the same kind of a whiny demanding little baby, and not take any other blind person seriously, either, based of their past experiences with blind gamers.. We also need to give them constructive criticism, nicely, in order to get the job done. Don't just tell them that it doesn't work, or that this is a lousy game. What doesn't work? Do you have ideas on how to make it work? If it is lousy, how could it be made better? Or, just maybe, it's not the game for you, even if it does operate as it should. After all, I'm not going to buy an RPG if I'm not interested in one, nor would I be working to get a game developer to make an RPG work for me unless I want to get into that kind of a game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Jeremy Hartley jeremyhart...@comcast.net To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 1:14 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hello All, I have been a member of this list since 2000 or 2001, whenever this list in all of the many forms was begun. I have also been a business owner, a professional musician, and now work as a computer trainer for blind and sighted individuals. As you may guess, since I am on this list, I happen to be totally blind, and have been so for my entire life of 36 years. Like it or not, we as blind and visually impaired individuals, exist in a sighted world. Choke it down. Get used to it, and get over it, and get with it. So, what does this all mean for any of us blind gamers? Plenty! Whether we like it or not, we are viewed differently by the sighted world. Differently? What does that mean. Well, to me, I have seen sighted gamers say things like, well, they can play text games. Or, well, why do the blind even need to play games like us anyway. Ok, that really stings to read such comments, but it is due to an ignorance of most of this sighted world. Yes, I said ignorance. Not stupidity! Too often, people mix up ignorance and stupidity, and call it at that. So, why should we care? I mean, we have our games written by Jim Kitchen, draconis, and other devs who are either visually impaired or realize we are out there, hungry to play games. Taken nothing away from those people, why shouldn't we as people, not blind, not visually impaired people, just people, be taken seriously? Well, we are in some ways, but not in other ways. I have found that in order to be taken seriously by the sighted world, we need to show that we know what we are talking about, enough to capture their interest. Not everyone can get the point across when it comes to interests and what blind and visually impaired people are capable of accomplishing. After all, we all have our interests, pleasures and dislikes. So, what can we do? The answer is simple, if one takes the time to put things into perspective. We all want a lot of the same things, but we go about accomplishing them in the wrong way a lot of times. What it really comes down to, at least for me, is that we really need to step up and give any sighted game dev a picture of what we are asking for. If a map is not read by voiceover on the Iphone, why is that? Have we explored the window with our voiceover cursor? If so, then what can we say to the dev to make sense of our needs. Does text need to be placed on the map? If so, what text, and would it be beneficial to have map coordinates mentioned? Would that be enough? Would it
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi all, I'm Lorenzo Bellincampi, founder of Shard Workshop, an audiogame development project. Maybe someone of you already knows me. This is an interesting topic Jeremy, and I wanted to add the point of view of a developer. I agree with a lot of what you said, especially the part in which you say that you have seen sighted gamers saying well, they can play text games. We, at Shard Workshop, strongly believe that being blind is much less contraining then what a lot of people think, when it comes a videogaming. I have a strong background as videogamer and I know that the biggest part of the emotions in gaming come from the audio, music and sound effects, so I believe that audiogames could be a lot better than what are now (aside from few examples of good games.) To this end you can read more here http://www.shardworkshop.com/the-project . As a developer for the blind community I have one big problem: finding all of you. It seems (and is confirmed by a few of you) that the word-of-mouth is the absolutely dominant way to learn news, in the blind community. People really prefer to learn things from unofficial sources like perfectly unknown people rather than going straight to the official source, where you can have your info sooner and better. In this way it is hard to spread news and things, and I believe that a lot of times, developers find themselves with very few sold copies just because a lot of people didn't know about the game. I also agre with Charles with the constructive criticism. The Shard Workshop project is very young, but I want it to be future job, so I'm ready to put everything on it and so I'll be clearly ready to learn from you all. I have a lot of ideas for a lot of things (not only the final products), but I'm sure that I can get better with your help. I mean.. it's good for both sides: you'll get better games and I'll get Shard Workshop to live :D In conclusion, if you guys and gals didn't know about Shard Workshop, than check our website @ http://www.shardworkshop.com, it may be what you were looking for. As for the spreading issue, we have an official forum too, and we would be very happy to have you all on those boards discussing audiogames! It should surely make our life simpler when it'll come to learn, offer support, and just discuss with you (that, in our principles, it absolutely mandatory). 2011/12/17 Jeremy Hartley jeremyhart...@comcast.net Hello All, I have been a member of this list since 2000 or 2001, whenever this list in all of the many forms was begun. I have also been a business owner, a professional musician, and now work as a computer trainer for blind and sighted individuals. As you may guess, since I am on this list, I happen to be totally blind, and have been so for my entire life of 36 years. Like it or not, we as blind and visually impaired individuals, exist in a sighted world. Choke it down. Get used to it, and get over it, and get with it. So, what does this all mean for any of us blind gamers? Plenty! Whether we like it or not, we are viewed differently by the sighted world. Differently? What does that mean. Well, to me, I have seen sighted gamers say things like, well, they can play text games. Or, well, why do the blind even need to play games like us anyway. Ok, that really stings to read such comments, but it is due to an ignorance of most of this sighted world. Yes, I said ignorance. Not stupidity! Too often, people mix up ignorance and stupidity, and call it at that. So, why should we care? I mean, we have our games written by Jim Kitchen, draconis, and other devs who are either visually impaired or realize we are out there, hungry to play games. Taken nothing away from those people, why shouldn't we as people, not blind, not visually impaired people, just people, be taken seriously? Well, we are in some ways, but not in other ways. I have found that in order to be taken seriously by the sighted world, we need to show that we know what we are talking about, enough to capture their interest. Not everyone can get the point across when it comes to interests and what blind and visually impaired people are capable of accomplishing. After all, we all have our interests, pleasures and dislikes. So, what can we do? The answer is simple, if one takes the time to put things into perspective. We all want a lot of the same things, but we go about accomplishing them in the wrong way a lot of times. What it really comes down to, at least for me, is that we really need to step up and give any sighted game dev a picture of what we are asking for. If a map is not read by voiceover on the Iphone, why is that? Have we explored the window with our voiceover cursor? If so, then what can we say to the dev to make sense of our needs. Does text need to be placed on the map? If so, what text, and would it be beneficial to have map coordinates mentioned? Would that be enough? Would it require a whole
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Michael, in communicating with a developer you are engaging in a professional communication. There are standards for that sort of communication. It's not a question of someone being better, it's a basic question of courtesy; show the person you are communicating with that you care enough to be clear and correct in your communication. Otherwise, why should anyone take you seriously? If you were writing a cover letter for a job application in the way you write communications I have seen, I'd throw your resume away unread. This is the same level of formality, at least until you have established a relationship with the developer that permits less formal communication. It's just professional courtesy. Christopher Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of michael barnes Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 11:58 PM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hello, Joseph. I get that all the time aswell. If someone see that someone had a issue with something then they should help that person and instead of hitting them over the head. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I'll second everything Alison says, as a former adaptive technology teacher, which often spilled over into advocate, counselor and role model, the effectiveness of your communication is directly related to the care with which you prepare it and the appropriateness of the form for its audience. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Allison Mervis Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:41 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. I can only judge based on what I've read, as do most people. In case you haven't seen my other messages, I provided suggestions on how he might improve the content and overall tone of his messages. As a rehab counselor with experience in the blindness field, I feel pretty confident in stating that I know a thing or two about affective self advocacy strategies. It's my personal and professional goal to help empower others to improve their skills by imparting those strategies. If I can be of further assistance in any way, you, Michael, or any list member can feel free to please contact me off list. This thread has strayed too far off topic as it is. In this internet based world, blind and sighted people alike are judged based on how they present themselves in writing, and how they depict their interactions with other people. This is a harsh reality that we must all face. Allison 16/2011 9:07 PM, Joseph Weaver wrote: If you want to help him show him what to do, and you can't judge competency because you don't know hi like I do. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Allison Mervisalliso...@gmail.com wrote: For your information, I do not feel that I am better than any other person on this list. However, I have significant experience as a competent blind adult and as an advocate for other blind people. I am simply trying to help Michael improve his skills both as a self advocate, and most especially, as an advocate for the blind community at large. Sighted developers look at Michael's communications and most likely judge blind people as a whole based on how he presents us and himself. I refuse to be painted with such a broad brush, and will not remain silent on this issue. Have a wonderful evening. Allison On 12/16/2011 8:54 PM, Joseph Weaver wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Allison Mervisalliso...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi I agree with this as well. I will go one step further and admit that my spelling is not grate either. thank goodness for spell check. and I also agree that I to have shot off messages before with out spell checking them first. so I can sertenley understand where a sighted person would come off with the wrong idea about blind people if they are reading a message full of spelling mistakes. well these are my thoughts. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? I agree. I'll be the first to admit I've probably more than occasionally shot off such messages but I like to think I generally at least try to proofread beforehand because I'd much rather be understood than do the convenient thing and have someone go what? because my message wasn't understood. It's why, as I said in another topic, I absolutely refuse to use internet shorthand even while texting. And as a contributor to the Game FAQs web site it always set my teeth on edge when I'd get an Email that said something like Plz help me w Lufia. i cant kill the boss. Thx 4 your time. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Here is an example about on how to use paragraphs. My name is Mister King. I threw a ball at a big, bad robot. As you can see from the above text, the name and the robot thing are two different subjects. - Original Message - From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Everyone, Thomas is totally correct below; as a sighted person, my first impression several years ago of this list was not good, and it was directly related to grammar, punctuation, and spelling problems in postings. I understand that readers don't always read out certain types of mistakes and that there's going to be different strengths and weaknesses in the writing styles of the blind, but I'm still sometimes shocked by the lack of proofreading. The fact of the matter is that how you write matters almost as much as what you write, and that sighted people judge messages based on the overall 'look' of a message in addition to the content. Correct grammar, spelling, capitalization, and punctuation are a critical part of that look, and can make or break your message. It may take all of two seconds for a sighted person to scan your message, decide there are too many problems, and delete it - without ever even realizing that you're blind or intelligent. Never forget that. Another polite thing to do for the sighted is breaks between paragraphs as Thomas has done below. This is pretty easy - just start a new paragraph after two to four sentences. It's important for sighted people because we have to manually scan the text with our eyes to read it; there's no reader to keep track of where we're at in the message. If a block is too big without breaks, it becomes easy to lose your place, and most of the time I'll just skip the rest of the block and go on to the next one rather than try to figure out where I got confused. Just FYI, from a sighted developer. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __
Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2
Hi, I use Vista and, yes the kitchensinc games work good. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:52 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2 Hi. Can you play other games like those from jim kitchen? If you can, I'd suggest uninstalling and reinstalling pipe2. You did not say what operating system you are running. Some have issues off the bat with running vb6 applications like pipe2, but installing a gma game or jim kitchens winkit might solve the problem. What firewall are you using? I know some block games from doing some things, such as accessing some files. On 12/17/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: hi kurt. Hmm, turning on your firewall shouldn't have done anything, I only use the windows one so can't comment about others maybe something is blocked and needs a reconfig. Windows updates should not cause the issue, though I keep most libs here rather updated so maybe thats it. did antispy remove something, check it. Do you have the latest pipe2 patch or even the latest pipe2 since i know loads of stuff was changed last year and at the beginning of this one but I forget what was changed. I just remember getting a shoot load of files from bsc. At 12:41 p.m. 16/12/2011 -0600, you wrote: Hi all, up until yesterday I didn't have a problem playing Pipe 2. But ever since I did windows updates, turned on my firewall and, ran anti spyware, which BTW I don't know If that has anything to do with the following error. I'm getting some error saying, Run time error, file 53 not found. Then there's an okay button. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
I have a couple of thoughts to add to this otherwise excellent post. First of all, if anyone is feeling that all this is intensely unfair, sighted folk use these same judgment metrics with one another. As someone who has taught both blind and sighted people how to write resumes and cover letters, I cannot stress enough to anyone doing this that the appearance of these documents is as important, perhaps more so, than the content. For an HR person glancing through a batch of 50 resumes, anything that allows him/her to reject a resume out of hand is a Godsend, so if it's sloppily put together, into the circular file it goes unread and the HR person gets to save a few minutes verifying references or scheduling an interview. Is that fair? Yes it is. The care that one takes in putting together a document of this sort, or indeed any business communication reflects the care with which one structures the content. The one acts as a proxy for the other in a surprisingly tight relationship. I can bet that if a message here or a document is carelessly put together, then it's almost certainly not worth my finite time to read, no matter the subject. And that's true for sighted people and blind. Here on the list, we have a unique situation. This isn't quite a business forum, though it partakes of some of the character of such a beast. It isn't a personal chat place, though we do that too. So it's some weird, hybrid beastie that has a culture of its own. That being said, clarity in communication is still important, particularly as this appears to be a major hub for people to find out about adaptive gaming, including sighted developers. That being so, it would profit us all to write clearly and correctly to the best of our abilities, and where those abilities are lacking, to invest time and effort to improve them. The consequences of failing to do so here are relatively light, you will get ignored, and possibly mocked. The consequences of doing so out in the world can make the difference between succeeding in getting a job, making a good impression on a potential sweetie, or being an effective advocate for accessibility in software or devices that you need or want to use. I would suggest that the proofreading requirement be put back in the guidelines, and let those who are offended by it go elsewhere. Goodness knows there are plenty of places on the Internets where they will be welcome. Christopher Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
As is being found out through this thread, it isn't only the sighted people who notice, and probably judge us, on our ability to accurately communicate through Emails. Blind people cannot decipher a lot of messages that were written by screen reader users because they weren't punctuated or correctly spelled. A screen reader, JAWS for example, will put pauses and inflection into messages as indicated by how they were written.. A lack of punctuation indicates one sentence that runs on, and on, and on! The screen reader pronounces it how it sees it. Funy isn't funny, and pupy isn't puppy. If you listen to your message before you send it, you should hear this mistakes, and you should go back over your message and correct them. Nobody will even know you made the mistakes, but if you leave them in, people will notice. And, when someone constructively criticizes you by showing that puzle should be puzzle, for example, it's not being picky. It's trying to be helpful. On the other side of the coin, screen readers can be strange at times. Videogame is correct, even though it should be pronounced video game, so, at times, it does pay to pay attention when reading, keeping in mind that screen readers are not perfect. When it comes to proofreading, those of us fortunate enough to have a refreshable braille display can usually do a better job at it, because braille is the best and most immediate and accurate method. It can be done with speech, but just takes a bit more time and effort, but it still doesn't take all that much. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Mich mi...@eastlink.ca To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi I agree with this as well. I will go one step further and admit that my spelling is not grate either. thank goodness for spell check. and I also agree that I to have shot off messages before with out spell checking them first. so I can sertenley understand where a sighted person would come off with the wrong idea about blind people if they are reading a message full of spelling mistakes. well these are my thoughts. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? I agree. I'll be the first to admit I've probably more than occasionally shot off such messages but I like to think I generally at least try to proofread beforehand because I'd much rather be understood than do the convenient thing and have someone go what? because my message wasn't understood. It's why, as I said in another topic, I absolutely refuse to use internet shorthand even while texting. And as a contributor to the Game FAQs web site it always set my teeth on edge when I'd get an Email that said something like Plz help me w Lufia. i cant kill the boss. Thx 4 your time. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a
Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2
Hi Sean, I went to the folder and went to properties. It says there's 18 files in their. I guess anti spyware didn't remove anything. I'm not sure. I usually don't pay attention to the number of files in a game. Also, it says the one I have came out October 13th 2009. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2 hi kurt. Hmm, turning on your firewall shouldn't have done anything, I only use the windows one so can't comment about others maybe something is blocked and needs a reconfig. Windows updates should not cause the issue, though I keep most libs here rather updated so maybe thats it. did antispy remove something, check it. Do you have the latest pipe2 patch or even the latest pipe2 since i know loads of stuff was changed last year and at the beginning of this one but I forget what was changed. I just remember getting a shoot load of files from bsc. At 12:41 p.m. 16/12/2011 -0600, you wrote: Hi all, up until yesterday I didn't have a problem playing Pipe 2. But ever since I did windows updates, turned on my firewall and, ran anti spyware, which BTW I don't know If that has anything to do with the following error. I'm getting some error saying, Run time error, file 53 not found. Then there's an okay button. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hello Jeremy and all, Jeremy I agree with everything you said. I'm not a dev myself, though I have ideas what I lack is time. I do feel that the points you raised about being taken seriously are accurate and very valid. To many times I've seen blind individuals, even coworkers badger someone like as you say a child, and the reaction I get is to be treated like that child, even though I was not involved and am separate, as a community we are judged by the sighted. It's the case of the bad apple, maybe not the best analogy but in this case I feel that one bad impression hurts us all. Here's something that happened to me that I feel might illustrate the point of public impressions. A group of blind individuals about 20, including myself went out to dinner at a pizza place. This place you had to go up to the counter, place your order, which was across an open room you couldn't miss it, then get it and eat. Tables were on one side counter on the other. We all sat down at various tables and started eating. There were sighted in the place and they looked on us with horror and revolusion because many in the group were loud, throwing things, and in general eating like slobs. The separate group about six of us, were separated from the first group by two tables and were retrieving and eating our orders properly. Did it matter? No, It did not. We were all viewed under the same microscope. Thomas made a point about educating the sighted community a little at a time. That's hard, a daily task and something that we all do when we do something as simple as go up independently to a store teller and independently complete a transaction. I agree also with all that's been said and it applies to not only games but to other products as well. Even if something wasn't specifically designed for the blind which means it's marked at a commercial price, but it happens to work for the blind for myself I heap praise on it's makers, and explain that they have done a great service in producing their product. And maybe that developer will go on and make another product, that works just because of constructive positive feedback. Perception is everything. I hope that this has given some food for thought. Dave. On 12/17/11, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: As is being found out through this thread, it isn't only the sighted people who notice, and probably judge us, on our ability to accurately communicate through Emails. Blind people cannot decipher a lot of messages that were written by screen reader users because they weren't punctuated or correctly spelled. A screen reader, JAWS for example, will put pauses and inflection into messages as indicated by how they were written.. A lack of punctuation indicates one sentence that runs on, and on, and on! The screen reader pronounces it how it sees it. Funy isn't funny, and pupy isn't puppy. If you listen to your message before you send it, you should hear this mistakes, and you should go back over your message and correct them. Nobody will even know you made the mistakes, but if you leave them in, people will notice. And, when someone constructively criticizes you by showing that puzle should be puzzle, for example, it's not being picky. It's trying to be helpful. On the other side of the coin, screen readers can be strange at times. Videogame is correct, even though it should be pronounced video game, so, at times, it does pay to pay attention when reading, keeping in mind that screen readers are not perfect. When it comes to proofreading, those of us fortunate enough to have a refreshable braille display can usually do a better job at it, because braille is the best and most immediate and accurate method. It can be done with speech, but just takes a bit more time and effort, but it still doesn't take all that much. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Mich mi...@eastlink.ca To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi I agree with this as well. I will go one step further and admit that my spelling is not grate either. thank goodness for spell check. and I also agree that I to have shot off messages before with out spell checking them first. so I can sertenley understand where a sighted person would come off with the wrong idea about blind people if they are reading a message full of spelling mistakes. well these are my thoughts. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? I agree. I'll be the first to admit I've probably more than occasionally shot off such messages but I like to think I generally at least try to proofread beforehand
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hello Jeremy and all. This is an excellent post and one that I hope everyone on here reads through at least once. It is true that just like any other group there are all kinds of blind people and we are spread across every imaginable age level, education level, amount of experience/social skills just about any criteria you can think of. It is important to remember though that many sighted individuals, assuming they think about us at all which most probably do not unless they happen to see one of us on the street, probably do not know this. So whether we like it or not and trust me there are times that I truly get tired of this, we have to make an extra effort to make an individual impression when and where we can. So what can each of us do to improve things? Writing has been mentioned here already so I will not beat a dead horse any longer. We all, myself included, need to always remember to speak and act as intelligently as we can in public or professional forums including situations such as attempting to work with a software developer or other professional. I could go on with more examples, however having read over this somewhat long winded message I sense that we are getting off topic here and into things that perhaps belong on another list. I'd just like to end by commending the members of this list, everyone has maintained a pretty good level of maturity throughout this discussion. Although some of the observations have been blunt and to the point and I can see how people might take some of them personally I for one really feel that we have had a good discussion here without some of the mean spiritedness that has sometimes gone on on here in the past. Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it and game on. Tom On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:14 PM, Jeremy Hartley wrote: Hello All, I have been a member of this list since 2000 or 2001, whenever this list in all of the many forms was begun. I have also been a business owner, a professional musician, and now work as a computer trainer for blind and sighted individuals. As you may guess, since I am on this list, I happen to be totally blind, and have been so for my entire life of 36 years. Like it or not, we as blind and visually impaired individuals, exist in a sighted world. Choke it down. Get used to it, and get over it, and get with it. So, what does this all mean for any of us blind gamers? Plenty! Whether we like it or not, we are viewed differently by the sighted world. Differently? What does that mean. Well, to me, I have seen sighted gamers say things like, well, they can play text games. Or, well, why do the blind even need to play games like us anyway. Ok, that really stings to read such comments, but it is due to an ignorance of most of this sighted world. Yes, I said ignorance. Not stupidity! Too often, people mix up ignorance and stupidity, and call it at that. So, why should we care? I mean, we have our games written by Jim Kitchen, draconis, and other devs who are either visually impaired or realize we are out there, hungry to play games. Taken nothing away from those people, why shouldn't we as people, not blind, not visually impaired people, just people, be taken seriously? Well, we are in some ways, but not in other ways. I have found that in order to be taken seriously by the sighted world, we need to show that we know what we are talking about, enough to capture their interest. Not everyone can get the point across when it comes to interests and what blind and visually impaired people are capable of accomplishing. After all, we all have our interests, pleasures and dislikes. So, what can we do? The answer is simple, if one takes the time to put things into perspective. We all want a lot of the same things, but we go about accomplishing them in the wrong way a lot of times. What it really comes down to, at least for me, is that we really need to step up and give any sighted game dev a picture of what we are asking for. If a map is not read by voiceover on the Iphone, why is that? Have we explored the window with our voiceover cursor? If so, then what can we say to the dev to make sense of our needs. Does text need to be placed on the map? If so, what text, and would it be beneficial to have map coordinates mentioned? Would that be enough? Would it require a whole rewrite of the app to make things right, or would it be OK to have a few additions made to the program? Guess what. For each app/program/game/whatever, it differs, depending on the program in question. You may think we can't make a difference, but I would like to tell you from personal experience, sometimes just a nudge makes a difference. But, what kind of nudge? Sadly, I have to say that when it comes to blind folks, and yes, because I am one, I am a bit partial to blind folks, but blind folks must be one step ahead. So, what do I mean? well, I mean
Re: [Audyssey] 2 days to go!
Don't know about that. Yes here in the United States tomorrow is only the 18th. But at 5:00 PM our time it becomes the 19th in Rome. SMILES. Just might get it before night fall tomorrow. You never know. I myself am looking forward to stress testing the new sim out for myself. Let the best blind pilot get in the air first. SMILES. Here's wishing all a very early Merry Christmas and a happy New Year full of new hand to ear -Original Message- From: william lomas Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:33 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] 2 days to go! hi 2 days then we get zero sight. going spend first few weeks seing what people really think of the game first. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. Ron and current Leader Dog boz who states that a service dog beats a cane hands down any day of the week. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi well if that had been added to the guide lines i would not have been angry there is an email simming group i use to be on and i was kicked off for my in proper grammer i was younger then so did not care now i do. a lot of the time my bad righting is because i don't know how to spell a word and i've ither spellt it so close to the word the spell check does not pick it up or way out so the spell check can't understand what i mean. if i don't know how to spell a word and the spell check does not pick up on it i now keep righting the word out untill i get a word that sounds like it or if some one is around i ask them for the spelling. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hello Mr. Ward, I absolutely disagree with the idea that you have told us about the proofreading guideline. We should implement the idea, because if we do not implement the said idea you are talking about, more messages with poor grammar, punctuation and spelling may be sent fourth to people and this mailing list. I, myself, may not be perfect in my writing, but my writing is extremely satisfactory these days. My point is, even if people find the guideline highly insulting or highly agitating, the guideline should still be implemented into the guidelines for the audyssey list. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi Ian. Punctuation is as important as good grammar and spelling. I found your message hard to follow. As a rule of thumb I skip messages if someone did not bother with at least getting most of the punctuation and spelling right. My reasoning which is wrong in many cases I'm sure, follows that if you did not bother to use good language, chances are you did not think through what you are writing about. It is different for those who use English as a second or third language, but it is also easy to differentiate between sloppy writers and non English writers. I should also probably add that English is my second language and this is why I take extra care when composing a message. On 12/17/11, Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi well if that had been added to the guide lines i would not have been angry there is an email simming group i use to be on and i was kicked off for my in proper grammer i was younger then so did not care now i do. a lot of the time my bad righting is because i don't know how to spell a word and i've ither spellt it so close to the word the spell check does not pick it up or way out so the spell check can't understand what i mean. if i don't know how to spell a word and the spell check does not pick up on it i now keep righting the word out untill i get a word that sounds like it or if some one is around i ask them for the spelling. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
hmm. Well... Um. What are you trying to prove here? On 12/17/11, Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ian. Punctuation is as important as good grammar and spelling. I found your message hard to follow. As a rule of thumb I skip messages if someone did not bother with at least getting most of the punctuation and spelling right. My reasoning which is wrong in many cases I'm sure, follows that if you did not bother to use good language, chances are you did not think through what you are writing about. It is different for those who use English as a second or third language, but it is also easy to differentiate between sloppy writers and non English writers. I should also probably add that English is my second language and this is why I take extra care when composing a message. On 12/17/11, Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi well if that had been added to the guide lines i would not have been angry there is an email simming group i use to be on and i was kicked off for my in proper grammer i was younger then so did not care now i do. a lot of the time my bad righting is because i don't know how to spell a word and i've ither spellt it so close to the word the spell check does not pick it up or way out so the spell check can't understand what i mean. if i don't know how to spell a word and the spell check does not pick up on it i now keep righting the word out untill i get a word that sounds like it or if some one is around i ask them for the spelling. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Sorry, my reply was to the last message from shiny protector Hello Mr. Ward, I absolutely disagree with  the idea that you have told us about the proofreading guideline. We should implement the idea, because if we do not implement the said idea you are talking about, more messages with poor grammar, punctuation and spelling may be sent fourth to people and this mailing list. I, myself, may not be perfect in my writing, but my writing is extremely satisfactory these days. My point is, even if people find the guideline highly insulting or  highly agitating, the guideline should still be implemented into the guidelines for the audyssey list. On 12/17/11, Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com wrote: hmm. Well... Um. What are you trying to prove here? On 12/17/11, Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ian. Punctuation is as important as good grammar and spelling. I found your message hard to follow. As a rule of thumb I skip messages if someone did not bother with at least getting most of the punctuation and spelling right. My reasoning which is wrong in many cases I'm sure, follows that if you did not bother to use good language, chances are you did not think through what you are writing about. It is different for those who use English as a second or third language, but it is also easy to differentiate between sloppy writers and non English writers. I should also probably add that English is my second language and this is why I take extra care when composing a message. On 12/17/11, Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi well if that had been added to the guide lines i would not have been angry there is an email simming group i use to be on and i was kicked off for my in proper grammer i was younger then so did not care now i do. a lot of the time my bad righting is because i don't know how to spell a word and i've ither spellt it so close to the word the spell check does not pick it up or way out so the spell check can't understand what i mean. if i don't know how to spell a word and the spell check does not pick up on it i now keep righting the word out untill i get a word that sounds like it or if some one is around i ask them for the spelling. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] News about Rock Vibe
An article about a kickstart for accessible Rock Band: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-717896?hpt=hp_bn2 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children
Hi Kelly, I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I will certainly try and have a look. Regards, Ben. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Sapergia Sent: 17 December 2011 14:50 To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Accessible Online Games for Children Hi, I received a message from a friend asking if there are any accessible games for children that can be played online. She has a 4-year-old son who's interested in playing games on the computer. Any suggestions? Thanks. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia Show Host and Production Director The Global Voice Internet Radio www.theglobalvoice.info Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net Business Website: www.kjsproductions.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1890 / Virus Database: 2108/4686 - Release Date: 12/17/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1890 / Virus Database: 2108/4686 - Release Date: 12/17/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
What I am trying to prove here is that the proofreading guideline should be included in the audyssey list guidelines. Sorry if my last message was not clear as I had hoped, I will try to be more clear nexttime I write a message like this. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Sorry, my reply was to the last message from shiny protector Hello Mr. Ward, I absolutely disagree with the idea that you have told us about the proofreading guideline. We should implement the idea, because if we do not implement the said idea you are talking about, more messages with poor grammar, punctuation and spelling may be sent fourth to people and this mailing list. I, myself, may not be perfect in my writing, but my writing is extremely satisfactory these days. My point is, even if people find the guideline highly insulting or highly agitating, the guideline should still be implemented into the guidelines for the audyssey list. On 12/17/11, Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com wrote: hmm. Well... Um. What are you trying to prove here? On 12/17/11, Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ian. Punctuation is as important as good grammar and spelling. I found your message hard to follow. As a rule of thumb I skip messages if someone did not bother with at least getting most of the punctuation and spelling right. My reasoning which is wrong in many cases I'm sure, follows that if you did not bother to use good language, chances are you did not think through what you are writing about. It is different for those who use English as a second or third language, but it is also easy to differentiate between sloppy writers and non English writers. I should also probably add that English is my second language and this is why I take extra care when composing a message. On 12/17/11, Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi well if that had been added to the guide lines i would not have been angry there is an email simming group i use to be on and i was kicked off for my in proper grammer i was younger then so did not care now i do. a lot of the time my bad righting is because i don't know how to spell a word and i've ither spellt it so close to the word the spell check does not pick it up or way out so the spell check can't understand what i mean. if i don't know how to spell a word and the spell check does not pick up on it i now keep righting the word out untill i get a word that sounds like it or if some one is around i ask them for the spelling. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] News about Rock Vibe
Wow this sounds awesome! - Original Message - From: Che blindadrenal...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:41 AM Subject: [Audyssey] News about Rock Vibe An article about a kickstart for accessible Rock Band: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-717896?hpt=hp_bn2 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
I fully agree, Thomas. Bad spelling and punctuation is easily recognizable and distinguishable between someone who speaks English and someone who isn't a native English speaker. I cringe as well every time I get emails from this list or others where people just don't check their spelling, or make grammar errors that look very, very silly. And another thing about outreach to developers, and to sighted people in general if you want to adapt something... I notice a lot of people have very basic ideas of what accessibility in a game, and those tend to be the ideas that they shoot off to the developers, and those ideas can be very vague. I myself know from experience that one simple solution suggested doesn't usually do much. One has to come up with a list of possible ideas, and then present them in a professional and mature way. If I hadn't learned it, I would never have got into the field of Martial arts... some teachers are dead set against visually impaired or disabled people, not because of dislike or discrimination... but because of ignorance. But once you suggest to them how this aspect or that aspect can be adapted to suit people like you, then they're willing to try. And when you excell, you impress them. It's the same scenario here. Good communications skills, presentable writing, and a good solid set of ideas will go further along in accessibility than writing a developer and saying, Hey, your game isn't accessible! I don't know if this'll work, but here's an idea that I just came up with 2 minutes ago which I don't have all the details for. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
I agree, Charles. I would fully support implementation of proofreading as part of the guidelines. Or at least spellchecking.. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Personally, I think that proofreading should be in the guidelines to improve clarity. Those who are offended by it are the ones that have the problem. It's not up to the reader to figure out what is being said, it's up to the author to accurately convey it. If English isn't your native language, that's understandable. If it is, use it correctly, or get software from the Net that helps, and use it. If you don't want to show yourself as a person who wants to be taken seriously about your gaming experience, go elsewhere. Sounds harsh and blunt, but it's realistic. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
I love this. What you've said is a very valid and good point. I think for me as a beginner in learning how game developing works, I've always just been used to the playing games side, and I don't know much of the computer developing jargon for the game devs. One of my biggest challenges is learning how to explain to a game dev why I can't play their game, or use their iPhone app, and explaining how they can change things to make it more accessible. Often times I find that game/app developers are willing to lend me an ear and learn how to make things accessible, but I don't know how to best explain to them the steps they need to take in gaming terms. I hope that as I continue to learn how all the gaming stuff works and the game/app terminology, that I will be better at this. Laurel and Stockard On 12/17/11, Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, Charles. I would fully support implementation of proofreading as part of the guidelines. Or at least spellchecking.. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Personally, I think that proofreading should be in the guidelines to improve clarity. Those who are offended by it are the ones that have the problem. It's not up to the reader to figure out what is being said, it's up to the author to accurately convey it. If English isn't your native language, that's understandable. If it is, use it correctly, or get software from the Net that helps, and use it. If you don't want to show yourself as a person who wants to be taken seriously about your gaming experience, go elsewhere. Sounds harsh and blunt, but it's realistic. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi Laurel. Well, one thing this list can do is to provide feedback on how to go about this. If you can explain the problem you're having to us, we may be able to assist in coming up with suggestions and a way to explain them to developers. A number of us have some development experience either game specific or at least out in the world. We could help you hone your presentation for best results. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Laurel Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 3:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? I love this. What you've said is a very valid and good point. I think for me as a beginner in learning how game developing works, I've always just been used to the playing games side, and I don't know much of the computer developing jargon for the game devs. One of my biggest challenges is learning how to explain to a game dev why I can't play their game, or use their iPhone app, and explaining how they can change things to make it more accessible. Often times I find that game/app developers are willing to lend me an ear and learn how to make things accessible, but I don't know how to best explain to them the steps they need to take in gaming terms. I hope that as I continue to learn how all the gaming stuff works and the game/app terminology, that I will be better at this. Laurel and Stockard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2
aah, check blindsoftware, they may have done some work I forget. However this combo shouldn't bring up anything, did antispy find anything wrong in the last scan and did that have to do with pipe2 or one of its components. If not I don't know. At 10:37 a.m. 17/12/2011 -0600, you wrote: Hi Sean, I went to the folder and went to properties. It says there's 18 files in their. I guess anti spyware didn't remove anything. I'm not sure. I usually don't pay attention to the number of files in a game. Also, it says the one I have came out October 13th 2009. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2 hi kurt. Hmm, turning on your firewall shouldn't have done anything, I only use the windows one so can't comment about others maybe something is blocked and needs a reconfig. Windows updates should not cause the issue, though I keep most libs here rather updated so maybe thats it. did antispy remove something, check it. Do you have the latest pipe2 patch or even the latest pipe2 since i know loads of stuff was changed last year and at the beginning of this one but I forget what was changed. I just remember getting a shoot load of files from bsc. At 12:41 p.m. 16/12/2011 -0600, you wrote: Hi all, up until yesterday I didn't have a problem playing Pipe 2. But ever since I did windows updates, turned on my firewall and, ran anti spyware, which BTW I don't know If that has anything to do with the following error. I'm getting some error saying, Run time error, file 53 not found. Then there's an okay button. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
You take care when writing and it shows, especially seeing as it isn't your first language. You are to be commended for your effort. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Hi Ian. Punctuation is as important as good grammar and spelling. I found your message hard to follow. As a rule of thumb I skip messages if someone did not bother with at least getting most of the punctuation and spelling right. My reasoning which is wrong in many cases I'm sure, follows that if you did not bother to use good language, chances are you did not think through what you are writing about. It is different for those who use English as a second or third language, but it is also easy to differentiate between sloppy writers and non English writers. I should also probably add that English is my second language and this is why I take extra care when composing a message. On 12/17/11, Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi well if that had been added to the guide lines i would not have been angry there is an email simming group i use to be on and i was kicked off for my in proper grammer i was younger then so did not care now i do. a lot of the time my bad righting is because i don't know how to spell a word and i've ither spellt it so close to the word the spell check does not pick it up or way out so the spell check can't understand what i mean. if i don't know how to spell a word and the spell check does not pick up on it i now keep righting the word out untill i get a word that sounds like it or if some one is around i ask them for the spelling. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
He was pointing out your lack of punctuation. Scroll down and listen to the message you sent. Your screen reader does not pause during the reading because it doesn't know when to do so, because there isn't enough punctuation. Periods, commas, question marks, and so on, as opposed to periods commas question marks and so forth. Hear the difference in what I just wrote? It's because of the punctuation in the first part, and the lack of it in the second part. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? hmm. Well... Um. What are you trying to prove here? On 12/17/11, Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ian. Punctuation is as important as good grammar and spelling. I found your message hard to follow. As a rule of thumb I skip messages if someone did not bother with at least getting most of the punctuation and spelling right. My reasoning which is wrong in many cases I'm sure, follows that if you did not bother to use good language, chances are you did not think through what you are writing about. It is different for those who use English as a second or third language, but it is also easy to differentiate between sloppy writers and non English writers. I should also probably add that English is my second language and this is why I take extra care when composing a message. On 12/17/11, Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi well if that had been added to the guide lines i would not have been angry there is an email simming group i use to be on and i was kicked off for my in proper grammer i was younger then so did not care now i do. a lot of the time my bad righting is because i don't know how to spell a word and i've ither spellt it so close to the word the spell check does not pick it up or way out so the spell check can't understand what i mean. if i don't know how to spell a word and the spell check does not pick up on it i now keep righting the word out untill i get a word that sounds like it or if some one is around i ask them for the spelling. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Games for the mac.
Hey, I would like to know if there are any games for the mac that blind people can play. I have looked on pcsgames.net and that game list has not be helpful to me. If someone knows of any games please let me know. Thanks! -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Games for the mac.
Hi Michael, I assume you checked out my Mac games page, http://www.pcsgames.net/MacGame-co.htm I admit I have not updated it in two years. And looking at the list there doesn't seem to be many good accessible Mac games back then. Phil - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Games for the mac. Hey, I would like to know if there are any games for the mac that blind people can play. I have looked on pcsgames.net and that game list has not be helpful to me. If someone knows of any games please let me know. Thanks! -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4086 - Release Date: 12/17/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Games for the mac.
Hey, Phil. Yes I did take a look at your list. But sadly it wasn't any help. If you know of any resources on this please share. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2
I was dumb enough not to look after I did my scan a couple days ago. :) - Original Message - From: shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2 aah, check blindsoftware, they may have done some work I forget. However this combo shouldn't bring up anything, did antispy find anything wrong in the last scan and did that have to do with pipe2 or one of its components. If not I don't know. At 10:37 a.m. 17/12/2011 -0600, you wrote: Hi Sean, I went to the folder and went to properties. It says there's 18 files in their. I guess anti spyware didn't remove anything. I'm not sure. I usually don't pay attention to the number of files in a game. Also, it says the one I have came out October 13th 2009. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] problem with Pipe 2 hi kurt. Hmm, turning on your firewall shouldn't have done anything, I only use the windows one so can't comment about others maybe something is blocked and needs a reconfig. Windows updates should not cause the issue, though I keep most libs here rather updated so maybe thats it. did antispy remove something, check it. Do you have the latest pipe2 patch or even the latest pipe2 since i know loads of stuff was changed last year and at the beginning of this one but I forget what was changed. I just remember getting a shoot load of files from bsc. At 12:41 p.m. 16/12/2011 -0600, you wrote: Hi all, up until yesterday I didn't have a problem playing Pipe 2. But ever since I did windows updates, turned on my firewall and, ran anti spyware, which BTW I don't know If that has anything to do with the following error. I'm getting some error saying, Run time error, file 53 not found. Then there's an okay button. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi Thomas, I for one agree with adding the guideline about proofreading posts before sending them to the list, because good communication skills are important, especially for us when we're dealing with sighted people. I'll admit I never actually read a post of mine, but I'm also a very good speller and know how to punctuate things well, so grammar and spelling aren't as much of an issue for me. I say include the guideline though, and if someone doesn't like it, it's their loss. The guideline would only be used to help people, not as a criticism, in my opinion. Jessica At 08:49 AM 12/17/2011, you wrote: Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4086 - Release Date: 12/17/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Wait, he wrote an article? How on earth did I miss this? darn! Could someone point me to it? thanks! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Who wrote an article? In short, I can't see the original message Yohandy replied to. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:31 PM, Yohandy wrote: Wait, he wrote an article? How on earth did I miss this? darn! Could someone point me to it? thanks! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
You guys need to quit targeting michael and get off your high horses, it seems like you only discuss this issue after his posts, I don't have any trouble understanding them. Y'alls problem is that you love to complain to much, now of you don't understand maybe next time he should speak in first grade terms an really slow for you. (NWA) no winning aloud, if you don't like the grammar get over it. Ps. That word is misspelled. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 6:34 PM, MissWings misswi...@lorettotel.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I for one agree with adding the guideline about proofreading posts before sending them to the list, because good communication skills are important, especially for us when we're dealing with sighted people. I'll admit I never actually read a post of mine, but I'm also a very good speller and know how to punctuate things well, so grammar and spelling aren't as much of an issue for me. I say include the guideline though, and if someone doesn't like it, it's their loss. The guideline would only be used to help people, not as a criticism, in my opinion. Jessica At 08:49 AM 12/17/2011, you wrote: Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4086 - Release Date: 12/17/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Thanks! Joseph for saying that to everyone on the list. It's funny that everyone on here bashes me for my typing skills, but when I get on here and ask other IOS users to please contact developers with me about making their games accessible it seems to me that if their was a problem with the way I speek to developers then my programer wouldn't have work with me to create De Steno Games for the IOS platform. As a matter of fact we plan to work togather again. So what do you say about that. If people on here would help me to contact developers then I wouldn't have the atitude that I have right now. I do enjoy being on here so I may learn about games out there but I don't enjoy people being butt-holes about things. I am going to test a thought that I have to see if anyone on here will help with this game series on the IOS to get made accessible by helping me to contact the developer. The game series is a gamebook series and I know from what I have seen it can be made readable for voice over. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Just starting out on SoundRTS.
Hi guys, I have just started playing SoundRTS and am looking for strategies to get through it. Does anyone have any advice for beginners? Lindsay Cowell --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
That every developer is different. Just because one developer is willing to overlook that sort of thing does not mean another one will be. This isn't a criticism but a piece of advice. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Thanks! Joseph for saying that to everyone on the list. It's funny that everyone on here bashes me for my typing skills, but when I get on here and ask other IOS users to please contact developers with me about making their games accessible it seems to me that if their was a problem with the way I speek to developers then my programer wouldn't have work with me to create De Steno Games for the IOS platform. As a matter of fact we plan to work togather again. So what do you say about that. If people on here would help me to contact developers then I wouldn't have the atitude that I have right now. I do enjoy being on here so I may learn about games out there but I don't enjoy people being butt-holes about things. I am going to test a thought that I have to see if anyone on here will help with this game series on the IOS to get made accessible by helping me to contact the developer. The game series is a gamebook series and I know from what I have seen it can be made readable for voice over. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Joseph, this thread emerged from Michael's post concerning his interaction with a developer, from which many folk have drawn the idea that his careless construction of messages possibly contributed to the negative aspect of that interaction. It is entirely appropriate to comment specifically on that aspect of his post, since we all have an interest in having developers not already in the know about our community take us seriously. You have seen the comments of more than one sighted developer about how discouraging such things are initially. To their credit and our gain, they overcame that discouragement and have gone on to provide us with some games. By the way, for clarity, that should have read y'all's, the possessive, rather than a bastardized, non-standard plural that happens also to screw up screen readers. And your deliberate error is amusing, and telling. Don't like my commentary, then go elsewhere. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Weaver Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:21 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? You guys need to quit targeting michael and get off your high horses, it seems like you only discuss this issue after his posts, I don't have any trouble understanding them. Y'alls problem is that you love to complain to much, now of you don't understand maybe next time he should speak in first grade terms an really slow for you. (NWA) no winning aloud, if you don't like the grammar get over it. Ps. That word is misspelled. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 6:34 PM, MissWings misswi...@lorettotel.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I for one agree with adding the guideline about proofreading posts before sending them to the list, because good communication skills are important, especially for us when we're dealing with sighted people. I'll admit I never actually read a post of mine, but I'm also a very good speller and know how to punctuate things well, so grammar and spelling aren't as much of an issue for me. I say include the guideline though, and if someone doesn't like it, it's their loss. The guideline would only be used to help people, not as a criticism, in my opinion. Jessica At 08:49 AM 12/17/2011, you wrote: Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4086 - Release Date: 12/17/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hey, All. Here is a email that I am going to send to the developer of the IOS apps Gamebook Adventures. And since you have something to say about my messages I am asking please email the developer aswell so these text games will be made accessible. Here is the web address for the Gamebook Adventure. www.GamebookAdventures.com Now here is my email. Hello, To the developer of IOS apps Gamebook Adventures. I am a totally blind person that plays different kinds of games on the iPhone using the built in screen reader. The screen reader is called voice over, and what voice over does is, reads all text and buttons if labeled correctly. Apple inc has put together a webpage to educate developers of IOS apps that are not aware of accessibility for the blind. I would like to play your Gamebook series because I love text adventure games. Will you please add accessibility to your Gamebook games. Down below is the link to the webpage that Apple inc has put together to assist developers to make their apps accessible for the blind. Please give accessibility a try. If you have any questions feel free to contact me. Thank you for your time.. http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/iPhoneAccessibility/Introduction/Introduction.html -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
All that has been going on has been constructive, and that is the key, criticism. And have you noticed that you have not been the exclusive target? Examples of other listers' mistakes have been cited, and there have been a lot of messages that have been aimed at the entire list. That hardly makes you the target, nor does it make anyone on the list, as you say, butt holes, which there is no need for. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Thanks! Joseph for saying that to everyone on the list. It's funny that everyone on here bashes me for my typing skills, but when I get on here and ask other IOS users to please contact developers with me about making their games accessible it seems to me that if their was a problem with the way I speek to developers then my programer wouldn't have work with me to create De Steno Games for the IOS platform. As a matter of fact we plan to work togather again. So what do you say about that. If people on here would help me to contact developers then I wouldn't have the atitude that I have right now. I do enjoy being on here so I may learn about games out there but I don't enjoy people being butt-holes about things. I am going to test a thought that I have to see if anyone on here will help with this game series on the IOS to get made accessible by helping me to contact the developer. The game series is a gamebook series and I know from what I have seen it can be made readable for voice over. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
You failed my test and did exactly what I thought you would. I am a southerner so that word is pretty common. Now that your done judging me and my friend michael who he and I live in the same town since we were kids. I am going to use my freedom is speech to tell you, your correction to my message and possibly this one, that you are a pompous Jackass that needs to quit judging and stacking your own people. Your words don't hurt me, but if you try mine may hurt you. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 11:22 PM, Christopher Bartlett themusicalbre...@gmail.com wrote: Joseph, this thread emerged from Michael's post concerning his interaction with a developer, from which many folk have drawn the idea that his careless construction of messages possibly contributed to the negative aspect of that interaction. It is entirely appropriate to comment specifically on that aspect of his post, since we all have an interest in having developers not already in the know about our community take us seriously. You have seen the comments of more than one sighted developer about how discouraging such things are initially. To their credit and our gain, they overcame that discouragement and have gone on to provide us with some games. By the way, for clarity, that should have read y'all's, the possessive, rather than a bastardized, non-standard plural that happens also to screw up screen readers. And your deliberate error is amusing, and telling. Don't like my commentary, then go elsewhere. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Weaver Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:21 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? You guys need to quit targeting michael and get off your high horses, it seems like you only discuss this issue after his posts, I don't have any trouble understanding them. Y'alls problem is that you love to complain to much, now of you don't understand maybe next time he should speak in first grade terms an really slow for you. (NWA) no winning aloud, if you don't like the grammar get over it. Ps. That word is misspelled. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 6:34 PM, MissWings misswi...@lorettotel.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I for one agree with adding the guideline about proofreading posts before sending them to the list, because good communication skills are important, especially for us when we're dealing with sighted people. I'll admit I never actually read a post of mine, but I'm also a very good speller and know how to punctuate things well, so grammar and spelling aren't as much of an issue for me. I say include the guideline though, and if someone doesn't like it, it's their loss. The guideline would only be used to help people, not as a criticism, in my opinion. Jessica At 08:49 AM 12/17/2011, you wrote: Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt that the moderators were going too far. All I can draw from their reaction is they don't care about being taken seriously and want the rest of the sighted world to view us negatively, because that's exactly what will happen if they send a poorly written message to a person or company who has no experience with the blind. In short, good communication skills will go a long ways to bridging the gap between the blind and sighted communities. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi Chris, All good points. I'd like to add that I'm on a number of technology lists and forums, and I largely read and respond to e-mails based on reputation. By reputation I mean weather the person can write clearly, if there aren't a lot of grammar and spelling errors, and weather or not the e-mails use proper punctuation. Is that unfair? No. Even using a screen reader like Jaws, NVDA, or Window-Eyes things like spelling errors, grammatical errors, and lack of punctuation make it difficult to listen to a poorly written e-mail. Lack of punctuation means the screen reader won't pause properly between natural sentense breaks and it makes it difficult to listen to the message. Spelling and grammar errors will cause the screen reader to say things incorrectly forcing me to stop the speech and review the line word by word to get the context of the message. If I have to do that with x number of e-mails waiting for me to read I'm just going to throw out and skip anything that requires extra time and effort to read. So my point here is it isn't just a case of sighted people doing this, but there are blind people such as myself who quickly toss out anything that isn't immediately clear from the start as well. Cheers! On 12/17/11, Christopher Bartlett themusicalbre...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple of thoughts to add to this otherwise excellent post. First of all, if anyone is feeling that all this is intensely unfair, sighted folk use these same judgment metrics with one another. As someone who has taught both blind and sighted people how to write resumes and cover letters, I cannot stress enough to anyone doing this that the appearance of these documents is as important, perhaps more so, than the content. For an HR person glancing through a batch of 50 resumes, anything that allows him/her to reject a resume out of hand is a Godsend, so if it's sloppily put together, into the circular file it goes unread and the HR person gets to save a few minutes verifying references or scheduling an interview. Is that fair? Yes it is. The care that one takes in putting together a document of this sort, or indeed any business communication reflects the care with which one structures the content. The one acts as a proxy for the other in a surprisingly tight relationship. I can bet that if a message here or a document is carelessly put together, then it's almost certainly not worth my finite time to read, no matter the subject. And that's true for sighted people and blind. Here on the list, we have a unique situation. This isn't quite a business forum, though it partakes of some of the character of such a beast. It isn't a personal chat place, though we do that too. So it's some weird, hybrid beastie that has a culture of its own. That being said, clarity in communication is still important, particularly as this appears to be a major hub for people to find out about adaptive gaming, including sighted developers. That being so, it would profit us all to write clearly and correctly to the best of our abilities, and where those abilities are lacking, to invest time and effort to improve them. The consequences of failing to do so here are relatively light, you will get ignored, and possibly mocked. The consequences of doing so out in the world can make the difference between succeeding in getting a job, making a good impression on a potential sweetie, or being an effective advocate for accessibility in software or devices that you need or want to use. I would suggest that the proofreading requirement be put back in the guidelines, and let those who are offended by it go elsewhere. Goodness knows there are plenty of places on the Internets where they will be welcome. Christopher Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hello Joseph and all, Watch the name calling. If I see another post like this one you will be placed on moderated status. there are more constructive ways of getting your point across without resorting to name calling. Further more while you have the freedom of speech it does not extend to calling someone a pompous Jackass on this list. If you must show your immaturity by reducing the discussion to name calling and arguing take it off list. Thanks. On 12/17/11, Joseph Weaver jweaver1...@gmail.com wrote: You failed my test and did exactly what I thought you would. I am a southerner so that word is pretty common. Now that your done judging me and my friend michael who he and I live in the same town since we were kids. I am going to use my freedom is speech to tell you, your correction to my message and possibly this one, that you are a pompous Jackass that needs to quit judging and stacking your own people. Your words don't hurt me, but if you try mine may hurt you. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi Michael, That's definitely more like what we have been suggesting. :D On 12/17/11, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: Hey, All. Here is a email that I am going to send to the developer of the IOS apps Gamebook Adventures. And since you have something to say about my messages I am asking please email the developer aswell so these text games will be made accessible. Here is the web address for the Gamebook Adventure. www.GamebookAdventures.com Now here is my email. Hello, To the developer of IOS apps Gamebook Adventures. I am a totally blind person that plays different kinds of games on the iPhone using the built in screen reader. The screen reader is called voice over, and what voice over does is, reads all text and buttons if labeled correctly. Apple inc has put together a webpage to educate developers of IOS apps that are not aware of accessibility for the blind. I would like to play your Gamebook series because I love text adventure games. Will you please add accessibility to your Gamebook games. Down below is the link to the webpage that Apple inc has put together to assist developers to make their apps accessible for the blind. Please give accessibility a try. If you have any questions feel free to contact me. Thank you for your time.. http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/iPhoneAccessibility/Introduction/Introduction.html -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hey, Thomas. Thanks for your imput! I think we should put a end to this subject before it gets out of hand. I am done talking about this matter and I am ready to talk gaming. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Michael, Not everyone reacts the same way. Some people may be willing to overlook your communication skills, and others may not overlook it. All we are saying it is a good idea to get into the habit of preparing professional looking documents when contacting a developer or business with a request like this. The fact of the matter is regardless if someone overlooks a poorly written document or not how it is presented will give the person you are writing to a first impression of you, and it will positively or negatively impact your relationship based on how well that initial message is composed. They may still agree to help you, but are being too polite to comment upon your poor communication skills. For example, in your message below you misspelled programmer. One or two errors like that someone will likely overlook, but if there are several misspelled words like that the person reading your message isn't going to think you are very intelligent. Now, as a blind person in his mid 30's I prefer to be treated as an intelligent blind adult, and do everything I can to avoid stereotypes. If it means firing up a spell checker now and then to make sure my messages are spelled correctly its better than appearing like I am either too lazy to proofread my messages or lacking in basic grammar and spelling skills. Which is the point of this thread. When a blind person makes contact with an individual or company for the first time he or she becomes our voice and representative with that party. Since we all want to make a good impression its important that the first impression is a good one. If you send a poorly written message the sighted party may either see the blind party as extremely lazy or not very bright. Either way that's not the kind of first impression we want to make. On 12/17/11, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: Thanks! Joseph for saying that to everyone on the list. It's funny that everyone on here bashes me for my typing skills, but when I get on here and ask other IOS users to please contact developers with me about making their games accessible it seems to me that if their was a problem with the way I speek to developers then my programer wouldn't have work with me to create De Steno Games for the IOS platform. As a matter of fact we plan to work togather again. So what do you say about that. If people on here would help me to contact developers then I wouldn't have the atitude that I have right now. I do enjoy being on here so I may learn about games out there but I don't enjoy people being butt-holes about things. I am going to test a thought that I have to see if anyone on here will help with this game series on the IOS to get made accessible by helping me to contact the developer. The game series is a gamebook series and I know from what I have seen it can be made readable for voice over. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi Laurel, Fortunately, there are plenty of people on list who have those skills. I imagine if you ask there is likely someone who can help give you pointers, examples, and help educate you so you can improve your communication skills with a developer. Its like anything else in life. the more you do it the better you'll become. Plus one recommendation I have for people interested in this subject is to find a good community college or internet based college and take a few business communication classes. I can say from personal experience it really helps with day to day interactions and communications as those classes will help a person outline and prepare there thoughts in a constructive way that gets their thoughts across. The biggest problem with communication skills at large is most people just don't know how to organize their thoughts and how to present them to another party in a way that makes sense. Instead of taking notes, writing an outline, a lot of people just jump into an important e-mail feet first and the end result becomes rather haphazard and disorganized. Basically, what it boils down to is spend some time both planning and researching the contents of your business letter or e-mail before sending it. It all comes back to the write, read, edit, and reread principle. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hello Joseph, People here are only trying to help Michael and give him better advice here on this mailing list. I see know harsh comments directed at Michael here, and I think you should take the js comment back and apologise to the mailing list. I may not be a moderator of this list, but I know the js word is a foul word, so please refrain from using language like that on this mailing list. I am only trying to help you here. - Original Message - From: Joseph Weaver jweaver1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:47 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? You failed my test and did exactly what I thought you would. I am a southerner so that word is pretty common. Now that your done judging me and my friend michael who he and I live in the same town since we were kids. I am going to use my freedom is speech to tell you, your correction to my message and possibly this one, that you are a pompous Jackass that needs to quit judging and stacking your own people. Your words don't hurt me, but if you try mine may hurt you. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 11:22 PM, Christopher Bartlett themusicalbre...@gmail.com wrote: Joseph, this thread emerged from Michael's post concerning his interaction with a developer, from which many folk have drawn the idea that his careless construction of messages possibly contributed to the negative aspect of that interaction. It is entirely appropriate to comment specifically on that aspect of his post, since we all have an interest in having developers not already in the know about our community take us seriously. You have seen the comments of more than one sighted developer about how discouraging such things are initially. To their credit and our gain, they overcame that discouragement and have gone on to provide us with some games. By the way, for clarity, that should have read y'all's, the possessive, rather than a bastardized, non-standard plural that happens also to screw up screen readers. And your deliberate error is amusing, and telling. Don't like my commentary, then go elsewhere. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Weaver Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:21 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? You guys need to quit targeting michael and get off your high horses, it seems like you only discuss this issue after his posts, I don't have any trouble understanding them. Y'alls problem is that you love to complain to much, now of you don't understand maybe next time he should speak in first grade terms an really slow for you. (NWA) no winning aloud, if you don't like the grammar get over it. Ps. That word is misspelled. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 6:34 PM, MissWings misswi...@lorettotel.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I for one agree with adding the guideline about proofreading posts before sending them to the list, because good communication skills are important, especially for us when we're dealing with sighted people. I'll admit I never actually read a post of mine, but I'm also a very good speller and know how to punctuate things well, so grammar and spelling aren't as much of an issue for me. I say include the guideline though, and if someone doesn't like it, it's their loss. The guideline would only be used to help people, not as a criticism, in my opinion. Jessica At 08:49 AM 12/17/2011, you wrote: Hi Jeremy, Yes, you definitely raise some very good points in your message. As you pointed out the biggest problem in communicating with sighted developers and the public at large is ignorance on their part. Most sighted people have never met a blind person before, and even if they have there is no way of knowing what their experience was if any. Its our job to correct their impressions through by educating them a step at a time, and to do it in a way that makes us look like intelligent, competent, and mature individuals who have something worthwhile to say about their products and services. Its for that reason every time I see a poorly written message on Audyssey or some other access list I inwardly cringe. I can't tell you how many blind individuals just shoot off a message filled with poor grammar, lack of proper punctuation, and spelling errors. Like it or not if a sighted person reads those messages we will be judged one and all as not very intelligent, as lacking communication skills, etc. Bottom line, if we want the mainstream public's respect we have to work for it, and not forgo proper language and writing skills for convenience sake. Here at Audyssey we considered adding proofreading to the list guidelines to improve the quality and clarity of the posts. Unfortunately, there were some individuals that took serious offense to that, and felt
Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?
Hi, You are exactly right. a blind gamer can't just send a mainstream developer a vague or half-baked suggestion for adding accessibility when chances are they don't even know that accessible games exist let alone how to create one. I've gone through college level programming courses, and I can say from personal experience the issue of accessibility isn't even discussed at the educational level and its up to the student to find that information out on his/her own once they become employed. this leaves a huge gap in training and education dealing with any kind of accessibility related programming. The end result is simple ignorance of what needs to be done, and the only way to correct that is by giving specific and detailed examples when and where possible. For example, after I lost my sight my local school board enrolled me in a school in Canton Ohio equipped for disabled children. At first that was all well and good because I learned basic mobility skills, learned braille, and all the other life skills I needed to become independent. After I reached high school I wanted to return to Smithville, my home school, and the school board initially denied my request based on their belief they would have to hire a special teacher who knew braille, that I'd need a lot of expensive school books, someone to lead me from class to class, and a bunch of other stereotypes that were based on ignorance of the kinds of technologies that were available in the early 1990's. So what I did was write my own proposal which explained how a totally blind student could function in a mainstream school using Openbook for scanning and reading printed material, Jaws so I could use a computer to write my reports and other assignments, that my Braille N' Speak could print both braille and print documents, how a teacher could record my test on an audio tape, etc. By being very detailed and specific on how I could function in a normal high school with some adaptive technology or specialized software I proved to the Smithville school board I was able to put their fears to rest. I spent my Junior and Senior year in a standard mainstream school without a shred of specialized help and made a's and b's in all of my courses. The point I want to make here is that by being very detailed and specific I was able to go before a group of people who knew absolutely nothing about blindness and proved to them I could be successful in a completely mainstream school. When dealing with software developers and other businesses we need to equally have our act together and explain to them in detail how access can be accomplished. Unless we are willing to take the time to research and write such a proposal we are going to continue to get overlooked and ignored. Cheers! On 12/17/11, Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com wrote: I fully agree, Thomas. Bad spelling and punctuation is easily recognizable and distinguishable between someone who speaks English and someone who isn't a native English speaker. I cringe as well every time I get emails from this list or others where people just don't check their spelling, or make grammar errors that look very, very silly. And another thing about outreach to developers, and to sighted people in general if you want to adapt something... I notice a lot of people have very basic ideas of what accessibility in a game, and those tend to be the ideas that they shoot off to the developers, and those ideas can be very vague. I myself know from experience that one simple solution suggested doesn't usually do much. One has to come up with a list of possible ideas, and then present them in a professional and mature way. If I hadn't learned it, I would never have got into the field of Martial arts... some teachers are dead set against visually impaired or disabled people, not because of dislike or discrimination... but because of ignorance. But once you suggest to them how this aspect or that aspect can be adapted to suit people like you, then they're willing to try. And when you excell, you impress them. It's the same scenario here. Good communications skills, presentable writing, and a good solid set of ideas will go further along in accessibility than writing a developer and saying, Hey, your game isn't accessible! I don't know if this'll work, but here's an idea that I just came up with 2 minutes ago which I don't have all the details for. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] the first resident evil-- partial playthrough
So, with all these swamp time, I'm getting lots of old memories coming back- and most of them are about the resident evil series- how I wished and wished that I could play something like that, and eventually have my dream realized in Shades of Doom, and now, even mroe so, in Swamp. To me, this is where it all started- zombies, monsters, and lots of guns. Here's a clip from the re-released Resident Evil I- I still remember how me and my brothers got so freaked out when we watch the intro of the original- when the zombie dogs just ripped one of the team members apart lol. Give it a watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T-i6kdsYxY --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] the first resident evil again-this time the original
Almost the same clip- cept this one is from the very original version which was for the playstation 1. The voice acting was a tad mroe awful, but I actually prefer the sounds for the original rather than the new release- though the zombie dog in the intro sounds more like a dinosaur lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdrbLeTx-xM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the first resident evil-- partial playthrough
Oh the good old times! I remember those games... my favorite is still resident evil 4 on the ps2. That one was awesome and possibly the best RE game I've ever heard. It's considered by many to be the best one. I'll find a playthrough of it at some point. - Original Message - From: Johnny Tai johnnyti...@shaw.ca To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 11:08 PM Subject: [Audyssey] the first resident evil-- partial playthrough So, with all these swamp time, I'm getting lots of old memories coming back- and most of them are about the resident evil series- how I wished and wished that I could play something like that, and eventually have my dream realized in Shades of Doom, and now, even mroe so, in Swamp. To me, this is where it all started- zombies, monsters, and lots of guns. Here's a clip from the re-released Resident Evil I- I still remember how me and my brothers got so freaked out when we watch the intro of the original- when the zombie dogs just ripped one of the team members apart lol. Give it a watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T-i6kdsYxY --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
